Finkelstein always sites Morris as saying. "The chief motor of Arab antagonism to Zionism was the fear of territorial dispossession and displacement". Then Morris wrote "1948" and claimed that is was Arab antisemitism and an Arab Jihad that became the "The chief motor of Arab antagonism to Zionism". Morris did change his tune and Finkelstein is correct in saying that no new evidence was provided.
Very impressive discussion on trying to arrive at the truth. Most people have their minds already made up, so this discussion is somewhat of an academic exercise at this point. Best line of the video was when Finkelstein was called out for basing his books on Morris's books. See footnotes of Finkelstein's books as evidence. Did anyone notice how Finkelstein became overly emotional and tried to interrupt Morris after this?
fuck all debates! it's time for action! you can't claim the ownership of a land based on a book that says the earth is flat and it doesn't move! fuck israel! 1947 borders for palestine!
@beardedcollie39 You're a joke. Your ad hominem attacks are worthless. You can't put settlers on the land you take, and claim that you took the land for security. Finkelstein's comment about using 'security' as a way to expand into all of Europe was spot-on. Hitler did use that as an excuse. And no amount of name-calling from you will change that fact.
I like Benny Morris; he's a great historian and here he shows characteristic Israeli bluntness tempered by compassion. Finkelstein is a gadfly and I'm glad he's around but he's really out of his depth here.
@akkafietje Well thanks for proving your idiocy to the world. Your so sad. I have to give you names for inventors but you can simply assert every Jew in the world is some sort of great inventor. Yes there were scientists you cretin, you're free to research. I'm sorry Judaism lacks great scientists.
"The Camera was invented by a Muslim Astronomer/Physicist/Mathematician Alhazen."
Normal answers. Wow you're so immature it's not even funny. Grow a freaking pair, learn something then talk to me.
@akkafietje For one, your weak attempts at attacking me personally are far from provocative and have no effect. It just shows a typical Jew/Zionist.
Secondly, There are many inventions or concepts of inventions that wouldn't exist had it not been for Muslims. You base all inventions on Nobel prizes which is like saying our ancestors never created fire because they didn't get a Nobel prize for it.
Just shows what a low I.Q. you possess and how simple minded you are for simpleton assumptions.
@akkafietje Your reference to hijacking is relevant how?
I'm living in Switzerland as a student and I'm very well off thank you. How is it bordering Palestine with plenty of water while the people behind the barrier are suffering?
Please your propaganda has no place here. Your idolization of "intellect" is irrelevant here. But it's so common among Zionists to praise their kin for their achievements, despite the fact they're still fucking terrorists.
@bishyfish225 Now I start to understand, a student on the expenses of the (Christian) western world. That’s why you call yourself an atheist, but tomorrow, if your subsidy stops, you are again a Muslim. “Zionists to praise their kin for their achievements” It are only facts that every one can find that’s not a discussion.
The Jews are or you like it or not the most intelligent people on earth, that’s why Jahuwe gave them the responsibility about his holy book.
@akkafietje Hahaha , whatever helps you sleep at night you pathetic little rodent. Can't accept the fact that I'm an atheist purely out of choice and belief? You have to resort to attacks on Islam to make a point? Ok Jews are smart. What does that prove? Zionists aren't terrorists? Jews don't equal Zionists you imbecile.
@bishyfish225 On all points you lost, from camera obscura till hijacking you was wrong. Trying to lie over the place of living ( what I have seen the first day in your profile). May be even an your tube assignment is made by some body else. Swiss will be very happy which such a piece of barbaric arab.
@akkafietje Btw lie about where I live? You continue to make a fool out of yourself you silly little cretin. You asked me my nationality and I stated it. You never asked me where I live.
Switzerland is very happy with a law abiding citizen such as myself. It can't be helped you avoid paying taxes in your country because you're so cheap.
but seriously continue .. you're cracking me up soooo much!!!
@akkafietje the camera obscura "was one of the inventions that led to photography" :P
lol! :D I guess the Jews then came in and took credit for that yeah?
"lick your wounds". Where the fuck do you learn such ridiculous phrases. Why don't you eat a dick and learn some proper attacks if you want to keep projecting belittlements onto me.
pfft .. wounds .. man I can imagine you must be some skinny ass ugly piece of rotten shit so you have to make yourself sound superior :P so sad..
@akkafietje And you base the Jewish inventions all on the ones that went to Israel? Prove to me every Jewish invention was based in Israel. My god you're such an idiot. Your so blinded by your love for your country you gain gratification by belittling other peoples' nations.
Muslims only invented hijacking? Lets see ...
"In 1973, the Nixon Administration ordered the discontinuance by the CIA of the use of hijacking as a covert action weapon against the Castro regime"
@akkafietje Palestine was never a county. Typical Zionist argument. So basically the people inhabiting the area are 'fake', and don't deserve basic human rights. Hence, we can expel them, annex their land and brutally massacre the ones who oppose our occupation.
The Arab world isn't instrumental to use Palestine as a way through to getting rid of Israel. That's a childish argument. The Arab world and many others want Zionism gone.
@akkafietje Wow, how old are you? Are you bloody serious mate?! Proper houses? What fantasy do you live in. The harboring countries like Syria and Jordan can magically provide "proper" houses for approximately 4 million refugees? Please get real.
Israel gave them Gaza? Well how nice. Why is it barred off from the rest of the world? Why do they have no freedom. Why are supplies denied from reaching those in need?Why are houses demolished by the thousands? Why can't they be one state,not divided
@akkafietje Never a country? America was never a country... but I see your point. It's ok then to decimate the indigenous population and take their land. Very reasonable argument.
Palestinians never left hoping to destroy anyone. Zionists flooded their country, were gaining their land (through terrorist tactics, e.g. Irgun), and the Arab countries decided to protect and oppose the threat. This started with Zionists/
Hated by Arab world? So all the support they get from Arabs means...?
@bishyfish225 (A) “Never a country” a country is a area with a government, and a capitol. (Trans) Jordan allowed the palestines to live in that province.
That capitol = Amman. The government is in Amman too the leader was Hussein.
Would you have to any thing to say against this Yes or No.
The Jews legally entered the country granted by the U.N. in 1948 Yes or No
@akkafietje You haven't answered my question. If it wasn't a country, does that mean it's OK to kick out the people residing on that land. The argument "never a country" holds no water. Jordan, and what Israel now holds was one land. It's funny you should mention the UN. Who gave them the right to designate someone's land to another people? They don't have the right to "grant" without consent. If you place so much power in their hands, why isn't Israel abiding by their resolutions?
@bishyfish225 What I say: Palestine has never been a country,
because there was no capitol, no government, no army no president. Palestine was a (trans) Jordan province.
The idea that Hussein them ever would have given an independents land is ridicules for a Muslim country. If you don’t agree with an official U.N. decision, you don’t have to complain to me. All the Complains from Israel to the U.N. today, are denied, because of the united Muslim countries !
@akkafietje The idea is ridiculous? And what do you have to prove that. Again, what's your point. Fine they had no government, army, etc. It was a different society than those of our time. Again: does that give warrant to take their land simply because we think we'll do better with it? Are the live's of Israelis worth more?
This conspiracy that UN is run by a group of Muslim countries is another hysteria. America with its veto power makes the UN a joke, so no I don't agree with them.
@akkafietje Your argument could not be more faulty. This is hilarious.
"Since Hamas captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit back in 2006, his plight has been etched into the nation's conscience. Israelis have pressured the government to offer thousands of Palestinians in exchange for Shalit."
This only shows that Israel has thousands of Palestinian prisoners they detain and torture without trial. Many of them children and women imprisoned for petty crimes. They're worth nothing to Israel.
@akkafietje Think before you post, please. The public wants their fellow Israelis back. The government has to act under pressure. You think if Palestine asked for all their dead and imprisoned back they'd get them?
Zionism is a supremacist way of thinking. You're free to watch this and see what Israelis tend to think of Palestinians to justify their atrocities.
give me one reason why should they return this terrorists.
As Palestine, they insult them self by asking 1000 prisoners for only 1 Israeli, they acknowledge the superiority of Israel. BTW why is it that Libya rebels prayed US and EU to help them, inspite of 500 million Muslims cowards are around
@akkafietje Terrorists? As in children and women (and men) who never committed a crime in their entire lives? People taken to prison and tortured without reason? Those terrorists?
As for the rest of your post, please improve your English because I have no idea what you're getting at. Libya? Muslims? How's that relevant again? And Israel asked for their 1 soldier back in return for 1000 soldiers. So how's that Palestine insulting itself? It's Israel that humiliates Palestine daily.
@akkafietje "official U.N. decision" -- that's just hilarious. Let me tell you this. The idea that Israel ever wants peace is an absolute joke. Every condition they demand is at a gain for them and a loss for Palestine. They ask Palestine to recognize them but they never recognize the democratically elected bodies governing Palestine. Israel is a state that bitches and looks to America to cuddle it with its protective vetoes. Go take your Muslim conspiracy theory to another page.
@bishyfish225 "official U.N. decision" is that true or false ? give first an answer !!
They have given Gaza for peace yes or no
Did they get rest and peace no !
The Hamas is a terrorist group, why did the leaders of the Palestine’s lock them up in camps. They receive yearly a billion dollar. Give me an example of a resolution vetoes by Us
Please give clear answers instead of only complaining
@akkafietje "Washington used its veto 32 times to shield Israel from critical draft resolutions between 1972 and 1997" -- that's just a taste. You're free to search the dozens more they've utilized to their advantage.
I'm sorry you're English is weak. In case you haven't notice from my response, NO, no "U.N. decision" is an official one as I reiterate, it doesn't have the right to govern someone else's land.
No Gaza never got peace, hence the ongoing occupation, you cretin.
@akkafietje "On November 11, 2006, the United States used its veto to prevent the adoption of a U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Israeli military operations in the Gaza Strip. Ten countries supported the resolution, with four countries - The United Kingdom, Denmark, Japan and Slovakia abstaining"
You're free to use the world wide web to answer your pointless questions.
Did they "give" Gaza? I guess they gave land with no freedoms and little resources. How convenient.
