I think porn is clearly delusional. A lot of it seems to be woman enjoying various degrees of coercion. But I agree with the rulings in this video, its not good when the state takes action about it.
I think it is ridiculous that pornography is legal but prostitution isn't.
Pornography: A pays B to have sex with C and films it in order to distribute it towards D, E, F, G... etc... Prostitution: A simply pays B to have sex with A.
Assuming either one is "bad" or "wrong", why is prostitution considered worse to the extent that it is illegal while pornography, which operates under the exact same principle, and even extends it to envolve more people is not?
2. Pornography does not lead to any perversion that one hasn't previously consider, there is no reason to because each of us have our own sense of moral. My own example, i have seen voluntarily drawn child pornography (loli hentai), i didn't like it, i found it to much for me and have never seen it again.
2a. In freudian psychology, repression is a fundamental part of the theory, the more repressed a person is more likely he is to have a neurosis.....
@sesaruoosama cont. pornography have a advantage that it provides safe and personal let out to sexual urges, even from those that are not very well socially seen. The sexual satisfaction can also prevent the search of sexual gratification, as is not the same 3 months of abstinence to 3 days of abstinence.
3. i doubt it. i have debate this even to fellow psychology majors and they still insist that their religion is right. I guess that is what happen when someone have grew thinking that.
2. I don't view it as causing harm that can be recognized in any sense. Harming society isn't something that can really be legislated because it's the change of the majority and as long as that doesn't trample on established 'rights' there's no justification to steer it towards a specific goal of a particular individual.
3. Nothing, I'm not even sure there is anything that could be done, especially considering technology today. Keep minors out, but after that, it's a free country.
For me when I viewed pornography, it wasn't so much a destruction of my idea of real relationships- but rather porn was like a video game. It wasn't real and it was fun. I think this is how many males view it. They don't objectify the women in their lives through pornographic ideals, but rather they look at fantasy. In my opinion, its no different from reading Harry Potter and wishing to be a wizard. Its not possible, nor do people think it is; its just fun to pretend.
@creepyoldman2 I agree. It's just fantasy. And just like most people who watch porn, I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Furthermore, if we illegalie porn, I'm afrraid it will be about as detrimental to society as making prostitution illegal, alcohol prohibition in the '30's, and the current War on Drugs. In other words, it will create more problems than it will resolve.
Claiming that all pornography is disrespectful of women and depicts them in a submissive position? These guys are just ignorant. Do they think that there is no such thing as gay porn? Even leaving that aside, their claim is still flat out false.
Anyway, the onus is on those who would ban pornography to demonstrate its deleterious effects. My main objection to the court findings is that they were too hasty in accepting the premise of the pro-ban argument even if they ultimately rejected it.
I have long held the belief that pornography objectifies the person that is being viewed but recently I have been inclined to change my mind. I have been wondering if it objectifies people more than if they provide any other kind of service. I think it has to do with the mindset of the participants.
Do people not realize that banning the sexual fetishism of the human body will lead humans to fetishize other things (as in things that human beings can't reproduce with)?
The church, if it accomplishes its mission of banning pornography (which won't happen ever, but...) they'll actually *create* the very problem they're trying to solve.
Think about it - did banning priests from having sex with women stop them from having sex?
@mefondlevagina That's what I was thinking. How does a group that is so fully immersed in a fantasy world get off by condemning fantasies? Irony is the best!
I think Youtube changed its layout just to screw with your videos... Link to the right.
On virtual child pornography. The 2003 PROTECT act signed in by Bush made that illegal again. Along with other ridiculous things this law did, drawing, or possessing a sexually explicit drawing of someone who appears to be under 18 is illegal. And there have been people convicted of having such drawings. Most of which are Anime in nature. How you can tell the age of a Japanese cartoon character is beyond me.
@TheWhiteRabbit1990 "I think Youtube changed its layout just to screw with your videos... Link to the right."
No doubt that entire thing is a conspiracy against me. I'm hip to what these YouTube bastards are up to. ;-)
As for the PROTECT Act, it's an attempt to geet around Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition and goes to illegal misrepresentations regarding virtual child pornography (i.e., claiming that it is actual child pornography). In United States v. Williams, the 2008 case in...
(con't) @TheWhiteRabbit1990 ...which the Supreme Court upheld the PROTECT Act, Justice Scalia, writing for the 7-justice majority, said, "Simulated child pornography will be as available as ever, so long as it is offered and sought as such, and not as real child pornography."
Taking Creationist thought into account and their adamant hold on their beliefs despite a ton of evidence in all fields of science in favor of Evolution, Abiogenesis, Geology Etc.
I do believe that even if there was a mountain of scientific evidence proving Porn to be a good thing and quiet healthy with no ill effects. Most people against Pornography, would still hold onto their point of view. People can be extremely stubborn that way.
What? pornography perpetuates subordination? Why? Because it depicts sex? By that logic, sex perpetuates subordination, and should therefore be banned. Maybe then the catholic church would be happy.
I think that porn is not a problem. Its just that a lot of people regard sex as an elephant in the living room, and the stylized, explicit depiction in porn is more than they want to deal with.
So many people willing to offer opinions, so few willing to back it up with facts.
Facts:
In countries where pornographic is easily accessible (Norway, Denmark, japan...) Violent crime against women is lower than in countries (u.s. middle eastern countries) where it is harder to obtain or citizens are socially shunned for obtaining it.
2) People are problematic; the whole gun control issue, blah blah
3) Instead of looking for young men who haven't seen porn, they should be looking for young men who have a sex education; myself, I poured over books on sexual education throughout my teen years (much to the detriment of my sex LIFE), even though I already had a collection of skin mags when I was nine.
I hold women in very high regard and view porn on nearly a daily basis. I have been looking at some type of porn since about the age of seven. I see women as complete equals in every way. I care more about a woman's personality than her physicality but I also have a very healthy sexual appetite. I am not willing to sleep around so, I do so only in fantasy. Porn satisfies that need and does not make it stronger for me.
i think porn becomes harmful when people start to become addicted and ignore real relationships in favor of porn.
besides that i thnk its harmless. i watch porn with my girlfriend and its been in our favor so far. porns something that people "masturbate to with one hand and push away in disgust with the other."
Hey Prof. I just discovered your videos and am enjoying them. Keep it up!
I have a question for you. I don't know your expertise, but have seen you talk a lot about law. Do you think that the decision in American Booksellers Association v. Hudnut could be cited as a way to end the FCC's jurisdiction over censoring over the air TV and radio?
Thanks for the great vids. I think I'm going to enjoy watching the rest of your uploads.
I can't begin to speak for everyone, for as far as i know porn affects everyone differently. However, i can say unequivocally that porn does not harm and may even help my intimate relationship. There is a considerable inequality in the sex drives of me and my partner, and viewing porn sometimes prevents my sexual frustration from mounting. I also know that my partner has viewed it periodically. But we seem to think of each other as on a completely other plane than those we are viewing.
I find the assertion that porn is degrading to women to be quite obviously ridiculous. Certainly SOME porn is degrading to women, (And/Or men) but saying that since a small percentage of porn is degrading, all porn is degrading is wrong to the point of sounding like a bad joke. Indeed, not all porn even INVOLVES women.
I also watched Chomsky's video, and my opinion of him instantly dropped from "Intelligent individual" to (I can't phrase this delicately in the characters I have left) "Moron".
Hey, Prof. Pornography is much like the "nuclear genie". Even if you wanted to, you can't stuff it back into the bottle. I offer no solution. I do feel, however, that porn's pervasive nature leaves simple innocence vulnerable, primarily with respect to children. Even with content controls, how do we keep it from children and is it important enough to us as a society to make a concerted effort to delay the onset of maturity in order to maintain innocence if for only a little longer?
Thanks for the comment. I think that in the main the efforts to keep children from having easy access to pornography are successful. Of course, the Internet presents some new problems -- or new twists on old problems -- but it doesn't seem that they're beyond dealing with well short of banning pornography.
The issue of children having access to much of anything is more or less the same issue it has always been to me, before and after the internet... parents have allowed themselves to think of schools as being the things that raise their children and have become lazy in exercising their responsibilities to monitor and shape their children's experiences... if kids are getting ahold of porn it is because of what individual families are or aren't doing...
@TV843 I will refrain from going into large detail on such an old post, but one question: What is so good about 'innocence' that one would want to "delay the onset of maturity"? I would think more maturity is always better.
@TheOJDrinker If we're to broadly accept that maturity for maturity's sake is a good, we might as well abolish child labor laws & consign children to the workforce, eliminate the drinking age & children should be obligated to enlist as soldiers in the military. Of course, I personally don't believe there's benefit in any of these things, but essentially what I'm describing is forced maturity. How would these things be good for a child? In what way does porn benefit a child's development?
@TheOJDrinker As a child, I grew up in a very hostile environment. I can tell you I wish I could've been a kid longer, daydreamed more, had more fun. I wish I could have delayed some of the responsibilities that were imposed upon me. I wish I hadn't experienced the verbal and mental violence I endured. I can see your point if you believe that maturity can be properly managed & cultivated by responsible roll models, but that might be a bit much to ask for in this world.
Penn and Teller did an episode of Bullshit! where they pointed out that two major US government studies on pornography revealed there is NO evidence that it is harmful to society in any way.
I think women were far more surpressed back when showing an ankle was considered obscene! Probaly there is an inverse relationship between female surpression and male viewing of pornography. An outlet for the "shadow" perhaps? Just a thought.
porography is a form of art. it tends to reflect the way our society works. if there are subjugated woman in pornographic productions, it means that the society already does that. pornography do not put woman in lower standards just because it thinks its fun, but because this is the general though already. the anti-pornography guys commited an error in their argument, cause they change the cause-effect order.
Yes and our society is sick and need to be reformed!!
And yes pornmakers think its fun to have a girl fucked by 15 guys and be covered in semen. pornmakers like to see girls being fucked by 3 gays simultaniosly,they liek to see girls raped,sexually harrased, sexualy abused,they like to see girls gag and girls being spanked,girls eating shit, girls that submit,girls being dominated. POrnmakers simply Locve to completely degrade and dehumanize WOMEN!!
You do realize most of the fetishes you're outlining in the above pre-date the committing of them to moving picture?
I'm also not sure the market is dominated the "rough stuff" you're mentioning. Much of that is niche, especially the more "transgressive" stuff (simulated rape, scat, etc.)
I'm curious as to your basis for judging society as "sick" in this regard? I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm curious as to what you think "normal" would be and why.
