Bailing Out the Big Three American Automakers is a Bad Idea, Get Rid of the UAW

[bleh485]

*pretty useful comparison tool*

[bleh485]

Here's a little something else about today's domestic vehicles. For further info on how the big 3 stack up vs. foreign you can look it up urself or i've even found that vw.com has a pretty comparison tool although i've found it to be a little incorrect at times, as to be expected. Afterall, they are trying to get u to buy from them as apposed to others.

youtube.com/watch?v=iu3veyT1NA­A

[bleh485]

I think that the decision to bail them out was risky was the final outcome was the best it could've possibly been. For these reasons, I am glad that the US government made what is, in my opinion, the best choice for everyone.

[bleh485]

True, we as taxpayers have saved those millions of Americans their jobs. Plus they have paid back all their debts in full in case you haven’t heard and are actually turning better profits than Toyota in recent months.

So they've paid the taxpayers back in full and kept those millions of Americans employed?

[bleh485]

Their vehicles, if u also look that up, are up to par with nearly every foreign vehicle in their segment/class and in a number of cases better.

As far as the whole bailout thing goes u can look up how the big 3 help vs. hurt our economy while their in the black and see that they are the ONLY manufacturers in the world that actually have a positive effect on our economy while doing good. While doing good? but we just had to bail them out?

[bleh485]

If every American stayed loyal to their country then the big3 would've never had to go out of the country to afford themselves. That said, they really take care of their employees, do they not? BUT I would agree that maybe they've taken that a little too far. If u look it up they are still the most overall domestic making automakers so gotta give 'em props for that. They also hire more Americans than any other auto manufacturer in the world.

[AJstar9]

Ya it does pay to be in a union ..people should see that and join ..so u have rigths

[AJstar9]

Kind of funny it looks like you was wrong on all most every thing u said .....

[craternem]

"Labor unions are deciding how much they get paid instead of the free market."

That line says it all. That's one of the things that will bankrupt a company. And now, we the taxpayers can become bankrupt thanks to Bush's and Obama's bailouts of GM.

GM should have been allowed to file bankruptcy, so the company could reorganize into one whose job it is to make cars for a profit.

[597914]

@craternem Where have you been? GM did file bankruptcy. Emerged in less than 90 days. And if you didn't notice has been making money. They did reorganize and even BEFORE bankruptcy the UAW agreed to concessions that included reduced wages, benefits and retirement. Labor unions actually negotiate contracts based on not only their worth, but the corporation's also. Labor unions dont "decide" what they get paid, that would be management's job. You really don't know what your are talking about do u?

[craternem]

@597914 Is every so-called "bankruptcy" guided by the White House the way this one was? In this bankruptcy, the union got essentially what GM owed it. But as of November 25th, original investors and bondholders got nothing. Where does that leave them?

[597914]

@craternem the original investors and bondholders...are you serious? wow...yeah, I feel so bad for them.

[597914]

@craternem what did the UAW get? can't you read what I wrote? We gave up wages and benefits. You are on a one way track that can't and won't listen to the other side of the truth. How simple and myopic to attack the unions without knowing the facts ...or reporting them truthfully, all to feed your agenda.

[craternem]

@597914 the uaw got shares of stock, and lots of it, given to it by the White House. The UAW is free to sell its stock, as it did with $3.4 bill worth, which went into its hlthcare and pension trust fund. You did not address the other stockholders and investors. The taxpayers got some back. The government sold 1/3 of its shares, but for the taxpayers to break even, the remaining 2/3 would have to be sold at between $52 and $103 per share.And I think the concessions will be reclaimed soon

[597914]

@craternem none of that is showing up in my paycheck, even if it is true....all I know is I didn't give myself a raise like they did and I dont make $70 an hour either. Instead of worrying the auto bailout that saved some jobs, why dont you go looking for the 600 billion spread out on wall street that will NEVER get paid back and isn't helping anybody!

[CrazyChitTV]

Well this girl isn't very well read. Ford didn't need or take any Obama money. And Ford is profitable again. Obama's car companies will never be.

