The 'Strange Situation' procedure and Separation Anxiety - Fathers' Rights

[dionneldexr]

(Wow, 1 Of The MOST UndeRated Clip ON YouTube :D )

[trocolele]

This is such an outmoded point, that has become a non-issue. In 2010, caregivers are either male or female; life has overtaken theory and everybody should be able to understand the context in which things are said. The relation betwwn the strange situation and the characteristics of adult relationships is NOT a mechanical, simplistic equivalence. Theory of attachment is useful ro understand and think about development; it is not a formula with static results!

[TheKorban]

Thank you!

I have to study Bowlby for Pschology.

Being a Father of 3, I agree that a Father can be just as important as a Mother,I have a stable family, I work and my wife stays at home, YET the kids have a stronger attachment to myself, I believe it's because I spent more quality time with them when I'm home whilst my wife is there she's busy in the home, and not able to provide the emotional needs that comes from play and praise as much.

[jamesdumesnil]

You are missing the point entirely. Bowlby and Ainsworth always understood that the primary caregiver can be father, grandmother or adoptive parent. Fathers do not need to be defended. You make claims with absolutely no research to back it up. You don't expect to be taken seriously do you. Do more research. Read more. or keep it to yourself

[evenToddlers]

jamesdumesnil,

Constructive comments are always welcome. However if you watch the video Bowlby's 'Monotropy' - A Child's Tie to His Mother - Fathers' Rights you will see that Bowlby never acknowledged the importance of fathers, even in later life. Unfortunately this view still pervades many Children Services in the UK.

If you would like to find out more about the impact of Bowlby's ideas I would also recommend watching Professor Sir Michael Rutter in the video 'Maternal Deprivation'.

[TheKorban]

even toddlers makes the point I intended as far as I know Bowlby never acknowledged fathers or anyone other than the Mother from which stems the law in which Mother gets the child after a break up of the marriage

I'm saying that's unfair as kids can bond greater with the father at times.

I think Bowlby had some of his writtings edited(?) to make out he meant any parent/gaurdian.

And no I don't expect to be taken seriously

Just sharing thoughts with the author of the video.

[shahidmasoodkhan]

@TheKorban

I note your comments with great regard and respect.

On going through your comments, some questions arise:

Was Bowlby born without a father?

Or, the mother never knew the name of Bowlby's father?

Or, she decided not to divulge it?

Was she herself a lunatic taken for a ride, or was he convicted of incest?

Tell us, Bowlby!

Let's agree with Bowlby. KILL all men, as sperm banks can do it, as they do for all cows, and many celebs too, maybe including Bowlby's mom.

Ladies WON'T!

[Spathever]

But I do want to point out that the beginning and the end still seem to have a large gap between them and the middle part. The video somehow ends very abruptly and it's a bit hard to discern how the cross-cultural evidence you pointed out has any real significance about the importance of mothers vs. fathers.

I agree that there is no biological disposition to form closer bonds with either of the sexes. The biological differences between women men are insignificant compared with cultural diff.

[Spathever]

As a psychology student I find this a great clip, but it lacks cohesion. I had completely forgotten about the fathers in the middle part of the video. Also, you're demanding too much from the attachment theory. As you probably know, there is no one all-explaining factor and to imply the uselessness of attachment theory is just plain false testimony. It has a profound significance inside our own culture.

[Spathever]

Of course the cultural context needs to be taken into consideration but to imply that there is no value in it, is a bit too much.

Your video is very good, but the middle part doesn't back up your conclusion in any way, it's just additional information that bears no significance to your conclusion. But it is true, that there is no reason why fathers should be worse parents than mothers.

[evenToddlers]

PART ONE

Spathever,

Thank you for these comments.

As a student of Psychology I am guessing you have a number of preconceived ideas based on Bowlby's work.

For example, he originally claimed a biological basis to the Attachment theory but as the video clip makes clear this may vary across cultures.

Kingsley Miller

[evenToddlers]

PART TWO

Spathever,

As far as the Strange Situation procedure is concerned which is used to justify his work, it is not 'reliable' and inconsistent results are often explained away in terms

of the child's 'temperament'. As a parent I am certain I would not like my relationship to be 'tested' in this way.

Kingsley Miller

[evenToddlers]

PART THREE

The Attachment theory is not the same as Bowlby's ideas and I hope this clip goes a little way towards correcting this impression. It has much to offer the student of

Psychology but Bowlby's ideas often proved misconceived and ill founded.