I think that pornography is a Failure of an Economical system that allows everything as long as there is a profit interest!! Stuff that dehumanizes and degrades ppl should not be OK,no matter what the profit is!
My problem is that I have a hard time being outraged with reality, at least in complete divorce from underlying causes.
Railing on "porn", IMHO. is much like railing on the thievery and criminality of impoverished communities, with little consciousness of why said situations exists.
I believe in "getting to the roots" ("radicalism.")
Where pornography is "problematic", is precisely where capitalism is problematic. Porn is also largely a consequence of male frustration wedded to opportunity.
I do hope you are being sarcastic. If not though, I suppose I would technically have to agree, but only because it is hard to film anything in an anarchy. Also, you seem to think that there is no such thing as free amateur porn... something that I assure you exists in spades.
If pornography is degrading for women so it is for men. men are ALSO involved. what i do find dangerous about pornography is that it can lead to pedophilia
not that it leads to pedophilia bu CAN lead to it. a lot of times porn actresses are dressed in school girl uniforms and many other costumes to make them look really young. it can lead to men fantasizing under age girls or boys.
This is ridiculous. The same argument holds that people who play video games like GTA are going to become car thieves or that people who read Kafka are going to become roaches.
That a person seeks entertainment which strokes an unrealizable fantasy seems far more likely an explanation than the idea that people are actively seeking to have deviant behavior implanted into their psyche. I would suggest that we are far safer giving our desires a virtual outlet vs. suppressing them completely.
then why is it that so many men have fantasies involving very young girls? i'm NOT pro the suppression of pornography because that would make matters worst. kind of like when alcohol was prohibited but a lot of the extremes in porn i personally don't condone.
"then why is it that so many men have fantasies involving very young girls?"
Partly because they're biologically programed to find youth attractive, partly because of the fantasy both men and women have about returning to their own youth and the innocence of their first love. These are deep psychological issues, and passing them off as the product of an industry is both short sighted and naive. Besides, one person's extreme is another's bread and butter... especially in fiction and fantasy.
yeah i know that men find women who can reproduce more more attractive biologically but there are some who are attracted to girls who are not even old enough to reproduce...i'm so glad i'm lesbian since men are more depraved then women are...but i respect your opinion even though i don't share it...so long.
"but there are some who are attracted to girls who are not even old enough to reproduce"
Your point? There are also "some" who find cabbage sexually attractive. In both cases we are talking about statistically small numbers, and in both cases a fantasy involving full grown women dressed up as school girls or cabbages is not the same thing as people who can't get off ANY OTHER WAY. As for men being more depraved than women... you wish. That fantasy is just as bad as those of any man. Bigot.
my point is that men are not only attracted to young girls for any biological purpose. call me bigot but almost all if not all rape are committed by men. most sexual assault in all ways are committed by men. and the statistics show this. also men watch more porn...so long
Then I guess since some more women than men marry for money, talk about their sexuality as a weapon and don't bother going into fields like science and math, they're all greedy, manipulative and stupid, huh? Just because one deviance is outward and one inward, doesn't mean they aren't equally sick.
So yes, you are a bigot, it is obvious and blatant and no less stupid than being a skinhead or KKK. And I would surely rather be an open minded man than a sexist woman any day.
because if not for money what else are men good for? you sound sexist too...and stop being angry at me because men are more sick than women are...the reason more women marry for money is because men are fine dating a woman who could be their daughter knowing that that woman is only for his money...thanks you just gave me a great idea
Men are programmed by the environment they grow up in. Just look at these movies Hollywood churns out - the opening scene is always an ass and a titty shot of a woman.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I was in no way expressing my own opinion on the matter. Those generalizations about women were purely an example of your own logic applied in reverse. It is really quite sad to see you assume everyone shares your own shallow standards.
Yeah, too bad it isn't a fact. It is your opinions; a rather shallow opinion based on the classic logical fallacy of all bigots.
Some members of A seem to be X therefore all members of A are unavoidably X.
It is almost universally false, including this case. And your unwavering embrace of this particular depravity demonstrates it perfectly. And like most prejudice people, you are largely incapable of seeing it...at least you serve as a good example to others that women are not all roses.
I appreciate that you are very hung up on one or two kinds of behavior, but I have already told you in a rainbow of ways that "depravity" comes in many flavors and that they are, over all, spread evenly... so just as with most other human traits, men and women both have their own trends and tendencies, but one only outshine the other in the eyes of the prejudiced.
I guess that's entirely dependent upon one's point of view. For instance, I'd expect a woman to say that, but not a man. Just as I'd expect to hear a male questioning the general intelligence of women, but not a woman.
The real truth, is that much of the opposition I find to pornography, starts really sounding like a case of women being grossed out by some male fantasies. Funny thing is, males too can find women quite terrifying in their own ways.
actually it has been proven that men are not more intelligent than women and that men are indeed more prone to be pedophiles, rapists and pretty much depraved.
Again, try for a moment to "imagine" another perspective. What I said previously had nothing to do with empirical observation, but perception and self interest.
For instance, if one were really interested in the "science" of it all, it would be impossible to avoid the issue of power relationships between human beings. Much that we find fearful and objectionable about others, is an exercise of "ability." And similarly, much "evil" doesn't occur precisely for a lack of ability.
Well, selection has created a marked discrepancy between male and female morphology in human beings, wrt. to general physical strength and durability to assault. It's been theorized this was a consequence of the first division of labor amongst human hunger-gatherers; males as hunters and somewhat expendable risk takers, with females as gatherers minding children in less dangerous environments. A much better survival strategy than everyone going along on dangerous hunts, etc
Well, simply put - males generally come into this world with a marked "power" advantage over females. And in environments of privation, that's going to lead to the brutalization of males, and in turn, that will spill over onto women.
IOW. a great deal of what men "do" or can "get away with" is purely a species of ability.
I don't know about you, but I've never considered persons who are "virtuous" in deed for simply having a lack of opportunity to be really "superior" to anyone.
You cant really say that porn is just a fantazy...not when you demand to ejaculate on your girls face or betwwen breasts,not when you want to fuck her on the asshole,not when you ask her to film the sex! All these are infuences from the pornindustry, so pornography apparently leaks out into everyday life and isnt just a fanatsy anymore!!
People ALREADY fantasize about partners who are below the age of majority, or age of consent even, amongst other things. I really think pornography has about as much of a chance of making a man a pedophile as it does making a straight person gay (or vice versa.)
You do have a point. It's just that the pro-raunch crowd on here thinks pornography is the most wonderfully wonderful thing they have ever seen. These are real dangers that we even went over in Psychology back in college. It should be illegal to have adult females portrayed as fuckable underage girls. This occurs in regular movies (not porn) too.
I guess I just don't share your enthusiasm for authority.
People believing they know what's best for others is ordinary. Believing they can form some kind of vanguard or elite who should be deputized to police others is something I cannot abide.
The Federal Government of Australia wants to block internet access to many things to "protect the children" and of course certain forms of pornography are included.
A recent poll showed that 96% of Australians are against this.
Civil authorities should prevent the production, writing and distribution of religious materials, the obvious reason being that it immerses all who are involved with it, in the illusion of a fantasy world.
And I would go further. Civil authorities should isolate and medicate any consumer of religious ideas, as they are exposed to schizophrenic hallucinations and behaviour, and can be dangerous both to themselves and others.
The porn demeaning women thing kinda immediately brought to mind the same line of reasoning that Muslims use with the hijab argument. Saying that women will be treated worse for being shown as sexual beings (just as the men who are masturbating to them are) seems asinine.
On a lolzier note: The catholic church talking about engaging in fantasy? Irony to the max.
Well if women want to put their lives at risk and be puppeted by a male-dominated industry - I'd say that's pretty screwed up. Chinese women put their health at risk by foot-binding. Then there were the women who damaged themselves with corsets. The problem isn't with being "sexual". It's when women and little girls are "hypersexualized". We are more than sexual beings. The entire sex industry indoctrinates people with the belief otherwise.......
Furthermore, it's when women are told that there is only one way to be sexy - which the sex industry has managed to indoctrinate people with. This is why little girls grow up thinking they have to vomit their food, put themselves at risk for skin cancer through tanning, and put their lives at risk through unnecessary cosmetic surgeries. Luckily, there are those of us who managed to think for ourselves - and we are frequently criticized by the sheeple for being "anti-sex".
And still further, porn stars are who younger women and men often look to - to teach them how to have sex. So they learn to imitate an imitation - to fake lust. I guess men really shouldn't get angry when women fake orgasms, considering they are learning from the same example, lol. If men want women to really have an orgasm, they need to know they can't just sit back and expect her to scream with pleasure when they aren't doing anything to pleasure her - as is often shown in porn.
you really are an idiot. Unless you have evidence for your position. Peer reviewed empirical evidence, then shut up. You assert things that are patently not true the use those assertions to back up your absurd claims. Stop it. Everyone here who is scientifically literate is laughing at your ignorance.
evesrib, some people can actually tell the difference between reality and nonsense (Like knowing what's on TV/Porn isn't always real). Unfortunately you are clearly not one of these people.
You're making lots of very broad generalizations of people, and are somehow drawing the connection that if you like watching sex that you like women being crippled, little girls vomiting, and stupid adolesecents copying porn stars.
I love the videos; but it should be important to note that even though Noam Chomsky doesn't personally support pornography, he doesn't think it should be prohibited by the government.
Porn can be a great learning tool. I think the people that have a problem with porn probably have a problem with sex also. You know who you are. Don't think for a minute there isn't some porn that grosses me out, there is. But to ban it would be wrong. If you don't care for it, don't watch. Why is it the males are never considered victims?
I don't really understand the "learning tool" concept. Perhaps it is in the same way that "Superman" is a great learning tool for human flight.
Well, OK, that is a stretch. But it does remind me of the idea that some airsoft players have that watching "war movies" teaches them how to be real soldiers.
For me personally, pornography has been an outlet of basic human desires and an indicator of the desires that thrive within me. It is a good mirror and a opportunity to learn about yourself on a very primitive level. It has even helped my relationship in many ways.
If you enjoy looking at for example rape porn, then that's telling you that you have serious issues. I cannot enjoy porn when the female actors don't enjoy it. That, in my opinion, defeats the purpose of sex.