@akkafietje What about the Israeli children taught to hate Palestinians with all their hearts. To detest them and think of them as animals no worthy of life on this planet? Double standards much? And catapults? Where do your hear these things? I'm sure you're aware your precious IDF wreaks havoc on Palestine. They shoot women and children randomly. You are aware of all this yes? If you were armed you wouldn't accept getting hit by a stone? I guess a bullet in return for the petty crime is fair.
@akkafietje What's really anti-Semitic is Zionism. That's fact. Just look at your years of twisted mentality. There's even a quote by one of your prime ministers commenting on what 'degenerates' the Palestinians are. As if they're animals no worth living.
Israeli children are taught racism and hatred, that's undeniable. Palestinians are taught similar concepts against the Israelis but I wonder why. I wonder what you'd feel seeing so many people around you die and suffer daily.
@akkafietje Kids develop sick psychological problems because of the disgusting crimes committed by Israel.
catapults? I think you mean slingshots? We aren't in the medieval ages mate. You can say they catapult stones from slingshots, that would make sense. And again, is that really dangerous? You amuse me good sir.
I support those people because they're deprived, humiliated and tortured by monsters. But ya pappy Israel can keep "spanking" until the day they burn in hell. Barbarians.
@akkafietje The Palestinian authority is nothing but a subservient organization to Israel's will. And no, they didn't place them there. Israelis did. Israelis are the ones building barriers around them and depriving them of essentials or aid.
As far as Libya's case, the story is different. It's civil war for one. In that case, no one should be siding. Especially because you can't simply sympathize with one faction. Rebels may be protesting over nothing. Christian world? Generalize much?
“they didn't place them there. Israelis did” Israel made the camps ? Who is spending the yearly $ 1 billion as a gift by Christians nations to their Muslim enemies. “Rebels may be protesting over nothing” 42 years an idiot as a dictator who bombs his own habitants.
You are talking like a crazy muslim. What's your root
@akkafietje Then again, 42 years building a nation out of scratch, serving his people, etc. What the heck do you know about Qaddafi other than what the biased media wants you to think? Not saying he's great, but the Libya civil war, and I emphasize "civil war" is a completely different topic.
In case you didn't notice, what's left of Palestine is a "camp". Israel spending on their neighbors? Or on their scrooges? Crazy Muslims? well said! Clearly you're a brainwashed simpleton Zionist.
@bishyfish225 “do you know about Qaddafi” He is a mad dog, who terrorizes his own people . No human rights, a terrorist. Every one who support this idiot, I the same !
"what's left of Palestine"
Do you still not acknowledge that they receive $ 1000 million year FROM US + EU, so why do not build houses after 60 years.
Again what is your root ? are you ashame to say it ? I quess your a turk
@akkafietje I know Qaddafi's violation of human rights and the atrocities he has committed on his own people. Is it any different from Israel? Wholesale terrorism vs retail terrorism. What's larger on your scale? I guess it's all the little terrorist organizations and leader in the Zionist measurements.
Palestine receives money? Or the PNA, subservient scrooges to Israel's will. Israel suppresses Palestine in so many ways it's truly remarkable.
@akkafietje Let me go through this step by step. I appreciate you divided your responses into bits.
I don't support Qaddafi, I'm simply supporting certain attacks you've made on him, which are still irrelevant I should add.
Israel doesn't kill its own people. It kills the people around it with excuses evident as lies. Self-defense is the most common pretext for their massacres. Hamas is defending its own people but they're called terrorists. Double standards that is.
@akkafietje You're so keen to know where I'm from well I will tell you. I'm sure you'll attempt deplorable attacks on me based on my ethnicity. I'm Syrian/Canadian and I'm an atheist.
Very convincing? If you're not convinced there are plenty of others you can search! History is factual but I guess 5 years makes it obsolete?
Israel takes away their electricity and other resources you mean. Not to mention they ruined their infrastructure during their years of occupation and raids.
@bishyfish225 “I'm Syrian/Canadian” that’s makes it easier, you have Arab blood, but escaped to Canada to enjoy the fruits of the west.
While your people is killed in Damascus if they asked for democracy." Israel takes away their electricity “ Its Israel who supply them oil for the generators Israel settlers left beautiful farms in Gaza for that..
"really anti-Semitic is Zionism" I wonder if you already know what is anti semitic
@akkafietje I have Arab blood so my arguments are invalid or something? Yes my family were keen for better living conditions. I never said Syria is great and I hope dearly for a change in regime. But ignore your faults and worry about mine why don't you. It's the only good thing Zionists can do. Their weak ad hominem arguments are always bent on attacking the person rather than the valid point s/he makes.
Arabs are semites but I wonder how you'll refute that.
@akkafietje Israel deprives Palestine of electricity among many other things.
watch?v=QdfBylKcHMo
one example right there. Human rights organizations stated these! The only electricity Israel is supplying is the ones they sent into a Palestinian child's genitals during interrogation.
Settlers supplying beautiful farms? You mean the illegal settlements? The ones where they drove out Palestinians and took over their beautiful homes and land.
@akkafietje Sir, I'd like you to take some time out of your schedule and define democracy. For one, there isn't an agreed definition for it. It tends to be your country is a democracy either way. You pick out the faults in others, say yours is better and assert that it's a democracy. Funny thing about that is, for Israel to make such a claim, it's extremely ironical. A state which is based on supremacist ideology and is under apartheid can't be called a democracy. It's simply absurd.
@akkafietje Again, I already agreed Syria was in a crap state. I want things to change. However people fleeing? If you haven't noticed a lot of them stay and support the regime. That's mostly because of propaganda and emergency law depriving them of freedom of speech. Nevertheless, they're not fleeing.
Why are you worrying about Syria right now? The topic is Israel, is it not? I knew announcing my nationality would follow up with a flow of pointless attacks and accusations.
@akkafietje Okay, whatever suits your needs. Belittle others and praise Israel for its inhumanity. I can't debate with a sadistic, brainwashed patriot such as yourself.
@akkafietje Haha, whatever helps you sleep at night. Praise the inhumanity found in Israel. Advocate their atrocities. Support their misconduct. Love the tyranny. Adore the supremacy. Pray for the sadistic IDF soldiers. DO whatever you need to. I can't help those who lack humanity in them.
Democracy my ass. Middle East garbage you say? Mate Middle East shaped our contemporary societies but you wouldn't want to acknowledge that out of your ad hominem attitude.
@akkafietje The PNA gets funded but in case you're too much of an ignoramus to realize, the people working in that party are stooges, working on behalf of Israel and America's interests. Reason why they buy mansions and such instead of aiding their own people.
Hamas is a terrorist group in your eyes. They seem to be freedom fighters in the eyes of others. Even in your case they're only retail terrorism. Israel is wholesale terrorism. The sooner you recognize that, the better off you'll be.
@akkafietje "Stalin was more brutal so the Nazis occupying Russia would be good" was an argument that didnt work with Hitler & its not gonna work with Israel. That even if v accept ur filthy argument. Fact is its not Israel's land & that is enough for a just individual 2 c through all the B.S. Ur arguments r the worst broken record ever & they don't work until u hav 1 living cell in your brain.
Spain? Baghdad? The Jews were second class in both cases during that period of Islamic imperialism. The 1 state solution will just end in another war, especially with the theocratic aspirations of the Arabs.
You have Gaza and the West Bank. Gaza where Israel pulled out all settlers, west bank where they did not. Which is more violent, radical, war torn? Clearly continuing settlements IS the more peaceful option. And that is the number 1 thing that matters, more than so called apartheid or occupation or any of this garbage. Human life of both Israelis and Palestinians. If Israel moves out of west bank, it radicalizes and attacks Israel. And eventually you have another Cast Lead on the West Bank.
Shouldn't have had that little shit in the blue tie. Arabs and Jews live together in one country? What planet does he live on? That is the type of mindless Idealism that leads to massive death in the real world. Notice Morris talks about what would be best and peaceful for both sides. Blue tie kid reveals that he does not care about Israeli or Palestinian lives. He would gladly put radical Arabs and Jews together and watch them kill each other much more just so he can live in lala land.
Israel could have legally annexed the West Bank after it secured it from Jordan after fighting a DEFENSIVE war. It made a mistake not doing it. It took it defensively as any army would do, secure an area where an enemy Army is attacking it from. If Israel simply left West bank to the Arabs they would just attack from it again. If Israel pulled out of the West bank now like it did in Gaza the Arabs there would attack Israel much more. That is 100% security not neurosis.
@Ti1nah You understandably omit Efraim Karsh who speaks from the right (in both senses of that word) in reference to the early Morris, the one that Fink. & Co. misappropriate:
@gregorsamsa613 you obviously have little understanding of nuance or common sense intentional mistakes that a grade-schooler would get. But that goes some way to explaining your allegiance to Benny Morris, and calling anyone who confronts Zionism as anti-semetic. It's usually a tact that displays a general intellectual laziness, or worse, inferiority. So yes, compared to you I am superior. thanks
@mistersumthing You will not find an automatic equation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism under my name. However the two go pretty much hand-in-hand nowadays.
Is your Jew-friendly anti-Zionism another one of your intentional mistakes or just an accidental mistake?
@gregorsamsa613 If you are trying to make the case for Jordan being stolen land from the Zionists based on the San Remo confrence in 1920 you better pack your bags. You joke about running to WIki, well the joke is on you. Even Wikipedia says that Trans-Jordan was exempt from the mandate provisions concerning a Jewish Homeland under the 1915 McMahon Pledge. Anyone who spends 5 minutes on Wiki can debunk your bullshit.
@genYprogressive Ironic that you don't seem to get the joke. Wikipedia is the last place a serious student or scholar would go to. You cite it at your own peril. I will repeat the reference I gave below to substantiate my statement: LECTURE DELIVERED BY ATTORNEY HOWARD GRIEF
AT THE MENAHEM BEGIN HERITAGE CENTER, JERUSALEM. OCTOBER 14, 2009
"ISRAEL’S LEGAL FOUNDATION, BORDERS AND RIGHTS TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW"
@gregorsamsa613 Just because you say the World Court is a Kangaroo Court does not mean that it is. The fact is that the everything Israel does in the occupied territories is illegal. Acquiring land by war is illegal under international law, and the settelements are illegal. IF they do not want rockets fired at them then they should get the fuck of the land that does not belong to them.
