What is defamation? (A lesson for HowTheWorldWorks)

[Razorgeist]

Dammit this is horseshit I have a fetish for syphilitic grandmothers....oops I said that out loud again.

[thesparitan]

LMAO great stuff

[esj8341]

For the purposes of the elements of defamation, is Lee a public figure?

[TheNamelessCharacter]

How many attempts did you have before you could keep a straight face?

[SisyphusRedeemed]

@TheNamelessCharacter That was actually easier than having to watch a HTWW video.

[TheGreatFoxKing]

Ain't nothin wrong with goat lovin boy!

[4gl2u]

So your defense is that Thunderf00t is not guilty of defamation, but instead that he's guilty of propagating defamation which he presumably agrees with. Gee, that put him in a much healthier light; thanks for helping.

[bigmustafa]

Not completely true. There is a thing called the "republisher rule." That is, even if thunderfoot did not create the video, by posting it on their account they may be considered a re-publisher of the information. Kind of complex, look into it.

[Matsutom]

Hahahahaha, owned!

Straight face for the win here. Well spoken!

Love and light

Namaste

[Smokatronic]

Syphilitic Ninja Vampires anyone?

Nice vid *subscribed

[DepricatedZero]

Wow. This was awesome.

[yanikv]

The best vid I have seen so far.

[Origen305]

watch?v=qdNZPwqUjkc

This video may be of interest to all interested in Free speech, new media, and libel. Very germaine!

[mccainisthrough]

Excellent. We did a video on defamation some time ago. lee doran is a twit who has no idea what the hell he's saying. how the world works should be renamed "stuff for morons."

[ticijev]

HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha HA ha . ... Ha!

Instant subscribing :)

5*

[kazooga1234]

lofl this is so ha bisky i love that u made this vid howtheworldworks caz just shut up he is stupid

[somtwo]

ROFL!

Also, ROFL!

BTW, ROFL!

In case you were wondering, ROFL!

[quinnmcguee]

This video is so full of win. I think you've used up the world's supply of win in this one video.

★★★★★

[Im4science]

LMAO!

[OriMeissa]

Hehehe!! Nicely done, sir. Oh so nicely done!! :)

[FlightIsLife]

Sub'd

[blizzard7006]

dude your'e crazy you're straight faces had me rolling man, you're very creative with Lee Dorin

[ZangaroZen]

@SisyphusRedeemed, ROTFLMAO.

Great straight face video, had me in stitches.

Let me guess HTWW one starred this video, removed it as a response to his channel, deleted all your text posts and blocked you?

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Glad you liked it. I try. (Might I humbly recommend subscribing, if you haven't already?)

I didn't even try to post it as a reply, nor have I ever posted on his videos. I know exactly what will comes of that.

[ZangaroZen]

@sisyphusRedeemed, yes I'm a subscriber.

Hate to break it to you, but Mr. Doren has likely proactively blocked you for any number of reasons already, this video being only the most recent.

If you post a comment on ANOTHER person's video that HTWW didn't like, you'd likely be blocked.

If your user name was LeeDorenIsAidiot, you'd be blocked already too.

I could go on.

Documenting the removal of a fine video reply such as this, would be a fine video in itself... hint... hint...

[TheRingil]

Sisyphus, you're right in essence but your reasoning and evidence are wrong.

Defamation isn't determined by truth or the absence of it. You just have to prove malicious intent, something near impossible to do in our justice system. Also, those who propagate defamation (in this case Tf00t) are liable too if defamation is proven.

This is exemplified in New York Times v. Sullivan. Look it up.

Overall, Lee's case is egregiously malarkey if he pursues it, but you need to do some research too.

[isaachaze1]

i haven't looked at demation in quite a while (haven't had reason to), so i could be wrong about this. i believe truth is simply a defense to a claim of defamation. Also, i believe there is a different standard for "public figures". malicious intent isn't necessarily hard to prove, just depends on the facts. where is Profmth? he knows this stuff cold :)

[TheRingil]

Malicious intent is one of the hardest things to prove in a U.S. court of law. It's a simple fact. Very few cases after NYT v. Sullivan have actually succeeded in stopping what the plaintiffs claim defamation. The problem always comes down to whether it's intentional or not. And seeing that is something highly subjective and near damn impossible to prove, the benefit of the doubt always goes to the defendant.

Lee makes video for supplemental income on Youtube. He is a public figure.

[isaachaze1]

like i said, i haven't looked at it in a LONG time (since law school actually), so you may well be right. and i definately agree that lee would qualify as a "public figure".

[TheRingil]

Yeah, I'm filling out my law school apps as we speak. Wish me luck.

[isaachaze1]

hopefully you have decent lsats and good luck :).

[baaltshuvah]

The Free [Legal] Dictionary says regarding NYT v. Sullivan that a "plaintiff who has voluntarily assumed a position in the public eye must prove that defamatory statements were made with knowledge that they were false or with reckless disregard of whether they were false." It also defines defamation (in part) as "any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation." This suggests that the veracity of the communication is intrinsic to the case, no?