Japanese cars do tend to be poor quality actually. Look at Toyota lol. But yes the UAW sucks.

[themange59]

you go and build cars for 4 dollars an hour (if you're lucky) working overtime (with no compensation) with no health benefits and try to support a family working 80 hours a week. Oh yeah, you say your son just turned 6? well he can almost read "the cat in the hat" with no help so it's about time he got a job too.

^an example of how the US would look like without unions or labor laws. What you're vouching for is basically the destruction of the middle class.

[sbkarmen]

there's nothing like a smart good lookin' girl making sense!

[597914]

What about how Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and VW have taken $3 billion frrom 3 states and virtually bankrupt the education system in many of those state's communities by sucking up all the tax revenues? that's not how the Big 3 do business. Foreign Co's set up shop in depressed areas and leech off the people. Where is your vlog on that? I'd like to see that. But that's not your agenda.

[noideaorig]

Mam you should read more. Corporate greed is unsustainable. Workers worked for their job bank, CEO's kick their feet up and collect dividends and benefits.

[fenderboy88]

It amazes me that there are still politicians from around the world today that still push for Protectionist policies.

Yeah bailing out Auto companies is ''crony capitalism'',when i was younger and more naive i always thought that bailouts and stimulus was meant to ''save capitalism'',what a load of croc.

Most economists as far as i know support free trade.

[597914]

This lady never lets the facts get in the way of her argument. 7 weeks vacation? NOT 4 weeks max with 20 years service. And that is for current tier 1 wage($28 / hr). 2nd tier gets paid $14 /hr and less benefits. AND it isn't a bailout it is a LOAN paid back with $700 milion interest (by GM alone) ! The UAW has made several concessions recently to help the American companies become more competitive. VEBA and wage concessssions and benefits. Where is her vlog on that?

[BudWithBeats76]

@597914 So nice of the UAW to close the barn doors after the horses got out.

[AJstar9]

ford stock just shot up to 14.43 not bad for a uaw company whos stock was a 1.25 hey smart guy i bought $25,500 worth at $1.25 now its 14.43 can u add how much i made while your kissing honda ass

[43m1garand]

WOW!!!!! That is high - not. Honda's stock price is $35.96. It was $22. Don't worry. Ford's stock will go down again. Have a nice day!

[AJstar9]

you talk big to a guy whos got over $250000 in stock.buy the way honda isnt even in the top 3

[AJstar9]

if honda is better way cant they out sell ford

[43m1garand]

Honda never took a bailout. Honda has never laid anyone off or had a strike. Honda's sales actually increased while all other car manufactures sales decreased by double digits. Honda is the best on earth.

[AJstar9]

hey dumb ass i never said ford made a tempo in 2000 i said its been way over 10 years .i work in chicago 551 where do you work,im getting bored figthing with some one with no facts and is lame

[43m1garand]

HA HA! You work at Ford Chicago Assembly. You were probably laid off. I've been there a lot. You guys had over 700 people laid off 2 years ago. Last year went down to one shift 4 days a week. Now up to 5 days. Currently Ford is offering $10,000 for every $1/hour pay cut. If you don't think I've been there I can tell you how to get there and what the place looks like. I know people there too.

[43m1garand]

I know more than you think. I've been to a lot of Ford plants. Lima Engine, Sharonville Transmission & Chassis, Livonia Transmission, Louisville Assembly, Kentucky Truck, Wayne Assembly, Dearborn plant, J Shop in Pontiac Mi, three plants in Sterling Heights, Mi, Claycomo, Mo, and Auto Alliance in Flat Rock, Mi are some that I've been to. Been to a lot of Chrysler plants too.

[AJstar9]

go at nameing ford plants,now name the 4 u said was in ohio.u cant there is only 2 like i said

[43m1garand]

You're stupid. Do you actually work at Ford ? I doubt it. I never anything about 4 plants in Ohio. Stop using crack. There are more than two in Ohio. Lima Engine - Lima, Sharonville Transmission & Chassis - Sharonville, Cleveland Engine - Cleveland, Econoline vans made in Avon Lake - used to be made in Lorain, Thunderbird plant in Lorain is closed - now has other businesses in there.

