If Jesus is not GOD how come he goes about arresting so-called muslim scholars and leaders all over the world and turning them to the only right way! And funny the usual reactions of the muslim world that such converts to christianity are always suffering from one mental syndrome or the other! If I were allah I would rather have healed them of their ‘mental syndromes’ than have them desert me. Watch another one here: Confession of A Former Islamic, Muslim Leader, Imam Scholar and Jihadist
@muhammadnazim121 sami cant even sum up a thousand people if his life depended on it. Btw, we have debated this two years ago and he couldnt make a case against me or for his own position. So nice try, bud.
Youtube wont let me post any links on the comments section so just go to see the translation of malachi 3:6 and you will see that it sees "I your lord DO not change" It doesnt say "I have not changed."
@wesamalshaif Well sorry to break it to you but those translations dont reflect the Hebrew text accurately. The Hebrew word "shaniti" is in the PAST TENSE. And even if you would read it like that as if God doesnt change, that still wold reflect the forgiving nature of God, which befits the context, since God talks about the fact that the Jewish people could return to him and he would forgive them: He doesnt change, he is still the forgiving God that brought them out of Egypt. (v. 7)
@Nakdimon316 hard to believe that the scholars who formulated those translations arent as learned in hebrew as you are. And context doesnt really matter in this one, its a general statement that is made.It's like me saying "I dont like cheese"anything that is said before or after doesnt change the fact that I dont like cheese. And it is logical to believe it in that way. God doesnt and should never change.The Quran says you will not find a change in Allaah's Sunnah (the way He does things)
@wesamalshaif It seems that you have a hard time dealing with facts. Fact is that the translation is wrong and the hebrew is in past tense. Fact is that God is talking about his character and not about him taking on other forms. So either way your objection is moot and Sami was NOT right, period. In fact, here is the Judaica Press Complete Tanach translation: "6. For I, the Lord, have not changed; and you, the sons of Jacob, have not reached the end".
@Nakdimon316 I love how you christians always put phrases like "period!" or "Fact is" ...you define fact by your opinion...What you interpret the god of the old testament to be saying is not fact. And putting the verse in past tense would be better suited for christian aims to prove jesus's divinity...so why would all the translator not want that extra edge, especially if it is more sincere to the hebrew text? Even James white uses the King James version I believe
@wesamalshaif Well you are definitely not a man of facts, bc James White doesnt use the KJV he uses the NASB. But the facts are the facts. The hebrew original is in PAST TENSE in Malachi 3:6, period, and no amount of translations will change that. that is a simple fact indeed. And I dont see how not putting it in past tense would at all help or detract from the divinity of the Messiah. It still is dealing with God's unchanging character and nothing else. The context is clear on that.
@Nakdimon316 Malachi 3:6 (New American Standard Bible) 6"For I, the LORD, (A)do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. Same translation my friend...are you more knowledgable than Mr. White? maybe you should suggest your version to him...And you just contradicted yourself "God's unchanging character"...His character, according to the old testament is One character...No trinity mentioned in any verse of the Torah...that's why the Jews dont believe it
@wesamalshaif I never claimed to know more than White, but if you would approach him and ask him about the tense of the verse he would acknowledge it is past tense. Just because White uses a particular translation doesnt mean he endorses every word in that translation to be accurately translated. Furthermore, you can appeal to scholars and translations all u want but that will change nothing about the FACT that the original Hebrew text says "I have not changed".
@Nakdimon316 And even if the verse is in past tense, let's say I agree with you...It still doesnt change the fact that it is an illogical and heretic view of the Creator...He does not change because His plans are infallible, and His essence is constant...that is why we only swear by Him...because he is the only unchangeable...and attributing anything of humanity to Him, even a second nature, is apostacy in Islam..and that is why we call it Pure Monothiesm, because it rebukes such notions.
@wesamalshaif yeah you swear by Allah, but Allah swears by figs ants bananas etc, so in Islamic theology swearing by Allah has no bearing on anything. Well... I guess Allah swears by treestumps because those are "unchanging in their nature" too! And please spare me the nonsense of your "pure monotheism" since u can't be saved without acknowledging Muhammad besides Allah. ur creed is not "there is no god but Allah", you have to add "...and Muhammad..." to make it to paradise. no partners u say?
@Nakdimon316 Really? what horrible double standards you apply? We humans can only swear by Allaah, but Allaah has no such restrictions...again demonstrating separation of man from Creator...so I guess christians can be saved just by believing in the father right? If I am baptised in the name of the holy spirit alone is that sufficient? ridiculous..We have to acknowledge all prophets, not just Muhammad saaws...and you know that we do not associate our prophet saaws with Allaah...worship is only
@wesamalshaif No that is no double standards. You are completely clueless. If the Spirit was a creature u would be right, if the Son would me a creature you would have a point. BUT THEY ARE NOT! So there are no asociations with God, since they ARE GOD! Muhammad is NOT, NOR are treestumps and figs! YHWH in the Bible swears BY HIMSELF, since there is nothing higher than himself to swear by. He NEVER swears by his creation, Allah does, which demonstrates that Allahs vows are worthless. try again!
@Nakdimon316 again you just demonstrated the debate tactics of christian apologetics.call someone a name, and say he knows nothing,DEBATE WON.no.Of course Muhammad saaws is not God!!! AstaghfirAllaah...far be it for me to give the Creator a human identity...cant say the same for you though can I? Allaah also swears by Himself.His dominion is everything so He can swear by the things He put into existence.and nice decorum not even capitalizing he and himself, but you think he's a man anyway right?
@wesamalshaif Exactly! So why do you NEED Muhammad to get to paradise? Why is "there is no god but Allah" enough? This makes Muhammad a PARTNER of Allah in salvation of mankind. If you still cant see how you commit shirk then you are blind! Let me hit this home by asking you a simple question: Can someone be a true Muslim by saying "There is no god but Allah and Moses is his Messenger?" if not, then you have demonstrated that Muhammad is a partner with Allah, and thus you commit SHIRK!
@Nakdimon316 Your really not getting this...again, Allaah asks us to believe in all His messengers...if we defer even one prophet, then we are not muslims...can you be a Christian by not believing in Jobe (Ayuub peace be upon him) or John the Babtist (Yahya peace be upon him)...Since they are mentioned in the bible, not believing in them would be disbelief in God right? does that make sense to you?
@wesamalshaif Thanks for not answering the question, by dodging the question you admit that you commit shirk. I'm not talking about "believing in" a prophet. I'm talking about ascociating a prophet with your salvation. You cannot enter paradise without Muhammad in Islam, but in christianity ONLY JESUS is necessary. u cannot get to paradise by only believing that Allah is the only god, you NEED to confess Muhammad as well, which makes him a partner with Allah in salvation of mankind, i.e. SHIRK!
