Obama Expects To Sign Health Care Bill Soon

[lebogart2002]

Emesis.

[eldrama1]

We already have the best health care in the world if you're young, healthy, have no pre-existing conditions and can afford the premiums and co-pays and i say if it ain't broke, don't fix it if you're young, healthy, have no pre-existing conditions and can afford the premiums and co-pays.

[LesPaulCustom79]

As long as Obama don't takes away my boxes of pseudopehndrine, caus' I gots'ta cook it down and makes meth.

[padude64]

There are 3 parts of the healthcare debate. 1. People are scared due to the recent failing economy! Obama brought us from the brink of a depression.

2. What bill have the republicans offered? I have seen nothing from the republicans!

3. Lies on healthcare reform are rampant amongst the republican members and republicans only care about winning elections!

[LtSurge659]

"2. What bill have the republicans offered? I have seen nothing from the republicans!"

Wow. Just. Wow.

[hadenufnow]

Kill the 3000 pg Illegal HC TAX & JAIL Trojan Horse Mandate Bill nobody wants..

Kill the freakin bill...

Vote em out..

nobody wants it..

[eldrama1]

"nobody wants it" gee, i must be the only one then.

[aarontwhitehead]

I am a nurse and I can tell you that only the nurses and administrators in higher ranks of management are for this crap. Most nurses work hard for thier pay and are not for giving more of that pay to the deadbeat and lazy. You couldn't pay us enough to stand up there with him.

[eldrama1]

who told you you would be "giving more?" Rush? Educate yourself and learn to spell while you're at it.

[Juby2kewl]

Im a newly graduated RN and cant find a job in my state of NJ. How is going to help me with that?

[eldrama1]

I have an itch on my azz that needs scratching. How is going to help me with that?

[Pappahans40]

Obama is for Europe, what Eisenhower was for US

Will you ever quit not understanding...

[hellotommy]

It is un-American to want handouts; most American's believe a government that governs least governs best. If you want to pursue a dream of being rich, you can become what you want (it's called freedom). Each American is an individual not a pillar. The deadbeats and lazy blood suckers are the ones in the US pushing "Single Payer" in the US; It's not reform it's a dismantling of the best healthcare system on earth.

Obama Explains How His Health Care Plan Will 'Eliminate' Private Insurance

[eldrama1]

I agree. Those lazy, blood sucking children with pre-existing cancers should be kicked to the curb.

[XeXc]

shit Obama wants to take away my NYQUIL.

[migx27]

I think its poor american people!!!

[ForgotAboutShray]

poor american doctors..

[truefaith00]

So far our government hasn't shown they can fix much of anything. They already blew literally mountains of money trying to fix the economy and so far its not shown any signs of working. They pass bills without even reading the contents, pontificate on things they barely grasp, and in general are failing at good governance.

The odds of them creating a successful program are slim, the chances of them not taxing the citizens into poverty to fund it are completely non-existent.

[wethepeopleUSA2012]

2 Videos on Youtube to watch: 1) The Health Care Bill: What they DON'T want you to know!

2) wethepeopleUSA2012 (see the video posted there)

[wethepeopleUSA2012]

Please watch this Youtube Video: The Health Care Bill: What they DON'T want you to know!

[ajack50]

obama can take his healthcare rippoff back to kenya,we don't want this healthcare bill, but this liar obama keeps saying Americans want this bill ,he want to even cover 10-20 million illigal aliens at a cost to us the taxpayers.this is a 10 trillion dollar ripoff. He has lied about doctors backing his plan,this is an outrite lie most doctors are totally against this bill.The rising costs are because of lawsuits nothing else,where is the torte reform in this bill go to hell obama.

