CRT vs LCD HDTV - Comparison #1 - NES Super Mario Bros.

[ElvisRocksVinyl]

LCDs are crap for any console made in the 80s and 90s and to the early part of 00s, they were systems developed for the standard res CRT teles, I'm reluctant to get rid of my 25" Sony 4.3 and sony 28" widescreen teles because my snes and mega drive look total arse on my 32" LCD, I still prefer to play games on the old CRTs, even my xbox is handcuffed to my CRT lol.

[videogameobsession]

@ElvisRocksVinyl Well yes and no. I'm keeping my Wega CRT as well, but there are ways to properly display some older consoles to have them look fantastic on HDTV's. The Xbox and PS2 both have progressive scan support and component cables so they look great on LCD. In fact the Xbox can support 1080i via component.

Search RGB SCART on here and you will see how the SNES, Neo-Geo, Genesis, and a few others have RGB/SCART cables that will bypass your TV's crappy A to D convertor.

[Captainngamemaster]

This test is invalid because your using a emulator on the lcd which auto upscales etc If you were using a real console on the lcd it would look much, much worse than the crt

[videogameobsession]

@Captainngamemaster Well it's not really a test, but yes you are correct a console on an LCD via anything less than RGB/SCART is going to look terrible which is why I didn't even bother recording that.

I was just mainly testing the timing when starting the game on a console and emulator and letting them run for a while.

[kruks]

@videogameobsession No argument here. I've refused to hook my old consoles up to a big screen ever since I got one, but I do know I'm the exception and not the rule. At one time I had three monitors in my basement (four if you count the Vectrex), though I've managed I got rid of the old Amiga monitor for a broadcast monitor that could replace both my CRTs in one felt swoop. Heck, the big screen isn't even IN the basement.

[videogameobsession]

@kruks Thumbs up for the Vectrex.

I love that system. My brother and I actually bought one new clearance for $49 from Toys R Us in '84. I guess I have a fondness for failed systems. I just bought another Virtual Boy this week. :)

You don't have any good sources for CIB Vectrex games do you? It seems everyone had the same idea... buy a Vectrex multicart, sell off all of their games without the overlays.

The only ones I see on eBay are very pricey.

[kruks]

@videogameobsession eBay is the only place I can find them with any consistency. They don't show up often on gamer forums. I don't think the multicarts are the only issue, but that the overlays can crack, get scratched, and otherwise simply get lost. The decades will do that.

[kruks]

It's an odd comparison, as you happened to pick a console where composite is the best output without modding. No LCD will come close to matching the black levels of a good CRT, for instance (though Plasmas are much better in that respect, but still fall short to CRTs). Choosing a console with S-Video or, ideally (though unrealistic to most American gamers), RGB would give a more fare comparison.

Granted, most NES users will be stuck with composite, but other consoles would give a broader scope.

[videogameobsession]

@kruks Actually you can get RGB out of a NES with a PPU mod or with a Famicom Titler which outputs a perfect RGB signal.

I did plan more videos with different consoles/connections, but I never got around to it.

[kruks]

@videogameobsession As I said, without modding.

I have a Vs. game sitting around that I don't need, so I may pull the PPU out to try my hand at RGB on the thing some day. My RGB monitor kicked the bed not too long ago, plus the geometry was so butchered as to be nigh uncorrectable. My motivation is waning.

[videogameobsession]

@kruks The Famicom Titler needs modding?

[kruks]

@videogameobsession It was meant to display S-Video, so a little (for RGB), yeah. :) Plus a 60 to 72 pin converter. Plus it's HUGE, and who wouldn't prefer the iconic grey box instead of that? Call me nostalgic, but that's why I'm not emulating in the first place!

[videogameobsession]

@kruks I prefer to play the actual consoles also, which is why I have 22 of them in my living room, but there are some instances where emulating isn't the worst idea. Like with the 1st gen stuff. I have a hard time deciding against playing the 2600 via RF (which is nearly unplayable on an HDTV) or at 1080p emulated. It may not be 100% identical, but the clear video makes up a bit for the shortcomings imo. As much as I'd love to have 2 monitors in every room (1 HD, 1 CRT) it's not practical.

[videogameobsession]

@kruks Another system where I prefer to emulate over playing the original is the Neo-Geo CD. There are only a handful of games I like on that over the AES, but if you've ever sat through the loading on one of those games it destroys any fun to be had! Emulating it eliminates all load times. So no more waiting 2 minutes for the title screen... or 45 seconds to show your character. Also, games using floppies I'd rather not deal with. So emulation does come in handy on occasion. :)

[kruks]

@videogameobsession On that end, I have a consolized MVS. :) Though I do have a few cassette games for Commodore 64, if you want to talk about hellish loading times...