@Nakdimon316 And again, double standards...I answered your question plenty of times...I told you belief in someone and worshipping someone are two different things...Your just so used to the idea that you can do both at the same time that you cant differentiate between them...We associate all prophets, all revealed scriptures with our salvation...Islam is a destimony and a criterion for previous nations, so Muhammad is included in the shahaadah so that we dont stray...
@wesamalshaif you havent addressed anything. can you be a Muslim and thus enter Paradise by ONLY mentioning Allah as your God, without mentioning Muhammad as well? You havent answered the question. this is the fourth time I'm asking you.
@Nakdimon316 Muhamaad peace be upon him is mentioned directly in the Shahaadah because he was the last messenger to mankind, so we are asked to acknowledge him because the people of the book already acknowledged all the other prophets and all thats left for them to do is accept Muhammad peace be upon him seal in the line of Prophets and messengers...very simple concept...Neither Sam Shamoun, David Wood or anyone else ever brings this up in debates, because it is silly and easily refutable.
@wesamalshaif no its not that easily refutable. Sam has written numerous articles about the SHIRK in Islam in its deificaton of Muhammad, despite the fact that Islam claims "pure monotheism". David Wood also has blog articles saying the same thing. Dont lie about my brothers bc you wont get away with it. If what you say is true about "the last messenger", then Muhammad is still a false prophet, since muslims dont believe that Paul was a messenger of Jesus. Therefore ur argument doesnt work.
@Nakdimon316 Deification of muhammadSAAWS??? this is where your getting really desperate my friend...no muslims on earth does such a thing....and the Quran is full of ayaat separating Allaah and Muhammad SAAWS...Paul was a messenger of Jesus? that would be really nice considering Paul destroyed his teachings...such a nice apostal right? I said they never bring it up in debates!!! thats the difference between muslim debators and christian debators
@wesamalshaif Yes Deification of Muhammad. No one can point a finger at Muhammad without muslims loosing it. But when someone talks bad about Allah, muslims dont seem to care. Also, when people talk bad about Allah, Muslims seem unmoved, but if someone blasts Muhammad you go out of your way to threaten that person ot try to kill him. You call talking bad about Muhammad blasphemy, yet talking bad about Jesus, Moses or one of the other prophets is not. you DEIFY Muhammad!
@Nakdimon316 If I point a finger at your mother and call her a pedophile, you would lose it wouldnt you? therefor by your logic you are deifying your mother...horrible logic you are using my friend...again...deification is only if you pray to someone or consider them divine...we dont consider him divine...but then again, you probably already get it...your just wasting time now...And i've made it clear that derision of any prophet, angel is APOSTACY in islam..
@wesamalshaif And yes Paul was a messenger of Yeshua, whether you like it of not. And if you claim Paul destroyed the teachings of the Messiah, then its up to you to demonstrate that. Dont make hollow claims. And you dont know the motives of them not bringing certain points up in debates. you make no sense by claiming that they dont bring things up in debates while they write articles about these things, since their articles are also addressed by muslim apologists and they defend those views.
@Nakdimon316 Jesus said "Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the pharisees you shall by no means enter the kingdom of heaven" Paul said "By no means will you enter eternal life by deeds...it is by faith alone"...Jesus says "I desire repentance not sacrifice" Paul says that Jesus sacrificed his life for the sins of mankind..I can go on and on....THere are entire websites dedicated to this phenomona of Paul rewriting Jesus' doctrine.
@Nakdimon316 you know very well that debates and articles are two completely different things...in a debate, if you say something stupid, you will get stares and laughter from the crowd and your entire respectibility could drop instantly...in an article, however, there are no eyes watching YOU...they may be watching the paper, but not you...
@Nakdimon316 Anything we say on our "blogs" or articles, we can bring up in debate...If they were to say that we deify Muhammad SAAWS, meaning we call him God, or give him Divine attributes, they would lose the debate right there on the spot...and any self respecting christian knows that....like I said it shows desperation on your part...
@Nakdimon316 to Allaah..and you know this, so it is pretty childish to say such a thing. Tawheed is of three types: Uloohiya, Rububiya, and asma wa sifaat...meaning Tawheed of worship to Allaah, Tawheed of Lordship of Allaah, and Tawheed of His names and attributes...you know very little about muslim creed and work under the guise of someone who is learned in it.
@wesamalshaif I know about the divisions of Tawheed, which are IBADA, Ribubiya and Asma was Sifaat. Its funny that u mention this btw, b/c according to the Islamic standards of these categories, u have just conceded that Jesus claims to be God in the Bible, since he calls himself by some of the names of Allah: Al-Hay, Al-Haqq, Al-Ba'ith, As-Shahid, Al-Muhyi, Al-Awwal, Al-Akhir, An-Nur, Al-Badi. His followers called him other names too. THANKS! U just refuted Sami's position without knowing it.
@Nakdimon316 Actually, again, you prove you know nothing about islamic creed, or at least very little, no offense...because to Allaah belongs Lordship, WORSHIP, and divine names and attributes...Jesus never once claimed either lordship or worship, and thats if I agree that those are the actual words of Jesus, since he didnt write a single letter in the gospels...Yeah, his followers called him man too.."they marveled at God, for such power he had bestowed onto MEN" Matthew
@wesamalshaif Jesus claimed Lordship (Jn 13:13-14), he claimed worship (Jn 5:23), he claimed to be Yahweh (Mt 21:14-16), and he claimed the names of Allah. Tell me, cn any good Muslim call hiimself "Al-Haqq" or "Al-Hayy"? Can any Muslim call himself "Al-Awwal wal-Akhir"? And if not why not? and if so, why so? We have no problem with people calling him a man, because thats what we believe, he was both God and man! YOU however, have to deal with the verses that speak of his Deity, which u cant!
@Nakdimon316 You know, we have in Islam this sect called shia...shia claim that there are 12 infallible leaders who rule the muslim world...they are a small minority in islam but nevertheless...when we ask them to direct us as to where exactly in the Quran these imams are mentioned, they give verses that are opened to interpretation by anyone in any matter...no concrete guidance...now, I believe in a God that guides His creation in the best possible matter...If God's final message is in fact the
@Nakdimon316 Gospels, why isnt Jesus divinty explicit? why are there Unitarians still around? There is no sect in any part of Islam that says Allaah is not God, no matter how misguided they are...you know why? because Allaah Almighty beats it into our brains a thousand times leaving no room for error...Now you expect me to take a few obscure verses and leave all the verses of Jesus being nothing but a man??? How about "I was not sent but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel"
@wesamalshaif that is because they fail to answer the questions that I pose to u. Can a messenger call himself by the names of Allah? This is what Jesus did! Can a messenger take a verse from the Quran that is about Allah and apply it to himself? That is what Jesus did by quoting OT verses that are about Yahweh and applying those 2 himself. And this is also what his followers did in reference 2 him, even calliing him their God and Savior (Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1) What do you mean "not explicit".
