mr chomsky for all his brilliance..is clueless...no planes...unbelieveable as it seems..but check out DIMITRI KHALEZOV 911 THE THIRD TRUTH...this is so amazing...as clever as we are..we aint that clever at all relying on our own intellectualism..we need something more...the spirit...
Сионисты, вы крупнейших лежал зла ублюдков на этой земле, мы собираемся разбить вас, мы собираемся смирить тебя и приведу вас на колени. Ваш зла худых путей будут выставлены всем за то, что они на самом деле и навсегда уничтожен.
Us government is behind it indirectly. Fucking around in the middle east since the 50s. Pissing off Muslims, bombing shit, killing people. I'd guess Americans would be pretty pissed if China was fucking around, bombing shit and killing civilians in the USA.
Ok so we (the good guys) can not keep secrets but the big bad wolf can?
What about outfit who really planned and organized the 911 attack?
They managed to keep it a secret.
Nobody on either side has stepped forward with a 'secret' capable of exposing who the real perpetrators were.
But if you add MOTIVE, ACCESS, who profited, who made out like a bandit, who came out on top after the 3 buildings came down on 911, you end up with the name Larry the Liar.
I think Chomsky is wrong in this. I admire him so much, but I think he discards the suspicious evidence that make a lot of people believe this consipracy theories, like the FACT that was Operation Northwoods. They wanted to blow up a plane with american citizens inside it making it look like it was a cuban attack, so the country would enrage and want to go to war. The US has already plotted actions like this, and everybody knows, but no one seems to think its important or its related to this.
Intelligence (aka 'specialized knowledge') is NOT Wisdom- Truth. Thousands of many years ago the world (the masses), including 'scholars' believed- by default, because "we were told by the 'bosses/lords'" - that the Earth was flat. However, upon common sense OBSERVATION and STUDY,....well, the rest is factual history. ☼
Well this is just one of the all too many cases on our books of Americanism. The only way that we can fight this terrible debilitating social disease, is by informing the general public of its consequences, by showing young people that it's just not worth it. So please give generously to this address: The League for fighting the United States of America, 55 Lincoln House, Basil Street, London, SW3.
The point is, the 'best laboratories' in America are not going to set up an experiment to establish weather 911 was an inside job - because they don't want the 'flack' Noam. Moreover, a proper independent investigation would have to involve teams from two other countries. But the caveat is - what serious institution would waste its precious time and resources on such a ridiculous proposition - you get the picture - us uppity niggers should just stop askin' all them pesky little questions.
Terrorists have no religion, no culture, and no nation, though they wear those as costumes to incriminate others. They have loyalty only to their own egos.
The 9/11 assault was an attack against Islam. If you don't believe that, look at the results.
• A petition to launch a real, public, subpoena-empowered, criminal investigation of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 is on the White House website. 5,000 signatures needed by 28 October 2011. Please go & sign that petition, & tell all your friends who care about the truth of 9/11. Spread it wide & quick across the Internet. We need a new fully independent commission to investigate this horrified tragedy.
The petition failed. A petition to have the government put more time and money into investigation UFO activity got more signatures. Good job truthers!
@dog4company And I remember Giuliani banning all cameras from the area of WTC supposedly because it was a crime scene. Then the "crime scene" was rapidly dismantled and shipped away (partly to China and India) and melted down. google "cameras banned from ground zero"
Shill. It's not hard to hit a building with a computer-animated plane, and with regard to keeping a secret, both demagogs and repulsives have kept many secrets from you throughout the years, but due to the nature of secrets, you don't know how easy it is to keep them.
Allegedly 1'000'000 people kept the Manhattan project secret with compartmentalization.
"It would have been insane" You mean like Hitler? "Any hint of a plan would have leaked" Well, there are millions of people who see thought the lies. And there are witnesses.
BBC reported the collapse of Building Seven before it happened.
Even Chomsky knows that there was no evidence against Bin Ladn. That's a scandal, isn't it? Even Keane tells us the investigation was highly flawed.
@ecsredeye Yes, its an idiotic argument. First, he implies that there's no need to even look at the evidence because the very speculation lacks credibility. And, of course, I don't believe for a second that he is unaware of the brazen and reckless acts of barely-fathomable ambition for power that define history.
I'm out. Please check out AE911truth(dot)org. It doesn't matter what country you are from because people are dying and suffering due to the events of 9/11 every single day. This is a morality issue. For the love of humanity, please learn the TRUTH, and share it with as many people as possible.
@dan32749 The building actually took around 40 seconds to collapse, and it was groaning for hours beforehand. Its collapse was anticipated by firefighters so nobody was injured when it finally started to crumble and fall. It didn't collapse at free-fall speed, its collapse was anticipated, no explosions were heard, no windows burst outwards.
That, I think, is all that actually needs to be said.
@BigMikeMcBastard Ohh ok so was it in your humble opinion the first steal structure to ever colapse from fire or was it the trade towers that were the first or something else?
@dan32749 The towers collapsed prior to 7 WTC and yes, they collapsed because their metal support structure heated unevenly, had the weight distribution thrown off, and collapsed under its own weight as a result.
It was the first incidence in which physical impacts from airplanes exposed steel trusses which were made vulnerable due to a loss of fire-proofing resulting in the collapse of a building, yeah.
@BigMikeMcBastard "" Building 7 collapsed due to massive damage by debris from the other falling towers and uncontrolled fires."
Actually, even the NIST final report on Bldg 7 patently states that falling debris did not cause anything but the starting of the fires. I have tried for months to post these quotes on youtube forums and they are, without exception, removed from the forum.
@ThePatcam Who arrived that conclusion? Advocates of the official crap state that like its fact. NIST has changed their story several times on the mater of bldg 7 and has concealed the primary data they used to make their conclusions. Stating an absolute lie like its a fact doesn't make it true. Provide documentation for your claim.
@Smedley2323 yeah, how bout you do the same? since you're the one making the least likely claim. i dont remember the study but it was done independently and was censored by the 9/11 commission because it asked questions about bush's negligence in preventing the attack, which is the real reason why this all happened. only conspiracy theorists believe in conspiracy theories, for psychological reasons. serious people can evaluate reality without connecting dots that don't merit connection
How about I do the same what???? You are implying that the official story is axiomatic. That, like the theory of gravity, it is all but accepted as fact. That the science is settled. You clam that serious people have "studied it" implying that you have sound science to back up your claims. If your claim is the "most likely" then show me one single peer reviewed substantiation of the Bldg 7 fire collapse crap.
@ThePatcam The NIST report on Building 7 is not peer reviewed and they have concealed all of their primary data. Generally, scientists who insist that they don't need to show your their primary data to substantiate their claims are looked upon as frauds and charlatans. Somehow, government sanctioned research on Bldg 7. one of the most controversial questions of our time, is exempt from this very reasonable standard.
@ShookOnesTO Yeah, agreeing with what the experts say and not leaping to conclusions based on insufficient evidence is probably something Canada would hate to be known for.
@ShookOnesTO Big Mike the Bastard is making humanity look stupid. Dividing the debate over what really happened on 9/11 into rational and irrational is a nice sleight of hand trick used by propagandists that is meant to fool naive and clueless people who believe in science and rationality, but are not independent thinkers, so that when they're told that something is unscientific and incorrect they take it at face value, and don't do any serious research into the topic on their own.
@ShookOnesTO The notion that scientific culture can't include dupes, shills and sociopaths... Its laughable. I wonder how many structural engineers even know what building 7 is, much less about the junk science reports that NIST produced on the matter. If they DO know, then they also know that speaking out is going to jeopardize their career and possibly their life.
@ucancallmeOh It is too complicated to have been realistically attempted. The odds of it succeeding would have been so low that nobody would have bothered doing it.
Too many people involved means you have too many chances for someone to give an anonymous tip or document dump to Wikileaks or whatever else. Bigger conspiracies are exponentially more likely to be revealed by an inside source who loses faith in the cause. Mass-murder of their fellow citizens makes that even more likely.
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ Your statement is logical...but the evidence refutes it. The only things that matter are empirical evidence, witness testimony, and expert testimony. On the scales of Justice, all of those things are slamming down on the side of "NEED FOR AN INTERNATIONAL COURT". The backstories may not be 100% clear to everyone, but that the official story is a series of monsterous lies is abundantly clear.
One question for you, Big Mike: What caused Bldg 7 to collapse?
@ucancallmeOh Building 7 collapsed due to massive damage by debris from the other falling towers and uncontrolled fires. As I mention to dan32749, its collapse was anticipated for hours and signs of its impending collapse allowed it to be free from any casualties. It collapse in pieces over the course of almost a minute as well. I'm not sure what you're proposing its collapse was actually caused by, but it seems fairly obvious that it collapsed under its own weight due to structural damage.
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ Okay, some redundancy with Part 1 of this video here. NIST position on WTC Bldg 7: "Office fires" caused the collapse. Please check out the 15 min. video on AE911truth(dot)org.
Are you familiar with the psychologica term 'cognitive dissonance' Big Mike? It means this stuff is a total mind fuck and very hard to believe. It gives me no joy to think of my gov't this way. I am a veteran. I love my country. This sucks, but TRUTH is TRUTH, and it must prevail.
@ucancallmeOh The good news is that I'm not American, so the activities of the US government are not something I struggle to come to terms with. I do not hesitate to make sure the evil that the US perpetrates is known to those of us outside that country, but I do not claim it is responsible for things it isn't. Focusing on a conspiracy theory without evidence to back it up detracts from the REAL misdeeds of the US.
@BigMikeMcBastard " Building 7 collapsed due to massive damage by debris from the other falling towers and uncontrolled fires."
Then why does the NIST Report on Bldg 7 say "Other than initiating the fires in WTC 7, the damage from the debris from WTC 1 (N. Tower) had little effect on initiating the collapse of WTC 7."? The report goes on to make a similar statement about WTC 2. Debris is ruled out by NIST itself, so lets put an end to that BS, please.
The more I read the more I begin to think that people like Alex Jones & Jesse Ventura are nut jobs. Too many wild claims that have no actual hard evidence,and the protests,the crazy radio rants...all of that ain't helping at all. Have you watched their programs? If you did,you should know what I mean. I agree the government hasn't given us answers to many questions,but twisting the issues too far won't get us anywhere. Who agree?
