Global warming is a Huge Issue because they Keep Pounding it into your head untill it becomes FACT.. Agian its about Energy Control Of the people of the world.. Green enerrgy is a Cover For a Global Energy SWIPE by the ELITE.. Billions will end up dieing. because everyone is going along with it
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. The natural gas was converted into hydrogen. Splitting water by electrolysis also produces hydrogen. The fuel is the same, the source is different.
@DrTurf83 I do clearly know what I'm talking about. You obviously do not know what I'm talking about.. HHO.. brown's gas...and you stated what I meant.. ."Splitting water by electrolysis also produces hydrogen. The fuel is the same, the source is different." That is what I just said, so you got it, but didn't get it? So why argue to agree?
The difference lies in where the energy is actually coming from. Natural gas is a fuel, and can be used directly to produce power in a high temperature fuel cell. Water is not a fuel; however, energy can be stored using water and electrolysis by making hydrogen gas. The problem is that you need to input energy in order to use water. You do not need to do this with natural gas.
Global warming is a crock of shit. IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY. Technology like this should be developed so the mainstream consumer doesn't have to spend $5 a gallon for bullshit oil price speculation. I wish the world would run out of oil so we would be forced to use WATER. CARS CAN RUN ON WATER ALONE.
The public needs to be aware of UTC Power/United Technologies Corporations illegal behavior. In particular, attempting to provoke this caring and devoted father into committing suicide over my child care issues and then conspiring to obstruct justice in federal court against not only me, but in addition 4 other litigants/former UTC employees. Please check out my You Tube videos to find my genuine court documents.
They used natural gas and reformed it internally, so it is likely a SOFC and not a PEMFC. 700 ºF is too cold for an SOFC to operate (typically, they run around 700-1000 ºC).
The time has come for Free energy to be revealed ,But Millions are spend in supressing that information,if you want a real Free energy Magnet Motor, get the blueprints at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Start the revolution!
I have a query. My simplistic understanding physics informs me that work is only done when energy transfers from one form to another and that there are always significant losses when this transfer takes place. If you can use hydrgen to produce electricity usinga fuel cell in a car, wy not burn the hydrogen directly in an internal combustion car engine cutting out one of the transfer processes?
@eddie123e A combustion reaction produces only heat (such as an internal combustion engine), and the devices are limited by the Carnot efficiency.
A fuel cell is an electrochemical device, which directly converts fuel and an oxidizer into electric energy without combustion. This allows for much higher efficiencies than a conventional ICE engine
@getsafe1212 Thank for taking the trouble to respond to my question. I have a superficial understanding of Carnot efficiency only. You say that IC produces only heat - is it not the expansion of the gases that gives kinetic energy and not simply the heat. I appreciate that I am ignorant about the process but I am left with the idea of hydrogen via reverse electrolyis to electricicty to kinetic as opposed to hydrogen via combustion to kinetic which seems a one step shorter route?
@eddie123e A combustion reaction doesn't specifically produce heat, but when analyzing internal comb. engines, we assume that it's only a thermal process. Kinetic energy is a convenient construct like temperature, you should look at the basic chemistry and physics.
A fuel cell can convert H2 and O2 to H20 without combustion. The reactions are separated on either side of an electrolyte, such that the electrons must go through an external circuit, thus producing useful electric energy.
The guy in the beginning really needs to shave his beard. he is freaking me out. he looks like Nick Berg, the guy that got his head cut of by Al-Qaeda. Plus it scares me that a guy with that much of a beard can sound like a girl. he reminds me of that girl that posed as a male in the movie boys don't cry.. except she didn't need a beard and she was more manly then him. Just my 2 cents. Later people.
I've got a question related to the video. The "stack" that is discussed. What is the size of it? Or on what Amp is the stack working so I can calculate that?
Would be very much appriciated.
This is for my project, but its quite hard to find information about this subject. We have to develope a solution to deliver electricity during the night at a solar powerplant. So we decided to electrolyse water and store the H2 and O2 so we can use a fuel cell to generate electricity during the night.
@Carlosenzone Some of the best solid oxide fuel cells approach 2 watts/cm^2, you do the math. It just depends on how large of stack you wish to build. You can assume a 1mm pitch between cells. so a 1mx1mx1m stack would produce 20MW
@a1mint When the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow, energy storage is useful. It doesn't make sense to build batteries on a large scale, but hydrogen storage is promising.
Yes, fuel cells are much more efficient than conventional energy generation (ICE connected to generator). 90% efficient vs. 35%
@a1mint A fuel cell converts chemical energy directly to electrical energy. HHO is a bunch of BS, of course it would decrease efficiency. There use of the term electrolyzer is not wrong however. For instance, an SOFC (solid oxide fuel cell) is an SOEC (solid oxide electrolysis cell) when it is ran in reverse.
Your last comment was about energy storage, not HHO
@a1mint "The HHO world (whatever that means), like to use this term as an electrolyzer, which is an incorrect improper use of the term." It sounded like you were talking about electrolyzer, not fuel cell.
HHO was a semi-scientific term referring to a stoichiometric mixture of H2 and O2 (2H2+O2 --> 2H2O), but the "HHO" car people hijacked the term, so now I just associate it with bullshit
Each house should have a mini hydrogen power plant that electrolyzes water using solar or wind - so that it is self-sufficient. Who the fuck needs a grid?
Why can't they take the 700 degree air, pass it through that same heat exchanger and heat water to boiling and create steam to turn a turbine and create even more energy?
It would make more sense to produce the electricity at a central power plant and distribute it through wires.
The only reason these types of products, just like the Bloom Box, are currently making business sense, is because elecricity produced from fossil fuels is less costly than buying electricity from the grid.
And that works well in California, because deregulation tripled the price of electricity.
@a1mint --- Do you realize how much energy is wasted in those transmission lines? No it makes more sense for people to make the energy they need at their own homes, or at least small community based facilities. Also the power could be made from renewable sources like biofuels...
@BlackDogSociety Transmission lines use higher voltages to reduce the amount of wastage. But sure, there is a loss. Do you know what the numbers are. Is there a percentage number that you're aware of?
Biofuels are too costly. Especially the ones suitable for fuel cells.
@a1mint --- I can agree that the distribution losses may not be that big of deal, especially considering that system is already in place, but any reduction in losses would be a good thing. As far as using a bio-fuel source I was thinking of the water gas shift and Fischer-Tropsch methods of syngas reformation as a fuel source for these cells. visit verdereformation com... The costs associated here would be less than using fossil fuels...
@BlackDogSociety You don't exactly have a whole lot of credibility when making claims. The whole HHO perpetual motion and wacky unsubstantiated crap that was flying around our ears didn't exactly place you in the scientific corner...
I can see right away on that website you just quoted: "I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel..." rriigghhtt, that's pretty wacky. We all know water can not be a fuel.
Fuelcells are great for small scale but on a large scale we need Natural Gas in the short term followed by more Fission nuclear power mid term and Fusion power long term
Global warming is fake you sheep!!!! LOL the temperature of the earth has not increased since 1997...actauly fact from research not made up shit from east anglia...