[TheRingil]

What you just said can be paraphrased into two words: malicious intent.

[baaltshuvah]

I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand; I find this interesting. You wrote that "defamation is not determined by truth or the absence of it." But the definition above suggests that falseness (absence of truth) is integral to a defamation claim. I guess what Im asking is: if person X, with malicious intent, exposes public figure Y as having engaged in deeply unethical behavior, BUT the allegation is 100% true, is person X committing a defamatory act?

[TheRingil]

Again, defamation is all about malicious intent. Truth comes in when you're trying to invoke this. Doing this is near impossible; hence, media in this country can do pretty much anything they want.

Even if the allegation is completely false, the accused will most likely be acquitted. If it has some or full truth to it, the accused will almost certainly be acquitted.

Overall, defamation is whether you desire to harm the person regardless of his or her actions.

[TheRingil]

Because this is such personal crime, the benefit of the doubt always goes to the accused. In your scenario, person X will most likely be acquitted but whether X committed defamation, only X truly knows.

If X did it to inform the public, then it's journalism. If X did it because of any previous spite against Y, then it's defamation. If it's a mixture of both, the courts will decide it's not defamation unless proven otherwise.

[baaltshuvah]

Okay, that makes sense. It does seem, as you say, that this law is hopelessly difficult to enforce, especially given the number of viable defenses against it (opinion, innocent dissemination, good faith statements, etc.). Thanks for taking the time to clarify.

[WayOfTheBastard]

What happened to your mic? You sound very thin and tinny. Good video though.

[0okamino]

I'm willing to believe that Lee does not collect the soiled panties of pre-teen girls for his own purposes. I don't know of any use an android would have for such things.

[niqueth]

I heart this video!

[DarkMatter2525]

Good, witty stuff. I know this is a pretty random comment, but you really remind me of Quentin Tarantino. All you need is a hint of madness.

[bobble12221]

Brilliant video! Thanks

[thunderpants10]

Excellent!

[Iced1992]

The ending was epic.

[angelwhite]

I enjoyed the ending most of all ^_^

[Antichryst666]

That was funny....I think you enjoyed making this video....lol

[BionicDance]

"Syphilitic Grandmothers" would be a GREAT name for a band.

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Somehow I doubt telling a girl 'Yeah, I'm the base player for the Syphilitic Grandmothers' would get one much play.

[BionicDance]

Kinna depends on the girl, dunnit? ;)

[whosthechamp]

Lmao... Leave it to BD to come up with this line of thought... lol

[Nades129]

I have proof that Lee Doren humps goats. I have it on video

[Ploppy17]

Loved it.

[xblindx]

actually.... lee is a lawyer. just thought i'd throw it out there.

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Did he actually graduate law school? I'd heard he'd attended, but not if he actually matriculated and passed the bar.

Either way, not knowing the law on this topic should merely add to his public shame, making it even harder to actually defame him. (Another exception to the law is if a person is already held in such low regard that your words can't possibly bring him any lower.)

[xblindx]

i believe he is a legit lawyer. they've had him on Fox news and CNN and i think they revealed his profession (or his JD at least).

[plopo404]

He can legally practice law in the state that has Illinois.. currently hes trying to pass the bar in Washington DC. He fucked up comprehending the law multiple times. He posted a video suggesting for people to spam porn and such to the government. Check up Antybu86's video and you'll see what I mean. Worst case for ease of finding video.. I mirrored it and it's my only uploaded video

[MisappliedRhetoric]

"I heard he'd attended, but not if he actually matriculated and passed the bar."

So it seems he's a law student who's thus far failed to pass the bar?

I won't pretend this is tremendously revealing; but I can say, with perfect honesty and absence of exaggeration, it ranks among the least surprising things I've ever heard.

[kenotube]

So with that exception to the law, does that mean I can see anything I want (true or untrue) about OJ Simpson, Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, George Bush or possibly even HTWW (or does HTWW have a little ways to go to hit bottom)?

[kenotube]

Whoops! Meant "SAY anything I want".

[Brandonduboff]

@SisyphusRedeemed lol at my school, we call a person as you described, "defamation-proof".

[castroherman]

LOL 5 stars

[JasperAvi]

So can I, or can I not, make a video explaining the long sordid history that Lee Doren has with the anuses of Spider Monkeys?

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Well, you CAN make such a video, but whether it will count as defamation will depend on whether or not you have evidence (such as, say, a pile of dead Spider Monkeys with Lee's... I'm going to stop right there for the sake of what little decorum I have left.)

