Seriously though, I love Japan, and I love their culture. But if i'd been living there for a long time, and understand maneurisms and the politeness, but i'd still be treated unequal, I wouldn't stay there for long to be honest.It seems to me Mr.Bobbyjudo, that as much as you love the country, you are kind of subjugating yourself to a whole batch of un-necessary bullshit.Making a video on youtube to get pity from people, when you don't have to subjugate yourself to it in the first place is lame.
You know, people worry about mastering the language and culture but...do the Japanese themselves master their own language and culture??? Many have no idea about their own stuff.
The college i desire to go study is in the university of Tokyo but i just wanted to get your thoughts seeing as how u already live in japan i am aware of student and work visas but what you wanted to have a more permanet stay is thier a way to get the japanese citizenship without relinquishing the ones you already posses in my case i already posses two German, and U.S. arigatougozaimasu cant wait to here your thoughts on the matter
Konnichiwa Bobbyjudo san I am a highschool student who is graduating within this year i live in south florida and have a strong interest in japan i wanted to get your thoughts on citizenship in japan im 17 iv travel Europe, South America. Iv always loved traveling im currently learning Japanese and i wanted to know how to obtain japanese citizenship with out giving up the german and american citizenship i already posses
Well, no one can say you're being unreasonable. It's a given that, if you treat other with respect, you deserve the same in return. Anyhow, hope things work out for you in the end.
I can somewhat understand how you feel. I was basically raised in the Japanese culture and went to a Japanese Saturday school and speak fluent Japanese. Unfortunately, some people say I am a "wannabe Japanese", I'm not ethnically Japanese but I am Japanese inside. I eat, talk, and act like they do. It is kinda frustrating when I go to Japan and people treat me differently because I don't look Japanese...
I think it is the same here in the US. More of a social way of judging tho. By clothing or economic status. Tend not to think "Forigner" untill we hear you speak. After that some racist many make remarks about ethnic heritage. But that being said there is no real American Culture. American Culture is an Ideal a thought a way of thinking. "Freedom" earned in blood, taken by force. Freedom to be bold and loud and say what you feel and not fear what others may think. No more space to write~
I can't go into detail (due to time and character limits) but trust me when I say that you are actually accepted more than you realize. You need further study of tatemae/honne, uchi/soto dynamics to understand this. The "laughing" at you for sounding nihonjinppoi, is not meant to be hurtful, it's actually coming from an inferiority complex. I just wanted to say that you don't have to feel bad about it, it's actually the opposite effect what Japanese are trying to achieve.
by the way, I was just thinking... some of my french family members act opposite. the french, they think I should be able to speak french in france. just extreme examples.
dude, i'm a fun of your cookin show. good luck with your life in japan. I know the situation of japanese make fun of foreigners when they talk like or act like japanese... my father is same to my wife. i am japanese and my wife is french. we live in europe so not a big deal but my french family don't do this to me as much compared to my japanese family to my wife. japasense would say 'sugoi ne' for everything. anyways, I miss japanese food so I have to learn how to cook. ciaaao.
You will always be labeled as a foreigner in japan no matter if you like it or not.. trust me reversing the issue as an asian guy living in the mid-west United States 65% of the time I meet somebody for the first time at a "personal level", i always get questioned about my ethnicity and "where i came from" even though I was born here. Even through we try our best to assimilate, those questions and looks are inevitable
I really like the way you speak about this topic. I´m thinking of going to Japan as well and I´m slightly worried because I do want to "fit in" but I also know that I will always seem different to them because I´m not Asian. I also heard that no matter how good your Japanese is, how well you know and respect their culture etc you will always be a Gaikokujin <-- a foreigner. Once again thanks!! I´ll take a look at your other videos. がんばれ！
Hahahaha, wow... Sorry but that was amazingly entertaining line about them still being impressed that you can use the phone, or that clapping when you were counting
I enjoyed your video a lot. While it is not that surprising to see Asians speaking English, as a Chinese American, I'd still be shocked to see a Caucasian to speak Mandarin, especially more when he is fluent, even in a multicultural state like California. It's just that Ive never seen it before. I agree that ppl will need to hang out w/you a lot before they see u differently. That's a good point that you'd not know if the Japanese ppl are honest to their feelings when speaking to you..
I am an American back home planning my next trip to Japan to make a film which touches on what you spoke about. When I lived there I could have been your twin. I'd experienced practically everything you did. I love Japan but speaking like a Japanese IS discouraged...love to meet you for an interview! Keep up the great work. You make me proud and those of us with these same aspirations will always be a minority in their country and in ours. But anyway, America yaro!!!!!!!!!!!
you dont have to deal with it, I think living in japan is too difficult for foreigners and not because the job hunting or something, BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE!! THATS SO SAD
i feel u. i going to college in osaka and plan to stay here for anothr year or two. i understand the foregin thing its stressful as fuk and i want to go back to USA. but i guess i have it better than you cause im half japanese. dont stand out as much.
i totally agree with you, i am living here and i know what you mean, you just forgot to add that japanese want to make you do things like them same as them which means as you said changing your self into something your not, so they are very selfish , and they dont see you as a human but as a foreigner and think of you as not same human as them but maybe some tribe from some jungle moved in japan,,, my opinion japs are very weird ,,,,,,with the rest of the world's people ,,
definitely the most thoughtful commentary i've found so far on this topic. i'll add that a lot of people on this message board don't realize that living as a white man in japan is in no way similar to the experience of living as a japanese guy in america.
You're a bright man. I appreciate the insight, and the video was very helpful, as well as appreciated. Don't mind the hate comments, they'll come, they always do. Enjoy your Japanese experience, hopefully I see you there sooner rather than later.
I've been living in the UK for 11years, and people do laugh at me when I say something with a Scottish accent. It's a little absurd, considering i've been here my whole adult life so I don't think it's a Japanese thing. They also sometimes laugh when I get things wrong. Today I exchanged a couple of lines with a security man n he straight away asked me where I was from.I don't understand the obsession but it happens all the time, it gets old. At least in Japan they know you are not one of them.
I find watching your video I see a lot of me in what you are saying. I am English and work with a lot of Polish people and I find myself thinking and acting in the way you mention and had never really thought about it but yeah I'm surprised when the Polish people I work with speak perfectly and I sometimes compliment them or comment this video is a bit of an eye opener for me and I wonder how i will feel with the shoe on the other foot when I go to japan :) thanks for a great vid
I must say that you foreigners in Japan are so sensitive. Those Japanese you so care what they say are just ignorant bunches. When Japanese is in the US, they get the same kind craps you do in Japan, you know.
@tubexris Yeah, I know. But I bet Japanese people in US talk to their friends about the same kind of crap. Does that make them "so sensitive" or just human?
@bobbyjudo You got me there, but I meant to say you get that kind of stuff anywhere. I would make it a funny story to tell, but not something to gripe about. These Japanese are, again, usually very ignorant or living in a very closed world, and don't know what to talk about with you. And I must say that's how they are, you have to worm yourself into their 'group' if you want to feel one with them.
@bobbyjudo Yes, I have seen more of the recent videos you made (and I realized this video was made more than a year ago). Looks like you have gotten over it and having a happy life! I'm glad that you have been successful :)
@bobbyjudo I have 2 japanese friends here in the (girls)...and they were both raped after going to a club and went back to their country... I mean quite frankly I lived in Japan for 4 years and from what ive heard from japanese and what ive personally seen living in the US as a japanese is much worse than vice versa. The so called accepting and multi cultural US is a fantasy. THey get cat calls, suffer from slutty asian stereotypes and all other nonsense.
You are right both Japanese history and culture is homogenous. However in some cases try to think of this parallel. If you meet a girl do you treat her first as a girl then as a human being? Well its hard to say they are both on top of the list and shift up and down with each other sometimes depending on the circumstance and situation. Can you say to people treat me as a human first and don't see the girl part?
@JinSage Not seeing the girl part is impossible. Stephen Colbert likes to joke that he "doesn't see race," to point out how ridiculous that actual idea is. But being color or gender blind isn't a solution to anything. Ideally, it would be great to acknowledge/recognize differences in age/sex/race without letting it completely change the way you treated a person. Does that mean I don't hold doors for girls? No. But I think that girls deserve all the same rights/treatment I get, for sure.
@bobbyjudo Tough to explain but I lived and grew up in America. Would it surprise you to say I feel that same way you feel in Japan? Maybe not to the extreme as you mentioned but often times pretty damn close and this is in a diverse environment in Silicon Valley where the minority is the majority.
@bobbyjudo On bumping into another Japan blog soulofjapan about Japanese in the US here is what he said:
"They find total freedom in being completely (un)Japanese......but they can never be completely accepted into Western society without being identified as a Japanese, same for Westerners living in Japan. No matter how Japanese many of us foreigners are we can never be accepted into Japanese society completely."
Parity in the American frame of mind may not apply in another culture.
