Call for Discussion / Call to Action: Alternatives to Youtube required

[BlanFan2O]

I like your accent, it sounds german. all I want is a site like what youtube used to be. a site where everyone makes videos and gets views equally. youtube has, in a way, become like a mix of a fascist and communist country(I'm not comparing the severity of the actions of the three). the partners(favored party members) are treated better than the regular youtubers(proletariat). youtube is the party and it is a single- party system. there is no REAL competition and the users have no where to go.

[KARIN094]

Bandwidth for videos isn't cheap! Nor, is running and maintaining the servers holding the website(s).

I like the wiki+video idea! If I could come up with an immediate income stream from this venture I certainly would be interested in building this type of community! Who wouldn't! A community that is free to speaks one's mind is quite an exhilarating idea.

[kurtilein3]

i didnt do the math, but you can do it if you like: calculate the difference in global traffic between youtube (rank 3) and wikipedia (rank 8). now imagine this difference going to a new website instead of youtube, and calculate which rank this new website would get, while youtube only went down 5 ranks and is still in the top 10.

i dont see how youtube could be destroyed just because 100.000 people, or a million, move to a different website.

[kurtilein3]

0zyzzyz0: sooner or later i will move, so my youtube-channel will sooner or later be abandoned (i wont take the videos down unless i upload them elsewhere, so they wont be lost). its not just freedom of speech, there are other things that can be done better than youtube does it.

[kurtilein3]

0zyzzyz0:

the problem are the youtube policies, youtube does have the power to change them. if we threaten to move, or if we actually organize to get moving, this will be a very strong message for youtube. maybe they give in. and if they dont, then even if only 1% of the youtube-community moves to different websites, this will mean a huge change for those websites. i mean, youtube has an global alexa traffic ranking of 3, while many other (potentially better) websites are around 1000-3000.

[TheTruePooka]

Well... the problem here is I'm not aware of any similar video sharing website that's the size of youtube in terms of usership.

What we should do is get one of the lesser sized sites that DOES have free speech to advertise through us users here on youtube that we're welcome there.

Perhaps we could do a mass Exodus then.

The problem is motivating users in mass to act. Right now, we're just a pissed off rabble. We need to become a unified force.

...are there free speech sites?

[kurtilein3]

thetruepooka: there are websites that are much better when it comes to freedom of speech.

youtube does not review videos that are selected for automatic takedown by their algorithms, no person actually watches them, so all the false positives hurt the community by causing illegitimate suspensions.

on other websites, all questionable videos are being reviewed by actual human beings.

your idea is similar ti my idea, im currently trying to find out which website we could promote.

[TheTruePooka]

First; let me say that I oppose any limits to free speech.

However, here's an interesting (well, perhaps interesting) point:

Does you tube actually promise free speech in its by laws?

[kurtilein3]

thetruepooka:

``Does you tube actually promise free speech in its by laws?´´ no. youtube isnt doing anything illegal.

but when we see that youtube does things that show that youtube does not care about freedom of speech at all, which is the case right now, we can move to different websites that do really care about freedom of speech.

[SaimDI]

I agree with Kurtilein. Although YouTube doesn't do anything ILLEGAL, but it is doing things that I do not support.

I've started posting my videos on LiveLeak, so far it seems to be going pretty well...

[VoicesintheHead]

It's all about the venue. Youtube is the town hall. Its where most people will listen to you. But this "town hall" is enforcing rules to accommodate children and sensitive people. The question is: should we stay at this town hall and work with the new rules, or should we look for another venue where it will be harder to hear us? We could, in the long run, make another venue as popular as youtube. But it would take a long time.

[kurtilein3]

voicesinthehead:

thanks for commenting :)

those rules are not being implemented to accomodate children and sensitive people. why do you believe this?

it is clear that youtube wants to erode freedom of speech by implementing more and more policies of censorship that create chilling effect. they dont want us to talk about important topics, they want us to provide entertainment. our videos shouldnt criticize, or cause people to worry about real problems.