@dan32749 Yes, A LOT of things in the 911 incident that don't add up. The fact the 911 Commission was appointed directly by Bush & Cheney, and they met with the Commission in secret, and refused to open a truly thorough investigation into every single aspect. They completely left out Building 7. Yes. Too many suspicions. But what I meant was the way Alex Jones & Jesse Ventura are acting....like two fucking clowns. Seriously. I don't trust the gov', but I don't trust clowns either.
3:54 "even if it were true, which is extremely unlikely. Who cares? It doesn't mean anything significant". Really? Not saying 9/11 was a conspiracy, not saying that it wasn't. But if it was, then everything that happened in the years since was done for all the wrong reasons. All the damage done, all the lives lost, soldiers wounded, countries occupied. How is that NOT significant?
It was still done for all the wrong reasons. The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. U.S. policy towards the Middle East hasn't changed since 9/11. It gave the U.S. an excuse to try to develop another client state in Afghanistan, but that's about it. What he's saying is that even if the attacks were planned by the Bush admin. what would that change, regarding U.S. foreign policy or international politics in general? Nothing really.
@berletka i mean ....... shame (i have the same problem with spelling as you have with scientific and social responsibility- it is very poor chomsky, very poor)
I am a liberal who considers Bush to be the worst president of my lifetime. But if you think the Bush administration planned 9-11, you are a FUCKING IDIOT! 9-11 was an aberration for the Bush administration because the American people suddenly expected Bush to go into Afghanistan, which we had no interest in doing - initially it looked like a real problem for the Iraq plans. Luckily, we Americans are so stupid, he just had to say "Iraq" and "al-Qaeda" in the same sentence and it worked out.
@mraindog81 I'd suggest you re-trace the steps to Afghanistan. There was as huge propaganda and strategic push toward Afghanistan well in advance of 9/11/01. It is simply not reality to say that the Anglo American empire had no interest in Afghanistan.
Oh, and Bush didn't do it. That's a straw man that is not part of any well researched theory that I have ever seen. Bush was likely thrust into these events by his handlers and there is plenty of evidence to support that.
@dog4company The official story given by the government for 9/11 does not say that all those people were involved in a conspiracy. The story given by the government is that the conspiracy involved a group of terrorist extremists in the middle east. The GENERAL story given by conspiracy theorists is the one you quoted in your last response. Don't try and confuse the two. One of them is more likely than the other, and they're mutually exclusive.
Chomsky actually believes that "secrets are hard to keep"?And does he actually believe the Twin Towers both fell in EXACTLY the same way because of the planes? Does he not understand explosives? This guy is smart,but he's a phony,a gate keeper,"Controlled opposition"Hey Noam,its easy for people running operations like this to "keep secrets"--Its called INTIMIDATION. If someone tells you they're going to "Kill your family" if you talk,or you KNOW this will happen,you'll keep your mouth shut.
@mrbrianmccarthy i feel your pain...i thought this man would have the balls to say wats on his mind... i honestly dont believe this man believes what he is saying tho... im sure he was paid a long time ago to shut his face...
@mrbrianmccarthy And to give Noam some credit it's credible that had he called for 911 and JFK truth he'd perhaps be with Abraham Martin and John right now.
@ecsredeye Here's the thing though. Chomsky claims that he has made a career of fundamentally challenging power and speaking the truth, consequences be damned. His supposed bravery is his calling card. And, its not only this. Its JFK too. He doesn't just deny a conspiracy. With JFK, he goes out of his way to expand upon the denial and promote his views on the matter.
@GenSButler You're right. It's true though that in this country if one gets out in front and is effective bad things seem to happen Fred Hampton, Mark Clark, MLK, Malcolm X, JFK, Joe Hill, Sacco, Vanzeti. ( I put JFK in there because he apparently stopped the US military from going directly into Cuba, challenged the CIA, is said to have been ready to wind down the Vietnam adventure, etc. and he met a gruesome end certainly at the hands of a conspiracy.)
you gentiles are Pathetic Always take some jew and make him god or Messiah just like the jesus and kerl marx and know this noam chomsky did you ever wondering why is this all your biggst gods and messiah and your intellectuals from right and left are jewish and you wonder how we the jews call are self the chosen people dont diss this
comment in 100 yreas from know your kids will things that holly histroy just like your Fathers Though't even the arebs belive in a jewish idea of god
@dog4company Sending some extremists over on a secret mission is one thing, hiring people to rig the towers with explosives and giving orders to launch a rocket at the pentagon, etc are much harder to cover up, especially in a country like america where people aren't loyal extremists who don't talk.
@dog4company You're assessing the likelihood of 2 different things leaking. One is a group of muslim extremists who sent a few men to america to hijack planes. The other is a massive government cover-up in which the bush administration, the NYC police department, the pentagon, the media, the photographers of the sagging trusses, popular mechanics, the cia, the fbi, american airlines, the FAA and those who actually detonated the buildings were all involved.
we are anonymous, we are aware of the corruption in the world's governments and their apathy for the human lives because of money.
we are aware of the governments' attempt to cover on the news of the rebellions to keep us as slaves for the current system.
we are anonymous, we declare war on the corrupted system, join the plan to get your freedom and rights back. you are a human being, your life has value. we are anonymous, we are legion, expect us!
@mmtot your "largest military industrial intelligence complex with the greatest budget in the history of the world" just took a decade to find one dude hidden in a "ally" country. You overstate its powers.
ps - i just did a HUGE long and loud fart. Im quite pleased, and when finished typing this, will attempt to pull the covers up over my gf's head. i think the loud fart may have tipped her off to my little conspiracy, tho
The largest military industrial intelligence complex with the greatest budget in the history of the world couldn't pull it off, but a bunch of douchebags from a cave in afghanistan could? Ha this guy is a Joke, an intellectual intellectual prostitute, nothing more. The debate is over, it's scientifically empirical 9/11 was an inside job, and people gobble up this twit's rambling about left/right bla bla bla....................
@mmtot *smiles* u really like the douche word a lot. Im glad the debate is all settled for you, and that everything is all scientifically empirically shipshape. What are you going to do now though? Wheres the next step to, when the debate is all over?
@jeebersjumpincryst Yeah, douche is where it's at. I dunno? lets all just drink beer, watch more baseball and worship celebrities while the world goes to hell in a hand basket, shall we?
@mmtot thatd prolly work, but sounds a little dangerous and potentially violent. why not use the voting system, and so everyone, all the americans that is, knows who to vote for, just show them the scientific empirical evidence that 911 was done by the evil govt. and have everyone vote in a party that is not evil. the greenies, or nazi's, or whoever. i dont live there so i dont know much about whats availiable.
i cant believe that anyone seriously believes its a conspiracy. it will be forgotten, like jfk one, when the next big thing happens.
i guess it gives lots of people a hobby and a sense of community and feeling of purpose though, so not so bad a thing to believe, as long as nobody is hurting others or themselves, which no one seems to be doing.
i love noam chomsky, and typically agree with what he has to say. but in this case, it seems he had too much info to sift through with too many other priorities. his reasonable doubt hindered his analysis of what has become a substantially questionable occurrence, and if you do enough reading, you'll find more than enough reasons to question.
i've got like 50 more of these little factoids, but i feel like i've probably beaten this dead horse enough.
Late July 2001: The US and UN ignore warnings from the Taliban foreign minister that bin Laden is planning an imminent huge attack on US soil. The FBI and CIA also fail to take seriously warnings that Islamic fundamentalists have enrolled in flight schools across the US. [Independent, 9/7/02]
July 24, 2001: Larry Silverstein's $3.2 billion 99-year lease of the WTC is finalized. Silverstein hopes to win $7 billion in insurance from the destruction of the WTC towers. [NY Times, 02/16/03, Newsday, 09/25/02]
July 10, 2001: A Phoenix FBI agent sends a memorandum warning about Middle Eastern men taking flight lessons. He suspects bin Laden's followers and recommends a national program to check visas of suspicious flight-school students. The memo is sent to two FBI counter-terrorism offices, but no action is taken. [New York Times, 5/21/02] Vice President Cheney says in May 2002 that he opposes releasing this memo to congressional leaders or to the media and public. [CNN, 5/20/02]
June 28, 2001: CIA Director George J. Tenet has been "nearly frantic" with concern. A written intelligence summary for Condoleezza Rice says: "It is highly likely that a significant al Qaeda attack is in the near future, within several weeks." Rice will later claim that everyone was taken by complete surprise by the 9/11 attack. By late summer, one senior political appointee says, Tenet had repeated this threat "so often that people got tired of hearing it." [Washington Post, 5/17/02]
May 2001: The US introduces "Visa Express" program allowing any Saudi Arabian to obtain visas through their travel agent instead of appearing at a consulate in person. [US News and World Report, 12/12/01] Five hijackers use Visa Express to enter the US. [Congressional Intelligence Committee, 9/20/02]
Jan 2001: After the elections, US intelligence agencies are told to “back off” investigating the bin Ladens and Saudi royals. There have always been constraints on investigating Saudis. [BBC, 11/6/01]
2000 – 2001: The military conducts exercises simulating what the White House later says is unimaginable: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties. One imagined target is the WTC. [USA Today, 4/19/04] Another is the Pentagon. [Military District of Washington (Army), 11/3/00]
1996-2001: Federal authorities have known for years that suspected terrorists with ties to bin Laden were receiving flight training at schools in the US and abroad. One convicted terrorist confessed that his planned role in a terror attack was to crash a plane into CIA headquarters. [Washington Post, 9/23/01]
1996: The Saudi Arabian government is financially supporting Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda and other extremist groups. After 9/11, the Bush Administration chooses not to confront the Saudi leadership over its support of terror organizations and its refusal to help in the investigation. [New Yorker, 10/22/01]
1994: Two attacks take place which involve hijacking planes to crash them into buildings, including one by an Islamic militant group. In a third attack, a lone pilot crashes a plane at the White House. Yet after Sept. 11, over and over aviation and security officials say they are shocked that terrorists could have hijacked airliners and crashed them into landmark buildings. [New York Times, 10/3/01]
"According to standard operating procedures, if an FAA flight controller notices anything that suggests possible hijacking, controllers contact their superiors. Within about a minute, the superiors notify NORAD. NORAD then issues the scramble order to the nearest Air Force base that has firefighters on alert. Although interceptions usually occur within 10 or so minutes, in this case 80 or so minutes had elapsed before fighters were even airborne."