@JinSage Which is actually a much more serious statement than anything in this video. To consider your parallel in context, imagine a girl who smoked cigars, drank whiskey, and liked to eat, I dunno, something typically manly. That girl might get comments like, "WOW, you drink whiskey?"
Now to bring the comment back to Japan level, take a literate girl. Is it cool to be like "WHAT? You can read?"
But, haha, that might be a shade extreme. The reality is somewhere in between those examples. :)
@tymar520 In my video I talked about people seeing me as a foreigner first and not a human being. JinSage suggested that I imagine the same statement, but replace "foreigner" with "girl." I think his/her point was that differences matter and they affect how we treat people. But Japanese people are sometimes surprised that I can do things like eat, drink, speak, and read... so my point was, the "girl" example doesn't really work when you take it to the same extremes.
Im an Asian girl who recently left London after studying & working there for several years. Your experiences in Japan are somewhat similar to mine, that no matter how fluent my English is, most people I knew in London still saw me as a foreigner first & a fellow human being second. I guess it’s only natural human behaviour. Happens everywhere, not just in Japan, unfortunately.
just like to say that if its like hong kong(ive spent a fair amount of time there) its mainly because of how u look becuse again if its lk hong kong ur probably the first person they have seen that looks diffrent without being that diffrent but for them to no just how much u are like them, is pretty impossible..
omg is it really that difficult to leave in japan??Because i am actually thinking of going to japan for my master but i am kinda scared now=p..ok i can say i am kinda used to being treated as a foreigner because i 'm now studying in france which is not my country of origin so i know the feeling of being treated as a different ''specie''..but it looks like it's a lot worse in japan..please answer cz i really want to know if it's that difficult...
hey I've heard of you before and im glad I found your channel. looking forward to future videos. ;) But, just one question for you on this topic -- for me in the states I'm very outspoken and honest. so if a japanese would act very surprised at my japanese or anything 日本人っぽい that I might do.. I think I would act like I would in the states just in.. japanese. maybe be like...そんなに驚かせることじゃねえだろう？ったく・・そう言うのもう止めてくれない？やかましいから
No amount of money could make me go back to Korea. I realized I would never be truly accepted by the Korean and did not want to waste anymore of my time there. So why do you remain there? Are you one of those weird foreign guys that like the attention they get from the local girls? Usually these foreigner guys were very ugly, weird or mental. Basically they r rejects from the States. You are actually cute. Why r u living there? It doesn't seem u like it even though the girls must love u
Be realistic. Of course they will always see you as a foreigner. The same thing happens to foreigners in the USA. Even if they speak English and gain American citizenship. And yes your right this is their view and it is not going to change. So either you accept it or leave. I understand what you are feeling though. I lived in Korea for a year and they also act like foreigners are a freak show. I finished my 1 year contract and got the hell out of there.
@MIGATITAUSA I don't know where you visited from the USA, but there are multiple places that are like that. I lived in San Jose, CA, USA (west coast), and coming from a small valley, it is filled with multiple nationalities. It was common to see middle eastern, asians, hispanic, and other natioanilities mixed like nothing. No one gives them a second thought as a "foreigner". It depends where you go, really.
You're feelings are well structured. Me personally, I barely get that issue. For those that did what you mentioned I told them to stop it, and they listened.
Japan does need to open up more. It is a huge global player and Japan will fall behind unless gov't educates and revises immigration. This is why Japan behaves this way (ie your inner/outer circle ex.)
There are foreign suffrage issues in Japan. It's worse for others like Chinese, Koreans, Filipino, and Brazilians in Japan.
now you know how I feel while living in the US :) there is nothing that can surprise, from what you just said. Its the same for me here in the US, its the same no matter where you go. People are like this, they are racist, till its time for them to move, and experience the racism of other people on themselves.
@smokelakes i dont know why it got a thumbs up, apparently I'm not the only one that has experienced it. You are lucky to live in a place that no one does that. Did you move to Bay area? or were you born there and haven't even experienced how it feels on your skin? If so, you are ignorant, one for thinking that if you dont do it, nobody does it. and two for talking to me about such stuff with no experience. I live in New Jersey and pretty much everyone does that.
@poli21 no, youre still missing the point. you said that its the same no matter where you go. i disagreed and gave an example of how youre generalization of the US is not true.
re-read our posts, and rethink who is the ignorant one.
youll also find the part about "you are ignorant, one for thinking that if you dont do it, nobody does it" contradicts what you are saying, and making your statement hypocritical... because its not me whos making a generalization....its you
@smokelakes how would you know what i went through while living in US? listen i dont feel like arguing over such things with a person that knows nothing. have a great day
@poli21 i thought having unreasonable generalizations and an inability to have an argument was childish?
stop trying to avoid conflict by ignoring anything else that conflicts with your points of view.
i proved you wrong and who had no rebuttal. unless you have a rebuttal to the actual topic, ill keep letting you know that you have a weak way of thinking. and yes, i can make this assumption because of the way you have responded.
As you say, there is inside and outside. In Japan, outside is almost always easier and most Japanese people assume that you will wish to remain there. Why would you want to be inside? You are not Japanese. Other foreigners endlessly play the gaijin card, happily reaping the benefits of being outside. But you are thinking as a Japanese person, even though you are a foreigner. You wish to belong more than you wish special treatment. It *is* unusual! It will take time but people will notice.
My first wife, who I lost in a car accident in 1991, was Japanese. I was married to her for 14 years. Now I am married to a Chinese woman. I speak both Japanese and Mandarin. I have recieved the smiles and the laughs in both countries when I speak their languages as a native. This response is not limited to Japan. It is in all of Asia. But, I do find the Chinese people much more accepting of me into their society than do the Japanese. I am sorry to say this but it is just a fact. Live and learn!
hey, sorry for being an a*s earlier. I was bored and read your below comments. I don't even think you should further pursue this topic. The end result really doesn't change anything, and who knows what Japan will be like 5 years from now. Have a good one!
@destiny3005 No worries. I agree with you. I spent a lot of time back and forth with joe, and I think in the end, you're right. I don't agree with him, but I don't feel the need to talk about it anymore.
The compliments; being able to use the phone, counting, or anything else they compliment you for, are just their way of being overly polite. As I'm sure you're aware by now, Japanese people compliment each other in really weird, over-the-top ways also. They really don't mean it any more than you would if you complimented someone for being able to do something you've seen them do countless times. It's just the culture of Japanese fake politeness and small talk as a way to make conversation.
@joebenevides I agree that most of the time they're trying to be polite and make conversation and they don't know what else to say. But I disagree with everything else. Young people are starting to compliment each other more, but, everywhere but on TV, Japanese people are known for NOT giving compliments. They don't have what they consider the 褒める文化 (praise culture) of the west. Receiving compliments is often more embarrassing than validating, and that's why you're expected to turn them down.
@bobbyjudo: You're really reading way too much into my statement. My issue is that you seem rather put off by Japanese people complimenting you. Since they're just being polite, I reply humbly that "Oh no, I'm (not, don't, can't, etc.)". Even if the compliment is deserved I never just thank them.
BTW: No need to use kanji. It's conceited, like you're showing off your Japanese skills which is diametrically opposed to the whole concept of Japanese humility.
@joebenevides Have you seen my video about humility? I said pretty much the same thing, so I totally agree with you there.
And you seem to have missed what I was saying again: It's not being complimented that bothers me. It's being complimented in a way that demonstrates that they see me as "other." You can argue with that all you want, but it's not just my opinion. It's a well documented, and pretty universally accepted aspect of Japanese culture.
@bobbyjudo Yes I have, but you are not being humble by complaining about their politeness. That's what irritates me. You are the "other" an always will be. If you want to scrape away any "otherness" you should accept their compliments with humility by playing them down and not complain publicly. After all, would you rather they be overly polite or just plain rude? I'll take fake politeness, myself.
@bobbyjudo: Yes, because we are all expected to say, "oh no, I'm not really very good." We can throw the occasional "arigato gozaimasu" in front but still play it down as humbly as possible, otherwise we are seen to be arrogant and full of ourselves.
@joebenevides Wow, you are a real ass. It's seems that the whole point he was making went right over your head and then you decided what he was trying to say. You irritate me with your superiority complex and rudeness. Oh, and I won't comment back to any insults cuz I won't be pulled in to your bashing and know-it-all crap and I like this video for his honesty.
@mjraven51400 Gee; commenting on a dialog from 9 months ago. Stalk much? You're obviously not Japanese, because because Japanese culture dictates not to pick fight with strangers and throw ad hominem insults around. My guess is that you're just another American who has no desire to learn anything about other cultures and is an embarrassment to your own.
@joebenevides I am an American citizen and am treated as such in the US even though I was born and grew up elsewhere. So once again, you think you know it all and make judgments, but you know nothing. You just proved my point. My native country welcomes foreigners as well and does not ostracize them. That should be a culture that you obviously need to learn about.
