EEVblog #39 - Microchip PICkit 3 Programmer/Debugger Review

[blogsterification]

if it aint't broke....

[ve2zzz]

Another smart choice is the ICD2 for older parts. And there, i have to say that the clones are better built that the original part. The miniature type-B USB connector of the original part is inherently fragile while the full-size type-B of the clone is definitely stronger. It's sad to say that but it's a fact.

Another thing is that some clones are built with through-hole components which makes the programmer easier to repair in case of failure.

[abolo1]

Sold. I shan't be buying a pic kit 3.

[thegenrl]

mate you i believe you are right on with everything you said. especially how the decision was purely management.

what a shame... i just did a design using the new pic16f1503 and afraid i might have to go to the pickit3. gah!

[Snowman374th]

That's funny shit right there!

Debugger: This is what I call those debunkers. Debuggers, because they couldn't debunk a bugger coming out of their own nose.

[46I37]

PicKit3 still sucks in 2011. All our engineers still hate it and scrounge around for PikKit2 or an ICD3.

[Rk17]

love your blogs man! your funny! keep it up! ;> been thinking what to buy i think ill go with the pickit 2? good decision right? :)

[EEVblog]

@Rk17 No, the Pickit 2 is no longer supported, get the Pickit3

[Ham000n]

hey! do you know if it has really been improved since this review? cause I can't make the pickit to supply power to the microcontroller. Do you know if there's a way to do that? Thanks! Love your videos!

[glasstronic]

Well done. Thanks for posting!

[crotalistigris]

Great article, great service given Microchip's response (their video and phone call to you).

Now if I could just get my darned PicKit3 to work on my UUT! Under error conditions, it seems be too state sensitive. I even had to reboot the PC one time to get the PicKit3 into a working state.

BTW, once I was able to make the PicKit3 happy, I am able to use it just fine or the PicKit2 starter kit, so my problem on the UUT is probably the board or chip or something, not the PK3.

[4sineweaver2]

Suits. Can't live with 'em. Not really allowed to shoot 'em.

[marioalejandross]

It was true, pickit3 it was a very bad system to program a pic, but that was in 2009 now the support is better and the speed was improved

[rollo131]

"Retahhded product of the week award"

I never noticed before how much the Australian accent resembles the Boston accent

[nyehnyi]

oh great

[hsbharaj]

Just to continue the rant... This video was posted back in 2009. It's now 2011 and the PICkit3 is still an appalling product. Lot's of instability, compatibility issues etc . Forums are still saturated with complaints that the product simply doesn't work (fresh out of the packet!). WHY is Microchip not doing anything?

[aseglkj]

wow ... the idiots responsible for this should be fisted

[2011supra]

B4 i buy pickit3. Does pickit3 supported PIC32MX795F512L?

[kotapaka]

One thing I don't understand is: Most of their chips are rated at data retention for >40 years. Why would you then make newer chips incompatible with the older programmer? Looks to me their ripping people off.

[MrGregorN]

You are so right about PICKit3!

[miyukiTS]

this review was really informative about how tech companies actually work with typical MBA style management. Not that I know much about micro controllers, as an engineer in Japan I really understand why suddenly some larger companies put out crappy engineered products.

[sonugmail]

couple days before ,i call to microchip,there i said them about this difference you are telling and voila ,they knew you before i tell them, they said me dont think for him,if we the company is saying you to buy pk3

[sonugmail]

couple days before ,i call to microchip,there i said them about this difference you are telling and voila ,they knew you before i tell them, they said me dont think for him,we the company is saying you to buy pk3

[DanAlaMobile]

ROTFLMAOWPIMP !!!  FREAKIN LOVE IT!!!!!

[electronicsperson1]

OK so with all these crappy features would it be worth it to buy PICkit3 for the newer microcontrollers that they have made or just buy PICkit2 and use older microcontrollers

[EEVblog]

@electronicsperson1 Buy the PicKit3, it has improved since this review. The Pickit 2 is no longer supported.

[electronicsperson1]

@EEVblog OK thank you very much

[pumpkinman30]

@EEVblog which improvements have been made specifically?

[arsenal14forlife]

@EEVblog i am about to buy a programmer for my project, is the pickit 3 the best pic programmer out there for a great price?

[EEVblog]

@arsenal14forlife Yes, it's probably the best value out there, just buy it.

[ZiaUrRehmanFarooqi]

@EEVblog I like how Dave never stops talking. LOL. I am considering buying a PICKit 3 and I don't know how and where I'm gonna be able to use it... :< I mean I know I can program a PIC controller with it. But in our labs we have this giant ALL-100 programmer that programs almost any uC out there. And it has like a large ZIF socket on it where I put the uC and then upload the program into it. I don't see a ZIF socket there. Is there a detailed video about using it? Please consider answering it.

