Re: gracie/brazilian jujitsu is a FRAUD part 1 of 2

[rebeccaherbertbjj]

I know royler gracie and he is a nice guy. he handed me my yellow belt.

[rebeccaherbertbjj]

all martial arts are good. I like bjj and im 9. im not allowed to have a black belt until im 18 so that made no sense to me in the story. we are not a cult as far as I can see. kids from every arts come to my class and try it. I have tried some other stuff but I didnt like it because they stand in line, bow, yell yes sir, call the guy master, and all thats stuff we dont do in my class. we just learn how to do jiu jitsu. do what you like.

[BoneCrusherJiuJitsu]

i guess it was ''fraud'' when i broke some fools are in the streets...yup those popin and snaping sounds where just sound effects lol

[Schlomoasdf]

this is stupid. train what you think fits you and just fight it out.

[grozde]

The arguments - as presented (haven't seen the original) are dumb. The debunks - too...

[JEDI9AL]

Just to add: Marcelo Garcia is the best in the world to me! A lot of my tactics has been restrategized by him. Mercelo now has a dojo in the heart of NYC. He is living proof of a small man running through all the big guys like Royler Gracie. Standing only 5ft 5, and weighing just under 160. 2ndly, its confidence of your skill level will save you in life! I had to explain that to this green belt at Team Quest, we rolled, as a experience grappler, it is our obligation to coach up their confidence!

[JEDI9AL]

@JEDI9AL train every day if you can and everything else will follow. BJJ rocks!

[tombslasher]

To the internet fags bashing the gracies and bjj. The best thing for you guys to do is challenge the gracies or shutup. I am over these fat finger pushing fake internet tough guys. All they is just hot air and waste oxygen. I have met royce gracie when he came to my city and he is not a steroid type because he is a tall slim build person not a steriod nuckle head. I just think these complainers should just try another avenue for complainning and look at something else. Cheers to all m.A arts

[mrdubcrazy]

BJJ'ers are unable to accept criticism so one can never have a valid discussion or argument with them. To me BJJ is a Cult with world domination as it's central philosophy. It's all about marketing and popularizing the style as much as possible and relies on it's students to do just that. And they blindly defend their Cult, like the scientologists Mormons Jahovas witnesses etc... I mean Gracie Jujitsu University on-line....WTF! If that ain't a money making venture then i don't know what is!.

[cbproducktions]

@mrdubcrazy

BJJ is just a martial art. Idk what the Gracie JJ University is lol. BJJ is just a martial art that has proven itself time and time again of being 1 of the 3 most successful/important martial arts. The other 2 being Muay Thai and wrestling. Of course Sambo, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing, certain styles of Karate, etc. are also very good, but a fight has 3 aspects: Standing, ground, and transition. BJJ is the best art for ground fighting. 10th Planet JJ ftw

[womblewandering]

@cbproducktions I agree.

People say there are rules in the ring but of course there will be. Its about testing your martial arts skills as realistically as possible without the risk of killing each other. yes there are rules but there arent that many rules where it totally cripples your style.

Punchin, kicking, grapplin make up a good 85% of fighting so if a style was really that good, one doesnt need to kick someone in the balls to win. Bjj is a very good martial art. I respect it

[THROWDOWN619]

Royce taking steriods destroys the Gracie name

[jmpsaved]

@THROWDOWN619 I disagree. I believe it destoys HIS name

[mxmissle2]

Volgeblanc (whatever the fuck that is) You sound Mad, Did i hurt you widdle feelings? GOOD! now you want to fight me? Why because the truth hurts right? I know...Now go back to sucking Kano's Dick!!!

[mxmissle2]

@jukido987..I'm with you, Thanks to the Gracies for doing what they're doing. All these other Armchair Warriors & Internet Gangsters can kiss my ass with their "There's nothing like Japan" Bullshit! The Japanese don't give a shit about these idiots anyhow! At least the Gracies get out there and Teach with all they have and put it all on the line, but what do these clowns do but get on here and preach the "It all came from Judo" BS. Where it is now is what counts. Jealous Losers!