@mjraven51400 Think you're spot on in your evaluation of Joe, but you had the right idea when you said you weren't gonna comment back and make this into an insult contest. Let it go. You'll only frustrate yourself.
@joebenevides But that's beside the point. A Japanese person would never compliment another adult Japanese person on their chopstick ability. Or their ability to use the phone. Or to count. I don't think you would ever compliment a member of your peer group on things that everyone in said group was expected to be able to do. It's not a matter of being complimented for silly things. It's a matter of being clearly labeled as outside of the peer group.
@bobbyjudo: Of course they don't compliment each other on common things Japanese people should already know, but they do compliment each other on clothing, boy/girlfriends, hair style, and other similar things Westerners do, but unlike Westerners their compliments are less sincere and more small talk, getting-to-know-you conversation starters. You're right that this applies to the younger generations. Work peers, superiors in age, social status, etc., are not going to throw compliments around.
@joebenevides I also don't see anything conceited about using a Japanese phrase in a discussion about Japan/Japanese. I used Japanese because that's the easiest way to refer to it. I included an English explanation because I don't have any way to tell your level of Japanese ability, and because I think people besides the two of us might read this. It wasn't my intention to show off.
While I don't agree with you, you do seem very well-versed and knowledgeable. Are you living here still?
@bobbyjudo Using kanji when communicating with someone in English is indeed showing off. I've asked some opinions about it and all have agreed with me. In the same way if you were communicating in kanji but translated some words into Latin alphabet. Unless you're trying to teach them how to read our alphabet, it's just trying to prove how "smart" you are. Not humble at all.
@joebenevides It strikes me as odd that you keep saying "kanji," when I think you mean "Japanese." You'd have the same problem if I had written it entirely in hiragana, right?
I guess I don't see it the same way, because I have a lot of exchanges with people who speak both languages, and we mix and match without giving it any thought. Since I don't know, it may have come off as pretentious, so... sorry.
I'm really considering making a video about the other stuff we're talking about...
@joebenevides When I worked in schools, we did a lesson about how foreigners feel about being complimented on chopsticks (not my lesson, it's in the Japan-made textbook.) As part of the lesson, we had the students compliment each other on chopstick use. We also had them imagine that they were in America, and we went around the class complimenting them on things like being able to use forks or tie their shoes. Every student agreed that it was offensive, and made them feel bad.
@bobbyjudo Interesting to note what happens when you show them what fake politeness looks like from the other side. Good lesson plan, but it still doesn't bother me since they don't know any better. My experience with Japanese students in the U.S. gives me a different perspective that's hard to get from being in Japan. Here they soon feel free to speak their minds as they're liberated from "tatemae" culture. It's interesting what can be learned about Japan when they're free to speak their minds.
@joebenevides I've crossed a personal line with the amount of time I've spent arguing on the internet, but I really feel like your position on this is oversimplified.
I also think that saying "Using chopsticks is nothing special," is an equally valid way to express humility and also true. Saying "Oh, no, I can't use chopsticks," perpetuates stereotypes about foreigners... and is just silly.
@bobbyjudo Silly to us, but not to them. The best way to no longer feel like the "other" is to learn to think like them. It's taken me 30 years to mellow out about it. When I was your age it drove me nuts! The humility and harmony evolves with accepting what you cannot change.
@joebenevides I respect your opinions; however, I disagree with using kanji to emphasize a cultural aspect as being conceited. I'm sure those who worked hard to learn kanji appreciate being able to read that word. As far as the politeness being fake, isn't customer service everywhere else much a live show? I don't smile at the cash register because I care. However, it still makes customers happy, doesn't it? It's probably better to be fake polite than impolite.
@destiny3005: To show off ones knowledge needlessly is not at all demonstrating the humility that is central to Japanese culture. Period. The Japanese say that the nail that sticks out gets hammered back down.
Regarding fake politeness, you made my point, which is that bobbyjudo needs to chill out and accept their compliments with humility since most would agree that a compliment, even when insincere, is much better than rudeness.
@joebenevides I understand where you're coming from. I did read that you're in your late 30's? So our generation gap might cause an alternate view of "Japan" as a whole. Since you translated the proverb "出る杭は打たれる", I'm sure you've heard of this one: "大同小異". It means "Similarities outweigh the differences". We both agree on the importance of "politeness", but I must say that too much of it can sometimes become rude, in this case, pointing out someone's strength when it is so obvious, is it not.?
@destiny3005 Whoah. Bad move using kanji in a conversation with Joe. I too, am of the opinion that fake politeness is a form of rudeness... but seriously, let Joe be. I think he's older than late 30s, so he has tons of experience speaking with Japanese students in English and reading about what it means to "be Japanese." In a contest of who's most humble, he's made it clear that he would blow us away. Let's just end this here, cool?
@joebenevides You misread my entire discussion from the start, Joe. If you watched my other videos (or even this one), it would be clear that I don't intend any value judgements about Japanese cultural standards. This video was about me talking about the frustrating aspects of being a foreigner in Japan, which will by definition always be "other." I don't expect it to change. I don't always like it. Nothing you say will make that less valid.
@joebenevides I also own my own flaws and am willing to look at things as more than black and white. In other videos, I admit hypocrisy when I say that I enjoy aspects of the special treatment as much as I loathe others.
The bottom line for me is this: You've never lived here and you don't speak Japanese, but you've set out to explain to me how wrong, conceited, and "non-Japanese" I am, while at the same time loudly proclaiming your own humility.
@joebenevides A truly humble person wouldn't have posted in the first place, let alone turned the conversation hostile because I used some Japanese you didn't know.
And yeah, the fact that I put this much thought into your comments makes it pretty obvious that I think too highly of myself and my opinions. I probably wouldn't be making public videos in the first place if I didn't. But I can admit that to myself.
I get the sense that you don't even realize how arrogant you come off.
@destiny3005 Yep; by Western standards too much insincere politeness is considered rude. The problem stems from us judging other cultures by our standards.
@joebenevides I'm not living there. Just 30 years of working with Japanese students and study. Going next May for a few weeks, but as a tourist. I don't plan on contacting those I know because I don't want them to feel obligated to take care of me when I'm there. I'd feel bad that they were disrupting their lives for me. It'll be a stealth trip. ;o)
You are a foreigner regardless but i know what you mean you want Japanese people to treat you as just another human, you don't want the fact that your from another country to get in the way of how they act towards you.
sorry bobbyjudo, you probably have been asked this already.... but i mean, wouldnt you be happy if that stuff happened? like I would think that living somewhere where even the easiest things that i can do would be looked upon as extremely impressive, would be good! walk up to some guy and say "hey wheres the nearest mall?" and have the guy go ":O omg that is so cool that you can say that!!" genuinely, I cant see anything wrong with that.... dont you ever like... feel special?
@destiny3005 Are you saying that's true for you? I think Japan categorizes ALL foreigners. When you come to Japan you will be seen as an English speaking white person. And you'll get all the stereotypes that come with that.
I did a job a few weeks ago with a Ukranian woman who didn't speak a word of English. And yet, all of the Japanese people around us kept trying to talk to her in English. At the end of the day, she was almost in tears. Who you ARE won't matter, you'll just BE the category.
i definitely hear where you are coming from. My Dad told me about this western lady who has lived most of her life in Japan and is even a traditional tea ceremony teacher in her home town. She's just as "Japanese" as the Japanese people, and yet, because of her looks, whenever she goes out she's treated like a foreigner who doesn't understand Japanese or the culture...
@yoshimaru12 I definitely hear where you're coming from too. Post-five-times town, if I'm not mistaken ;)
But yeah, it's all about looks. I feel worse for people from other asian countries or foreigners of japanese descent who get blamed for NOT being proficient enough in Japanese language or culture.
i definitely understand where you're coming from. even my better friends here in japan are always surprised if i know some slang or if i use a word that most "gaijin" don't know even when they know that i am, in fact, japanese.
there's this lady that my dad told me about that is a westerner who lived most of her life in japan. she's teaches the traditional japanese tea ceremony in her town. but no matter what, she's always treated like she can't speak the language and...well...a just "visitor"
i definitely understand where you're coming from. even my better friends here in japan are always surprised if i know some slang or if i use a word that most "gaijin" don't know even when they know that i am, in fact, japanese.
there's this lady that my dad told me about that is a westerner who lived most of her life in japan. she's teaches the traditional japanese tea ceremony in her town. but no matter what, she's always treated like she can't speak the language and...well...a just "visitor"
i definitely understand where you're coming from. even my better friends here in japan are always surprised if i know some slang or if i use a word that most "gaijin" don't know even when they know that i am, in fact, japanese.
there's this lady that my dad told me about that is a westerner who lived most of her life in japan. she's teaches the traditional japanese tea ceremony in her town. but no matter what, she's always treated like she can't speak the language and...well...a just "visitor"
i definitely understand where you're coming from. even my better friends here in japan are always surprised if i know some slang or if i use a word that most "gaijin" don't know even when they know that i am, in fact, japanese.
there's this lady that my dad told me about that is a westerner who lived most of her life in japan. she's teaches the traditional japanese tea ceremony in her town. but no matter what, she's always treated like she can't speak the language and...well...a just "visitor"
Hi, I didn't read all the comments below. But I do want to ask you, because I am learning Japanese want to go to Japan, why do natives treat foreigners differently if they're skilled in the language. I do understand the group aspect, but I'm trying to look deeper into it. Do you think they're ashamed of their own skills and afraid of change, that being the foreigner? Because you're a guy, I think it would be easier for you to adjust. What is your take on it?
why did you go there? did you move there with ur family? or did u just go there by ur slef? or did you go there just 2 pick up women.well u will always b a Foreigner when I vist anoter country I am looked @ as a Foreigner and always will b thats how it is
@HarPlayer I came by myself after college to work and to see what it was like. I'm not talking about being seen as a foreigner when I walk up and down the streets of somewhere I'm visiting. I'm talking about wanting to feel like I fit in with people that I've lived with and worked with for years.