[AJstar9]

your boring and not saying anything about what the video is about.guess when your wrong on fact thats all you can do.

[43m1garand]

You know I am right. That is why you have nothing to say. I proved you wrong on every point including UAW pay which is $78/hr with benifits and pension counted in.

[AJstar9]

it is not but maybe we can go on strike and get it.

[AJstar9]

with the way things are going looks like we are getting a raise in 2011 love being in the UAW

[43m1garand]

You are not getting a raise. Ford is having people take pay cuts. Ford is offering $10,000 for every $1/hour pay cut. Kentucky Truck where the Super Duties, Expeditions, and Navigators are made is packed full of trucks that are not selling. I was there last week. Ford is cancelling the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Town Car, Explorer, and Explorer Sport Trac. The two plants (one in Canda for the cars and Louisville Assembly for the trucks) are closing.

[43m1garand]

You didn't say that. You said the Tempo was made 10 years ago.

[AJstar9]

no i didnt loser

[AJstar9]

your nuts i didnt say that go back and read,u said you would buy a ford because your tempo was shit.i said they havt made a tempo in over 10yrs .guess your trying to forget im rigth on every thing

[43m1garand]

Either you are using drugs or confusing me with someone else. I never said I owned a Tempo. I said I owned a Ford. I never said what model. I didn't say I would buy a Ford. I said I would NOT buy a Ford again. I've owned GM cars too and they were junk also.

[43m1garand]

I think it's funny morons keep saying buy American when they buy Canadian and Mexican. My Honda Accord has more American content than the junk the UAW makes. A lot of so called American cars are made with a lot of Canadian and Mexican parts. Or completely made in Mexico or Canada. Fusion, Milan, and MXZ are made in Mexico. Camaro, Flex, MKT, Edge, and MKX are Canadian along with many others. My Accord is 70% American. It's assembled in America. Engine and transmission are made in America.

[43m1garand]

UAW workers get 95% pay for unemployment for layoff too. And their cars are unreliable junk.

[AJstar9]

YA YOU SHOULD JOIN A UNION.

[43m1garand]

No. I want to have a job. If I want to loose my job I will quit instead of paying somebody to loose it.

[AJstar9]

FORD IS MORE RELIIABLE NOW THEN TOYODA

[43m1garand]

Ford is not more reliable than Toyota. I owned a Ford. It was very unreliabe.

[43m1garand]

You can't even spell Toyota.

[AJstar9]

so does toyoda

[bestwayusa1]

In texas and other southern states many of the home owners now fly the japanese flags in front of there homes. Stop the bleeding of USA Jobs. Buy Domestic American Made in stores and on line. Dont be like a Judas like many have become to there own country. USA country first!!!

[brpadington]

Why should they bail out a dying company? They have proven that they cant compete. The cost of union labor is a big factor in the profits of the big 3 but the real issue is the fact that people dont want the cars that the big 3 are making. Another factor is the emissions standards that cause newer vehicles to get worse gas mileage and it makes them harder for you to fix yourself.

[wiljamrh]

no brains dont know what shes talking about

[mscudagal]

Part 2- Nissan, Decherd, TN, 1995, $200 million** Toyota, Buffalo, WV, 1996, more than $15 million Honda, Lincoln, AL, 1999, $248 million Nissan, Canton, MS, 2000, $295 million Toyota, Huntsville, AL, 2001, $30 million Hyundai, Montgomery, AL, 2002, $252 million Toyota, San Antonio, TX, 2003, $133 million Kia, West Point, GA, 2006, $400 million Honda, Greensburg, IN, 2006, $141 million Toyota, Blue Springs, MS, 2007, $300 million Volkswagen, Chattanooga, TN, 2008, $577 million

[mscudagal]

