Americans 93 % none union and our 7% union work force we must all unite for liveable wages and healthcare. Don’t be spellbound by the talking media heads of the unscrupulous companies and Gov officials who indirectly work for them. And are trying to put a wedge between us None of them are hurting are they. Support only fair trade! And USA products. Lets fill our coffers again. With taxes made by product's made here. Go on line to Made in USA.
You're sooooooooo refreshing, Thom! At least half of the talk show hosts should be like you. Why the the hell haven we gotten the Fairness Doctrine back?! Taking it away is what gave us the , near exclusively, far right wing talk show hosts, all over the U.S. A.. If this wasn't the case, I'm certain, that there would not be a Tea Party, & the Dubbya Administration---with all of it's horrors-- would never have taken place.
this response convinces me that humans are in fact mutating. this tool's head exploded in that brief moment of silence, as does mine nearly every time I hear the right wing talk. I can NOT comprehend what they say nor, apparently, can they comprehend any semblance of decency (although, oddly, for the most part they claim to be the moral majority)
How You Can Boycott the Kochs: The backlash against the Kochs' influence in Wisconsin is gaining steam, with labor supporters starting to boycott Koch Industries' many products (listed here): alternet . org/teaparty/150078/how_you_can_boycott_the_kochs/?page=entire
@ 9:00 the truth finally is revealed. The fact is that there are MASSIVE billion dollar deficits at the state level and trillion dollar deficits are the federal level, and if tax revenues are going down, then government spending must come down. And there should be a flat tax, no loopholes for corporations, but let's get back to the Clinton days of balancing budgets, otherwise we are going to destroy our currency. It's happened over and over with countries in debt.
@oolong2 Economic development tax credit- Signed into law Jan. 31, 2011, this bill increases the state’s economic development tax credit fund to $98.1 million, up from $73.1 million. The fund provides a tax credit for job creation, capital investment or related activity. The additional $25 million in credits is not expected to be claimed during the 2011-2013 biennium.So, if employers create new jobs and claim the credits, they would pay less in taxes to the state.
You're talking about different bills. There is the 1M tax credits, the 25M economic development incentives, and the 117M tax cuts which DO effect the 2011-2013 budget:
"For his first month in office, though, Walker's been focused on spending money through tax cuts. Two tax cuts he's already signed, along with one that's passed the Assembly, would add roughly $117 million to the state's budget problem over the next two years."
Cuts that benefit 1% of the people... See a pattern?
@oolong2 We are talking about exactly the same bills. Go to Politifact (dot) (com) and type in the search box "walker $140 million". Go to the February 1 article. It's a debunked myth. Read the article. Anyway, what does that matter? If there's a budget shortfall of $3.6 billion over the next 2 fiscal years, this had to be addressed in any case. And it makes that supposed $140 tax break look like peanuts. The point is something had to be done.
@oolong2 Nothing to do with the budget crisis? Half of Wisconsin's budget is pay and benefits for government employees. And no, those tax breaks are not for corporations - they're for businesses with gross receipts of $500,000 or less. Small business is the greatest friend the working class has - 70% of all private sector jobs come from small businesses. But lefties seem to think that all private business is bad.
@oolong2 Most of the budget is paying salaries, so of course salaries have something to do with it. You're right - the final bill included credits for businesses over 500k. But a few things about that - it's credit for creating jobs, it was a compromise (Walker wanted the 500k threshold), and for bigger businesses the credit is peanuts. I'm gonna post the article here that has the details, but characvterizing it as giving his business buddies a big favor is grossly wrong.
@oolong2 MADISON — Republicans have reached a deal with Gov. Scott Walker on a bill that would offer $33 million in tax breaks a year for creating jobs, the co-chairman of the Legislature's budget committee said Tuesday.The deal would extend a $4,000 tax deduction for every job created for companies that have less than $5 million a year in gross receipts, Rep. Robin Vos, R-Rochester, told The Associated Press.
@oolong2 The credit would be cut in half to $2,000 per job for companies with more than $5 million in gross receipts, Vos said.<<< a $2000 credit wouldn't even make up for the extra costs of hiring due to Obamacare. Like i said, the sum total of all three of these is still peanuts and ignores the coming $3.6 billion fiscal crisis.
