@Xeno426 I agree. It was (is) James' song. And he does it in a feeling way. Canadian guy, but with a sincere description of the terrible fate the Montana fire fighters met.
DODGE DID WHAT HAD TO DO, WITH THOSE CONDITIONS, HOW DID HE EVER THINK OF THE BACK FIRE? HIS TACTICS THAT DAY GAVE WAY TO A NEW WAY, THINK OF THE FIREFIGHTERS WHO HAVE DONE BURNOUTS AND LIVED!!
For all the reading I did, for all the photos and maps I looked at, and for the innumerable times I listened to "Cold Missouri Waters," nothing came close to preparing me for the reality of Mann Gulch. It took me a dozen years to get it together to go there. Wednesday, July 6th, 2011was the day, a hot one. Being there was such a powerful and moving experience. If the story or song calls to you, then go.
i went on a hike up there with some of my local fire fighters that i work with. we went to every cross leaving flowers and saying a prayer for them, its something that everyone should think about doing if it is possible for any of u.... its amazing
This is not only a tribute to that group of guys that perished on that August day, it's also for anyone who has ever dug a line. Also to those that teach us to be safe, before we get our Red Card. Way nice post and like others have said, Thank You!
My wife never understands why these things tear me up; I fought fire for a dozen years with BLM and USFS; buried one of our own on the Gila in 1994 and knew one of the Storm King guys. And once you've been there and walked a mile on the line, there is a brotherhood that transcends time and space and which cannot be broken. Even from 60 years, I know these guys, and mourn their loss. Bless you for remembering them through this video....
This is the best video I have seen on the Mann Gulch Fire. I appreciate that you took the time to highlight the photos and faces of the men who died there. This is also the best version of the song I have heard, even better than Cry Cry Cry. The singer has a wonderful voice and does an excellent job bringing out the emotions in this song.
This song makes me sad.. To know that is what can happen when a fire gets out of control.. I would know what it feels like to be in a fire.. I am a firefighter.. My brother is going into smoke jumping so I am scred to know that this could happen to him!
Good job. Moving almost to tears. The Fiddlin' Foresters version of this song is my favorite. Number of years back, I heard Richard Shindell sing Cold Missouri Waters at a concert in a coffeehouse. He gave the audience some backgound on it and said he'd just read Norman MacLean's "Young Men and Fire," which we might want to take a look at. Terrific book, which goes into a lot of detail. I hope to visit the Mann Gulch site while I still can. Thanks again for the vid.
I was a fire crew chief in Saskatchewan the 60's. wanted to be a "jumper" but my Dad wouldn't let me. I was a young university student, and relied largely on the experience and knowledge of the locals - mostly natives. They got me through two years of some tough times, but we never had the challenges of these guys! So sad.
Earl Cooley, the original "Smoke Jumper" picked their landing zone then built their cross' up there and hike there to maintain them until well into his 80s. He just passed away at 98. RIP to all.
outstanding video ! Jane's voice renders a haunting version of this Keelaghan classic. We had the pleasure of seeing James Keelaghan perform in Columbus, OH. a few months ago. He's not to be missed...a terrific songwriter !
There's a great boat trip up to the Gates of the Mountains and the narrator we had did a wonderful job telling the tale of the fire. The boat pulls in to Merriweather Gulch where the Ranger that joined Dodge and his crew was stationed. They sell "Young Men and Fire" in the gift shop at the boat dock. You can also find it on Amazon.
ran out of space below. I wanted to say that our pictures show the contrast after 55 years (when we visited). First, the dead trees are almost all gone now. We did get a picture of a trunk that was burned almost clear through about 4 feet above the ground. Second, now there are also granite markers next to the crosses (and the one arched monument with the star of David for Navon's memorial) because the crosses are starting to crack and deteriorate. It is a very haunting place to visit.
WHAT? Do you mean NOW? Tell me more - give me a link or something here, please. I had read that there was a fire in Rescue Gulch in late July - is this what you are talking about - or did it spread into Mann Gulch?
today it is 60 years since this tragedy. I have seen this tribute for the first time today and am just awed by it. I have read MacLean's book Young Men and Fire four times (most recently about a month ago). I have been very fortunate to have visited Mann Gulch 5 years ago. Took a boat from Upper Holter Lake and hiked in from the river. We even went over the top and into Rescue Gulch. We are the ones who laid the deer skull at the base of Hellman's cross.