@genYprogressive You're right: just because the judges have pouches and hop is no reason to call their court that. The territories in question are in dispute. They never "belonged" to the Arabs. Israel has every right to "settle" Judea and Samaria, land - in terms of 20th C history - that she acquired in a defensive war. It's perfectly legal. The Arab aggressors lost: too bad. Would Israeli evacuation of the disputed land bring about peace? Experience proves the opposite.
@gregorsamsa613 Not one single war Israel was in was a defensive war. And even in 73 the only war Israel did not start not one county or embassador in the UN condemed it, because . Israel started every war with the help of others except 73. You cannot refute that.Occupying the West Bank is not for security, give it up
@genYprogressive Your hashish-inspired vision of ME history is quite special. My only question : How dare you claim that Israel did not also start the '73 war?
What's wrong with you? Are you harbouring Zionist sympathies?
No, my dear, you are quite beyond refutation, living in an impregnable fantasy that is all your own.
@genYprogressive Because that's what happened when they left Gaza? In the real world anywhere Israel leaves will be used to launch a massive attack from. And every Jew and every Arab knows it. The Arabs will run around saying look how weak Israel is they fled from us. Palestinians and the rest of the Arabs openly state they want all of Israel and will take it piece by piece.
@IBeatUpThugs Explain to me how it is even possable for people armed with primative rockets to wipe a nuclear armed superpower from the map as you claim they want to do. This talking point is laughable, they could not do that if they wanted to.
@genYprogressive Thank you for proving my point. It isn't possible. So by your own admission Israeli security measures are effective at protecting Israel and stopping larger war.
What anti-Zionists ask for, end of Gaza blockade, nuclear disarming, withdrawl from West bank, will lead to much bigger weapons being given to Palestinians by Iran and whomever else and better ability to wipe out Israel, which they openly call for. They only have "primitive rockets" because of the Gaza blockade.
@IBeatUpThugs You made no point at all. How is taking civilians and relocating them to settlements in the middle of what they define as a war zone for security? It is not. You have zero facts to stand on.
Look at West Bank before Israel took it. It was used to wage large wars with Israel. Now it isn't.
Israel won the West Bank in a war started by Arabs. Israel tried to sign a peace treaty and define final borders but Arabs refused. Israel could legally annexed the West Bank but didn't cause it didn't give a shit about the West Bank. It's been 30 years. Arabs just want to fight. Recognize Israel, stop talking about destroying it, and Israel would leave
@IBeatUpThugs Wrong on all counts 1. Israel started every single war except 73. 2. Israel has no legal claim to 1 inch of the West Bank. Gaza. or East Jerusalem. That is not my opinion that is the opinion of the highest judicial body in the world, The World Court. They rulled on it in 2004. 3. Every year since the mid 70s the UN has tried to settle the conflict with the 2 state solution and every year the US and Israel vote aginst this. Israel is in the way of peace. Period. End of story.
@genYprogressive Oh yeah. Poorly armed Israel the day after it's independence decided to start a war with 5 Arab countries. ORRRRRR. 5 Arab countries said hey let's go destroy Israel. Yes Israel of course wanted to go to war with Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon etc to win absolutely nothing whatsoever.
Are you retarded? Do you have selective hearing when Arab states and Fakestinians have all continuously have called for the destruction of Israel for 60 years? Which part of that is confusing you?
Israel also decided to recognize the PLO, withdraw from Gaza, gave back land and mostly make peace with Jordan and Egypt.
Concessions by Palestinians ever = 0. It's obvious Palestinians are war mongering dickheads and deserve everything they get. It's obvious you like to sit in your ivory tower egging on terrorists. It's obvious it has nothing whatsoever to do with you and you need to mind your business. Jews do not recognize self-appointed moral judges most of whom have savage histories.
@IBeatUpThugs Israel made 0 concessions at Camp David and Tabba. Arafat and the PLO ceded 60% of the settlements 80% of the settlers. They compromised on East Jerusalem. They gave up in the right of returne. Even though this went beyond what was leagally required of them.
If bullshitting was money you could bail out Wall St. with cash to spare.
@genYprogressive LOL. Wow. Don't even respond again til you cite that you lying sack of shit. Because it's widely known that Israel offered 95% of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and a Palestinians state at camp david. Arafag said "no", no counter-offer and walked out.
Taba Israel offered 97% of the west bank.
No Palestinian ever gave up right of return.
No Palestinian has ever stopped calling for the end of Israel.
Source your shit, cause you can see what I'm saying right on wikipedia. Liar.
@genYprogressive Don't speak to me until you cite what you said above about Arafat's offer. You say Israel made no concessions. I just proved they did and showed a commonly accepted source that verifies what I'm saying. Back up what you said or your a liar.
Israel is not legally required to give up any of the West Bank. In fact Israel is morally obligated not to at this moment, to protect their innocent civilians against people openly devoted to endless warfare and the destruction of Israel.
@IBeatUpThugs How Fucking stupid are you. I just cited the World Court and the UN. The Blockade, The Occupation, and The Settlements are completly illegal under International Law. Yet you could not challange me on the fact that Israel Started every single war except 73 and why are they building Settlements for security.
@IBeatUpThugs FAIL Israel was not poorly armed in 48. Their armed forces were twice the Arab Forces because King Abdullah did not attack. You have never heard of Plan Dhaled in 1947 which was where Israel "secured' their borders by destroying Palestinians villiages within their borders. This along with the massacures, all of this before 1 Arab soldier even set foot on thier land. Israel Started the 48 war.
@gregorsamsa613 actually you did just a few comments below. And the fact that you think nowadays it equates to the same, pretty much summarizes the intellectual level you're working at. Unfortunately ideological perspectives are more important to you than intellectual ones...which is common of fools arguing fools arguments. And by the way, there are numerous anti-zionist jewish groups, including orthodox jews who feel as much, or prominent minds, scholars and writers on the subject. Try reading
@mistersumthing(1) I assume you refer to this comment:"The Palestinians do not want peace because they teach their children to hate Jews and to kill them." This is fact. Have you never watched Palestinian TV's children programs? They mix Sesame Street-like characters with genocidal indoctrination. Visit Palestinian Media Watch and educate yourself. (Continued.)
@gregorsamsa613 actually no, i wasn't referring to that. but then again i don't judge Palestinians by the acts of a few who have been illegally occupied for 60 years. Israel (or supporters) are in no moral position to judge Palestinians. The victim will hate the rapist. The chicken will hate the wolf. That argument you're using is the same response whites had to black nationalism, and history teaches us who was on the wrong side of that argument...
@mistersumthing The acts in question are not of "the few." They are, moreover, representative of the many. In any case, to use the term "illegal" and "occupation" begs the question twice over. There is no occupation and there is no illegality. These statements are based on fact. I understand that a blind partisan such as yourself is impervious to fact.
@gregorsamsa613 you're a nutjob, who knows nothing of the history of the conflict, that much is evident. You should get a life instead of trying to shove your ideological view down everyone else's throat, particularly as it contradicts the basic facts and realities of the situation.
@mistersumthing You evidently know only the history promulgated by the Leftist-Arab axis. Your "facts" and "realities" have been manufactured by a powerful propaganda machine to which too many have fallen victim.
@gregorsamsa613 right, ok. So your youtube comments are more valid than those on the historical record. Israel has broken virtually every UN Resolution it signed on to. The problem with your argument, is that you believe that Jewish people can reclaim a land occupied by others for centuries by expelling them from their homes violently. and your defense is that it's their right by reclaiming 'their heritage'. It's an illogical argument that lacks any common sense - much like your argument overall
@mistersumthing (1) Why no concern for the 850,000 Jews driven out of Arab lands after 1948, Jews who had lived there in some cases for millenia? These Jews were absorbed by Israel. The Arab countries have shirked their responsibility to do the same for political reasons.In effect an exchange of populations took place - smoething that happened many times after World War Two. Ex.: the exchange of Hindu and Muslim populations to create the modern states of India and Pakistan. (Continued)
@gregorsamsa613 There has been a Jewish presence in the land for over 3 millenia. Many Arabs, on the other hand, arrived only in the wake of the modern Zionists, who made the desolate lands and swamps they bought fruitful. - The 1948 partition plan granted a state to the Arabs as well as to the Jews. The Arabs and their Arab confederates rejected it, opting to wage war on the new born state of Israel. The Arabs lost. Population dislocations are a frequent consequence of war. (Continued)
@mistersumthing The 1948 war was initiated by the Arabs. They lost. Population dislocation was a consequence of this loss. The Germans lost WWII. Ethnic Germans consequently faced tranference from adjacent countries back to Germany. The so-called Palestinians already have a Palestinian state. It is called Jordan.
@gregorsamsa613 right, so you want to debate ppl based on your opinion rather than facts? The formation of Israel was based on a decision to re-appropriate land Palestinians were living on to Jews because of crimes committed by Germans. So, they reacted and fought it. But even international law provides Palestinians with their own state. Only loons like you argue such a point. So you want to debate based on your opinion versus realities and order of law. again: ideology over logic. loser
@mistersumthing No "Palestinians" existed at that point. Only Arabs. The Balfour Declaration and its implementation at San Remo by the League of Nations predate the rise of Naziism and the Holocaust. The Jewish People's return to the land of Israel is based on a 3.5 millenia old connection.What "international law" do you speak of? You have yet to answer why Egypt and Jordan did not grant states to the Arabs of Gaza and the so-called West Bank when they ruled these areas from 1948-1967.
@gregorsamsa613 dude, seriously get a life. It's not on Jordan or Egypt to grant Palestine a state - It IS a state. You want Israel to be recognized as a state but not Palestine. So your logic prejudices one side, and is inconsistent. Much like your version of events.
@mistersumthing Israel is already a state. The UN granted it statehood in 1948. It is "Palestine" that is not a state. The so-called peace process since the Oslo accords has been about creating this "Palestinian" state. Your grasp of the elementary facts is surprisingly weak for someone who is so given to ad-hominem attacks.