[jukido987]

@mxmissle2 ..Everyone is entitled to there own opinion. To me both Judo & BJJ are great and i train in both of them without discrimination, I also dabble in other arts as well. This to me this is what it's all about, Enjoying the training, sharing information and keeping an open mind. Martial Arts are beautiful, it's the people that really mess it up! I'll keep training though and discovering no matter what. Peace!

[Volgeblanc]

I practice both sides of Jiu Jitsu (Brazilian and Japanese), with the Gracies and the Machados in Brasil. You should come to Brasil, shut your insulting mouth and watch other brazilian styles beating the Gracies as well. Real Losers tend to ignore justice and peace, maybe their lives need more meaning, since insulting it's easy for them. Get a life, find a shrink!

[mxmissle2]

@Volgeblanc First of all. you're a Spanner! Second you can Shrink these balls with your mouth, you Japanese nut hugging Kook! First you get on your high horse and preach about Japan being the Father of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Now you say you studied with the Machados and the Gracies? Make up your mind idiot whose side you're on! Who gives a fuck about who beat who? Just practice Martial Arts and shut your Fuckin mouth you critical Asshole!

[Volgeblanc]

@mxmissle2 Only the cowards like you, hide behind a computer. Now, who's the a-hole? Where's your martial art's code.?You have no idea who you're messing with. Of course, you won't step forward and take a challenge, to a real match. No, you're crazy, not stupid, right? Since your insulting nature comes from a low-image, narcissistic, self-denied homosexuality, I suggest you take the path of Frontal Lobotomy, that will relax you for a while.

[jukido987]

This is getting ridiculous now...Volg, don't waste your time responding to non-sense like the other guy, i like our dialogue as it bridges gaps and create a rapport. Maybe one day we can meet in person and exchange ideas and techniques and maybe grab a bite. I'm in Chicago Man, if you're ever here, Hit me up. Take care Bro it's been fun!

[Volgeblanc]

Yep, you're right. Sorry about reading and responding to the other guy. Thanks for the invitation.That would be fun. I've been to Chicago a few times, a little familiar with Des Plaines area.

[jukido987]

I Know that area well, i'm not too far from there. I Look forward to our Meeting.

[ankokugaiBOSS]

When Royce Gracie and KIMO fought, Kimo did not throw punches. Although his style was listed as TKD, he did more grappling than he did vicious striking even when he had a chance to. Be that as it may, he STILL gave Gracie a hard fight that put him on the map. Also, when Gracie & Shamrock fought the second time, Shamrock gave Gracie a big shine on the eye. Shamrock is not technically a "striker". Had some boxer with Mike Tyson type strength hit him, he probably would have had a cracked eye socket

[AmericanPatriot0076]

bjj/gjj is a fraud & a scam. They are just recycled Judo moves. The gracies were taught by a JUDO master (Sensei Maeda). America falls for marketing, rather than facts.

[jukido987]

This Is Well Known Now. But The Moves are not recycled just an earlier version of Judo Called Kosen Judo (Which Is Judo Techniques Focused Strictly On Ground Fighting Or Ne Waza).

[Volgeblanc]

@jukido987 It's not that Jigoro Kano ignore Ne Waza or "earlier versions" of Ground Fighting. It wasn't his intention to have them in the format of Judo. He was an educator.

[jukido987]

Says Who? Please back this claim up with Historical Facts...Not trying to be a A-Hole or anything like that but Kano did intend for Groun Fighting to be included in His Judo, Infact He Spoke of this in some detail in an article published in "Living Age Magazine" in September 1922.." I Quote Kano "Judo is taught under two methods, one called randori, and the other kata. It includes throwing, choking, holding down, and bending or twisting the opponent's arms or legs." Sounds like Ne Waza to me.