There's a problem with this. Natural gas is methane, CH4; one carbon atom and 4 hydrogen atoms. A hydrogen molecule is 2 hydrogen atoms, so you get 2 molecules of hydrogen from one molecule of methane. The only problem is the carbon atom. Guess what? The carbon atom combines with an oxygen atom (O2) from the air to produce CO2. You get the same amount of emissions as if you burned it. You recover more of the energy in the methane than if i was burned, but fuel cells make it extremely expensive.
The CO2 that comes out of this is pretty pure, not random other stuff with it. Which makes it VERY easy to sequester/get rid of. Coal plants have mostly other stuff as an output, with CO2 mixed in there liberally, making it much more difficult.
when it comes to renewable energy, we're basicly all screwed. all energy comes from the sun, whether solar or wind (caused by uneven heating of the earth). we can't build enough windmills and solar plants to support such a large population. even with biofuels, geothermal and hydroelectric (which i guess isn't from the sun, but still not plentious enough) it's all a drop in the bucket. we've over expanded on fossil fuels, eventualy, there's nothing we can do. ppl will have to die off.
@canadaguy2112ca Fuel Cells can run on natural gas, biogas, such as digester gas from wastewater treatment and food processing plants, propane, diesal fuel, ethonol, coal gas, and other hydrocarbons.
that little solar thing in the beginning made me think...why not make wind turbines with solar panels for that extra little energy, that is if cost did not outweigh the amount needed?
Afford? Hmm. The US loves it's patents, so the cost goes up right there, next is the exorbitant pay demanded by US employees who make these things (nobody works for free and the US workers weekly take home is just below the annual income of a rural botswanian native), and lastly comes the exotic fabricated materials used in these designs which are uncommon in 3rd world countries.
Nobody can 'AFFORD' these things, you either have or you do not have the money for these new developments.
Not yet, but things do decrease in cost as time goes by. I was not talking about the near future, but more as the far future. Plus I feel as rich countrys, we should have a dutie of helping the poorer countrys, first it's the right thing to do, plus by helping others, it does come back in a loop and help you as well, (if I need to feed people selfish desires as well), if you think logically and unemotionally about it. Personally, I'm totaly for any development in allternative energy.
But the other way is to keep using oil and fossil fuel to it runs out, or gets more expensive and not care, as it suites us at the moment. Personally I find that raver short sighted, plus a tad selfish as well. People might not care, but you usally find, later or sooner, that crap starts to hit the fan. Alternative fuels could later on lead to cheaper fuel, less enviromental problems and a country been more independent for it self, there well worth developing :).
Very cool technology, now all to be done is to improve it and make it cheaper. Plus makes sure every corner of the planet can produce large amounts of energy, very cleanly and very cheaply as well.
We need to learn to harness the power of flatulence. In fact, just last night, I'm sure I expelled enough foul smelling gas to power downtown Manhattan for at least ten minutes. I envision a day when everyone will fart in unity and harmony and produce clean (well, sort of) renewable energy. I am sure this would please Andy.
To simplify the situation just all that needs to be done is use some low current electrolosis on some tap water like using stainless steel plates and 12 volt dc and in return you get HHO... 2 parts Pure Hydrogen with 1 Part Oxygen...You burn that you get 3000+ flame...just run a huge Generator (Engine) or Gas Turbine Engine and convert the torque to a generator...Fuck Heads!!..and guess what all the waste you get is WATER VAPOUR...H20
you can make it completely clean if you want to pretty easily... solar+wind+hydroelectric etc... provides power to electrolyze water, the H2 from that is then used to power these with O2 from the air which gives abundant electricity.
Also Fusion power is beginning to rear its head, its not ready for full scale testing yet but its getting better all the time, the energy from that would be far in advance of anything we have today and the byproduct is helium... which is inert.
All due respect, but they just want to sell all the natural gas that is abundant in the northern regions of Canada and Russia. No-one seems to care about the evironment or efficency, they just want to lead you to another "feul" that they can charge you for.
yeah, but the point is that you can power it with hydrogen from anything... if you wanted to you could power it with water, you would just need a boron catalyst to split the water...
He mentioned that heat, and g, if he just dumped some water in there, it may just prove to be some interesting results:
Commercial bulk hydrogen is usually produced by the steam reforming of natural gas. At high temperatures (700--1100 °C), steam (H2O) reacts with methane (CH4) to yield syngas. CH4 + H2O → CO + 3 H2 - 191.7 kJ/mol
I'm not sure what temp H20 turns to HH O but I believe I've heard about 800..
Y its many years from now? We need better ways of getting lots of Hydrogen.Y? 99% of hydrogen we get today produce Co2.So whats the point.There looking for ways to produce Hydrogen with out free up Co2.
Chernobyl could never happen on a Western reactor. ? you kidding andyplace. you think god owns the nuclear power plants in the west:)/ accidents are not limited to communist countries. It's wild that these guys could make such use of hydrogen but cannot plice the tape or narrate it outside the plant without the racket. ;PLEASE give us some credit.
In order to use fuel cells, you must first aquire Hydrogen. They specified using landfill gas and electrolisis as future sources of hydrogen. I would advocate using landfill gas as using electrolisis would require more energy than you would get out of it, energy that could be put directly into the power grid.
The people that control the energy market need a system that allows them to CHARGE people for energy (be that oil, electricity, gas, solar, wind, tidal, or any other generating process). We CAN produce H from water. This process could be next-to-free to everyone. The PROBLEM in a capitalist system is that this IS FREE(or nearly). WE CAN GET THIS ENERGY FOR FREE!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST THIS IS DRIVING ME MAD.
the system of capitalism is only 150yr old and look how it's fucked EARTH
There is no such thing as free energy. You can make hydrogen from water - but that electricity needs to come from somewhere. You can't produce hydrogen with electricity to use to make electricity. Actually, you can, but only at 40% efficiency, which is a complete waste and pointless.
the enegy produced could be used to create any of the carrying mediums such as hydrogen from electrolysis, hydrocarbons from hydrogenation of coal under the old German patent, or the use of electric motors.
I found at the time that this type of hydro electric generation would be sufficient to power the continental "U S" in in its entirety with the erection of 50 such unit strategically located around the seaboard of the country.
continued, the system is faultless and the cost per kilowatt is extremely low when you consider the cost of the original capital versus the power generated from the system.
My calculation at the time was such that every city bordering the ocean say like New york, would be served by a series of barges that would only occupy 50 acres of the ocean in some circumspect but well studied area.
The numbers are staggering but heap oil made the whole idea useless at the time.
My favorite is Hydro electric because you get to use 18th century technology to generated electricity with the new materials available. I put together a system in 1964 while at Hardwicke Chemical co. The system comprised of a series of barges that would be installed into towers erected in the ocean that would utilize the wave motion to power hydrolic pumps that would turn turbines that would produce electricity.....
i have read all the mail concerning this issue of producing Hydrogen from water through electrolysis. It is evident that you need a whole lot of electric enegy to get hydrogen. electricity is not cheap and will be more and more expensive in the future.