I don't know if there is any sociological study on that matter, but my personal experience is the more prudishly people are supposed to live, the more they will turn their sexuality inwards and will view pornography, use prostitutes while being married, engage in more fetish sex, abuse children sexually. So on the question what society should do about pornography, it's easy: Let's talk about sex, baby! And that involves the biology behind it, all kinds of sexual orientations etc from a young age
Judging by what i know from your video and Nadine Strossens "Defending Pornography", I guess the whole issue is so complicated over there in America because your law has this concept of "obscenity" that determines what should and what shouldn't be shown and seen.
This new research on porn consumption makes things difficult for people who seek to ban porn. I doubt that many politicians will support their wish if they know that they're going against at least half of the population.
Uguu, that half of the population may have been wrong, I overlooked that this research refered only to _young_ men. Are there other studies that are represantative for the entire (American) population?
Still, whenever a politician thinks of supporting the people who want to ban pornography, it would be a good idea to remind him of this research.
But dont get me wrong I got stoned through lots of lectures. Now that I am an instructor and at the end of every quarter I require an oral presentation before the class, I get stoned also.
If you really are a Professor I would have to come to your class stoned out of my mind. Your information and arguments are a great but just a little too longwinded and almost a little litero centric. I couldn't handle a drawn out lecture with your style I would need to be baked and I would pick up the gist of it by tuning in every now and then.
1. Of course porn should be banned, it is an industry centred entirely around misogyny, every porn vid is made from a gynosexual point of view, and the woman or women are always being abused and spat on and humiliated. Plus it is an industry econtrolled by men, men like Jenna Jameson and Tory Lane.
2. And of course all the women in porn are there against their will because we all know that all women hate sex, only men have libidos and women are too weak and stupid to know what they really want and get it. If there was a sizable market for androsexual porn aimed at women I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that most straight men would be up for staring in it.
3. And noone would even think of regarding these men as victims, and in the unlikely event that one man did come foward and claim to be a victim, what would we do. In all honesty? We would piss our selves laughing at him, then tell him to shut the fuck up and grow a pair. But when its women starring in porn aimed at men its a completely different thing. Isn't it?
4. Then there is the matter of what would happen if any kids saw this, their heads would explode wouldn't they? Go to any psychiatric ward and you'll see people who glimpsed some pornography in childhood, and have been in thereapy since. Jesus butt fucking christ these antiporn and antiprostitution facist fucktards make me more angry than young earth creationists and hellfire evangelists put together! Anyway calming down lets get on to your questions.
5. As to whether virtual child porn be legal, it most definately should. The basic case can be made by simlpy pointing out that in a liberal society where individual freedoms are valued every activity should be left legal but non compulsory unless it can be shown that leaving this activity legal or non compulsory would inevitably trample the rights of certain people who do not have the option of saying no, such as in the case of actual child abuse or reproductive incest.
6. Thus in any debate over whether something should be banned 100% of the burden of proof rests on the shoulders of those supporting the ban, and if they can't lift it then those supporting legalisation win by default every time. There really is no need for any further dicussion:) And since in the cases of gamballing, all drugs, homosexuality, polygyny, polyandry, non reproductive incest, prostitution and all porn not involving REAL rape andor child abuse cont.
7. cont. noone is being hurt who does not have the choice to back out at any time all of them should be made completely legal immediately:) With the legal issues out of the way I don't think pornography in general or simulated child pornography in particular are generally harmful to those veiwing them, while some hardcore porn does have misogynistic undertones this is not nearly as prevalent or intense as the sex facists would have us believe.
8. The women are usualy shown as being happy, if not enthusiastic or dominant. In fact misogyny may sometimes be a result of sexual frustration in young men which could be alleviated by access to porn. Similarlly access to simulaled child porn may help peadophiles avoid becoming child molesters by providing an alternative outlet for their desires.
While I do agree that pornography depicts women (and some times men, depending on your flavour of porn) in very negative, demeaning light, I think that it is only one factor on how men view women (or women view men, or whatever) during sex. There are hundreds of other factors, including parenting, religious beliefs and personal expereinces, that must be taken into consideration as well. So even if porn is problematic, there are hundreds of other things that are as well that can be equally bad.
I love making amateur porn! What the Bush government did to Max Hardcore was no better than using the Constitution as toilet paper. As long as all parties involved in the porn are willing, there is nothing "obscene". Calling something "obscene" is far too subjective and only ideas with objective criteria belong in law.
It seems that porn is not a problem. If porn would be a problem, our society would have already collapsed.
About virtual childporn, if we allow fake violence, we should allow fake childporn. Besides, virtual childporn is not new:
Back in the 1980s, in my Junior High School, we had a crudely handdraw cartoon of Lucy and Linus and Linus of Peanuts having sex circulating the school. That was virtual incestuous childporn. " . . . ; there is nothing new under the Sun." -- Ecclesiastes
Well, I see there's a whole range of opinions on what the legal age for viewing of pornography should be. I will concede that 18 may be too high, considering how in most states in the US we already let teenagers at 16 to risk their own lives and that of everyone else's by allowing them to drive and smoke.
Personally, I've viewed pornography since I was pre-pubescent. Has it harmed me? Not in any amount that is recognizeable. In fact, the pleasure that I recieve from viewing it is, in my opinion, far more benificial than any detriment that it has caused me. Porn also helps me contain my desire for certain sex acts that I would otherwise be more pressing on my sexual partner to perform on me. If anything, women should be happy that guys can distract themselves with porn to give them a break. : )
This line of reasoning always annoys me, especially when it comes up with conversations with my friends about age restrictions for anything, (video games in particular.) Just because you think you turned out okay doesn't mean that everyone else is going to be so lucky!
I get the feeling that even when this research on effects of pornography matures and actually has something concrete to say, it's still going to be ignored by people who
Consider the weight of scientific consensus on the effects of violence in video games and television. It's one thing to say that adults are free to choose how they want to live--but I've encountered on a handful of occasions where the scientific conclusions were discounted by such statements as, "Well, half of those researchers work for focus groups with a political agenda anyway," or "Well, we know psychology isn't a real science, lol."
(cont.) I think the idea is for parents to see the age restriction and realize it may not be appropriate for their child to view such material. It is then the parent's responsibility to set a limit. Even then, it doesn't mean they won't see it. I see the restrictions as being set to cover the producing company. They can now say they have clearly warned of explicit content, and it is not their responsibility to control children, because parents DO have the technological means to filter it out.
In my opinon age restrictions are pointless. Not because there is not a reasonable principle to impose such a restriction, but I don't believe that effective at all. We all know, especially on the internet, it is extremely easy to pretend to be something you are not. Most 13 year olds who see something that says you must be 18 to view, are going to say, hmm...I wonder what this is. Now all they have to do is punch in a DOB more than 18 years old and they're in.
I shan't respond to all of your questions because my answer to question one is "I don't know." My response to your earlier question concerning how opponents to evidence that pornography is not damaging is that their responses would vary. I expect that Christian fundies, with whom I am most familiar, would simply politicize the findings, deny the results and claim the research was biased, fraudulent, and part of a secular conspiracy to "rob us of our essence" or something.
I think it is problematic because porn objectifies, both men and women, as objects of gratification. Using a person as a means is always immoral.
As for what society should do about it. I don't know. Personally, I see it just as problematic to censor all forms of pornography as it is to allow it to run rampant.
However, I am certain that we need to protect the younger, adolescent demographic from porn more than we currently do.
Because, because if horny teenagers see porn, their heads will asplode.
Sex is normal. Men and women have sex. It's interesting and arousing to watch attractive people have sex. Watching attractive people have sex has no real world consequences. Get over it.
Go to any of the various free pornographic video services available on the web and tell me if the kind of sex people have in those videos qualifies as normal.
There's a case to be made for the free distribution of pornography, but saying
Of course porn stars aren't engaging in normal sex. That's why it is entertaining. Black Hawk Down wasn't an accurate depiction of warfare, but it was still very entertaining. There's nothing wrong with pornography.
Yes, but we don't allow movie theaters to show Black Hawk Down to just anybody do we? You seem to be suggesting that any kind of age restriction on pornography is misguided--that's a strong statement on the direction public policy should take, and I don't think you've made a convincing case for it.
I just think teens 14+ should be allowed to watch porn. They already do, and there is absolutely no reason to not allow them to. I think that is complete reasonable, don't you?
It sounds reasonable, but I'm a cynic--tell a 14 year old it's okay to watch porn and a 13 year old won't see why the age distinction is so arbitrary. No, better to keep the age restriction at 18 (even 21) as a way of saying, "These are grown up things that you don't understand. Experiment at your peril." If it sounds hypocritical (considering how, as you said, 14 year-olds are watching porn anyway,) then, I'm sorry, that's what I am.
You do have a good point about restrictions on movie theatres.
The way we put ages on things is kind of silly though. Age is afterall an arbitrary number we assign to ourselves based on our rotation around the sun which has no bearing on our real phyiscal or psychological development.
A better way to moderate what children should be watching is by having parents pay attention to the content (movies, games, TV, etc) and censor if they deem necessary. Continued...
"Age is afterall an arbitrary number we assign to ourselves based on our rotation around the sun which has no bearing on our real phyiscal or psychological development."
THANK YOU for giving words to my utter disdain for age discrimination.
If you move out of your house at 16 to live on your own which I believe is the "legal age" (ugh) to do so in most places then you should be free to buy and drink alcohol, buy cigarettes, buy/watch porn, go to clubs or anything else that is "age" restricted.
You're old enough to live on your own, you're old enough to make your own decisions in life. Sadly, this doesn't fit with the exploitative nature of the world.
IMO, even if the depictions in porn or violent movies are fictional, that's not always going to be clear to children and even adolescents watching. They may lack the experience to place these depictions in their intended context. If we want them to gain that experience, some kind of sexually challenging material may be necessary in sex education at schools.
Allowing even the possibility that kids may see BDSM, trannies, and rape on a website seems like a irresponsibly laissez-faire attitude.
I never said their heads will explode. I never said that the consequences are "severe". In actuality, I said that banning pornography would most likely be WORSE than allowing it.
Everything you do has negative consequences. Do we necessarily know what those consequences are? In most cases no. Look, I'm not trying to say that you cannot be a good person and watch porn. What I am saying though, is that it has an inherent nature of objectifying people for gratification.
would people stop objectifying others if all porn disappeared tomorrow? Probably not.
There really is no way to know if porn has a bad effect on peoples relationships with others. We are dealing with people and MANY MANY different factors come into play other than porn and it is IMPOSSIBLE to isolate porn in such a way.
I'm sorry, using other people to achieve something yourself is inherently wrong, it's immoral. Go read Immanuel Kant, a perfectly secular philosopher who will agree with me.