[mambuduomally]

best video of the day lol

a good old whoppin for HTWW

[xblindx]

why does he deserve a whoppin? out of most economically conservative voices out there he's one of the most logically sound, cites his sources, and keeps his debates civil as far as i've seen. that's not to say i agree with him all the time, but i'd like to see a little more room for discourse (even on youtube)

[Jermbot15]

"cites his sources,"

And whenever I need a good laugh I always take a look at this sources.

[h8uall66]

For the most part I agree with you, but he does have a tendency to ignore mistakes he has made, which leads many to think that he either doesn't care or is dishonest. This is a poor strategy for someone that is claiming to have the truth on his side. Everyone makes mistakes, and for the most part we acknowledge them and move on. He will bring more people around to his side as soon as he starts doing that.

[xblindx]

i dunno? he has tons of videos addressing his mistakes including time lines of events of his accused mistakes. i've watched all his videos, and lee seems to cover his basis in the same way sisyphus does. what i like about Lee's and Sisyphus vids is that they present logical arguments and valid rebuttals. i'm happy to subscribe to them both even if i may not agree all the time. better than watching that fake sport wrestling they call news on Fox, MSNBC, and CNN.

[h8uall66]

Well it's entirely possible that I have made a mistake. I also do not agree all the time with Sysiphus and HTWW. Would you mind sending me the videos you mentioned? By the way, isn't this cool? Adults having a rational disagreement without resorting to name calling or character attacks. My guess is that you're like me and appreciate it as well. I think that some of the channels we subscribe to could learn from us.

[xblindx]

definitely agree. all i can say is "FINALLY." it's pretty late where i am, but i can try to send you those vids later on. i believe he does have his video's labeled as replies? though i'm not100% sure.

[LennyBound]

Jerry Falwell lost his virginity in an outhouse with his mother and a goat.

:-)

[Stitchman3875]

So what?  Chuck Norris lost his virginity before his father did.

[FacedPalmedPlanet]

*chuck norris just removed this reply

[SisyphusRedeemed]

FSM bless the first amendment. Ramen.

[mercenarybdu]

enlightening =)

[SisyphusRedeemed]

I suspect he may actually be against the drug war. Haven't heard him speak to it, so I may be wrong, but he seems to lean libertarian, and they tend to opposed the drug war. But I'm speculating.

[terrarising]

Good video.  You summarized in less than 3 minutes what I couldn't do in 15! :)

[SisyphusRedeemed]

I had to resist the temptation to go on much longer, but I feared it would get redundant quickly.

[Joddit]

Lovely!! :)

Now be honest!! Did you or did you not make this video just to be able to say all these things about our dearest Lee??

(You should probably answer this question in some sort of code, otherwise it could count as defamation. Or couldn't it?)

[SisyphusRedeemed]

I am a humble public servant, my good fellow, and only wish to edify and enlighten.

;)

[Joddit]

Aha!!

(Coded message received and understood!!) ;)

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Crap, maybe I defamed him by saying it WASN'T true. Uh oh...

[Xerock]

No one defamed HowTheWrongWorks. HowTheWrongWorks defamed his own lack of a character.

The rest of YouTube only exposed his bullshit.

[SaintJimmyI]

Hahha "rate it, favorite it, subscribe" no defamation involved :D

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Glad someone thought that was funny. I was going for tongue-in-cheek, but I fear it's come off as subscriber whorish.

[jcurious]

Wait?!? Did I just hear someone say that Lee Doran sodomizes goats?

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Well, I've never heard him deny it...

[samdrophy]

This is too funny.

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[Toledosteal]

Why you gotta sub whore, Sissy? We know where all the buttons are.  Still 5 starred and favorited.

[SisyphusRedeemed]

I was trying for tongue-in-cheek, to go with the tone of the rest of the vid, kind of a jab at the way HTWW always does that. Guess it didn't quite work.

[Hereticbooks]

Fucking brilliant! YOu're quickly becoming one of my favourites.

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Thanks for saying so.

[averagekid82]

How can we be certain that he does not collect the soiled panties of pre-teen girls??

[SisyphusRedeemed]

I have yet to hear him deny it, after all...

[TheNakedAtheist]

And if he did deny it (using Brock Lawley Logic) it would make it more likely to be true.

[Edella]

:) You've make a complicated legal matter simple enough that a child could understand it. Actually, add some hand-puppets and this could be shown to children as is; some animation and we have a new schoolhouse rock episode.

I know you teach at the college level but you might consider teaching the wee ones in your free time. You have a knack for it.

[GoblinXXX]

The Schoolhouse Rock version would be "Defamation, an ex-plan-a-tion".

[Borror0]

This video is so awesome in many, many ways. Most particularly the ending.

[DasAmericanAtheist]

I'm so glad this went up! You made the right choice.

[CousinoMacul]

I saw that movie. It was great!

[GoblinXXX]

I thought it lacked texture. (And did nothing to explain his eerie, fish-eyed stare!)

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Perhaps his eyelids have atrophied after years of peeping into middle school locker rooms. (I'm not saying that's THE CASE, just that it would explain it.)