@Nakdimon316 or "The father is greater than I" or "I of my own self can do nothing" or "Blasphemy against the son is forgiven and blasphemy against the Holy spirit will not be forgiven" if they are all equals in divinity why is blasphemy against one greater than the other "If i bear witness of myself my witness is not true" God needs another witness? and not to mention that the multitudes that followed Jesus around for three days, watching him perform miracles never said he was God..
@wesamalshaif Its amazing how you people want to refute our theology with verses from our scriptures that actually support our theology. These verses fit perfectly with our theology, because our theology comes from the scriptures that testify about these things. None of these verses refute our trinitarian position and have been thoroughly addressed and refuted. We have no problem with verses that address the humanity of Jesus, YOU, however, have to explan the verses that are abou this Divinity!
@Nakdimon316 How does Jesus saying "The father is greater than I support your theology"??? If they are all con-equals than it actulally debunks your theology...and the verse about the sins against son of man and holy ghost does the same thing...if they are equals than blasphemy against them should carry the same weight..
@wesamalshaif It supports my theology because we believe that the Son gave up his divine perogatives when he came down as a man and he lowered himself as explained in Philippians 2:5-8, therefore the Father is greater than the Son. like your father is greater than you in rank, but that doesnt make your father MORE human than you, or makes you LESS human than your father. Likewise, because the Father was greater than the Son in rank doesnt make the Son less Deity than the Father.
@Nakdimon316 Thank you so much my friend.you've just said what the priests and bishops would never dare to sayTHE FATHER IS GREATER THAN THE SON IN RANK.therefore, why would you worship Jesus when there is one greater than him in rank.its like having two kings of one country, but one king has more authority.both are kings.but one is more deserving of obedience than the other...get it? and how can you give up your divine prerogatives and THEN TAKE THEM BACK...it was a meaningless sacrifice then..
@Nakdimon316 Here you are milleniums after Jesus performs the miracles and you say he's God, but the people WHO WERE THERE never called him that...dont you think that this is strange? No prophecy of Jesus by name is mentioned in the Old Testament, and it says he will be called Emanuel...wth? he was never called that at all was he? please open your heart my friend..
@wesamalshaif Answer the questions I have posed to you. Those are the arguments I base my theology on that Jesus is Divine. If you cannot address them, then leave me alone, since you then demonstrate that you cannot deal with them and thus concede the point that Jesus is God.
@Nakdimon316 I told you already, stop repeating yourself...I cannot answer those arguments, just as you cannot answer mine...This just proves that the bible is split as to who exactly Jesus was and that the allegations that the gospels that are included in the bible are to assuage fighting sects that thought of him as prophet and God are true. I can interpret all of the verses you quote to mean different things, but its a waste of time because you have different interpretations.
@wesamalshaif Oh I'm answering all your objections, but you arent answering anything. thts the problem. If we have documents from the first century from the community that was headed by the apostles of Yeshua who call him "Lord", ther "God", who attribute to him Divine qualities, such as Creator, then HOW ON EARTH, can you claim that he was none of these things and that the first believers didnt believe these things either? You simply take what you can use and disregard what destroys your case.
@Nakdimon316 My friend, there is not a single statement in the bible where anyone calls Jesus "God"...And even in the Quran people are called lords...it doesnt mean lord in the theistic sense...it means master...and you probably know this...it is a common term used in those days for kings and people who are respected..ex "are you frightened my lord?"...get it....You have documents from the first century? does that include the bible? no it doesnt...there have been many revisions to it anyway so
@wesamalshaif As for your claims about "lord", yes they mean it in theistic sense. Yeshua is not just a lord, but THE Lord. Expressions like "the grace of the Lord Jesus" are not just like earthly lords. Nor is any earthly lord called the "overseer of our souls". Only ONE is overseer of our souls and that is God. Could anyone say this of Muhammad or of any human prophet? Who besides God is the shepherd and overseer of souls?
@Nakdimon316 No one else...you have a point...During Jesus' ministry...as in, when he was walking the earth...can you give me one verse when someone addresses him, in his presence, with that usage of Lord? No, you cant...that's what I meant
@wesamalshaif LOL! Yeshua HIMSELF claims he is YHWH, the God of Israel. I have already pointed u to Matthew 21:14-16 where he applies a verse that is about YHWH from the OT to himself. That is even stronger evidence than him saying "I am God". Furthermore, he calls himself the Recurrector, the Life, the Truth, claimed to share in the glory of the Father before the world was made, Peter calls him the Lord who knows all things (John 21), Thomas calls him "My Lord and My God" (John 20) Had enough?
@Nakdimon316 it doesnt matter really...There have been several statements in bible were take out...and they werent just statements where someone said "hi"....they had theological implications, as my brother AbdAllaah put it...so you can never really trust it much...
@Nakdimon316 The qoutes I gave you from the new testament are GENERAL STATEMENTS that cannot mean except that which is apparent of their meanings. And I dont use the Bible as a proof for Jesus' prophethood...I merely use it to show christians how unclear it is...The creed of a people is supposed to be mentioned explicitly in there sacred book...Throughout the entire bible the words trinity, and bible are never mentioned...and Jesus never says "I am God" leaving it to your scholars to interpret
@wesamalshaif No they are statements within a specific context that u seem to have no regard for. Which is the typical muslim method. Those texts I use are NOT unclear, they are as clear as day.let me repeat myself: Yeshua takes verses from the OT that are ABOUT YAHWEH, the God of Israel, AND APPLIES THOSE TO HIMSELF! How is that not as forceful as saying "I am God"? His followers did the same thing. Would u be able to take a verse from the Quran about Allah and apply it to Muhammad? YES OR NO?
@Nakdimon316 Are you reading what i'm writing??? I told you I cant answer that...if thats what he does in the bible then, fine, i'm all for it....now do you recall instances in the bible where Jesus totally eliminates any thought of him being God...among the ones I listed, which you addressed only one, and it still did not prove anything....there are more...for instance...Jesus told someone not to call him GOOD...why would he want them to call him GOD...does that make sense to you...would God be
@wesamalshaif ok since you keep claiming that The Bible never calls Yeshua God, let me repeat the question one more time, if you dont answer, then this convo is over: If Yeshua applies verses from the OT that are about YHWH to himself, what is he saying about himself? If the apostles apply verses from the OT that are about YHWH to Yeshua, what are they saying about Yeshua? For example: are you allowed to apply Surah 1:2 and 4 to Muhammad? If not, WHY NOT?
@Nakdimon316 I never said the bible doesnt call Jesus God...pay attention my friend...I said no one in the bible calls him God...they refer to him as son of man and son of David...and even son of God doesnt mean what you think it means...if you want to end the convo that is fine...because i concended to the fact that he might have appllied divine names to himself, but you insist on not addressing any of the verses i pointed out in which Jesus utterly separates himself from God.