I am almost completely satisfied with American's legal approach to pornography. I don't want to see the government involved in the creation of images of any sort, including those that are sexually explicit.
Distribution is another matter. I believe pornography should not be distributed to prepubescent children. This sounds obvious at first but it has implications for a lot of stuff now taken for granted, such as the Tommy Hilfiger billboards in Times Square showing soft-core pics of group sex.
Just like all ideas and concepts, pornography can be done in bad ways as well as in good ways, I think. If the goal is to degrade and put down women, it can absolutely do that, but also bear in mind that it can be depicted in a respectful and sometimes rather beautiful way.
So it's not degenerate etc. by definition, and thus it shouldn't be banned all together just because some of it is. Most adults like pornography in some shape or form, and are able to enjoy it in a sensible way.
1. Porn hasnt been proven to be particularly harmful,
2. it would be impossible to stop completely, and
3. if you made it illegal, you're inviting potentially dangerous, unscrupulous people into the industry. That's what has happened with drugs, guns and people smuggling.
As with drugs, guns and immigration, it would be much easier to regulate than is to stop completely. In doing so we wouldn't be giving loads of money to potentially dangerous criminals.
I don't even agree with the premise that pornography inherently causes any problems. Obviously most of it does, but what about the couples who willfully participate in amateur porn, or gay porn (lesbian or not). But if it was, where are the arguments for bondage where the women dominate, does this further the subordination of all men? But seriously, what I would have society do is stop broadcasting it on TV while calling it commercials or reality tv.
Those who say that porn degrades women, haven't watched gay porn. Degredation, or role playing (domination-submission), is a part of sex, a part of fantasy, is all about control.Women find porn appealing which displays the female controlling the situation, calling the shots, telling the man what to do. I don't find this degrading, if it were to happen to me, because I'm having sex, and that is the goal of all men, to have sex.
Some women like it rough, or "degrading", others like to watch it.
Wow. What can I say. If there was anyone who deliberately misconstrues and makes unwarrented assumptions... project much? Where do you get "self righteous" from my replies? And you're starting to wander from the subject. I have a question for *you*... how do *you* define "pornography"? You seem to feel the dictionary is a weapon, but only as a weapon of obfuscation...
This is a great topic, thank you. I've had now two different girlfriends who have been vehemently against pornography, both of which were, to varying degrees, concerned over the objectification of women and the idea that if I'm looking at other women, then I'm "not all theirs." Whatever that means. I can definitely see the merits in trying to limit what types (i.e. violent, rape) of pornography are shown, I cannot advocate for censorship though. And I think that's what they're asking for.
Absolutely, unfortunately there isn't much space in which to write out a thought. I can see why someone would feel very strongly about some types of pornography, especially that of the more violent nature, but I cannot agree to censor videos that feature two consenting adults engaged in a legal action, even if it is violent or objectifying. Does that clear things up?
I suppose... though I honestly see no merit in limiting what information is and isn't available... especially if it is fictitious.
I can see a demand that distribution of certain kinds of information be non-profit exclusive (thereby removing or reducing production incentive) for example... but banning existent information strikes me as a concept without merit and full of danger.
Alas, I see "the controversy over pornography" as being a topic so broad as to be meaningless. By the time all contributing factors are involved, you will have brought in more unresolved scientific inquiry than could comfortably fit into a 17 volume encyclopedia... and we wouldn't even be touching private opinion or religious dogma (though their effects may be noted).
This topic, at its heart, shoots straight at the most fundamental questions of nature v nurture and liberty ethics... etc
I think porn is more helpful than problematic. I haven't seen any study done, but I believe that pornography helps reduce the urge of rape in men. Condemning acts like masturbation could be a cause for such urges. Though porn may degrade women, and create fantasy events, it does help in relieving these urges. I still don't approve of the degredation of women, or even anal sex with woman because I personally view it as immoral. But, I still whole support pornography in its many forms.
i do not view porn as problematic in principle. yes it has the potential to cause discrimination, abuse, misogyny, and other problems, but these are not a given consequence, and the same criticisms could be reasonably argued against capitalism, so.....
The most egalitarian societies when it comes to gender are the most inundated with pornography. The amount of rape has gone down over the past few decades while the amount and access to porn has increased. I am biological female and I do not view porn as harmful to me.
I laugh at women who say porn is liberating for them. What's so liberating about turning yourself into a "creation" with implants etc. and faking orgasms?
Well if they find it liberating being puppeted by a male dominated industry.....
And I have never seen a mainstream porn "star" that hasn't had surgery of some sort . They all go get waxed, implanted, liposucked, and as I said "etc."
Yeah the women are puppets, just like the strippers that made several hundreds of dollars a night while I made minimum wage bouncing. I have several good friends that are now pilots or medical professionals because of porn/stripping. I think you need to produce some evidence for your assertions.
And if all the porn stars you see are waxed, implanted, and liposucked it is probably a reflection on society not porn. However, I have not problem finding porn that is nothing like you describe.
Well if you think it is ok to do anything at all because you make a lot of money doing it, then fine. You can go kill people too. It's ironic that you are in such denial with regards to what porn is and what women are expected to look like. It is also ironic that you seem to think you are well-researched on the topic, considering the majority of women in porn are of low socio-economic status, including one of my own friends who was desperate for money.
If you think consenting adults having sex on camera is the same as killing people for money, you are dumber than I thought. I worked as a bouncer at a strip club and met many porn stars and they seemed to enjoy making tons of money every night off of guys. The guys enjoyed it too. Two happy parties exchanging money. Quick we better make it illegal. I don't know anything about your "friend" but I'm guessing porn wasn't the root of her problems.
Furthermore the real issue is that your opinion isn't based on research or evidence. You are just trying to force your own bronze age morals on everyone else because you aren't allowed to have fun. So, unless you have more than anecdotal evidence that porn is harmful, zip it. Hell, maybe you should even check some out. Maybe you would be less uptight.
btw I kill people for money, but don't worry it's government sanctioned so its OK!
I think porn is clearly delusional. A lot of it seems to be woman enjoying various degrees of coercion. But I agree with the rulings in this video, its not good when the state takes action about it.
CheekyVimto08 1 month ago
I think it is ridiculous that pornography is legal but prostitution isn't.
Pornography: A pays B to have sex with C and films it in order to distribute it towards D, E, F, G... etc... Prostitution: A simply pays B to have sex with A.
Assuming either one is "bad" or "wrong", why is prostitution considered worse to the extent that it is illegal while pornography, which operates under the exact same principle, and even extends it to envolve more people is not?
Simply stupid.
dannytibi 3 months ago
"O Come All Ye faithful." For real man?
chirectomy 3 months ago
1. no
2. Pornography does not lead to any perversion that one hasn't previously consider, there is no reason to because each of us have our own sense of moral. My own example, i have seen voluntarily drawn child pornography (loli hentai), i didn't like it, i found it to much for me and have never seen it again.
2a. In freudian psychology, repression is a fundamental part of the theory, the more repressed a person is more likely he is to have a neurosis.....
sesaruoosama 7 months ago
@sesaruoosama cont. pornography have a advantage that it provides safe and personal let out to sexual urges, even from those that are not very well socially seen. The sexual satisfaction can also prevent the search of sexual gratification, as is not the same 3 months of abstinence to 3 days of abstinence.
3. i doubt it. i have debate this even to fellow psychology majors and they still insist that their religion is right. I guess that is what happen when someone have grew thinking that.
sesaruoosama 7 months ago
1. No
2. I don't view it as causing harm that can be recognized in any sense. Harming society isn't something that can really be legislated because it's the change of the majority and as long as that doesn't trample on established 'rights' there's no justification to steer it towards a specific goal of a particular individual.
3. Nothing, I'm not even sure there is anything that could be done, especially considering technology today. Keep minors out, but after that, it's a free country.
CrazyBluePrime 9 months ago
For me when I viewed pornography, it wasn't so much a destruction of my idea of real relationships- but rather porn was like a video game. It wasn't real and it was fun. I think this is how many males view it. They don't objectify the women in their lives through pornographic ideals, but rather they look at fantasy. In my opinion, its no different from reading Harry Potter and wishing to be a wizard. Its not possible, nor do people think it is; its just fun to pretend.
creepyoldman2 1 year ago
@creepyoldman2 I agree. It's just fantasy. And just like most people who watch porn, I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Furthermore, if we illegalie porn, I'm afrraid it will be about as detrimental to society as making prostitution illegal, alcohol prohibition in the '30's, and the current War on Drugs. In other words, it will create more problems than it will resolve.
br00k39 1 year ago
Claiming that all pornography is disrespectful of women and depicts them in a submissive position? These guys are just ignorant. Do they think that there is no such thing as gay porn? Even leaving that aside, their claim is still flat out false.
Anyway, the onus is on those who would ban pornography to demonstrate its deleterious effects. My main objection to the court findings is that they were too hasty in accepting the premise of the pro-ban argument even if they ultimately rejected it.
LordZentei 1 year ago
Pragmatic approach. Societies which legalize pornography and prostitution have slightly lower rates of sex crimes.
bdf2718 1 year ago
I have long held the belief that pornography objectifies the person that is being viewed but recently I have been inclined to change my mind. I have been wondering if it objectifies people more than if they provide any other kind of service. I think it has to do with the mindset of the participants.
tacojohn9 1 year ago
Do people not realize that banning the sexual fetishism of the human body will lead humans to fetishize other things (as in things that human beings can't reproduce with)?
The church, if it accomplishes its mission of banning pornography (which won't happen ever, but...) they'll actually *create* the very problem they're trying to solve.
Think about it - did banning priests from having sex with women stop them from having sex?
SnarkLicker 1 year ago
i actually think that the ban of porn would cause more rape, because those men couldn't satisfy the their desires for the internet. bad idea.
awesomemaster1906 1 year ago
2:02-2:10 Isn't that pretty much what religion does?
mefondlevagina 1 year ago
@mefondlevagina That's what I was thinking. How does a group that is so fully immersed in a fantasy world get off by condemning fantasies? Irony is the best!
tacojohn9 1 year ago
I think Youtube changed its layout just to screw with your videos... Link to the right.
On virtual child pornography. The 2003 PROTECT act signed in by Bush made that illegal again. Along with other ridiculous things this law did, drawing, or possessing a sexually explicit drawing of someone who appears to be under 18 is illegal. And there have been people convicted of having such drawings. Most of which are Anime in nature. How you can tell the age of a Japanese cartoon character is beyond me.