@mistersumthing P.S. You should immediately inform the Palestinian Authority that statehood is already a fact. Abbas & Co. will be delighted to hear it. Now get some rifles and start shooting into the air!
@gregorsamsa613 Israel was granted statehood, on Palestinian land. There is no debate amongst anyone -who isn't a zealot - that Palestine is a state. It is being denied it's statehood, and right to self determination because Israel OCCUPIES it...hence the term 'Israeli Occupation'. Honestly, go debate with 5 year olds on your intellectual level, not with someone who has to stoop down to your level to just deal with your childish and superficial version of history
@mistersumthing We have now come full circle with your parrot-like repetition of claims that have already been challenged with historical facts. Despite your name, you evidently have nothing but puerile denial and name-calling to defend your position.
@gregorsamsa613 Is Israel occupying land that they are legally entitled to, as per the internationally mandated borders? Have they broken any UN Resolutions? Are Israeli settlements illegal under international law? Prior to the formation of Israel, did Palestine have a majority of Arabs or Jews on that land? You can argue around little talking points you cut and paste from zionist websites, but it doesn't change the facts. really, get a life.
@mistersumthing (1)Judea and Samaria belong to Israel by virtue of the San Remo Resolution (1920) an independent act of binding international law ratified by the League of Nations: "The establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine simultaneously meant creating the state and country of Palestine which then did not officially exist as a legal entity under international law. That in turn meant Palestine in
its entirety was reserved exclusively for the self-determination of the (continued)
@mistersumthing "Jewish People.These two new entities in international law, the Jewish National Home and Palestine, were therefore synonymous since they were both created at the very same time and for the very same purpose. The Jewish National Home was to be housed in Palestine and Palestine was to be the Jewish National Home,i.e., the Jewish State – otherwise, Palestine would never have been legally created on April 24, 1920 as a separate country. It must always be borne in mind (continued)
@mistersumthing "Hence the idea of the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab States shortly to be introduced by the British in regard to Transjordan and still later in Cis-Jordanian [West Bank]Palestine, was a foreign idea that was never contemplated when Palestine was originally created on April 24, 1920." Howard Grief. The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel under International Law. Jerusalem: Mazo, 2008. 19.
@mistersumthing "The evidence supporting Israel’s legal claim to this land is overwhelming....[There are] voluminous and compelling legal arguments for Israeli sovereignty over Judea, Samaria, and Gaza—arguments articulated by American as well as Israeli professors of law."
Even putting this argument aside, Jordan’s occupation of Judea and Samaria from ‘48-‘67 was illegal. Israel’s recovery of this land where Jews have lived since biblical times and from which they were illegally (continued)
@mistersumthing excluded during the Jordanian occupation in violation of the Mandate for Palestine, was the result of a defensive war. Hence the land is legally retained and administered for self-protection & can be claimed at least in part for new defensible borders. Israel’s peace treaty with Jordan confirms this control. Oslo gave Israel responsibility for the overall security of Israelis who live there. Most of the land was never given to the authority of the PA. Jews have as much (cntd
@mistersumthing a right to live there - nay, a far greater right! - than Arabs.(2) The UN's unbalanced and monomaniacal resolutions against Israel have turned the UN into a ludicrous self-mockery, a kangaroo court run by despots and kow-towing lackies. (3) The Arab population, long stagnant, only grew after the Jewish return home began. Britain then limited Jewish immigration while allowing Arabs to enter unchecked. (Continued)
@mistersumthing At the time of the 1947 partition resolution, the Arabs were a majority in western Palestine while Jews were a majority in the area given them by the resolution and in Jerusalem.
@gregorsamsa613 BIG SWING AND A MISS..... Nobody is desputing that Jordan taking The West Bank (Not Judea) was not legit. If you apply that same standard of law then the 48 borders are not legit as well because the extra 19% Israel took was taking land by war. This means Israel would have to return to the 47 Partition Plan Borders.
@gregorsamsa613 that would explain why your heads in your ass. And after all of your tirades we've established that you believe that religious zealotry justifies illegal occupation of Palestine. Your reasons to why Palestine shouldn't exist? In your view LAW or the UN are irrelevant (hence your justifications for illegal occupation). Your facts are selective: Jews in the area annexed to Israel was mostly new immigrants of less than 20 years. Your no scholar, just an idiot clutching his bible
@mistersumthing The Arabs rejected a "Palestinian" state in 1948, never asked for one when Egypt & Jordan ruled Gaza and the "West Bank" respectively, and have followed a policy of rejectionism at the peace table despite Israel's many concessions over the years. Why? The Arab world cannot tolerate a Jewish presence in the Middle East. Muslim intolerance lies at the heart of the conflict. Yet the Koran acknowledges that the land belongs to the Jews: templemount [dot org/quranland
@gregorsamsa613 this is boring because it's like debating with a 5 year old. You can go in the past all you like, and use religious books to validate all you want. The text of religious books didn't necessarily refer to the exact land/territory we now refer to as Israel or Palestine because there were no countries then in the context we describe them now. So thats a pretty vague and weak reference. if we accept that's irrelevant, there's no scholarship to your debate. just idiocy
Finkelstein always sites Morris as saying. "The chief motor of Arab antagonism to Zionism was the fear of territorial dispossession and displacement". Then Morris wrote "1948" and claimed that is was Arab antisemitism and an Arab Jihad that became the "The chief motor of Arab antagonism to Zionism". Morris did change his tune and Finkelstein is correct in saying that no new evidence was provided.
TheJonnyx1 3 months ago
Very impressive discussion on trying to arrive at the truth. Most people have their minds already made up, so this discussion is somewhat of an academic exercise at this point. Best line of the video was when Finkelstein was called out for basing his books on Morris's books. See footnotes of Finkelstein's books as evidence. Did anyone notice how Finkelstein became overly emotional and tried to interrupt Morris after this?
TheRealEmet 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
fuck all debates! it's time for action! you can't claim the ownership of a land based on a book that says the earth is flat and it doesn't move! fuck israel! 1947 borders for palestine!
salvi447 5 months ago in playlist intellectuals debate israel palestine
@beardedcollie39 You're a joke. Your ad hominem attacks are worthless. You can't put settlers on the land you take, and claim that you took the land for security. Finkelstein's comment about using 'security' as a way to expand into all of Europe was spot-on. Hitler did use that as an excuse. And no amount of name-calling from you will change that fact.
EnnoiaBlog 7 months ago
finkelstein is a slug. nazi, nazi, apartheid, apartheid, yadda yadda yadda
beardedcollie39 7 months ago
I like Benny Morris; he's a great historian and here he shows characteristic Israeli bluntness tempered by compassion. Finkelstein is a gadfly and I'm glad he's around but he's really out of his depth here.
bdrasin 7 months ago
I must give Benny the shmuck partial credit for recognizing that settlements are not good for peace.
steute2011 8 months ago
benny morris knows well what needs to be said =]
TheLordIdanZiegeL 9 months ago
The photo camera was made 800 years later ! piece of intellect
For the rest ? what else can you say if you are brainless
akkafietje 10 months ago
Civilization came from Greece, not from the Arabs that are still barbarians !
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Lol ... you're so biased you can't even accept truths anymore.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 You aren't able to give me even one invention of arabs.
The small tribe of (18M) Jews delivered us many Nobel prized inventions.
What about the 500M Muslims and arabs ? There only invention is high jacking.
I can imagine you are frustrated until your bones (as an Arab or Muslim), and claim it by the Jews.
akkafietje 10 months ago
@akkafietje You do realize many of today's inventions come from or were based on Arab inventions. The camera for example was an invention by Arabs.
"Europeans have taken a lot of inventions by Muslim scientists and called them their own. the camera is one of many."
You're free to use the web to learn more instead of remaining a biased, racist bigot.
You think I'm frustrated. I sure am. Simply because I can't believe morons like you can actually exist.
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@bishyfish225 "camera for example was an invention by Arabs"
Joker , you even can't give me the name of the inventor, I guess it was mohammed
"Muslim scientists" I start to like you humor.
"You think I'm frustrated. I sure am" finally you are learning and give a normal answer
akkafietje 10 months ago
@akkafietje Well thanks for proving your idiocy to the world. Your so sad. I have to give you names for inventors but you can simply assert every Jew in the world is some sort of great inventor. Yes there were scientists you cretin, you're free to research. I'm sorry Judaism lacks great scientists.
"The Camera was invented by a Muslim Astronomer/Physicist/Mathematician Alhazen."
Normal answers. Wow you're so immature it's not even funny. Grow a freaking pair, learn something then talk to me.
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@bishyfish225 "the camera for example was an invention by Arabs"
It seems you do not understand the difference between a camera obscura and a photo camera. You really believe in a photo camera from 1000 A.D. ?
The Jews consist of 0.02% of the world population and got 150 Nobel prizes
The Muslims consist of 25% of the world population but got only 6 Nobel prizes
I guess this is clear enough to see the differences in I.Q.
"it's not even funny" never mind I start to like it. What about ur job
akkafietje 10 months ago
@akkafietje For one, your weak attempts at attacking me personally are far from provocative and have no effect. It just shows a typical Jew/Zionist.
Secondly, There are many inventions or concepts of inventions that wouldn't exist had it not been for Muslims. You base all inventions on Nobel prizes which is like saying our ancestors never created fire because they didn't get a Nobel prize for it.
Just shows what a low I.Q. you possess and how simple minded you are for simpleton assumptions.
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@akkafietje Your reference to hijacking is relevant how?
I'm living in Switzerland as a student and I'm very well off thank you. How is it bordering Palestine with plenty of water while the people behind the barrier are suffering?
Please your propaganda has no place here. Your idolization of "intellect" is irrelevant here. But it's so common among Zionists to praise their kin for their achievements, despite the fact they're still fucking terrorists.
Last comment, goodbye terrorist.
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@bishyfish225 Now I start to understand, a student on the expenses of the (Christian) western world. That’s why you call yourself an atheist, but tomorrow, if your subsidy stops, you are again a Muslim. “Zionists to praise their kin for their achievements” It are only facts that every one can find that’s not a discussion.