Major General Larry Arnold: “I think if those aircraft had gotten airborne immediately, they could have turned toward Washington, DC, and gone into burner, it is physically possible that they could have gotten over Washington before 9:37, when the Pentagon is hit. Yet according to the 9/11 Commission, the jets are redirected east over the Atlantic Ocean and will be 150 miles from the Pentagon when it is hit (see 9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004]
US air control responded to a plane that lost radio contact in 1999 within 5 minutes.
F-16s have a maximum speed of 1,500 mph at high altitude, or 915 mph at sea level, so the three fighters could plausibly travel the 130 miles from Langley Air Force Base to Washington in just minutes.
[CHANT, 1987, PP. 404; ASSOCIATED PRESS, 6/16/2000; USA TODAY, 9/16/2001; WASHINGTON POST, 9/16/2001 ; US AIR FORCE, 10/2007]
at 4.12 this intellectual giant and alleged ex-zionist says"who knows, who cares" regarding the kennedy assasination and 9/11.Brushing aside all unofficial conflicting "facts" in both incidents. Without question of the proven lack of protocol in any official investigations and hindsight apologies.Presented as a tower of logic and reason over the years by simply stating the obvious,is he a zionist sleeper agent?,is this another conspiracy theory?.two=1 and=3 therefore >>two and two =5<<,(1+3+1).
Stop doing "VOICE TO SKULL ON INNOCENTS PEOPLE-STOPED-STOPED-STOPE"!!! Something very very wrong with Russians/Ashkenazies/Germans Jews (Mkultra, Kabalah,The Lost Tribe -are run secretly by those power-sharks They are behind everything-thats it!!!) suppresses Mafia that underground-underneath of everything they are behind everything! Silverstien, Kissinger and more are sickos!
Noam is another phony, bought and paid for gatekeeper on the oligarch's payroll. State sponsored terrorist attacks are one of the oldest tricks in the book. Wake the f*ck up Noam. It truly puzzles me why so many lemmings fawn over this overrated, disinformant.
Wow. I post a message to Kook Tarts Big Farts, one that provides a list of scientific references supporting the official account and it gets flagged as spam.
Surely the keepers of the official faith aren't threatened by the public reading their own explanation, are they?
Chomsky is presenting a sleight of hand argument. Instead of addressing the evidence that patently rules out a fire collapse hypothesis, he dismisses the argument a priori, saying "who would try such a thing". The fact remains that fire cannot create the building collapses that we saw. So no matter how unlikely a CD may be, a fire collapse can be summarily ruled out. When pressed, NC hides behind "only an expert can interpret the scientific data, which is simply not true.
@nealkassanoff exactly. Propaganda has many layers and what this guy's agenda is these days? .... probably gets paid by tax dollars and wants to stay alive. For me he is completely unbelievable, absurd even. 911 was an inside job for whatever reason. If you look at the bank accounts of Cheney and Rubin you will probably soon understand who did benefit
@edicccc NC began his career at MIT on a Machine Translation Project. This is the roots of Echelon as well as the NSA's massive automated language recognition systems. He minimizes any secrecy of these projects as a bureaucratic inconvenience that mostly encumbered his ostensibly purist academic pursuits. He also says that it was no concern to MIT (funded by private secretive labs and the military) that he was protesting the vietnam war. The whole thing stinks to me.
@KookTartsBigFarts1 No, Kook Tarts Big Farts One, don't listen to me. Read the official explanations and you can find out what detritus it is for yourself. Would you like references?
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation" Thomas W. Eagar and Christopher Musso
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?—Simple Analysis By Zdenek P. Bazant1, Fellow ASCE, and Yong Zhou
NIST NCSTAR 1A: Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7
@KookTartsBigFarts1 the USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for oil similar to the Nazi's plundering gold all over Europe. The USA is a bankrupt country that can only inflate it's way out of debt. By plundering the oil and artificially inflating the price of oil the USA manages to pay their debts. 911 was an inside job. If you would be a loyal American you would have found out about this already. You are a neocon scumbag, not a real American. You belong to the looters, you are a traitor
@edicccc "the USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for oil"
~ Faulty premise, The US pumps the most oil in the world followed by Russia then comes Saudia Arabia. We get oil from dozens of different countries Iraq & Afganistan's oil is no diffrent then the rest. You white flag waving liberal demoratic leftist communistic bums with a yellow streak a mile long running down your back is the reason they attacked us first. They knew they had a inbuilt allie in the US they could count on FUCK YOU TOO!
~ WE DIDN'T THEN OR NOW OR IN THE FUTURE NEED IRAQ/AFGANISTAN OIL WE CAN GET IT ELSEWHERE, ALL WE NEED, WITHOUT AN EXPENSIVE WAR ! YOU JFK DO GOODERS NEVER LEARNED WHEN THE RIGHTS OF ONE MAN ARE THREATENED ALL MEN'S RIGHTS ARE IN DANGER WAKE UP SNORY !
"why can't u explain w/out going on a hateful rant?"
~ YOU COMPARED AMERICA WITH NAZI GERMANY BY PLUNDERING OIL, YOU THINK SLOW WITTED GEOGE PULLED OFF 9/11
i did no such thing. so u have to find other proof that u think im' a spineless idiot. which is what i think of u
didnt u know mccain and obama both take money from the corporations? what the fuck does it mean to be conservative anymore? and what's wrong with being a do gooder? u have a lot to answer for sir..
didn't you know that both parties take money from corporations? what does it mean to be conservative these days? maybe there should be an option to vote for enron directly. would you take that? so u can cut out the middle man puppet. same goes for obama ofc.
I would say that JFK, and 9/11 are of importance. If it is true that these acts were carried out to serve an agenda than exposing the people behind it would entice people to ask more questions of their sources of information which is always good in my opinion. Who cares is coming from a man who knows that wars are carried out, and news is reported that fits a political purpose. Politicians of course are governed by lobby money, and the rich are governed by ambition. I believe it is improtant
"It's diverting people from serious issues [...] even if it's true, who cares? [...] what difference does it make? It's just taking energy away from serious issues [...]" Indeed, even if control was 100% & no evidence of an inside job made it out, 9/11 happened and cannot be reversed. But wars in Afghanistan & Iraq, drone strikes in Pakistan & Yemen were preventable if we as a people with power in numbers shut down the capital and terrified the corporate-military-state beast into paralysis.
@anarchyliberty "Indeed, even if control was 100% & no evidence of an inside job made it out, 9/11 happened and cannot be reversed. But wars in Afghanistan & Iraq..."
Any support for the wars you mention are built on the false 911 premise. Without the false premise what happens to the base of support for these horrible wars? It disappears. Conservatives and liberals come together to stop the wars and prosecute the real criminals. No more fake debate about "blowback" vs. "they hate our freedom".
@nealkassanoff Notice the change in pretext for the war in Iraq. Ultimately, nation & democracy building became (& still are) the stated goals. The 9/11 premise evaporated, Powell lost face over his sham evidence for WMDs presented at the UN that was based on a sham informant, yet the war proceeded. OK, so that leaves the 3 other countries. Say 9/11 were an inside job, Iraq makes sense (vast oil reserves), but invading&occupying Afghanistan & drone strikes in Yemen & Pakistan to what end?
@anarchyliberty I don't buy that WMD's or other premises would have meant anything without the trauma-based programming afforded by 911. They didn't just lie about WMD's, they said over and over that they didn't want a new 911 as part of that propaganda. Once we point the finger at the actual culprit, the trauma-based programming backfires and you'll have a populist revolt. Once we point the finger at the actual culprit, the war racqueteers will be on notice.
@nealkassanoff Good you don't buy those premises because they meant nothing--all were false. As for in the mainstream, all were accepted as false, except for the WMDs--itself even downplayed in favor of simply freeing Iraq from a despot. For all their "trauma-based programming afforded by 9/11," Americans still favored diplomacy & getting UN backing before going at it alone, this in spite of all the propaganda. Not very reactionary or irrational. Not bad for a supposedly traumatized people.
@anarchyliberty So your point is what? That the programming didn't work on everyone for every policy? As I recall, Bush's approval rating went from lowest early term rating in polling history to b/t 90 and 95%. As I recall, 911 remained a talking point for the Iraq venture. As I recall, the lawmakers and pundits closed ranks behind Bush and they get kicked out of the club to this day if they question the official story of 911. As I recall Afghanistan, Homeland Sec and Patriot act all rest on 911
@nealkassanoff You're talking about polls immediately following 9/11. What on earth does this have to do with Iraq in 2003? Fine, 9/11 was a talking point, but that link was dismissed in favor of WMDs. OK, 9/11 was traumatizing & as such remained in play. Still, traumatized Americans, the majority of them, had a very rational conception about how the war should proceed--diplomacy first and preferably with UN backing. That's just not very characteristic of a traumatized people/person.
@anarchyliberty "Fine, 9/11 was a talking point, but that link was dismissed in favor of WMDs." No it wasn't. It was carefully paired with the WMD talking point, with careful wording. Polls even showed that that many people mistakenly believed that Hussein had a hand in 911. Would you argue that the deliberate pairing of these talking points had nothing to do with that association? Or that the pairing of these talking points was not to that end?
@nealkassanoff I wasn't arguing either. I was referring to the media where the 9/11 link didn't hold out. Yes, the time it was there in the media it did have an effect: polls indeed did show that a significant number believed the link. So what? The traumatized populace still had a very rational response to all the propagandizing, but that unfortunately wasn't backed up with a mass movement.
@anarchyliberty "The traumatized populace still had a very rational response to all the propagandizing" Thank god that so many people only believed that 911 was really an outsider attack. But the entire debate crumbles, the entire base of support for the imperial lunge forward vanishes from every politician, every pundit and every citizen with the false premise itself is outed and destroyed. Every decision maker runs for cover and claims that they were scammed with the rest of the public.
@anarchyliberty As I recall, the controversy over Bush's stolen victory all but disappeared after 911. As I recall, the 1.2 trillion missing from the Pentagon budget was wiped from the headlines after 911. As I recall, Bush described 911 as "hitting the trifecta". As I recall, pundits for both parties have gotten outed for saying "what Obama/Bush needs is another terror attack to bring the country together." As I recall, the anti war forces were holding back an Iraq attack b/f 911.