Been passionate about this song ever since I heard the version by Cry Cry Cry (Lucy Kaplanski, Dar Williams, Richard Shindell), and then read Norman McLean's book.
A string bass player for many years, I'm no singer, so I got one of my singer buddies to learn it, then a guitar player, then another, and now do it in one of the bands I'm in.
It still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck every time I hear or play it.
I like Ms Leche's version, though for me it doesn't really project the fact (which Keelaghan so artfully wrote into his lyrics) that Dodge is angry and resentful (not mornful and sad), and deservedly so. Blamed for the deaths of his crew, on his own deathbed, he's willing to tell the story just one more time from his point of view, but then he's done.
Thank you Mr Keelaghan, wherever you are, for putting this song together. It's a fitting tribute to Dodge, and to the men of his crew who died that day.
And thanks also to horsewhisperer for putting this tribute together. The pictures are great.
despite my earlier comments, i do think this is a very good video (though it would be nice to credit the original author of the song, james keelaghan)
Hi Fire Red, as the lyrics point out and the book verifies, they were sidehilling down to get under it. The prevailing winds along the canyon made eddies whose vortexes sucked the embers from active fire opposite side of the ridge by the camp ground over the ridge AND ACROSS the next gulch. From there upslope flow and convection made the arm that got them grow like a Sta Ana fire here in SoCal. Now we know that dynamic, and still the lesson was forgotten on Storm King.
I wish Dodge could have heard this song. I think he died about five years after Mann Gulch. I read Young Men and Fire...I found it to be a hard book to read but after seeing this video, I'm glad I did.
That was an awsome tribute to those young men. If anyone wants to know more about the Mann Gulch fire Norman Macleans's book "Young Men and Fire" is an amazing read.
WoW.. great Tribute. I just got done with the book and I read it in two days, All I can say Boys (you know who I am talking to) the best tribute to our fallen brothers from long ago is to remember those 10's and 18's. thease guys didn't know it but they made the rules we all use today. God blees Wag, a woodsman wiser than his years RIP
Yes, I do know what the song is about. I have had to run for my life in a forest fire situation, too. That's why I connect with this song. Fortunately I, and my crew, are not subjects of a folk song.
I was only remarking on the great job Jane Leche of the Fiddlin' Foresters has done on this tune. Great feeling and respect for the people that didn't make it. And, perhaps, a greater pain and sympathy for the guys that did make it, losing their compadres, feeliong guilty.
I'm sure Janie would roll her eyes at such a comparison! (Besides, Joan's too self-absorbed to have Janie's sense of humor.)
What Janie also has is a deeper identification with what those men did than can mere folk singers. Many renditions are great, but I've heard none with Janie's depth of pathos, sense of closeness to what those men went through, and why it matters.
love ya Jane! (& no, my parents didn't have any children that lived ;-)
Of course, I meant the comment about Baez as a compliment. No slight intended. I love this version.
The song was written by a Canadian, James Keelaghan, now living in Winnipeg, Manitoba. He is one of the best singer-songwriters seen in Canada since Stan Rogers, and perhaps, Gordon Lightfoot.
And by the way - in my younger years, I was a forest fire fighter, with a couple of years as a crew chief. I know. I know. You don't have to tell me. Fortunately, I never had any deaths on my watch.
And of course, I mean no disrespect to any other artists—especially the composers who at their best give lyric and melody to all our emotions But I sense Jane's background gives her a special relationship with this song that comes out in the performance. I've long taught my children (now grown) that music is the language of pure emotion and that's where this performance stands above the rest (IMNSHO ;-).
(btw-I'm a big fan of both Keelaghan and Lightfoot myself)
I was a 21-yr old student in charge of 60 men in a park in northern Saskatchewan in August '68. The "Super" was away, left me in charge. It was a hot, dry, windy day when a fire erupted, heading our way.
So young, I was scared (although, I fought fires as a "grunt" before). I called in the men and got the equipment ready to go. We stopped it at a right-of-way yards short of the park. I thank the "old guys", mostly Native, on the crew who knew fires, for their help.