@wesamalshaif You said " there is not a single statement in the bible where anyone calls Jesus "God"". This means that no one, not Yeshua himself, nor his disciples, nor the authors who were companions of the disciples, call him God. I posed you the questions based on these words. So now answer the questions. Yeshua applies OT verses about YHWH to himself. Deal with it. Yeshua doesnt seperate himself from God, he seperates himself from the FATHER, since the Father is not the Son and vice versa.
@Nakdimon316 The Father is not the Son? and vice versa? so they are not one in the same? they are two entities? POLYTHIESM.get your creed straight my friend.either they are one in the same, or they are not.either they are of equal rank or they are not.either they do the same things, and have the same knowledge or they are not." of that hour knoweth no man, not the angels, NOR the SON" oh but I guess he gave up that prerogrative too.because in your opinion, God can turn his God-ness on and Off
@wesamalshaif thank you for conceding that whoever Yeshua was claiming to be one with, it was not Allah, since Yeshua called his God "Father" which automatically makes him the "Son" of his God, which is what Allah denies! Thank you! Whoever he was worshipping, praying to, called his God, it wasnt Allah, hence he wasnt a Muslim. Go ahead and end the convo. Thanks for conceding to my theology and admitting that the Bible DOES teach Yeshua is both God and Man. Finally a muslim who is honest.
@Nakdimon316 Do you get it now? Again...I'll say it slower...THERE ARE VERSUS IN THE BIBLE THAT MAKE IT SEEM AS IF JESUS IS GOD...BUT THEN AGAIN, I HAVE GIVEN YOU ALMOST TEN REFERENCES IN WHICH HE CLAIMS THAT HE IS NOT GOD, AND HE IS JUST A SERVENT OF GOD DOING HIS FATHERS WILL, AND EVEN ASKED THE FATHER TO "REMOVE THE CUP" (THE CRUCIFIXION) FROM HIM, AND WHEN HE WAS CRUCIFIED HE SAID "GOD O GOD WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME" the bible is one big contradiction...end of story
@wesamalshaif SO again you are not answering. When people attribute verses about Allah in the Quran to Muhammad it doesnt SEEM that they claim he is Allah, they ARE CLAIMING he is Allah, period! Likewise, when the Bible attribute verses about YHWH to Yeshua, it doesnt SEEM they say he is YHWH, they SAY HE IS YHWH, period! So deal with the argument: Is it SHIRK when you apply a verse that is about Allah in the Quran to Muhammad? If not, why not? if so why so?
@Nakdimon316 I think I should end this convo lol...because i've answered you at least five times now...I told you I conceded to that already....but you havent addressed one of the almost ten verses I quoted for you about Jesus' mortality, so it seems like your just playing games and dodging my questions
@wesamalshaif I dont have to answer your question since you already have conceded to my theology, which is that the BIBLE, NOT Constantine or anyone at Nicea, teaches that Yeshua is BOTH God and man. Thank you.
@Nakdimon316 Your welcome...dude...ma Sha Allaah...but you are pretty closed...I conceded out of sincerity to one point, not your entire theology...but you fail to reciprocate...my purpose is complete then...have a great time man worshipping and calling it something else....fight your inner bias and accept islam in sha Allaah..that would be best for you...peace.
@wesamalshaif Sorry, you have conceded that the Bible teaches that Yeshua is both God and Man, that is conceding to my theology. But this is what happens when one honestly looks at the text. One is forced to accept that conclusion. So from now on, I hope you follow your sincere ways and stop supporting people like Sami Zaatari, Zakir Naik, Osama Abdallah etc, and stop endorsing Ahmed Deedat when they seek to distort the Biblical testimony of the Deity of Yeshua. Thanks!
@Nakdimon316 ok with people calling him Son of DAVID??? or Son of Man? which he uses to refer to himself, every single time??? is God that low, in your opinion...that he has to make a mockery of His divinity and lower himself to being abused...He loves us, and that is why he forgives us when we repent...His justice is not so that he will send his son (which is actually him somehow) and have him killed for a sin he did not commit
@Nakdimon316 And if that is truly your creed then you have disbelieved in the God of the bible...because it says "Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill..
@wesamalshaif Which shows your lack of understanding. We dont believe God is a man, we believe God became a man for a specific purpose. second, that verse doesnt say God cant ever take upon himself the form of a man. It, again, speaks about God's character: God is not a man THAT HE SHOULD LIE... God, unlike man, doesnt lie, if he says something he will do it. when he promises if he will fulfill it. that is what the text is about.
@Nakdimon316 God became a man for a specific purpose? meaning he COULDNT ACCOMPLISH THAT PURPOSE BEING GOD???? so he had to become a man???? that is why unitarians get sick upon hearing that...you lower God to HAVING to do something...God is never at a corner where he has to change his form, and even worse, Kill himself...how can God die...dont you see the problem? and if you say that God's Human form died, again that is not in accordance with your creed which says that God died for his creation
@wesamalshaif If God chooses to become man for a specific purpose, then who are you to tell God he cant? Your prophet is recorded to have said that Allah comes down to see who is praying to him and who asks his forgiveness. Does that mean that Allah cant hear or see who'se praying to him without coming down? No Muslim will claim that! Because God does things one way doesnt constitute that there is no other way for him to do it. Stop making fallacious arguments.
@Nakdimon316 He does not say that Allaah comes down to see who is praying...that is a lie...I memorized most of that hadeeth so you know that that is not what it says at all...He says that Allaah comes down to the nearest heaven when a thrid of the night is through and says "Who is calling me that I may grant him what he asks?" its an exclamatory statement...your the one that is making wierd arguments...no sincere christian would accuse a muslim of shirk based on the shahadah lol
go to bible gateway and look at the verse This guy lied and the verse says exactly what sami said....you guys just try to make yourself feel better by saying they are dweebs or waste of time
@Nakdimon316 And that is the translation from the new standard version, king James version, and almost every other version and/or translation of the bible
good to see a jew that uses YHWH and Yashua rather than Hashem and Jesus. debating sami is a waste of time, as he is as irritating as a broken record.
Wow, you understood Mark 13:32 correctly! Saint Augustine of Hippo used the same argument. I made a video on the subject, where I also used context from the following verses to show Mark 13:32 means declare.
Hi SGI, they debate those guys because those guys have street arguments, the average garbage muslim objections to our faith. Thats why they address them. Also to strengthen the persecuted Christians in Islamic countries who get to deal with these silly objections on a daily basis. See it as edification for those Christians in the peace loving Islamic countries. But all in all, yeah, they are ignoramuses, that think they do Islam a service.
"Allah" changed all the time, requiring him to abrogate ayat. He even changed person in a single ayah, really adding confusion to the muddled mess of the koran.
My burning question is this: Why are the giants of Christian apologetics, e.g., White and Shamoun, debating ignorant children like Zaatari, Ahmad, Abdallah? They are dweebs, and need decades of experience before declaring themselves Muslim apologists.