[kmbo123123]

If you're scared of socialized medicine because of "freeloaders" keep in mind, homeless drug addicts, alcoholics and the like get treated anyway at emergency rooms, and it gets paid for by us collectively anyway. Most people in opposition to his also have never feared losing their health insurance. Its terrifying to imagine losing one's health insurance, and what if someone in the family gets cancer? Do you know how much cancer costs to treat (of course it depends)..it's not cheap :-\

[kevinneslund]

In fact, I remember back in 1998 and 1999 thinking to myself "Man, if this keep's up (selling these bad loans) we'll eventually begin seeing huge numbers of foreclosures/sheriff's sales and the housing market will be turned upside down". Well, lo and behold, look what has happened. It's on a pace with the methamphetamine epidemic.

[judetheobscure100]

No-one denies that medical care in the US of A is, in most disciplines, the best in the world. What the world in general and Britain (your ONLY constant ally) in particular does not comprehend is why the richest, most powerful democratic country in the world effectively excludes one third of its population from access to even a reasonable average level of care. I repeat, the measure of a society is its treatment of the poor and vulnerable. If you neg'd THAT idea then SHAME is too feeble a word.

[judetheobscure100]

For those who neg'd my comment I was NOT being ironic about Iraq & Afghanistan. I believe it was the worst military-political decison ever made to cease Desert Storm without removing Saddam. I applauded the decision to return to Iraq ON ANY PRETEXT, WMDs or none. If you neg'd me because you thought I implied that they were 'wrong wars' then shame on you for reading the worst into an honest comment.

I have a response to Kevin's reply to my comment, which will follow...

[murderbox1]

If you want national heath care, GO TO CANADA!!!

[judetheobscure100]

Where, apparently, it works very well, for a population known for their manners and education.

[kevinneslund]

This man is systematically destroying the economy of what was once the greatest and most powerful nation on the face of the earth. He is actually EXPERIMENTING and TINKERING with peoples hard-earned tax dollars. It is of little to no concern to him and his constituents who actually EXEMPT themselves from the so-called gloriously wonderful programs they themselves enact. The Emperor is parading around with no clothes and getting away with it. So far. This must be stopped.

[memama2]

there are 10,000+ pages of fools folly in this PLAN..???HE DID NOT=READ!....REMEMBER= i will go line - - - by line.......???...lol.....he forgot!

[kevinneslund]

Indeed. Anyone can just bloviate meaningless rhetoric. He is politically clever. He tickles the ears of his constituents by saying what he, or his staff have told him the public would like to hear. Pathetic. If he were an honorable man he would admit that this is purely experimental, just as when he told the American people "we need to enact this bill (stimulus/TARP) to keep the unemployment rate under 8%, if we don't, it will hit 9&".... Well folks, we're now at 9.6 % national unemployment!

[judetheobscure100]

After the Wall St Crash and the world-wide Depression the saying 'America sneezes and the rest of the world catches cold' was coined, I believe.

Because of the American sub-prime mortgage fiasco, so ably explained by yourself, there are now almost a million more unemployed people in BRITAIN than two years ago. Tens of thousands over here have lost homes, not because of THEIR sub-prime mortgages but because they no longer have a job. This is not an American problem; new politics ARE required.

[judetheobscure100]

The American economy and those of a good part of the world, have been destroyed by the South Sea Bubble mentalities of Financiers. How many more times are you going to let them do this, before you realise WHO the baddies are? Let me give you two more clues: 1929 & 1987. Obama has been in office a couple of months and already you are touting him as the architect of an economic meltdown, which began two years ago. DUH!!! Obama is the EFFECT not the CAUSE. 'Post hoc ergo procter hoc' QED

[kevinneslund]

Hi "judetheobscure100": I work in the mortgage industry. I own a mortgage origination company. I know precisely what was the cause of the economic crisis here in the States. It was the result of greedy mortgage loan officers selling loans to people they knew had no plausible means of amortizing. These bad loans were then flipped and resold to investors who in turn resold them again. Everybody wanting to make a profit off of bad money. It's really not that complicated. A prostitute and a john.

[judetheobscure100]

hi kevin: I worked in the Financial Services Industry and accept that you also have valid qualification and perspective!

The point I implied in the previous post was: if it hadn't been sub-prime mortgages it would have been something else. these financial melt-downs occur with monotonous regularity. In the 19th century the financiers of the City of London were responsible for at least three major crashes (South Sea Bubble, etc) and in the last 100 years, Wall St for three: 1929, 1987 & now!