[queensplazasouth]

you can't videotape a crt

[magnus87]

Its unfair.! Put real NES on LCD TV, Its Sux :S

[videogameobsession]

@magnus87 Real NES on an HDTV is total garbage. Imagine an image that is 256x240 on a display meant for 1920x1080... trust me it's nothing to look at

[skynnedca]

WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

WHAT IS THIS O_O

[OptimusPrimeX]

Scanlines FTW !!!

[darrenwalshsock]

I thought it looked wonderfull on your CRT.It would have been better if you had another NES pluged into the HDTV rather than using an emulator.The main difference is an emulator outputs in progressive scan where as if you plugged the NES into it directly it would be the TV that did the scalling from interlaced to progressive and this would make for a more accurate test,and would truely show us the difference between CRT and LCD.

[videogameobsession]

@darrenwalshsock Exactly. Trust me 256x240 interlaced on a large 1080p HDTV is not a pretty site!

I was more or less trying to show the best of both displays. Unless you can modify a NES with a PPU from a PC10, or similar hack, the NES is going to look terrible on an HD display. Even with a hack you will still run into problems because the NES was never designed to output in RGB.

Emulation on an HDTV or sticking with a CRT with a real NES are really the best options currently.

[darrenwalshsock]

@videogameobsession I didnt really think about the lack of an RGB scart option,so i understand what you are saying.Why would you want to play it on the HDTV anyway when it looks so wonderfull on your CRT :)

[videogameobsession]

@darrenwalshsock I have a 52" 1080p Samsung now. It's hard to go back to a 27" CRT after viewing the 52" HD . :P

As much as I love playing the original hardware, with the right settings NES emulation can look very impressive in HD. I no longer stretch it to fit the width, instead I use a pixel perfect ratio and turn off all of the filters. Also, the Samsung HD has no ghosting or lag (with enhancements turned off) like the TV in this video shows.

I'll always have a real NES set up though. :)

[darrenwalshsock]

@videogameobsession I know what you mean i play my Sega megadrive on a 40" HDTV and luckily we have RGB scart so the Samsung i have gives a pretty decent image although no where near as nice as a CRT would.I have just bought an SLG3000 and im looking to make a line doubler/upscaler to get myself a VGA output with some nice scanlines :)

[videogameobsession]

@nuuuukii Well, you have to remember the Wii maxes out at 480p which isn't going to look at good as a 360 or PS3, both of which can output up to 1080p (1080x1920).

It's shouldn't look too bad though. Make sure you went into options and turned on Progressive Scan 480p and 16x9 display.

LED and LCD TV's are the same, they are both LCD tech. The only difference is in how the crystals are lit up.

Good luck and keep me posted!

[jaytamine]

Hey, I don't know if anyone has suggested this, but if you turn your shutter on (level 1 or 2 on my video cam) the distortion of filming a CRT goes away and it will tape more clearly ;)

[videogameobsession]

@jaytamine Thanks for the info, but it was just a cheap digital still camera. I used to do that with our old Sony 8mm camera.. a super fast shutter would do away with it, but also made the picture very dark.

[Ultraboy94fsr]

Got a CRT screen yesterday and placed it next to my LCD I was using for my games consoles before. The CRT works way better for most games, but I have set it up so that all of the consoles (NES, SNES, Megadrive, Master System, N64) will output on both TVs, at the same time even... So I have the best of both.

[videogameobsession]

@Ultraboy94fsr I still love my CRT too. There is a way to make most of the old stuff look amazing on LCD/Plasma HDTVs though. It requires either modding the systems to tap into the RGB signals or the easier, but more expensive way, buying SCART to Component adapter, and buying true RGB SCART cables for the older consoles. I know they exist for the SMS, GEN, 32X, Neo-Geo, SNES, Saturn, DC, PSX, and most of the newer systems, but most everything newer than the PSX already has component anyway.

[cakestalker]

If you used RGB scart for the NES on the CRT it would definitely win, but it already does kinda as at least on the CRT TV it runs in the correct aspect ratio, and not stretched out as on the widescreen TV.

[videogameobsession]

@cakestalker There is no SCART cable for the NES. At least not one that outputs a true RGB signal. The only way to get a an RGB signal from the NES is to hack and transplant the PPU from a Vs. or Playchoice Nintendo arcade board.

It's not an easy or cheap modification either.

Also, NES games where never programmed to be outputted in RGB so many games are glitchy and just look bad. This is one of the few cases where the emulation can be beneficial.

I like how the NES looks on the CRT.

[cakestalker]

@videogameobsession

Yes, you are correct about that.. the NES only has RF and Composite output.. I forgot all about that when i wrote that comment..

[wrestletube1]

This is cheating.

On the LCD was Mario on the SEGA Everdrive and on the CRT was the original NES version.