Part 1: Partial list of US taxpayer subsidies given to foreign transplants that never have to be repaid. Honda, Marysville, OH, 1980, $27 million* Nissan, Smyrna, TN, 1980, $233 million** Toyota, Georgetown, KY, 1985, $147 million Honda, Anna, OH, 1985, $27 million* Subaru, Lafayette, IN, 1986, $94 million Honda, East Liberty, OH, 1987, $27 million* BMW, Spartanburg, SC, 1992, $150 million Mercedes-Benz, Vance, AL, 1993, $258 million Toyota, Princeton, IN, 1995, $30 million

[mscudagal]

How cheap do you think those foreign cars are going to be once the big 3 are decimated? Will their foreign country keep SUBSIDIZING<(A new word for you) the cars they dump on our market too? Foreign cars are killing the American dream and American manufacturing base. If people like you had your way their would be no manufacturing base left in America everything would be made in other countries and Americans would be living in poverty. You really need to learn the facts and stop spreading lies.

[mscudagal]

There is not one bit of truth to anything you said. It's uneducated people like you who spread lies about the American auto industry which hurts the American workforce and manufacturing base. I think the UAW should file a slander and deflamtion suit against you.

Every foreign car that is bought puts Americans out of work. The profits are sent back to their foreign country ruining our economy. The big 3 accounts for over 3 MILLION American jobs and is one of the last manufacturing bases left.

[spalderz]

Other countries have foreign cars in their markets too! It doesn't cause their local automakers to have so much trouble.

in US, the big three are being uncompetitive in their OWN country and people like you keep blaming the foreign automakers.

UAW needs to know that life is hard. Even if they're bailed out, who's gonna buy their crappy cars? Besides, the government don't even have the money to bail them out. Is it good to keep borrowing money from other countries?

[wiljamrh]

Oh, BTW UAW workers make LESS, than toyota workers when toyota's bonuses are added to their yearly pay. The so called $73.00 an hour jobs you stated is a flat out LIE they do NOT exist, never have never will. If they did UAW workers could sue for unpaid wages. UAW workers make right at $28.00 per hour. And NO one fired is ever in the job bank. You have NO clue about anything and have stated nothing but LIES.

Your rhetoric and lies have left you open for slander and deflamtion of UAW workers.

[wiljamrh]

You have no idea what you are talking about. 7 paid weeks? NO ONE gets 7 weeks of vacation, the max is 4 weeks and you have to be there 20 years to get the 4 paid weeks paid. And by the way uaw is not over paid. 52.000 a year is not to much to get for working on the line. And toyota makes the same pay as the big 3. Do your home work you moron :-)

[poppacooter]

labor on a uaw car is only 6% throughout the rest goes to greedy managment you need to get your facts right also no one gets 7 weeks vacation time. if we go out all of america will fall financially and your family will be unemployed also, it rolls down hill dear. think about what your saying they wont lower the cost of the cars even if there is no uaw.

[hoardpm]

you are very ignorant. Not everything you see on TV is true. Also, it isn't a bailout...it is a loan. It has to be payed back. Furthermore, I work for the only one of the B3 that didn't take any money and we are still giving concessions. FORD

[sidewinderleftist]

yeah i mean you never had to work manual labor in your life so in your idiotic mind who needs a union right?

keep blogging on the computer and the camera your sugar daddy bought you you fucking bitch

[mangeymoose]

You want me to not be disrespectful to a person that is trying to justify cutting the wages and benefits of tens of thousands of jobs ? How can I respect someone who bases their opinion on what they hear on television ? Why can't you climb on the people in charge of the Big 3 for gross mismanagement ? Why is it the workers fault and why should they be penalized for something they had no control of ? If your boss screwed up the company would you take a pay cut to bail him out ? Same thing.

[mangeymoose]

Not a bailout.....A LOAN !!!! Did bankers and their cronies take a wage cut when they got their BAILOUT ?? NO....and nobody said a damn word. The Big 3 are getting a LOAN.....BIG difference !!!!

[lulunarf]

I oppose all government intervention into markets, including loans and bailouts.

[mangeymoose]

You really don't look that dumb in your picture. Don't you know that the entire middle class of the USA was built by and around the UAW ?? Workers just put together the car with the parts given to them by magt. and designed by the engineers.....which are all top SALARY personel. You can't blame the line worker for inferior parts or crappy design. Now, go cook your old man supper and clean the house. You are spending entirely too much time on this computer when you could be doing laundry !!!