[kevinneslund]

Hi Jude: I agree in part. The very simplistic thing concerning this particular economic crisis is that it can be reduced to a very fundamental understanding. Greed. Greed between two respective parties. 1.) A loan officer 2.) a borrower. They both are looking to "get" something. The loan officer is hoping he can get them qualified (say, a couple) and make a nice fee, in spite of the fact he knows their ratios are very questionable. The couple has been told they can "cash-out" maybe $25,000!

[judetheobscure100]

hi Kevin: since you alluded to both greed and communism consider this: the truth of Jesus was hijacked by greedy and power-hungry men and at one point gave us the Spanish Inquisition.

Communism was hijacked by a power-mad demagogue and descended into a totalitarian dictatorship as far from the theories of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels as the Spanish Inquisition was from the teachings of Jesus.

Capitalism, our last, best hope can only deliver if regulated against the greedy and corrupt.

[kevinneslund]

Hi Jude: I'm not certain of how to determine what is meant by "hijacked". Could you flesh that out some?

Also, why do you refer to capitalism as being a "last" and "best" hope? It sounds as if you may be privy to something we, and our posterity have yet to have known. Is it accurate to say, as Churchill did, that capitalism is the "worst form of free government, except for all the rest"? cheers ~

[judetheobscure100]

YOUR QUOTE IS INACCURATE: Churchill said DEMOCRACY was the worst form of free government, etc... NOT capitalism; these terms are NOT remotely equivalent.

I can't believe I need to define 'hijack' to an American, but here goes:- when a benign or neutral forum, group or institution, or, e.g a mode of transport is diverted from its intended course by coercion and forced to an unintended destination for the purposes of greed or terrorism it is said to be hijacked.

I'll return to Right to Life

[judetheobscure100]

'the last, best hope' is a reference to Babylon 5. Pure socialsm may not work. No society has successfully tried it without it being hijacked and corrupted into something else. Communist Russia was NOT Communist it was a Totalitarian Dictatorship like a mediaeval absolute monarchy such as Henry VIII or Louis XIV.

Capitalism creates wealth but unregulated it creates wage slavery. To truly progress it must be INCLUSIVE not exclusive; sometimes this means taking a chance on the undeserving poor.

[kevinneslund]

You're right. My error mate. Careful with giving definitions. I'm assuming you are aware that not even dictionaries give definitions of words, but, rather, what people BELIEVE them to be. It's all about usage and context. Us English speaking people are abundantly aware of this. Cheers ~

[judetheobscure100]

Great, I think we are approaching, if not yet on, the same page. Most dictionaries I've read DO give accurate definitions of words, but may not generalise to all alternative contexts. The problem is not that dictionaries give definitions of what people BELIEVE words mean so much as...people believe that THEY know what a word means without ever having checked the dictionary definition. Very few of them have even heard of a thesaurus and wouldn't know a syllogism if it bit 'em on the ass...LOL

[kevinneslund]

Wow. We are indeed in agreement. Nearly. I agree about dictionaries being nearly perfect with regard to accurate definitions. There are, unfortunately some almost embarrassing exceptions. For example the word "hell". Most dictionaries give the proper entry in the etymology area, but, when it comes to the actual definition it's an all together different matter. Another bug -a-boo is the current usage, or , substituting of "issue" for what should rightly be "problem" or something similar.

[judetheobscure100]

I agree. The elision of usage has always been a challenge; but language is a living thing. The British can be a very negative: 'it'll never work', 'we tried that, it doesn't work', 'ye canna break the laws of physics'...I heard 'em all as a process developer. I determined not to be the same but it still took me to the age of 40 to mostly succeed. For this reason I don't have a problem with 'issues' or 'challenges'. To me these denote possibilities of resolution rather than barriers to progress.