@nealkassanoff Bush's stolen election was gone: when the Supreme Court intervened, that was the end of it. 9/11 had nothing to do with that. Bush was certified & was not going to be thrown out of office. All your quotes are meaningless without context. "Hitting the trifecta" could simply mean 2 towers&the Pentagon for all I know, which is what 9/11 was. "What Obama/Bush needs..." could simply be a reference to how pliable people are after attacks, which makes governing easy for the president.
@nealkassanoff Yes, seriously. Try Oxford English Dictionary -- "a run of three wins or grand events." Three is quite obviously pertinent in a TRIfecta. Imagine that.
@nealkassanoff You give me a 3-word phrase without context. I can do no more but grasp at straws--the most plausible, parsimonious one, which I did. OK, so it means he "had a great success due to 9/11." Didn't he? His ratings went up, he managed to finesse a pretext to finally get his Iraq invasion. It might sound outrageous, and it is, but it's also true. Doesn't mean he was involved in an inside job.
@anarchyliberty "Bush's stolen election was gone: when the Supreme Court intervened, that was the end of it."
Do you really believe that? Bush's motorcade was booed through most of his inauguration procession. He remained immensely unpopular and had to even cancel visits to American towns because of spontaneous protest gatherings. This guy would have been lucky to have survived a full term without a galvanizing event to instill the fear of an outsider attack.
@nealkassanoff Look, I followed the alternative media. Yes, those protests were there. Separate the mainstream from everything else. Bush was president & nothing was going to change that. The movement was small & having no effect by the time 9/11 happened, the Supreme Court had certified the win, the media moved on (in fact, hardly even touched it to begin with), the mainstream was simply out of it.
@anarchyliberty I was very much involved in left activism at the time as well. Federal Marshalls shut down Free Radio Austin the day before the election. Bush's approval was in the toilet. He was a lame duck in his first term, but not after 911. The media moved on? A sizable portion of the population still was saying that he was illegitimate.
@nealkassanoff The population is not the mainstream, corporate media. Note that, again, I was referring to the mainstream. He wasn't going to get impeached, de-certified, nothing. The movement wasn't having any effect, unfortunately. It was over.
Yes, until 9/11 there seemed to be nothing going on for him. 9/11 gave him a chance to do many things & make a name for himself. OK, doesn't point to inside job. In fact, it's pretty meaningless as an observation.
@anarchyliberty "9/11 gave him a chance to do many things & make a name for himself. OK, doesn't point to inside job."
You started out by saying something different. You started by minimizing the impact of 911. Now you're saying, "okay, 911 was big for the pres, but not proof of an inside job."
The point is that 911 was the necessary galvanizing event spelled out in the PNAC document, circa 1999, the new Pearl Harbor. Is it final proof if InsJob? No. Point to? Yes.
@nealkassanoff What did I say? In all I've posted on here I have never considered what 9/11 meant to Bush as a president because it's irrelevant. And yes, big for the president still says nothing of an inside job. Many presidents have a defining moment. So what? That was Bush's.
You're reaching on the PNAC, & it is in fact irrelevant. We could go back to the NSC document in the late 50s & say exactly what you just said because it fits right in with US hegemony to control Mid East oil.
@anarchyliberty "We could go back to the NSC document in the late 50s & say exactly what you just said because it fits right in with US hegemony to control Mid East oil."
Yes, we could, and we could point to the failed mission to blame the USS Liberty on Egypt even as LBJ gave a stand down order (you can hear a recording of it at LBJ library), even as it was Israeli ships that sunk it.
@nealkassanoff OK, yes, and there's way more evidence for that event (USS Liberty) than "we heard explosives"-type accounts & other coincidences, including that it's actually admitted to by both governments, though the motivation they give (that it was just in error) remains doubtful. My point was simply that it's all speculative & far-fetched in pointing to an inside job. It's coincidences on top of coincidences on top of speculation on top of mystery/unexplained phenomena. Wasted energy.
@anarchyliberty "OK, yes, and there's way more evidence for that event (USS Liberty) than "we heard explosives"-type accounts & other coincidences"
As a scientist, you know that anyone who withholds evidence contradictory to a predetermined conclusion is not trusted by their scientific peers. We're talking about hundreds of witnesses who heard explosions. Their accounts were completely ignored, often classified.
@nealkassanoff What does "contradictory to a predetermined conclusion" even mean? As a scientist (don't even claim to be that), I try not to have predetermined conclusions. That wouldn't be considered proper scientific procedure. Sure, they aren't to be trusted. Therefore, we say that anything beyond the actual withholding is deliberate? We speculate on their motives & claim that speculation as fact or proof of something far greater? Echoing your statements, "What happened to Occam's Razor?"
@anarchyliberty If you have hundreds of witnesses that heard explosions (many before the collapses) and you omit or even classify every single one those testimonies, you are omitting evidence that is contradictory to the fire collapse hypothesis. If you have scores of witnesses who saw molten metal and you omit every single one of them, you are omitting evidence that is contradictory to...
mr chomsky for all his brilliance..is clueless...no planes...unbelieveable as it seems..but check out DIMITRI KHALEZOV 911 THE THIRD TRUTH...this is so amazing...as clever as we are..we aint that clever at all relying on our own intellectualism..we need something more...the spirit...
boadicea2 2 weeks ago
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Сионисты, вы крупнейших лежал зла ублюдков на этой земле, мы собираемся разбить вас, мы собираемся смирить тебя и приведу вас на колени. Ваш зла худых путей будут выставлены всем за то, что они на самом деле и навсегда уничтожен.
CrusaderLuis 2 weeks ago
Mr Chosky needs to explain how building 7 collapsed & the location of the wings at the Pentagon.
slaakattak 3 weeks ago
Us government is behind it indirectly. Fucking around in the middle east since the 50s. Pissing off Muslims, bombing shit, killing people. I'd guess Americans would be pretty pissed if China was fucking around, bombing shit and killing civilians in the USA.
Andersll11 1 month ago 3
@Andersll11
you invaded like a nation not like a fucking government what are u talking about ?
skuterixas91 1 month ago
00:30 "secrets are hard to keep"
Ok so we (the good guys) can not keep secrets but the big bad wolf can?
What about outfit who really planned and organized the 911 attack?
They managed to keep it a secret.
Nobody on either side has stepped forward with a 'secret' capable of exposing who the real perpetrators were.
But if you add MOTIVE, ACCESS, who profited, who made out like a bandit, who came out on top after the 3 buildings came down on 911, you end up with the name Larry the Liar.
islandbuoy4 1 month ago
I think Chomsky is wrong in this. I admire him so much, but I think he discards the suspicious evidence that make a lot of people believe this consipracy theories, like the FACT that was Operation Northwoods. They wanted to blow up a plane with american citizens inside it making it look like it was a cuban attack, so the country would enrage and want to go to war. The US has already plotted actions like this, and everybody knows, but no one seems to think its important or its related to this.
huevosteve 1 month ago
Intelligence (aka 'specialized knowledge') is NOT Wisdom- Truth. Thousands of many years ago the world (the masses), including 'scholars' believed- by default, because "we were told by the 'bosses/lords'" - that the Earth was flat. However, upon common sense OBSERVATION and STUDY,....well, the rest is factual history. ☼
racingracing 1 month ago
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Well this is just one of the all too many cases on our books of Americanism. The only way that we can fight this terrible debilitating social disease, is by informing the general public of its consequences, by showing young people that it's just not worth it. So please give generously to this address: The League for fighting the United States of America, 55 Lincoln House, Basil Street, London, SW3.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 2 months ago
What is it they say - for evil to triumph it takes good men to remain silent.
32peartree 2 months ago
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32peartree 2 months ago
Of course bush didn't do it. Jeez. American special forces and big business did it. Take that Chomsky. Remember JFK and the Vietnam War.
ulaghchi 2 months ago
Watch what he actually said as this taken totally out of context and massively edited
/watch?v=LoDqDvbgeXM&feature=related
WillShakespeare2007 2 months ago
The point is, the 'best laboratories' in America are not going to set up an experiment to establish weather 911 was an inside job - because they don't want the 'flack' Noam. Moreover, a proper independent investigation would have to involve teams from two other countries. But the caveat is - what serious institution would waste its precious time and resources on such a ridiculous proposition - you get the picture - us uppity niggers should just stop askin' all them pesky little questions.
32peartree 2 months ago
There's nothing like a Chomsky video to bring out the nutters!
Cairnsmans 2 months ago
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Terrorists caused 9/11. Case closed.
Terrorists have no religion, no culture, and no nation, though they wear those as costumes to incriminate others. They have loyalty only to their own egos.
The 9/11 assault was an attack against Islam. If you don't believe that, look at the results.
Who would want to hurt Islam? The zionazis?
eastariel 3 months ago
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how many terrorists does it take to implode 3 building in New York City ?
VoltageLineTV 3 months ago
• A petition to launch a real, public, subpoena-empowered, criminal investigation of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 is on the White House website. 5,000 signatures needed by 28 October 2011. Please go & sign that petition, & tell all your friends who care about the truth of 9/11. Spread it wide & quick across the Internet. We need a new fully independent commission to investigate this horrified tragedy.
plau0088 3 months ago
@plau0088 post the link - it makes it a few steps quicker to get people to your cause
VoltageLineTV 3 months ago
@plau0088
The petition failed. A petition to have the government put more time and money into investigation UFO activity got more signatures. Good job truthers!
SnoopySuited 3 months ago
1000 Architect and Engineers know way more about it than Chompsky. It's easy to see who Chompsk is supporting.
littlewing1958 3 months ago
I have a limit to my knowledge.
So does Mr. Chompsky.
He can easily see mine and I his. After all, we've studied different subjects.
barrywilliamsmb 4 months ago
@dog4company And I remember Giuliani banning all cameras from the area of WTC supposedly because it was a crime scene. Then the "crime scene" was rapidly dismantled and shipped away (partly to China and India) and melted down. google "cameras banned from ground zero"
ecsredeye 4 months ago
Shill. It's not hard to hit a building with a computer-animated plane, and with regard to keeping a secret, both demagogs and repulsives have kept many secrets from you throughout the years, but due to the nature of secrets, you don't know how easy it is to keep them.
Allegedly 1'000'000 people kept the Manhattan project secret with compartmentalization.
disinpho 4 months ago
"It would have been insane" You mean like Hitler? "Any hint of a plan would have leaked" Well, there are millions of people who see thought the lies. And there are witnesses.