[lulunarf]

Any good points you might make are negated by your disrespectful comments. I think you're trying to be funny but it's not working. Try for a respectful debate.

[AJstar9]

i sent u some facts and i was very respectful

[597914]

@lulunarf actually I think there are significant points you never address. You are quick to blame the UAW but you don't even know our actual wage, vacation, etc.. Even before you posted this false blog the UAW had mde several concession to wages & benefits to remain competitive.What about the cost of salaried labor? union labor is NOT the problem. What is your agenda? Obviously the industry is proving this vlog untrue one yr later. Nice job Nostradamus.

[spectre1234]

You need to do some research into how non-unionized workers, past and present, have been treated. You have obviously never had to work very hard for anything in your life.

[mangeymoose]

Nobody wants to buy American made cars ? Why is GM outselling Toyota and is still the # 1 automaker in the world ? Are you as dumb as you look ? Get back in the kitchen where you belong !!

[Bassmarko]

I am ready for all the bad economic fallout if it means the UAW goes away forever. We have the technology to build better cars then even Japan but cant afford to. I wonder how the UAW and the auto workers feel about being one of the key reasons this country will no longer make cars. Shame on the UAW. The kicker is my taxes will go towards the retraining of auto workers. Dont even get me started on the teachers unions.

[mangeymoose]

You must work at a gas station or something because it's so obvious you know nothing about unions. That's why you make minimum wage..... and, old buddy,  it's called organizing and it's everyone's right to do so. Gas station attendants and drive-up window workers at McDonald's have just never figured it out.

[Bassmarko]

I in fact work in IT and make a good living. I do not belong to a union yet I have great compensation. I have this because I add value and the company wants me to stay. Unlike you who the company would fire if they could. They would Im sure reward valued employees the same way I am. Unions protect unskilled labor and artificially inflate the compensation through extortion. Ask yourself what kind of non union job you could do and make the same money? I thought so...

[mangeymoose]

I am a journeyman electrician (35 YRS.). Do you have a problem comprehending what you read ? I have a side business that grosses 4 million $ per year ! I make a lot more at my business than I do at Chrysler, moron. And, unskilled labor is the exact reason unions are needed. That way some jerk like you can't fire somebody that has on shoes that you don't like or you find out he's screwing your wife because you have a tiny dick !! He should not lose his job because you have a tiny dick !!

[Bassmarko]

Oooh! Someone is a little touchy. Based on the personal attack I can see you are very insecure. Now when I see your comments I will consider the source and move on.

We need real Americans who are willing to make changes for the betterment of everyones life not just their own. You need to man-up and be constructive and not a burden on your fellow man. A great book to read now is called The Forgotten Man. We are making all the same mistakes.

[sanitman1]

Union brother I'm with you..Lets give them hell...!

[AJstar9]

we are NEVER GOING AWAY AND WE AT FORD BUILD BETTER CARS AND TRUCKS THEN ANYBODY >GUESS YOUR MAD I MADE MORE MONEY THEN U>

[TranCendenZ]

AJstar9: Ford does NOT build better cars. My Ford Tempo caught on fire and the fire department had to come put it out. Luckily, I was parked outdoors on the street. If I had parked the Ford in the garage, it might have burned the house down. If you own a Ford, then you should also own a fire extinguisher.

[AJstar9]

dont think they built tempo in 10 years get with the new ford stop living in the past

[TranCendenZ]

AJstar9: If you ate in my restaurant 10 years ago and got food poisoning, and you were hospitalized and stuck with a hospital bill for $5,000, would you eat at my restaurant today if I told you, "That was 10 years ago that you got sick eating food in my restaurant. We passed the health inspection and serve healthy food now, so stop living in the past"?

[AJstar9]

ya if the food is better than the other restaurant and rigth now looks like alot of people getting sick eating at toyota

[TranCendenZ]

AJstar9: At least Toyota is doing a recall and fixing the problem for FREE. When my Ford had problems, I had to PAY for the replacement parts and labor.