@oolong2 Small businesses produce jobs. Onerous taxes destroy their ability to do so. Wisconsin is a very business unfriendly state. The tax credit for creating jobs makes perfect sense. And you seem to draw no distinction between small and medium sized businesses and corporations (conglomerates, multinationals etc).
Technically I'm not against small or large businesses. However understand that "tax cuts" are not some magic economic fix.
If the masses (ie middle class) cannot buy your product you're out of luck. Corporate taxes mostly apply to "profits". You're not taxed if you're not "selling"
Secondly when you talk about taxes you need tot distinguish between corporate, income, payroll, etc.. There is a big difference. A high "income" tax can actually effect businesses positively.
@oolong2 High taxes translate to fewer jobs. If i've got more of one expense, i find a way to cut expenses somewhere else - and that's your paycheck. You're fired.
That's not how it works at all.... Corporate taxes are NOT expenses they are taken from profits, expenses are in fact "tax deductable".
Personal income taxes are taxed against your salary.
Say for example the income tax is 80% for salaries over 500K and I run the company that had crazy profits last year. A huge personal bonus would just get taxed so I have more incentive to keep that profit *in my business* (expansion, capial expenditures, jobs, etc) as deductable expenses.
@oolong2 Taxes are expenses. Period. Same as a person. What you might be alluding to is the fact that when the corporate tax rates are raised high enough, it's in the interest of the corporation to plow their profits back into the company so they don't have to pay the high taxes. They'll take the profits out eventually - when the corporate tax rates go down. Of course, high taxes like that would dissuade other businesses from starting up at all - and there go all those potential jobs.
Once again Taxes are NOT expenses. Period. Sorry, but this is business 101.
Politiicians trick people into thinking that corporate taxes are just like their own personal income taxes all the time. Most people don't run businesses so they have NO CLUE how taxes really work.
Employee wages are *expenses* paid BEFORE taxes,
Startups pay nothing, If you don't make profits you don't get taxed. Which is why 2/3 of ALL corporations in this country pay ZERO taxes.
@oolong2 I'm afraid you went to the wrong school of business. Let's say i'm considering investing in a corner lot and building a neighborhood grocerty store. Is that a good investment? Should i do it? How good is the potential return on investment? Best case i make a solid profit on that store. If so, how much tax will they take away? 10%? 90%? The answer will affect my return on investment. If the taxes are too high, then the risk to my capital is not worth the small reward.
ROE for an investor is based on a lot of factors, such as potential, how the business is structured and what exactly they are investing in.
However it's mostly based on the *value* of that business after a time, which is primarily based on an increase or decrease in overall *sales*. If sales are higher after I invested then my ROE is greater.
The fact that taxes are high or low doesn't impact the valuation of the business.
Once again.... 2/3 of ALL corporations pay ZERO Taxes.
@oolong2 I messaged you an article that debunks the 2/3 corps pay 0 taxes. Here's the gist - Kevin Hassett, in a Bloomberg commentary, explained that most small businesses are now organized in such a way that many prefer to take their profits as an owner’s salary and pay taxes on the wages. It’s not that they aren’t paying taxes, as the headline incorrectly says, but rather that the money is not flowing to the government through the corporate levy.
@oolong2 You own a store. The store makes $100k profit for the year. The reasonable thing for you to do is to give yourself a salary of $100k and pay personal income tax. No tax on your store (it's incorporated). To do otherwise would mean you'd be taxed twice on the same profit. Why would anyone do that? So your "corporation" (store) made zero profit and you pay no corp tax. Do you really think that's evading taxes somehow?
@oolong2 Mindless speculation? What are you talking about? You just gave yourself a salary of $100k, so like any wage earner you have some money. Where did this mindless speculation stuff come from? Maybe you're thinking about the bankers who take huge risks because they know the govt is going to bail them out. Well sorry but small businesses don't get bailed out, so most sane businessmen don't do mindless speculation.
@oolong2 My only concern is with small businesses - which include some businesses that make 500k or more profit. Like i said they're the engine of the economy, they're the ones that create the jobs. You're referring to major corps and multinationals - they're cheating. But small and medium sized businesses bear the burden of taxes and compliance already. Less taxes for those businesses does translate into more jobs under most circumstances.
@oolong2 Maybe you did not understand. You have a store. Net profit for the year 500k. You're the sole proprietor. You give yourself a salary of 500k, therefore your store (a corporation) made no profit. No corporate tax. But you had a salary of 500k so you pay personal income tax. Simple enough. Do you have a problem with any of that?