Im Filipino but i dont look like the standard Filipino so im used to people thinking Im a foreigner..i grew up in a English speaking household so i have an accent that people think was generated by living overseas.
Just be cool with the gaijin status you have buddie, you know that will always see you as different and the issue will never leave even if you have a family there you will always be the white guy with a Japanese wife. Show them you are a contributing member of society.
No worries man, I get treated the same exact way even here in Germany.
Germans always are surprised at how I speak German so fluently, and I always need to tell them that I am actually a German, who just has been studying in the USA. They keep doing it to the point where it is getting annoying, and see me as you have described, foreigner first - human second, partly because I am of asian descent, half at that.
In summary and comparison, USA has been best as accepting me. But still no worries.
From your point of you, you want them to see you as a regular person just like them. I could see how you think that, in America there are a lot of races, hell almost every race lives in this country. If you saw a Chinese person walking into a store you probably wouldnt be surprised. What if this was the case where Chinese people in your neighborhood usually dont speak English. Then a Chinese person comes out of no where talking with a Eng. U'd be surprised Japanese people dont do it on purpose.
Wow! I didn't thought that they were a lot foreigners living in Japan and people wanting to move there. Anyway this is the first time I've seen your videos, thanks to that one video of Ciela and you being in it. :)
I think your Japanese friends give you a compliment because they themselves feel good with a compliment even if they know it's just a flattering word, and they assume you feel the same way. I mean, if they think you are different from them and feel the different way, they won't give you any compliments at all. So, this proves that even if you want to be treated like ordinary Japanese, your way of thinking or feeling itself is different from them, don't you think?
why are always the bloggerrs in japan always be alone? no friends allways alone in the streets, in schools, bars, restaurants... I guess the depression rate are very high in japan when it comes to foreigners, comments please about this
@cuzcatlanochenta No, japan can be really amazing. To me, there is nothing bad about living in japan as a black guy. Almost like 0% racism. Not much violence. Some people hate japan, I do see why. They're depressed, but that's because they're not living life. They're not out making friends, and traveling and having a great time. Some people cant handle living in a new country, with many different things. So they just automatically feel sad. But people that i know have amazing lives in japan :D
Bobby, I'm not sure if anyone's made this connection; the scenario that you're describing sounds generally like the way I feel as a gay in America. Granted, I don't get discriminated against, as long as I don't make it clear that I am gay. Nonetheless, it's a tad disconcerting to know that some people are kind to me because I'm acting like something I'm not—when I do play the straight, male character.
@ReyFortea I understand the basic feelings of being left out, or having people not see/accept the real you... but other than that it seems like kind of a stretch.
I'm not pretending that I'm a foreigner, or presenting myself in a way that they can't tell I'm a foreigner. And I'm willing to bet that the discrimination that gay people face in America is a lot harder to deal with than my stupid complaints.
I'm not sure as to the differences in levels of discrimination, as I am not in Japan. However, I feel that the level of discrimination here fluctuates tumultuously, from area to area and person to person.
Thank you for your response, and I hope your blues have bloomed into colors more brilliant and uplifting. :)
When I lived in Japan I always felt that the 'in-group' vs. 'out-group' dichotomy was omnipresent and stifling. A foreigner attempting to make a life for themself in Japan must have a thick skin to survive. Like you I was pretty young when I lived in Japan and I struggled tremendously. Now that I am older I feel like I could be able to handle it better but I don't think I would ever feel completely at ease with myself as I do in my home country. LIving in Japan taught me a lot about myself...
ya growing up in a Canadian city it the locals who stand out, I used to live in Winnipeg one of the most diverse city in country, so ya people acting weird around foreigners is something alien to me.
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unetotaleincognito12 38 minutes ago
Seriously though, I love Japan, and I love their culture. But if i'd been living there for a long time, and understand maneurisms and the politeness, but i'd still be treated unequal, I wouldn't stay there for long to be honest.It seems to me Mr.Bobbyjudo, that as much as you love the country, you are kind of subjugating yourself to a whole batch of un-necessary bullshit.Making a video on youtube to get pity from people, when you don't have to subjugate yourself to it in the first place is lame.
Faerlon123 5 days ago
Why are you staying there if you don't like the way they treat foreigners??.... Why don't you go to your country where you like the system...???
mjstar27 1 week ago
You know, people worry about mastering the language and culture but...do the Japanese themselves master their own language and culture??? Many have no idea about their own stuff.
yanyanyanyan70 1 week ago
Oh my god!
I was an american 16 year old who wants to live in Japan for a little bit.
Im not japanese and dont speak the language at all. you opened my eyes.
I will keep those things in mind. Thank you for sharing!
marioncullen16 3 weeks ago
Do you think an African American like myself could make it in Japan
2chocolab 1 month ago
The college i desire to go study is in the university of Tokyo but i just wanted to get your thoughts seeing as how u already live in japan i am aware of student and work visas but what you wanted to have a more permanet stay is thier a way to get the japanese citizenship without relinquishing the ones you already posses in my case i already posses two German, and U.S. arigatougozaimasu cant wait to here your thoughts on the matter
kidnitroful 1 month ago
Konnichiwa Bobbyjudo san I am a highschool student who is graduating within this year i live in south florida and have a strong interest in japan i wanted to get your thoughts on citizenship in japan im 17 iv travel Europe, South America. Iv always loved traveling im currently learning Japanese and i wanted to know how to obtain japanese citizenship with out giving up the german and american citizenship i already posses
kidnitroful 1 month ago
Well, no one can say you're being unreasonable. It's a given that, if you treat other with respect, you deserve the same in return. Anyhow, hope things work out for you in the end.
ILolAtYourDemise 2 months ago
japan is the great place to be overall as long as you build up trust and respect their cultural you will be okay.
first they see you as foreigner and human second, This is naturally happens in any countries.
Thank you for sharing and good lock,
Go Japan Go
darvishvancouver 3 months ago
I can somewhat understand how you feel. I was basically raised in the Japanese culture and went to a Japanese Saturday school and speak fluent Japanese. Unfortunately, some people say I am a "wannabe Japanese", I'm not ethnically Japanese but I am Japanese inside. I eat, talk, and act like they do. It is kinda frustrating when I go to Japan and people treat me differently because I don't look Japanese...
SimplyPandafuru 3 months ago 3
I think it is the same here in the US. More of a social way of judging tho. By clothing or economic status. Tend not to think "Forigner" untill we hear you speak. After that some racist many make remarks about ethnic heritage. But that being said there is no real American Culture. American Culture is an Ideal a thought a way of thinking. "Freedom" earned in blood, taken by force. Freedom to be bold and loud and say what you feel and not fear what others may think. No more space to write~
defechan 4 months ago
I can't go into detail (due to time and character limits) but trust me when I say that you are actually accepted more than you realize. You need further study of tatemae/honne, uchi/soto dynamics to understand this. The "laughing" at you for sounding nihonjinppoi, is not meant to be hurtful, it's actually coming from an inferiority complex. I just wanted to say that you don't have to feel bad about it, it's actually the opposite effect what Japanese are trying to achieve.
iwnuta 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
by the way, I was just thinking... some of my french family members act opposite. the french, they think I should be able to speak french in france. just extreme examples.
HiroTaniguchi2 5 months ago
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HiroTaniguchi2 5 months ago
dude, i'm a fun of your cookin show. good luck with your life in japan. I know the situation of japanese make fun of foreigners when they talk like or act like japanese... my father is same to my wife. i am japanese and my wife is french. we live in europe so not a big deal but my french family don't do this to me as much compared to my japanese family to my wife. japasense would say 'sugoi ne' for everything. anyways, I miss japanese food so I have to learn how to cook. ciaaao.