[kurtilein3]

do you think that youtube will give in, unless we actually threaten to move?

do you really think that freedom of speech does still exist on youtube? how often have you been suspended?

[angrylitlegir1]

YouTube should allow agnostics and religious people to express their views but it needs to limit long-term abuse.

Haters reupload humiliating vidoes, twist them, and have thousands of viewers trash users for years.

YouTube needs to remove reuploads of users' speeches without consent, espcially ones that distort their body image.

YouTube needs to filter swear words from video titles and comments.

My site defends an atheist that was abused off of YouTube.

Scott aka globetrvllr2

[kurtilein3]

i dont agree.

if you cannot handle criticism on the internet, you should not put yourself out there.

unless people actually promote violence or hatred, there is no reason for censorship. EVEN IF violence or hatred is promoted, the question if this would be more important than freedom of speech or not would still require discussion. bad word filters are completely stupid. this is destruction of freedom of speech in its purest form, completely unjustified and extremely damaging. fucktard.

[kurtilein3]

oh, i guess i just used a bad word ;)

even if i would have meant it seriously at the time i typed it, do you think that my account should now be suspended?

yes or no? freedom of speech, or a ban on evil words like: shit piss fuck cunt tits and so on.

[angrylitlegir1]

Filters prevent swear words from posting, not suspend accounts.

These videos are a form of long-term violence.

/watch?v=pATdBkJrKLg

People that show their face are often too scared to say anything because they know they'll be abused for years, often by thousands of commenters.

That's why you don't see videos like this anymore.

/watch?v=ShMlZsjBeec

People worry about swear words but they're silent when real content gets abused of YT.

/watch?v=4JuIlCTWldw

Scott

[willpoire]

Nothing will happen, I'm afraid. Youtube won't give in.

[aogilmor]

Yeah, I agree - before you worry about boobs and cuss words resolve this DMCA issue.

[ScientiaVeritasEtLux]

Has anybody ever told you that at certain angles in your videos you look exactly like Heath Ledger? haha, you really do.

But yeah, I totally agree that the new youtube "policy" is ridiculous and, I must say, to some degree, goes against the freedom of expression. It's kind of sad that youtube is doing this.

[GROUPUPLEAVEYUTUBE]

CHECK THE NAME

[shaybshay]

Well I've tried bliptv, vloggerheads and liveleak and it sucks trying to learn the in's and out's of a new site. I can't figure out for the life of me how to edit the video info I put up on liveleak, I click "edit media item" but it just opens a new window with nothing, but it's had lots of views and comments. bliptv was easy to figure out how to edit info but for some reason there is only one view on the same video. I haven't really tried vloggerhead yet as you have to wait to get approved.

[StoneThatRolls]

I will tell you what my problem with YouTube right now is....

The video and sound don't match up any more. Everything was working great just 6 months back. Now YouTube has added some new video code to their site,

I'm running Mac OSX 10.4.11 with all the latest updates. The latest update of Flash. And still the videos lag. ?? It seems to have gotten worse the last few weeks ?

I really don't want to buy a new computer and operating system just watch YouTube.

[isreasontaboo]

I tried Veoh but I got very few visitors only.

Same thing on Myspace. It's just a teen community not interested in more serious subjects.

[isreasontaboo]

If all the atheists leave YT it will turn into what it seeks to be: a closed community of delusional theists who only want to hear what fits into their comfort zone.

[kurtilein3]

isreasontaboo:

the problems here on youtube affect everyone, not just the atheists. the only people that wont be affected are the corporate channels uploading music videos and people that only do mindless entertainment. but all the communities are pissed off right now, the christians the atheists the conspiracy-people the philosophers the economists, everyone. if this turns into a movement, it will not stay in the atheist community.

[isreasontaboo]

But the outcome would still be the same. It will become an uniteresting place for the serious people, a popular place for the masses, to whom we won't be able to convey our message. Going to other sites is one thing, but what's the point if we don't have audience there? We need our message to be heard. I've tried veoh, and liveleak amongst others and always had very low view count.