I am grateful for these comments.

Kingsley Miller

[Spathever]

I definitely agree that the way attachment is shown and how it relates to future success is varies in different cultural settings. However, it is important to point out that attachment is biological. Babies grow fond of persons who take close care of them. How that attachment manifests is of course dependent on the quality of the caretaker, the number of them and the child.

Attachment is "unreliable" because it changes over time and because the test-retest ratio is about .70.

[Spathever]

But it does have some validity as is shown in countless of studies. To claim otherwise wouldn't be right. It certainly has its limits, though.

[evenToddlers]

PART FOUR

Spathever,

I am afraid Attachment is not biological. This was the view originally purported by Bowlby but it is wrong.

Once again I must assume you have studied the Bowlby theory of attachment. There are many who do not know any other.

Professor Sir Michael Rutter wrote 'Maternal Deprivation Reassessed in which he tried to dis-spell some of Bowlby's ideas. I am trying to do the same.

Unfortunately his ideas still prevail.

Once again, thank you,

Kingsley Miller

[Spathever]

I am not speaking of Attachment theory but the phenomenon of an infant getting close to its caretaker. There are number of biological dispositions that lead us to form relationships with our caretakers, facial and voice recognition, seeking of nurture (Harlow's experiments), etc. Those are all biological disposition that lead us to form close relationships with our caretaker. Attachment doesn't form really before the second half of first year, when the cognitive side of the child isn't developed

[Spathever]

There is the phenomenon attachment and theories of attachment. Kinda like the relationship of evolution and evolutionary theory. Evolution is a fact just like attachment and there are theories that try to explain that phenomenon.

[evenToddlers]

PART FIVE

Spathever,

I feel we have come full circle in these comments. Your initial observation was that the video clip lacked cohesion. In fact it was seeking to make the points you have now raised that the Strange Situation procedure and Separation Anxiety have little or nothing to do with Bowlby's original Attachment theory. I feel your comments have reinforced my belief that you were not looking at the video from an objective starting point (Please see my next comment).

Kingsley Miller

[evenToddlers]

PART SIX

Spathever,

Of course cognitive development begins as soon as we are born (or before). I was in the process of making a video clip on alternative views of attachment ie behaviorist, cognitive, ethological and I wondered if you would allow me to e-mail a copy of the script beforehand so that you can make any criticisms?

Kingsley Miller kip

[Spathever]

I don't really have any real criticisms than about the forceful rejection of Bowlby's theory and the apparrent lack of cohesion in the film. I listened to this again and I now understand the point you made about Bowlby's theory about maternal care and that this film was basically a response to that theory. I'm not a native so these things sometimes get confused.

[evenToddlers]

PART SEVEN

Spathever,

You have argued your points extremely well!

You could be pedantic and say that we are not back to the start at all, as you clearly realise, but instead you have looked at the original source material again, hopefully in a fresh light, and although you may not agree with it, at least you are prepared to give me the benefit of the doubt.

Kingsley Miller

[evenToddlers]

BBC International Version Asia/Pacific

30 January 2008

Australia apology to Aborigines

The Australian government has announced it will issue its first formal apology to Aboriginal people when parliament resumes next month.

Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin said the apology would be the first item of business when the new legislature convened on 13 February.

It is aimed at the "Stolen Generations" - Aboriginal children taken from their parents to be raised by white families.

[kingmycle]

very educational... detailed... helped me a lot in my presentation...

[evenToddlers]

kingmycle,

Thank you for this kind comment.

It is very rewarding to know this video clip has been useful.

Kingsly Miller

[evenToddlers]

News Story

Australian government to issue formal apology to Aborigines - Wednesday, 30 Jan 2008

While former prime minister John Howard refused to apologise to the families of Aboriginal children taken from their parents under state and state federal laws, arguing that his administration should not be held culpable for previous regimes, newly installed prime minister Kevin Rudd has pledged to push for a public apology.

[evenToddlers]

Dear All,

If you have found this topic interesting please also see in this series,

'Child Psychology in Family Proceedings'

and

'Precedents' in Family Law

These video clips try to show how Case Law in UK family courts is based on Bowlby's flawed theory of 'Maternal Deprivation'.

Many thanks,

Kingsley Miller