HiroTaniguchi2 5 months ago
nice restaurant!
stiga7852 5 months ago
You will always be labeled as a foreigner in japan no matter if you like it or not.. trust me reversing the issue as an asian guy living in the mid-west United States 65% of the time I meet somebody for the first time at a "personal level", i always get questioned about my ethnicity and "where i came from" even though I was born here. Even through we try our best to assimilate, those questions and looks are inevitable
r1oot 5 months ago
I really like the way you speak about this topic. I´m thinking of going to Japan as well and I´m slightly worried because I do want to "fit in" but I also know that I will always seem different to them because I´m not Asian. I also heard that no matter how good your Japanese is, how well you know and respect their culture etc you will always be a Gaikokujin <-- a foreigner. Once again thanks!! I´ll take a look at your other videos. がんばれ！
Thegoldenlock 5 months ago
Hahahaha, wow... Sorry but that was amazingly entertaining line about them still being impressed that you can use the phone, or that clapping when you were counting
Lazysav 5 months ago
I enjoyed your video a lot. While it is not that surprising to see Asians speaking English, as a Chinese American, I'd still be shocked to see a Caucasian to speak Mandarin, especially more when he is fluent, even in a multicultural state like California. It's just that Ive never seen it before. I agree that ppl will need to hang out w/you a lot before they see u differently. That's a good point that you'd not know if the Japanese ppl are honest to their feelings when speaking to you..
kwanhui1990 6 months ago
I am an American back home planning my next trip to Japan to make a film which touches on what you spoke about. When I lived there I could have been your twin. I'd experienced practically everything you did. I love Japan but speaking like a Japanese IS discouraged...love to meet you for an interview! Keep up the great work. You make me proud and those of us with these same aspirations will always be a minority in their country and in ours. But anyway, America yaro!!!!!!!!!!!
briskproductions1 6 months ago
@briskproductions1 Sounds like a cool project. Keep me posted.
bobbyjudo 6 months ago
if you are white, people are going to think you are a foreigner and stand out and be seen as different.
you can think that is a negative or you can use that as a positive.
it's all in your mind.
Thegus0 6 months ago
you dont have to deal with it, I think living in japan is too difficult for foreigners and not because the job hunting or something, BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE!! THATS SO SAD
hoseisakku 6 months ago
i feel u. i going to college in osaka and plan to stay here for anothr year or two. i understand the foregin thing its stressful as fuk and i want to go back to USA. but i guess i have it better than you cause im half japanese. dont stand out as much.
HoBLifyX 7 months ago
I'm used to not fitting in, so I wouldn't mind living in Japan. But I prefer Mongolia.
AthosAmo 7 months ago
i totally agree with you, i am living here and i know what you mean, you just forgot to add that japanese want to make you do things like them same as them which means as you said changing your self into something your not, so they are very selfish , and they dont see you as a human but as a foreigner and think of you as not same human as them but maybe some tribe from some jungle moved in japan,,, my opinion japs are very weird ,,,,,,with the rest of the world's people ,,
ermali999 7 months ago
definitely the most thoughtful commentary i've found so far on this topic. i'll add that a lot of people on this message board don't realize that living as a white man in japan is in no way similar to the experience of living as a japanese guy in america.
qazxsw9871 7 months ago
this guy is not smart enough to live in foreign countries
dumb damerican
kreeenaky 8 months ago
@kreeenaky lol y do you say he is a dumb american?
axsmith234 7 months ago
@axsmith234 first of all, he looks retarded.
kreeenaky 7 months ago
@kreeenaky hes obviously not retarded..... way to just say shit for no reason.
axsmith234 7 months ago
You're a bright man. I appreciate the insight, and the video was very helpful, as well as appreciated. Don't mind the hate comments, they'll come, they always do. Enjoy your Japanese experience, hopefully I see you there sooner rather than later.
UIevo 9 months ago
I've been living in the UK for 11years, and people do laugh at me when I say something with a Scottish accent. It's a little absurd, considering i've been here my whole adult life so I don't think it's a Japanese thing. They also sometimes laugh when I get things wrong. Today I exchanged a couple of lines with a security man n he straight away asked me where I was from.I don't understand the obsession but it happens all the time, it gets old. At least in Japan they know you are not one of them.
saayamatsuki 9 months ago
I find watching your video I see a lot of me in what you are saying. I am English and work with a lot of Polish people and I find myself thinking and acting in the way you mention and had never really thought about it but yeah I'm surprised when the Polish people I work with speak perfectly and I sometimes compliment them or comment this video is a bit of an eye opener for me and I wonder how i will feel with the shoe on the other foot when I go to japan :) thanks for a great vid
GarethIzCool 9 months ago
You are a Gaijin
SweetCash33 9 months ago
finally someone i can relate to >.<!!!!
lenny2435 10 months ago
I must say that you foreigners in Japan are so sensitive. Those Japanese you so care what they say are just ignorant bunches. When Japanese is in the US, they get the same kind craps you do in Japan, you know.
tubexris 10 months ago
@tubexris Yeah, I know. But I bet Japanese people in US talk to their friends about the same kind of crap. Does that make them "so sensitive" or just human?
bobbyjudo 10 months ago
@bobbyjudo You got me there, but I meant to say you get that kind of stuff anywhere. I would make it a funny story to tell, but not something to gripe about. These Japanese are, again, usually very ignorant or living in a very closed world, and don't know what to talk about with you. And I must say that's how they are, you have to worm yourself into their 'group' if you want to feel one with them.
tubexris 10 months ago
@tubexris I recognize that. I hope you have the chance to watch some of my other videos. I've made a lot of them, and they're usually gripe free.
bobbyjudo 10 months ago
@bobbyjudo Yes, I have seen more of the recent videos you made (and I realized this video was made more than a year ago). Looks like you have gotten over it and having a happy life! I'm glad that you have been successful :)
tubexris 10 months ago
@bobbyjudo I have 2 japanese friends here in the (girls)...and they were both raped after going to a club and went back to their country... I mean quite frankly I lived in Japan for 4 years and from what ive heard from japanese and what ive personally seen living in the US as a japanese is much worse than vice versa. The so called accepting and multi cultural US is a fantasy. THey get cat calls, suffer from slutty asian stereotypes and all other nonsense.
ForChwo 7 months ago
You are right both Japanese history and culture is homogenous. However in some cases try to think of this parallel. If you meet a girl do you treat her first as a girl then as a human being? Well its hard to say they are both on top of the list and shift up and down with each other sometimes depending on the circumstance and situation. Can you say to people treat me as a human first and don't see the girl part?
JinSage 10 months ago
@JinSage Not seeing the girl part is impossible. Stephen Colbert likes to joke that he "doesn't see race," to point out how ridiculous that actual idea is. But being color or gender blind isn't a solution to anything. Ideally, it would be great to acknowledge/recognize differences in age/sex/race without letting it completely change the way you treated a person. Does that mean I don't hold doors for girls? No. But I think that girls deserve all the same rights/treatment I get, for sure.
bobbyjudo 10 months ago
@bobbyjudo Tough to explain but I lived and grew up in America. Would it surprise you to say I feel that same way you feel in Japan? Maybe not to the extreme as you mentioned but often times pretty damn close and this is in a diverse environment in Silicon Valley where the minority is the majority.
JinSage 9 months ago
@bobbyjudo On bumping into another Japan blog soulofjapan about Japanese in the US here is what he said:
"They find total freedom in being completely (un)Japanese......but they can never be completely accepted into Western society without being identified as a Japanese, same for Westerners living in Japan. No matter how Japanese many of us foreigners are we can never be accepted into Japanese society completely."
Parity in the American frame of mind may not apply in another culture.
JinSage 9 months ago
@JinSage Which is actually a much more serious statement than anything in this video. To consider your parallel in context, imagine a girl who smoked cigars, drank whiskey, and liked to eat, I dunno, something typically manly. That girl might get comments like, "WOW, you drink whiskey?"
Now to bring the comment back to Japan level, take a literate girl. Is it cool to be like "WHAT? You can read?"
But, haha, that might be a shade extreme. The reality is somewhere in between those examples. :)
bobbyjudo 10 months ago
@bobbyjudo Wait, so girls in Japan don't read?
tymar520 10 months ago
@tymar520 I hope that's a joke :)
bobbyjudo 10 months ago
@bobbyjudo Oh haha no it wasn't really.. but I think I just misread what you said in the other comment.
tymar520 10 months ago
@tymar520 In my video I talked about people seeing me as a foreigner first and not a human being. JinSage suggested that I imagine the same statement, but replace "foreigner" with "girl." I think his/her point was that differences matter and they affect how we treat people. But Japanese people are sometimes surprised that I can do things like eat, drink, speak, and read... so my point was, the "girl" example doesn't really work when you take it to the same extremes.
bobbyjudo 10 months ago
You nailed it with contrasting the "U.S. multiculturalism" vs. "Japan's homogeneous culture" example. So true, so true.
japanbrats 10 months ago
Im an Asian girl who recently left London after studying & working there for several years. Your experiences in Japan are somewhat similar to mine, that no matter how fluent my English is, most people I knew in London still saw me as a foreigner first & a fellow human being second. I guess it’s only natural human behaviour. Happens everywhere, not just in Japan, unfortunately.
zizi8175 1 year ago
just like to say that if its like hong kong(ive spent a fair amount of time there) its mainly because of how u look becuse again if its lk hong kong ur probably the first person they have seen that looks diffrent without being that diffrent but for them to no just how much u are like them, is pretty impossible..
gost939 1 year ago
LOL!
