Although I like the goidelics too,as I love all Celtia, I confess the brittonic branch is my beloved one in the celtic tongues and to know there is another brittonic standing a chance to be revived,together with Cumbric, I feel happy and hopeful !
Diolch am hynny. I never heard of this language until today, and watching this video, either. But it sounds rather similar to Welsh. By the way, I am an Englishman living in Hungary, but I did Welsh A level when I was living in Bangor.
So, when was this spoken, when did it die out, are there still any speakers? So many questions! (Deunansek sounds perfectly Celtic to me.)
Devonian isn't and has never been a language, it was a dialect of Old Cornish and nothing more. It is like declaring Somerset or Newcastle to be a language, when the manners of speaking there are only dialects of English. Every county, town and village has its own variations, but a dialect and a language are completely different. People in Devon and Cornwall are not Celts anymore either, they've been under English education and rule for too long. It's like saying I'm Roman or Iceni!
@petitanglais o dear my cornish relatives still retained cornish language phrases and attend festivals you have never heard of.......STOP FUCKING TELLING US WHO WE ARE AND LEAD YOUR OWN FUCKING LIFE IN PEACE OK BROTHER ;).....its the english who have lost their original celtic souls :)...at least celts protected disabled and orphans unlike other nations
@3tangle3 Someone's got some anger management issues, haven't they! Not to mention racist and with deep-rooted insecurities about your identity - claiming you are Celtic because Cornwall was once a Celtic land is like Americans who claim to be Irish because one relative 400 years ago settled there! Your apparent 'facts' are pure speculation. And what's this nonsense about the disabled and orphans? How do you have the nerve to just make this shit up?!
@3tangle3 Territories have been taken over throughout history and new cultures have then developed. The Celtic tribes had developed from other tribes (linguistically, culturally, physically etc) and they in turn morphed into something else from the influence of the Anglo-Saxons, the French, the English and other migration. A Cornishman of today can no longer claim to be any more Celtic than an Englishman from Essex can claim to be Iceni!
@3tangle3 If you live in a hut, make arrows from flint, wear a tunic, speak an original Celtic language and live nomadically, then you can be a Celt. If you don't like to be told what you are, then you shouldn't claim to be something that hasn't existed for centuries. It just makes you look uninformed and oddly desperate, especially when you have based your identity on a determination to be as un-English as possible. My dad's Welsh and I was born there, but I am not a Celt - it doesn't exist!
@petitanglais whatever mate....whats your alternative....we are all forced to speak english in this world and weear the same clothes and eat the same food......goodnight
@petitanglais you are a fucking fool celts are the people of whale ,angle&saxons are from friesland they are germanic dear god wake up FOOL GET THE FUCK OUT OF WHALES IF YOUR NOT CELTIC
@dagnab1 Hmm. Whales? I didn't know ocean-dwelling species were Celts. Maybe you should try going to school and learn to spell before you start trying to make comments. Presumably you should also leave Wales too as you aren't a Celt because Celts don't exist anymore (see above discussion, read, learn, understand and then disappear). Celtic languages, yes, very much so, Celtic people, nah. I do pity people who are too blinded by internal identity issues to understand facts of life.
@petitanglais you are still a fool celts dont exist wow here we all still are fool my fathers last name comes from gaul and i dont exist my mum 's last name over 1700 years old in ireland and we dont exist .Soon that witch you deserve will come to you FOOL,FRIESIAN ANGLE TRASH
As you write in the video, it wouldn't be Aberplym as this is the English name of the river and isn't even the Anglo Saxon name which has been lost. There are some place names along the river which suggest that the river may have been called "Cat" or "Cad" such as Cadover Bridge. This could be the old Celtic name for the river. If so, then Plymouth could be called "Abercad" / "Abergad"
I'm going to study Celtic philology at my University in Italy(a country with no interests in Celtic languages -.-") but I realy DIDN'T KNOW about Dewnansek (I love the -ek/ -eg / -ge / -gh that indicates a language :))
WOW Map=son like in the old names of the Cumbric celtic lords... I think I'm gonna bursy for happiness :D
THANKS THANKS THANKS
GO RAIBH MILE AGAT!!! ( I can speak only little Irish), and Cymru ar byth!
I asked my grandma who lives in a small village just outside Bideford about this and she said she knew someone in the village a long time ago who spoke devonian. It's strange that nobody really knows about it!
Wow, so many native English speakers here and NONE has noticed that you had written "it's own language". It seems you need us foreigners to sort out your spelling problems. :P
heyy wouldn't 'I speak' more likely be 'Lafaramh or lafaram', considering that the 'v/f' first person ending in Cornish and Welsh came from an 'm'? I believe it is 'n' in Breton?
Quite possibly. Good shout actually but I think with Devonian being a Brythonic language/dialect, and the -m / -mh being a Gaelic thing, I'd stick to the -f/-v. To be honest, it wouldn't change how you said the word anyway
@stecymru14 sources say ppl spoke brythonic right up until 9th century in dorset and held strongly in devon uplands after that.....its took King Æthelred (correct if wrong)....who banished all brythons to west of the tamar......setting up the cultural border seen today such as in place names
@CheeseMusket No it doesnt. My mother's maiden name is from norfolk but she and her ancestors are as kentish as you can get. Its retarded to think that you are from a certain place just because of a second name.