[zonedigitalandreiu21]

@EEVblog It seems like Dave was payed now by Microchip to promote now the PicKit3 ^_^ :))

[Desishikamaru]

@EEVblog

hey dave, The pic kit 2 used to give the device ID when connected to a pic chip....does the latest version(i know the old version of pickit 3 did not) of pic kit 3 give the id of the device connected to it...I am a lot into reverse engineering so the pickit 2 was a blessing...does the new version of pickit 3 have that feature?

[qwaqwa1960]

Just got mine - never had PICKit2. Still only allows 3V powering. Manual says 1.8V - maybe only if target-powered.

INACCURATE voltage out!!! Hilarious - manual makes a point of mentioning the VOLTAGE REFERENCE. Ooooooh. Yet the feedback network for measuring Vo appears to use 5% resistors! Ugh. I get 0.1V error at 3V. Could be worse I guess...

[PesimisTosbaa]

I know here is not right place to ask question but I want to ask what do you think about MPLAP X IDE?

Have you tried it?

[EEVblog]

@PesimisTosbaa I haven't tried it.

[PesimisTosbaa]

@EEVblog I am curious about your thoughts for MPLAB X IDE. Can you try new IDE for users to share your thoughts?

[qwaqwa1960]

ROTFL!

[gunnarMyTube]

Wonderful the knowledgeable lab guys now have a channel out to become presenter personalities. Youtube.

[omgitzdblackbetpwner]

hello so i have a question. what chips can this program? i have a third party programmer and i have been using it successfully for pic16/18s for a while now, and i want to upgrade to 16 bit controllers (PIC24HJ256GP210A specifically). my old programmer only supports 8bit chips, will this programmer work and if not what programmer can i use? thanks for your help

[EEVblog]

@omgitzdblackbetpwner The PICkit3 will program every PIC microcontroller, 8bit 16bit and 32bit.

[basslover201]

well i know nothing about pick kits but i like to watch ur vids anyways haha

[coffeecuppepsi]

i gave my pickit2 to a friend and went out and bought pickit3 for myself, BIG MISTAKE, i couldn't use the damn thing, for weeks i had to keep going back to me friend's house and use what was now his programmer. eventually i took it back to the store and thankfully they agreed to trade it for a pickkit2, now i'm happy again

[13jonny89]

I'm still trying to program a pic16f874a whit the kit 3. I'm gonna blow my head of.

[Films4You]

This sounds like Windows XP to Windows Vista Fail

[CurtisStephenson]

Dave, your a champion! Informative and a great laugh! Do you recommend the PICKit 3 now that they are addressing the issues? Also where in Australia did you get it for that price?

Cheers,

Curtis

[oznog99]

The part doesn't automatically supply voltage because it can't know what the right voltage IS. The old one let you plug in a 3.3v board and it might automatically supply 5v. But back then, 3.3v board were few and far between. Now, boards which can't survive 5v are really common. So, it will not auto-power the device anymore, for good reason.

In any case, it's an MPLAB feature, rather than the hardware.

[oznog99]

The part doesn't automatically supply voltage because it can't know what the right voltage IS. The old one let you plug in a 3.3v board and it might automatically supply 5v. But back then, 3.3v board were few and far between. Now, boards which can't survive 5v are really common. So, it will not auto-power the device anymore, for good reason.

[ysayad1977]

what we also should have to transfer *.HEX files to chips with PICkit 2 or 3 because microchip propose many other products with this programmers

[TheBarathbushan]

someday i wish to be like you dave !!

[coffeecuppepsi]

@TheBarathbushan

you can be, just drink tons of coffee mate

[yeeeeeehaw]

Are there any updates to this review?

I need to pick up a Pickit soon...is 2 still better than 3?

[EEVblog]

@yeeeeeehaw Just get the Pickit 3, it is now a perfectly fine programmer.

[quasar2341]

@EEVblog This post has confused me.. Have there been any upgrades to the PICkit3, or are you just not as pissed off at it any more?

You mention that you have no inside knowledge of why they designed the product, but you say it was a simple bit of kit for people to enjoy. Can I suggest (I also have no inside knowledge) that perhaps they designed this product as a cheap & easy way for consumers to get used to & familiar with PIC micros? Maybe this is WHY PICs are so much more popular & available?

[EEVblog]

@quasar2341 Yes, it has been updated many times since this review. It was even OK at the time, but in direct comparison with the Pickit2 it sucked.