If Jesus is not GOD how come he goes about arresting so-called muslim scholars and leaders all over the world and turning them to the only right way! And funny the usual reactions of the muslim world that such converts to christianity are always suffering from one mental syndrome or the other! If I were allah I would rather have healed them of their ‘mental syndromes’ than have them desert me. Watch another one here: Confession of A Former Islamic, Muslim Leader, Imam Scholar and Jihadist
TexBrunoTC 1 week ago
yes you can refute him here but not in front of thousand people .. so keep the Christians happy with these kind of tricks. Suites you all
muhammadnazim121 1 year ago
@muhammadnazim121 sami cant even sum up a thousand people if his life depended on it. Btw, we have debated this two years ago and he couldnt make a case against me or for his own position. So nice try, bud.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
Youtube wont let me post any links on the comments section so just go to see the translation of malachi 3:6 and you will see that it sees "I your lord DO not change" It doesnt say "I have not changed."
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Well sorry to break it to you but those translations dont reflect the Hebrew text accurately. The Hebrew word "shaniti" is in the PAST TENSE. And even if you would read it like that as if God doesnt change, that still wold reflect the forgiving nature of God, which befits the context, since God talks about the fact that the Jewish people could return to him and he would forgive them: He doesnt change, he is still the forgiving God that brought them out of Egypt. (v. 7)
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 hard to believe that the scholars who formulated those translations arent as learned in hebrew as you are. And context doesnt really matter in this one, its a general statement that is made.It's like me saying "I dont like cheese"anything that is said before or after doesnt change the fact that I dont like cheese. And it is logical to believe it in that way. God doesnt and should never change.The Quran says you will not find a change in Allaah's Sunnah (the way He does things)
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif It seems that you have a hard time dealing with facts. Fact is that the translation is wrong and the hebrew is in past tense. Fact is that God is talking about his character and not about him taking on other forms. So either way your objection is moot and Sami was NOT right, period. In fact, here is the Judaica Press Complete Tanach translation: "6. For I, the Lord, have not changed; and you, the sons of Jacob, have not reached the end".
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 I love how you christians always put phrases like "period!" or "Fact is" ...you define fact by your opinion...What you interpret the god of the old testament to be saying is not fact. And putting the verse in past tense would be better suited for christian aims to prove jesus's divinity...so why would all the translator not want that extra edge, especially if it is more sincere to the hebrew text? Even James white uses the King James version I believe
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Well you are definitely not a man of facts, bc James White doesnt use the KJV he uses the NASB. But the facts are the facts. The hebrew original is in PAST TENSE in Malachi 3:6, period, and no amount of translations will change that. that is a simple fact indeed. And I dont see how not putting it in past tense would at all help or detract from the divinity of the Messiah. It still is dealing with God's unchanging character and nothing else. The context is clear on that.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Malachi 3:6 (New American Standard Bible) 6"For I, the LORD, (A)do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. Same translation my friend...are you more knowledgable than Mr. White? maybe you should suggest your version to him...And you just contradicted yourself "God's unchanging character"...His character, according to the old testament is One character...No trinity mentioned in any verse of the Torah...that's why the Jews dont believe it
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif I never claimed to know more than White, but if you would approach him and ask him about the tense of the verse he would acknowledge it is past tense. Just because White uses a particular translation doesnt mean he endorses every word in that translation to be accurately translated. Furthermore, you can appeal to scholars and translations all u want but that will change nothing about the FACT that the original Hebrew text says "I have not changed".
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 And even if the verse is in past tense, let's say I agree with you...It still doesnt change the fact that it is an illogical and heretic view of the Creator...He does not change because His plans are infallible, and His essence is constant...that is why we only swear by Him...because he is the only unchangeable...and attributing anything of humanity to Him, even a second nature, is apostacy in Islam..and that is why we call it Pure Monothiesm, because it rebukes such notions.
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif yeah you swear by Allah, but Allah swears by figs ants bananas etc, so in Islamic theology swearing by Allah has no bearing on anything. Well... I guess Allah swears by treestumps because those are "unchanging in their nature" too! And please spare me the nonsense of your "pure monotheism" since u can't be saved without acknowledging Muhammad besides Allah. ur creed is not "there is no god but Allah", you have to add "...and Muhammad..." to make it to paradise. no partners u say?
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Really? what horrible double standards you apply? We humans can only swear by Allaah, but Allaah has no such restrictions...again demonstrating separation of man from Creator...so I guess christians can be saved just by believing in the father right? If I am baptised in the name of the holy spirit alone is that sufficient? ridiculous..We have to acknowledge all prophets, not just Muhammad saaws...and you know that we do not associate our prophet saaws with Allaah...worship is only
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif No that is no double standards. You are completely clueless. If the Spirit was a creature u would be right, if the Son would me a creature you would have a point. BUT THEY ARE NOT! So there are no asociations with God, since they ARE GOD! Muhammad is NOT, NOR are treestumps and figs! YHWH in the Bible swears BY HIMSELF, since there is nothing higher than himself to swear by. He NEVER swears by his creation, Allah does, which demonstrates that Allahs vows are worthless. try again!
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 again you just demonstrated the debate tactics of christian apologetics.call someone a name, and say he knows nothing,DEBATE WON.no.Of course Muhammad saaws is not God!!! AstaghfirAllaah...far be it for me to give the Creator a human identity...cant say the same for you though can I? Allaah also swears by Himself.His dominion is everything so He can swear by the things He put into existence.and nice decorum not even capitalizing he and himself, but you think he's a man anyway right?
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Exactly! So why do you NEED Muhammad to get to paradise? Why is "there is no god but Allah" enough? This makes Muhammad a PARTNER of Allah in salvation of mankind. If you still cant see how you commit shirk then you are blind! Let me hit this home by asking you a simple question: Can someone be a true Muslim by saying "There is no god but Allah and Moses is his Messenger?" if not, then you have demonstrated that Muhammad is a partner with Allah, and thus you commit SHIRK!
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Your really not getting this...again, Allaah asks us to believe in all His messengers...if we defer even one prophet, then we are not muslims...can you be a Christian by not believing in Jobe (Ayuub peace be upon him) or John the Babtist (Yahya peace be upon him)...Since they are mentioned in the bible, not believing in them would be disbelief in God right? does that make sense to you?
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Thanks for not answering the question, by dodging the question you admit that you commit shirk. I'm not talking about "believing in" a prophet. I'm talking about ascociating a prophet with your salvation. You cannot enter paradise without Muhammad in Islam, but in christianity ONLY JESUS is necessary. u cannot get to paradise by only believing that Allah is the only god, you NEED to confess Muhammad as well, which makes him a partner with Allah in salvation of mankind, i.e. SHIRK!