Also, chances are it is not your ancestor's name because it is probably a place in america aswell, and you are probably only 5% english because of the racial demographics of america.
Interesting, however it seems much of the division is based on modern geographical borders. Cornwall once extended far into what is modern devon and before that it was all dumnonia. The word 'Celt' is also somewhat suspect as it has only come into use fairly recently and rather than being based on the European cultures which the term was originally applied to it seems to have been adopted and made exclusive to the British Isles.
But here's to diversity, it's always a good thing!
Y Ddyfnanteg (Devonian) it is called in Welsh. But come on, this is really pushing it now.... Sorry, this and "West Country Brythonic" are one and the same. You can see now a clear split between Welsh and Cornish. Breton and Cornish are closer to each other than Welsh and Cornish are. But to say that Devonian is a language separate from Cornish is nonsense.
Dere mlan ychan, paid a malu cachu nawr ambytu'r Ddyfnanteg yma. hahahahahaha
I think it would be great if every one spoke english, but we all had our own regional languages. much like the Dutch. I think co operation and understanding is crucial, but also regional flavour is important. As we become more post industrial, the more we realise what weve lost and what weve gained. Hopefully post modernism will work more on balancing regional community with global community.
Devonian would be nothing more than a slight variation of Cornish with very little difference given that both came from the ancient language 'Brythonic' which was spoken before the English/Anglo-Saxon invasion
Sorry but myself being a philologist, I have never heard of such a language as Devonian. Of Cornish - sure, but Devonian... Don't you think you just take some dialect of Cornish for a separate language? Or if it is really a 'language' what can it be proved with? Some of your family members can understand or remembers it? Or did you found some written sources in it... literature, poetry etc. Or it is mentioned in some ancient cronicles... like Roman or Medieval?
"Celtic borders" on British Islands go wider and wider. It's probably a reconquest of something that wasn't Saxon before. "Celtic" economies r relatively booming thus making about 13 million (!) of british citizens to proclaim they r of celtic descent.
yeah, I was watching a program and it said that the british are still mostly gentically related to the orginal settlers. So all the people like welsh adn Cornish that say us English are foreign Anglo-saxons are ogften wrong, cos according to this program English blood is still got a lot of Celtic. Obviously more to the west. Like there was that study of the skull in Cheddar caves somerset which found modern maternal DNA of the villagers were very similar to the skull.
Well...Actually, we call it (Anglo)Saxon culture and bla-bla-bla, but - in my point of view! - there's not that much visual and spiritual traces of it on British (!) Islands. I cannot explain it - it's just a feeling! Brontë, Shakespeare, Helloween, Stonehedge, dragons, face types, folk music, colours, greenery, etc. - that all has almost nothing to do saxon "continental" culture! Got me?
Yeah that's what I mean, I don't think that us English are a big difference than other British people...Dunno where ur from BTW, I'll look, I love celtic culture, can't wait till halloween :)
Yeah, we do - though it's not that "authentic" as it is in Britain!
Concerning our English - it's so-o-o far away from what U normally speak, but we try. (Actually, English is the must at our schools - that's, probably, why).
As far as I know,from what you wrote, in your dna,you are 100% celt!Just let it "sprout"in you !It´s in your blood,actually you´re more celt than many,cause you are a "pan"celt mix!
Good point there, mawkernewek. Given that the people of Devon & Cornwall once spoke the same language, Brythonic, it is likely that there's little or no difference whatsoever. Therefore I too question whether or not there was a seperate language of 'Devonian'. The language we know today as 'Cornish' is only called so because that is where it has survived to the present day. The language itself would have been spoken throughout the Westcountry (Dumnonii) before the English invaded 1500 years ago
I tend to agree. "Devonian" would have most likely been an eastern dialect of what later came to be known as Cornish, itself once known as West Welsh or Conovian Welsh.
Please view my celtic channel for traditional,modern music in the celtic languages, dance,culture,history and much more from all the celtic cousins :)
Any place name ending in -coombe or -tor is Celtic & there's more in Devon than Cornwall! Indeed a Celtic language was once spoken by the Devonians, Brythonic. This was the language of the native Britons, & in Cornwall too before the Anglo-Saxons invaded from overseas in the 6th century. Cornish is just a modernised version of the language that survived, there was no such language as Devonian. However, the people of West Devon are genetically Celtic & no different to the Cornish, like it or not!
But how anyone can claim "I'm Celtic because I'm from Cornwall and you're not" is rubbish. I'm English, but my parents are from Wales and Scotland, and their ancestors from Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, Ireland the Isle of Man and all other places in the British isles, so, surely I'm Celtic, too?
Maybe you are. But being 'Celtic' isnt about living in the right areas for all you know your ansestors would be english. For example loooads of English ppl went to the mines to work in WAles. But being Celtic isnt only about living in the right place, its having the Celtic spirit... having a patriotic heart and to have the patience to learn such hard languages just so you can say 'Now I AM Celtic and f*cking proud.' All Celtic comunities have pride in their members and what they have inherited.
Also, I forgot to say, the last dna analysis made in celtic regions showed some clear miscigenation,with other peoples and we know some Swedish have celtic genes due to the celtic slaves brought there in the vikking age,etc.