We will need more power generated by either wind,direct photocell and hydro electric.
The people that propose the solution are the problem. Nuclear is the answer. It alway's has been. Because of the opposition we have not built any new plants and Coal is the most nasty
nuclear would be good if there wasnt the minor problem of a massively toxic waste and the posability of another Chernobyl... hydrogen is the answer, along with solar and wind and such
Just crack the water and you have HOH (brown gas)for fuel and it burns clean. Why Nuclear? Which is more dangerous to operate and which one that produce no waste?
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The easiest way to obtain hydrogen is through pyrolysis. It converts all organic materials (waste, tires,hazardous waste, etc.) into hydrogen and carbon black.
You get paid for the disposal of the ingoing material and get paid for the material produced.
The most efficient method of heating the vessel during pyrolysis by using a plasma torch INSIDE the vessel.
hydrolysis is actually the most efficient way to produce hydrogen. on an atomic level you have less waste. All you are putting in is electric current which can be obtained fairly cheap, plasma on the other hand requires HUGE amounts of electricity and heat to generate.
In pyrolysis the goal is not just to produce hydrogen but the dispose of immense quantities of waste material clogging the earth, such as any organic waste, tires, hazardous waste, poison gasses, etc. By using a plasma flame inside the vessel reduces the need to heat the vessel, thus reducing the need for excessive energy input. Burning hydrogen to produce electricity results in a very favorable energy balance plus the advantage of profitably disposing and destroying organic waste.
I'm not a chemist so excuse me if this is a dumb idea, but could'nt hydrogen be generated (and later harnessed) by simple elctrolysis of water? I think that is the thing that has always fascinated me about fuel cells, the notion that, on the surface at least, hydrogen seems so readily available and affordable.
The U.S Government will stop you. They want you controlled, dead or poor and as long as they monopolize you with their inferior technologies and decades old dependency on oil, they will do everything they can to stop it. Why? Because too many politicians stand to loose billions if people stopped using oil. So at the expense of the public we loose.
as an engineer i,m surprised at you. running green on a limited basis is perfectable under many different circumstances. however when you look at the normal every day energy neends for just the asa, nevermind the rest of the rapidlt growing 3rd world,doube it,will be workable.the fraud on carbon futures is laughable right now bobbyr
Andy, Thanks for the excellent insight on CSU's reforming fuel cell at Northridge. These fuel cell types will play an important role in the inevitable transition from natural gas to hydrogen in the coming years as wind farms begin to supplement depleting natural gas supplies with renewable hydrogen produced from off-peak or stranded wind resources.
Well, I've been interested in hydrogen energy since Ben Bova, through an editorial in "Analog", turned me on to the idea in 1975. The breakthroughs in hydrogen storage, production and fuel cell efficiency that are occurring weekly now indicate an earlier culmination than previously forseen. You can see that today I am pretty interested in the political barriers by visiting my web site.
To clarify something, if you're worried about fossil fuels... molten carbonate fuel cells can use a variety of fuel sources. You do not need pure gaseous hydrogen as is with PEM (proton exchange membrane) fuel cells. The fuel source(s) for the cell stack, whether it be some kind of hydrogen rich organic, natural gas, or whatever, is internally reformed beucase of the high temperatues and potent lithium or sodium salt electrolytes/catalysts. Thank you chemical engineering.
in fact they they don't BURN anything, depending on what kinda fuel cells they are.
And in this case, they get their natural gas and reform it. Its a process called steam reformation, no combustions ever happens. these types of fuel cells work exclusively by electrochemical reactions
Despite the description, fuel cell commercial power generation CANNOT replace fossil fuel dependance.
Hydrogen from water is only about 50-70% efficient. The fuel cells convert about 30-40% of this hydrogen energy back into electricity. Such a plant would recover 10-23% of the electricity needed to feul it.
In order to produce power, such a large-scale plant would still need to produce hydrogen from fossil fuels (like this one does), where gas is reacted with water to form H2 and CO.
Power Plants don't run on gasoline. A coal/ng powerplant can have up to 60% efficiency, and nuclear currently reaches 50%. Once Natural gas supplies delcine (around 2030), wind, tidal, solar, geo, methane, nuclear and coal will be the only 'root' technologies available. Vehicles will likely be hydrogen, but it will be based off of these 'roots'.
How is natural gas just turned into hydrogen? doesnt the natural gas have to run some sort of generator to produce electricity to get remove the hydrogen from the water? I dont see how that could be any more efficient than just using electricity until you can produce electricity with wind or solar to remove the hydrogen from the water.I could be wrong but thats how I thought it worked.
That's an excellent question. I had to look There are two natural gas reformer technologies — autothermal reforming (ATR) and steam methane reforming (SMR). Both methods work by exposing natural gas to a catalyst (usually nickel) at high temperature and pressure.
I'm not sure which of the two reforming technologies this power plant uses, the key point is that the only external inputs of energy you would need (and I'm not sure that you even need external inputs) is to heat and pressurize the natural gas.
I recently checked out your website, andyposner org Very professional. I hope you don't mind if I share this video as part of a presentation I am doing. Maybe we can set up a day and time so I can interview you as well. Thanks.
Wow! I was blown away by the information in this website. Excellent Job. I am now eager to check out this at California State Northridge. By the way, do you have a website?
I am working on the fuel cell project at CSUN, and we get well over 65% efficiency and the fuel cell is not running at full speed. After the fuel cell is finished we will be at around 83% efficiency in combined power and we will be using almost all the by products that the fuel cell produces. There are no pollutants produced and the CO2 levels that are released are very small compared to coal burning plants.
please go into depth about hydrogen and fuel cells to power our homes and cars. I would love to learn more and how I can get in contact with Bill Sullivan
Thank you for your comment pleabargain. I too was amazed by the heat recovery and efficiency of the plant. Which specific seconds/minutes of the video did you want to comment on?
Hey andy! I think that I accidentally clicked on 3 out of 5 instead of 5/5, which I think the video deserves. So I'll tell my friends to compensate.
Great film. I didn't know that hydrogen was being used in any way to make energy yet. Congratulations on your second video! It looks much more elaborate and professional than the Egyptian one! Great job!
Lastly, I should add that I greatly enjoyed seeing how the power plant is not only generating electricty, but also hot water, and I was thrilled to learn that they have plans to sequester the CO2 in a sub-tropical greenhouse. It is heartening to know this sort of advanced work is being done.
I think a lot of people are unaware that there are already hydrogen cars and power plants, and that there are already electric cars available on the market. The technology is here: let's put it to use!
Thank you for sharing this video. I am excited to see that these sorts of technologies have gone beyond the experimental phase and are actually being built and used commercially.
Global warming is a Huge Issue because they Keep Pounding it into your head untill it becomes FACT.. Agian its about Energy Control Of the people of the world.. Green enerrgy is a Cover For a Global Energy SWIPE by the ELITE.. Billions will end up dieing. because everyone is going along with it
adam3176 2 months ago
ran off natural gas???? Idiots! Use water! Split the molecule!