[Volgeblanc]

Good, you acknowledge that Ne Waza is in Judo. But in Jigoro Kano's words: I teach Judo instead of Jujutsu." He furthers :"Randori, meaning "free exercise", is practiced under conditions of actual contest. It includes throwing, choking, holding the opponent down, and bending or twisting his arms or legs. The two combatants may use whatever methods they like provided they do not hurt each other and obey the rules of Judo concerning etiquette, which are essential to its proper working."

[jukido987]

@Volgeblanc, Those are Dr. Kano's Words not mine. Obviously he wanted practitioners Judo to be able to handle themselves Standing and on the ground, infact when he tested his system against Mataemon Tanabe's school of Fusen Ryu Jujutsu, Kano's students lost every match on the ground prompting Kano to include "Ground Fighting" into his Judo. Also there's a lot of Systems besides the Gracies using Judo yet calling it another name-Examples (Hayastan Grappling System, Sambo, Gaidojutsu) etc.

[Volgeblanc]

In Dr. Kano's words: "There is one other form, which I named "attack and defense form." In this, I have combined different methods of attack and defense, in such a way that the result will conduce to the harmonious development of the whole body. Ordinary methods of attack and defense taught in Jiu-jitsu cannot be said to be ideal for the development of the body, therefore, I have especially combined them so that they fulfill the conditions necessary for the harmonious development of the body. "

[Volgeblanc]

Yes, many systems have branched out of the Kodokan's scope, but was the loss to Tanabe's School the only reason for Dr. Kano to reestablish more ground fighting in his Judo?

[jukido987]

@Volgeblanc . Well, i don't know what was in his thoughts because i wasn't there but from reading Articles and historical accounts, Kano became obsessed with Incorporating Ground fighting techniques into his Judo (or "Kano Ryu Jiu-Jitsu" as he called it then). due to losing "Every" match to Fusen Ryu.

[Volgeblanc]

They lost to Fusen Ryu after 8 years of being unbeatable. Tanabe was persuaded into sharing his techniques, in order to make the new syllabus of the Kodokan system, along with the other Kano's friends. He was more onto challenging all the jiu-jitsu ryus, and recognized the superior ne waza of the Fusen Ryu system

[jukido987]

When Maeda taught the Gracies Judo, He himself even called his method Jiu-Jitsu even though he was a Judoka. So If BJJ is a scam, then so is Judo, Which itself is a collection of Jujutsu Ryu. Today BJJ practitioners all over the world Acknowledge that they are doing "Judo" as Taught by Maeda and Many (including Royce Gracie) are ranked in Kodokan. There are also Judo schools claiming that they teach Jujutsu but in reality are just teaching Kodokan and calling it Jujutsu. Are they Scams as well?

[Volgeblanc]

When Carlos Gracie was taught by Maeda ,Carlos was already a boxer, but Maeda separated Judo from Jiu-Jitsu and they continued boxing, as well. Carlson Gracie's daughter recently published a book (in portuguese), explaining the Helio's loss to Valdemar Santana, and then Carlson beating Valdemar twice. Masaiko Kimura also battled against Santana once (it's in his book My Judo). Judo is another form of Jiu Jitsu. There's more than one source of Jiu Jitsu in Brasil.Vale Tudo is called many names.

[jukido987]

Vale Tudo can be any form of Self-Defense as it simply means "Anything Goes" or "Everything is allowed" -Boxing, Capoeira, Judo, etc-. In Kimura's book he also stated that Helio was a 6th Dan in Judo, and that Valdemar Santana was a 4th Dan when he fought them. He also offered Helio a teaching position in Japan which was an extremely high honor coming from Kimura who is hailed as the Greatest Judoka of all time. Judo is Jiu-Jitsu so The Gracies arent Lying when they say that they teach Jiu-Jitsu

[Volgeblanc]

Even the name is an euphemism and a soliloquy. Since not everything goes, like in ancient Greece. All the exagerations, lies, and inconsistencies are all signs of a scam. Judo is Kano's Jiu Jitsu. But has never been called Vale Tudo, or Luta Livre. Was Carlos Gracie better than Helio? Yes. He beated Helio twice. Is Gracie's Jiu Jitsu the Top of Martial Arts? No. But they are good fighters. Are they selling their craft? Yes, with the help of marketing. They're in debt with Japan .