@ColonelColostomy celtic has got nothing to do with race i agree....its cultural and even then the word hides the real names of brythonic and godeilic...
@JonnyLightning meh...but the average bloke on the street lets be frank.........no one cares enough to delve deeper and lump everything into one amorpic mess ..c'est la vie
As for the Devon flag, like all flags someone sat down and made it up, like the Basque flag and like the South African flag, doesn't make it any less of a flag if people choose to fly it, many people on here seem very paranoid about the motives of complex identities which exist in modern Britain including in Devon. We all know modern 'England' is not the same everywhere. Be Cornish a proud and stop judging others.
I believe Devonian in this instance also means Dumnonian. And there is little doubt that a Brythonic tongue was spoken in the south west peninsular where today we have modern Devon, prior to the arrival of the Saxons but also spoken alongside early English. I believe this text is from a Welshman who has tried to recreate the essence of the language by looking at other brythonic languages.
There's plenty of evidence, mawkernewek. First the fact that genetic surveys have found most West-Devonians to be of Celtic decent. Second, the fact that Devon has more place names of Celtic origin than any other county (e.g: -coombe & -tor). Then there's the many ancient Celtic village sites across Devon such as Merrivale.
The Devonian language evolved from Brythonic, the language of the native Britons prior to the Anglo-Saxon invasion. Cornish also came from this language & is very similar.
I don't doubt that there are some Celtic names in Devon. However the numbers are tiny compared to Cornwall. So a Celtic language was once spoken there. However what evidence is there that it was a distinct language from Cornish?
" the numbers are tiny compared to Cornwall." - although they're also large compared to south east England... I suspect Cumbria, though, is more Celtic than Devon. It was speaking Brythonic after the Norman conquest.
The thing about Devonian though, is that no one is using it or developing it. Who speaks it? I mean, where are the phrases for "Hello, how are you?"
There was a version of the Lord's prayer online which appeared to be mainly Cornish respelt.
What evidence is there that Devonian was ever a separate language from Old Cornish? Since there are no texts or inscriptions in the language I assume none. All this Celtic Devon malarkey is just made up to make us Cornish look silly. You realise the Devon flag was only created a few years ago as a result of a BBC competition. An obvious rip-off of the Cornish one.
That's funny, as Devonian is nothing but a hoax. Celtic hasn't been spoken in Devon for some 700 years, and it would've been identical to medieval Cornish as one was just an extension of another. As for Ulster Scots, of course it's not a language. At best it's just a dialect of Scots.
Wow in Polish language we say mama-mam, tata-tat, Devoński-Devonsek ,Pan-Pemn, Kornwalia- Kernow, I don't know what is this language but i see that have a very to do with Polish, even Devoński-Devonsek ending gramatic is similar:) And I know that abaut 1000 years ago before Poland became a coutry there live some Celtic people with Slavic, and they asimilate. So the language mayby to:)
Well, the Celtic and Slavic languages have a common ancestor many thousands of years ago in the form of Proto-Indo-European, and basic words like mother and father share common roots across most European languages. Kern was combined with Latin "Gallia", since the people were Celtic (as were the people in Gaul - modern day France) which gave Cornvallia in Latin.
The Brythonic languages can (with slight learning) can read the other languages ok and the Gaelics can do the same. When Brythonic tries to read Gaelic (and vice versa) it becomes harder.
@ErasmusPrime239 yes to the same extent that German and most Scandinavian people people can pick up English very easily as English/Anglo Saxon contains a lot of Germanic roots, I can't explain why English people in general are such Monoglots, maybe Imperialism has something to do with it ? Le dea guí ó Éireann ( best wishes from Ireland)
Well, consider the origins of English. Unlike Irish or German, who derive most of their language from their respective language groups, English is a conglomeration of at least 3 different branches (Germanic, Italic, and a little Celtic). So unlike learning Dutch from German, where there is already a nearly identical system in place, learning Dutch from English almost forces you to start from scratch.
That, and (in America at least), the people tend to be unscholarly assholes.
The book by Joseph Biddulph is the linguistic equivalent of alternative therapists who create a therapy that appeals to the population, are regarded as scientists/experts by uninformed members of the public and media, but have to self publish/communicate directly with the public, because in academic circles the evidence and claims would be laughable.
I know what Pow Saws is and I also know what Wales is in Cornish....
There has been word that Old Devonian (Deunansek Koth) was just a dialect of Old Cornish but there is alot of difference between Cornish and Old Devonian words....
I have a bok right next to me explaining how Devon is Celtic and has a Celtic language....
Not only are there no texts to base a language on there are no historical references to a 'devonian' language per se. The closest would be a hypothetical southwestern dialect of Brythonic, which would really predate the existence of 'devon' and cover a much larger area.
Bheul tá sé suimiúil (an stór), sea ach tá Deunansek díobhaí, marbh... Cha bhféadaim ag labhairt é fosta! An bhfuil tú ag labhairt as Gaelig (na hAlba)? Is féidir liom ag caint as Gaeilg!!! Wú!!!
I don't really see how anyone can learn to speak 'Deunansek'. We don't know much about the grammar and syntax of the Brythonic dialect spoken in Devon in the dark ages, since there are no substantial texts in either Cornish or Breton until the 15th century.
The Old Cornish and Old Breton manuscripts are latin glosses and a few margin notes.