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 And again, double standards...I answered your question plenty of times...I told you belief in someone and worshipping someone are two different things...Your just so used to the idea that you can do both at the same time that you cant differentiate between them...We associate all prophets, all revealed scriptures with our salvation...Islam is a destimony and a criterion for previous nations, so Muhammad is included in the shahaadah so that we dont stray...
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif you havent addressed anything. can you be a Muslim and thus enter Paradise by ONLY mentioning Allah as your God, without mentioning Muhammad as well? You havent answered the question. this is the fourth time I'm asking you.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 I answered it over and over again...you just dont want to open your eyes..
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Muhamaad peace be upon him is mentioned directly in the Shahaadah because he was the last messenger to mankind, so we are asked to acknowledge him because the people of the book already acknowledged all the other prophets and all thats left for them to do is accept Muhammad peace be upon him seal in the line of Prophets and messengers...very simple concept...Neither Sam Shamoun, David Wood or anyone else ever brings this up in debates, because it is silly and easily refutable.
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif no its not that easily refutable. Sam has written numerous articles about the SHIRK in Islam in its deificaton of Muhammad, despite the fact that Islam claims "pure monotheism". David Wood also has blog articles saying the same thing. Dont lie about my brothers bc you wont get away with it. If what you say is true about "the last messenger", then Muhammad is still a false prophet, since muslims dont believe that Paul was a messenger of Jesus. Therefore ur argument doesnt work.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Deification of muhammadSAAWS??? this is where your getting really desperate my friend...no muslims on earth does such a thing....and the Quran is full of ayaat separating Allaah and Muhammad SAAWS...Paul was a messenger of Jesus? that would be really nice considering Paul destroyed his teachings...such a nice apostal right? I said they never bring it up in debates!!! thats the difference between muslim debators and christian debators
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Yes Deification of Muhammad. No one can point a finger at Muhammad without muslims loosing it. But when someone talks bad about Allah, muslims dont seem to care. Also, when people talk bad about Allah, Muslims seem unmoved, but if someone blasts Muhammad you go out of your way to threaten that person ot try to kill him. You call talking bad about Muhammad blasphemy, yet talking bad about Jesus, Moses or one of the other prophets is not. you DEIFY Muhammad!
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 If I point a finger at your mother and call her a pedophile, you would lose it wouldnt you? therefor by your logic you are deifying your mother...horrible logic you are using my friend...again...deification is only if you pray to someone or consider them divine...we dont consider him divine...but then again, you probably already get it...your just wasting time now...And i've made it clear that derision of any prophet, angel is APOSTACY in islam..
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif And yes Paul was a messenger of Yeshua, whether you like it of not. And if you claim Paul destroyed the teachings of the Messiah, then its up to you to demonstrate that. Dont make hollow claims. And you dont know the motives of them not bringing certain points up in debates. you make no sense by claiming that they dont bring things up in debates while they write articles about these things, since their articles are also addressed by muslim apologists and they defend those views.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Jesus said "Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the pharisees you shall by no means enter the kingdom of heaven" Paul said "By no means will you enter eternal life by deeds...it is by faith alone"...Jesus says "I desire repentance not sacrifice" Paul says that Jesus sacrificed his life for the sins of mankind..I can go on and on....THere are entire websites dedicated to this phenomona of Paul rewriting Jesus' doctrine.
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 you know very well that debates and articles are two completely different things...in a debate, if you say something stupid, you will get stares and laughter from the crowd and your entire respectibility could drop instantly...in an article, however, there are no eyes watching YOU...they may be watching the paper, but not you...
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Anything we say on our "blogs" or articles, we can bring up in debate...If they were to say that we deify Muhammad SAAWS, meaning we call him God, or give him Divine attributes, they would lose the debate right there on the spot...and any self respecting christian knows that....like I said it shows desperation on your part...
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 to Allaah..and you know this, so it is pretty childish to say such a thing. Tawheed is of three types: Uloohiya, Rububiya, and asma wa sifaat...meaning Tawheed of worship to Allaah, Tawheed of Lordship of Allaah, and Tawheed of His names and attributes...you know very little about muslim creed and work under the guise of someone who is learned in it.
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif I know about the divisions of Tawheed, which are IBADA, Ribubiya and Asma was Sifaat. Its funny that u mention this btw, b/c according to the Islamic standards of these categories, u have just conceded that Jesus claims to be God in the Bible, since he calls himself by some of the names of Allah: Al-Hay, Al-Haqq, Al-Ba'ith, As-Shahid, Al-Muhyi, Al-Awwal, Al-Akhir, An-Nur, Al-Badi. His followers called him other names too. THANKS! U just refuted Sami's position without knowing it.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Actually, again, you prove you know nothing about islamic creed, or at least very little, no offense...because to Allaah belongs Lordship, WORSHIP, and divine names and attributes...Jesus never once claimed either lordship or worship, and thats if I agree that those are the actual words of Jesus, since he didnt write a single letter in the gospels...Yeah, his followers called him man too.."they marveled at God, for such power he had bestowed onto MEN" Matthew
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Jesus claimed Lordship (Jn 13:13-14), he claimed worship (Jn 5:23), he claimed to be Yahweh (Mt 21:14-16), and he claimed the names of Allah. Tell me, cn any good Muslim call hiimself "Al-Haqq" or "Al-Hayy"? Can any Muslim call himself "Al-Awwal wal-Akhir"? And if not why not? and if so, why so? We have no problem with people calling him a man, because thats what we believe, he was both God and man! YOU however, have to deal with the verses that speak of his Deity, which u cant!
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 You know, we have in Islam this sect called shia...shia claim that there are 12 infallible leaders who rule the muslim world...they are a small minority in islam but nevertheless...when we ask them to direct us as to where exactly in the Quran these imams are mentioned, they give verses that are opened to interpretation by anyone in any matter...no concrete guidance...now, I believe in a God that guides His creation in the best possible matter...If God's final message is in fact the
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Gospels, why isnt Jesus divinty explicit? why are there Unitarians still around? There is no sect in any part of Islam that says Allaah is not God, no matter how misguided they are...you know why? because Allaah Almighty beats it into our brains a thousand times leaving no room for error...Now you expect me to take a few obscure verses and leave all the verses of Jesus being nothing but a man??? How about "I was not sent but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel"
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif that is because they fail to answer the questions that I pose to u. Can a messenger call himself by the names of Allah? This is what Jesus did! Can a messenger take a verse from the Quran that is about Allah and apply it to himself? That is what Jesus did by quoting OT verses that are about Yahweh and applying those 2 himself. And this is also what his followers did in reference 2 him, even calliing him their God and Savior (Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1) What do you mean "not explicit".
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 or "The father is greater than I" or "I of my own self can do nothing" or "Blasphemy against the son is forgiven and blasphemy against the Holy spirit will not be forgiven" if they are all equals in divinity why is blasphemy against one greater than the other "If i bear witness of myself my witness is not true" God needs another witness? and not to mention that the multitudes that followed Jesus around for three days, watching him perform miracles never said he was God..