[themilitantatheist]

I very much doubt that the "algorithmic demotion" is as algorithmic as they claim. The technology to allow such content based image search simply does not exist.

[kurtilein3]

themilitantatheist: they just announced that they will implement it.

they are google. maybe they just base it on a combination of the amount and the kind of flags the video gets, and then scan for acustic signatures of profanity, and then determine the likelyhood of pornographic images/video. all of that can already be done (more or less).

[themilitantatheist]

Meh. A system that would actually assist them to any meaningful degree with automatic classification of video based on content would far surpass the current state of the art.

Though flagging only produces a small subset, so if 10% of the "obvious" porn can be classified automatically I guess it might help...

If this truely is a new algorithmic approach then I hope google publish something in a journal...

[kurtilein3]

themilitantatheist:

i really dont know. but just look at the flagging-system and the DMCA-system: youtube clearly will implement algorithms EVEN IF the results really suck, and EVEN IF there are tons of false positives and false negatives.

i expect them to do exactly what they announced, they will attempt to adress the ``problem´´ algorithmically.

[jackhartcup]

does anyone have any suggestions as to where we could move to? if we all moved youtube might actually do somthing

[kekzzzz]

i think you should make this a video response to tfoots "Youtube is Dead" video.

[kurtilein3]

good idea,

done.

[jtp86]

I LOVE HOW FUCKING GERMAN YOU ARE!

[farvision]

He's from Australia ...

[kurtilein3]

im from munich, germany, i just moved my channel to australia because the germans couldnt stop complaining about my accent ;)

[toxaz00]

Na komm, der ist auch derbe. ;D

[PhilipEbanks]

Kurtilein's from Munich, which is in Germany dude. Regardless, he and Thunderf00t's videos on this serious matter of censorship have got several good points that the YT staff needs to hear.

[farvision]

I stand corrected! (Now, have you EVER seen a theist do that???)

[PhilipEbanks]

"Now, have you EVER seen a theist do that???"

I'm a theist, but that made me LOL.

[farvision]

Glad to be a source of amusement.

[rozeboosje]

Great video! I haven't explored alternatives yet, but I'd be looking for a diverse community, good community focused interactive features and good video quality. If we find a place with all that before YouTube wakes up and smells the coffee I'll be out of here too.

[Klingonmastr]

If you are looking for a community I don't know where else you would go? You have Livevideo but its mostly Vloggers and people talking too each other.

They featured some person doing "Video Killed The Radio Stars" with the music in the backround and a person on TV Lip Synching. Youtube would never feature something as bad as that.

You could also try Revver but its just a smaller version of youtube with CutewithChris, HappySlip, Whatthebuck, Sxephil, etc. but without a lot of the vloggers.

[chinbiter]

LiveLeak is mostly vloggers? You sure?

[chinbiter]

If I learned to actually read I would smell of awesome, as opposed to wee and cabbage.

[kurtilein3]

chinbiter: he said livevideo ;)

[chinbiter]

I realised that too late to save my non existent rep. As for the topic, go wherever you guys feel comfy. Here, someplace else, spread thy seed!

[rozeboosje]

> its mostly Vloggers and people talking too each other

Interesting. Just my cuppa tea. I'll go check it out.

[RictiusVarus]

right on, man. 5 stars..

[deconstrained]

Maybe we should make a "RationalisTube" or "SkepticTube" or "AtheisTube", in the way that Christians made the "GodTube" spin-off of YouTube.

[chosetec]

instead of shuttling us off to "atheistube" why don't the complainers go to godtube and leave youtube alone?

[deconstrained]

Because not everybody who gets all offended and butthurt over "inappropriate" or controversial content is a Christian. Nevertheless, what Google is doing to YouTube like telling a man he can't have a steak because a baby can't chew it.