Deunansek isn't an attested language. It is based on a partial reconstruction based on Cornish and Breton by an amateur linguist.
There are no surviving texts written in the language, so we have no evidence that it was at any time a distinct language from primitive Cornish peculiar to Devon.
I have posted a Cwmbraic video. Thank you for the numbers though. These numbers are ones used today, I think the ones used in the original language where slightly different and more similar to Cymraeg. Check out my Cwmbraic video.
I have not heard of Devonian before But I have heard of Cumbric and Glaswgow Gaelic but they are both gone.But I could give some numbers in Cumbric if you want,Kent had it's own Celtic Language but it died out as well.
'Kent' is from a Celtic word probably meaning 'border' or 'rim' according to David Crystal, the renowned WELSH linguist from Anglesey (who doesn't speak Welsh though).
ha, my name is devon :D
oc0b 1 week ago
dydh da en oll res ew skriva "DewnanTeg" dre ma an yeth dha Dewnans so un predenek gan "t" hag "S" hebed !
brittanymodels 1 week ago
Although I like the goidelics too,as I love all Celtia, I confess the brittonic branch is my beloved one in the celtic tongues and to know there is another brittonic standing a chance to be revived,together with Cumbric, I feel happy and hopeful !
Gwynsek 3 months ago
Oh this is majestic,hope Devonian revives too !!!
Gwynsek 3 months ago
Diolch am hynny. I never heard of this language until today, and watching this video, either. But it sounds rather similar to Welsh. By the way, I am an Englishman living in Hungary, but I did Welsh A level when I was living in Bangor.
So, when was this spoken, when did it die out, are there still any speakers? So many questions! (Deunansek sounds perfectly Celtic to me.)
athb4hu 3 months ago
An dewnanseg a zo evel ar brezoneg.
Lou devounian es coumo lou bretoun.
tad, mamm, mab...
nameid ar skritur a zo eun tammig dishanval.
I o sounque l'escrituro qu'is un pauc diferento.
AlanBroc 6 months ago
wow i did not know of this language seems similar to Cornish as i am a learning Cornish good luck with learning it guys
fuck all the English haters Cornwall isnt England im not sure about Devon history as i haven't read up about it but good luck with learning this
Pro13east 7 months ago
is Devonian closer to Cornish or to Welsh
xhemexx 7 months ago
Does any one know were you learn more on Deunansek ether in books or on the web
DickJGrayson 8 months ago
Dad is devonian and Irish mum is cumbric and Scottish mostly Celtic with some Dane in me as well
tchorveiik 8 months ago
Separate identity for Devonian!
Separate identity for Cornwall!
Separate identity for Scousers!
We all have our own flags!
We all have our own origins!
None of us are Engaylish!
Support our separate identities!!!!
Lets all do our bit for it and stop the english from undermining our identity!
Englanistan 11 months ago
We are Devonian not Engaylish!
The Cornish (Kernow) are seen as not Engaylish, the Scousers are seen as not Engaylish, so Devonians are just as not English as them.
We even all have our own flags.
TheFatalInstinct1 1 year ago
Devonian isn't and has never been a language, it was a dialect of Old Cornish and nothing more. It is like declaring Somerset or Newcastle to be a language, when the manners of speaking there are only dialects of English. Every county, town and village has its own variations, but a dialect and a language are completely different. People in Devon and Cornwall are not Celts anymore either, they've been under English education and rule for too long. It's like saying I'm Roman or Iceni!
petitanglais 1 year ago
@petitanglais o dear my cornish relatives still retained cornish language phrases and attend festivals you have never heard of.......STOP FUCKING TELLING US WHO WE ARE AND LEAD YOUR OWN FUCKING LIFE IN PEACE OK BROTHER ;).....its the english who have lost their original celtic souls :)...at least celts protected disabled and orphans unlike other nations
3tangle3 1 year ago
@3tangle3 Someone's got some anger management issues, haven't they! Not to mention racist and with deep-rooted insecurities about your identity - claiming you are Celtic because Cornwall was once a Celtic land is like Americans who claim to be Irish because one relative 400 years ago settled there! Your apparent 'facts' are pure speculation. And what's this nonsense about the disabled and orphans? How do you have the nerve to just make this shit up?!
petitanglais 1 year ago
@3tangle3 Territories have been taken over throughout history and new cultures have then developed. The Celtic tribes had developed from other tribes (linguistically, culturally, physically etc) and they in turn morphed into something else from the influence of the Anglo-Saxons, the French, the English and other migration. A Cornishman of today can no longer claim to be any more Celtic than an Englishman from Essex can claim to be Iceni!
petitanglais 1 year ago
@3tangle3 If you live in a hut, make arrows from flint, wear a tunic, speak an original Celtic language and live nomadically, then you can be a Celt. If you don't like to be told what you are, then you shouldn't claim to be something that hasn't existed for centuries. It just makes you look uninformed and oddly desperate, especially when you have based your identity on a determination to be as un-English as possible. My dad's Welsh and I was born there, but I am not a Celt - it doesn't exist!