The Jews are or you like it or not the most intelligent people on earth, that’s why Jahuwe gave them the responsibility about his holy book.
akkafietje 10 months ago
@akkafietje Hahaha , whatever helps you sleep at night you pathetic little rodent. Can't accept the fact that I'm an atheist purely out of choice and belief? You have to resort to attacks on Islam to make a point? Ok Jews are smart. What does that prove? Zionists aren't terrorists? Jews don't equal Zionists you imbecile.
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@bishyfish225 On all points you lost, from camera obscura till hijacking you was wrong. Trying to lie over the place of living ( what I have seen the first day in your profile). May be even an your tube assignment is made by some body else. Swiss will be very happy which such a piece of barbaric arab.
So lick your wounds and continue in your lies
akkafietje 10 months ago
@akkafietje Omg please continue! I'm literally laughing my ass off!
you "was" wrong??!! lol!!
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@akkafietje Btw lie about where I live? You continue to make a fool out of yourself you silly little cretin. You asked me my nationality and I stated it. You never asked me where I live.
Switzerland is very happy with a law abiding citizen such as myself. It can't be helped you avoid paying taxes in your country because you're so cheap.
but seriously continue .. you're cracking me up soooo much!!!
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@akkafietje the camera obscura "was one of the inventions that led to photography" :P
lol! :D I guess the Jews then came in and took credit for that yeah?
"lick your wounds". Where the fuck do you learn such ridiculous phrases. Why don't you eat a dick and learn some proper attacks if you want to keep projecting belittlements onto me.
pfft .. wounds .. man I can imagine you must be some skinny ass ugly piece of rotten shit so you have to make yourself sound superior :P so sad..
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@akkafietje And you base the Jewish inventions all on the ones that went to Israel? Prove to me every Jewish invention was based in Israel. My god you're such an idiot. Your so blinded by your love for your country you gain gratification by belittling other peoples' nations.
Muslims only invented hijacking? Lets see ...
"In 1973, the Nixon Administration ordered the discontinuance by the CIA of the use of hijacking as a covert action weapon against the Castro regime"
mmhhmmmmm.....
bishyfish225 10 months ago
@bishyfish225 I say only from the Jewisch tribe of less then 18 Million are many Nobel Prize receivers.
While from the 500 million Arabs there is none.
This to show you the difference in intellect !
The DC9 of SAS, in 1973 was hijacked by Croatian muslims.
I presume they are very happy in Canada with such a piece of intellect. Do you have a job, or are you receiving a social payment
akkafietje 10 months ago
@akkafietje Arabs invented being stinky goat fuckers
IBeatUpThugs 7 months ago
@IBeatUpThugs Yeh, that's what I forgot of course, I have to be honest
akkafietje 7 months ago
Answer first my questions
akkafietje 11 months ago
Jordan started hostilities in 1967, and they lost the war, QED.
middlemanscaggs 1 year ago
Saree Makdisi 100% accurate on the subject of Israeli collective neurosis. All Israeli violence is always justified in the minds of most Israelis.
goer1234 1 year ago
As long as Hamas does not recognize Israel , and wants to destroy it, here's nothing to negotiate
akkafietje 1 year ago
@akkafietje So long as Israel doesn't recognize Palestine, its hypocrisy to ask Palestinians to recognize Israel.
bravo45 1 year ago
@bravo45 So to who gave Israel the Gaza and west bank ? btw Palestine has never been a country, it was a province of Jordan.
And you can be sure Jordan should never give them independence or a capital.
Palestine’s are hated by Arabs, and only used by them to destroy Israel.
The “Palestine area’s” are already divided by Hamas and Abbas.
akkafietje 1 year ago
@akkafietje Palestine was never a county. Typical Zionist argument. So basically the people inhabiting the area are 'fake', and don't deserve basic human rights. Hence, we can expel them, annex their land and brutally massacre the ones who oppose our occupation.
The Arab world isn't instrumental to use Palestine as a way through to getting rid of Israel. That's a childish argument. The Arab world and many others want Zionism gone.
Zionism, through terrorism, created Israel.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “Palestine was never a county” correct or not ???.
When the Jews entered legally that Jordan province, the most Palestinians left the Palestine with the idea ; we shall return and destroy them.
But they didn’t, they are hated by the Arab countries, but are just good enough to attack for them Israel for them.
They are put in camps, to keep them aggressive to the Jews. Why did they not get normal houses ?
Israel gave them Gaza to in exchange for peace what's the result ??
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Wow, how old are you? Are you bloody serious mate?! Proper houses? What fantasy do you live in. The harboring countries like Syria and Jordan can magically provide "proper" houses for approximately 4 million refugees? Please get real.
Israel gave them Gaza? Well how nice. Why is it barred off from the rest of the world? Why do they have no freedom. Why are supplies denied from reaching those in need?Why are houses demolished by the thousands? Why can't they be one state,not divided
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje Never a country? America was never a country... but I see your point. It's ok then to decimate the indigenous population and take their land. Very reasonable argument.
Palestinians never left hoping to destroy anyone. Zionists flooded their country, were gaining their land (through terrorist tactics, e.g. Irgun), and the Arab countries decided to protect and oppose the threat. This started with Zionists/
Hated by Arab world? So all the support they get from Arabs means...?
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 (B) There was plenty of room for both tribes, because it were not many Jews and a only a small group of palestines in that time.
The Jews bought a lot of ground from the Muslims.
The palestines are financially supported by US $500 million and E.U. E400 million.
Not one $ is given by Arab. Countries, only weapons to attack Israel
akkafietje 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 (A) “Never a country” a country is a area with a government, and a capitol. (Trans) Jordan allowed the palestines to live in that province.
That capitol = Amman. The government is in Amman too the leader was Hussein.
Would you have to any thing to say against this Yes or No.
The Jews legally entered the country granted by the U.N. in 1948 Yes or No
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje You haven't answered my question. If it wasn't a country, does that mean it's OK to kick out the people residing on that land. The argument "never a country" holds no water. Jordan, and what Israel now holds was one land. It's funny you should mention the UN. Who gave them the right to designate someone's land to another people? They don't have the right to "grant" without consent. If you place so much power in their hands, why isn't Israel abiding by their resolutions?
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 What I say: Palestine has never been a country,
because there was no capitol, no government, no army no president. Palestine was a (trans) Jordan province.
The idea that Hussein them ever would have given an independents land is ridicules for a Muslim country. If you don’t agree with an official U.N. decision, you don’t have to complain to me. All the Complains from Israel to the U.N. today, are denied, because of the united Muslim countries !
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje The idea is ridiculous? And what do you have to prove that. Again, what's your point. Fine they had no government, army, etc. It was a different society than those of our time. Again: does that give warrant to take their land simply because we think we'll do better with it? Are the live's of Israelis worth more?
This conspiracy that UN is run by a group of Muslim countries is another hysteria. America with its veto power makes the UN a joke, so no I don't agree with them.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “Are the live's of Israelis worth more?” what a question Israel exchanged 1000 Palestine’s for 1 Israelis.
They even exchange 1 dead Israeli body for 2 living terrorist.
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Your argument could not be more faulty. This is hilarious.
"Since Hamas captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit back in 2006, his plight has been etched into the nation's conscience. Israelis have pressured the government to offer thousands of Palestinians in exchange for Shalit."
This only shows that Israel has thousands of Palestinian prisoners they detain and torture without trial. Many of them children and women imprisoned for petty crimes. They're worth nothing to Israel.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje Think before you post, please. The public wants their fellow Israelis back. The government has to act under pressure. You think if Palestine asked for all their dead and imprisoned back they'd get them?
Zionism is a supremacist way of thinking. You're free to watch this and see what Israelis tend to think of Palestinians to justify their atrocities.
watch?v=XZvdpBHgcZI
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “imprisoned back they'd get them”
give me one reason why should they return this terrorists.
As Palestine, they insult them self by asking 1000 prisoners for only 1 Israeli, they acknowledge the superiority of Israel. BTW why is it that Libya rebels prayed US and EU to help them, inspite of 500 million Muslims cowards are around
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Terrorists? As in children and women (and men) who never committed a crime in their entire lives? People taken to prison and tortured without reason? Those terrorists?
As for the rest of your post, please improve your English because I have no idea what you're getting at. Libya? Muslims? How's that relevant again? And Israel asked for their 1 soldier back in return for 1000 soldiers. So how's that Palestine insulting itself? It's Israel that humiliates Palestine daily.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje "official U.N. decision" -- that's just hilarious. Let me tell you this. The idea that Israel ever wants peace is an absolute joke. Every condition they demand is at a gain for them and a loss for Palestine. They ask Palestine to recognize them but they never recognize the democratically elected bodies governing Palestine. Israel is a state that bitches and looks to America to cuddle it with its protective vetoes. Go take your Muslim conspiracy theory to another page.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 "official U.N. decision" is that true or false ? give first an answer !!
They have given Gaza for peace yes or no
Did they get rest and peace no !
The Hamas is a terrorist group, why did the leaders of the Palestine’s lock them up in camps. They receive yearly a billion dollar. Give me an example of a resolution vetoes by Us
Please give clear answers instead of only complaining
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje "Washington used its veto 32 times to shield Israel from critical draft resolutions between 1972 and 1997" -- that's just a taste. You're free to search the dozens more they've utilized to their advantage.
I'm sorry you're English is weak. In case you haven't notice from my response, NO, no "U.N. decision" is an official one as I reiterate, it doesn't have the right to govern someone else's land.
No Gaza never got peace, hence the ongoing occupation, you cretin.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 "Washington used its veto 32 times " show me only the last on
"you're English is weak" if so, answer then clear with yes or no !
what was the reason to give Gaza to their enemies, including houses, roads and farms ?
" petty crimes" a country in war has to be carefully.
Hamas is playing with missiles, digging tunnels, so now and then Israel has to correct them
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje You asked for an example you cretin. You didn't ask a 'yes or no' type of question. My god you're such an imbecile.
Israel gave Gaza? They left what was originally Palestine into two separate spits of land where they keep Palestinians imprisoned and deprived.
Israel has to be careful. I'm sure children throwing stones at a barrier is threatening to the state ...