[chosetec]

I guess we both want our steak, so we can agree on that. then let them form a 'bland-tube', safe for all ages. Under the old rules, there's nothing on youtube that isn't regularly seen in public.

[TheGodsEnvyUs]

Making an AtheisTube would be creating a comfort box just like GodTube.

[deconstrained]

That is a VERY good point.

And, the only Christians we'd ever run into on this hypothetical "AtheisTube" would be immature dicks with nothing better to do with their time, just like the Atheists who try to troll GodTube.

[kurtilein3]

thegodsenvyus: i agree. we need a diverse community, when i talk about religion then some theists should be listening as well.

[BobTKaye]

I reckon I'll support Liveleak. They deserve some reward for having the balls to broadcast Fitna even though the death threats were pretty much guaranteed. Even though they had to remove the video later, I think that they knew full well that the video would go viral within the hour so their removing it doesn't really count against them.

[Bluefinger1987]

Good vid, and I'm definitely testing the waters for a potential move. However, I don't make too many videos so it's not going to make a big impact directly on me, only really on the content I wish to view. I've sent Youtube what I think of their new upcoming policies, and I guess the only way to really get them to listen is to keep raising our voices until it gets too loud for Youtube to ignore.

[bcj999]

I like your tactics man. I hope that I don't sound self-defeating here but I think YT has an extremely tight grip on this whole "viral vid industry" or whatever you wanna call it. I've never been a fan of businesses of any kind getting too big. I think YT would have to get really weak before any of their competitor's have a serious chance of taking them on. Good video btw.

[kurtilein3]

bjc999:

first, the competitors need to grow. and this is exactly what we can do ;) we can promote them, using our youtube-channels. and as soon as there are more connections between youtube and this new website (we still have to find out which one), then every mistake youtube makes will cause additional movement. in the end, youtube might be fighting with a lot of competition, and this is how it should be like.

[TheGodBen]

A mass exodus of atheists from YouTube to escape oppression? And I thought we were trying not to be like religion. ;-)

We can probably move the atheist and scientific communities to other sites, but the sad fact is that we're all probably still going to have to use YouTube for a lot of the other crap we watch here.

[kurtilein3]

thegodben:

``A mass exodus of atheists from YouTube to escape oppression? And I thought we were trying not to be like religion.´´

think of it this way: we are a plant, growing and spreading into more fertile soil. this doesnt mean that our presence on youtube will die off immediately, but the activity when it comes to uploads and comments will be elsewhere. of course we will still leech the attention we get on youtube ;) you could also compare it to a shift of attention.

[kotk05]

If you make videos questioning or criticizing a religion like Islam, you get shut down. If you make videos acting like a complete dumbass, you get to be "All-time, Most Subscribed".

[kurtilein3]

kok05:

yes, maybe searching all the other video-sharing websites for controversial stuff that we are interested in, like quality-videos criticizing islam, might give us information about the quality of other websites.

[VoicesintheHead]

Great video kurtlein3. I only wish Youtube administrators would see this.

[ravingdead]

Without atheists, youtube would be fart jokes and politics. We make things a little more exciting

[kurtilein3]

ravingdead: the problem is not limited to atheists, those problems affect other groups/communities as well. my attempt to get the atheists to think about alternatives might be part of a larger movement, or the fundies just follow us. anyway, why not upload videos on two or even three different websites for a while? we dont need to abandon youtube completely immediately and leave all the attention to the fundies.

[ValeofAldur]

I'm not a lawyer, but as I understood the law they're required to take down the videos that are DMCA'd.

Then, the owner is one that's needed to file an DMCA response.

If you want youtube to have the option to review videos themselves, you'd need to get the DMCA law changed I think.

[InnocentByproduct]

I heard all you need do is flag a video as a "DMCA violation" and it gets pulled --no review, no warning, just pulled. And so all that power is in the hands of just one hater.

I personally think that if a DMCA report is later proven false (which some have been), then the person who falsely hit the report button needs to get permanently banned.