[videogameobsession]

@wrestletube1 That doesn't make any sense! A. Mario is a NES game & B. I don't own a Sega EverDrive flash cart. I wouldn't mind having one though.

[TruClassic]

i have a 30 in panasonic hd crt that does 480i,480p and 1080i i love it has a great picture and it has zero latency its great best of both worlds. shame is hd crts are not produced anymore, i got lucky and got mine for $650  the year before they stopped making them. i also use a 22 in. lg lcd monitor using dvi to hdmi adapter awesome picture as well only 2ms response time its great no noticable latency

[videogameobsession]

@TruClassic Nice. They didn't sell those very long. You are lucky to own one!

I am happy to have a Sony Wega 27" "EDTV" that have RGB/component and does 480p. I am looking into SCART to component converters for my older consoles (Gen/SNES/NeoGeo/Saturn/etc..) I hear those look very good on LCD/Plasma HDTVs.

I am very happy with the response rate of my Samsung 52" LCD. When it's mode is set to "game" it turns off the extra digital processing and gets rid of any noticeable lag.

[Zolg08]

CRT, the way to prove you are the man in the house

[videogameobsession]

@Zolg08 I have both CRT and LCD TV's (and a woman in the house too!) :P

[HenpeckedHobo3]

awesome remix! what is it called!!

[videogameobsession]

@HenpeckedHobo3 AMBASSADORS OF FUNK - Super Mario Disco

[Amebixfan]

any console pre 2000 needs to be played on a 4:3 CRT tv at 480i or else it looks like garbage

[videogameobsession]

@Amebixfan I thought the same until I saw an SCART to component adapter. You can buy SCART cables for many systems (Genesis, 32x, SNES, N64, Neo-Geo AES, etc..) and output a true RBG 480p signal and it will look very nice on an hdtv.

Also, it will be 4:3 unless you have your HDTV set to overscan or stretch.

Their are also RGB/component mods for many pre 2000 systems as well.

CRTs are nice, but let's face it. It's hard to keep multiple large screen TVs in the living room!

[CVRipley]

I run my nes through a onkyo digital receiver with a renon processor. It reproduces the image in full HD 1080p, removes artifacts etc, The receiver is connected to a 52 inch samsung 7 series lcd tv running at 120 hz. The image comes out very well and not as artifical as an emulator. The small and very slight imperfections gives it a genuine look and feel which adds to the game play.

[johneymute]

on a crt tv games looks fantastic but on hdtv it looks like crap,on lcd screens there,s even ghosting making it more looking like garbed.

[dale042407]

i got a 480p digital crt thats great for gaming

[videogameobsession]

Cool.

The Wega CRT in this video is an "EDTV" 480p. Of course only consoles connected through it's component inputs will actually achieve that resolution, but the old stuff still look really sharp on it.

[gabrielle64]

cool, what might it look like on an LCD TV, not using an emulator, but the actual console? is it possible to set it up you think?

[er124656]

crt is better

[videogameobsession]

This TV is a gift for my mom. My other TV has much less ghosting. It's not even noticeable to me. Nothing like the PSP or anything. The difference between a $565 TV (shown here) and my 52" Samsung is quite large when it comes to gaming.

I did side by side comparisons with LCD and plasma with Little Big Planet playing and I didn't see a big difference. The LCD was thinner, used 1/3rd the power, and didn't give you a video sunburn like the plasma either. :P

I'll probably buy an OLED someday.

[videogameobsession]

To be honest the ghosting isn't that bad when you play. This is also also a cheaper HDTV. I will try it again on my Samsung 52".

The main thing I noticed was how much better it looked with brand name component cables. I didn't realize how much of a different it made with using cheap cables.

[videogameobsession]

Same here. Remember the B&W/Color switch on the old Atari 2600 (6 switcher)? Funny to see that kind of stuff nowadays. :P

[nylecrane2k7]

So which is better?

[CatBlinx]

nice comparison

[tigheklory]

I guess I can't put links in comments.

[videogameobsession]

Yeah, I hate that. Just improvise. Videogameobsession(dot)com :)

[tigheklory]

I did, I posted a video respomse.

[tigheklory]

Looks great, but I noticed so ghosting in 1080i:

It may just be the response rate of the LCD, but it could also be because it interlaced (1080i).

Can you do it again and this time run it in 720p?

[videogameobsession]

It's the TV. It has a 6.5ms response rate. I have played many of the emulators in both 720p & 1080i and the ghosting is the same. The only discernible difference was a bit of occasional interlacing during extremely fast scrolling. 1080i yielded sharper edges IMO.

I will try it on my Samsung 52" LCD and see if that clears up the ghosting issue.

It may also have something to do with the stretched aspect ratio. More info can be found here

fancyxbox(dot)info/?doc=1&seca­o=screen

[ivantopito]

...GENIUS...