Hamas, like the rest of the Palestinian population are imprisoned, so they'll do whatever to get out.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “example you cretin” give me he last resolution veto-ed by US out of your 32.
Did they give Gaza Yes or no.
Palestine Children are learned by the parents to hate Israeli’s and how to use catapults.
If I was an armed soldier I would not accept that any one throw stones to me.
“Palestinian population are imprisoned” correct there own leaders put them in camps so they can keep the billion $ for them self.
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje "On November 11, 2006, the United States used its veto to prevent the adoption of a U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Israeli military operations in the Gaza Strip. Ten countries supported the resolution, with four countries - The United Kingdom, Denmark, Japan and Slovakia abstaining"
You're free to use the world wide web to answer your pointless questions.
Did they "give" Gaza? I guess they gave land with no freedoms and little resources. How convenient.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 "On November 11, 2006” so nearly 5 years ago ? very convincing.
“they gave land with no freedoms” Israel provides all their needs including fuel for electricity,
you can find it on internet. But it are naughty children who needs now and then to be spanked
by pappa Israel
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje What about the Israeli children taught to hate Palestinians with all their hearts. To detest them and think of them as animals no worthy of life on this planet? Double standards much? And catapults? Where do your hear these things? I'm sure you're aware your precious IDF wreaks havoc on Palestine. They shoot women and children randomly. You are aware of all this yes? If you were armed you wouldn't accept getting hit by a stone? I guess a bullet in return for the petty crime is fair.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “ Israeli children taught to hate Palestinians”
There is no need to teaches them. They observe how that cowards kill innocent bus passengers.
“catapults” I saw it several times on T.V. would you really deny that ?????????
I saw the missile installations as close as possible to hospitals! why do you support that “people”
I guess you have never been there, and will only show your anti-Semitic ideas
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje What's really anti-Semitic is Zionism. That's fact. Just look at your years of twisted mentality. There's even a quote by one of your prime ministers commenting on what 'degenerates' the Palestinians are. As if they're animals no worth living.
Israeli children are taught racism and hatred, that's undeniable. Palestinians are taught similar concepts against the Israelis but I wonder why. I wonder what you'd feel seeing so many people around you die and suffer daily.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje Kids develop sick psychological problems because of the disgusting crimes committed by Israel.
catapults? I think you mean slingshots? We aren't in the medieval ages mate. You can say they catapult stones from slingshots, that would make sense. And again, is that really dangerous? You amuse me good sir.
I support those people because they're deprived, humiliated and tortured by monsters. But ya pappy Israel can keep "spanking" until the day they burn in hell. Barbarians.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje The Palestinian authority is nothing but a subservient organization to Israel's will. And no, they didn't place them there. Israelis did. Israelis are the ones building barriers around them and depriving them of essentials or aid.
As far as Libya's case, the story is different. It's civil war for one. In that case, no one should be siding. Especially because you can't simply sympathize with one faction. Rebels may be protesting over nothing. Christian world? Generalize much?
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225
“they didn't place them there. Israelis did” Israel made the camps ? Who is spending the yearly $ 1 billion as a gift by Christians nations to their Muslim enemies. “Rebels may be protesting over nothing” 42 years an idiot as a dictator who bombs his own habitants.
You are talking like a crazy muslim. What's your root
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Then again, 42 years building a nation out of scratch, serving his people, etc. What the heck do you know about Qaddafi other than what the biased media wants you to think? Not saying he's great, but the Libya civil war, and I emphasize "civil war" is a completely different topic.
In case you didn't notice, what's left of Palestine is a "camp". Israel spending on their neighbors? Or on their scrooges? Crazy Muslims? well said! Clearly you're a brainwashed simpleton Zionist.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “do you know about Qaddafi” He is a mad dog, who terrorizes his own people . No human rights, a terrorist. Every one who support this idiot, I the same !
"what's left of Palestine"
Do you still not acknowledge that they receive $ 1000 million year FROM US + EU, so why do not build houses after 60 years.
Again what is your root ? are you ashame to say it ? I quess your a turk
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje I know Qaddafi's violation of human rights and the atrocities he has committed on his own people. Is it any different from Israel? Wholesale terrorism vs retail terrorism. What's larger on your scale? I guess it's all the little terrorist organizations and leader in the Zionist measurements.
Palestine receives money? Or the PNA, subservient scrooges to Israel's will. Israel suppresses Palestine in so many ways it's truly remarkable.
Am I a Turk? No. Why does this matter again?
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “I know Qaddafi's violation” but still you support him
“different from Israel” Does Israel kills their own people ?
Israel defends them self against the daily missiles from Gaza, and Muslim suicides heroes
“Am I a Turk” because the way you show your intellect, why do you hide your roots and religion
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Let me go through this step by step. I appreciate you divided your responses into bits.
I don't support Qaddafi, I'm simply supporting certain attacks you've made on him, which are still irrelevant I should add.
Israel doesn't kill its own people. It kills the people around it with excuses evident as lies. Self-defense is the most common pretext for their massacres. Hamas is defending its own people but they're called terrorists. Double standards that is.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje You're so keen to know where I'm from well I will tell you. I'm sure you'll attempt deplorable attacks on me based on my ethnicity. I'm Syrian/Canadian and I'm an atheist.
Very convincing? If you're not convinced there are plenty of others you can search! History is factual but I guess 5 years makes it obsolete?
Israel takes away their electricity and other resources you mean. Not to mention they ruined their infrastructure during their years of occupation and raids.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “I'm Syrian/Canadian” that’s makes it easier, you have Arab blood, but escaped to Canada to enjoy the fruits of the west.
While your people is killed in Damascus if they asked for democracy." Israel takes away their electricity “ Its Israel who supply them oil for the generators Israel settlers left beautiful farms in Gaza for that..
"really anti-Semitic is Zionism" I wonder if you already know what is anti semitic
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje I have Arab blood so my arguments are invalid or something? Yes my family were keen for better living conditions. I never said Syria is great and I hope dearly for a change in regime. But ignore your faults and worry about mine why don't you. It's the only good thing Zionists can do. Their weak ad hominem arguments are always bent on attacking the person rather than the valid point s/he makes.
Arabs are semites but I wonder how you'll refute that.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje Israel deprives Palestine of electricity among many other things.
watch?v=QdfBylKcHMo
one example right there. Human rights organizations stated these! The only electricity Israel is supplying is the ones they sent into a Palestinian child's genitals during interrogation.
Settlers supplying beautiful farms? You mean the illegal settlements? The ones where they drove out Palestinians and took over their beautiful homes and land.
Talking about democracy, Israel has none.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 “Talking about democracy, Israel has none”
In the whole middle east they are the only democracy. There is no Muslim country yet with it.
In Syria is already 40 years martial law. No wonder that the inhabitants fly to the west.
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Sir, I'd like you to take some time out of your schedule and define democracy. For one, there isn't an agreed definition for it. It tends to be your country is a democracy either way. You pick out the faults in others, say yours is better and assert that it's a democracy. Funny thing about that is, for Israel to make such a claim, it's extremely ironical. A state which is based on supremacist ideology and is under apartheid can't be called a democracy. It's simply absurd.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje Again, I already agreed Syria was in a crap state. I want things to change. However people fleeing? If you haven't noticed a lot of them stay and support the regime. That's mostly because of propaganda and emergency law depriving them of freedom of speech. Nevertheless, they're not fleeing.
Why are you worrying about Syria right now? The topic is Israel, is it not? I knew announcing my nationality would follow up with a flow of pointless attacks and accusations.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 Because Israel is an example for the Muslim countries.
It's the only country with democacy in the whole mid east + Muslimcountries
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Okay, whatever suits your needs. Belittle others and praise Israel for its inhumanity. I can't debate with a sadistic, brainwashed patriot such as yourself.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 You are frustrated until your “soul”.
But remember at least one thing :
Israel is a pearl in the garbage container in the middle east + the whole Muslim world !!
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje Haha, whatever helps you sleep at night. Praise the inhumanity found in Israel. Advocate their atrocities. Support their misconduct. Love the tyranny. Adore the supremacy. Pray for the sadistic IDF soldiers. DO whatever you need to. I can't help those who lack humanity in them.
Democracy my ass. Middle East garbage you say? Mate Middle East shaped our contemporary societies but you wouldn't want to acknowledge that out of your ad hominem attitude.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@bishyfish225 What about the Muslim hero’s who do not help there brothers in Libya.
While the rebels are praying the Christian world to help
akkafietje 11 months ago
@akkafietje The PNA gets funded but in case you're too much of an ignoramus to realize, the people working in that party are stooges, working on behalf of Israel and America's interests. Reason why they buy mansions and such instead of aiding their own people.
Hamas is a terrorist group in your eyes. They seem to be freedom fighters in the eyes of others. Even in your case they're only retail terrorism. Israel is wholesale terrorism. The sooner you recognize that, the better off you'll be.
bishyfish225 11 months ago
@akkafietje "Stalin was more brutal so the Nazis occupying Russia would be good" was an argument that didnt work with Hitler & its not gonna work with Israel. That even if v accept ur filthy argument. Fact is its not Israel's land & that is enough for a just individual 2 c through all the B.S. Ur arguments r the worst broken record ever & they don't work until u hav 1 living cell in your brain.
bravo45 1 week ago
Justice will be done, colonies will end, Israel will pay for its crimes, each and every since one of them!!!
bravo45 1 week ago
@bravo45 I can not remember that I did ever address's a comment to an idiot like you
akkafietje 1 week ago
@akkafietje Yeah, you'd never take on a logic, braindead!!
bravo45 1 week ago
Spain? Baghdad? The Jews were second class in both cases during that period of Islamic imperialism. The 1 state solution will just end in another war, especially with the theocratic aspirations of the Arabs.
Chinomareno 1 year ago
You have Gaza and the West Bank. Gaza where Israel pulled out all settlers, west bank where they did not. Which is more violent, radical, war torn? Clearly continuing settlements IS the more peaceful option. And that is the number 1 thing that matters, more than so called apartheid or occupation or any of this garbage. Human life of both Israelis and Palestinians. If Israel moves out of west bank, it radicalizes and attacks Israel. And eventually you have another Cast Lead on the West Bank.