SaveAmericaFightNWO 7 months ago
@SaveAmericaFightNWO
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. The natural gas was converted into hydrogen. Splitting water by electrolysis also produces hydrogen. The fuel is the same, the source is different.
DrTurf83 3 months ago
@DrTurf83 I do clearly know what I'm talking about. You obviously do not know what I'm talking about.. HHO.. brown's gas...and you stated what I meant.. ."Splitting water by electrolysis also produces hydrogen. The fuel is the same, the source is different." That is what I just said, so you got it, but didn't get it? So why argue to agree?
SaveAmericaFightNWO 3 months ago
@SaveAmericaFightNWO
The difference lies in where the energy is actually coming from. Natural gas is a fuel, and can be used directly to produce power in a high temperature fuel cell. Water is not a fuel; however, energy can be stored using water and electrolysis by making hydrogen gas. The problem is that you need to input energy in order to use water. You do not need to do this with natural gas.
DrTurf83 3 months ago
@SaveAmericaFightNWO
calling these people idiots is simply inappropriate and incorrect.
DrTurf83 3 months ago
Global warming is a crock of shit. IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY. Technology like this should be developed so the mainstream consumer doesn't have to spend $5 a gallon for bullshit oil price speculation. I wish the world would run out of oil so we would be forced to use WATER. CARS CAN RUN ON WATER ALONE.
ridewhitehorse 9 months ago
@ridewhitehorse "Global Warming is a crock of shit" yeah stupid, totally ignore scientific data that says otherwise.
indegruv 9 months ago
The is the Power of Now and the Future.
donicwolf 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The public needs to be aware of UTC Power/United Technologies Corporations illegal behavior. In particular, attempting to provoke this caring and devoted father into committing suicide over my child care issues and then conspiring to obstruct justice in federal court against not only me, but in addition 4 other litigants/former UTC employees. Please check out my You Tube videos to find my genuine court documents.
silvertiger333 9 months ago
Oh and by the way it runs at 700C, not 700F. So it would be around 1800 Degrees F.
ChimpFromSpace 10 months ago
@ChimpFromSpace how do you know that. he never gave units.
abobjenkins 3 months ago
@abobjenkins
They used natural gas and reformed it internally, so it is likely a SOFC and not a PEMFC. 700 ºF is too cold for an SOFC to operate (typically, they run around 700-1000 ºC).
DrTurf83 3 months ago
@ChimpFromSpace I work for them lol
ChimpFromSpace 3 months ago
Was just hired by FuelCell Energy. I am very excite!!
ChimpFromSpace 11 months ago
i love your voice, just like tweety
ijash1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The time has come for Free energy to be revealed ,But Millions are spend in supressing that information,if you want a real Free energy Magnet Motor, get the blueprints at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Start the revolution!
breeannaqktjbl 1 year ago
T0PFlLM agrees liquid hydrogen is cool or very cold. Electric car recharge ?
PlanetFIX 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Free Energy is real and its here but the coverup is strong, if u are interested in a REAL free energy machine then
just go to LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM and download the blueprints ,it is probably the ONLY working magnet
motor out there. Join the free energy revolution!!
lavernedi 1 year ago
They cant Hide, and Cheat people NO MORE, because there are GOOD PEOPLE who are working Like you to get the INFORMATION OUT.....
Thank you for This Video....:-)
Ebdan88 1 year ago
I have a query. My simplistic understanding physics informs me that work is only done when energy transfers from one form to another and that there are always significant losses when this transfer takes place. If you can use hydrgen to produce electricity usinga fuel cell in a car, wy not burn the hydrogen directly in an internal combustion car engine cutting out one of the transfer processes?
eddie123e 1 year ago
@eddie123e A combustion reaction produces only heat (such as an internal combustion engine), and the devices are limited by the Carnot efficiency.
A fuel cell is an electrochemical device, which directly converts fuel and an oxidizer into electric energy without combustion. This allows for much higher efficiencies than a conventional ICE engine
getsafe1212 1 year ago
@getsafe1212 Thank for taking the trouble to respond to my question. I have a superficial understanding of Carnot efficiency only. You say that IC produces only heat - is it not the expansion of the gases that gives kinetic energy and not simply the heat. I appreciate that I am ignorant about the process but I am left with the idea of hydrogen via reverse electrolyis to electricicty to kinetic as opposed to hydrogen via combustion to kinetic which seems a one step shorter route?
eddie123e 1 year ago
@eddie123e A combustion reaction doesn't specifically produce heat, but when analyzing internal comb. engines, we assume that it's only a thermal process. Kinetic energy is a convenient construct like temperature, you should look at the basic chemistry and physics.
A fuel cell can convert H2 and O2 to H20 without combustion. The reactions are separated on either side of an electrolyte, such that the electrons must go through an external circuit, thus producing useful electric energy.
getsafe1212 1 year ago
@getsafe1212 Thank you.
eddie123e 1 year ago
Nice project but this is only a small step towards clean energy. Using gas as your source is not the way forward.
forzascalea 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"its powered by hydrogen, try, yknow... watching the video!"
this ones powered by natural gas. why don't you try watching the video. wow.
graigsmith 1 year ago
@shaveurbeardplease lmao even tho u are a idiot
shaveurbeardplease 1 year ago
The guy in the beginning really needs to shave his beard. he is freaking me out. he looks like Nick Berg, the guy that got his head cut of by Al-Qaeda. Plus it scares me that a guy with that much of a beard can sound like a girl. he reminds me of that girl that posed as a male in the movie boys don't cry.. except she didn't need a beard and she was more manly then him. Just my 2 cents. Later people.
shaveurbeardplease 1 year ago
I'd like to know how your plant is being powered, like if you're just trading vehicle gas combustion for the local power plant's coal combustion...
MasterVastus 1 year ago
@MasterVastus its powered by hydrogen, try, yknow... watching the video!
Pateraak1423 1 year ago
I've got a question related to the video. The "stack" that is discussed. What is the size of it? Or on what Amp is the stack working so I can calculate that?
Would be very much appriciated.
This is for my project, but its quite hard to find information about this subject. We have to develope a solution to deliver electricity during the night at a solar powerplant. So we decided to electrolyse water and store the H2 and O2 so we can use a fuel cell to generate electricity during the night.
Carlosenzone 1 year ago
@Carlosenzone Some of the best solid oxide fuel cells approach 2 watts/cm^2, you do the math. It just depends on how large of stack you wish to build. You can assume a 1mm pitch between cells. so a 1mx1mx1m stack would produce 20MW
getsafe1212 1 year ago
"or else it will be electrolyzed using wind, solar, geothermal, wave or hydroelectric energy..."
Don't these sources already produce electricity? No point in converting electricity to hydrogen and then back to electricity again...
Or would it serve to be able to store and buffer energy, in a way that's more efficient than using batteries?
Second question: Is this setup more efficient than using a generator to generate electricity by burning the natural gas?
a1mint 1 year ago
@a1mint When the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow, energy storage is useful. It doesn't make sense to build batteries on a large scale, but hydrogen storage is promising.