I see an opportunity for pranks >:D
colmonhs 1 year ago
omg is it really that difficult to leave in japan??Because i am actually thinking of going to japan for my master but i am kinda scared now=p..ok i can say i am kinda used to being treated as a foreigner because i 'm now studying in france which is not my country of origin so i know the feeling of being treated as a different ''specie''..but it looks like it's a lot worse in japan..please answer cz i really want to know if it's that difficult...
sweetvampy5 1 year ago
if things are offensive to you, why not mention it to the person doing it?
endauthority 1 year ago
YOU GO BOBBY JUDO!!!!!!
BeckXXX7 1 year ago
hey I've heard of you before and im glad I found your channel. looking forward to future videos. ;) But, just one question for you on this topic -- for me in the states I'm very outspoken and honest. so if a japanese would act very surprised at my japanese or anything 日本人っぽい that I might do.. I think I would act like I would in the states just in.. japanese. maybe be like...そんなに驚かせることじゃねえだろう？ったく・・そう言うのもう止めてくれない？やかましいから
FranksAJATT 1 year ago
No amount of money could make me go back to Korea. I realized I would never be truly accepted by the Korean and did not want to waste anymore of my time there. So why do you remain there? Are you one of those weird foreign guys that like the attention they get from the local girls? Usually these foreigner guys were very ugly, weird or mental. Basically they r rejects from the States. You are actually cute. Why r u living there? It doesn't seem u like it even though the girls must love u
MIGATITAUSA 1 year ago
Be realistic. Of course they will always see you as a foreigner. The same thing happens to foreigners in the USA. Even if they speak English and gain American citizenship. And yes your right this is their view and it is not going to change. So either you accept it or leave. I understand what you are feeling though. I lived in Korea for a year and they also act like foreigners are a freak show. I finished my 1 year contract and got the hell out of there.
MIGATITAUSA 1 year ago
@MIGATITAUSA I don't know where you visited from the USA, but there are multiple places that are like that. I lived in San Jose, CA, USA (west coast), and coming from a small valley, it is filled with multiple nationalities. It was common to see middle eastern, asians, hispanic, and other natioanilities mixed like nothing. No one gives them a second thought as a "foreigner". It depends where you go, really.
xxremix1 1 year ago 5
@bobbyjudo
You're feelings are well structured. Me personally, I barely get that issue. For those that did what you mentioned I told them to stop it, and they listened.
Japan does need to open up more. It is a huge global player and Japan will fall behind unless gov't educates and revises immigration. This is why Japan behaves this way (ie your inner/outer circle ex.)
There are foreign suffrage issues in Japan. It's worse for others like Chinese, Koreans, Filipino, and Brazilians in Japan.
rdfox 1 year ago
now you know how I feel while living in the US :) there is nothing that can surprise, from what you just said. Its the same for me here in the US, its the same no matter where you go. People are like this, they are racist, till its time for them to move, and experience the racism of other people on themselves.
poli21 1 year ago 17
@poli21 no, your missing the point. he said that no matter what, they see white people as foreigners first, a human being second.
its not like that here. for example, i live in the bay area....pretty much no one does that.
why did this comment get a thumbs up? its very wrong
smokelakes 10 months ago
@smokelakes i dont know why it got a thumbs up, apparently I'm not the only one that has experienced it. You are lucky to live in a place that no one does that. Did you move to Bay area? or were you born there and haven't even experienced how it feels on your skin? If so, you are ignorant, one for thinking that if you dont do it, nobody does it. and two for talking to me about such stuff with no experience. I live in New Jersey and pretty much everyone does that.
poli21 10 months ago
@poli21 no, youre still missing the point. you said that its the same no matter where you go. i disagreed and gave an example of how youre generalization of the US is not true.
re-read our posts, and rethink who is the ignorant one.
youll also find the part about "you are ignorant, one for thinking that if you dont do it, nobody does it" contradicts what you are saying, and making your statement hypocritical... because its not me whos making a generalization....its you
smokelakes 10 months ago
@smokelakes how would you know what i went through while living in US? listen i dont feel like arguing over such things with a person that knows nothing. have a great day
poli21 10 months ago
@poli21 no reasonable argument after i proved you completely wrong?
then act like the fact that you wont argue is because youre not in the mood?
i thought so. and others will also see right through your last reaction to my comment.
please think more next time. thanks ;)
smokelakes 10 months ago
@smokelakes yes others will see how childish you act, hope you feel good by proving me nothing. you win, now dont reply please
poli21 10 months ago
@poli21 i thought having unreasonable generalizations and an inability to have an argument was childish?
stop trying to avoid conflict by ignoring anything else that conflicts with your points of view.
i proved you wrong and who had no rebuttal. unless you have a rebuttal to the actual topic, ill keep letting you know that you have a weak way of thinking. and yes, i can make this assumption because of the way you have responded.
smokelakes 10 months ago
Is american money worth more over there?
Midnightryder7 1 year ago
@Midnightryder7 American money is worth less than Japanese yen.
okiboy1103 1 year ago
As you say, there is inside and outside. In Japan, outside is almost always easier and most Japanese people assume that you will wish to remain there. Why would you want to be inside? You are not Japanese. Other foreigners endlessly play the gaijin card, happily reaping the benefits of being outside. But you are thinking as a Japanese person, even though you are a foreigner. You wish to belong more than you wish special treatment. It *is* unusual! It will take time but people will notice.
mikekchar 1 year ago
My first wife, who I lost in a car accident in 1991, was Japanese. I was married to her for 14 years. Now I am married to a Chinese woman. I speak both Japanese and Mandarin. I have recieved the smiles and the laughs in both countries when I speak their languages as a native. This response is not limited to Japan. It is in all of Asia. But, I do find the Chinese people much more accepting of me into their society than do the Japanese. I am sorry to say this but it is just a fact. Live and learn!
fuzzypaws17 1 year ago 2
what a humble and well manner guy.. GET AWAY from me =.=
TimeManInJail 1 year ago
@TimeManInJail You came here, man. :)
bobbyjudo 1 year ago 6
hey, sorry for being an a*s earlier. I was bored and read your below comments. I don't even think you should further pursue this topic. The end result really doesn't change anything, and who knows what Japan will be like 5 years from now. Have a good one!
destiny3005 1 year ago
@destiny3005 No worries. I agree with you. I spent a lot of time back and forth with joe, and I think in the end, you're right. I don't agree with him, but I don't feel the need to talk about it anymore.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
The compliments; being able to use the phone, counting, or anything else they compliment you for, are just their way of being overly polite. As I'm sure you're aware by now, Japanese people compliment each other in really weird, over-the-top ways also. They really don't mean it any more than you would if you complimented someone for being able to do something you've seen them do countless times. It's just the culture of Japanese fake politeness and small talk as a way to make conversation.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides I agree that most of the time they're trying to be polite and make conversation and they don't know what else to say. But I disagree with everything else. Young people are starting to compliment each other more, but, everywhere but on TV, Japanese people are known for NOT giving compliments. They don't have what they consider the 褒める文化 (praise culture) of the west. Receiving compliments is often more embarrassing than validating, and that's why you're expected to turn them down.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo: You're really reading way too much into my statement. My issue is that you seem rather put off by Japanese people complimenting you. Since they're just being polite, I reply humbly that "Oh no, I'm (not, don't, can't, etc.)". Even if the compliment is deserved I never just thank them.
BTW: No need to use kanji. It's conceited, like you're showing off your Japanese skills which is diametrically opposed to the whole concept of Japanese humility.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides Have you seen my video about humility? I said pretty much the same thing, so I totally agree with you there.
And you seem to have missed what I was saying again: It's not being complimented that bothers me. It's being complimented in a way that demonstrates that they see me as "other." You can argue with that all you want, but it's not just my opinion. It's a well documented, and pretty universally accepted aspect of Japanese culture.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo Yes I have, but you are not being humble by complaining about their politeness. That's what irritates me. You are the "other" an always will be. If you want to scrape away any "otherness" you should accept their compliments with humility by playing them down and not complain publicly. After all, would you rather they be overly polite or just plain rude? I'll take fake politeness, myself.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides Man, I really am taking this too seriously, but I'm really curious about one other thing:
If a Japanese person were to say "You're so good at chopsticks," you'd say "Oh no, I'm not. I can't use them well," or something like that?