[kevinneslund]

There is a good deal of rhetoric and bloviating. It is quite simple folks. When you increase the demand, which is what the President is proposing by providing health insurance coverage (at the TAXPAYER'S COST) to more people WITHOUT increasing the supply (DOCTORS) you have in reality not done what you have said you are doing. You HAVE, however, created another crisis by spending other peoples money (taxes) and, in addition, not allowing doctors to receive other forms of payment (medicare)

[judetheobscure100]

I think you've got this back-to-front. In simple economic terms the Demand is already there and CONSTANT...it includes more sick people than can afford to get treatment. The Supply is short...there aren't enough doctors and nurses. The result in classical economics of Large Demand and Short Supply is HIGH PRICES. Do you deny that healthcare is expensive and that therefore, according to simple, classical economics, if Demand is constant, it MUST be Short Supply that is the problem?

[kevinneslund]

Jude: I neglected to say I certainly agree with you concerning the shortage of doctors and nurses. What is of great concern is that our President and his supporters don't understand this. They don't understand the nomenclature of Economics, and, in this case, Healthcare economics. It's really not like splitting the atom or something similar. I can get teenagers to understand the rudiments of supply/demand.

[judetheobscure100]

To 1900AD they had classical physics explaining everything they knew UP TO THAT POINT. In 1905 Einstein came up with E=MC2 and blew away that certainty. Soon after came Quantum Physics in which Uncertainty WAS the underlying principle.

World Financial Markets depend on Sentiment. Where is 'Sentiment' in classical economics? Nowhere! Currently Uncertainty and Chaos rule; your classical economics may not actually apply and a new Quantum Economics is required to show if Obama is right or not.

[kevinneslund]

Jude: I'm hopelessly lost here trying to sort all these comments and responses out. Do you recall which one this corresponds to? Cheers ~

[judetheobscure100]

This follows directly on from your '...great deal of rhetoric and bloviating' and your references to Supply & Demand 6 para's above. I suggest that since your classical economics does NOT include the concept of Sentiment in the world's markets, yet Sentiment IS known to be a powerful controlling factor, that maybe, like classical vs quantum physics we need to be looking for a modern Quantum economics which includes Sentiment AND such a treatment MAY prove that Obama is right and you are wrong!

[patralink]

lucasagenda,

You are the lunatic. So what's your solution? You probably don't have the capacity to form a solution listening to fox "news" as you most likely do. Healthcare is broken in this country. It is dragging down our economy. More and more companies are unable to continue to provide health insurance to their employees and more and more families are going bankrupt even though the have medical insurance when they are faced with a medical crisis. Doing nothing is not an option. WAKE UP!

[sugarlandp]

Actually, doing nothing is a better option. Healthcare is NOT dragging the economy down (that was accomplished by Barney Frank and the boys igniting a housing bubble to buy votes). You must get all your news from the daily Obama press conferences.

Obama's plan will eliminate private insurance(you can't compete with free--see public school system), create long waits for care(people use free shit alot), and will result in rationing(costs will only be controlled by denying care).

[judetheobscure100]

the National Health Service in Britain, though with its problems (mainly overmanagement) has provided medical care 'free at the point of delivery' without fear or favour for over half a century and we can still afford to support America in Afghanistan and Iraq. It has saved countless lives, relieved millions in distress and provided free, life-saving medical treatment to innumerable American tourists. The fundamental measure of a society is how it treats its most vulnerable members.

[kevinneslund]

Be that as it may, here's a quick question for everyone: Where is it that people from the world over go to when they want the absolute best Medical care ? (I know, a rhetorical question) 'Nuff said.

[bigtex501]

Senate Democrats & obamer....

if this Health Care Reform package is so great for the taxpayers...... then I think that the "SENATE DEMOCRATS" & "OBAMER" should try this plan on themselves personally for 1 year!

If you still are in good health and can show that it's better than the doctors you have now, we'll be HAPPY to support this bill.

Senate Democrats & obamer... are you up for the challenge??????????

[TheLucasAgenda]

this guy is a fucking lunatic.

[ihatelifejosemartine]

Finally, national health care.