BBC reported the collapse of Building Seven before it happened.
Even Chomsky knows that there was no evidence against Bin Ladn. That's a scandal, isn't it? Even Keane tells us the investigation was highly flawed.
ecsredeye 4 months ago
@ecsredeye Yes, its an idiotic argument. First, he implies that there's no need to even look at the evidence because the very speculation lacks credibility. And, of course, I don't believe for a second that he is unaware of the brazen and reckless acts of barely-fathomable ambition for power that define history.
GenSButler 4 months ago
If 9/11 conspiracists had any credibility whatsoever Chomsky would be the first person to support them, yet he dismisses them.
If only there were more clear minded thinkers like Noam behind there keyboards instead of retarded "truther" douche bag boners.
ChrisRyannMusic 4 months ago
noam chomsky is a treasonous forked tongued devil.
alleywants 4 months ago
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@benladen9892 posted on my profile:
"LONG LIVE HITLER,LONG LIVE EGYPT,LONG LIVE IRAN,your day is coming"
What a perfect example that Nazi Himmler knew what he talked about:
1:Himmler SS head established Islamische Zentralinstitu to create Islamic leaders that would
USE ISLAMAISM AS A CARRIER FOR NATZI IDEOLOGY IN THE 21 CENTURY
2:Arabs volunteered to Nazi army-40000 in Balkan divisions.
3:Muslim brotherhood leader:
The Nazi dint finished the job.The Muslim brotherhood will finish
MordechayAriely 4 months ago
I'm out. Please check out AE911truth(dot)org. It doesn't matter what country you are from because people are dying and suffering due to the events of 9/11 every single day. This is a morality issue. For the love of humanity, please learn the TRUTH, and share it with as many people as possible.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
Building 7 freefall speed that's all that needs to be said.....
dan32749 4 months ago
@dan32749 The building actually took around 40 seconds to collapse, and it was groaning for hours beforehand. Its collapse was anticipated by firefighters so nobody was injured when it finally started to crumble and fall. It didn't collapse at free-fall speed, its collapse was anticipated, no explosions were heard, no windows burst outwards.
That, I think, is all that actually needs to be said.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Ohh ok so was it in your humble opinion the first steal structure to ever colapse from fire or was it the trade towers that were the first or something else?
dan32749 4 months ago
@dan32749 The towers collapsed prior to 7 WTC and yes, they collapsed because their metal support structure heated unevenly, had the weight distribution thrown off, and collapsed under its own weight as a result.
It was the first incidence in which physical impacts from airplanes exposed steel trusses which were made vulnerable due to a loss of fire-proofing resulting in the collapse of a building, yeah.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard "The towers collapsed prior to 7 WTC and yes, they collapsed because their metal support structure heated unevenly"
Yeah, that's why both towers collapsed in an exploding, mushrooming cascade that was largely uniform to both towers.
Smedley2323 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard "" Building 7 collapsed due to massive damage by debris from the other falling towers and uncontrolled fires."
Actually, even the NIST final report on Bldg 7 patently states that falling debris did not cause anything but the starting of the fires. I have tried for months to post these quotes on youtube forums and they are, without exception, removed from the forum.
Smedley2323 4 months ago
@Smedley2323 chill yo, plenty of serious people have studied it and arrived at the more likely, less insane conclusion that it collapsed on its own.
ThePatcam 4 months ago
@ThePatcam Who arrived that conclusion? Advocates of the official crap state that like its fact. NIST has changed their story several times on the mater of bldg 7 and has concealed the primary data they used to make their conclusions. Stating an absolute lie like its a fact doesn't make it true. Provide documentation for your claim.
Smedley2323 4 months ago
@Smedley2323 yeah, how bout you do the same? since you're the one making the least likely claim. i dont remember the study but it was done independently and was censored by the 9/11 commission because it asked questions about bush's negligence in preventing the attack, which is the real reason why this all happened. only conspiracy theorists believe in conspiracy theories, for psychological reasons. serious people can evaluate reality without connecting dots that don't merit connection
ThePatcam 4 months ago
@ThePatcam "yeah, how bout you do the same?"
How about I do the same what???? You are implying that the official story is axiomatic. That, like the theory of gravity, it is all but accepted as fact. That the science is settled. You clam that serious people have "studied it" implying that you have sound science to back up your claims. If your claim is the "most likely" then show me one single peer reviewed substantiation of the Bldg 7 fire collapse crap.
Smedley2323 4 months ago
@ThePatcam The NIST report on Building 7 is not peer reviewed and they have concealed all of their primary data. Generally, scientists who insist that they don't need to show your their primary data to substantiate their claims are looked upon as frauds and charlatans. Somehow, government sanctioned research on Bldg 7. one of the most controversial questions of our time, is exempt from this very reasonable standard.
Smedley2323 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Hey big fat bastard you're making Canada look stupid. Stop it.
ShookOnesTO 4 months ago
@ShookOnesTO Yeah, agreeing with what the experts say and not leaping to conclusions based on insufficient evidence is probably something Canada would hate to be known for.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@ShookOnesTO Big Mike the Bastard is making humanity look stupid. Dividing the debate over what really happened on 9/11 into rational and irrational is a nice sleight of hand trick used by propagandists that is meant to fool naive and clueless people who believe in science and rationality, but are not independent thinkers, so that when they're told that something is unscientific and incorrect they take it at face value, and don't do any serious research into the topic on their own.
GenSButler 4 months ago
@ShookOnesTO The notion that scientific culture can't include dupes, shills and sociopaths... Its laughable. I wonder how many structural engineers even know what building 7 is, much less about the junk science reports that NIST produced on the matter. If they DO know, then they also know that speaking out is going to jeopardize their career and possibly their life.
GenSButler 4 months ago
Chomsky offers all the sophistication of a high school freshmen:
1. It's complicated; coincidences and unexplained phenomena..
2. It would have taken too many people/ someone would have come forward
3. They (the accused inside job perpetrators) would have been insane to take such a risk.
Then: "Who cares?" Hey, Chomsky: Fuck you! I care, and so do millions of others.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh It is too complicated to have been realistically attempted. The odds of it succeeding would have been so low that nobody would have bothered doing it.
Too many people involved means you have too many chances for someone to give an anonymous tip or document dump to Wikileaks or whatever else. Bigger conspiracies are exponentially more likely to be revealed by an inside source who loses faith in the cause. Mass-murder of their fellow citizens makes that even more likely.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ Your statement is logical...but the evidence refutes it. The only things that matter are empirical evidence, witness testimony, and expert testimony. On the scales of Justice, all of those things are slamming down on the side of "NEED FOR AN INTERNATIONAL COURT". The backstories may not be 100% clear to everyone, but that the official story is a series of monsterous lies is abundantly clear.
One question for you, Big Mike: What caused Bldg 7 to collapse?
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh Building 7 collapsed due to massive damage by debris from the other falling towers and uncontrolled fires. As I mention to dan32749, its collapse was anticipated for hours and signs of its impending collapse allowed it to be free from any casualties. It collapse in pieces over the course of almost a minute as well. I'm not sure what you're proposing its collapse was actually caused by, but it seems fairly obvious that it collapsed under its own weight due to structural damage.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ Okay, some redundancy with Part 1 of this video here. NIST position on WTC Bldg 7: "Office fires" caused the collapse. Please check out the 15 min. video on AE911truth(dot)org.
Are you familiar with the psychologica term 'cognitive dissonance' Big Mike? It means this stuff is a total mind fuck and very hard to believe. It gives me no joy to think of my gov't this way. I am a veteran. I love my country. This sucks, but TRUTH is TRUTH, and it must prevail.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh The good news is that I'm not American, so the activities of the US government are not something I struggle to come to terms with. I do not hesitate to make sure the evil that the US perpetrates is known to those of us outside that country, but I do not claim it is responsible for things it isn't. Focusing on a conspiracy theory without evidence to back it up detracts from the REAL misdeeds of the US.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
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@BigMikeMcBastard " Building 7 collapsed due to massive damage by debris from the other falling towers and uncontrolled fires."
Then why does the NIST Report on Bldg 7 say "Other than initiating the fires in WTC 7, the damage from the debris from WTC 1 (N. Tower) had little effect on initiating the collapse of WTC 7."? The report goes on to make a similar statement about WTC 2. Debris is ruled out by NIST itself, so lets put an end to that BS, please.
Smedley2323 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Fuck you little mike!!!!
dan32749 4 months ago
The more I read the more I begin to think that people like Alex Jones & Jesse Ventura are nut jobs. Too many wild claims that have no actual hard evidence,and the protests,the crazy radio rants...all of that ain't helping at all. Have you watched their programs? If you did,you should know what I mean. I agree the government hasn't given us answers to many questions,but twisting the issues too far won't get us anywhere. Who agree?
KrazeDiamond 4 months ago in playlist 9/11 Conspiracy Theory Debunking 4
@KrazeDiamond Key words for people like you- building 7 FREE FALL SPEED ?
dan32749 4 months ago
@dan32749 Yes, A LOT of things in the 911 incident that don't add up. The fact the 911 Commission was appointed directly by Bush & Cheney, and they met with the Commission in secret, and refused to open a truly thorough investigation into every single aspect. They completely left out Building 7. Yes. Too many suspicions. But what I meant was the way Alex Jones & Jesse Ventura are acting....like two fucking clowns. Seriously. I don't trust the gov', but I don't trust clowns either.
KrazeDiamond 4 months ago
chomsky is a fucking dope
illuminatismasher 4 months ago
Are you kidding me? That's not Chomsky, just a poor lookalike. The real Chomsky spents his time wearing orange suits at Guantanamo.
Schlusssatz 4 months ago
Noam Chomsky just went on my "naughty" list
lahillsm3 4 months ago
3:54 "even if it were true, which is extremely unlikely. Who cares? It doesn't mean anything significant". Really? Not saying 9/11 was a conspiracy, not saying that it wasn't. But if it was, then everything that happened in the years since was done for all the wrong reasons. All the damage done, all the lives lost, soldiers wounded, countries occupied. How is that NOT significant?
kemicon 5 months ago
@kemicon Listen to what he said afterwards.
frankangelo1983 4 months ago
@kemicon
It was still done for all the wrong reasons. The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. U.S. policy towards the Middle East hasn't changed since 9/11. It gave the U.S. an excuse to try to develop another client state in Afghanistan, but that's about it. What he's saying is that even if the attacks were planned by the Bush admin. what would that change, regarding U.S. foreign policy or international politics in general? Nothing really.