TheWhiteRabbit1990 1 year ago
@TheWhiteRabbit1990 "I think Youtube changed its layout just to screw with your videos... Link to the right."
No doubt that entire thing is a conspiracy against me. I'm hip to what these YouTube bastards are up to. ;-)
As for the PROTECT Act, it's an attempt to geet around Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition and goes to illegal misrepresentations regarding virtual child pornography (i.e., claiming that it is actual child pornography). In United States v. Williams, the 2008 case in...
ProfMTH 1 year ago
(con't) @TheWhiteRabbit1990 ...which the Supreme Court upheld the PROTECT Act, Justice Scalia, writing for the 7-justice majority, said, "Simulated child pornography will be as available as ever, so long as it is offered and sought as such, and not as real child pornography."
ProfMTH 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheWhiteRabbit1990 "How you can tell the age of a Japanese cartoon character is beyond me."
Copyright date? "Really officer! She was drawn in 1992!"
SkepticalTraveler 1 year ago
@TheWhiteRabbit1990
I'm a against (real) child porn of course, but making lolicon, the sexual drawing of a character that appears to be underage, illegal is kinda silly.
I've seen women (e.g. Kitty Yung) who look like preteens doing porn, although she looks underaged she's not.
LegionIscariot 9 months ago
Comment removed
LegionIscariot 9 months ago
1. No.
2. I have never been presented with any evidence that it is bad. I have, on the contrary, experienced very good things as a result of it. ;)
3. ... make moar?
Loals 1 year ago
Taking Creationist thought into account and their adamant hold on their beliefs despite a ton of evidence in all fields of science in favor of Evolution, Abiogenesis, Geology Etc.
I do believe that even if there was a mountain of scientific evidence proving Porn to be a good thing and quiet healthy with no ill effects. Most people against Pornography, would still hold onto their point of view. People can be extremely stubborn that way.
Sunkincid 1 year ago
What? pornography perpetuates subordination? Why? Because it depicts sex? By that logic, sex perpetuates subordination, and should therefore be banned. Maybe then the catholic church would be happy.
I think that porn is not a problem. Its just that a lot of people regard sex as an elephant in the living room, and the stylized, explicit depiction in porn is more than they want to deal with.
BrutticusForce 1 year ago
i see it like any other thing in life, fine in moderation.
darkrulerbob 1 year ago
Pornography degrades women only as much as "romance" novels degrade men.
dave4248 1 year ago
So many people willing to offer opinions, so few willing to back it up with facts.
Facts:
In countries where pornographic is easily accessible (Norway, Denmark, japan...) Violent crime against women is lower than in countries (u.s. middle eastern countries) where it is harder to obtain or citizens are socially shunned for obtaining it.
therealallpro 1 year ago
1) No
2) People are problematic; the whole gun control issue, blah blah
3) Instead of looking for young men who haven't seen porn, they should be looking for young men who have a sex education; myself, I poured over books on sexual education throughout my teen years (much to the detriment of my sex LIFE), even though I already had a collection of skin mags when I was nine.
Shadizar666 1 year ago
porn? aawh~yeah!
I consider myself a porn-connoisseur so this vid was great fun to watch
Sutorenja 1 year ago
I hold women in very high regard and view porn on nearly a daily basis. I have been looking at some type of porn since about the age of seven. I see women as complete equals in every way. I care more about a woman's personality than her physicality but I also have a very healthy sexual appetite. I am not willing to sleep around so, I do so only in fantasy. Porn satisfies that need and does not make it stronger for me.
thisisaguy 1 year ago
i think porn becomes harmful when people start to become addicted and ignore real relationships in favor of porn.
besides that i thnk its harmless. i watch porn with my girlfriend and its been in our favor so far. porns something that people "masturbate to with one hand and push away in disgust with the other."
StaulkHolm 1 year ago
@StaulkHolm
Well said... I agree entirely.
0mni42 1 year ago
funny that the rc church has an active opinion on porn. well cover up and protect pedophiles, but porns bad mmmkay?
adzug 2 years ago
Hey Prof. I just discovered your videos and am enjoying them. Keep it up!
I have a question for you. I don't know your expertise, but have seen you talk a lot about law. Do you think that the decision in American Booksellers Association v. Hudnut could be cited as a way to end the FCC's jurisdiction over censoring over the air TV and radio?
Thanks for the great vids. I think I'm going to enjoy watching the rest of your uploads.
YoSoyJu 2 years ago
Thanks a lot. Welcome to the channel. And, no, off the top of my head I don't thing Hudnut could be cited for the proposition you've suggested.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Porno is good for you, why? Penn n Teller already made a full episode on it, and I'm sure those ppl rejectin it watch it in secrecy
HardRawRocknRoll 2 years ago
I can't begin to speak for everyone, for as far as i know porn affects everyone differently. However, i can say unequivocally that porn does not harm and may even help my intimate relationship. There is a considerable inequality in the sex drives of me and my partner, and viewing porn sometimes prevents my sexual frustration from mounting. I also know that my partner has viewed it periodically. But we seem to think of each other as on a completely other plane than those we are viewing.
horsesandmountains 2 years ago
I find the assertion that porn is degrading to women to be quite obviously ridiculous. Certainly SOME porn is degrading to women, (And/Or men) but saying that since a small percentage of porn is degrading, all porn is degrading is wrong to the point of sounding like a bad joke. Indeed, not all porn even INVOLVES women.
I also watched Chomsky's video, and my opinion of him instantly dropped from "Intelligent individual" to (I can't phrase this delicately in the characters I have left) "Moron".
dirkson 2 years ago
Hey, Prof. Pornography is much like the "nuclear genie". Even if you wanted to, you can't stuff it back into the bottle. I offer no solution. I do feel, however, that porn's pervasive nature leaves simple innocence vulnerable, primarily with respect to children. Even with content controls, how do we keep it from children and is it important enough to us as a society to make a concerted effort to delay the onset of maturity in order to maintain innocence if for only a little longer?
TV843 2 years ago
Thanks for the comment. I think that in the main the efforts to keep children from having easy access to pornography are successful. Of course, the Internet presents some new problems -- or new twists on old problems -- but it doesn't seem that they're beyond dealing with well short of banning pornography.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
The issue of children having access to much of anything is more or less the same issue it has always been to me, before and after the internet... parents have allowed themselves to think of schools as being the things that raise their children and have become lazy in exercising their responsibilities to monitor and shape their children's experiences... if kids are getting ahold of porn it is because of what individual families are or aren't doing...
In short, NOT society's problem to fix.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
@TV843 I will refrain from going into large detail on such an old post, but one question: What is so good about 'innocence' that one would want to "delay the onset of maturity"? I would think more maturity is always better.
TheOJDrinker 11 months ago
@TheOJDrinker If we're to broadly accept that maturity for maturity's sake is a good, we might as well abolish child labor laws & consign children to the workforce, eliminate the drinking age & children should be obligated to enlist as soldiers in the military. Of course, I personally don't believe there's benefit in any of these things, but essentially what I'm describing is forced maturity. How would these things be good for a child? In what way does porn benefit a child's development?
TV843 11 months ago
@TheOJDrinker As a child, I grew up in a very hostile environment. I can tell you I wish I could've been a kid longer, daydreamed more, had more fun. I wish I could have delayed some of the responsibilities that were imposed upon me. I wish I hadn't experienced the verbal and mental violence I endured. I can see your point if you believe that maturity can be properly managed & cultivated by responsible roll models, but that might be a bit much to ask for in this world.
TV843 11 months ago
Penn and Teller did an episode of Bullshit! where they pointed out that two major US government studies on pornography revealed there is NO evidence that it is harmful to society in any way.
Check it out.
Underlings 2 years ago
I think women were far more surpressed back when showing an ankle was considered obscene! Probaly there is an inverse relationship between female surpression and male viewing of pornography. An outlet for the "shadow" perhaps? Just a thought.
Hadezul2 2 years ago
everybody I know does watch pornography...
stagesix6 2 years ago
@stagesix6
Good for you than!! THat jsut shows how sick people are!!
kaltrushify 2 years ago
porography is a form of art. it tends to reflect the way our society works. if there are subjugated woman in pornographic productions, it means that the society already does that. pornography do not put woman in lower standards just because it thinks its fun, but because this is the general though already. the anti-pornography guys commited an error in their argument, cause they change the cause-effect order.
stagesix6 2 years ago
@stagesix6
Yes and our society is sick and need to be reformed!!
And yes pornmakers think its fun to have a girl fucked by 15 guys and be covered in semen. pornmakers like to see girls being fucked by 3 gays simultaniosly,they liek to see girls raped,sexually harrased, sexualy abused,they like to see girls gag and girls being spanked,girls eating shit, girls that submit,girls being dominated. POrnmakers simply Locve to completely degrade and dehumanize WOMEN!!
Its very simple! T
kaltrushify 2 years ago
You do realize most of the fetishes you're outlining in the above pre-date the committing of them to moving picture?
I'm also not sure the market is dominated the "rough stuff" you're mentioning. Much of that is niche, especially the more "transgressive" stuff (simulated rape, scat, etc.)
I'm curious as to your basis for judging society as "sick" in this regard? I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm curious as to what you think "normal" would be and why.
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
@RadicalSolutions
I think that pornography is a Failure of an Economical system that allows everything as long as there is a profit interest!! Stuff that dehumanizes and degrades ppl should not be OK,no matter what the profit is!
kaltrushify 2 years ago
My problem is that I have a hard time being outraged with reality, at least in complete divorce from underlying causes.
Railing on "porn", IMHO. is much like railing on the thievery and criminality of impoverished communities, with little consciousness of why said situations exists.
I believe in "getting to the roots" ("radicalism.")
Where pornography is "problematic", is precisely where capitalism is problematic. Porn is also largely a consequence of male frustration wedded to opportunity.
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
Yeah, remove the monetary system and most of it would go away.
evesrib 2 years ago
I do hope you are being sarcastic. If not though, I suppose I would technically have to agree, but only because it is hard to film anything in an anarchy. Also, you seem to think that there is no such thing as free amateur porn... something that I assure you exists in spades.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
If pornography is degrading for women so it is for men. men are ALSO involved. what i do find dangerous about pornography is that it can lead to pedophilia
allison8914 2 years ago
How does pornography "lead to pedophilia," Allison?
ProfMTH 2 years ago
not that it leads to pedophilia bu CAN lead to it. a lot of times porn actresses are dressed in school girl uniforms and many other costumes to make them look really young. it can lead to men fantasizing under age girls or boys.
allison8914 2 years ago
This is ridiculous. The same argument holds that people who play video games like GTA are going to become car thieves or that people who read Kafka are going to become roaches.