Maybe have a pop up box saying: "You are about to flag this video for a DMCA violaton. If your report turns out to be fasle, you will be banned."

[InnocentByproduct]

(SOrry, I had a spelling error.)

*"You are about to flag this video for a DMCA violation. If your report turns out to be false, you will be banned."

[ValeofAldur]

That's how I understand it too.

Filing a false DMCA report is illegal, and there can be legal consequences. See: Thunderf00t's famous incident with VenomfangX for details of that.

But, following through legally is a potentially lengthy and costly process. I for one would definitely support Youtube taking it on themselves to provide additional consequences for filing false claims that don't require a court of law.

[kurtilein3]

vale: they do not need to take down the video immediately, they are allowed a certain amount of time to review each case.

and then... if they just reject a DMCA and dont react, what happens? they can get into trouble only if the dmca is legitimate. they just need to watch the videos in question, and this is what they dont do, other websites do it, but they use systems, they dont pay people.

this way, false dmcas dont lead to a takedown. and you can punish people filing false dmcas.

[CognosSquare]

Id wait and see what is really meant with the algorithmically demotion.

Because if it just means demotion on the "100 most popular Comedy video"-list, then its does not matter so much.

I never find my subscriptions or videos that way.

[mykindom666]

You know what pisses me off the most about youtube's decision? The fact that they are stabbing some of the people who defended them during the viacom conflict in the back. They really are just a bunch of fuck-offs

[xXAkridXx]

I use daily motion

[kurtilein3]

akrid: is it good? how many views do you get there? how good is the message system, do they have forums? how much text interaction is there going on between users? do they have useful categories? what about censorship?

give us the relevant information, please ;)

[xXAkridXx]

It's not equal to youtube I'm afraid. I don't post anything there really, at least not yet. The comment system seems more or less the same as youtube's. I don't know if they have a forum. There is very little to no text interaction between users, at least on the videos I watch.

Despite that, the site does make an effort to be youtube like. It features videos on it's homepage etc. They seem to censor nothing. A lot less content on it than youtube, but it could grow.

[achampag]

great video and thanks for the wiki link to the list of other sites. i like this idea of looking around, will be doing so.

[dechha1981]

Unfortunately something happened to Rationalisttube, so that's sad. At the moment I've been talking to GoDaddy about the possability of possibly making my own website to I can upload whatever I want there and just put links to it here, but I've yet to decide if I'll actually do it.

There's also Wideo, which is a french site and seems to have far less strict censorship but I'm not entirely happy with them.

[abandonship42]

Hey kurtilein3! Any word on where we could go?

[kurtilein3]

abandonship42:

ill check out vloggerheads, i will record a video tomorrow. maybe you can try revver or blip?

i really dont know, the purpose of this video is to get people started when it comes to gathering this kind of information. in the description-box, there is a link to a list of video-sharing websites, on wikipedia, you could just try some of those links.

[abandonship42]

I'll try them both tomorrow. I checked out viddler and am waiting on an email about what they deem "obscene". Thanks!

[InnocentByproduct]

YouTube has four really huge things going for it:

1) It has the most awesome search engine in the world (Google's search engine).

2) It's ... free.

3) It's pretty darned fast considering how many millions and millions of people are constantly dancing through its servers at any given minute of the day.

and...

4) It's still THE video site for the whole world (none other comes close in popularity).

An alternative site MUST have 1, 2, & 3. And most importantly must come close to 4.

[kurtilein3]

innocentbyproduct:

on youtube, my first 3 videos got about 50-200 views combined, in the first few weeks, i dont exactly remember it.

on liveleak, my first video got over 2500 views on the first day. my second video got over 8000 views, third video 22000 views.

there goes point number 4. i want to reach people, more views = better, the size of the website isnt that important.

2 and 3: many (almost all)video sharing websites are like this.