Yes, fuel cells are much more efficient than conventional energy generation (ICE connected to generator). 90% efficient vs. 35%
getsafe1212 1 year ago
@getsafe1212
First off, be careful when you say "fuel cell". The official term is used for a converter that converts hydrogen directly to electricity.
The HHO world (whatever that means), like to use this term as an electrolyzer, which is an incorrect improper use of the term.
Second. Electricity to HHO through electrolyzer, then burn in ICE and drive generator is *VERY* inefficient. Like much worse than 35% even.
a1mint 1 year ago
@a1mint A fuel cell converts chemical energy directly to electrical energy. HHO is a bunch of BS, of course it would decrease efficiency. There use of the term electrolyzer is not wrong however. For instance, an SOFC (solid oxide fuel cell) is an SOEC (solid oxide electrolysis cell) when it is ran in reverse.
Your last comment was about energy storage, not HHO
getsafe1212 1 year ago
@getsafe1212 My point was that the HHO world is abusing the term fuel cell because they think it sounds suave.
a1mint 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@a1mint "The HHO world (whatever that means), like to use this term as an electrolyzer, which is an incorrect improper use of the term." It sounded like you were talking about electrolyzer, not fuel cell.
HHO was a semi-scientific term referring to a stoichiometric mixture of H2 and O2 (2H2+O2 --> 2H2O), but the "HHO" car people hijacked the term, so now I just associate it with bullshit
getsafe1212 1 year ago
What is the net energy gain in the system? How much do the fuel cells cost?
bigpchamber 1 year ago
Cost?
asas2jh 1 year ago
we should blow it up then blame it on afganistan
ecfnw85 1 year ago
Each house should have a mini hydrogen power plant that electrolyzes water using solar or wind - so that it is self-sufficient. Who the fuck needs a grid?
DimitrisMPapadakis 1 year ago
Can the fuel cell be powered by hydrogen from biomass gasifier?
TogieTung 1 year ago
@TogieTung yes, hydrogen is the easiest fuel to run a cell on, no coking (carbon deposits which clog cells) problems like hydrocarbons
getsafe1212 1 year ago
Why can't they take the 700 degree air, pass it through that same heat exchanger and heat water to boiling and create steam to turn a turbine and create even more energy?
sspiega 1 year ago
@sspiega I would recommend stirling generator engine to be powered by waste heat.
TogieTung 1 year ago
@TogieTung Most of the waste heat is used to preheat the fuel and for reforming in combine systems, which this most likely is
getsafe1212 1 year ago
It would make more sense to produce the electricity at a central power plant and distribute it through wires.
The only reason these types of products, just like the Bloom Box, are currently making business sense, is because elecricity produced from fossil fuels is less costly than buying electricity from the grid.
And that works well in California, because deregulation tripled the price of electricity.
What a mess.
a1mint 1 year ago
@a1mint --- Do you realize how much energy is wasted in those transmission lines? No it makes more sense for people to make the energy they need at their own homes, or at least small community based facilities. Also the power could be made from renewable sources like biofuels...
BlackDogSociety 1 year ago
@BlackDogSociety Transmission lines use higher voltages to reduce the amount of wastage. But sure, there is a loss. Do you know what the numbers are. Is there a percentage number that you're aware of?
Biofuels are too costly. Especially the ones suitable for fuel cells.
a1mint 1 year ago
@BlackDogSociety Wikipedia, Electric_power_transmission
"Transmission and distribution losses in the USA were estimated at 7.2% in 1995"
I realize now how low that was. Things have probably even improved since then too.
a1mint 1 year ago
@a1mint --- I can agree that the distribution losses may not be that big of deal, especially considering that system is already in place, but any reduction in losses would be a good thing. As far as using a bio-fuel source I was thinking of the water gas shift and Fischer-Tropsch methods of syngas reformation as a fuel source for these cells. visit verdereformation com... The costs associated here would be less than using fossil fuels...
BlackDogSociety 1 year ago
@BlackDogSociety You don't exactly have a whole lot of credibility when making claims. The whole HHO perpetual motion and wacky unsubstantiated crap that was flying around our ears didn't exactly place you in the scientific corner...
I can see right away on that website you just quoted: "I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel..." rriigghhtt, that's pretty wacky. We all know water can not be a fuel.
a1mint 1 year ago
@BlackDogSociety As for biofuels, it remains very costly. Ethanol production yields disappointing results. Bio oils are too thick.
One thing that might be interesting is biodiesels and cars equiped with diesel engines. If only people would become less obsessed with horsepower....
Why is that arrogant cocky VW company the only one producing them... expensive too.
a1mint 1 year ago
Shave and cut your hair!
DenRotlose 1 year ago
WTF I want one for MY home
xuj22 1 year ago
i guess when Oklahoma gas and electric said they canceled all new gas fired and coal plants they meant it.
datzfast 1 year ago
Fuelcells are great for small scale but on a large scale we need Natural Gas in the short term followed by more Fission nuclear power mid term and Fusion power long term
any thing else is just throwing away money
Elios0000 1 year ago
talk about shitting your money away, large power plants loose 30 percent just in transmission losses. Put a fuel cell in my house please.
datzfast 1 year ago 11
still need to get the H2 from some were and that means ether water or oil
and with Fusion who cares how much you lose
Elios0000 1 year ago
Interesting energy, I hear its really volotile though......
VitaminsAndPiss 2 years ago
have they thought about insulating the heat exhaust piping to retain more heat for recovery?
highferret 2 years ago
Global warming is fake you sheep!!!! LOL the temperature of the earth has not increased since 1997...actauly fact from research not made up shit from east anglia...
aurick7737 2 years ago
There's a problem with this. Natural gas is methane, CH4; one carbon atom and 4 hydrogen atoms. A hydrogen molecule is 2 hydrogen atoms, so you get 2 molecules of hydrogen from one molecule of methane. The only problem is the carbon atom. Guess what? The carbon atom combines with an oxygen atom (O2) from the air to produce CO2. You get the same amount of emissions as if you burned it. You recover more of the energy in the methane than if i was burned, but fuel cells make it extremely expensive.
benjwgarner 2 years ago
The CO2 that comes out of this is pretty pure, not random other stuff with it. Which makes it VERY easy to sequester/get rid of. Coal plants have mostly other stuff as an output, with CO2 mixed in there liberally, making it much more difficult.
jjdiaz7 1 year ago
when it comes to renewable energy, we're basicly all screwed. all energy comes from the sun, whether solar or wind (caused by uneven heating of the earth). we can't build enough windmills and solar plants to support such a large population. even with biofuels, geothermal and hydroelectric (which i guess isn't from the sun, but still not plentious enough) it's all a drop in the bucket. we've over expanded on fossil fuels, eventualy, there's nothing we can do. ppl will have to die off.
creamyfilling102 2 years ago
his voice soo doesn't match his body
TenorKid3 2 years ago 3
So you still need natural gas....you just don't burn it. Natural gas reserves are high but finite.
canadaguy2112ca 2 years ago
then every fart can be sold.
datzfast 1 year ago
@canadaguy2112ca Fuel Cells can run on natural gas, biogas, such as digester gas from wastewater treatment and food processing plants, propane, diesal fuel, ethonol, coal gas, and other hydrocarbons.