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
Shouldn't have had that little shit in the blue tie. Arabs and Jews live together in one country? What planet does he live on? That is the type of mindless Idealism that leads to massive death in the real world. Notice Morris talks about what would be best and peaceful for both sides. Blue tie kid reveals that he does not care about Israeli or Palestinian lives. He would gladly put radical Arabs and Jews together and watch them kill each other much more just so he can live in lala land.
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
Israel could have legally annexed the West Bank after it secured it from Jordan after fighting a DEFENSIVE war. It made a mistake not doing it. It took it defensively as any army would do, secure an area where an enemy Army is attacking it from. If Israel simply left West bank to the Arabs they would just attack from it again. If Israel pulled out of the West bank now like it did in Gaza the Arabs there would attack Israel much more. That is 100% security not neurosis.
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
what an idiot this dr morris
andrzejhk 1 year ago
Norman Finkelstein is not the only Jewish scholar
taking Benny Morris to task regarding his books.
Google:
history news network+Morris+ Kimmerling
Google:
Benny Morris one state, two states+Brian Goldfarb
Ti1nah 1 year ago
@Ti1nah You understandably omit Efraim Karsh who speaks from the right (in both senses of that word) in reference to the early Morris, the one that Fink. & Co. misappropriate:
meforum[dot]org/466/benny-morris-and-the-reign-of-error
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
Benny Morris, is an educated idiot
mistersumthing 1 year ago
Comment removed
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 you obviously have little understanding of nuance or common sense intentional mistakes that a grade-schooler would get. But that goes some way to explaining your allegiance to Benny Morris, and calling anyone who confronts Zionism as anti-semetic. It's usually a tact that displays a general intellectual laziness, or worse, inferiority. So yes, compared to you I am superior. thanks
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing You will not find an automatic equation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism under my name. However the two go pretty much hand-in-hand nowadays.
Is your Jew-friendly anti-Zionism another one of your intentional mistakes or just an accidental mistake?
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 If you are trying to make the case for Jordan being stolen land from the Zionists based on the San Remo confrence in 1920 you better pack your bags. You joke about running to WIki, well the joke is on you. Even Wikipedia says that Trans-Jordan was exempt from the mandate provisions concerning a Jewish Homeland under the 1915 McMahon Pledge. Anyone who spends 5 minutes on Wiki can debunk your bullshit.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Ironic that you don't seem to get the joke. Wikipedia is the last place a serious student or scholar would go to. You cite it at your own peril. I will repeat the reference I gave below to substantiate my statement: LECTURE DELIVERED BY ATTORNEY HOWARD GRIEF
AT THE MENAHEM BEGIN HERITAGE CENTER, JERUSALEM. OCTOBER 14, 2009
"ISRAEL’S LEGAL FOUNDATION, BORDERS AND RIGHTS TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW"
justicenow4israel[dot]com/grieflecture1.html
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 Just because you say the World Court is a Kangaroo Court does not mean that it is. The fact is that the everything Israel does in the occupied territories is illegal. Acquiring land by war is illegal under international law, and the settelements are illegal. IF they do not want rockets fired at them then they should get the fuck of the land that does not belong to them.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
Comment removed
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@genYprogressive You're right: just because the judges have pouches and hop is no reason to call their court that. The territories in question are in dispute. They never "belonged" to the Arabs. Israel has every right to "settle" Judea and Samaria, land - in terms of 20th C history - that she acquired in a defensive war. It's perfectly legal. The Arab aggressors lost: too bad. Would Israeli evacuation of the disputed land bring about peace? Experience proves the opposite.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 Not one single war Israel was in was a defensive war. And even in 73 the only war Israel did not start not one county or embassador in the UN condemed it, because . Israel started every war with the help of others except 73. You cannot refute that.Occupying the West Bank is not for security, give it up
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Your hashish-inspired vision of ME history is quite special. My only question : How dare you claim that Israel did not also start the '73 war?
What's wrong with you? Are you harbouring Zionist sympathies?
No, my dear, you are quite beyond refutation, living in an impregnable fantasy that is all your own.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Because that's what happened when they left Gaza? In the real world anywhere Israel leaves will be used to launch a massive attack from. And every Jew and every Arab knows it. The Arabs will run around saying look how weak Israel is they fled from us. Palestinians and the rest of the Arabs openly state they want all of Israel and will take it piece by piece.
SECURITY
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
@IBeatUpThugs Explain to me how it is even possable for people armed with primative rockets to wipe a nuclear armed superpower from the map as you claim they want to do. This talking point is laughable, they could not do that if they wanted to.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Thank you for proving my point. It isn't possible. So by your own admission Israeli security measures are effective at protecting Israel and stopping larger war.
What anti-Zionists ask for, end of Gaza blockade, nuclear disarming, withdrawl from West bank, will lead to much bigger weapons being given to Palestinians by Iran and whomever else and better ability to wipe out Israel, which they openly call for. They only have "primitive rockets" because of the Gaza blockade.
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
@IBeatUpThugs You made no point at all. How is taking civilians and relocating them to settlements in the middle of what they define as a war zone for security? It is not. You have zero facts to stand on.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Nice changing the subject.
Look at West Bank before Israel took it. It was used to wage large wars with Israel. Now it isn't.
Israel won the West Bank in a war started by Arabs. Israel tried to sign a peace treaty and define final borders but Arabs refused. Israel could legally annexed the West Bank but didn't cause it didn't give a shit about the West Bank. It's been 30 years. Arabs just want to fight. Recognize Israel, stop talking about destroying it, and Israel would leave
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
@IBeatUpThugs Wrong on all counts 1. Israel started every single war except 73. 2. Israel has no legal claim to 1 inch of the West Bank. Gaza. or East Jerusalem. That is not my opinion that is the opinion of the highest judicial body in the world, The World Court. They rulled on it in 2004. 3. Every year since the mid 70s the UN has tried to settle the conflict with the 2 state solution and every year the US and Israel vote aginst this. Israel is in the way of peace. Period. End of story.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Oh yeah. Poorly armed Israel the day after it's independence decided to start a war with 5 Arab countries. ORRRRRR. 5 Arab countries said hey let's go destroy Israel. Yes Israel of course wanted to go to war with Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon etc to win absolutely nothing whatsoever.
Are you retarded? Do you have selective hearing when Arab states and Fakestinians have all continuously have called for the destruction of Israel for 60 years? Which part of that is confusing you?
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
Israel also decided to recognize the PLO, withdraw from Gaza, gave back land and mostly make peace with Jordan and Egypt.
Concessions by Palestinians ever = 0. It's obvious Palestinians are war mongering dickheads and deserve everything they get. It's obvious you like to sit in your ivory tower egging on terrorists. It's obvious it has nothing whatsoever to do with you and you need to mind your business. Jews do not recognize self-appointed moral judges most of whom have savage histories.
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
@IBeatUpThugs Israel made 0 concessions at Camp David and Tabba. Arafat and the PLO ceded 60% of the settlements 80% of the settlers. They compromised on East Jerusalem. They gave up in the right of returne. Even though this went beyond what was leagally required of them.
If bullshitting was money you could bail out Wall St. with cash to spare.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive LOL. Wow. Don't even respond again til you cite that you lying sack of shit. Because it's widely known that Israel offered 95% of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and a Palestinians state at camp david. Arafag said "no", no counter-offer and walked out.
Taba Israel offered 97% of the west bank.
No Palestinian ever gave up right of return.
No Palestinian has ever stopped calling for the end of Israel.
Source your shit, cause you can see what I'm saying right on wikipedia. Liar.
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
@IBeatUpThugs Tabba ended officially when Barack withdrew his negotiators. Israel walked out of Tabba not Arafat.
Again you are completly missing the point. The issue is not what Israel was offering the point is what were they leagally entitled to.
All concessions came from the Palestinians. Israel made 0 concessions.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Don't speak to me until you cite what you said above about Arafat's offer. You say Israel made no concessions. I just proved they did and showed a commonly accepted source that verifies what I'm saying. Back up what you said or your a liar.
Israel is not legally required to give up any of the West Bank. In fact Israel is morally obligated not to at this moment, to protect their innocent civilians against people openly devoted to endless warfare and the destruction of Israel.
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
@IBeatUpThugs How Fucking stupid are you. I just cited the World Court and the UN. The Blockade, The Occupation, and The Settlements are completly illegal under International Law. Yet you could not challange me on the fact that Israel Started every single war except 73 and why are they building Settlements for security.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@genYprogressive LOL. Nice try clown. Cite Arafat's offer you listed above...
"Arafat and the PLO ceded 60% of the settlements 80% of the settlers. They compromised on East Jerusalem. They gave up in the right of returne."
Go play your political revolutionary fantasy-land kids games elsewhere you shallow soulless yuppie nobody. Grown folks are talking here.
IBeatUpThugs 1 year ago
@genYprogressive
u wannan know what zionists are?
pls read TALMUD, and PROTOCOL OF ELDERS OF ZION.
desiman1 1 year ago
@desiman1 I know about those. Protocol of elders of zion is only 10% true.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@IBeatUpThugs
u wannan know what zionists are?
pls read TALMUD, and PROTOCOL OF ELDERS OF ZION.
desiman1 1 year ago
@IBeatUpThugs You just destroyed all our credibility by exposing your "fonts," well done
Burdell22000 1 year ago
@IBeatUpThugs FAIL Israel was not poorly armed in 48. Their armed forces were twice the Arab Forces because King Abdullah did not attack. You have never heard of Plan Dhaled in 1947 which was where Israel "secured' their borders by destroying Palestinians villiages within their borders. This along with the massacures, all of this before 1 Arab soldier even set foot on thier land. Israel Started the 48 war.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 actually you did just a few comments below. And the fact that you think nowadays it equates to the same, pretty much summarizes the intellectual level you're working at. Unfortunately ideological perspectives are more important to you than intellectual ones...which is common of fools arguing fools arguments. And by the way, there are numerous anti-zionist jewish groups, including orthodox jews who feel as much, or prominent minds, scholars and writers on the subject. Try reading
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing(1) I assume you refer to this comment:"The Palestinians do not want peace because they teach their children to hate Jews and to kill them." This is fact. Have you never watched Palestinian TV's children programs? They mix Sesame Street-like characters with genocidal indoctrination. Visit Palestinian Media Watch and educate yourself. (Continued.)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 actually no, i wasn't referring to that. but then again i don't judge Palestinians by the acts of a few who have been illegally occupied for 60 years. Israel (or supporters) are in no moral position to judge Palestinians. The victim will hate the rapist. The chicken will hate the wolf. That argument you're using is the same response whites had to black nationalism, and history teaches us who was on the wrong side of that argument...