petitanglais 1 year ago
@petitanglais whatever mate....whats your alternative....we are all forced to speak english in this world and weear the same clothes and eat the same food......goodnight
3tangle3 1 year ago
@petitanglais you are a fucking fool celts are the people of whale ,angle&saxons are from friesland they are germanic dear god wake up FOOL GET THE FUCK OUT OF WHALES IF YOUR NOT CELTIC
dagnab1 5 months ago
@dagnab1 Hmm. Whales? I didn't know ocean-dwelling species were Celts. Maybe you should try going to school and learn to spell before you start trying to make comments. Presumably you should also leave Wales too as you aren't a Celt because Celts don't exist anymore (see above discussion, read, learn, understand and then disappear). Celtic languages, yes, very much so, Celtic people, nah. I do pity people who are too blinded by internal identity issues to understand facts of life.
petitanglais 5 months ago
@petitanglais you are still a fool celts dont exist wow here we all still are fool my fathers last name comes from gaul and i dont exist my mum 's last name over 1700 years old in ireland and we dont exist .Soon that witch you deserve will come to you FOOL,FRIESIAN ANGLE TRASH
dagnab1 5 months ago
As you write in the video, it wouldn't be Aberplym as this is the English name of the river and isn't even the Anglo Saxon name which has been lost. There are some place names along the river which suggest that the river may have been called "Cat" or "Cad" such as Cadover Bridge. This could be the old Celtic name for the river. If so, then Plymouth could be called "Abercad" / "Abergad"
jonstfrancis 1 year ago
MAN I LOVE YOU
I'm going to study Celtic philology at my University in Italy(a country with no interests in Celtic languages -.-") but I realy DIDN'T KNOW about Dewnansek (I love the -ek/ -eg / -ge / -gh that indicates a language :))
WOW Map=son like in the old names of the Cumbric celtic lords... I think I'm gonna bursy for happiness :D
THANKS THANKS THANKS
GO RAIBH MILE AGAT!!! ( I can speak only little Irish), and Cymru ar byth!
CaradocMorDellOboe 1 year ago
I asked my grandma who lives in a small village just outside Bideford about this and she said she knew someone in the village a long time ago who spoke devonian. It's strange that nobody really knows about it!
overgrowneden 1 year ago
Wow, so many native English speakers here and NONE has noticed that you had written "it's own language". It seems you need us foreigners to sort out your spelling problems. :P
caramandere 1 year ago
Your wrong about Barum. This is a roman name given to Barnstaple not of celtic origin. Locals still call it Barum today (if your a proper local!)
upstairscharly 1 year ago
heyy wouldn't 'I speak' more likely be 'Lafaramh or lafaram', considering that the 'v/f' first person ending in Cornish and Welsh came from an 'm'? I believe it is 'n' in Breton?
Maenofferen 1 year ago
Quite possibly. Good shout actually but I think with Devonian being a Brythonic language/dialect, and the -m / -mh being a Gaelic thing, I'd stick to the -f/-v. To be honest, it wouldn't change how you said the word anyway
stecymru14 1 year ago
@stecymru14 sources say ppl spoke brythonic right up until 9th century in dorset and held strongly in devon uplands after that.....its took King Æthelred (correct if wrong)....who banished all brythons to west of the tamar......setting up the cultural border seen today such as in place names
3tangle3 1 year ago
@CheeseMusket No it doesnt. My mother's maiden name is from norfolk but she and her ancestors are as kentish as you can get. Its retarded to think that you are from a certain place just because of a second name.
Also, chances are it is not your ancestor's name because it is probably a place in america aswell, and you are probably only 5% english because of the racial demographics of america.
Pawnbroker00 1 year ago
wow cooool
Olekander 1 year ago
Interesting, however it seems much of the division is based on modern geographical borders. Cornwall once extended far into what is modern devon and before that it was all dumnonia. The word 'Celt' is also somewhat suspect as it has only come into use fairly recently and rather than being based on the European cultures which the term was originally applied to it seems to have been adopted and made exclusive to the British Isles.
But here's to diversity, it's always a good thing!
danstormer 1 year ago
A Devonian language? Never heard of it and I'm Devonian! (also English)
reevesc1986 1 year ago
Y Ddyfnanteg (Devonian) it is called in Welsh. But come on, this is really pushing it now.... Sorry, this and "West Country Brythonic" are one and the same. You can see now a clear split between Welsh and Cornish. Breton and Cornish are closer to each other than Welsh and Cornish are. But to say that Devonian is a language separate from Cornish is nonsense.
Dere mlan ychan, paid a malu cachu nawr ambytu'r Ddyfnanteg yma. hahahahahaha
knoxwilliam 1 year ago
I think it would be great if every one spoke english, but we all had our own regional languages. much like the Dutch. I think co operation and understanding is crucial, but also regional flavour is important. As we become more post industrial, the more we realise what weve lost and what weve gained. Hopefully post modernism will work more on balancing regional community with global community.
Veruvir 2 years ago
Devonian would be nothing more than a slight variation of Cornish with very little difference given that both came from the ancient language 'Brythonic' which was spoken before the English/Anglo-Saxon invasion
CyberfoxAndy 2 years ago
Sorry but myself being a philologist, I have never heard of such a language as Devonian. Of Cornish - sure, but Devonian... Don't you think you just take some dialect of Cornish for a separate language? Or if it is really a 'language' what can it be proved with? Some of your family members can understand or remembers it? Or did you found some written sources in it... literature, poetry etc. Or it is mentioned in some ancient cronicles... like Roman or Medieval?