[jukido987]

@Volgeblanc.. So are a lot of other Martial Arts (In debt with Japan) Too many to name here! To Helio, Carlos, Rorion, Rickson, Royce, Ralph, Royler, Ryan, Rener, Renzo, Cesar, and all the others who put in all on the line, My hats off to you for Re-Sparking the interest in "Judo" AKA Jiu-Jitsu. Thanks to all of them.

[Volgeblanc]

Yes, thanks to Kano, Tanabe,Maeda, Kimura and all the Masters from Feudal Japan, for creating and preserving their arts, now miscalled "Brazilian". Thanks to all the Japanese inmigrants who settled in Brazil. They never forgot their roots.

[jukido987]

Yep, "Most" of these men put it all on the line and didnt just sit at home and criticize from a couch like Roger Ebert & Gene Siskel. They got out there on the mat & in the ring and used the Martial Art that was taught them with courage. It's strange though how back then, These masters didn't care where a great technique came from, if it was useful, they took it and used it. They didn't bicker about the "My Art was first" Nonsense that's seen today. They just enjoyed the beauty of Martial Arts.

[Volgeblanc]

Eclectisism is a valid path. Back in the old times, Bushido codes didn't allow any type of bickering. Instead they're were polishing their skills. They live with a higher purpose than selling juicers, creating "universities", and dreaming of super-human powers.

[Volgeblanc]

@AmericanPatriot0076 I agree with you 100%. Gracies (Carlos and Helio didn't invent anything) are simple merchants, doing their scam in US. Now they sell juicers, LOL!

[J4184]

Royce tested positive for the Sakuraba fight. Not Hughes.

[cbproducktions]

Yeah I know, I made the mistake lol.

[OktaFierce]

As to the steroid comment its far more likely Royce used nandrolone to help him train and help his old joints as it is known for rather than match strength with Hughes.

[TENNSUMITSUMA]

HA HA interesting.....rewording what i said but not only that

'he took steroids to gain size because hughes is bigger and stronger than him' why would he need 2 do that if you dont need 2 be bigger and/or stronger for bjj 2 b effective.....

you never addressed my last point on the energy wasted doing it. why is this

lastly any one who knows shit about fighting knows there is no 'best' style abd bjj is no exception.

[cbproducktions]

I explained the steroids thing further if you watch it again.

I didn't explain the energy thing because that is in part 2 of your video, which I respond to later with another video.

When did I say there is a best style? The best style is knowing all the styles(striking, wrestling, and ground fighting). But between one martial art to another like kung fu, wrestling, bjj, boxing, karate, etc., there are better styles. The best SINGLE martial art is wrestling. Folliwed by bjj, sambo, and judo.

[cbproducktions]

Another example of the smaller guy beating the bigger is Genki Sudo (155) beating Butterbean (350). He heelhooked him.

[ProkofievRules]

The last point in your post, is the only one that I've heard from you, that is valid. This guy's arguements are fairly flawed. So I'll step in

The 8yr old vs 20yr old arguement. Studies have shown that you dont reach your full motor neuron development until age 15. Also, you cant even get a blue belt until age 16.

Strength: Helio once said that "the strong man uses the jiu jitsu that god blessed him with." He implied that you dont NECESSARILY need it. BJ Penn vs Matt Hughes as an example.

[cbproducktions]

Well of course strength plays a role in every fight and gives you the advantage. But the techniques in BJJ don't require much strength and are very effective, which is why the Gracie's say that the smaller weaker guy can beat the bigger stronger guy.

You also can't be a black belt until you're 19.

[PadLockum]

Because size and strength doesn't matter unless both are close in skill. Hughes USED Brazilian jiu-jitsu to beat Royce...therefore proving BJJ's effectiveness.