[43m1garand]

You are not an auto worker. Ford Tempos were not built in 2000. They stopped being made in 1994. You don't the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground.

[AJstar9]

make that 16 years im sorry.

[Bassmarko]

You build better cars and trucks because you are union or because you are good at your job? The way I see it if you are good you dont need union protection. Only unskilled deadbeats need union protection. Ford's operations in other countries like Brazil without the UAW dictating how they manufacture do a better job. These facilities are state of the art and blow US production away. I agree Ford has a bright future but domestic auto production does not. Sorry

[Bassmarko]

I would also like to say I am very proud of Ford for not taking any government money. I may trade my Lexus in for a ford some day. I think they are doing a great job. I just dont think we can compete with the world on labor. Welcome to the NWO and the new world economy.

~peace

[FlintPublic]

You want to deregulate markets? You want to play anarcho-capitalism? How 'bout we remove those confining rules, regulations and restrictions from the U.S. Labor Market? If you thought Sarbens-Oxly made it hard to breath, you should try on Taft-Hartley. Half-hearted Libertarian hypocrites. Gotta love em.

[lulunarf]

I'm confused by your comment. Could you please explain?

[FlintPublic]

As Americans, we have the RIGHT to organize and bargain collectively the price of our labor. You, as a self-described libertarian/anarcho-capitalist­, should support that RIGHT and let labor/capital dynamics play out, unfettered, in the free space that real libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism require. Anything short is simply more water-carrying for the bossing class.

[lulunarf]

The two bills you mentioned are laws that determine what a private business can and can't do. That's regulation. Libertarians are against government regulation of private businesses.

A worker doesn't need a union, a government-created distortion of the free market, to negotiate benefits and wages in a system of free enterprise.

[FlintPublic]

So you're for the repeal of Taft-Hartley then, yes?

PS: Governments didn't create unions. Free Americans exercising their rights did.

[lulunarf]

Unions need government intervention in the free market to establish themselves and to survive.

[FlintPublic]

Not in your anarcho-capitalist utopia. But in the here and now, so do corporations.

[sanitman1]

Yes to protect their members from being exploited from ruthless corporate thugs

Matewan: coalmine workers 1920s

[AJstar9]

its not a free market if others play by different rules like not letting are cars in there markets or putting high tarfs on are cars

[lulunarf]

I couldn't agree more AJstar9. Tarrifs are the opposite of free market and I oppose then just like I oppose labor laws. I oppose any distortion of the market. BTW, those tarrifs are a great example of corporatism, where corporations like Ford and Toyota appeal to governments to create laws that make it harder for their competitors to do business. I'm clearly against that as well.

[43m1garand]

Who creates jobs? Last time I looked it was corporations not the government.

[lulunarf]

In a free-market system, if a worker doesn't like anything about their job, they're always free to go get another one.

This is evidenced by the fact that union membership is declining rapidly in this country.

Only by eliminating labor laws can you truly allow "labor/capital dynamics (to) play out, unfettered, in the free space that real libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism require."

[sanitman1]

This statement is pure stupity..Fantasy..!

The Jungle by Upton Sinclair

[sanitman1]

Labor experts are predicting a number of significant changes in labor law in 2009 following the election of Democrat Barack Obama as president and increased Democratic control of Congress. The most dramatic shift will likely come through a bill named the Employee Free Choice Act, or EFCA, that would make it easier for unions to organize

[sanitman1]

By eliminating labor laws you can expect a repeat of the environment that created the labor movement in the first place...! Throughout human history,man has exploited his fellow man for religious,political and now monetary gain..! The more things change the more they remain the same...!

[AJstar9]

yes union membership is declining so is the us standard of living .but company's profits are setting recoreds

[AJstar9]

your rigth union membership is declining and so is wages.

[lulunarf]

Thank you so much everyone who has expressed opinions and added to the debate in a respectful way. I really appreciate your feedback.

[loopedr1]

lulunarf for president.....thank you....