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo: Yes, because we are all expected to say, "oh no, I'm not really very good." We can throw the occasional "arigato gozaimasu" in front but still play it down as humbly as possible, otherwise we are seen to be arrogant and full of ourselves.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides Wow, you are a real ass. It's seems that the whole point he was making went right over your head and then you decided what he was trying to say. You irritate me with your superiority complex and rudeness. Oh, and I won't comment back to any insults cuz I won't be pulled in to your bashing and know-it-all crap and I like this video for his honesty.
mjraven51400 6 months ago
@mjraven51400 Gee; commenting on a dialog from 9 months ago. Stalk much? You're obviously not Japanese, because because Japanese culture dictates not to pick fight with strangers and throw ad hominem insults around. My guess is that you're just another American who has no desire to learn anything about other cultures and is an embarrassment to your own.
joebenevides 6 months ago
@joebenevides I am an American citizen and am treated as such in the US even though I was born and grew up elsewhere. So once again, you think you know it all and make judgments, but you know nothing. You just proved my point. My native country welcomes foreigners as well and does not ostracize them. That should be a culture that you obviously need to learn about.
mjraven51400 6 months ago
@mjraven51400 Think you're spot on in your evaluation of Joe, but you had the right idea when you said you weren't gonna comment back and make this into an insult contest. Let it go. You'll only frustrate yourself.
bobbyjudo 6 months ago
@mjraven51400 Alrighty then! Whatever the hell you're babbling about . . .
joebenevides 6 months ago
@joebenevides But that's beside the point. A Japanese person would never compliment another adult Japanese person on their chopstick ability. Or their ability to use the phone. Or to count. I don't think you would ever compliment a member of your peer group on things that everyone in said group was expected to be able to do. It's not a matter of being complimented for silly things. It's a matter of being clearly labeled as outside of the peer group.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo: Of course they don't compliment each other on common things Japanese people should already know, but they do compliment each other on clothing, boy/girlfriends, hair style, and other similar things Westerners do, but unlike Westerners their compliments are less sincere and more small talk, getting-to-know-you conversation starters. You're right that this applies to the younger generations. Work peers, superiors in age, social status, etc., are not going to throw compliments around.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides I also don't see anything conceited about using a Japanese phrase in a discussion about Japan/Japanese. I used Japanese because that's the easiest way to refer to it. I included an English explanation because I don't have any way to tell your level of Japanese ability, and because I think people besides the two of us might read this. It wasn't my intention to show off.
While I don't agree with you, you do seem very well-versed and knowledgeable. Are you living here still?
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo Using kanji when communicating with someone in English is indeed showing off. I've asked some opinions about it and all have agreed with me. In the same way if you were communicating in kanji but translated some words into Latin alphabet. Unless you're trying to teach them how to read our alphabet, it's just trying to prove how "smart" you are. Not humble at all.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides It strikes me as odd that you keep saying "kanji," when I think you mean "Japanese." You'd have the same problem if I had written it entirely in hiragana, right?
I guess I don't see it the same way, because I have a lot of exchanges with people who speak both languages, and we mix and match without giving it any thought. Since I don't know, it may have come off as pretentious, so... sorry.
I'm really considering making a video about the other stuff we're talking about...
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo Yep, kanji or hiragana, or Greek if you were referring to Greek culture. Although I'd have far less difficulty with Greek. ;o)
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides When I worked in schools, we did a lesson about how foreigners feel about being complimented on chopsticks (not my lesson, it's in the Japan-made textbook.) As part of the lesson, we had the students compliment each other on chopstick use. We also had them imagine that they were in America, and we went around the class complimenting them on things like being able to use forks or tie their shoes. Every student agreed that it was offensive, and made them feel bad.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo Interesting to note what happens when you show them what fake politeness looks like from the other side. Good lesson plan, but it still doesn't bother me since they don't know any better. My experience with Japanese students in the U.S. gives me a different perspective that's hard to get from being in Japan. Here they soon feel free to speak their minds as they're liberated from "tatemae" culture. It's interesting what can be learned about Japan when they're free to speak their minds.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides I've crossed a personal line with the amount of time I've spent arguing on the internet, but I really feel like your position on this is oversimplified.
I also think that saying "Using chopsticks is nothing special," is an equally valid way to express humility and also true. Saying "Oh, no, I can't use chopsticks," perpetuates stereotypes about foreigners... and is just silly.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo Silly to us, but not to them. The best way to no longer feel like the "other" is to learn to think like them. It's taken me 30 years to mellow out about it. When I was your age it drove me nuts! The humility and harmony evolves with accepting what you cannot change.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides I respect your opinions; however, I disagree with using kanji to emphasize a cultural aspect as being conceited. I'm sure those who worked hard to learn kanji appreciate being able to read that word. As far as the politeness being fake, isn't customer service everywhere else much a live show? I don't smile at the cash register because I care. However, it still makes customers happy, doesn't it? It's probably better to be fake polite than impolite.
destiny3005 1 year ago
@destiny3005: To show off ones knowledge needlessly is not at all demonstrating the humility that is central to Japanese culture. Period. The Japanese say that the nail that sticks out gets hammered back down.
Regarding fake politeness, you made my point, which is that bobbyjudo needs to chill out and accept their compliments with humility since most would agree that a compliment, even when insincere, is much better than rudeness.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides I understand where you're coming from. I did read that you're in your late 30's? So our generation gap might cause an alternate view of "Japan" as a whole. Since you translated the proverb "出る杭は打たれる", I'm sure you've heard of this one: "大同小異". It means "Similarities outweigh the differences". We both agree on the importance of "politeness", but I must say that too much of it can sometimes become rude, in this case, pointing out someone's strength when it is so obvious, is it not.?
destiny3005 1 year ago
@destiny3005 Whoah. Bad move using kanji in a conversation with Joe. I too, am of the opinion that fake politeness is a form of rudeness... but seriously, let Joe be. I think he's older than late 30s, so he has tons of experience speaking with Japanese students in English and reading about what it means to "be Japanese." In a contest of who's most humble, he's made it clear that he would blow us away. Let's just end this here, cool?
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo Wow! Dripping with sarcasm. And yet you wonder why you're treated like the "other".
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides You misread my entire discussion from the start, Joe. If you watched my other videos (or even this one), it would be clear that I don't intend any value judgements about Japanese cultural standards. This video was about me talking about the frustrating aspects of being a foreigner in Japan, which will by definition always be "other." I don't expect it to change. I don't always like it. Nothing you say will make that less valid.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@joebenevides I also own my own flaws and am willing to look at things as more than black and white. In other videos, I admit hypocrisy when I say that I enjoy aspects of the special treatment as much as I loathe others.
The bottom line for me is this: You've never lived here and you don't speak Japanese, but you've set out to explain to me how wrong, conceited, and "non-Japanese" I am, while at the same time loudly proclaiming your own humility.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@joebenevides A truly humble person wouldn't have posted in the first place, let alone turned the conversation hostile because I used some Japanese you didn't know.
And yeah, the fact that I put this much thought into your comments makes it pretty obvious that I think too highly of myself and my opinions. I probably wouldn't be making public videos in the first place if I didn't. But I can admit that to myself.
I get the sense that you don't even realize how arrogant you come off.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@destiny3005 Yep; by Western standards too much insincere politeness is considered rude. The problem stems from us judging other cultures by our standards.
joebenevides 1 year ago
@joebenevides I'm not living there. Just 30 years of working with Japanese students and study. Going next May for a few weeks, but as a tourist. I don't plan on contacting those I know because I don't want them to feel obligated to take care of me when I'm there. I'd feel bad that they were disrupting their lives for me. It'll be a stealth trip. ;o)
joebenevides 1 year ago
You are a foreigner regardless but i know what you mean you want Japanese people to treat you as just another human, you don't want the fact that your from another country to get in the way of how they act towards you.
Absolstice 1 year ago
sorry bobbyjudo, you probably have been asked this already.... but i mean, wouldnt you be happy if that stuff happened? like I would think that living somewhere where even the easiest things that i can do would be looked upon as extremely impressive, would be good! walk up to some guy and say "hey wheres the nearest mall?" and have the guy go ":O omg that is so cool that you can say that!!" genuinely, I cant see anything wrong with that.... dont you ever like... feel special?
theophilis 1 year ago
I plan to move to Japan after I finish college and learn moderately good Japanese. Do you regret moving to Japan after college?
Nar2211 1 year ago
dude, i understand the point you're making, don't fret over comments. comments on Youtube or otherwise.
BeerDeLaRute33 1 year ago
How about if you're asian? I'm going to japan in the next two years for college...
ahvat 1 year ago
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destiny3005 1 year ago
@destiny3005 Are you saying that's true for you? I think Japan categorizes ALL foreigners. When you come to Japan you will be seen as an English speaking white person. And you'll get all the stereotypes that come with that.