That a person seeks entertainment which strokes an unrealizable fantasy seems far more likely an explanation than the idea that people are actively seeking to have deviant behavior implanted into their psyche. I would suggest that we are far safer giving our desires a virtual outlet vs. suppressing them completely.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
then why is it that so many men have fantasies involving very young girls? i'm NOT pro the suppression of pornography because that would make matters worst. kind of like when alcohol was prohibited but a lot of the extremes in porn i personally don't condone.
allison8914 2 years ago
"then why is it that so many men have fantasies involving very young girls?"
Partly because they're biologically programed to find youth attractive, partly because of the fantasy both men and women have about returning to their own youth and the innocence of their first love. These are deep psychological issues, and passing them off as the product of an industry is both short sighted and naive. Besides, one person's extreme is another's bread and butter... especially in fiction and fantasy.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
yeah i know that men find women who can reproduce more more attractive biologically but there are some who are attracted to girls who are not even old enough to reproduce...i'm so glad i'm lesbian since men are more depraved then women are...but i respect your opinion even though i don't share it...so long.
allison8914 2 years ago
"but there are some who are attracted to girls who are not even old enough to reproduce"
Your point? There are also "some" who find cabbage sexually attractive. In both cases we are talking about statistically small numbers, and in both cases a fantasy involving full grown women dressed up as school girls or cabbages is not the same thing as people who can't get off ANY OTHER WAY. As for men being more depraved than women... you wish. That fantasy is just as bad as those of any man. Bigot.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
my point is that men are not only attracted to young girls for any biological purpose. call me bigot but almost all if not all rape are committed by men. most sexual assault in all ways are committed by men. and the statistics show this. also men watch more porn...so long
allison8914 2 years ago
Then I guess since some more women than men marry for money, talk about their sexuality as a weapon and don't bother going into fields like science and math, they're all greedy, manipulative and stupid, huh? Just because one deviance is outward and one inward, doesn't mean they aren't equally sick.
So yes, you are a bigot, it is obvious and blatant and no less stupid than being a skinhead or KKK. And I would surely rather be an open minded man than a sexist woman any day.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
because if not for money what else are men good for? you sound sexist too...and stop being angry at me because men are more sick than women are...the reason more women marry for money is because men are fine dating a woman who could be their daughter knowing that that woman is only for his money...thanks you just gave me a great idea
allison8914 2 years ago
Men are programmed by the environment they grow up in. Just look at these movies Hollywood churns out - the opening scene is always an ass and a titty shot of a woman.
evesrib 2 years ago
"you sound sexist too..."
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I was in no way expressing my own opinion on the matter. Those generalizations about women were purely an example of your own logic applied in reverse. It is really quite sad to see you assume everyone shares your own shallow standards.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
well not sugar coating the fact that men are more depraved and a more danger to humanity and other species is not being shallow.
allison8914 2 years ago
Yeah, too bad it isn't a fact. It is your opinions; a rather shallow opinion based on the classic logical fallacy of all bigots.
Some members of A seem to be X therefore all members of A are unavoidably X.
It is almost universally false, including this case. And your unwavering embrace of this particular depravity demonstrates it perfectly. And like most prejudice people, you are largely incapable of seeing it...at least you serve as a good example to others that women are not all roses.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
well look at the rape statistics in any country and the grand majority and sometimes all, depending on the country, are men.
allison8914 2 years ago
I appreciate that you are very hung up on one or two kinds of behavior, but I have already told you in a rainbow of ways that "depravity" comes in many flavors and that they are, over all, spread evenly... so just as with most other human traits, men and women both have their own trends and tendencies, but one only outshine the other in the eyes of the prejudiced.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
"men are more depraved then women are"
I guess that's entirely dependent upon one's point of view. For instance, I'd expect a woman to say that, but not a man. Just as I'd expect to hear a male questioning the general intelligence of women, but not a woman.
The real truth, is that much of the opposition I find to pornography, starts really sounding like a case of women being grossed out by some male fantasies. Funny thing is, males too can find women quite terrifying in their own ways.
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
actually it has been proven that men are not more intelligent than women and that men are indeed more prone to be pedophiles, rapists and pretty much depraved.
allison8914 2 years ago
Again, try for a moment to "imagine" another perspective. What I said previously had nothing to do with empirical observation, but perception and self interest.
For instance, if one were really interested in the "science" of it all, it would be impossible to avoid the issue of power relationships between human beings. Much that we find fearful and objectionable about others, is an exercise of "ability." And similarly, much "evil" doesn't occur precisely for a lack of ability.
(cont'd)
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
(cont'd)
Well, selection has created a marked discrepancy between male and female morphology in human beings, wrt. to general physical strength and durability to assault. It's been theorized this was a consequence of the first division of labor amongst human hunger-gatherers; males as hunters and somewhat expendable risk takers, with females as gatherers minding children in less dangerous environments. A much better survival strategy than everyone going along on dangerous hunts, etc
(cont'd)
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
(cont'd)
Well, simply put - males generally come into this world with a marked "power" advantage over females. And in environments of privation, that's going to lead to the brutalization of males, and in turn, that will spill over onto women.
IOW. a great deal of what men "do" or can "get away with" is purely a species of ability.
I don't know about you, but I've never considered persons who are "virtuous" in deed for simply having a lack of opportunity to be really "superior" to anyone.
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
@AutodidacticPhd
You cant really say that porn is just a fantazy...not when you demand to ejaculate on your girls face or betwwen breasts,not when you want to fuck her on the asshole,not when you ask her to film the sex! All these are infuences from the pornindustry, so pornography apparently leaks out into everyday life and isnt just a fanatsy anymore!!
kaltrushify 2 years ago
uhhh......how "young" are you talking about? Men are only programmed by society. Go study anthropology.
evesrib 2 years ago
That's not based on anything but assumptions.
People ALREADY fantasize about partners who are below the age of majority, or age of consent even, amongst other things. I really think pornography has about as much of a chance of making a man a pedophile as it does making a straight person gay (or vice versa.)
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
You do have a point. It's just that the pro-raunch crowd on here thinks pornography is the most wonderfully wonderful thing they have ever seen. These are real dangers that we even went over in Psychology back in college. It should be illegal to have adult females portrayed as fuckable underage girls. This occurs in regular movies (not porn) too.
evesrib 2 years ago
I guess I just don't share your enthusiasm for authority.
People believing they know what's best for others is ordinary. Believing they can form some kind of vanguard or elite who should be deputized to police others is something I cannot abide.
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
The Federal Government of Australia wants to block internet access to many things to "protect the children" and of course certain forms of pornography are included.
A recent poll showed that 96% of Australians are against this.
EssentialPedagogy 2 years ago
@EssentialPedagogy
I should think that something facing such overwhelming popular opposition would be doomed.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Civil authorities should prevent the production, writing and distribution of religious materials, the obvious reason being that it immerses all who are involved with it, in the illusion of a fantasy world.
And I would go further. Civil authorities should isolate and medicate any consumer of religious ideas, as they are exposed to schizophrenic hallucinations and behaviour, and can be dangerous both to themselves and others.
eldadevata 2 years ago
The porn demeaning women thing kinda immediately brought to mind the same line of reasoning that Muslims use with the hijab argument. Saying that women will be treated worse for being shown as sexual beings (just as the men who are masturbating to them are) seems asinine.
On a lolzier note: The catholic church talking about engaging in fantasy? Irony to the max.
lisamariefan 2 years ago
Well if women want to put their lives at risk and be puppeted by a male-dominated industry - I'd say that's pretty screwed up. Chinese women put their health at risk by foot-binding. Then there were the women who damaged themselves with corsets. The problem isn't with being "sexual". It's when women and little girls are "hypersexualized". We are more than sexual beings. The entire sex industry indoctrinates people with the belief otherwise.......
evesrib 2 years ago
Furthermore, it's when women are told that there is only one way to be sexy - which the sex industry has managed to indoctrinate people with. This is why little girls grow up thinking they have to vomit their food, put themselves at risk for skin cancer through tanning, and put their lives at risk through unnecessary cosmetic surgeries. Luckily, there are those of us who managed to think for ourselves - and we are frequently criticized by the sheeple for being "anti-sex".
evesrib 2 years ago
And still further, porn stars are who younger women and men often look to - to teach them how to have sex. So they learn to imitate an imitation - to fake lust. I guess men really shouldn't get angry when women fake orgasms, considering they are learning from the same example, lol. If men want women to really have an orgasm, they need to know they can't just sit back and expect her to scream with pleasure when they aren't doing anything to pleasure her - as is often shown in porn.
evesrib 2 years ago
you really are an idiot. Unless you have evidence for your position. Peer reviewed empirical evidence, then shut up. You assert things that are patently not true the use those assertions to back up your absurd claims. Stop it. Everyone here who is scientifically literate is laughing at your ignorance.
choupick 2 years ago
Comment removed
raymitch7410 2 years ago
Agreed choupick.
evesrib, some people can actually tell the difference between reality and nonsense (Like knowing what's on TV/Porn isn't always real). Unfortunately you are clearly not one of these people.
You're making lots of very broad generalizations of people, and are somehow drawing the connection that if you like watching sex that you like women being crippled, little girls vomiting, and stupid adolesecents copying porn stars.
:/
raymitch7410 2 years ago
I love the videos; but it should be important to note that even though Noam Chomsky doesn't personally support pornography, he doesn't think it should be prohibited by the government.
86adamleon 2 years ago
I'm glad you noted that. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Porn can be a great learning tool. I think the people that have a problem with porn probably have a problem with sex also. You know who you are. Don't think for a minute there isn't some porn that grosses me out, there is. But to ban it would be wrong. If you don't care for it, don't watch. Why is it the males are never considered victims?
kapt1948 2 years ago
"Why is it the males are never considered victims? "
Same reason little red riding hood isn't depicted as a young boy and the wolf a woman.
Its just how it has always been, men are predators and women are the prey.
insidetrip101 2 years ago
LOL - the typical response. See my comments to lisamariefan above.
evesrib 2 years ago
I don't really understand the "learning tool" concept. Perhaps it is in the same way that "Superman" is a great learning tool for human flight.
Well, OK, that is a stretch. But it does remind me of the idea that some airsoft players have that watching "war movies" teaches them how to be real soldiers.
boggisthecat 2 years ago
For me personally, pornography has been an outlet of basic human desires and an indicator of the desires that thrive within me. It is a good mirror and a opportunity to learn about yourself on a very primitive level. It has even helped my relationship in many ways.