1: im sorry, this one just isnt important for me

[InnocentByproduct]

But LiveLeak is not a "household word" while YouTube indisputably is --not just in America, in the world. Maybe you only got more views at LL by being "a big fish in a small pond." Since YT is STILL the mother of all ponds, YT--for my purposes--trumps LL. To draw an analogy: If you want to break into Hollywood, you need to live in Los Angeles. And if you want your videos to TRULY go viral, you need to be on YouTube.

Does ANYONE rival the far reach of YouTube? Convince me with HARD numbers.

[kurtilein3]

ok, hard numbers.

patcondell is active on youtube as well as on liveleak. look at his video views on liveleak. not that bad, really not that bad.

but liveleak is in my eyes still not good enough to be an alternative anyway. there are many more places where you can easily get 50000 views and 2000 subscribers, and the pond gets bigger as more fish grow in it.

[InnocentByproduct]

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear.

As far as the "hard numbers" I'm after:

1) How many nations of the world are represented at LiveLeak?

2) How much of a "household word" is LiveLeak?

3) How often does the Mainstream Media refer to LiveLeak?

4) How many actual people per day visit LiveLeak?

5) Do advertisers consider LiveLeak to be on par with YouTube as far as its daily traffic?

I know these are probably difficult numbers to try and nail down. But THAT is what I REALLy want to know.

[xXAkridXx]

Liveleak is pretty popular actually. Again you are saying that youtube is recognized. The reason youtube is big is because of us, the user base. If we go somewhere else and it starts to get popular then it becomes big. So I don't care if youtube is the most popular, we all know that, it's irrelevant.

[chinbiter]

I dunno the hard numbers but over the last few days I've spent a bit of time there (after seeing drama here). That site will never be a YouTube replacement, it's not an entertainment platform like this place. I guess it's great for more serious subjects and politics but for music vids and pure fun I would totally look elsewhere.

[bcj999]

Kurtilein, I remember you from LiveLeak. You posted videos on LL around the same time I did. I think seeing you on that site was actually the first time I ever heard of you. Funny how that works b/c 'everyone is here' and usually don't venture out to other places.

[kurtilein3]

bjc999:

you will see some familar faces on almost every noteworthy video sharing website out there. so there already is some interconnectedness, we just need more of it. we need more of those ventures to other places, and thats what i would like to accomplish now. but somehow liveleak just wasnt the thing for me.

[xXAkridXx]

1)This is important

2)About all video sharing sites are

3)It is fast because they can afford to be fast, because they are popular.

4)The idea is to shift the popularity to a less fascist video sharing site.

[thecoyote]

Another great video! I know youtube is getting pressure from corporations to be more friendly to all but editing our videos because of language goes against our right to freedom of speech. If we the users(the people that actually use this service),organize we can show we are not happy even if calls for a mass Exodus from youtube. I am tired of other people(corporations,government­,religions)telling me what I can or can't watch. I am adult let me choose! We have the power.

[kurtilein3]

thecoyote: and there are so many video-sharing websites out there, so many ideas, alternate ways to organize this...

we are here, because youtube is the biggest one. youtube is the biggest one, because we are here. now maybe a smaller website would be better, for the moment, and as soon as we did it maybe we will realize that now the new website is the biggest one, because this is where we are. we are the capital that makes youtube big, and if we decide to move then thats it.

[cpton]

yes freedom of speech is important, but YouTube is a commercial business. They have the right to limit speech on their site. If you really need to express yourself, then pay for hosting and build your own site....

[kurtilein3]

im sorry, my last comment was maybe a little bit too insulting, ill try again...

you make it seem as if there would be two options:

1.: accept the crap here on youtube

or

2.: pay for hosting and build your own site

you completely failed to understand what we are talking about. MOVING TO OTHER WEBSITES THAT ALREADY EXIST AND THAT ALSO HOST YOUR VIDEOS FOR FREE AND WHERE YOU ALSO GET LOTS OF VIEWS. your false dichotomy really shows that you are completely ignoring us.