ChomskyandCheetos 4 months ago
@kemicon No one can doubt that 911 was a conspiracy. The official line is a ludicrous conspiracy theory.
ecsredeye 4 months ago
i care and Niels Harrit cares, scheme on you chomsky
berletka 5 months ago
@berletka i mean ....... shame (i have the same problem with spelling as you have with scientific and social responsibility- it is very poor chomsky, very poor)
berletka 5 months ago
I am a liberal who considers Bush to be the worst president of my lifetime. But if you think the Bush administration planned 9-11, you are a FUCKING IDIOT! 9-11 was an aberration for the Bush administration because the American people suddenly expected Bush to go into Afghanistan, which we had no interest in doing - initially it looked like a real problem for the Iraq plans. Luckily, we Americans are so stupid, he just had to say "Iraq" and "al-Qaeda" in the same sentence and it worked out.
mraindog81 5 months ago
@mraindog81 I'd suggest you re-trace the steps to Afghanistan. There was as huge propaganda and strategic push toward Afghanistan well in advance of 9/11/01. It is simply not reality to say that the Anglo American empire had no interest in Afghanistan.
Oh, and Bush didn't do it. That's a straw man that is not part of any well researched theory that I have ever seen. Bush was likely thrust into these events by his handlers and there is plenty of evidence to support that.
Smedley2323 5 months ago
Chomsky's logic has all the sophistication of a high school sophmore.
ucancallmeOh 5 months ago
“… if it had (been an inside job) it’s almost certain it would have leaked”
It’s been leaking for years!!!
“Anybody who knows anything about the sciences can discount that evidence?”
So… 1400+ Architects and Engineers for 9 11 Truth know nothing about science... mmmhm… “even if was true (…) who cares”!!!??? I loved that one!!!
Threatened? Afraid of consequences?? Protecting something???
FantomasXZ7 5 months ago
@FantomasXZ7 The real question you should've asked is, "Where is Tupac?"
You'd spend your time better searching for that answer.
Ematched 5 months ago
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FantomasXZ7 5 months ago
"even if it were true, which is extremely unlikely, who cares? It doesn't have any significance." WOW
"I'm pretty isolated on this." YES
Joeybagadounuts08 5 months ago
What! Who knows, who cares. :l Did some one just take over his body there. It doesnt matter who killed JFK, hmmn some one please explain.
wiggledytoes 5 months ago
@dog4company The official story given by the government for 9/11 does not say that all those people were involved in a conspiracy. The story given by the government is that the conspiracy involved a group of terrorist extremists in the middle east. The GENERAL story given by conspiracy theorists is the one you quoted in your last response. Don't try and confuse the two. One of them is more likely than the other, and they're mutually exclusive.
JessAtlas 6 months ago
PNAC/Clean Break, case closed. prosecute them now.
theunicorntaxi 6 months ago
Shall I quote that as I am gob smacked: 'even if it's true which is highly unlikely who cares'
And then 'it doesnt have any significance'
Right so if the powers that run america did carry out 911 it insignificant? and who cares anyway right? Chomsky the great moralist
099749 6 months ago
Chomsky actually believes that "secrets are hard to keep"?And does he actually believe the Twin Towers both fell in EXACTLY the same way because of the planes? Does he not understand explosives? This guy is smart,but he's a phony,a gate keeper,"Controlled opposition"Hey Noam,its easy for people running operations like this to "keep secrets"--Its called INTIMIDATION. If someone tells you they're going to "Kill your family" if you talk,or you KNOW this will happen,you'll keep your mouth shut.
mrbrianmccarthy 6 months ago
@mrbrianmccarthy i feel your pain...i thought this man would have the balls to say wats on his mind... i honestly dont believe this man believes what he is saying tho... im sure he was paid a long time ago to shut his face...
bmw200000 5 months ago
@bmw200000 Or threatened.
mrbrianmccarthy 5 months ago
@mrbrianmccarthy And to give Noam some credit it's credible that had he called for 911 and JFK truth he'd perhaps be with Abraham Martin and John right now.
ecsredeye 4 months ago
@ecsredeye Here's the thing though. Chomsky claims that he has made a career of fundamentally challenging power and speaking the truth, consequences be damned. His supposed bravery is his calling card. And, its not only this. Its JFK too. He doesn't just deny a conspiracy. With JFK, he goes out of his way to expand upon the denial and promote his views on the matter.
GenSButler 4 months ago
@GenSButler You're right. It's true though that in this country if one gets out in front and is effective bad things seem to happen Fred Hampton, Mark Clark, MLK, Malcolm X, JFK, Joe Hill, Sacco, Vanzeti. ( I put JFK in there because he apparently stopped the US military from going directly into Cuba, challenged the CIA, is said to have been ready to wind down the Vietnam adventure, etc. and he met a gruesome end certainly at the hands of a conspiracy.)
ecsredeye 4 months ago
you gentiles are Pathetic Always take some jew and make him god or Messiah just like the jesus and kerl marx and know this noam chomsky did you ever wondering why is this all your biggst gods and messiah and your intellectuals from right and left are jewish and you wonder how we the jews call are self the chosen people dont diss this
comment in 100 yreas from know your kids will things that holly histroy just like your Fathers Though't even the arebs belive in a jewish idea of god
ehudnold9 6 months ago
@ehudnold9 You sir are an imbecile.
666deadman1988 5 months ago
@dog4company Sending some extremists over on a secret mission is one thing, hiring people to rig the towers with explosives and giving orders to launch a rocket at the pentagon, etc are much harder to cover up, especially in a country like america where people aren't loyal extremists who don't talk.
JessAtlas 6 months ago
@dog4company You're assessing the likelihood of 2 different things leaking. One is a group of muslim extremists who sent a few men to america to hijack planes. The other is a massive government cover-up in which the bush administration, the NYC police department, the pentagon, the media, the photographers of the sagging trusses, popular mechanics, the cia, the fbi, american airlines, the FAA and those who actually detonated the buildings were all involved.
JessAtlas 6 months ago
not impressed by this man's words on this occasion
gavseven 6 months ago
not worth listening to... I used to kinda respect this man until these statements.
shovelpig 6 months ago
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we are anonymous, we declare war on the corrupted system, join the plan to get your freedom and rights back. you are a human being, your life has value. we are anonymous, we are legion, expect us!
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Odiggidy 6 months ago
@mmtot your "largest military industrial intelligence complex with the greatest budget in the history of the world" just took a decade to find one dude hidden in a "ally" country. You overstate its powers.
evwarsh 6 months ago
ps - i just did a HUGE long and loud fart. Im quite pleased, and when finished typing this, will attempt to pull the covers up over my gf's head. i think the loud fart may have tipped her off to my little conspiracy, tho
jeebersjumpincryst 6 months ago
The largest military industrial intelligence complex with the greatest budget in the history of the world couldn't pull it off, but a bunch of douchebags from a cave in afghanistan could? Ha this guy is a Joke, an intellectual intellectual prostitute, nothing more. The debate is over, it's scientifically empirical 9/11 was an inside job, and people gobble up this twit's rambling about left/right bla bla bla....................
mmtot 6 months ago
@mmtot *smiles* u really like the douche word a lot. Im glad the debate is all settled for you, and that everything is all scientifically empirically shipshape. What are you going to do now though? Wheres the next step to, when the debate is all over?
jeebersjumpincryst 6 months ago
@jeebersjumpincryst Yeah, douche is where it's at. I dunno? lets all just drink beer, watch more baseball and worship celebrities while the world goes to hell in a hand basket, shall we?
mmtot 6 months ago
@mmtot lol douche being where its at. too true. Im asking YOU what the plan is. i dunno what the plan is - I thought you'd have an idea...?
jeebersjumpincryst 6 months ago
@jeebersjumpincryst 100 million armed Americans taking back washington? Sounds good to me.
mmtot 6 months ago
@mmtot thatd prolly work, but sounds a little dangerous and potentially violent. why not use the voting system, and so everyone, all the americans that is, knows who to vote for, just show them the scientific empirical evidence that 911 was done by the evil govt. and have everyone vote in a party that is not evil. the greenies, or nazi's, or whoever. i dont live there so i dont know much about whats availiable.
jeebersjumpincryst 6 months ago
i cant believe that anyone seriously believes its a conspiracy. it will be forgotten, like jfk one, when the next big thing happens.
i guess it gives lots of people a hobby and a sense of community and feeling of purpose though, so not so bad a thing to believe, as long as nobody is hurting others or themselves, which no one seems to be doing.
jeebersjumpincryst 6 months ago
@jeebersjumpincryst Ha, of course it was a "conspiracy." Why don't you look up the defintion of the word douche.
mmtot 6 months ago
would be realy interesting to know, was he bribed to talk about 9/11 avoiding the facts or he realy doesnt believe that it was not al kaida...
what is happening with this world if even realy smart people cant realize that they are being insolently mislead.