[tbackes]

you watch oprah too, dontcha! no such thing as something for nothing

[Fringe111]

Taxing the very rich to get this done is fine with me

[tbackes]

it will not stop at the "rich" do yourself a favor open up a newspaper besides the NY Post or washington times...an independent congressional commtee informed president obama that the new health care system would actually cost citizens more...good luck...enjoy the obama rock concert

[Fringe111]

Wrong, if we do nothing you'll see your premiums rise 3 fold and everyone knows that. If you're really interested in what's happening watch the press conference on wed, night

[Fringe111]

Con't. Stop listening to the scare tactics of the insurance companies. Their spending millions per day to end this thing but this time it won't happen.

[TrackRunnaBeatBoi]

tbackes,

Please tell me how adding a public option is going to cost citizens more?

Competition lowers prices. The only people angry at his plan Republicans with political motivation, people who don't like Obama personally, and Fox News.

Just look at Republican Senator Jim DeMint's comments "If were able to stop Obama on this, it will be his waterloo, it will break him"

They don't care about the citizens, it's all about defeating President Obama in 2012.

[kevinneslund]

Please do your work before posting special pleading comments. He (Obama) is rapidly losing support from not only Independants, but, Democrats as well. Not to mention what the head of The Congressional Budget Office has dismissed as a horrendous proposal. The President himself has now conceded that "his plan needs work".

[TrackRunnaBeatBoi]

Kevinneslund

The CBO report is misleading, it's based on an absence of new revenue coming into the treasury. It only looks at the money that's coming out.

According to the CBO, healthcare will cost 1.2 Trillion over the next 10 years.

If we tax the top 1.2% of income earners (as planned), that will bring in an estimated $544 Billion.

The Bush tax cuts cost us an estimated $715 Billion. When the tax cuts expire, that $715 Billion will go into the treasury.

[kevinneslund]

You bet. I'm sure they're (The CBO) behind a vast right-wing conspiracy to bury the President's glorious "healthcare plan". Besides, have you kept up with breaking news? There's now a majority opposition (53%) to it. It's history.

[kevinneslund]

I'm sorry. I should have asked you. There is a term for forcing someone to pay for someone else's bills. I'm certain you know what that is. It has been implemented with horrendous results around the world. To think that an American would even consider something like that is abominable.

[judetheobscure100]

The term for forcing someone to pay someone else's bills is called 'Taxation' and is in common use throughout the world leading to such outrages as public sewerage systems and even (shock- horror) paved roads. Next they'll want free education for the teeming masses, paid for with your tax dollars and the great unwashed will be able to read and understand the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution listing their rights...where will that end?

[kevinneslund]

Hi "Jude": I see you've either selective reading disorder or wee bit of the ol' ADD. The operative word to pay attention to is "bills" as in "someone else's BILLS". such as when an uninsured person goes into the ER with a gunshot wound. We treat them here in the states, and, those that DO have insurance end up paying it. Do you mean to tell me you're not aware of this? Our President would like to dramatically increase this situation. Brilliant huh? (p.s. I had alluded to Communism)

[TrackRunnaBeatBoi]

$715 Billion + $544 Billion = $1.2 Trillion

That's one fully funded "Public Option" health plan.

[judetheobscure100]

The 1842 Mines Act (Britain) made it illegal to employ children under the age of TWELVE in underground coal mines. Mine owners STATED that the LOSS of cheap child labour would '...DESTROY the mining industry'. It didn't.

When a Minimum Wage Act was passed in 1997 the CBI (organisation of Business Owners and Directors) STATED it would 'COST MILLIONS of JOBS'. Recognise the rhetoric? The following ten years (until sub-prime) saw the greatest expansion in jobs AND profits in a generation.

[judetheobscure100]

The Declaration of Independence states categorically and Americans have died to sustain, that there are certain inalienable rights, including (and so presumably not exclusively...my words) Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness.

Inalienable, presumably, denotes a responsibility on the part of the STATE to guarantee and protect those Rights? Health is oft a pre-requisite to Life. How do you guarantee and protect the Right to Life if it is dependent upon individual ability to pay for health?