The first full time summer job I had while in college was as a fire control technician with the USDA-Forest Service. This song strikes close to the heart even though I have not fought fires for over 30 years. It is more than a song. It is a lesson put to music. I would also recognize that all the casualties of that fire did not occur on August 5, 1949, the Forest Service's leading fire expert, Harry Gisborne died in Mann Gulch of a heart attack in November 1949 while investigating the fire.
The first time I heard this haunting song I was so taken, and compelled to learn all about it. McLeans "Young Men and Fire" gives an excellent account of the story. I like this rendition of the song. Also look up the song done by Cry, Cry, Cry. They also do it such justice that I bought their CD. The song is now in my own repetoire and I love to tell the story of the Mann Gulch Fire to people who have never heard the song, "Cold Missouri Waters" before. Sometimes it is hard to sing.
Very well done. I have been a fan of this song for some time, and appreciate your putting names and faces to it for us, including that of Wagner Dodge. Pretty amazing that no one knew of "escape fire" back then, but Dodge instinctively "just thought it." I expect that most heroes feel like he did--"God, forgive our virtues, as well as our vices."
wow, that is freaking awesome, thank YOU sooo much hoarsewhisperer.
I just finished rereading young men and fire, and jsut go tback from a week of trail-building in the centennials far to the south of mann gulch on the ID border.
Why is it that none of these Mann Gulch tributes use the actual James Keelaghan performance of his own song?
Xeno426 5 months ago
@Xeno426 I can't speak for anyone else, but I used this version because I liked it... simple as that.
hoarsewhisperer 5 months ago
@Xeno426 I agree. It was (is) James' song. And he does it in a feeling way. Canadian guy, but with a sincere description of the terrible fate the Montana fire fighters met.
lgcrooks 3 months ago
DODGE DID WHAT HAD TO DO, WITH THOSE CONDITIONS, HOW DID HE EVER THINK OF THE BACK FIRE? HIS TACTICS THAT DAY GAVE WAY TO A NEW WAY, THINK OF THE FIREFIGHTERS WHO HAVE DONE BURNOUTS AND LIVED!!
firefighter97688 6 months ago
For all the reading I did, for all the photos and maps I looked at, and for the innumerable times I listened to "Cold Missouri Waters," nothing came close to preparing me for the reality of Mann Gulch. It took me a dozen years to get it together to go there. Wednesday, July 6th, 2011was the day, a hot one. Being there was such a powerful and moving experience. If the story or song calls to you, then go.
bluecrab2u 7 months ago
i went on a hike up there with some of my local fire fighters that i work with. we went to every cross leaving flowers and saying a prayer for them, its something that everyone should think about doing if it is possible for any of u.... its amazing
porock1010 8 months ago
This is not only a tribute to that group of guys that perished on that August day, it's also for anyone who has ever dug a line. Also to those that teach us to be safe, before we get our Red Card. Way nice post and like others have said, Thank You!
ChuckieInMT 9 months ago
My wife never understands why these things tear me up; I fought fire for a dozen years with BLM and USFS; buried one of our own on the Gila in 1994 and knew one of the Storm King guys. And once you've been there and walked a mile on the line, there is a brotherhood that transcends time and space and which cannot be broken. Even from 60 years, I know these guys, and mourn their loss. Bless you for remembering them through this video....
mccgsm 1 year ago
This is the best video I have seen on the Mann Gulch Fire. I appreciate that you took the time to highlight the photos and faces of the men who died there. This is also the best version of the song I have heard, even better than Cry Cry Cry. The singer has a wonderful voice and does an excellent job bringing out the emotions in this song.
tgcnow 1 year ago
This song makes me sad.. To know that is what can happen when a fire gets out of control.. I would know what it feels like to be in a fire.. I am a firefighter.. My brother is going into smoke jumping so I am scred to know that this could happen to him!
HisLittleDancer17 1 year ago
Good job. Moving almost to tears. The Fiddlin' Foresters version of this song is my favorite. Number of years back, I heard Richard Shindell sing Cold Missouri Waters at a concert in a coffeehouse. He gave the audience some backgound on it and said he'd just read Norman MacLean's "Young Men and Fire," which we might want to take a look at. Terrific book, which goes into a lot of detail. I hope to visit the Mann Gulch site while I still can. Thanks again for the vid.
bluecrab2u 1 year ago
Wonderful! However, it was William Hellman not William Hollman.