Kpac21c 6 months ago
who is this mossad cooperator douchebag?
bellijklh 6 months ago
i love noam chomsky, and typically agree with what he has to say. but in this case, it seems he had too much info to sift through with too many other priorities. his reasonable doubt hindered his analysis of what has become a substantially questionable occurrence, and if you do enough reading, you'll find more than enough reasons to question.
i've got like 50 more of these little factoids, but i feel like i've probably beaten this dead horse enough.
thejustineaster 6 months ago
Late July 2001: The US and UN ignore warnings from the Taliban foreign minister that bin Laden is planning an imminent huge attack on US soil. The FBI and CIA also fail to take seriously warnings that Islamic fundamentalists have enrolled in flight schools across the US. [Independent, 9/7/02]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
July 24, 2001: Larry Silverstein's $3.2 billion 99-year lease of the WTC is finalized. Silverstein hopes to win $7 billion in insurance from the destruction of the WTC towers. [NY Times, 02/16/03, Newsday, 09/25/02]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
July 10, 2001: A Phoenix FBI agent sends a memorandum warning about Middle Eastern men taking flight lessons. He suspects bin Laden's followers and recommends a national program to check visas of suspicious flight-school students. The memo is sent to two FBI counter-terrorism offices, but no action is taken. [New York Times, 5/21/02] Vice President Cheney says in May 2002 that he opposes releasing this memo to congressional leaders or to the media and public. [CNN, 5/20/02]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
June 28, 2001: CIA Director George J. Tenet has been "nearly frantic" with concern. A written intelligence summary for Condoleezza Rice says: "It is highly likely that a significant al Qaeda attack is in the near future, within several weeks." Rice will later claim that everyone was taken by complete surprise by the 9/11 attack. By late summer, one senior political appointee says, Tenet had repeated this threat "so often that people got tired of hearing it." [Washington Post, 5/17/02]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
May 2001: The US introduces "Visa Express" program allowing any Saudi Arabian to obtain visas through their travel agent instead of appearing at a consulate in person. [US News and World Report, 12/12/01] Five hijackers use Visa Express to enter the US. [Congressional Intelligence Committee, 9/20/02]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
Jan 2001: After the elections, US intelligence agencies are told to “back off” investigating the bin Ladens and Saudi royals. There have always been constraints on investigating Saudis. [BBC, 11/6/01]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
2000 – 2001: The military conducts exercises simulating what the White House later says is unimaginable: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties. One imagined target is the WTC. [USA Today, 4/19/04] Another is the Pentagon. [Military District of Washington (Army), 11/3/00]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
1996-2001: Federal authorities have known for years that suspected terrorists with ties to bin Laden were receiving flight training at schools in the US and abroad. One convicted terrorist confessed that his planned role in a terror attack was to crash a plane into CIA headquarters. [Washington Post, 9/23/01]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
1996: The Saudi Arabian government is financially supporting Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda and other extremist groups. After 9/11, the Bush Administration chooses not to confront the Saudi leadership over its support of terror organizations and its refusal to help in the investigation. [New Yorker, 10/22/01]
instead we invade iraq.
thejustineaster 6 months ago
1994: Two attacks take place which involve hijacking planes to crash them into buildings, including one by an Islamic militant group. In a third attack, a lone pilot crashes a plane at the White House. Yet after Sept. 11, over and over aviation and security officials say they are shocked that terrorists could have hijacked airliners and crashed them into landmark buildings. [New York Times, 10/3/01]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
In 2000, NORAD had 67 intercepts. 100% accuracy. On 9/11 they failed 4 times in one day.
[9/11 Commission]
thejustineaster 6 months ago
"According to standard operating procedures, if an FAA flight controller notices anything that suggests possible hijacking, controllers contact their superiors. Within about a minute, the superiors notify NORAD. NORAD then issues the scramble order to the nearest Air Force base that has firefighters on alert. Although interceptions usually occur within 10 or so minutes, in this case 80 or so minutes had elapsed before fighters were even airborne."
why?
thejustineaster 6 months ago
Major General Larry Arnold: “I think if those aircraft had gotten airborne immediately, they could have turned toward Washington, DC, and gone into burner, it is physically possible that they could have gotten over Washington before 9:37, when the Pentagon is hit. Yet according to the 9/11 Commission, the jets are redirected east over the Atlantic Ocean and will be 150 miles from the Pentagon when it is hit (see 9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004]
why i wonder?
thejustineaster 6 months ago
US air control responded to a plane that lost radio contact in 1999 within 5 minutes.
F-16s have a maximum speed of 1,500 mph at high altitude, or 915 mph at sea level, so the three fighters could plausibly travel the 130 miles from Langley Air Force Base to Washington in just minutes.
[CHANT, 1987, PP. 404; ASSOCIATED PRESS, 6/16/2000; USA TODAY, 9/16/2001; WASHINGTON POST, 9/16/2001 ; US AIR FORCE, 10/2007]
so why didn’t they?
thejustineaster 6 months ago
at 4.12 this intellectual giant and alleged ex-zionist says"who knows, who cares" regarding the kennedy assasination and 9/11.Brushing aside all unofficial conflicting "facts" in both incidents. Without question of the proven lack of protocol in any official investigations and hindsight apologies.Presented as a tower of logic and reason over the years by simply stating the obvious,is he a zionist sleeper agent?,is this another conspiracy theory?.two=1 and=3 therefore >>two and two =5<<,(1+3+1).
prince1pal 7 months ago
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Stop doing "VOICE TO SKULL ON INNOCENTS PEOPLE-STOPED-STOPED-STOPE"!!! Something very very wrong with Russians/Ashkenazies/Germans Jews (Mkultra, Kabalah,The Lost Tribe -are run secretly by those power-sharks They are behind everything-thats it!!!) suppresses Mafia that underground-underneath of everything they are behind everything! Silverstien, Kissinger and more are sickos!
sigi9898 7 months ago
Chomsky= TERRORIST. and based on what he is saying here , MUST believe that his audience is a DUMB as they come
Veloce3 7 months ago
@Veloce3 how can u prove he is a terrorist? that is a serious allegation good sir!
munkdo3 7 months ago
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Noam is another phony, bought and paid for gatekeeper on the oligarch's payroll. State sponsored terrorist attacks are one of the oldest tricks in the book. Wake the f*ck up Noam. It truly puzzles me why so many lemmings fawn over this overrated, disinformant.
pmsan29 7 months ago
Necessary illusions.
tehowe 7 months ago
Wow. I post a message to Kook Tarts Big Farts, one that provides a list of scientific references supporting the official account and it gets flagged as spam.
Surely the keepers of the official faith aren't threatened by the public reading their own explanation, are they?
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
Chomsky is presenting a sleight of hand argument. Instead of addressing the evidence that patently rules out a fire collapse hypothesis, he dismisses the argument a priori, saying "who would try such a thing". The fact remains that fire cannot create the building collapses that we saw. So no matter how unlikely a CD may be, a fire collapse can be summarily ruled out. When pressed, NC hides behind "only an expert can interpret the scientific data, which is simply not true.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff exactly. Propaganda has many layers and what this guy's agenda is these days? .... probably gets paid by tax dollars and wants to stay alive. For me he is completely unbelievable, absurd even. 911 was an inside job for whatever reason. If you look at the bank accounts of Cheney and Rubin you will probably soon understand who did benefit
edicccc 7 months ago
@edicccc NC began his career at MIT on a Machine Translation Project. This is the roots of Echelon as well as the NSA's massive automated language recognition systems. He minimizes any secrecy of these projects as a bureaucratic inconvenience that mostly encumbered his ostensibly purist academic pursuits. He also says that it was no concern to MIT (funded by private secretive labs and the military) that he was protesting the vietnam war. The whole thing stinks to me.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@edicccc "911 was an inside job for whatever reason"
Typical Kooktart comment.
~ Doesn't matter if 1000's of leftist scum, the same ppl who hoaxed the JFK CONspiracy are now hoaxing 9/11, DOOD IT (Overactive Imagination)
~ Doesn't matter if 19 Islamofacists DOOD IT
JUST BLAME THE USG AND ANYONE (DOESN'T MATTER AGAIN) YOU JUST HAPPEN TO DISLIKE FOR COMPLETELY IRRATIONALLY REASONS
TAKE YER ANTI-BULLSHIT TABLETS STFU AND STAND DOWN CLOWNY ASS
KookTartsBigFarts1 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff "he dismisses the argument a priori, saying "who would try such a thing"
~ Only in the minds of the leftist scum.bags who ALWAYS exonerates the guilty partys to incriminate 1000's of INNOCENT, DECENT, AND LOYAL AMERICAN'S
~ People who do this kind of treason should be taken out and shot immediately before their disease spreads and infects others
AND THAT's OFFI'CIA'L !
KookTartsBigFarts1 7 months ago
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@KookTartsBigFarts1 No, Kook Tarts Big Farts One, don't listen to me. Read the official explanations and you can find out what detritus it is for yourself. Would you like references?
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation" Thomas W. Eagar and Christopher Musso
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?—Simple Analysis By Zdenek P. Bazant1, Fellow ASCE, and Yong Zhou
NIST NCSTAR 1A: Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@KookTartsBigFarts1 the USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for oil similar to the Nazi's plundering gold all over Europe. The USA is a bankrupt country that can only inflate it's way out of debt. By plundering the oil and artificially inflating the price of oil the USA manages to pay their debts. 911 was an inside job. If you would be a loyal American you would have found out about this already. You are a neocon scumbag, not a real American. You belong to the looters, you are a traitor
edicccc 7 months ago
@edicccc "the USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for oil"
~ Faulty premise, The US pumps the most oil in the world followed by Russia then comes Saudia Arabia. We get oil from dozens of different countries Iraq & Afganistan's oil is no diffrent then the rest. You white flag waving liberal demoratic leftist communistic bums with a yellow streak a mile long running down your back is the reason they attacked us first. They knew they had a inbuilt allie in the US they could count on FUCK YOU TOO!
KookTartsBigFarts1 7 months ago
@KookTartsBigFarts1 why is it a faulty premise?? and why can't you explain without going on a hateful rant?
you got 2 sentences before you started going off
2 out of 3
munkdo3 7 months ago
@munkdo3 "why is it a faulty premise?"
~ WE DIDN'T THEN OR NOW OR IN THE FUTURE NEED IRAQ/AFGANISTAN OIL WE CAN GET IT ELSEWHERE, ALL WE NEED, WITHOUT AN EXPENSIVE WAR ! YOU JFK DO GOODERS NEVER LEARNED WHEN THE RIGHTS OF ONE MAN ARE THREATENED ALL MEN'S RIGHTS ARE IN DANGER WAKE UP SNORY !
"why can't u explain w/out going on a hateful rant?"
~ YOU COMPARED AMERICA WITH NAZI GERMANY BY PLUNDERING OIL, YOU THINK SLOW WITTED GEOGE PULLED OFF 9/11
That make you an incredible spineless idiot
KookTartsBigFarts1 7 months ago
@KookTartsBigFarts1
"you compared america with nazi germany..."
i did no such thing. so u have to find other proof that u think im' a spineless idiot. which is what i think of u
didnt u know mccain and obama both take money from the corporations? what the fuck does it mean to be conservative anymore? and what's wrong with being a do gooder? u have a lot to answer for sir..
munkdo3 7 months ago
i did no such thing...
also, i assume u are a conservative.
didn't you know that both parties take money from corporations? what does it mean to be conservative these days? maybe there should be an option to vote for enron directly. would you take that? so u can cut out the middle man puppet. same goes for obama ofc.
munkdo3 7 months ago
@munkdo3 "what does it mean to be conservative these days?"