ChimpFromSpace 11 months ago
mmmmna -- Nobody can 'AFFORD' these things, you either have or you do not have the money for these new developments.
fukalotfukalot 2 years ago
that little solar thing in the beginning made me think...why not make wind turbines with solar panels for that extra little energy, that is if cost did not outweigh the amount needed?
Jimbo282 2 years ago
Close your eyes and listen to the guy in the beginning doesn't he sound like a women.
vkgoku2012 2 years ago 2
As make sure every coner of the planet can afford it and use it. It's going to take everyone to solve the global issue.....
234566tgvb 2 years ago
Afford? Hmm. The US loves it's patents, so the cost goes up right there, next is the exorbitant pay demanded by US employees who make these things (nobody works for free and the US workers weekly take home is just below the annual income of a rural botswanian native), and lastly comes the exotic fabricated materials used in these designs which are uncommon in 3rd world countries.
Nobody can 'AFFORD' these things, you either have or you do not have the money for these new developments.
mmmmna 2 years ago
Not yet, but things do decrease in cost as time goes by. I was not talking about the near future, but more as the far future. Plus I feel as rich countrys, we should have a dutie of helping the poorer countrys, first it's the right thing to do, plus by helping others, it does come back in a loop and help you as well, (if I need to feed people selfish desires as well), if you think logically and unemotionally about it. Personally, I'm totaly for any development in allternative energy.
234566tgvb 2 years ago
But the other way is to keep using oil and fossil fuel to it runs out, or gets more expensive and not care, as it suites us at the moment. Personally I find that raver short sighted, plus a tad selfish as well. People might not care, but you usally find, later or sooner, that crap starts to hit the fan. Alternative fuels could later on lead to cheaper fuel, less enviromental problems and a country been more independent for it self, there well worth developing :).
234566tgvb 2 years ago
Very cool technology, now all to be done is to improve it and make it cheaper. Plus makes sure every corner of the planet can produce large amounts of energy, very cleanly and very cheaply as well.
234566tgvb 2 years ago
We need to learn to harness the power of flatulence. In fact, just last night, I'm sure I expelled enough foul smelling gas to power downtown Manhattan for at least ten minutes. I envision a day when everyone will fart in unity and harmony and produce clean (well, sort of) renewable energy. I am sure this would please Andy.
napone0 2 years ago
Why not use water to create the hydrogen instead of natural gas?
riceman1230 2 years ago 2
then hydrogen is not fuel. It is energy trasporter.
pimpekism 2 years ago 2
the most richest county may get hydrogen power plant
danvoy24 2 years ago
To simplify the situation just all that needs to be done is use some low current electrolosis on some tap water like using stainless steel plates and 12 volt dc and in return you get HHO... 2 parts Pure Hydrogen with 1 Part Oxygen...You burn that you get 3000+ flame...just run a huge Generator (Engine) or Gas Turbine Engine and convert the torque to a generator...Fuck Heads!!..and guess what all the waste you get is WATER VAPOUR...H20
and Guess what?!!! the water is Free ..
Donkeys!!
pooponic 2 years ago
Very Cool!
bealcd3 2 years ago
you can make it completely clean if you want to pretty easily... solar+wind+hydroelectric etc... provides power to electrolyze water, the H2 from that is then used to power these with O2 from the air which gives abundant electricity.
Also Fusion power is beginning to rear its head, its not ready for full scale testing yet but its getting better all the time, the energy from that would be far in advance of anything we have today and the byproduct is helium... which is inert.
Clint945 3 years ago
LOOK UP XOGEN!!! or else HHO wanna see how to make your own hydrogen for under $30 look up HHO
420bmxer 3 years ago
Stupid bastards, turn natural gas into hydrogen, and end up with co2 emmissions.....
STUPID!!!!
Can101276 3 years ago
Yup need to stop talking about Fuel cells and find ways to get power.Like finding ways to get Geothermal energy.
Darkfoster22 3 years ago
the point is they have the fuel cell installed, so it can now be powered by hydrogen from anywhere.
Alabamomebic4 3 years ago
All due respect, but they just want to sell all the natural gas that is abundant in the northern regions of Canada and Russia. No-one seems to care about the evironment or efficency, they just want to lead you to another "feul" that they can charge you for.
Can101276 3 years ago
Comment removed
Son37Lumiere 2 years ago
yeah, but the point is that you can power it with hydrogen from anything... if you wanted to you could power it with water, you would just need a boron catalyst to split the water...
Clint945 3 years ago
...why does he want to heat hot water?
CunningSoapMan 3 years ago
STUPID thats why
Darkfoster22 3 years ago
you are brainwashed to the max. you make me sick.
alexjonesretard 3 years ago
It's a wonder if your avg "home-owner" even knows what he's buying into? wait a minute. don't answer that.
mulukchuwen 3 years ago
Steam reforming
He mentioned that heat, and g, if he just dumped some water in there, it may just prove to be some interesting results:
Commercial bulk hydrogen is usually produced by the steam reforming of natural gas. At high temperatures (700--1100 °C), steam (H2O) reacts with methane (CH4) to yield syngas. CH4 + H2O → CO + 3 H2 - 191.7 kJ/mol
I'm not sure what temp H20 turns to HH O but I believe I've heard about 800..
kerpal2343 3 years ago 2
Y its many years from now? We need better ways of getting lots of Hydrogen.Y? 99% of hydrogen we get today produce Co2.So whats the point.There looking for ways to produce Hydrogen with out free up Co2.
Darkfoster22 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You're a dolt. Hydrogen can't create CO2.
Do you see an H in CO2?
No, because it's carbon and oxygen
HiyoruMikiyazoya 3 years ago
"Hydrocarbons"
+@2:46 open your Xxxing ears
"Most of the Exhaust that comes out is Co2"
Whos the idiot now.
Darkfoster22 3 years ago
Actually the co2 comes from the natural gas being used for hydrogen production not from the burning of the hydrogen itself.
Can101276 3 years ago
That what i was talking about.Like 90% comes from natural gas / oil so hows that green.Co2 comes with it.
Darkfoster22 3 years ago
Chernobyl could never happen on a Western reactor. ? you kidding andyplace. you think god owns the nuclear power plants in the west:)/ accidents are not limited to communist countries. It's wild that these guys could make such use of hydrogen but cannot plice the tape or narrate it outside the plant without the racket. ;PLEASE give us some credit.
owtzzz 3 years ago
In order to use fuel cells, you must first aquire Hydrogen. They specified using landfill gas and electrolisis as future sources of hydrogen. I would advocate using landfill gas as using electrolisis would require more energy than you would get out of it, energy that could be put directly into the power grid.
dillj34555 3 years ago
The people that control the energy market need a system that allows them to CHARGE people for energy (be that oil, electricity, gas, solar, wind, tidal, or any other generating process). We CAN produce H from water. This process could be next-to-free to everyone. The PROBLEM in a capitalist system is that this IS FREE(or nearly). WE CAN GET THIS ENERGY FOR FREE!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST THIS IS DRIVING ME MAD.
the system of capitalism is only 150yr old and look how it's fucked EARTH
noriordan 3 years ago
There is no such thing as free energy. You can make hydrogen from water - but that electricity needs to come from somewhere. You can't produce hydrogen with electricity to use to make electricity. Actually, you can, but only at 40% efficiency, which is a complete waste and pointless.
winvistainfo 3 years ago 2
Not if it produces more electricity than it requires and results in no pollution.
