Dr Drew Pinsky denounces Anti-gay reparative therapy - Pt 2 of 2

[billbenblue]

Ha ha ha, it's funny watching Anderson and listening to him talk. It's as if he skirting some kind of boundary and then suddenly pulling himself back. In other words, he's indirectly asking Drew about his own homosexuality. LOL Anderson, buddy, I love ya!

[buffalowingmediabias]

You must be a tons of fun at parties. The semantics police is here! LOL Clearly, there's no solid evidence of a gay gene. Clearly, Dr. Drew and other peers have encountered gays with common traumatic childhood experiences (studies have shown this as well). Clearly I, and others, have met such gays. Clearly, from all of this, it is not illogical to conclude that homosexuality is not biological in every case. Clearly, I'm not claiming anything is 100%, and I don't give a rat's ass if you agree.

[buffalowingmediabias]

I have heard Dr. Drew talk out of both sides of his mouth on this issue. He has stated on the radio that people become (or turn, whatever you want to call it) gay due to a traumatic experience early life, just like some women become ho's due to sexual abuse during childhood. Then he turns around and claims it's biological. A lot of gay people I have met have mommy or daddy issues. Clearly it is not, at least not fully, biological. So then, how can you blame anyone for trying to change it?

[waori]

@buffalowingmediabias "Clearly it is not, at least not fully, biological" and your evidence for that is personal experience? It definitely isn't clear at all.

[buffalowingmediabias]

@waori As I said, Dr. Drew agrees with that point. Are you going to imply he's gay too. LOL What a shocker, you went with the "everyone is gay" canned response. In the 90's, some scientists claimed to have discovered the "gay gene". All of a sudden, they didn't talk about it anymore. That's because no one can prove it. We just assume no one would want to be gay on purpose since most people find the concept of homosexuality repulsive, however early trauma can cause weird behavior in people.

[waori]

@buffalowingmediabias What...? I think you were looking so hard for a canned response that you found one that didn't exist. I was asking what evidence you have that it is "clearly... not fully, biological" because the only evidence you provided was having met a lot of gay people with "mommy and daddy issues" ie. your personal experience of gay people. That's not good evidence and neither is an appeal to authority, I don't consider Dr Drew the final authority. The real answer is "we don't know".

[buffalowingmediabias]

@waori Yeah genius, we don't know, hence my statement "clearly it is NOT FULLY, biological". Meaning, it could be one or the other. Talk about finding something that didn't exist. And sorry, I din't know only gay-rights activist were allowed to use anecdotal evidence. The rest of us have to produce reports and letters of reference LOL. This subject has long been studied, no clear result has been produced. But what is clear is that early trauma affects a person's future behavior, Google it.

[waori]

@buffalowingmediabias We don't know means that we don't know, it doesn't mean it's clearly not one thing. It could end up being fully biological but at the moment... we don't know. Unless you have evidence which proves it can't be fully biological then you can't make the claim you're making. I never say gay rights activists could use anecdotal evidence that's a strawman argument. "Early trauma affects a person's future behaviour", obviously, but you haven't proven it can cause homosexuality.

[buffalowingmediabias]

@waori I always like talking to the guy who comes to youtube and starts using "straw man" and "red herring", because arguing about how to argue is so much more fun than actually arguing. LMAO And actually, in my opinion, bringing up the terms like "straw man" and "red herring" is in itself a red herring. My claim is that it is not completely biological. Scientific uncertainty on a subject doesn't deprive one of an opinion on it (see big bang theory, let me guess red herring? LMAO)

[waori]

@buffalowingmediabias It's not arguing about how to argue, it's arguing that your argument is fallacious. Using those terms is the most efficient way of explaining why you're wrong in a 500 character limit. "Scientific uncertainty on a subject doesn't deprive one of an opinion on it", no but it means that if your opinion is one of certainty then it's one you hold without sufficient evidence. Don't state your opinion as fact when it isn't.

[Imakecents]

Yeah, right, homosexuality is normal. This is what passes for psychology and psychiatry today, but these are usually the same people that will knock people's religious views, especially christianity unfortunately. Its the same junk that in satanic book which say, so whatever makes you feel good basically. This is the end times baby, that's why the world is so screwed up. We got the mainstream news media that like to feed the nonsense to the gullible.