Anyone who's under 35 years old who isn't a liberal is probably over 35 and is a conservative
TR
KookTartsBigFarts1 6 months ago
@azez37 Chomsky the Jew knows full well that 9/11 was an inside job
He is a Traitor
DeadJesus100 7 months ago
Doesn't have any significance?!!??!?!
FALLASLEEPworld 7 months ago
I would say that JFK, and 9/11 are of importance. If it is true that these acts were carried out to serve an agenda than exposing the people behind it would entice people to ask more questions of their sources of information which is always good in my opinion. Who cares is coming from a man who knows that wars are carried out, and news is reported that fits a political purpose. Politicians of course are governed by lobby money, and the rich are governed by ambition. I believe it is improtant
Ohrela 7 months ago
"It's diverting people from serious issues [...] even if it's true, who cares? [...] what difference does it make? It's just taking energy away from serious issues [...]" Indeed, even if control was 100% & no evidence of an inside job made it out, 9/11 happened and cannot be reversed. But wars in Afghanistan & Iraq, drone strikes in Pakistan & Yemen were preventable if we as a people with power in numbers shut down the capital and terrified the corporate-military-state beast into paralysis.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty "Indeed, even if control was 100% & no evidence of an inside job made it out, 9/11 happened and cannot be reversed. But wars in Afghanistan & Iraq..."
Any support for the wars you mention are built on the false 911 premise. Without the false premise what happens to the base of support for these horrible wars? It disappears. Conservatives and liberals come together to stop the wars and prosecute the real criminals. No more fake debate about "blowback" vs. "they hate our freedom".
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff Notice the change in pretext for the war in Iraq. Ultimately, nation & democracy building became (& still are) the stated goals. The 9/11 premise evaporated, Powell lost face over his sham evidence for WMDs presented at the UN that was based on a sham informant, yet the war proceeded. OK, so that leaves the 3 other countries. Say 9/11 were an inside job, Iraq makes sense (vast oil reserves), but invading&occupying Afghanistan & drone strikes in Yemen & Pakistan to what end?
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty I don't buy that WMD's or other premises would have meant anything without the trauma-based programming afforded by 911. They didn't just lie about WMD's, they said over and over that they didn't want a new 911 as part of that propaganda. Once we point the finger at the actual culprit, the trauma-based programming backfires and you'll have a populist revolt. Once we point the finger at the actual culprit, the war racqueteers will be on notice.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff Good you don't buy those premises because they meant nothing--all were false. As for in the mainstream, all were accepted as false, except for the WMDs--itself even downplayed in favor of simply freeing Iraq from a despot. For all their "trauma-based programming afforded by 9/11," Americans still favored diplomacy & getting UN backing before going at it alone, this in spite of all the propaganda. Not very reactionary or irrational. Not bad for a supposedly traumatized people.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty So your point is what? That the programming didn't work on everyone for every policy? As I recall, Bush's approval rating went from lowest early term rating in polling history to b/t 90 and 95%. As I recall, 911 remained a talking point for the Iraq venture. As I recall, the lawmakers and pundits closed ranks behind Bush and they get kicked out of the club to this day if they question the official story of 911. As I recall Afghanistan, Homeland Sec and Patriot act all rest on 911
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff You're talking about polls immediately following 9/11. What on earth does this have to do with Iraq in 2003? Fine, 9/11 was a talking point, but that link was dismissed in favor of WMDs. OK, 9/11 was traumatizing & as such remained in play. Still, traumatized Americans, the majority of them, had a very rational conception about how the war should proceed--diplomacy first and preferably with UN backing. That's just not very characteristic of a traumatized people/person.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty "Fine, 9/11 was a talking point, but that link was dismissed in favor of WMDs." No it wasn't. It was carefully paired with the WMD talking point, with careful wording. Polls even showed that that many people mistakenly believed that Hussein had a hand in 911. Would you argue that the deliberate pairing of these talking points had nothing to do with that association? Or that the pairing of these talking points was not to that end?
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff I wasn't arguing either. I was referring to the media where the 9/11 link didn't hold out. Yes, the time it was there in the media it did have an effect: polls indeed did show that a significant number believed the link. So what? The traumatized populace still had a very rational response to all the propagandizing, but that unfortunately wasn't backed up with a mass movement.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty "The traumatized populace still had a very rational response to all the propagandizing" Thank god that so many people only believed that 911 was really an outsider attack. But the entire debate crumbles, the entire base of support for the imperial lunge forward vanishes from every politician, every pundit and every citizen with the false premise itself is outed and destroyed. Every decision maker runs for cover and claims that they were scammed with the rest of the public.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty As I recall, the controversy over Bush's stolen victory all but disappeared after 911. As I recall, the 1.2 trillion missing from the Pentagon budget was wiped from the headlines after 911. As I recall, Bush described 911 as "hitting the trifecta". As I recall, pundits for both parties have gotten outed for saying "what Obama/Bush needs is another terror attack to bring the country together." As I recall, the anti war forces were holding back an Iraq attack b/f 911.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff Bush's stolen election was gone: when the Supreme Court intervened, that was the end of it. 9/11 had nothing to do with that. Bush was certified & was not going to be thrown out of office. All your quotes are meaningless without context. "Hitting the trifecta" could simply mean 2 towers&the Pentagon for all I know, which is what 9/11 was. "What Obama/Bush needs..." could simply be a reference to how pliable people are after attacks, which makes governing easy for the president.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty ""Hitting the trifecta" could simply mean 2 towers&the Pentagon for all I know"
Seriously? Hitting the trifecta refers to a grand victory of extremely rare occurrence.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff Yes, seriously. Try Oxford English Dictionary -- "a run of three wins or grand events." Three is quite obviously pertinent in a TRIfecta. Imagine that.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty Re: trifecta Again, seriously? He's saying that they, the administration, had a great success due to 911. You're grasping at straws.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff You give me a 3-word phrase without context. I can do no more but grasp at straws--the most plausible, parsimonious one, which I did. OK, so it means he "had a great success due to 9/11." Didn't he? His ratings went up, he managed to finesse a pretext to finally get his Iraq invasion. It might sound outrageous, and it is, but it's also true. Doesn't mean he was involved in an inside job.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
Comment removed
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty "Bush's stolen election was gone: when the Supreme Court intervened, that was the end of it."
Do you really believe that? Bush's motorcade was booed through most of his inauguration procession. He remained immensely unpopular and had to even cancel visits to American towns because of spontaneous protest gatherings. This guy would have been lucky to have survived a full term without a galvanizing event to instill the fear of an outsider attack.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff Look, I followed the alternative media. Yes, those protests were there. Separate the mainstream from everything else. Bush was president & nothing was going to change that. The movement was small & having no effect by the time 9/11 happened, the Supreme Court had certified the win, the media moved on (in fact, hardly even touched it to begin with), the mainstream was simply out of it.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty I was very much involved in left activism at the time as well. Federal Marshalls shut down Free Radio Austin the day before the election. Bush's approval was in the toilet. He was a lame duck in his first term, but not after 911. The media moved on? A sizable portion of the population still was saying that he was illegitimate.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff The population is not the mainstream, corporate media. Note that, again, I was referring to the mainstream. He wasn't going to get impeached, de-certified, nothing. The movement wasn't having any effect, unfortunately. It was over.
Yes, until 9/11 there seemed to be nothing going on for him. 9/11 gave him a chance to do many things & make a name for himself. OK, doesn't point to inside job. In fact, it's pretty meaningless as an observation.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty "9/11 gave him a chance to do many things & make a name for himself. OK, doesn't point to inside job."
You started out by saying something different. You started by minimizing the impact of 911. Now you're saying, "okay, 911 was big for the pres, but not proof of an inside job."
The point is that 911 was the necessary galvanizing event spelled out in the PNAC document, circa 1999, the new Pearl Harbor. Is it final proof if InsJob? No. Point to? Yes.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff What did I say? In all I've posted on here I have never considered what 9/11 meant to Bush as a president because it's irrelevant. And yes, big for the president still says nothing of an inside job. Many presidents have a defining moment. So what? That was Bush's.
You're reaching on the PNAC, & it is in fact irrelevant. We could go back to the NSC document in the late 50s & say exactly what you just said because it fits right in with US hegemony to control Mid East oil.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
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@anarchyliberty "We could go back to the NSC document in the late 50s & say exactly what you just said because it fits right in with US hegemony to control Mid East oil."
Yes, we could, and we could point to the failed mission to blame the USS Liberty on Egypt even as LBJ gave a stand down order (you can hear a recording of it at LBJ library), even as it was Israeli ships that sunk it.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff OK, yes, and there's way more evidence for that event (USS Liberty) than "we heard explosives"-type accounts & other coincidences, including that it's actually admitted to by both governments, though the motivation they give (that it was just in error) remains doubtful. My point was simply that it's all speculative & far-fetched in pointing to an inside job. It's coincidences on top of coincidences on top of speculation on top of mystery/unexplained phenomena. Wasted energy.
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty "OK, yes, and there's way more evidence for that event (USS Liberty) than "we heard explosives"-type accounts & other coincidences"
As a scientist, you know that anyone who withholds evidence contradictory to a predetermined conclusion is not trusted by their scientific peers. We're talking about hundreds of witnesses who heard explosions. Their accounts were completely ignored, often classified.
nealkassanoff 7 months ago
@nealkassanoff What does "contradictory to a predetermined conclusion" even mean? As a scientist (don't even claim to be that), I try not to have predetermined conclusions. That wouldn't be considered proper scientific procedure. Sure, they aren't to be trusted. Therefore, we say that anything beyond the actual withholding is deliberate? We speculate on their motives & claim that speculation as fact or proof of something far greater? Echoing your statements, "What happened to Occam's Razor?"
anarchyliberty 7 months ago
@anarchyliberty If you have hundreds of witnesses that heard explosions (many before the collapses) and you omit or even classify every single one those testimonies, you are omitting evidence that is contradictory to the fire collapse hypothesis. If you have scores of witnesses who saw molten metal and you omit every single one of them, you are omitting evidence that is contradictory to...
nealkassanoff 7 months ago