GenyoSevdaliya 2 years ago
Deunansek?! Sounds Scandinavian or something...why not do a video about Cumbric? Another Brythonic language that existed in what became England!
salfordsredarmy 2 years ago
I have :)
stecymru14 2 years ago
@salfordsredarmy Cannot sound scandinavian it's a celtic language :P couldn't be more different lol .
Olekander 1 year ago
"Celtic borders" on British Islands go wider and wider. It's probably a reconquest of something that wasn't Saxon before. "Celtic" economies r relatively booming thus making about 13 million (!) of british citizens to proclaim they r of celtic descent.
Hollandia777 2 years ago
yeah, I was watching a program and it said that the british are still mostly gentically related to the orginal settlers. So all the people like welsh adn Cornish that say us English are foreign Anglo-saxons are ogften wrong, cos according to this program English blood is still got a lot of Celtic. Obviously more to the west. Like there was that study of the skull in Cheddar caves somerset which found modern maternal DNA of the villagers were very similar to the skull.
22poopoo 2 years ago
Well...Actually, we call it (Anglo)Saxon culture and bla-bla-bla, but - in my point of view! - there's not that much visual and spiritual traces of it on British (!) Islands. I cannot explain it - it's just a feeling! Brontë, Shakespeare, Helloween, Stonehedge, dragons, face types, folk music, colours, greenery, etc. - that all has almost nothing to do saxon "continental" culture! Got me?
Hollandia777 2 years ago
Yeah that's what I mean, I don't think that us English are a big difference than other British people...Dunno where ur from BTW, I'll look, I love celtic culture, can't wait till halloween :)
22poopoo 2 years ago
Oh ur Dutch, I suppose ur username suggests it!lol
22poopoo 2 years ago
A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y!
Hollandia777 2 years ago
Haha, do you celebrate halloween much in Holland?
also why are you dutch always so good at English?
22poopoo 2 years ago
Yeah, we do - though it's not that "authentic" as it is in Britain!
Concerning our English - it's so-o-o far away from what U normally speak, but we try. (Actually, English is the must at our schools - that's, probably, why).
Hollandia777 2 years ago
No bobbing for apples? shame.
Well of course, it's not how we speak it. But you all speak it well and understand it well.
22poopoo 2 years ago
R u a native Briton? (U sound bit strange that's why).
Hollandia777 2 years ago
do i? cheers for that?? Yes I am
22poopoo 2 years ago
OK!
Hollandia777 2 years ago
The Slovenian language is also composed of celtick language
we have a place which is called Celje during the Celts they called the city Keleja
The Romans named the city Celeia
DexAiArthur 2 years ago
There is no such language as Devonian.
kerhk 2 years ago
As far as I know,from what you wrote, in your dna,you are 100% celt!Just let it "sprout"in you !It´s in your blood,actually you´re more celt than many,cause you are a "pan"celt mix!
Gwynsek 3 years ago
Good point there, mawkernewek. Given that the people of Devon & Cornwall once spoke the same language, Brythonic, it is likely that there's little or no difference whatsoever. Therefore I too question whether or not there was a seperate language of 'Devonian'. The language we know today as 'Cornish' is only called so because that is where it has survived to the present day. The language itself would have been spoken throughout the Westcountry (Dumnonii) before the English invaded 1500 years ago
CyberfoxAndy 3 years ago
I tend to agree. "Devonian" would have most likely been an eastern dialect of what later came to be known as Cornish, itself once known as West Welsh or Conovian Welsh.
Brythonek 2 years ago
Please view my celtic channel for traditional,modern music in the celtic languages, dance,culture,history and much more from all the celtic cousins :)
cosinbrother 3 years ago
Any place name ending in -coombe or -tor is Celtic & there's more in Devon than Cornwall! Indeed a Celtic language was once spoken by the Devonians, Brythonic. This was the language of the native Britons, & in Cornwall too before the Anglo-Saxons invaded from overseas in the 6th century. Cornish is just a modernised version of the language that survived, there was no such language as Devonian. However, the people of West Devon are genetically Celtic & no different to the Cornish, like it or not!
CyberfoxAndy 3 years ago
"Any place name ending in -coombe or -tor is Celtic "
Both of these words are indeed Celtic, but if the names were really that Celtic, they would be PREfixes, not suffixes!
BobMonkfish 2 years ago
Please could you say more about this point, as in old Breton, suffixes are in the reverse order to the modern Breton.
For instance : Kosporz (old yard) is "porzh kozh" ("yard old") in modern Breton.
So I am not sure the order has always been the same over centuries.
hanterkant 2 years ago
spero meliora that is something in celtic
ridwickthedragon 3 years ago
But how anyone can claim "I'm Celtic because I'm from Cornwall and you're not" is rubbish. I'm English, but my parents are from Wales and Scotland, and their ancestors from Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, Ireland the Isle of Man and all other places in the British isles, so, surely I'm Celtic, too?
LadfromEngland 3 years ago 2
Maybe you are. But being 'Celtic' isnt about living in the right areas for all you know your ansestors would be english. For example loooads of English ppl went to the mines to work in WAles. But being Celtic isnt only about living in the right place, its having the Celtic spirit... having a patriotic heart and to have the patience to learn such hard languages just so you can say 'Now I AM Celtic and f*cking proud.' All Celtic comunities have pride in their members and what they have inherited.