[TheOneAndOnly2020]

This interview just gave me a lot more respect for Dr. Drew. Seems like he knows what he's talking about after all, and isn't just some fake TV Dr.

[TheOneAndOnly2020]

WellDUH. All these christians who thought it was a disorder I just feel sorry for because they have been taught by their ignorant parents something immoral in itself, telling someone that their true nature is a sin and they must change. It just sounds so cruel, but they can't see that apparently. And they believe this because it's written in a book eons ago BY MEN FROM THAT TIME. if you don't think they would have mixed their own interpretations in by accident or otherwise, you are just ignorant

[GrassValleyGreg]

Can anyone explain to me why someone would CHOOSE cock and balls over T&A, all for the reward of being treated like a second class citizen? I thought not...

[SolidMike84]

@GrassValleyGreg

So then you CHOOSE to be straight?

[GrassValleyGreg]

@SolidMike84

No- that's exactly my point. It's not a choice at all. I merely AM straight.

[SolidMike84]

@GrassValleyGreg

Ah, my bad

[morticianotrefantez]

Wow!

[1991maulwurf]

Amerikaner hahahaha :D :D :D

[Idrivethe405]

One of the only documented cases where two silver foxes were in the same place

[chrishasaclue]

I honestly don't think people are born gay. I think its the house hold and the trauma they went through in life that turns them to that. I also don't really think its much of a choice either.

[sablemase]

@chrishasaclue Is this from personal experience?

[chrishasaclue]

@sablemase It boggles my mind as to why you would even ask that, but if your just simply curious and not being a little smart ass then, no its not. But ive come across people who were and from what i saw and heard they had some really weird and fucked up shit going on in their household.

[AtheistTower]

@IrrelevantNewsStuff

Thanks for reminding me to reply, have been doing exams for the last two weeks.

[Rudo122]

@athesisttower sorry bro I think you lost that debate.

[JeniusRetard]

Funny: Christians believe homosexuality is immoral. Christians believe homosexuality is a psychological disorder. Ergo, Christians believe that schizophrenia, which is TREMENDOUSLY hereditary, is immoral. You can go to "hell" making no choice whatever in the matter. What a swell God! :)

[AtheistTower]

@JeniusRetard

Atheists believe homosexuality is immoral, that pretty much smashes your 'purely religious objection' dogma on the head. Homosexuality has both psychological and physiological/genetic predisposition-based roots, that doesn't justify the actions of individuals inclined towards homosexual tendencies anymore than heterosexuality justifies a polygamous or promiscuous lifestyle.

[amarkanable]

@AtheistTower, I dont know any atheists personally and haven't even read much by people claiming to be atheist who call homosexuality "immoral", of course some exist but I'm thinking a small minority of atheists in North America or Europe think that way. And, I'm not exactly sure what the atheist objection to it could be if it's an activity done between consenting adults who take the appropriate safety precautions.

[AtheistTower]

@amarkanable

You know the prime minister of Australia? She's an atheist and rejected redefining marriage to encompass homosexuality.

[amarkanable]

@AtheistTower But is she on the record anywhere of calling homosexuality "immoral"??? You're using the same simple-minded logic that some people on the pro same-sex marriage side use that anyone who opposes them must believe any homosexual relationship is immoral. Yes there are some against same sex marriage because they believe homosexuality is immoral but that is not the entire side.

[TheOneAndOnly2020]

@amarkanable Well, it certainly seems to be a lot of it, on the outside looking in anyway.

[amarkanable]

@TheOneAndOnly2020 What's a lot of what? Sorry not following.

[TheOneAndOnly2020]

@amarkanable I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. What I mean is, the attitude of gays choosing to be gay "in their sinful ways" and the idea of it being a psychological disorder, seems to be the prevailing idea among christians today. Of course there are exceptions, but they seem to be the minority. As I said, this is what I have felt looking from the outside in.

[amarkanable]

@TheOneAndOnly20 I know Christians widely believe such things the debate was with @AtheistTower who was also claiming that atheists believe homosexuality is immoral, and then used the atheist PM of Australia being opposed to same sex marriage as proof that this is somehow a mainstream atheist opinion (Opposition to SSM does not automatically equal believing homosexuality is immoral).I haven't found evidence she uses "moral" arguments and apparently neither can AtheistTower.