Flathead58 1 year ago
I was a fire crew chief in Saskatchewan the 60's. wanted to be a "jumper" but my Dad wouldn't let me. I was a young university student, and relied largely on the experience and knowledge of the locals - mostly natives. They got me through two years of some tough times, but we never had the challenges of these guys! So sad.
lgcrooks 1 year ago
great tribute
mmiller626 1 year ago
every time it brings a tear RIP
diamondfuse 2 years ago
Earl Cooley, the original "Smoke Jumper" picked their landing zone then built their cross' up there and hike there to maintain them until well into his 80s. He just passed away at 98. RIP to all.
Frach438 2 years ago
Very nice. A lot of pictures I've never seen. Thanks for putting this together.
flyboy61b 2 years ago
Comment removed
Annierus1 2 years ago
outstanding video ! Jane's voice renders a haunting version of this Keelaghan classic. We had the pleasure of seeing James Keelaghan perform in Columbus, OH. a few months ago. He's not to be missed...a terrific songwriter !
SPennell 2 years ago
Absolutely! A must-see act. Especially with Oscar Lopez as the Compadres.
As a good Winnipeg boy, he penned the original of this song. (Well OK. He might have lived in Calgary at the time).
lgcrooks 2 years ago
Hey I just wrote a new song about this fire too. Everyone should check it out. Search The Mann Gulch Ross Brown
rossbrown406 2 years ago
Don't think so.
lgcrooks 2 years ago
The Cry Cry Cry version was the first I had heard and the reason I'm even looking this up on YouTube. If you haven't heard that version, seek it out.
timrob62 2 years ago
TEN DAYS AGO was the 60th Anniversary of the Mann Gulch Fire!
cookbill2000 2 years ago
I think this is one of James Keelaghan's greatest songs. Jane Leche does an awsome job of covering in this version.
One day I would like to go to Mann Gulch near Helena and see the area for myself.
I REALLY love this song!!!
cookbill2000 2 years ago
There's a great boat trip up to the Gates of the Mountains and the narrator we had did a wonderful job telling the tale of the fire. The boat pulls in to Merriweather Gulch where the Ranger that joined Dodge and his crew was stationed. They sell "Young Men and Fire" in the gift shop at the boat dock. You can also find it on Amazon.
flyboy61b 2 years ago
Thank you for the wonderful tribute and thank you to whom ever recomended it for to.
For more about the fire read "Young Men and Fire." , it is a must read for any wildland firefighter.
geeselouise 2 years ago
ran out of space below. I wanted to say that our pictures show the contrast after 55 years (when we visited). First, the dead trees are almost all gone now. We did get a picture of a trunk that was burned almost clear through about 4 feet above the ground. Second, now there are also granite markers next to the crosses (and the one arched monument with the star of David for Navon's memorial) because the crosses are starting to crack and deteriorate. It is a very haunting place to visit.
irishdogmom 2 years ago
Uh, well, Mann Gulch is on fire.
BlazeCyndaquil 2 years ago
WHAT? Do you mean NOW? Tell me more - give me a link or something here, please. I had read that there was a fire in Rescue Gulch in late July - is this what you are talking about - or did it spread into Mann Gulch?
irishdogmom 2 years ago
today it is 60 years since this tragedy. I have seen this tribute for the first time today and am just awed by it. I have read MacLean's book Young Men and Fire four times (most recently about a month ago). I have been very fortunate to have visited Mann Gulch 5 years ago. Took a boat from Upper Holter Lake and hiked in from the river. We even went over the top and into Rescue Gulch. We are the ones who laid the deer skull at the base of Hellman's cross.
irishdogmom 2 years ago
excellent video
wildfiree21 2 years ago
it a great story and a hell of a song
UbiDuboi 2 years ago
very nice interp of this song. i love her voice.
ryanmalham 2 years ago
as a search an rescue member an a volunteer firefighter from montana i hav ethe most respect for dodge and his crew.
Airborne402 2 years ago
Been passionate about this song ever since I heard the version by Cry Cry Cry (Lucy Kaplanski, Dar Williams, Richard Shindell), and then read Norman McLean's book.