[CarlysChannel]

Another MISINFORMD IDIOT!

[Puntsok4]

The main issue is why should the rest of the country have to bail out these companies who are driving themselves into the ground.What right do they have to expect us (most whom make less) support others who won't even consider a paycut to help themselves. THAT is the real issue. If you are not a part of the solution you are a part of the problem! Yes it will affect parts suppliers & other businesses so maybe the union need to think about them instead of using them for self interest

[ANGLEBOOT]

in the non-union world people can negotiate thier own wage the day they hire on. if you area good negotiator or have a better education. You can negotiate a better wage than someone that has been working for that company for ten years.

Same as for me as a union worker, but as a collective bargaining agreement(people that group togather, to negotiate their minimum wage). And not allow the government or companies dictate your minimum wage.

This is the United States(a "union" of states).

[GenXintrovert73]

Employees working for Honda/Toyota in the US are paid based on their skills and the wages set for that job, not what the UAW strong arms the company into paying.

Benefits are not free, somebody has to pay for them and the UAW agreement says GM pays,when a worker is promised 110% of their salary at retirement, who pays for that. The fact of the matter is that GM workers pay very little for their benefits which means the company has to pay, which means higher priced cars.

[ANGLEBOOT]

Us workers that are working for a Jap auto maker in the US shouldn't get no more than Jap wages anyway.

And I see you don't understand how a benefit package works. it's either pay to the employees or held from their wages and is payed by the employor. Same as my retirement is do. If it wasn't taken out of mine,I woyld get $3.85 put hourly on my check.

The unit price of a car has everything added to it.With a unit price of $5000 to build and a $30.000 per unit sell price.Why the high price?

[AJstar9]

toyota/honda are paid well because of the uaw .they fear if they dont pay there workers well they will vote the uaw in.and uaw worker dont get 110% of there salary at retirment what world u living in.after 30 years you get $1800.00.lots of company have 401k where they match we dont have that. if my benefits means higher price cars why are toyotas so high

[AJstar9]

honda and toyota dont get paid based on there skill they get paid well because there afaid of the UAW will be voted in,thats a fact.and works dont get 110% of salary at retirement they get around $1800 most being paid form goverment s.s.Now my salary is $1500 a week thats $6000 a mo. $72000 a yr. so i dont think u get 110% in retired

[lulunarf]

There are no pensions at my private-sector, non-union job. Pensions have been virtually phased out as inefficient in non-union industries.

It's not about deserved vs. undeserved. It's about economically feasible vs. unsustainable. Generous pension plans are economically unsustainable.

People have made good points about GM's cars. They sold as many cars as Toyota last year, and they may not be much worse. The difference is that Toyota made money last year while GM lost it.

[raycolondotcom]

Agreed, private sector jobs, non-union jobs like yours and mine do not have pensions. That being said, promises that were made to workers at a time in our history when pensions were the norm should not be compared to present day employment practices. New laws and policies are routinely grandfathered into existence so as not to encroach upon previous good faith negotiations. At this time, non-support of this industry would be short-sighted. There's more at stake here than GMs balance sheet. Ray

[sanitman1]

It has become economiclly unsustainable because of the tremendous gap between labor and management salaries..!! Don't forget the healthcare crisis...!

[AJstar9]

ford made money last year toyota didnt.fords making money this year toyota wont

[raycolondotcom]

Hi, I've always purchase American cars. The much-hyped quality gap is overblown. The primary reason for the higher cost per employee is that they have legacy costs related to retirees, which the foreign carmakers operating in the US do not have. Do those retirees not deserve to have the pensions that they have earned? Foreign carmakers with plants in the US are subsidized by the states - with tax dollars. Why was there no talk of employee pay rates prior to the huge financial bailout? Ray

[TranCendenZ]

raycolondotcom: The southern states that subsidized the transplants did so with THEIR OWN tax dollars. Alabama didn't use federal money or Michigan's money. Why should the people of Alabama be forced to give their hard-earned money to their financially irresponsible competitor in Michigan?