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Its amazing how you people want to refute our theology with verses from our scriptures that actually support our theology. These verses fit perfectly with our theology, because our theology comes from the scriptures that testify about these things. None of these verses refute our trinitarian position and have been thoroughly addressed and refuted. We have no problem with verses that address the humanity of Jesus, YOU, however, have to explan the verses that are abou this Divinity!
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 How does Jesus saying "The father is greater than I support your theology"??? If they are all con-equals than it actulally debunks your theology...and the verse about the sins against son of man and holy ghost does the same thing...if they are equals than blasphemy against them should carry the same weight..
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif It supports my theology because we believe that the Son gave up his divine perogatives when he came down as a man and he lowered himself as explained in Philippians 2:5-8, therefore the Father is greater than the Son. like your father is greater than you in rank, but that doesnt make your father MORE human than you, or makes you LESS human than your father. Likewise, because the Father was greater than the Son in rank doesnt make the Son less Deity than the Father.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Thank you so much my friend.you've just said what the priests and bishops would never dare to sayTHE FATHER IS GREATER THAN THE SON IN RANK.therefore, why would you worship Jesus when there is one greater than him in rank.its like having two kings of one country, but one king has more authority.both are kings.but one is more deserving of obedience than the other...get it? and how can you give up your divine prerogatives and THEN TAKE THEM BACK...it was a meaningless sacrifice then..
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Here you are milleniums after Jesus performs the miracles and you say he's God, but the people WHO WERE THERE never called him that...dont you think that this is strange? No prophecy of Jesus by name is mentioned in the Old Testament, and it says he will be called Emanuel...wth? he was never called that at all was he? please open your heart my friend..
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Answer the questions I have posed to you. Those are the arguments I base my theology on that Jesus is Divine. If you cannot address them, then leave me alone, since you then demonstrate that you cannot deal with them and thus concede the point that Jesus is God.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 I told you already, stop repeating yourself...I cannot answer those arguments, just as you cannot answer mine...This just proves that the bible is split as to who exactly Jesus was and that the allegations that the gospels that are included in the bible are to assuage fighting sects that thought of him as prophet and God are true. I can interpret all of the verses you quote to mean different things, but its a waste of time because you have different interpretations.
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Oh I'm answering all your objections, but you arent answering anything. thts the problem. If we have documents from the first century from the community that was headed by the apostles of Yeshua who call him "Lord", ther "God", who attribute to him Divine qualities, such as Creator, then HOW ON EARTH, can you claim that he was none of these things and that the first believers didnt believe these things either? You simply take what you can use and disregard what destroys your case.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 My friend, there is not a single statement in the bible where anyone calls Jesus "God"...And even in the Quran people are called lords...it doesnt mean lord in the theistic sense...it means master...and you probably know this...it is a common term used in those days for kings and people who are respected..ex "are you frightened my lord?"...get it....You have documents from the first century? does that include the bible? no it doesnt...there have been many revisions to it anyway so
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif As for your claims about "lord", yes they mean it in theistic sense. Yeshua is not just a lord, but THE Lord. Expressions like "the grace of the Lord Jesus" are not just like earthly lords. Nor is any earthly lord called the "overseer of our souls". Only ONE is overseer of our souls and that is God. Could anyone say this of Muhammad or of any human prophet? Who besides God is the shepherd and overseer of souls?
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 No one else...you have a point...During Jesus' ministry...as in, when he was walking the earth...can you give me one verse when someone addresses him, in his presence, with that usage of Lord? No, you cant...that's what I meant
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif LOL! Yeshua HIMSELF claims he is YHWH, the God of Israel. I have already pointed u to Matthew 21:14-16 where he applies a verse that is about YHWH from the OT to himself. That is even stronger evidence than him saying "I am God". Furthermore, he calls himself the Recurrector, the Life, the Truth, claimed to share in the glory of the Father before the world was made, Peter calls him the Lord who knows all things (John 21), Thomas calls him "My Lord and My God" (John 20) Had enough?
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 it doesnt matter really...There have been several statements in bible were take out...and they werent just statements where someone said "hi"....they had theological implications, as my brother AbdAllaah put it...so you can never really trust it much...
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 The qoutes I gave you from the new testament are GENERAL STATEMENTS that cannot mean except that which is apparent of their meanings. And I dont use the Bible as a proof for Jesus' prophethood...I merely use it to show christians how unclear it is...The creed of a people is supposed to be mentioned explicitly in there sacred book...Throughout the entire bible the words trinity, and bible are never mentioned...and Jesus never says "I am God" leaving it to your scholars to interpret
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif No they are statements within a specific context that u seem to have no regard for. Which is the typical muslim method. Those texts I use are NOT unclear, they are as clear as day.let me repeat myself: Yeshua takes verses from the OT that are ABOUT YAHWEH, the God of Israel, AND APPLIES THOSE TO HIMSELF! How is that not as forceful as saying "I am God"? His followers did the same thing. Would u be able to take a verse from the Quran about Allah and apply it to Muhammad? YES OR NO?
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Are you reading what i'm writing??? I told you I cant answer that...if thats what he does in the bible then, fine, i'm all for it....now do you recall instances in the bible where Jesus totally eliminates any thought of him being God...among the ones I listed, which you addressed only one, and it still did not prove anything....there are more...for instance...Jesus told someone not to call him GOOD...why would he want them to call him GOD...does that make sense to you...would God be
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif ok since you keep claiming that The Bible never calls Yeshua God, let me repeat the question one more time, if you dont answer, then this convo is over: If Yeshua applies verses from the OT that are about YHWH to himself, what is he saying about himself? If the apostles apply verses from the OT that are about YHWH to Yeshua, what are they saying about Yeshua? For example: are you allowed to apply Surah 1:2 and 4 to Muhammad? If not, WHY NOT?
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 I never said the bible doesnt call Jesus God...pay attention my friend...I said no one in the bible calls him God...they refer to him as son of man and son of David...and even son of God doesnt mean what you think it means...if you want to end the convo that is fine...because i concended to the fact that he might have appllied divine names to himself, but you insist on not addressing any of the verses i pointed out in which Jesus utterly separates himself from God.