[squarepusher303]

Being a electrical engineering student and just starting to build my own lab consider me a fan dude, you rule.

[rollo131]

Watching this makes me wish I had the slightest idea what a PICkit is or what it does.

[EEVblog]

@rollo131 I'm impressed you watched it without knowing!

[wickedpenguinbox]

Awesome, Nice one. Whats the diffierence between the PICkit1 and Pickit 2?

[Schmiki24]

I watched this video like 5 times now only because I love the way he talks! :D

[Schmiki24]

Wow thank you for warning me, I will have to get a PICKit 2. :-)

[000Ru000]

Top rant, love it :)

[MyPintado]

I love this. Dave thanks for your voice. I've had to contend with the same type of management at Luck Sneed. :)

[wayne205stevens]

Ha ha I have to laugh at some of these comments!

your a nerd, you aint gonna pull a bird with a pickit 2/3 etc... why are these people looking for these vids then? If it was'nt for electronics engineers you would have to go buy your gay porn from the shops!

I like Dave and his rants because he puts it as it really is!! Nice one Dave :~)

[raulzeva]

que idiota



[ms767210]

I had heard about the led problem with it but thanks for pointing out the flaws. Your reasoning about why the changes is fair but lets not forget that not all engineers are perfect. Maybe creative engineer had something to do with it's design hence the insults chucked at you.

[raulzeva]

you are an idiot

[wayne205stevens]

@raulzeva we are all idiots my friend!

[creativeengineer]

I bought a PicKit 3. It is very good... I agree with the annoyance on always setting to power source though. Oh, an regarding Atmel vs Microcip... pros and cons for both; I love Atmel, except they quote a ridiculous 20-24 week leadtime through its Aussie distributor!!!! I am now developing a commercial product using Microchip uC primarily because of availablity above all else. Off-the-shelf and cheap. The Pickit 3 does the job OK. Atmel has a lot to learn about supporting the smaller customers.

[jie900]

exactly. and it's only one example of companies "improving" their products, like some video website which "improves" their interface

[Madlion]

this is the best review ever LOL, i dunno anything about PIC, gonna start. but i do agree dickhead project managers always screw things up

[Gameboygenius]

7:05 What a good moment for those crickets to stop chirping...

[pedomohd]

the best product review I ever watched. Nicely done I love this review

[sergio1020881]

your a great critic, tell them dickheads the truth.

[portblock]

I have all my clients purchase the pickit2 so they can update via the stand alone programer when I email them an updated hex file. A client can call me, ask for a tweak, and I can email the hex file, the stand alone programmer is simple for them, and for the production line as well. why remove it?

[4sineweaver2]

Dave, you've just described almost every product I've bought in the last 10 years. I'm so sick of having to "fix" everything I buy. And also, it just kills me how often I see products ruined by using substandard parts that saved pennies on the cost of the product.

I'm to the point of thinking that suits need to be held accountable for ruining the reputation of the company and employees they embarrass.

[hugos31]

dave, also check the Fluke ScopeMeter 123 that has a defect in the LCD screen sooner or later always have horizontal lines, and the cost of repair is expensive and nobody says anything

[creativeengineer]

This nerd is a serial whinger. I wonder if this dag realises PicKits don't attract chicks? PicKit 2 or PicKit3 - it doesn't matter - he has no hope of being Kylie Minogue's next beau.

[EEVblog]

LOL!

My wife DOES look like Kylie Minogue!

[DonLoco7]

really? like Kylie Minogue? will you barter her for some pickit 2?

[Nanovirus5995]

@creativeengineer Nor do rude comments. And its not like (this is if he wasn't married) he's going to go up to an attractive women and go "Hey look at my PicKit 3. Its better than my PicKit 2. And its red!"

[farhan260590]

@creativeengineer dude he is just doing a product review..i dont see the point why this video is about attracting chicks...

[khalsouna]

thanks for the review, this guy is funny too

[PodeCoet]

How the hell have I not heard of you!? Subscribed!

[TelevisionMagazine]

Bunch of idiots! Must drive you guys nuts.

How to balls up a design or what!

[tgmaxx56]

My PICkit3 is great -- very easy to use, reliable and even fun. I am glad I got it.

[CoyoteLight]

Agree - wish I had not wasted my money on the junk.

[ve2zzz]

Yep !!!! Il will stick to my old PICkit 2 !!!!

[psicodelio]

whit the pickit 3 you need an adittional power source in order to program the controllers?

[EEVblog]

No, the PICKIT3 can generate a supply voltage.

[ElectricG]

whoaaaa.. relax man

[pittuck]

In my experience the pickit3 is a lot faster at programming the bigger devices, but a bit slower at doing the intital handshaking with the pic before going.