DOO1 3 years ago
Also, I forgot to say, the last dna analysis made in celtic regions showed some clear miscigenation,with other peoples and we know some Swedish have celtic genes due to the celtic slaves brought there in the vikking age,etc.
Gwynsek 3 years ago
@LadfromEngland Celtic is not a race.
ColonelColostomy 1 year ago
@ColonelColostomy celtic has got nothing to do with race i agree....its cultural and even then the word hides the real names of brythonic and godeilic...
3tangle3 1 year ago
@3tangle3
It doesn't "hide" anything, it is the official name of the language family of which the Brythonic and Godeilic languages are apart of.
JonnyLightning 1 year ago
@JonnyLightning meh...but the average bloke on the street lets be frank.........no one cares enough to delve deeper and lump everything into one amorpic mess ..c'est la vie
3tangle3 1 year ago
@LadfromEngland the word celtic should be removed as its very vague word....its specifically brythonic cultures and godielic cultures...
anyone can feel 'celtic'...no ones stopping you ;)
3tangle3 1 year ago
As for the Devon flag, like all flags someone sat down and made it up, like the Basque flag and like the South African flag, doesn't make it any less of a flag if people choose to fly it, many people on here seem very paranoid about the motives of complex identities which exist in modern Britain including in Devon. We all know modern 'England' is not the same everywhere. Be Cornish a proud and stop judging others.
davyth 3 years ago
I believe Devonian in this instance also means Dumnonian. And there is little doubt that a Brythonic tongue was spoken in the south west peninsular where today we have modern Devon, prior to the arrival of the Saxons but also spoken alongside early English. I believe this text is from a Welshman who has tried to recreate the essence of the language by looking at other brythonic languages.
davyth 3 years ago
But there isn't a single text in Devonian! It's on the same boat as the "Devon flag" and "Cornish tartan" etc etc - pure invention.
vykken 3 years ago
Exactly. There are no texts in Devonian. So no evidence it was a separate language from Old Cornish.
mawkernewek 3 years ago 2
@mawkernewek would have been a separate dialect for sure as different tribal regions
3tangle3 1 year ago
There's plenty of evidence, mawkernewek. First the fact that genetic surveys have found most West-Devonians to be of Celtic decent. Second, the fact that Devon has more place names of Celtic origin than any other county (e.g: -coombe & -tor). Then there's the many ancient Celtic village sites across Devon such as Merrivale.
The Devonian language evolved from Brythonic, the language of the native Britons prior to the Anglo-Saxon invasion. Cornish also came from this language & is very similar.
CyberfoxAndy 3 years ago
I don't doubt that there are some Celtic names in Devon. However the numbers are tiny compared to Cornwall. So a Celtic language was once spoken there. However what evidence is there that it was a distinct language from Cornish?
mawkernewek 3 years ago
" the numbers are tiny compared to Cornwall." - although they're also large compared to south east England... I suspect Cumbria, though, is more Celtic than Devon. It was speaking Brythonic after the Norman conquest.
The thing about Devonian though, is that no one is using it or developing it. Who speaks it? I mean, where are the phrases for "Hello, how are you?"
There was a version of the Lord's prayer online which appeared to be mainly Cornish respelt.
BobMonkfish 2 years ago
What evidence is there that Devonian was ever a separate language from Old Cornish? Since there are no texts or inscriptions in the language I assume none. All this Celtic Devon malarkey is just made up to make us Cornish look silly. You realise the Devon flag was only created a few years ago as a result of a BBC competition. An obvious rip-off of the Cornish one.
mawkernewek 3 years ago 2
Comment removed
sam778395 2 years ago
That's funny, as Devonian is nothing but a hoax. Celtic hasn't been spoken in Devon for some 700 years, and it would've been identical to medieval Cornish as one was just an extension of another. As for Ulster Scots, of course it's not a language. At best it's just a dialect of Scots.
ajoajoajoaj 1 year ago
Comment removed
sam778395 1 year ago
Sorry , I make miskate, they live abaut 2000 years ago, so there wasn't yet Slavic people, but the language is steel similar.
GoszkaSliwka 3 years ago
Wow in Polish language we say mama-mam, tata-tat, Devoński-Devonsek ,Pan-Pemn, Kornwalia- Kernow, I don't know what is this language but i see that have a very to do with Polish, even Devoński-Devonsek ending gramatic is similar:) And I know that abaut 1000 years ago before Poland became a coutry there live some Celtic people with Slavic, and they asimilate. So the language mayby to:)
GoszkaSliwka 3 years ago
Well, the Celtic and Slavic languages have a common ancestor many thousands of years ago in the form of Proto-Indo-European, and basic words like mother and father share common roots across most European languages. Kern was combined with Latin "Gallia", since the people were Celtic (as were the people in Gaul - modern day France) which gave Cornvallia in Latin.
mawkernewek 3 years ago
The Devon Flag!
halfcymruhalfdevon1 3 years ago
Dewnans bys viken
davyth 3 years ago
OK...Now I'm waiting to see you do a video on Pictish!
alleneerg 3 years ago
can celtic people communicate with each other by just using their own language?
i mean can cyraeg understand breton? ect?....
