No I am not getting vegetarianism and veganism mixed up LOL I am a strict vegetarian and I try and buy and eat as vegan as reasonably possible. You are right that some vegetarians do it for diet but at the same time there is a documentary by a man who doesn't 'love' animals but is a vegetarian for the environment, also with factory farming and cruelty in consideration, and won't go and buy leather or animal products. Even those who choose vegetarian diets for health tend to go that way.
@apocalist420 Everyone gets angry about things at some times. It can be very frustrating dealing with ignorant people and I fully understand that. I don't think it suggests she hasn't found peace with her lifestyle I think it is just interacting with people that gets the better of all of us at some point.
@apocalist420 I have no interest in researching into humans feeling better after eating meat after knowing about the cruelty in the industry. I consider each sides which is why I said I don't bother creating a problem over people who kill animals humanely. Yes meat eaters do protest against inhumane treatment but this has not changed much. Perhaps if you killed that lamb you ate you would feel differently. I love not eating animals, and not even because of the factory farming.
@apocalist420 Well what was that point in that statement then? No we do not kill them to eat them. Do you not know of the fur trade where animals are slaughtered purely for their fur? Because clearly that is what these animals are on earth for. Oh I understand reality very well and am fully capable of seeing beyond my beliefs. Your deeper meaning does have something to do with what you eat because you stated that is why you eat meat. It certainly doesn't sound like a deeper connection.
@apocalist420 Maybe you should have just said that in the first place rather than making some confusing statement about the human conscience. I think you are one of the few people who feel 'better' after eating meat again. I have never heard of this.
@apocalist420 Yes human arrogance. Animals regularly show humans that they do not, in fact, have full power over animals as they believe. Like the killer whale in captivity that attacked and killed it's trainer. Humans believe they can have power over every animal and that they rule. How many things have people learnt from animals? Do you think we would fly if we hadn't seen an animal do it? No. It is not in human nature or biology to fly! I find many animals superior to some people.
@apocalist420 "If one chooses to be vegan for moral reasons how do they keep there conscience clear of nature as it has been since the dawn of life" It seems that you are trying to appear intelligent with your sentencing but it is not coming across that way. How can you keep your conscience clear of nature? It doesn't make sense. Watch a video of people grinding up baby male chicks and see if you feel anything. My conscience is clear because I do not support that industry.
@apocalist420 I find your idea of eating meat because you have found a deeper meaning in life a very strange concept. Generally people find that NOT eating meat evokes a deeper meaning in life. That is, at least, how I feel about it. I feel more valuable in the world and more compassion and understanding towards both humans and animals.
@apocalist420 There is no point in talking of a world that doesn't exist where there are no factory farms. We do not kill or defend ourselves by eating animals so really you are just agreeing that it is unnecessary to eat meat by that statement. I wouldn't call it a bitterness towards humanity... more like an accurate statement on how humans are disconnected from the earth and actual reality. It is AGAINST NATURE to treat animals the way humans do today.
@apocalist420 It is not like the meat you eat is a threat to your existence NOR necessary for your existence! In fact unless you kill it and eat it yourself you are like everyone else dissociating flesh you buy with the animal it was. It is not that it is evil to kill animals, it is evil to factory farm them for profit; harming the animals and the people who eat them. If you choose to eat tortured flesh that is not my concern but don't use human arrogance as a sufficient explanation for it.
@apocalist420 Clearly you need to read up on environmentalism and the health problems caused by meat. It is because we feel COMPASSION towards living beings and have relationship with animals. Do you have a pet? If so would you eat it? I doubt it. The only difference between your pet and another animal is that you haven't given it a name and become attached to it. Your argument about sharks is not particularly intelligent. It is in their nature and maybe they feel threatened by humans.
@apocalist420 Seriously? That makes no sense at all. How can you actually think that eating meat makes us aware of 'atrocious beasts' in the world we live in today.
Who are you to suddenly say who is a true vegan/vegetarian or not because of the reasons of the choice?
A vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat, if you don't eat meat you are a ''true'' vegetarian. The reasons for such a diet change doesn't mean you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
Who are you also to say someone isn't vegetarian if they wear leather? Diet and choice of apparel are 2 different things and have no correlation. That's just arrogance.
"Diet and choice of apparel are 2 different things and have no correlation."
Well that's just false. There definitely is some correlation, if only because of "moral" vegans. But other than that, what you say is true. She means "moral" or "ethical" vegans rather than "true."