A string bass player for many years, I'm no singer, so I got one of my singer buddies to learn it, then a guitar player, then another, and now do it in one of the bands I'm in.
It still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck every time I hear or play it.
PhlankSpeed 2 years ago
Finishing...
Keelaghan wrote one of those rare tunes that matches melody, chord changes, rhythm, and most of all the lyrics perfectly (IMHO).
PhlankSpeed 2 years ago
I like Ms Leche's version, though for me it doesn't really project the fact (which Keelaghan so artfully wrote into his lyrics) that Dodge is angry and resentful (not mornful and sad), and deservedly so. Blamed for the deaths of his crew, on his own deathbed, he's willing to tell the story just one more time from his point of view, but then he's done.
PhlankSpeed 2 years ago
Thank you Mr Keelaghan, wherever you are, for putting this song together. It's a fitting tribute to Dodge, and to the men of his crew who died that day.
And thanks also to horsewhisperer for putting this tribute together. The pictures are great.
They were so young...
PhlankSpeed 2 years ago
James Keelaghan is a singer-songwriter from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
lgcrooks 2 years ago
despite my earlier comments, i do think this is a very good video (though it would be nice to credit the original author of the song, james keelaghan)
phdecora 3 years ago
They got really damn unlucky. But still if they had fought it from below, they could've ran for the river.
FireRed808 3 years ago
Hi Fire Red, as the lyrics point out and the book verifies, they were sidehilling down to get under it. The prevailing winds along the canyon made eddies whose vortexes sucked the embers from active fire opposite side of the ridge by the camp ground over the ridge AND ACROSS the next gulch. From there upslope flow and convection made the arm that got them grow like a Sta Ana fire here in SoCal. Now we know that dynamic, and still the lesson was forgotten on Storm King.
Stay safe Amigo.
oldbearswitch 2 years ago
I wish Dodge could have heard this song. I think he died about five years after Mann Gulch. I read Young Men and Fire...I found it to be a hard book to read but after seeing this video, I'm glad I did.
brightchance 3 years ago
its a hell of a story buddy, and wagner dodge was not to blame
UbiDuboi 3 years ago
its a great story,
read 'young men and fire'
UbiDuboi 3 years ago
Beautiful, and moving. Thank you.
ctakim 3 years ago
That was an awsome tribute to those young men. If anyone wants to know more about the Mann Gulch fire Norman Macleans's book "Young Men and Fire" is an amazing read.
Thank you for the tribute - YOU ROCK!!!
wattstopper101 3 years ago
WoW.. great Tribute. I just got done with the book and I read it in two days, All I can say Boys (you know who I am talking to) the best tribute to our fallen brothers from long ago is to remember those 10's and 18's. thease guys didn't know it but they made the rules we all use today. God blees Wag, a woodsman wiser than his years RIP
vtachtom 3 years ago
Ooops! That should be Baez! Not Biez! Sorry.
lgcrooks 3 years ago
The singer is Jane Leche of the Fiddlin' Foresters.
hoarsewhisperer 3 years ago
who cares about the singer, do you not know what the song is about?
UbiDuboi 3 years ago
Yes, I do know what the song is about. I have had to run for my life in a forest fire situation, too. That's why I connect with this song. Fortunately I, and my crew, are not subjects of a folk song.
I was only remarking on the great job Jane Leche of the Fiddlin' Foresters has done on this tune. Great feeling and respect for the people that didn't make it. And, perhaps, a greater pain and sympathy for the guys that did make it, losing their compadres, feeliong guilty.
lgcrooks 3 years ago
I have listened to this four times since my last post. Who is the singer?! She's great. Sounds a bit like Joan Biez.
lgcrooks 3 years ago
I'm sure Janie would roll her eyes at such a comparison! (Besides, Joan's too self-absorbed to have Janie's sense of humor.)
What Janie also has is a deeper identification with what those men did than can mere folk singers. Many renditions are great, but I've heard none with Janie's depth of pathos, sense of closeness to what those men went through, and why it matters.
love ya Jane! (& no, my parents didn't have any children that lived ;-)
dreiSchlangen 3 years ago
Of course, I meant the comment about Baez as a compliment. No slight intended. I love this version.