[kevinneslund]

the Declaration has no authority in a court of law. The Constitution does. That is what elected officials swear to uphold. I did. Inerestingly, our founding fathers did not believe all men (races) were created equal, hence, entitled to equal protection. Moreover, if there is truly to be a perceived Right to life, how might one explain corporal punishment (the deat penalty) or abortion? Cheers~

[judetheobscure100]

when you refer to your 'founding fathers' are you refering to the Puritans who escaped England to be able to pursue their own Christian beliefs or to the patriots who declared Independence, fought a war to achieve liberty and created your Constitution?

I believe that some of those who framed the Declaration also framed the Constitution and that the Puritans had no hand in either, in which case I do not see the relevance of the founding fathers beliefs. See explanation of hijack for 'Rights'.

[judetheobscure100]

Now I'm completely confused: you're telling me that the Declaration is just a piece of paper written by some guys with mis-guided ideas, containing factual errors and therefore having neither moral nor legal force? I had thought it was more important to Americans than that: you learn something new every day!

Corporal punishment is the judicial infliction of pain as part of a rehabilitation process: I think you meant capital punishment (the death penalty) , yes?

More to follow...

[judetheobscure100]

In 1807 Parliament, reflecting the will of the British people that it was uncivilised to kidnap, trade and own slaves, passed the Slave Trade Act.

By the 1950s we decided it was similarly uncivilised for the state to take a person's life in retaliation for a crime, no matter how serious. The death penalty was officially abolished in Britain in 1965 but the last actual execution took place several years earlier in the 1950s.

Many parties predicted a massive surge in homicides...guess what?

[judetheobscure100]

That's right...it didn't happen. Thus I don't need to explain the death penalty; we don't have it.

To provide a balanced view, British homicide statistics show that our homicide rate HAS roughly doubled since the mid-1960s. It now stands at around 600 homicides a year over the whole COUNTRY...rather less than many major CITIES in the USA! Tell me we're doing something wrong.

Abortion I disagree with for the same reasons...it's uncivilised, but we do have it. I'll suggest to you a reason...

[judetheobscure100]

There is a certain class of people who believe that it is wrong for unmarried individuals to have sex. Mostly they claim to be Christians, Republicans or Tories (British Conservatives = Republicans politically speaking) or a combination of these. When they speak, however, they speak in words from the Old Testament. This reveals them for what they actually are. Now let me be clear; I am NOT speaking anti-semitically, I am speaking of religion and politics...cont

[judetheobscure100]

The religion and politics of the Old Testament are those of the ancient Jews. Those who cling to 'eye-for-an-eye' have still not grasped the fact that when Jesus announced the New Testament he announced a New Compact between God and Man that superceded the Old Testament. Jesus states this categorically: '...I...am the Way, the Truth and the Life'. Actually read the New Testament, rather than listening to the select quotations of your ministers and politicians and verify this fact for yourself.

[kevinneslund]

I agree. However, "The ancient Jews"? what? You are confusing the tribe of Judah with the Israelites. There were twelve tribes in case you forgot. In fact, the first mention of Judah is their being at war with Israel. Cheers mate ~

[judetheobscure100]

I am surprised and gratified that you agree so readily with my proposition re fundamentalist politics. I must advise you I am NOT confusing the Tribe of Judah with Israelites. I did not mention Israel or Israelites. I refer to Yahweh's Chosen People of whom the Old Testament is one history and whose descendants are known by their culture and religion as Jews, wherever they live. I think you may be trying to imply confusion where none exists in an effort to vitiate my points made elsewhere?