[cpton]

I think you misunderstood me. I think a move would be great (I don't have an alternative), but yes a move would be excellent! I was replying to those who purport that YouTube is trampling on human rights. This is not the case. They are running a community by their rules, and no matter where you move to you will have to deal with someone's rules. Unless of course you make you own site...

A move would be great and I look forward to a more free speech friendly site. Sorry I offended.

[kurtilein3]

cpton: no problem. i agree with you on this one :)

when there is a diversity of websites, there will always be some that are more friendly and some that are less friendly to freedom of speech. and youtube seems to be near the end of the spectrum.

[TheAngryKraut]

What happens if you finde an alternative and that one gets popular? They get sucked up just as youtube and it´s only a matter of time till you have the same porbs there. Netnutrality is their Target. And we have to fight for that. They way I see it, this is just the start to reagulate Information and controling the Internet. I agree that a alternative would be better, but for how long?

[TheAngryKraut]

I will also link the Video that I made as response for Jesusfreak777. I don´t have time for a new one, but my points are in there^^

[kurtilein3]

theangrykraut: you can construct a similar argument to justify apathy and inaction in almost any situation.

examples: `why should we stop the iraq war? even if we succeed, how long until they just start another war?´ `why should we impeach corrupt politician XYZ? how long until his follower is just as corrupted as he is?´ `why should we try to use up less energy? if we dont use it, someone else that doesnt care will use it.´

how long would an alternative be better? potentially forever.

[TheAngryKraut]

Like I said, this is just the first step to take control over the flow of information or the internet as you like. And no matter where you go you can not hide from it. All I say is we have to unite to fight the cause not the symptom. Please don´t get me wrong... When the ISPs start to regulate what sides you can view and what sides not than there will be no alternative either. And I think stuff like the new rules are just the first step. Something has to be done I think we can agree that far.

[kurtilein3]

theangrykraut: now it gets difficult for me to follow you.

what could influence a website like this? the company running it, the people working there, and the country where the server is located. you have control over BOTH. sweden has almost no copyright-laws, for example.

in the case of youtube, the problems are caused by youtube, not by any laws. your talk about ISPs is completely unrelated, because NONE of the problems here on youtube are caused by ISP censorship.

[TheAngryKraut]

If you won´t to take away something from someone do it little by little, so chances are good he will not notice.

Maybe I´m thinking to fare in the future.

Back to topic:

I still believe Youtube is not a sunken ship yet. If there is an alternative out there I will check it out. But I still think Youtube can be improved to a better ans more fair place.

[Flerndip22]

djarm67 has also been suspended for a very long time. =(

[kurtilein3]

flerndip22: unfortunately i dont know this channel.

but every illegitimate suspension is bad news for freedom of speech, and most suspensions on youtube really seem to be illegitimate, unjustified and unnecessary.

[websnarf]

AARRRRGGG!!! djarm67 was *SUCH* a good channel. I am so steamed ... almost wish I didn't know this.

Unfortunately it was clearly a copyright violation channel. But what a loss ...

[InnocentByproduct]

As for the verb "to demote."

It's usually an action taken against a person (only sometimes is it an action taken against a thing). And the normal context is usually either the military or the corporate business world.

In the military, to get "demoted in rank" is to get lowered down from (perhaps) a captain to a lieutenant.

In business, to get "demoted in position" is to get lowered from (perhaps) a manager to an assistant.

In YouTube, to get "demoted" is (I guess) to lose awards.

[InnocentByproduct]

*after my work is done.

[InnocentByproduct]

Hi Kurtilein,

I find this YouTube policy very disturbing simply because (from what you are saying) they intend to employ a mindless computer to perform subjective value judgements. And I'll be betting there is zero recourse for any member to launch a dispute.

I will read your links later tonight after my works is done.

Regards.

--IB

[websnarf]

Zero recourse and YouTube policy? By now this should be recognized as a redundancy.

[ilovethepighat]

first!!!!!!

demotion is a pretty common word