Also the debug is hugely fast (x3 or 4) which if your working on math type problems is a huge, huge bonus.

Finally, the downloading new firmware for different families is not too bad. You have to download when changing between 18F and dspic33 etc... Not for every chip

[netwala]

:) I didnt expect electronics guys to know so well about the software industry.

Thats exactly how products are blown up in the software industry. I know because I work in it. Management brings in new managers, pays them more and cuts them loose to poop on the product in the name of modularization etc.

pre-existing people are expected to keep quite because whatever they say is "just being personaly attached to the old way of things".

[Darrengb]

Mate you are very funny but true

[Membrane556]

I was amazed you have to DL new firmware into the device if you change chips that's just asinine.

Also do not like the idea of being forced to use MPLAB.

[orreznorre]

Great Review

I will keep my PICkit 2

[mlevinlevington]

Welldone with the MPLab response, Good work. Shows you how much influence Youtube has.

[VeXorian1337]

The 24F is much faster, has more memory... and if you're really smart and a REAL electronic engineer, you can program your own custom firmware and make an entire ICD3

[Anothercoilgun]

Thats it. I am keeping PICkit2 and my current version of MPLAB. First the PICKit app only worked for the device and not in MPLAB. Now only MPLAB will work the PICkit3 with no external app!

You heard of code freezes. I am going to do a Device freeze.

[Anothercoilgun]

This is a programming device video and yet people still managed to bring up C. So disgusting. Otherwise good video.

[dissimilate]

Honestly Dave, don't hold back, what do you *really* think? (^_^) Great blog. Keep up the great work.

[AltF4]

Loved the review. lol.

I was going to get one of those things. Thanks for saving me.

[kchida1980]

Sayin' it like it is! You can't sprinkle powdered sugar on shit and call it a doughnut. Love it!

Engineers/scientists need more credit and respect in the modern world. Just go to your local mall and ask a random person if they know who Richard Stallman is? Even the ultra-charismatic Prof. Feynman is a nobody to the average Joe. Bah humbug...

[shiroidebukujira]

The ICD2 does that firmware download thing too.

[Afrotechmods]

Microchip needs to learn that MPLAB is the biggest thing holding them back.

[indoctrin8ed]

Great review. No punches pulled, as it should be. I'm in software (big company) and the business vs. marketing vs. engineering thing is spot on.

[D4V1DR0B3R7S0N]

Use Atmel AVRs instead.

[EEVblog]

I have. I could rant about problems them too. Just a different flavor of annoying.

[shiroidebukujira]

The AVR's have much better free tools though. Like there is a good GCC port, there is a good C library, there is avrdude and cheap hardware to prog chips. PIC chips can be almost impossible to use if you don't happen to use windows and compilers etc that are up to a decent standard are expensive.

Why all micros don't just have a simple serial bootloader progging method is beyond me. Recent PICs can rewrite their own flash, so why not just include the loader on ROM?

/me <3 Renesas parts.

[MrRepulsiv]

Hrrm, microchip provide software for linux and Macosx, so I dont really see the problem ? what platform do you want to use it on ? solaris ? BSD ?

I wonder WHY it sould have an inbuilt programmer ? it would sure take space on the chip from more useful stuff, the pickit2 is extremly easy to use, cheap to buy, and works perfectly.

Anyway, I wasn't going to upgrade my pickit2 to a pickit3, but I'm even more sure about it after this video :)

[shiroidebukujira]

You can run MPLAB in wine maybe. That's not really a solution for doing development. The only thing that comes close to a free portable toolchain for the PIC is SDCC. Closed source toolchains are a nightmare, full stop.

Um, most new PICs are capable of writing their own flash. So they have an "inbuilt programmer". Having a small boot rom that allows code to be loaded by a standard serial interface speeds up development.. I do believe the USB PICs can be flashed via USB with some software.

[shiroidebukujira]

"Microchip Technology Inc. does not provide support for this Linux and Mac OS software, which is provided as is. See included Readme files for more information."

Nice. So you can prog chips with unsupported software (There is some free software that works with the Pickit2 and ICD2 IIRC, it was very flaky with my ICD2 though).... but where's the toolchain?

[Eviltwin3940]

You are definitely able to get your opinion out eh, Dave? :p

This almost got me choking to death while I was eating. So effing hillarious.

You sir, get the "most deadly product review of the week"-award. ;)

[onlywhenprovoked]

lol. great review.

those guys should pay you for advice on the pickit 4. lol

[Rebelgium]

Retarded product of the week awards, I love it!