Son37Lumiere 2 years ago
For a full electronics system for your sell see ebay item 250264427981
googleproads 3 years ago
the enegy produced could be used to create any of the carrying mediums such as hydrogen from electrolysis, hydrocarbons from hydrogenation of coal under the old German patent, or the use of electric motors.
I found at the time that this type of hydro electric generation would be sufficient to power the continental "U S" in in its entirety with the erection of 50 such unit strategically located around the seaboard of the country.
bigbirdtwothoueight 3 years ago
continued, the system is faultless and the cost per kilowatt is extremely low when you consider the cost of the original capital versus the power generated from the system.
My calculation at the time was such that every city bordering the ocean say like New york, would be served by a series of barges that would only occupy 50 acres of the ocean in some circumspect but well studied area.
The numbers are staggering but heap oil made the whole idea useless at the time.
bigbirdtwothoueight 3 years ago
My favorite is Hydro electric because you get to use 18th century technology to generated electricity with the new materials available. I put together a system in 1964 while at Hardwicke Chemical co. The system comprised of a series of barges that would be installed into towers erected in the ocean that would utilize the wave motion to power hydrolic pumps that would turn turbines that would produce electricity.....
bigbirdtwothoueight 3 years ago
i have read all the mail concerning this issue of producing Hydrogen from water through electrolysis. It is evident that you need a whole lot of electric enegy to get hydrogen. electricity is not cheap and will be more and more expensive in the future.
We will need more power generated by either wind,direct photocell and hydro electric.
bigbirdtwothoueight 3 years ago
nice and politicaly correct... hydrogen...made from gaz!
NO NO NO, use the sewage water to make your hydrogen and stop the hypocrisis...
jclabart 3 years ago
buddy how much energy in KWh does it produce in the whole year???
magitronic12 3 years ago
The people that propose the solution are the problem. Nuclear is the answer. It alway's has been. Because of the opposition we have not built any new plants and Coal is the most nasty
thing. To bad 50% of power comes from coal.
txgiorgi 3 years ago
nuclear would be good if there wasnt the minor problem of a massively toxic waste and the posability of another Chernobyl... hydrogen is the answer, along with solar and wind and such
wiwwynils 3 years ago
Chernobyl could never happen on a Western reactor.
andyplace 3 years ago
Just crack the water and you have HOH (brown gas)for fuel and it burns clean. Why Nuclear? Which is more dangerous to operate and which one that produce no waste?
sunnynaire 3 years ago
It takes electricity to crack water.
txgiorgi 3 years ago
What do you propose to do with nuclear waste? There are many problems with nuclear power proponents like you love to gloss over.
Son37Lumiere 2 years ago
This plant is highly un practical until u find a efficient way to produce pure hydrogen. however, i m impressed by the size of the powerplant.
suggestion: why know use the 750degree exhaust to fire up another generator to produce even more electricity.
aeroscope 3 years ago
They aready have a source for hydrogen. They have a fuel reformer that takes in natural gas and strips off the hydrogen to use as fuel.
winvistainfo 3 years ago
no good. we want to get away from fossel fuels not embrace it.
owtzzz 3 years ago 7
There's also biogas, which is what Mr. Sullivan is also talking about of a methane similar source.
FortoneND 3 years ago
@owtzzz 90-95% efficiencies cut carbon emissions in half, how is this a bad thing while we transition away from fossil fuels?
getsafe1212 1 year ago
$ 100,000 for 600,000 BTUh would be in WINTER ALONE in N Ohio, NY etc
175 kwh CONTINUOUSLY on 20-25 degree days
NET NET NET usable 175 KWH in Heating Energy
and
Pre-Cools fresh air entering a facility
which ups thw kw NET comparrison significantly vs r410 a and other refrigerant cooling
gtj126 3 years ago
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gtj126 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hydrogen....???Who care if Brown gas generator is available....Why are you trying to perpetuate the bullshit
Darealwhip 4 years ago
what in the hell are talking about!(bullshit?)
youmean Bushit lol
pi3573 3 years ago
The easiest way to obtain hydrogen is through pyrolysis. It converts all organic materials (waste, tires,hazardous waste, etc.) into hydrogen and carbon black.
You get paid for the disposal of the ingoing material and get paid for the material produced.
The most efficient method of heating the vessel during pyrolysis by using a plasma torch INSIDE the vessel.
HootOwl88 4 years ago
hydrolysis is actually the most efficient way to produce hydrogen. on an atomic level you have less waste. All you are putting in is electric current which can be obtained fairly cheap, plasma on the other hand requires HUGE amounts of electricity and heat to generate.
capnthepeafarmer 4 years ago
In pyrolysis the goal is not just to produce hydrogen but the dispose of immense quantities of waste material clogging the earth, such as any organic waste, tires, hazardous waste, poison gasses, etc. By using a plasma flame inside the vessel reduces the need to heat the vessel, thus reducing the need for excessive energy input. Burning hydrogen to produce electricity results in a very favorable energy balance plus the advantage of profitably disposing and destroying organic waste.
HootOwl88 4 years ago
which is the most efficient way to "react" hydrogen into electricity, normal burning process with turbines ? or is there another method. ?
Eqvaliser 4 years ago
I'm not a chemist so excuse me if this is a dumb idea, but could'nt hydrogen be generated (and later harnessed) by simple elctrolysis of water? I think that is the thing that has always fascinated me about fuel cells, the notion that, on the surface at least, hydrogen seems so readily available and affordable.
bijeto 4 years ago
The U.S Government will stop you. They want you controlled, dead or poor and as long as they monopolize you with their inferior technologies and decades old dependency on oil, they will do everything they can to stop it. Why? Because too many politicians stand to loose billions if people stopped using oil. So at the expense of the public we loose.
freespeachrulez 4 years ago
absolutely great system
thermocouples and other systems could make it more efficient
sn1pe352 4 years ago
System price?
carlosgaspar74 4 years ago
as an engineer i,m surprised at you. running green on a limited basis is perfectable under many different circumstances. however when you look at the normal every day energy neends for just the asa, nevermind the rest of the rapidlt growing 3rd world,doube it,will be workable.the fraud on carbon futures is laughable right now bobbyr
bobbyrita 4 years ago
Andy, Thanks for the excellent insight on CSU's reforming fuel cell at Northridge. These fuel cell types will play an important role in the inevitable transition from natural gas to hydrogen in the coming years as wind farms begin to supplement depleting natural gas supplies with renewable hydrogen produced from off-peak or stranded wind resources.