ErasmusPrime239 3 years ago
The Brythonic languages can (with slight learning) can read the other languages ok and the Gaelics can do the same. When Brythonic tries to read Gaelic (and vice versa) it becomes harder.
stecymru14 3 years ago 3
Impossible. Bretons can't understand Welshes (and vice-versa), also we have hability to understand some words, from time to time.
Calon (heart in Welsh) = kalon (in Breton)
Yec'het (health in Breton), amzer (time in Breton) are quite the same words in Breton, Welsh and Cornic.
hanterkant 2 years ago
@ErasmusPrime239 yes to the same extent that German and most Scandinavian people people can pick up English very easily as English/Anglo Saxon contains a lot of Germanic roots, I can't explain why English people in general are such Monoglots, maybe Imperialism has something to do with it ? Le dea guí ó Éireann ( best wishes from Ireland)
euroserf 1 year ago
@euroserf
Well, consider the origins of English. Unlike Irish or German, who derive most of their language from their respective language groups, English is a conglomeration of at least 3 different branches (Germanic, Italic, and a little Celtic). So unlike learning Dutch from German, where there is already a nearly identical system in place, learning Dutch from English almost forces you to start from scratch.
That, and (in America at least), the people tend to be unscholarly assholes.
JonnyLightning 1 year ago
Is math sin.
CalcoUVF 3 years ago
and whats the name of this book?
Chauncy666 4 years ago
The book by Joseph Biddulph is the linguistic equivalent of alternative therapists who create a therapy that appeals to the population, are regarded as scientists/experts by uninformed members of the public and media, but have to self publish/communicate directly with the public, because in academic circles the evidence and claims would be laughable.
bodgorrel 2 years ago
Yes, Devon is Celtic.... m8!
I know what Pow Saws is and I also know what Wales is in Cornish....
There has been word that Old Devonian (Deunansek Koth) was just a dialect of Old Cornish but there is alot of difference between Cornish and Old Devonian words....
I have a bok right next to me explaining how Devon is Celtic and has a Celtic language....
stecymru14 4 years ago
Devonian does not exist the language you are refering too is called a protolanguage its not a real language like ours
and Devon used to be part of Cornwall as did Somerset before Athelstan pushed us back to the now Tamar border
this so called Devonian language is a sub language of Cornish then why would most of the words be the same and ek at the end of the words be the same?
but seirously if the Devonian language existed i would of come across it by now
Chauncy666 4 years ago
Agreed.
Gaeilgeoir 3 years ago
Not only are there no texts to base a language on there are no historical references to a 'devonian' language per se. The closest would be a hypothetical southwestern dialect of Brythonic, which would really predate the existence of 'devon' and cover a much larger area.
bodgorrel 2 years ago
there is no Devon language m8 devon aint celtic us Cornish are
for exaple Pow Saws is Cornish
Kernow is cornish ffs i thought you knew this
the language you are saying there is Cornish
no offence you are a Celtic Brother and all that
and Kembra or Kembrys is Cymru in Cornish
Chauncy666 4 years ago
Tha seo glé innteanach. Cha robh fios agam gu robh cánan Deunansek idir!
moragtoerag 4 years ago
Bheul tá sé suimiúil (an stór), sea ach tá Deunansek díobhaí, marbh... Cha bhféadaim ag labhairt é fosta! An bhfuil tú ag labhairt as Gaelig (na hAlba)? Is féidir liom ag caint as Gaeilg!!! Wú!!!
Lunoma 4 years ago
I don't really see how anyone can learn to speak 'Deunansek'. We don't know much about the grammar and syntax of the Brythonic dialect spoken in Devon in the dark ages, since there are no substantial texts in either Cornish or Breton until the 15th century.
The Old Cornish and Old Breton manuscripts are latin glosses and a few margin notes.
mawkernewek 4 years ago
Deunansek isn't an attested language. It is based on a partial reconstruction based on Cornish and Breton by an amateur linguist.
There are no surviving texts written in the language, so we have no evidence that it was at any time a distinct language from primitive Cornish peculiar to Devon.
mawkernewek 4 years ago
I have posted a Cwmbraic video. Thank you for the numbers though. These numbers are ones used today, I think the ones used in the original language where slightly different and more similar to Cymraeg. Check out my Cwmbraic video.
Diolch am eich neges - Thank you for your comment
Stephen
stecymru14 4 years ago
Anyone else heard of Devonian?
Anyone with anything to say?
DESKI DEUNANSEK!
stecymru14 4 years ago
I have not heard of Devonian before But I have heard of Cumbric and Glaswgow Gaelic but they are both gone.But I could give some numbers in Cumbric if you want,Kent had it's own Celtic Language but it died out as well.
Here are some numbers in Cumbric.
1.YAN
2.TYAN
3.TETHERA
4.METHERA
5.PIMP
Ablal 4 years ago
I Live in Kent, and never knew we had our own Celtic Language! Where did you get this information from?
lumpofwood 4 years ago
I'm interested in Celtic languages so I was just browsing the net really and came across it. Have a look yourself. It's amazing where the Celts were!
stecymru14 4 years ago
'Kent' is from a Celtic word probably meaning 'border' or 'rim' according to David Crystal, the renowned WELSH linguist from Anglesey (who doesn't speak Welsh though).
It's well worth reading any of his books.
ghbarnes 4 years ago