@chaosproduction Actually she is correct about the true meaning. The true term of vegetarian was coined by compassion and awareness of animal suffering.There is a difference. If you are doing it for health reasons it is definitely not the same. She is not arrogant at all she is making a good point. Someone who doesn't eat meat is called 'someone who doesn't eat meat'. Being vegetarian includes not using carmine (from crushed beetles), not eating cheese with animal rennet (from calf stomachs)
@missprincessfifi The official meaning of vegetarianism is someone who simply doesn't eat meat. Whether it is for health reasons or moral reasons, it doesn't change the definition of the word, and it definately doesn't give you the right to decide what a ''true vegetarian'' is, especially when there is no such thing.
@chaosproduction If you read into the history of vegetarianism you will find the term was created by a group of people that chose not to eat meat for ethical reasons. The definition in society may be lacking strict guidelines but if you follow only a vegetarian diet you do not lead a vegetarian lifestyle you eat a vegetarian diet. No one ever claimed some 'right' to decide what a true vegetarian is.
@chaosproduction Nonmeat-Eater: Does not eat meat. Most definitions do not consider fish, fowl or seafood to be meat. Animal fats and oils, bonemeal and skin are not considered meat.
@missprincessfifi I wouldn't call that the true meaning. I would just say that is how the word first came to terms. Since then the definition has evolved as a name for anyone who doesn't eat meat, despite their reasons.
It is the girl in the video who tried to define what a ''true vegetarian''. Well if there is such a thing, it is someone who simply doesn't eat meat.
I assume you are getting mixed up with vegetarianism and veganism.
You don't offend me, but the reason why people become vegan is revelant. A true vegan is one who matches the definition of the word, and words are defined through their meaning. A vegan is currently defined as a person who does not eat any animal products.
You may connote veganism with animal rights, but thats just as wrong as someone connoting thin with attractive.
@pjmacphee Ethical vegans reject the commodity status of animals and the use of animal products for any purpose, while dietary vegans or strict vegetarians eliminate them from their diet only. " Leslie Cross, the society's vice-president wrote that veganism is a principle, that it is "not so much about welfare as liberation." The society pledged to "seek to end the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection and all other exploitation of animal life by man."
No I am not getting vegetarianism and veganism mixed up LOL I am a strict vegetarian and I try and buy and eat as vegan as reasonably possible. You are right that some vegetarians do it for diet but at the same time there is a documentary by a man who doesn't 'love' animals but is a vegetarian for the environment, also with factory farming and cruelty in consideration, and won't go and buy leather or animal products. Even those who choose vegetarian diets for health tend to go that way.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 Everyone gets angry about things at some times. It can be very frustrating dealing with ignorant people and I fully understand that. I don't think it suggests she hasn't found peace with her lifestyle I think it is just interacting with people that gets the better of all of us at some point.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 I have no interest in researching into humans feeling better after eating meat after knowing about the cruelty in the industry. I consider each sides which is why I said I don't bother creating a problem over people who kill animals humanely. Yes meat eaters do protest against inhumane treatment but this has not changed much. Perhaps if you killed that lamb you ate you would feel differently. I love not eating animals, and not even because of the factory farming.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 Well what was that point in that statement then? No we do not kill them to eat them. Do you not know of the fur trade where animals are slaughtered purely for their fur? Because clearly that is what these animals are on earth for. Oh I understand reality very well and am fully capable of seeing beyond my beliefs. Your deeper meaning does have something to do with what you eat because you stated that is why you eat meat. It certainly doesn't sound like a deeper connection.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 Maybe you should have just said that in the first place rather than making some confusing statement about the human conscience. I think you are one of the few people who feel 'better' after eating meat again. I have never heard of this.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 Yes human arrogance. Animals regularly show humans that they do not, in fact, have full power over animals as they believe. Like the killer whale in captivity that attacked and killed it's trainer. Humans believe they can have power over every animal and that they rule. How many things have people learnt from animals? Do you think we would fly if we hadn't seen an animal do it? No. It is not in human nature or biology to fly! I find many animals superior to some people.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 "If one chooses to be vegan for moral reasons how do they keep there conscience clear of nature as it has been since the dawn of life" It seems that you are trying to appear intelligent with your sentencing but it is not coming across that way. How can you keep your conscience clear of nature? It doesn't make sense. Watch a video of people grinding up baby male chicks and see if you feel anything. My conscience is clear because I do not support that industry.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 I find your idea of eating meat because you have found a deeper meaning in life a very strange concept. Generally people find that NOT eating meat evokes a deeper meaning in life. That is, at least, how I feel about it. I feel more valuable in the world and more compassion and understanding towards both humans and animals.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 There is no point in talking of a world that doesn't exist where there are no factory farms. We do not kill or defend ourselves by eating animals so really you are just agreeing that it is unnecessary to eat meat by that statement. I wouldn't call it a bitterness towards humanity... more like an accurate statement on how humans are disconnected from the earth and actual reality. It is AGAINST NATURE to treat animals the way humans do today.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 It is not like the meat you eat is a threat to your existence NOR necessary for your existence! In fact unless you kill it and eat it yourself you are like everyone else dissociating flesh you buy with the animal it was. It is not that it is evil to kill animals, it is evil to factory farm them for profit; harming the animals and the people who eat them. If you choose to eat tortured flesh that is not my concern but don't use human arrogance as a sufficient explanation for it.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 Clearly you need to read up on environmentalism and the health problems caused by meat. It is because we feel COMPASSION towards living beings and have relationship with animals. Do you have a pet? If so would you eat it? I doubt it. The only difference between your pet and another animal is that you haven't given it a name and become attached to it. Your argument about sharks is not particularly intelligent. It is in their nature and maybe they feel threatened by humans.