[TheOneAndOnly2020]

@amarkanable Oh. I would have to agree with you then on that one.

[AtheistTower]

@JeniusRetard

Actually you completely missed what was defined as 'immoral' here, not the psychological inherency but how one lives as a response to it: homosexuality and homosexuals are not the same thing. Logical fallacy right there.

[AtheistTower]

APA defined homosexuality as a mental disorder once too actually.

[lgbtTV4]

@AtheistTower

In their defense, it was based on science of the time. Unlike opinions from religion, you can reason with the APA. They changed their opinion in 1973 after seeing that:

1) Existing studies were invalid because gays were recruited from psychiatrists and hospitals so course the gay subjects were sicker!

2) Most problems came from societal disapproval, just like the obese and minorities having low self-esteem. Gays in affirming environments had no higher rates of mental illness.

[AtheistTower]

@lgbtTV4

"it was based on science of the time" no it wasn't, I don't think you understand how the APA works do you? It's based purely on the subjective concept of abnormality; it doesn't change the fact that homosexuality is still abnormal statistically speaking - that's a fact.

[lgbtTV4]

@AtheistTower wrote "I don't think you understand how the APA works do you?"

Actually, I do. I did graduate work in sexuality, and some of my research had to do with the depathologization of homosexuality. I don't think you know how medical research works, which is my current field. The concept may be subjective, but good science still needs controls. So no matter how subjective, the criteria would still have to apply equally to the controls, which are heterosexuals. (continued)

[lgbtTV4]

@AtheistTower (cont) I've analyzed some gay studies from the 1920s-1960s. Have you? And most were scientifically sound for the time. Criteria that were applied to gays were also applied to heteros. So it didn't matter if the criteria were bad. Most problems came from selection bias. This is fully documented by the APA. What you don't understand is the difference between Research Design (my field) and Criteria Selection. Biostatistics really didn't mature until the 70's.

that's a fact.

[AtheistTower]

@lgbtTV4

Sorry I forgot to reply to this. Actually I'm a biochemist graduate who's done psychology and neuroscience on the side so I do know what I'm talking about. Studies indicate that homosexuals are often simply (for gays) males with female sexual neurological morphism i.e. female brains. So by that definition it's an abnormality; it's like me being born with three hands.

[bastardfingers]

@AtheistTower Please tell me you're not employed in any scientific capacity.

[AtheistTower]

@bastardfingers

I teach science and do research, I won't be talking about homosexuals unless it's brought up, in which case I will give my scientific opinion.

[rextrek]

lets have treatments to change Heteros to GAY .....!!!

[BlueShreveport]

@rextrek That already exists, it's called a 6 pack.

[espeonforever8]

id pound the shit out of anderson.

[johndebbra]

are republicans purposely sabotaging their own party by having people like this run

[lgbtTV4]

@johndebbra Sadly, "reparative" therapy is supported by a lot of conservatives so this may actually help her win the GOP nomination. However, Bachmann is turning out to be pretty stupid, just like the two other Tea Party women, Sarah Palin and Christine "I'm not a witch" OtDonnell. Instead of shutting up, she's been saying moronic things about slavery and American history that are clearly wrong. And she recently said that her (in)ability to perform won't affect her presidency. WHAT?!?

[tazuya21]

what does lgbt stand for?

[0kiccc0]

@tazuya21

lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender :-)

hope that helps

[lgbtTV4]

@tazuya21 "LGBT" means "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender." It was originally "GLBT," but activists put females ("lesbian") first to send a message for gender equality.  Many places still use "GLBT." Adding "transgender" only occurred in the last 10 or so years. Before that, some gays felt that transgender belonged in a separate category. In fact, some gays felt that they were an embarrassment and fulfilled gay stereotypes. A recent change is the addition of "Queer" forming "LGBTQ."

[canaanballard]

@lgbtTV4 The addition of "Queer"? Are you serious?

[lgbtTV4]

@canaanballard wrote

> The addition of "Queer"? Are you serious?

Yep. "Queer" was first used by activists as a term of empowerment by taking it away from homophobes, much like some blacks use "nigger." By the 90's, it gained enough respectability for colleges to offer "Queer Studies" and "Queer Cinema." I refuse to use "queer," just like most blacks refuse to use "nigger."

Google "lgbtq" to see examples.