I did a job a few weeks ago with a Ukranian woman who didn't speak a word of English. And yet, all of the Japanese people around us kept trying to talk to her in English. At the end of the day, she was almost in tears. Who you ARE won't matter, you'll just BE the category.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
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destiny3005 1 year ago
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destiny3005 1 year ago
i definitely hear where you are coming from. My Dad told me about this western lady who has lived most of her life in Japan and is even a traditional tea ceremony teacher in her home town. She's just as "Japanese" as the Japanese people, and yet, because of her looks, whenever she goes out she's treated like a foreigner who doesn't understand Japanese or the culture...
yoshimaru12 1 year ago
@yoshimaru12 I definitely hear where you're coming from too. Post-five-times town, if I'm not mistaken ;)
But yeah, it's all about looks. I feel worse for people from other asian countries or foreigners of japanese descent who get blamed for NOT being proficient enough in Japanese language or culture.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i definitely understand where you're coming from. even my better friends here in japan are always surprised if i know some slang or if i use a word that most "gaijin" don't know even when they know that i am, in fact, japanese.
there's this lady that my dad told me about that is a westerner who lived most of her life in japan. she's teaches the traditional japanese tea ceremony in her town. but no matter what, she's always treated like she can't speak the language and...well...a just "visitor"
yoshimaru12 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i definitely understand where you're coming from. even my better friends here in japan are always surprised if i know some slang or if i use a word that most "gaijin" don't know even when they know that i am, in fact, japanese.
there's this lady that my dad told me about that is a westerner who lived most of her life in japan. she's teaches the traditional japanese tea ceremony in her town. but no matter what, she's always treated like she can't speak the language and...well...a just "visitor"
yoshimaru12 1 year ago
i definitely understand where you're coming from. even my better friends here in japan are always surprised if i know some slang or if i use a word that most "gaijin" don't know even when they know that i am, in fact, japanese.
there's this lady that my dad told me about that is a westerner who lived most of her life in japan. she's teaches the traditional japanese tea ceremony in her town. but no matter what, she's always treated like she can't speak the language and...well...a just "visitor"
yoshimaru12 1 year ago
i definitely understand where you're coming from. even my better friends here in japan are always surprised if i know some slang or if i use a word that most "gaijin" don't know even when they know that i am, in fact, japanese.
there's this lady that my dad told me about that is a westerner who lived most of her life in japan. she's teaches the traditional japanese tea ceremony in her town. but no matter what, she's always treated like she can't speak the language and...well...a just "visitor"
yoshimaru12 1 year ago
boo ya multiculturalism
Cleavemyer 1 year ago
Hi, I didn't read all the comments below. But I do want to ask you, because I am learning Japanese want to go to Japan, why do natives treat foreigners differently if they're skilled in the language. I do understand the group aspect, but I'm trying to look deeper into it. Do you think they're ashamed of their own skills and afraid of change, that being the foreigner? Because you're a guy, I think it would be easier for you to adjust. What is your take on it?
destiny3005 1 year ago
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destiny3005 1 year ago
haha, looks like you were drunk & was trying to make a point
i12k 1 year ago
i don't mind not getting accepted instantly, i joke around all the time & not take things too seriously ,
i12k 1 year ago
@i12k instantly? Have you ever lived in a foreign country?
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
Do you have to kno to speak japanese to live in japan?
TheKoombesy 1 year ago
why did you go there? did you move there with ur family? or did u just go there by ur slef? or did you go there just 2 pick up women.well u will always b a Foreigner when I vist anoter country I am looked @ as a Foreigner and always will b thats how it is
HarPlayer 1 year ago
@HarPlayer I came by myself after college to work and to see what it was like. I'm not talking about being seen as a foreigner when I walk up and down the streets of somewhere I'm visiting. I'm talking about wanting to feel like I fit in with people that I've lived with and worked with for years.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
ur bigger in the pants.. intimidating.
localbroadcast 1 year ago
Im Filipino but i dont look like the standard Filipino so im used to people thinking Im a foreigner..i grew up in a English speaking household so i have an accent that people think was generated by living overseas.
Just be cool with the gaijin status you have buddie, you know that will always see you as different and the issue will never leave even if you have a family there you will always be the white guy with a Japanese wife. Show them you are a contributing member of society.
ojii111 1 year ago
No worries man, I get treated the same exact way even here in Germany.
Germans always are surprised at how I speak German so fluently, and I always need to tell them that I am actually a German, who just has been studying in the USA. They keep doing it to the point where it is getting annoying, and see me as you have described, foreigner first - human second, partly because I am of asian descent, half at that.
In summary and comparison, USA has been best as accepting me. But still no worries.
KokoroBeach 1 year ago
that SUCKSSSSSSS
Origini6 1 year ago
From your point of you, you want them to see you as a regular person just like them. I could see how you think that, in America there are a lot of races, hell almost every race lives in this country. If you saw a Chinese person walking into a store you probably wouldnt be surprised. What if this was the case where Chinese people in your neighborhood usually dont speak English. Then a Chinese person comes out of no where talking with a Eng. U'd be surprised Japanese people dont do it on purpose.
freedfighter96 1 year ago
Go, Bobby, GO! You can do it. Best of luck.
iJrockable 1 year ago
Wow! I didn't thought that they were a lot foreigners living in Japan and people wanting to move there. Anyway this is the first time I've seen your videos, thanks to that one video of Ciela and you being in it. :)
Cinlouxx 1 year ago
Oh, I forgot to tell you that I really do think your Japanese is excellent!
Funky211 1 year ago
I think your Japanese friends give you a compliment because they themselves feel good with a compliment even if they know it's just a flattering word, and they assume you feel the same way. I mean, if they think you are different from them and feel the different way, they won't give you any compliments at all. So, this proves that even if you want to be treated like ordinary Japanese, your way of thinking or feeling itself is different from them, don't you think?
Funky211 1 year ago
why are always the bloggerrs in japan always be alone? no friends allways alone in the streets, in schools, bars, restaurants... I guess the depression rate are very high in japan when it comes to foreigners, comments please about this
cuzcatlanochenta 1 year ago
@cuzcatlanochenta No, japan can be really amazing. To me, there is nothing bad about living in japan as a black guy. Almost like 0% racism. Not much violence. Some people hate japan, I do see why. They're depressed, but that's because they're not living life. They're not out making friends, and traveling and having a great time. Some people cant handle living in a new country, with many different things. So they just automatically feel sad. But people that i know have amazing lives in japan :D
GeeKuroKami 1 year ago
you are really handsome :D
eva0208 1 year ago
This guy's good-looking. He speaks so fluent and soft. Sorry, but I'm a guy and don't swing that way too. Just looking-up to you.
Inedrief 1 year ago
what do you do in japan?
Neku2 1 year ago
@Neku2 I teach and I wait tables. And I work on getting my cooking famous...
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo no Judo?
Judokkaa 1 year ago
you will be just fine *hugs*
Avinca 1 year ago
@Avinca *gets hugged*
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
Bobby, I'm not sure if anyone's made this connection; the scenario that you're describing sounds generally like the way I feel as a gay in America. Granted, I don't get discriminated against, as long as I don't make it clear that I am gay. Nonetheless, it's a tad disconcerting to know that some people are kind to me because I'm acting like something I'm not—when I do play the straight, male character.
-Reymon
ReyFortea 1 year ago
@ReyFortea I understand the basic feelings of being left out, or having people not see/accept the real you... but other than that it seems like kind of a stretch.
I'm not pretending that I'm a foreigner, or presenting myself in a way that they can't tell I'm a foreigner. And I'm willing to bet that the discrimination that gay people face in America is a lot harder to deal with than my stupid complaints.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
@bobbyjudo Ah, I see.
I'm not sure as to the differences in levels of discrimination, as I am not in Japan. However, I feel that the level of discrimination here fluctuates tumultuously, from area to area and person to person.
Thank you for your response, and I hope your blues have bloomed into colors more brilliant and uplifting. :)
With kind regards,
Reymon
ReyFortea 1 year ago
Thanks, Rey. This week is a good week.
bobbyjudo 1 year ago
When I lived in Japan I always felt that the 'in-group' vs. 'out-group' dichotomy was omnipresent and stifling. A foreigner attempting to make a life for themself in Japan must have a thick skin to survive. Like you I was pretty young when I lived in Japan and I struggled tremendously. Now that I am older I feel like I could be able to handle it better but I don't think I would ever feel completely at ease with myself as I do in my home country. LIving in Japan taught me a lot about myself...
ncflagman 1 year ago
ya growing up in a Canadian city it the locals who stand out, I used to live in Winnipeg one of the most diverse city in country, so ya people acting weird around foreigners is something alien to me.
whydid666 1 year ago