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif You said " there is not a single statement in the bible where anyone calls Jesus "God"". This means that no one, not Yeshua himself, nor his disciples, nor the authors who were companions of the disciples, call him God. I posed you the questions based on these words. So now answer the questions. Yeshua applies OT verses about YHWH to himself. Deal with it. Yeshua doesnt seperate himself from God, he seperates himself from the FATHER, since the Father is not the Son and vice versa.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 The Father is not the Son? and vice versa? so they are not one in the same? they are two entities? POLYTHIESM.get your creed straight my friend.either they are one in the same, or they are not.either they are of equal rank or they are not.either they do the same things, and have the same knowledge or they are not." of that hour knoweth no man, not the angels, NOR the SON" oh but I guess he gave up that prerogrative too.because in your opinion, God can turn his God-ness on and Off
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif thank you for conceding that whoever Yeshua was claiming to be one with, it was not Allah, since Yeshua called his God "Father" which automatically makes him the "Son" of his God, which is what Allah denies! Thank you! Whoever he was worshipping, praying to, called his God, it wasnt Allah, hence he wasnt a Muslim. Go ahead and end the convo. Thanks for conceding to my theology and admitting that the Bible DOES teach Yeshua is both God and Man. Finally a muslim who is honest.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Do you get it now? Again...I'll say it slower...THERE ARE VERSUS IN THE BIBLE THAT MAKE IT SEEM AS IF JESUS IS GOD...BUT THEN AGAIN, I HAVE GIVEN YOU ALMOST TEN REFERENCES IN WHICH HE CLAIMS THAT HE IS NOT GOD, AND HE IS JUST A SERVENT OF GOD DOING HIS FATHERS WILL, AND EVEN ASKED THE FATHER TO "REMOVE THE CUP" (THE CRUCIFIXION) FROM HIM, AND WHEN HE WAS CRUCIFIED HE SAID "GOD O GOD WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME" the bible is one big contradiction...end of story
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif SO again you are not answering. When people attribute verses about Allah in the Quran to Muhammad it doesnt SEEM that they claim he is Allah, they ARE CLAIMING he is Allah, period! Likewise, when the Bible attribute verses about YHWH to Yeshua, it doesnt SEEM they say he is YHWH, they SAY HE IS YHWH, period! So deal with the argument: Is it SHIRK when you apply a verse that is about Allah in the Quran to Muhammad? If not, why not? if so why so?
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 I think I should end this convo lol...because i've answered you at least five times now...I told you I conceded to that already....but you havent addressed one of the almost ten verses I quoted for you about Jesus' mortality, so it seems like your just playing games and dodging my questions
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif I dont have to answer your question since you already have conceded to my theology, which is that the BIBLE, NOT Constantine or anyone at Nicea, teaches that Yeshua is BOTH God and man. Thank you.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 Your welcome...dude...ma Sha Allaah...but you are pretty closed...I conceded out of sincerity to one point, not your entire theology...but you fail to reciprocate...my purpose is complete then...have a great time man worshipping and calling it something else....fight your inner bias and accept islam in sha Allaah..that would be best for you...peace.
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Sorry, you have conceded that the Bible teaches that Yeshua is both God and Man, that is conceding to my theology. But this is what happens when one honestly looks at the text. One is forced to accept that conclusion. So from now on, I hope you follow your sincere ways and stop supporting people like Sami Zaatari, Zakir Naik, Osama Abdallah etc, and stop endorsing Ahmed Deedat when they seek to distort the Biblical testimony of the Deity of Yeshua. Thanks!
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 ok with people calling him Son of DAVID??? or Son of Man? which he uses to refer to himself, every single time??? is God that low, in your opinion...that he has to make a mockery of His divinity and lower himself to being abused...He loves us, and that is why he forgives us when we repent...His justice is not so that he will send his son (which is actually him somehow) and have him killed for a sin he did not commit
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 whatever they want of his supposed statements.
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 And if that is truly your creed then you have disbelieved in the God of the bible...because it says "Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill..
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif Which shows your lack of understanding. We dont believe God is a man, we believe God became a man for a specific purpose. second, that verse doesnt say God cant ever take upon himself the form of a man. It, again, speaks about God's character: God is not a man THAT HE SHOULD LIE... God, unlike man, doesnt lie, if he says something he will do it. when he promises if he will fulfill it. that is what the text is about.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 God became a man for a specific purpose? meaning he COULDNT ACCOMPLISH THAT PURPOSE BEING GOD???? so he had to become a man???? that is why unitarians get sick upon hearing that...you lower God to HAVING to do something...God is never at a corner where he has to change his form, and even worse, Kill himself...how can God die...dont you see the problem? and if you say that God's Human form died, again that is not in accordance with your creed which says that God died for his creation
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif If God chooses to become man for a specific purpose, then who are you to tell God he cant? Your prophet is recorded to have said that Allah comes down to see who is praying to him and who asks his forgiveness. Does that mean that Allah cant hear or see who'se praying to him without coming down? No Muslim will claim that! Because God does things one way doesnt constitute that there is no other way for him to do it. Stop making fallacious arguments.
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 He does not say that Allaah comes down to see who is praying...that is a lie...I memorized most of that hadeeth so you know that that is not what it says at all...He says that Allaah comes down to the nearest heaven when a thrid of the night is through and says "Who is calling me that I may grant him what he asks?" its an exclamatory statement...your the one that is making wierd arguments...no sincere christian would accuse a muslim of shirk based on the shahadah lol
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 so man dying would not be enough
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
go to bible gateway and look at the verse This guy lied and the verse says exactly what sami said....you guys just try to make yourself feel better by saying they are dweebs or waste of time
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
@wesamalshaif what verse says exactly what sammi said?
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 And that is the translation from the new standard version, king James version, and almost every other version and/or translation of the bible
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
asdfadf
wesamalshaif 1 year ago
Sami also talks about how he's some kind of language student or something, while mistaking the word "haply" to mean happily...
lol, like Jesus was like, "yay, figs!"
krononomikon 1 year ago
good to see a jew that uses YHWH and Yashua rather than Hashem and Jesus. debating sami is a waste of time, as he is as irritating as a broken record.
florinu123 1 year ago
This is excellent. god bless you brother!! Sami seems like such an ignorant person, no humility or kindness about him. hes not good for islam.
ThePtno1 1 year ago
Nice video.
GBU
sukasukagw01 2 years ago
Hi SGI, I am Sam Shamoun and agree fully with you that these kids are a waste of time. They are disgraces to their own religion.
shamounian 2 years ago 3
Wow, you understood Mark 13:32 correctly! Saint Augustine of Hippo used the same argument. I made a video on the subject, where I also used context from the following verses to show Mark 13:32 means declare.
/watch?v=Re9uFf_zsVs
Glorthac 2 years ago
Hi SGI, they debate those guys because those guys have street arguments, the average garbage muslim objections to our faith. Thats why they address them. Also to strengthen the persecuted Christians in Islamic countries who get to deal with these silly objections on a daily basis. See it as edification for those Christians in the peace loving Islamic countries. But all in all, yeah, they are ignoramuses, that think they do Islam a service.
Nakdimon316 2 years ago
"Allah" changed all the time, requiring him to abrogate ayat. He even changed person in a single ayah, really adding confusion to the muddled mess of the koran.
My burning question is this: Why are the giants of Christian apologetics, e.g., White and Shamoun, debating ignorant children like Zaatari, Ahmad, Abdallah? They are dweebs, and need decades of experience before declaring themselves Muslim apologists.
SGl963 2 years ago 2