If you enjoy looking at for example rape porn, then that's telling you that you have serious issues. I cannot enjoy porn when the female actors don't enjoy it. That, in my opinion, defeats the purpose of sex.
lexmurphy 2 years ago
I don't know if there is any sociological study on that matter, but my personal experience is the more prudishly people are supposed to live, the more they will turn their sexuality inwards and will view pornography, use prostitutes while being married, engage in more fetish sex, abuse children sexually. So on the question what society should do about pornography, it's easy: Let's talk about sex, baby! And that involves the biology behind it, all kinds of sexual orientations etc from a young age
quotendeutscher 2 years ago
Judging by what i know from your video and Nadine Strossens "Defending Pornography", I guess the whole issue is so complicated over there in America because your law has this concept of "obscenity" that determines what should and what shouldn't be shown and seen.
This new research on porn consumption makes things difficult for people who seek to ban porn. I doubt that many politicians will support their wish if they know that they're going against at least half of the population.
asymmetrisch 2 years ago
Uguu, that half of the population may have been wrong, I overlooked that this research refered only to _young_ men. Are there other studies that are represantative for the entire (American) population?
Still, whenever a politician thinks of supporting the people who want to ban pornography, it would be a good idea to remind him of this research.
asymmetrisch 2 years ago
But dont get me wrong I got stoned through lots of lectures. Now that I am an instructor and at the end of every quarter I require an oral presentation before the class, I get stoned also.
BARYMCOCKNER 2 years ago
"I couldn't handle a drawn out lecture with your style...."
Just as well. Judging by your comment, I don't think I could stand to read any more of your writing than I have here.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
If you really are a Professor I would have to come to your class stoned out of my mind. Your information and arguments are a great but just a little too longwinded and almost a little litero centric. I couldn't handle a drawn out lecture with your style I would need to be baked and I would pick up the gist of it by tuning in every now and then.
BARYMCOCKNER 2 years ago
1. Of course porn should be banned, it is an industry centred entirely around misogyny, every porn vid is made from a gynosexual point of view, and the woman or women are always being abused and spat on and humiliated. Plus it is an industry econtrolled by men, men like Jenna Jameson and Tory Lane.
Aletheophile 2 years ago
2. And of course all the women in porn are there against their will because we all know that all women hate sex, only men have libidos and women are too weak and stupid to know what they really want and get it. If there was a sizable market for androsexual porn aimed at women I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that most straight men would be up for staring in it.
Aletheophile 2 years ago
3. And noone would even think of regarding these men as victims, and in the unlikely event that one man did come foward and claim to be a victim, what would we do. In all honesty? We would piss our selves laughing at him, then tell him to shut the fuck up and grow a pair. But when its women starring in porn aimed at men its a completely different thing. Isn't it?
Aletheophile 2 years ago
4. Then there is the matter of what would happen if any kids saw this, their heads would explode wouldn't they? Go to any psychiatric ward and you'll see people who glimpsed some pornography in childhood, and have been in thereapy since. Jesus butt fucking christ these antiporn and antiprostitution facist fucktards make me more angry than young earth creationists and hellfire evangelists put together! Anyway calming down lets get on to your questions.
Aletheophile 2 years ago
5. As to whether virtual child porn be legal, it most definately should. The basic case can be made by simlpy pointing out that in a liberal society where individual freedoms are valued every activity should be left legal but non compulsory unless it can be shown that leaving this activity legal or non compulsory would inevitably trample the rights of certain people who do not have the option of saying no, such as in the case of actual child abuse or reproductive incest.
Aletheophile 2 years ago
6. Thus in any debate over whether something should be banned 100% of the burden of proof rests on the shoulders of those supporting the ban, and if they can't lift it then those supporting legalisation win by default every time. There really is no need for any further dicussion:) And since in the cases of gamballing, all drugs, homosexuality, polygyny, polyandry, non reproductive incest, prostitution and all porn not involving REAL rape andor child abuse cont.
Aletheophile 2 years ago
7. cont. noone is being hurt who does not have the choice to back out at any time all of them should be made completely legal immediately:) With the legal issues out of the way I don't think pornography in general or simulated child pornography in particular are generally harmful to those veiwing them, while some hardcore porn does have misogynistic undertones this is not nearly as prevalent or intense as the sex facists would have us believe.
Aletheophile 2 years ago
8. The women are usualy shown as being happy, if not enthusiastic or dominant. In fact misogyny may sometimes be a result of sexual frustration in young men which could be alleviated by access to porn. Similarlly access to simulaled child porn may help peadophiles avoid becoming child molesters by providing an alternative outlet for their desires.
Aletheophile 2 years ago
9.Should the antiporn movements take this new data into account and change their positions to accomodate it? Definately. Will they? Definately not.
Aletheophile 2 years ago
While I do agree that pornography depicts women (and some times men, depending on your flavour of porn) in very negative, demeaning light, I think that it is only one factor on how men view women (or women view men, or whatever) during sex. There are hundreds of other factors, including parenting, religious beliefs and personal expereinces, that must be taken into consideration as well. So even if porn is problematic, there are hundreds of other things that are as well that can be equally bad.
RoyalRaspberry 2 years ago
Its either watch porn and masturbate or have sex with someone in person.
Those are the two options. I think that they would have less problem with the first option :)
Inupiatun 2 years ago
I love making amateur porn! What the Bush government did to Max Hardcore was no better than using the Constitution as toilet paper. As long as all parties involved in the porn are willing, there is nothing "obscene". Calling something "obscene" is far too subjective and only ideas with objective criteria belong in law.
Apophiswillkillus 2 years ago
It seems that porn is not a problem. If porn would be a problem, our society would have already collapsed.
About virtual childporn, if we allow fake violence, we should allow fake childporn. Besides, virtual childporn is not new:
Back in the 1980s, in my Junior High School, we had a crudely handdraw cartoon of Lucy and Linus and Linus of Peanuts having sex circulating the school. That was virtual incestuous childporn. " . . . ; there is nothing new under the Sun." -- Ecclesiastes
Walabio 2 years ago
yes, i do see pornography as problematic.
reason is, my penis gets chaffed.
society should do nothing that prevents an individuals right to stupid acts (ie: chaffed penis)
gobblox38 2 years ago
chafed*
gobblox38 2 years ago
@ tbillinger
Well, I see there's a whole range of opinions on what the legal age for viewing of pornography should be. I will concede that 18 may be too high, considering how in most states in the US we already let teenagers at 16 to risk their own lives and that of everyone else's by allowing them to drive and smoke.
dropkicktype 2 years ago
Personally, I've viewed pornography since I was pre-pubescent. Has it harmed me? Not in any amount that is recognizeable. In fact, the pleasure that I recieve from viewing it is, in my opinion, far more benificial than any detriment that it has caused me. Porn also helps me contain my desire for certain sex acts that I would otherwise be more pressing on my sexual partner to perform on me. If anything, women should be happy that guys can distract themselves with porn to give them a break. : )
KwantumPsyentisd 2 years ago
Hi,
This line of reasoning always annoys me, especially when it comes up with conversations with my friends about age restrictions for anything, (video games in particular.) Just because you think you turned out okay doesn't mean that everyone else is going to be so lucky!
I get the feeling that even when this research on effects of pornography matures and actually has something concrete to say, it's still going to be ignored by people who
(continued)
dropkicktype 2 years ago
(continued)
will believe whatever they want to believe.
Consider the weight of scientific consensus on the effects of violence in video games and television. It's one thing to say that adults are free to choose how they want to live--but I've encountered on a handful of occasions where the scientific conclusions were discounted by such statements as, "Well, half of those researchers work for focus groups with a political agenda anyway," or "Well, we know psychology isn't a real science, lol."
dropkicktype 2 years ago
I must also say, I watch porn all the time, and my negative view of women comes from personal experience.
SubtleDemise 2 years ago
Interesting thing about obscenity...The constitution doesn't say anything about excepting obscene material.
SubtleDemise 2 years ago
(cont.) I think the idea is for parents to see the age restriction and realize it may not be appropriate for their child to view such material. It is then the parent's responsibility to set a limit. Even then, it doesn't mean they won't see it. I see the restrictions as being set to cover the producing company. They can now say they have clearly warned of explicit content, and it is not their responsibility to control children, because parents DO have the technological means to filter it out.
incubus022 2 years ago
In my opinon age restrictions are pointless. Not because there is not a reasonable principle to impose such a restriction, but I don't believe that effective at all. We all know, especially on the internet, it is extremely easy to pretend to be something you are not. Most 13 year olds who see something that says you must be 18 to view, are going to say, hmm...I wonder what this is. Now all they have to do is punch in a DOB more than 18 years old and they're in.
incubus022 2 years ago
I shan't respond to all of your questions because my answer to question one is "I don't know." My response to your earlier question concerning how opponents to evidence that pornography is not damaging is that their responses would vary. I expect that Christian fundies, with whom I am most familiar, would simply politicize the findings, deny the results and claim the research was biased, fraudulent, and part of a secular conspiracy to "rob us of our essence" or something.
RHYMEMAIDEN1 2 years ago
Damn! Another great video.
Blingy98 2 years ago
Thanks a lot, Blingy.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
.gov should have no say whatsoever in what a person says, reads, or views. Freedom or nothing.
citizen762 2 years ago
I do think pornography is problematic
I think it is problematic because porn objectifies, both men and women, as objects of gratification. Using a person as a means is always immoral.
As for what society should do about it. I don't know. Personally, I see it just as problematic to censor all forms of pornography as it is to allow it to run rampant.
However, I am certain that we need to protect the younger, adolescent demographic from porn more than we currently do.
insidetrip101 2 years ago
Because, because if horny teenagers see porn, their heads will asplode.
Sex is normal. Men and women have sex. It's interesting and arousing to watch attractive people have sex. Watching attractive people have sex has no real world consequences. Get over it.
atlant80 2 years ago
Go to any of the various free pornographic video services available on the web and tell me if the kind of sex people have in those videos qualifies as normal.