[kevinneslund]

Jude: Might I simply point out your own words. The first sentence of the aforementioned comment. "The religion and politics of the Old Testament are those of the ancient Jews". That's singular and exclusive and it's inaccurate. You are of course aware that the word "Jew" wasn't even used in the Old Testament until the advent of the patriarch Judah are you not? Cheers ~

[kevinneslund]

Hi Jude: I've gotta ask you. Are you Jewish? Please say no because if you were, or, if you knew the Biblical description of the Jews you'd know that they are from a Biblical perspective purely an ethnicity and that you can not claim Biblical authority for saying Judaism is a "religion". Any Rabbi will concede this as will anyone who is Biblically astute. Just wanted to share that with you. We can learn from each other. No attempt to discredit or vitiate your comments kind sir. Cheers ~

[judetheobscure100]

hi Kevin: this impasse is partly my own fault because I have pussy-footed around using the terms Judeo-Christian or Christian Fundamentalist. When you listen to a Fundamentalist Preacher / Politician their terminology is rooted firmly in Old Testament text. They pay lip-service to Jesus but prefer Old Testament tenets to the teachings of Jesus, which are often diametrically opposite. Jesus is not about power or profit and therefore not conducive to the Fundamentalist viewpoint.

[kevinneslund]

Amen to that. I could go even further. It's nothing short of appalling, the depravity of historical support and general understanding of how to rightly divide the Scriptures among those who are supposed to be Shepherds. Ministers! I guess that is why so many are dropping out of organized churches/organized religion and returning to God. Cheers ~

[judetheobscure100]

Now, this class of persons hold sway in politics in the USA (slightly less so here) and because it is WRONG for unmarried people to officially have sex they have made it as difficult as possible for young people to receive proper sex education AND for them to have access to prophylactics on the grounds that if you do so you are PROMOTING wrongdoing.

It is clear that you cannot stop people 'doing what comes naturally' and / or what they enjoy...remember the Volstead Act and what that led to?

[judetheobscure100]

The inevitable, proven, result is an epidemic of sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies, which latter, given the state of modern medicine, leads to abortions. QED

Is it a coincidence that the same class of people are most resistant to any degree of socialisation, their attitudes being locked in the pre-Christian Era, when a man's destiny was written in stone and a low station in life the result of Original Sin for which he must atone with the patience of Job?

[kevinneslund]

Jude: I'm not sure which comment of mine this was in response to. Do you recall? I did notice though, that you mentioned "unwanted pregnancies"? Help me here if you will, but, if a woman doesn't want to become pregnant, well, doesn't it make sense to take the appropriate steps so she WON'T BECOME SO? It's garage logic.

[judetheobscure100]

You make several points per post and the answer to one has to be pared to the bone for the character allowance. 'Unwanted pregnancies' refers to your problem of squaring capital punishment and abortion with a Right to Life. Many unwanted pregnancies result from the lack of school sex education policy and access to prophylactics due to the political power of fundamentalist religion i.e. stuck in the Old Testament. There is a large underclass to whom garage logic or cash for condoms are a stretch.

[kevinneslund]

We need Schools to tell kids this stuff? what? It is the parents responsibility. Do you disagree? Are you actually attempting to blame schools for young women getting pregnant because THEY (schools) didn't TELL them what to do? That is disturbing and might I respectfully add: Idiotic. I mean, come on for pete's sake. What do you think a family is for?

[judetheobscure100]

Reality Check! Blame has nothing to do with it. Gov't doesn't wait for families to meet their responsibility to pay taxes out of wages and salaries AFTER payday, gov't takes them from pay packets beforehand; where is trust to responsibility here?

Families rarely meet ALL their responsibilities to children at all times: some none at all. It is the FUNCTION of schools to educate; sex education needs to be taught. If parents fail in this responsibility who is better placed than schools? Simple!

[judetheobscure100]

I could ask you if you think it is right to leave children entirely to the viscisitudes of a totally dysfunctional family and do away with e.g. Childrens Services for the protection of abused children?

Cain in reply to a similar question replied, 'Am I my brother's keeper?' We have to assume from the context that the Questioner AND the modern reader would agree that Cain was indeed responsible, to an extent, for his brother's well-being...or lack of it. What is your view?

[kevinneslund]

I warmly appreciate your intellectual candor. However, something of this nature would be better suited over a cup of coffee or tea. This isn't really the venue to get into such deeply involved brain-storming and symposium-style inquiries. Once again, I sincerely do appreciate your scholarly insight. Cheers ~