[sanitman1]

Don't forget the Japanese government subsidized the healthcare for these nonunion workers in these southern auto plants...!!

[ANGLEBOOT]

LOL no one wanting to buy American made cars.

Wet to buy a new truck(yes a big V8) had to wait 4 hours to get in to see the manager. Salesman had all my paper work done just had to wait hours just to sign the papers.

WHY? the line was out the door from all them people that don't want to buy American made cars.

Don't let what you see on the news fool you.

[ANGLEBOOT]

Where are you getting all these numbers from. Hell we would all be union auto makers if all union auto makers made $75. and hour.

you don't even know the per unit cost to make a car, but yet you spout out all kinds of number from thin air.

[TranCendenZ]

ANGLEBOOT: It's $75/hour "total compensation".

UAW workers make $75 per hour (wages + benefits + bonuses), compared with about $48 per hour (wages + benefits + bonuses) for the workers manufacturing foreign cars in the United States. We poor taxpayers should NOT subsidize the UAW workers' $75 per hour total compensation!

[ANGLEBOOT]

Talked to some of my friends that work for GM/Arlington,They said they make $28 an hour. That is a far cry from the $75 you are saying. yours would make them to be making over $150K a year in gross income. No auto worker makes that much.

The wages aren't that much bigger than what Honda,Toyota,and other foreign manufacturers pay employees in their U.S. factories. Which is around $24or$25.

The money you are talking about is the same money every company charges,but don't give to their employees.

[TranCendenZ]

ANGLEBOOT: Union workers who have been around longer make more. Also, the $75 includes retirement benefits. They don't receive all of the $75 at once, but they do receive it.

[ANGLEBOOT]

I'm no automaker, but I am union. Get payed $4 less than most auto makers. I don't get no $70 to $75 dollars an hour.

you are counting what they want get if they were getting an hourly wage along with their retirement benefits at the same time. Sorry it don't work that way. but you don't even know how much is put into the retirement benefits per hour.First you have to get a copy of the local unions contract.Without that you can only say what you have heard. Most of being toal hear say and B/S.

[AJstar9]

no the 75 is counting past workers and thats not fair to count it like that.if it was true i would pay taxs on it .plus every body up north makes more that people in the south.dr.teacher mailmen.the cost of living is higher

[AJstar9]

bull crap thats counting pasted workers to.thats not fair adding someone else benefits in with mine.toyota dont have that cost because that have no one retired

[43m1garand]

That is not what is counted. You can lie all you want. When Rick Wagoner became CEO of GM he said he thought he was running a car company not health care. Health care is a huge cost at GM.

[AJstar9]

they fired rick because hes a dumb ass.and it is to counting past workers heath care and retiredment every body knows that.but lets say your rigth y are u mad at me because i make more than you.ford pays me not you.and ford has never taked a bailout and nevery will.ford is the number one in usa.ford number one gm number 2 and toyota number 3 kind of funny 2 out of 3 is uaw.guess i will LOL all the way to the bank

[43m1garand]

GM was losing $4 billion a year in 2004 due to retirees and probably more now. That is not counted in your pay. That is a cost of GM.

[43m1garand]

Toyota is the largest auto maker worldwide. GM is second. VW third. Honda sixth. Honda is the world's largest manufacturer of engines, over 14 million a year. Honda is the world's largest motorcycle manufacturer. Honda also makes jets and robots. Ford, GM, and Chrysler do not.

[AJstar9]

and i glad its a huge cost on GM and not the working men and women.maybe they can cut down on the big jets.and $2000 dinners

[43m1garand]

DUH! You're brilliant. A huge cost for GM means people getting laid off. Nice to know you care about workers so much.

[AJstar9]

and the got paid about 65000 dollars for loseing there job

[AJstar9]

its a huge cost to every body dumb ass

[AJstar9]

we dont make 75 thats a lie there trying to add past workers retirement on with are.see we been around 100 year toyota about 20 so they have nobody retired yet

[AJAX556]

I'm watching the Senate right now...they're a bit deadlocked.

Oh, Reid just got up.

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And yes this is a bad bill.