missprincessfifi 3 weeks ago
@apocalist420 Seriously? That makes no sense at all. How can you actually think that eating meat makes us aware of 'atrocious beasts' in the world we live in today.
missprincessfifi 4 weeks ago
Who are you to suddenly say who is a true vegan/vegetarian or not because of the reasons of the choice?
A vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat, if you don't eat meat you are a ''true'' vegetarian. The reasons for such a diet change doesn't mean you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
Who are you also to say someone isn't vegetarian if they wear leather? Diet and choice of apparel are 2 different things and have no correlation. That's just arrogance.
chaosproduction 5 months ago 2
@chaosproduction
"Diet and choice of apparel are 2 different things and have no correlation."
Well that's just false. There definitely is some correlation, if only because of "moral" vegans. But other than that, what you say is true. She means "moral" or "ethical" vegans rather than "true."
mellamosean 2 months ago
@chaosproduction Actually she is correct about the true meaning. The true term of vegetarian was coined by compassion and awareness of animal suffering.There is a difference. If you are doing it for health reasons it is definitely not the same. She is not arrogant at all she is making a good point. Someone who doesn't eat meat is called 'someone who doesn't eat meat'. Being vegetarian includes not using carmine (from crushed beetles), not eating cheese with animal rennet (from calf stomachs)
missprincessfifi 4 weeks ago
@missprincessfifi The official meaning of vegetarianism is someone who simply doesn't eat meat. Whether it is for health reasons or moral reasons, it doesn't change the definition of the word, and it definately doesn't give you the right to decide what a ''true vegetarian'' is, especially when there is no such thing.
chaosproduction 4 weeks ago
@chaosproduction If you read into the history of vegetarianism you will find the term was created by a group of people that chose not to eat meat for ethical reasons. The definition in society may be lacking strict guidelines but if you follow only a vegetarian diet you do not lead a vegetarian lifestyle you eat a vegetarian diet. No one ever claimed some 'right' to decide what a true vegetarian is.
missprincessfifi 4 weeks ago
@chaosproduction Nonmeat-Eater: Does not eat meat. Most definitions do not consider fish, fowl or seafood to be meat. Animal fats and oils, bonemeal and skin are not considered meat.
missprincessfifi 4 weeks ago
@missprincessfifi I wouldn't call that the true meaning. I would just say that is how the word first came to terms. Since then the definition has evolved as a name for anyone who doesn't eat meat, despite their reasons.
It is the girl in the video who tried to define what a ''true vegetarian''. Well if there is such a thing, it is someone who simply doesn't eat meat.
I assume you are getting mixed up with vegetarianism and veganism.
chaosproduction 3 weeks ago
You don't offend me, but the reason why people become vegan is revelant. A true vegan is one who matches the definition of the word, and words are defined through their meaning. A vegan is currently defined as a person who does not eat any animal products.
You may connote veganism with animal rights, but thats just as wrong as someone connoting thin with attractive.
pjmacphee 5 months ago
@pjmacphee Ethical vegans reject the commodity status of animals and the use of animal products for any purpose, while dietary vegans or strict vegetarians eliminate them from their diet only. " Leslie Cross, the society's vice-president wrote that veganism is a principle, that it is "not so much about welfare as liberation." The society pledged to "seek to end the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection and all other exploitation of animal life by man."
missprincessfifi 4 weeks ago