Richard D. Masters
hydrogencommerce 4 years ago
Hello Mr. Masters. Thank you for your kind comments. What drives your interest in hydrogen?
peacefulloflove 4 years ago
Well, I've been interested in hydrogen energy since Ben Bova, through an editorial in "Analog", turned me on to the idea in 1975. The breakthroughs in hydrogen storage, production and fuel cell efficiency that are occurring weekly now indicate an earlier culmination than previously forseen. You can see that today I am pretty interested in the political barriers by visiting my web site.
hydrogencommerce 4 years ago
1 MW won't get you too far
bmotx 4 years ago
To clarify something, if you're worried about fossil fuels... molten carbonate fuel cells can use a variety of fuel sources. You do not need pure gaseous hydrogen as is with PEM (proton exchange membrane) fuel cells. The fuel source(s) for the cell stack, whether it be some kind of hydrogen rich organic, natural gas, or whatever, is internally reformed beucase of the high temperatues and potent lithium or sodium salt electrolytes/catalysts. Thank you chemical engineering.
ptpllc 4 years ago
"The plant burns natural gas to genertate hydrogen .... no fossil fuels" Ummm... sure, I'll believe that one
eaglerod444 4 years ago
They don't burn anything, burning is a different chemical reaction.
As for fossil fuels they currently do, but are certainly not tied to using it for ever.
SoggyGibblets 4 years ago
in fact they they don't BURN anything, depending on what kinda fuel cells they are.
And in this case, they get their natural gas and reform it. Its a process called steam reformation, no combustions ever happens. these types of fuel cells work exclusively by electrochemical reactions
iamyourmessiah 4 years ago
Where in the world do they get their hydrogen? Unless they are producing hydrogen magically, all they're doing is wasting energy.
eaglerod444 4 years ago
They split the hydrogen off the gas that goes in.
SoggyGibblets 4 years ago
Despite the description, fuel cell commercial power generation CANNOT replace fossil fuel dependance.
Hydrogen from water is only about 50-70% efficient. The fuel cells convert about 30-40% of this hydrogen energy back into electricity. Such a plant would recover 10-23% of the electricity needed to feul it.
In order to produce power, such a large-scale plant would still need to produce hydrogen from fossil fuels (like this one does), where gas is reacted with water to form H2 and CO.
ghosttwo2 4 years ago
and a 30% efficient gasoline engine is somehow better?
ToeCutter454 4 years ago
Power Plants don't run on gasoline. A coal/ng powerplant can have up to 60% efficiency, and nuclear currently reaches 50%. Once Natural gas supplies delcine (around 2030), wind, tidal, solar, geo, methane, nuclear and coal will be the only 'root' technologies available. Vehicles will likely be hydrogen, but it will be based off of these 'roots'.
ghosttwo2 4 years ago
You just answered my question, so thank you!
bijeto 4 years ago
Hydrogen on demand is the key to water fuel.
Sorry not having to refill at another gas station is true freedom. Your still paying for your hydrogen? LOL. Idiotic concept.
Your still tethered to a gas pump. Really revolutionary, um no. Its the same thing.
sirHOAX 4 years ago
How is natural gas just turned into hydrogen? doesnt the natural gas have to run some sort of generator to produce electricity to get remove the hydrogen from the water? I dont see how that could be any more efficient than just using electricity until you can produce electricity with wind or solar to remove the hydrogen from the water.I could be wrong but thats how I thought it worked.
quaheedus 4 years ago
That's an excellent question. I had to look There are two natural gas reformer technologies — autothermal reforming (ATR) and steam methane reforming (SMR). Both methods work by exposing natural gas to a catalyst (usually nickel) at high temperature and pressure.
peacefulloflove 4 years ago
I'm not sure which of the two reforming technologies this power plant uses, the key point is that the only external inputs of energy you would need (and I'm not sure that you even need external inputs) is to heat and pressurize the natural gas.
peacefulloflove 4 years ago
Hydrolisis. There`s a new method to obtain hydrogen with a bit amount of amperes.
That`s not a big trouble.
drcaos 4 years ago
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starterblue 4 years ago
greyflcn, what transmission losses are there when this is a distributed energy application?
Buzz5555Buzz 4 years ago
Whats the product of this? I mean when you remove hodrogen from Natural gas (methane?).
Johanoeberg 4 years ago
I recently checked out your website, andyposner org Very professional. I hope you don't mind if I share this video as part of a presentation I am doing. Maybe we can set up a day and time so I can interview you as well. Thanks.
rubykostichka 4 years ago
Wow! I was blown away by the information in this website. Excellent Job. I am now eager to check out this at California State Northridge. By the way, do you have a website?
rubykostichka 4 years ago
hey, thanks for your comment. yes, i do in fact have a website. you can learn more about the video at andyposner dot com / videos
Thanks again,
Andy
peacefulloflove 4 years ago
I am working on the fuel cell project at CSUN, and we get well over 65% efficiency and the fuel cell is not running at full speed. After the fuel cell is finished we will be at around 83% efficiency in combined power and we will be using almost all the by products that the fuel cell produces. There are no pollutants produced and the CO2 levels that are released are very small compared to coal burning plants.
trailer0000 4 years ago
please go into depth about hydrogen and fuel cells to power our homes and cars. I would love to learn more and how I can get in contact with Bill Sullivan
ShellyPeterson333 4 years ago
great job Andy on another fine production!
ShellyPeterson333 4 years ago
Ncie video about energy efficiency! I learned a lot about this technology. Great job
ShellyPeterson333 4 years ago
Thank you for your comment pleabargain. I too was amazed by the heat recovery and efficiency of the plant. Which specific seconds/minutes of the video did you want to comment on?
peacefulloflove 4 years ago
Now this is the correct way to store renewable energy.
blogs. business2. com/ greenwombat/ 2007/ 06/ photo_green_wom.html
Batteries.
greyflcn 4 years ago
Hey andy! I think that I accidentally clicked on 3 out of 5 instead of 5/5, which I think the video deserves. So I'll tell my friends to compensate.
Great film. I didn't know that hydrogen was being used in any way to make energy yet. Congratulations on your second video! It looks much more elaborate and professional than the Egyptian one! Great job!
Dimachnevidimach 4 years ago
Lastly, I should add that I greatly enjoyed seeing how the power plant is not only generating electricty, but also hot water, and I was thrilled to learn that they have plans to sequester the CO2 in a sub-tropical greenhouse. It is heartening to know this sort of advanced work is being done.
renewables 4 years ago
I think a lot of people are unaware that there are already hydrogen cars and power plants, and that there are already electric cars available on the market. The technology is here: let's put it to use!
renewables 4 years ago
Thank you for sharing this video. I am excited to see that these sorts of technologies have gone beyond the experimental phase and are actually being built and used commercially.
renewables 4 years ago
Hydrogen isn't not decades away, it's just never going to happen.
greyfalcon. net/ hydrogen4.png
greyfalcon. net/ hydrogen3.png
greyfalcon. net/ hydrogen
Would be better off just burning the natural gas, as natural gas, at 65% effeciency in a combined cycle power plant.
Hydrogen is never going to be a good storage medium for electricity.
greyflcn 4 years ago