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing The acts in question are not of "the few." They are, moreover, representative of the many. In any case, to use the term "illegal" and "occupation" begs the question twice over. There is no occupation and there is no illegality. These statements are based on fact. I understand that a blind partisan such as yourself is impervious to fact.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 you're a nutjob, who knows nothing of the history of the conflict, that much is evident. You should get a life instead of trying to shove your ideological view down everyone else's throat, particularly as it contradicts the basic facts and realities of the situation.
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing You evidently know only the history promulgated by the Leftist-Arab axis. Your "facts" and "realities" have been manufactured by a powerful propaganda machine to which too many have fallen victim.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 right, ok. So your youtube comments are more valid than those on the historical record. Israel has broken virtually every UN Resolution it signed on to. The problem with your argument, is that you believe that Jewish people can reclaim a land occupied by others for centuries by expelling them from their homes violently. and your defense is that it's their right by reclaiming 'their heritage'. It's an illogical argument that lacks any common sense - much like your argument overall
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing (1) Why no concern for the 850,000 Jews driven out of Arab lands after 1948, Jews who had lived there in some cases for millenia? These Jews were absorbed by Israel. The Arab countries have shirked their responsibility to do the same for political reasons.In effect an exchange of populations took place - smoething that happened many times after World War Two. Ex.: the exchange of Hindu and Muslim populations to create the modern states of India and Pakistan. (Continued)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 There has been a Jewish presence in the land for over 3 millenia. Many Arabs, on the other hand, arrived only in the wake of the modern Zionists, who made the desolate lands and swamps they bought fruitful. - The 1948 partition plan granted a state to the Arabs as well as to the Jews. The Arabs and their Arab confederates rejected it, opting to wage war on the new born state of Israel. The Arabs lost. Population dislocations are a frequent consequence of war. (Continued)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 because the Jewish exodus is a RESULT of Israeli aggression against Palestinians, not the other way around.
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing The 1948 war was initiated by the Arabs. They lost. Population dislocation was a consequence of this loss. The Germans lost WWII. Ethnic Germans consequently faced tranference from adjacent countries back to Germany. The so-called Palestinians already have a Palestinian state. It is called Jordan.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 right, so you want to debate ppl based on your opinion rather than facts? The formation of Israel was based on a decision to re-appropriate land Palestinians were living on to Jews because of crimes committed by Germans. So, they reacted and fought it. But even international law provides Palestinians with their own state. Only loons like you argue such a point. So you want to debate based on your opinion versus realities and order of law. again: ideology over logic. loser
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing No "Palestinians" existed at that point. Only Arabs. The Balfour Declaration and its implementation at San Remo by the League of Nations predate the rise of Naziism and the Holocaust. The Jewish People's return to the land of Israel is based on a 3.5 millenia old connection.What "international law" do you speak of? You have yet to answer why Egypt and Jordan did not grant states to the Arabs of Gaza and the so-called West Bank when they ruled these areas from 1948-1967.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 dude, seriously get a life. It's not on Jordan or Egypt to grant Palestine a state - It IS a state. You want Israel to be recognized as a state but not Palestine. So your logic prejudices one side, and is inconsistent. Much like your version of events.
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing Israel is already a state. The UN granted it statehood in 1948. It is "Palestine" that is not a state. The so-called peace process since the Oslo accords has been about creating this "Palestinian" state. Your grasp of the elementary facts is surprisingly weak for someone who is so given to ad-hominem attacks.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@mistersumthing P.S. You should immediately inform the Palestinian Authority that statehood is already a fact. Abbas & Co. will be delighted to hear it. Now get some rifles and start shooting into the air!
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 Israel was granted statehood, on Palestinian land. There is no debate amongst anyone -who isn't a zealot - that Palestine is a state. It is being denied it's statehood, and right to self determination because Israel OCCUPIES it...hence the term 'Israeli Occupation'. Honestly, go debate with 5 year olds on your intellectual level, not with someone who has to stoop down to your level to just deal with your childish and superficial version of history
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing We have now come full circle with your parrot-like repetition of claims that have already been challenged with historical facts. Despite your name, you evidently have nothing but puerile denial and name-calling to defend your position.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 Is Israel occupying land that they are legally entitled to, as per the internationally mandated borders? Have they broken any UN Resolutions? Are Israeli settlements illegal under international law? Prior to the formation of Israel, did Palestine have a majority of Arabs or Jews on that land? You can argue around little talking points you cut and paste from zionist websites, but it doesn't change the facts. really, get a life.
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing (1)Judea and Samaria belong to Israel by virtue of the San Remo Resolution (1920) an independent act of binding international law ratified by the League of Nations: "The establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine simultaneously meant creating the state and country of Palestine which then did not officially exist as a legal entity under international law. That in turn meant Palestine in
its entirety was reserved exclusively for the self-determination of the (continued)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@mistersumthing "Jewish People.These two new entities in international law, the Jewish National Home and Palestine, were therefore synonymous since they were both created at the very same time and for the very same purpose. The Jewish National Home was to be housed in Palestine and Palestine was to be the Jewish National Home,i.e., the Jewish State – otherwise, Palestine would never have been legally created on April 24, 1920 as a separate country. It must always be borne in mind (continued)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@mistersumthing "and
emphasized that Palestine was not created to satisfy Arab national aspirations in
any part of the country, whether east or west of the Jordan. Those aspirations
were duly taken into account at the San Remo Peace Conference in a different
paragraph of the San Remo Resolution, but it was decided that they would be
satisfied in the adjoining territories of Mesopotamia and Syria, in addition to the
already existing state of the Hedjaz in the Arabian Peninsula. (Cntnued)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@mistersumthing "Hence the idea of the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab States shortly to be introduced by the British in regard to Transjordan and still later in Cis-Jordanian [West Bank]Palestine, was a foreign idea that was never contemplated when Palestine was originally created on April 24, 1920." Howard Grief. The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel under International Law. Jerusalem: Mazo, 2008. 19.
As Professor Paul Eidelberg observes (Continued)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@mistersumthing "The evidence supporting Israel’s legal claim to this land is overwhelming....[There are] voluminous and compelling legal arguments for Israeli sovereignty over Judea, Samaria, and Gaza—arguments articulated by American as well as Israeli professors of law."
Even putting this argument aside, Jordan’s occupation of Judea and Samaria from ‘48-‘67 was illegal. Israel’s recovery of this land where Jews have lived since biblical times and from which they were illegally (continued)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@mistersumthing excluded during the Jordanian occupation in violation of the Mandate for Palestine, was the result of a defensive war. Hence the land is legally retained and administered for self-protection & can be claimed at least in part for new defensible borders. Israel’s peace treaty with Jordan confirms this control. Oslo gave Israel responsibility for the overall security of Israelis who live there. Most of the land was never given to the authority of the PA. Jews have as much (cntd
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@mistersumthing a right to live there - nay, a far greater right! - than Arabs.(2) The UN's unbalanced and monomaniacal resolutions against Israel have turned the UN into a ludicrous self-mockery, a kangaroo court run by despots and kow-towing lackies. (3) The Arab population, long stagnant, only grew after the Jewish return home began. Britain then limited Jewish immigration while allowing Arabs to enter unchecked. (Continued)
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@mistersumthing At the time of the 1947 partition resolution, the Arabs were a majority in western Palestine while Jews were a majority in the area given them by the resolution and in Jerusalem.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 BIG SWING AND A MISS..... Nobody is desputing that Jordan taking The West Bank (Not Judea) was not legit. If you apply that same standard of law then the 48 borders are not legit as well because the extra 19% Israel took was taking land by war. This means Israel would have to return to the 47 Partition Plan Borders.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive The San Remo Resolution (see above) is the primoridal document from the perspective of modern international law.
From the perspective of primordial eternal law see the Book of Genesis.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gregorsamsa613 that tells me all I need to know about your intellectual level. thanks
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing You are very welcome. Any time. It has been a pleasure.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 that was sarcastic. but i should've realized you're not sharp enough to get that. have fun reading genesis
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing Oh my! You were being sarcastic? And there I was, speaking with my heart on my sleeve!
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 that would explain why your heads in your ass. And after all of your tirades we've established that you believe that religious zealotry justifies illegal occupation of Palestine. Your reasons to why Palestine shouldn't exist? In your view LAW or the UN are irrelevant (hence your justifications for illegal occupation). Your facts are selective: Jews in the area annexed to Israel was mostly new immigrants of less than 20 years. Your no scholar, just an idiot clutching his bible
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing The Arabs rejected a "Palestinian" state in 1948, never asked for one when Egypt & Jordan ruled Gaza and the "West Bank" respectively, and have followed a policy of rejectionism at the peace table despite Israel's many concessions over the years. Why? The Arab world cannot tolerate a Jewish presence in the Middle East. Muslim intolerance lies at the heart of the conflict. Yet the Koran acknowledges that the land belongs to the Jews: templemount [dot org/quranland
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago
@gregorsamsa613 this is boring because it's like debating with a 5 year old. You can go in the past all you like, and use religious books to validate all you want. The text of religious books didn't necessarily refer to the exact land/territory we now refer to as Israel or Palestine because there were no countries then in the context we describe them now. So thats a pretty vague and weak reference. if we accept that's irrelevant, there's no scholarship to your debate. just idiocy
mistersumthing 1 year ago
@mistersumthing What is the present but the sedimentation of the past?
The delineation of the boundaries of the land of Israel in the Bible is very precise and its contemporary correspondences quite clear.
gregorsamsa613 1 year ago