The song was written by a Canadian, James Keelaghan, now living in Winnipeg, Manitoba. He is one of the best singer-songwriters seen in Canada since Stan Rogers, and perhaps, Gordon Lightfoot.
And by the way - in my younger years, I was a forest fire fighter, with a couple of years as a crew chief. I know. I know. You don't have to tell me. Fortunately, I never had any deaths on my watch.
lgcrooks 3 years ago
And of course, I mean no disrespect to any other artists—especially the composers who at their best give lyric and melody to all our emotions But I sense Jane's background gives her a special relationship with this song that comes out in the performance. I've long taught my children (now grown) that music is the language of pure emotion and that's where this performance stands above the rest (IMNSHO ;-).
(btw-I'm a big fan of both Keelaghan and Lightfoot myself)
dreiSchlangen 3 years ago
Fair enough. Thanks for your comments. Points taken!
lgcrooks 3 years ago
I was a 21-yr old student in charge of 60 men in a park in northern Saskatchewan in August '68. The "Super" was away, left me in charge. It was a hot, dry, windy day when a fire erupted, heading our way.
So young, I was scared (although, I fought fires as a "grunt" before). I called in the men and got the equipment ready to go. We stopped it at a right-of-way yards short of the park. I thank the "old guys", mostly Native, on the crew who knew fires, for their help.
Never a beer tasted so good!
lgcrooks 3 years ago
i cried for hours listening to this song. great video. great song. amazing.
nkahan5754 3 years ago
The first full time summer job I had while in college was as a fire control technician with the USDA-Forest Service. This song strikes close to the heart even though I have not fought fires for over 30 years. It is more than a song. It is a lesson put to music. I would also recognize that all the casualties of that fire did not occur on August 5, 1949, the Forest Service's leading fire expert, Harry Gisborne died in Mann Gulch of a heart attack in November 1949 while investigating the fire.
steuart9 3 years ago
The first time I heard this haunting song I was so taken, and compelled to learn all about it. McLeans "Young Men and Fire" gives an excellent account of the story. I like this rendition of the song. Also look up the song done by Cry, Cry, Cry. They also do it such justice that I bought their CD. The song is now in my own repetoire and I love to tell the story of the Mann Gulch Fire to people who have never heard the song, "Cold Missouri Waters" before. Sometimes it is hard to sing.
cutsbothways 3 years ago
this song is like no other
UbiDuboi 3 years ago
this is the best song ever wrote
UbiDuboi 4 years ago
Beautiful. I wept.....as I did when I climbed Mann Gulch in 2005. Thank you for sharing this.
oneclearcall4me 4 years ago
my name is Dodge too - thank you for this.
1maybei 4 years ago
Very well done. I have been a fan of this song for some time, and appreciate your putting names and faces to it for us, including that of Wagner Dodge. Pretty amazing that no one knew of "escape fire" back then, but Dodge instinctively "just thought it." I expect that most heroes feel like he did--"God, forgive our virtues, as well as our vices."
AshramBliss 4 years ago
where does inspiration come from, god does not always speak in pillars of fire and columns of smoke....
UbiDuboi 4 years ago
this is the best story, even when a broad does it
UbiDuboi 4 years ago
we remember
htsprks 4 years ago
Nice Tribute.
OryegonHotshot 4 years ago
RIP
IGNITIONSPECIALIST 4 years ago
This story is so much bigger than the song, and this song is some story!
UbiDubi1A 4 years ago
nicely done
Storzcouplings 4 years ago
I love this song and I love this story, if 'love' is the right word.
whummadug 4 years ago
13 crosses high above the cold Missouri waters
thank god someone has posted this
and Dodge was not at fault
whummadug 4 years ago 4
thank you both...I agree that he was not at fault. These things happen, there is no one to blame.
hoarsewhisperer 4 years ago
wow, that is freaking awesome, thank YOU sooo much hoarsewhisperer.
I just finished rereading young men and fire, and jsut go tback from a week of trail-building in the centennials far to the south of mann gulch on the ID border.
My all the fallen wildland firefighters RIP!
Storm king,Cedar fire, all of them RIP
oldbearswitch 4 years ago 3