There's a case to be made for the free distribution of pornography, but saying
sex = normal
pornography = people having sex
therefore,
pornography = people behaving normally
is an entirely unconvincing argument.
dropkicktype 2 years ago
Of course porn stars aren't engaging in normal sex. That's why it is entertaining. Black Hawk Down wasn't an accurate depiction of warfare, but it was still very entertaining. There's nothing wrong with pornography.
atlant80 2 years ago
Yes, but we don't allow movie theaters to show Black Hawk Down to just anybody do we? You seem to be suggesting that any kind of age restriction on pornography is misguided--that's a strong statement on the direction public policy should take, and I don't think you've made a convincing case for it.
dropkicktype 2 years ago
I just think teens 14+ should be allowed to watch porn. They already do, and there is absolutely no reason to not allow them to. I think that is complete reasonable, don't you?
atlant80 2 years ago
It sounds reasonable, but I'm a cynic--tell a 14 year old it's okay to watch porn and a 13 year old won't see why the age distinction is so arbitrary. No, better to keep the age restriction at 18 (even 21) as a way of saying, "These are grown up things that you don't understand. Experiment at your peril." If it sounds hypocritical (considering how, as you said, 14 year-olds are watching porn anyway,) then, I'm sorry, that's what I am.
dropkicktype 2 years ago
@dropkicktype
You do have a good point about restrictions on movie theatres.
The way we put ages on things is kind of silly though. Age is afterall an arbitrary number we assign to ourselves based on our rotation around the sun which has no bearing on our real phyiscal or psychological development.
A better way to moderate what children should be watching is by having parents pay attention to the content (movies, games, TV, etc) and censor if they deem necessary. Continued...
tbillinger 2 years ago
"Age is afterall an arbitrary number we assign to ourselves based on our rotation around the sun which has no bearing on our real phyiscal or psychological development."
THANK YOU for giving words to my utter disdain for age discrimination.
KwantumPsyentisd 2 years ago
Cont'd from before...
If you move out of your house at 16 to live on your own which I believe is the "legal age" (ugh) to do so in most places then you should be free to buy and drink alcohol, buy cigarettes, buy/watch porn, go to clubs or anything else that is "age" restricted.
You're old enough to live on your own, you're old enough to make your own decisions in life. Sadly, this doesn't fit with the exploitative nature of the world.
tbillinger 2 years ago
IMO, even if the depictions in porn or violent movies are fictional, that's not always going to be clear to children and even adolescents watching. They may lack the experience to place these depictions in their intended context. If we want them to gain that experience, some kind of sexually challenging material may be necessary in sex education at schools.
Allowing even the possibility that kids may see BDSM, trannies, and rape on a website seems like a irresponsibly laissez-faire attitude.
dropkicktype 2 years ago
I never said their heads will explode. I never said that the consequences are "severe". In actuality, I said that banning pornography would most likely be WORSE than allowing it.
Everything you do has negative consequences. Do we necessarily know what those consequences are? In most cases no. Look, I'm not trying to say that you cannot be a good person and watch porn. What I am saying though, is that it has an inherent nature of objectifying people for gratification.
The real question is...
insidetrip101 2 years ago
would people stop objectifying others if all porn disappeared tomorrow? Probably not.
There really is no way to know if porn has a bad effect on peoples relationships with others. We are dealing with people and MANY MANY different factors come into play other than porn and it is IMPOSSIBLE to isolate porn in such a way.
I'm sorry, using other people to achieve something yourself is inherently wrong, it's immoral. Go read Immanuel Kant, a perfectly secular philosopher who will agree with me.
insidetrip101 2 years ago
I am almost completely satisfied with American's legal approach to pornography. I don't want to see the government involved in the creation of images of any sort, including those that are sexually explicit.
Distribution is another matter. I believe pornography should not be distributed to prepubescent children. This sounds obvious at first but it has implications for a lot of stuff now taken for granted, such as the Tommy Hilfiger billboards in Times Square showing soft-core pics of group sex.
EyeLean5280 2 years ago
Just like all ideas and concepts, pornography can be done in bad ways as well as in good ways, I think. If the goal is to degrade and put down women, it can absolutely do that, but also bear in mind that it can be depicted in a respectful and sometimes rather beautiful way.
So it's not degenerate etc. by definition, and thus it shouldn't be banned all together just because some of it is. Most adults like pornography in some shape or form, and are able to enjoy it in a sensible way.
Bullpuppa 2 years ago
1. Porn hasnt been proven to be particularly harmful,
2. it would be impossible to stop completely, and
3. if you made it illegal, you're inviting potentially dangerous, unscrupulous people into the industry. That's what has happened with drugs, guns and people smuggling.
As with drugs, guns and immigration, it would be much easier to regulate than is to stop completely. In doing so we wouldn't be giving loads of money to potentially dangerous criminals.
eurotrashshow 2 years ago
I don't even agree with the premise that pornography inherently causes any problems. Obviously most of it does, but what about the couples who willfully participate in amateur porn, or gay porn (lesbian or not). But if it was, where are the arguments for bondage where the women dominate, does this further the subordination of all men? But seriously, what I would have society do is stop broadcasting it on TV while calling it commercials or reality tv.
DejectedDegenerate 2 years ago
Those who say that porn degrades women, haven't watched gay porn. Degredation, or role playing (domination-submission), is a part of sex, a part of fantasy, is all about control.Women find porn appealing which displays the female controlling the situation, calling the shots, telling the man what to do. I don't find this degrading, if it were to happen to me, because I'm having sex, and that is the goal of all men, to have sex.
Some women like it rough, or "degrading", others like to watch it.
realoldguy1969 2 years ago
Answers:
1) NO!
2) It's hot! Therefore it's cool! (Meaning Awesome!)
3) Leave well enough alone!
sthebg20 2 years ago
Pharyngula had a bit on this as well.
I recall there was a study that once detailed that 94% of males admitted to masturbating regularly.
Whereupon the authors of the study concluded that 6% of men will lie about anything.
middlekk 2 years ago
Wow. What can I say. If there was anyone who deliberately misconstrues and makes unwarrented assumptions... project much? Where do you get "self righteous" from my replies? And you're starting to wander from the subject. I have a question for *you*... how do *you* define "pornography"? You seem to feel the dictionary is a weapon, but only as a weapon of obfuscation...
RyuDarragh 2 years ago
This is a great topic, thank you. I've had now two different girlfriends who have been vehemently against pornography, both of which were, to varying degrees, concerned over the objectification of women and the idea that if I'm looking at other women, then I'm "not all theirs." Whatever that means. I can definitely see the merits in trying to limit what types (i.e. violent, rape) of pornography are shown, I cannot advocate for censorship though. And I think that's what they're asking for.
Atheocracy888 2 years ago
"I can definitely see the merits in trying to limit what types ...x... are shown, I cannot advocate for censorship though."
Can you see the problem in your edited statement?
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
Absolutely, unfortunately there isn't much space in which to write out a thought. I can see why someone would feel very strongly about some types of pornography, especially that of the more violent nature, but I cannot agree to censor videos that feature two consenting adults engaged in a legal action, even if it is violent or objectifying. Does that clear things up?
Atheocracy888 2 years ago
I suppose... though I honestly see no merit in limiting what information is and isn't available... especially if it is fictitious.
I can see a demand that distribution of certain kinds of information be non-profit exclusive (thereby removing or reducing production incentive) for example... but banning existent information strikes me as a concept without merit and full of danger.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
Alas, I see "the controversy over pornography" as being a topic so broad as to be meaningless. By the time all contributing factors are involved, you will have brought in more unresolved scientific inquiry than could comfortably fit into a 17 volume encyclopedia... and we wouldn't even be touching private opinion or religious dogma (though their effects may be noted).
This topic, at its heart, shoots straight at the most fundamental questions of nature v nurture and liberty ethics... etc
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
parents should tell their children when they are about 10 years old that porn is fake and the acts especially painful ones are not what sex is about
LierreKeithPwned 2 years ago
I think porn is more helpful than problematic. I haven't seen any study done, but I believe that pornography helps reduce the urge of rape in men. Condemning acts like masturbation could be a cause for such urges. Though porn may degrade women, and create fantasy events, it does help in relieving these urges. I still don't approve of the degredation of women, or even anal sex with woman because I personally view it as immoral. But, I still whole support pornography in its many forms.
MorbidRomantic666 2 years ago
i do not view porn as problematic in principle. yes it has the potential to cause discrimination, abuse, misogyny, and other problems, but these are not a given consequence, and the same criticisms could be reasonably argued against capitalism, so.....
gothatfunk 2 years ago
The most egalitarian societies when it comes to gender are the most inundated with pornography. The amount of rape has gone down over the past few decades while the amount and access to porn has increased. I am biological female and I do not view porn as harmful to me.
IronOxideCorset 2 years ago
I laugh at women who say porn is liberating for them. What's so liberating about turning yourself into a "creation" with implants etc. and faking orgasms?
evesrib 2 years ago
1. there are a lot of porn stars without implants etc. I know because they are my favorites.
2. Maybe it's the huge paycheck they get that is liberating. I hear that out earning 90% of all men really gets the girls going.
choupick 2 years ago
Well if they find it liberating being puppeted by a male dominated industry.....
And I have never seen a mainstream porn "star" that hasn't had surgery of some sort . They all go get waxed, implanted, liposucked, and as I said "etc."
evesrib 2 years ago
Yeah the women are puppets, just like the strippers that made several hundreds of dollars a night while I made minimum wage bouncing. I have several good friends that are now pilots or medical professionals because of porn/stripping. I think you need to produce some evidence for your assertions.
And if all the porn stars you see are waxed, implanted, and liposucked it is probably a reflection on society not porn. However, I have not problem finding porn that is nothing like you describe.
choupick 2 years ago
Well if you think it is ok to do anything at all because you make a lot of money doing it, then fine. You can go kill people too. It's ironic that you are in such denial with regards to what porn is and what women are expected to look like. It is also ironic that you seem to think you are well-researched on the topic, considering the majority of women in porn are of low socio-economic status, including one of my own friends who was desperate for money.
evesrib 2 years ago
If you think consenting adults having sex on camera is the same as killing people for money, you are dumber than I thought. I worked as a bouncer at a strip club and met many porn stars and they seemed to enjoy making tons of money every night off of guys. The guys enjoyed it too. Two happy parties exchanging money. Quick we better make it illegal. I don't know anything about your "friend" but I'm guessing porn wasn't the root of her problems.
choupick 2 years ago
Furthermore the real issue is that your opinion isn't based on research or evidence. You are just trying to force your own bronze age morals on everyone else because you aren't allowed to have fun. So, unless you have more than anecdotal evidence that porn is harmful, zip it. Hell, maybe you should even check some out. Maybe you would be less uptight.
btw I kill people for money, but don't worry it's government sanctioned so its OK!
choupick 2 years ago