I don't have a problem with that and neither should you.
What I do have a problem with are people conflating the idea that personal income taxes has anything to do with that.
Reagan started that lie with "trickle down economics" peple thought he was supporting "capitalism" when in reality he was supporting monopoles. outsourcing, and wide spread speculation leading to several collapses each bigger than the last not to mention rising food/gas prices hurting the middle class.
@oolong2 Actually Clinton did more damage methinks - he signed NAFTA into law, and 300 other trade agreements, including agreements with China. Reagan started that ball rolling, but Clinton enthusiastically finished it. And he made no bones about it while he was running - Clinton thought "free trade" and NAFTA were wonderful. Ross Perot warned of a "giant sucking sound" when the jobs started to go south. More people should've listened to him.
That is why you need to understand the differences in taxes otherwise you're just a pawn in someone's game.
People use this confusion in order to get people like you to support legislation against your interests.
Understand that by doing so you're not support "capitalism," you're supporting a few at the top that want to consolidate their wealth and use it to crush competition.
Things like healthcare, infrastructure, and progressive taxes are much more important to startups.
@oolong2 I'm not confused at all. I understand the corporations at the very top use the govt - they buy politicians and get corporate welfare and no taxes. But you seem to confused the politically connected top of the food chain corporations with small businesses which incorporate or alternatively become LLC's. Small businesses are the engine of our economy - they're the working man's best friend. Multinational corporations who play the crony capitalist game are the enemy.
Good. Then also understand the enourmous amount of money spent on propoganda to make people think they are supporting small businesses but are only supporting those at the top.
The GOP is notorious for making this claim when in fact they're only supporting campaign contributors, and bought Democrats go right along with it.
"busting unions" is also part of this stategy.
Healthcare Reform, Financing, infrastructure, and competition laws are things that really help small business.
@oolong2 We've been through this before. Corporations have dems and repubs in their pockets. If you're voting dem because you think that curtails corporate power in some way, you're kidding yourself.Partisan bickering is a waste of time because both parties are guilty. Most of the repubs, but dems don't really help because the corps will always buy enough of them to get their way.BTW,ObamaCare hurt small businesses, bigtime. The health care insurance corporations love it (their lawyers wrote it)
The healthcare bill started out as a good idea. Unfortunately it got so picked apart by special interests that literally spent millions in lobbying and propoganda. It ended up being something that even progressives turned against.
It's hard to get any real change when money, influence completely control the debate and call anything that threatens our aristocracy as "socialism" or "against freedom".
When you're fighting that, it's hard to have a real discussion about anything.
@oolong2 I'm not fighting that, i'm telling you both dems and repubs are corrupt. What you saw was WWE wrestling - lots of drama and fury, but scripted, with a predetermined outcome.
I don't deny that either... Republicans fight for the wealthy while pretending it's about freedom and morality and Democrats fight for the middleclass yet cave the first chance they get and blame it on the Republicans. Those are the roles they play.
The issue in our country is not left vs.right it is CORRUPTION. Just like "separation of powers", we must separate money from politics.
There is more common ground between opposing viewpoints than what gets twisted by cable news.
@oolong2 The solution to massive corruption - downsize the government, especially the federal govt. Less power, less scope, lower budget, means less to sell to corporations. At least when corruption is on a local level there's a natural limit - steal too much and people notice. On the federal level it doesn't really work that way.
@oolong2 Campaign finance reform is a joke. It's not possible. You're trying to treat the symptoms instead of the disease. I can get into specifics. End the Fed. Close the Dept of Ed, Energy, Homeland Security, get out of Fannie and Freddie, get rid of Dept of Housing and Urban Development, Close all overseas bases, End the wars, Close the IRS, FDA. End All Foreign Aid. Stop being a member of NATO, UN and World Bank.
People always want to end things they have no real understanding of. It always sounds good as a campaign slogan.
A "Symptom" and not a "disease"? Quite the opposite.
Hypothetically lets say we should "End the Fed". Who would vote for such legislation when half the senators and POTUS are in the pockets of banks that benefit from the Fed?
Answer: NO ONE. It would never even be up for a VOTE.
As long as money controls the debate we will never have honest legislation... PERIOD.
@oolong2 Sad but true. I was posting a wish list, and i know such a thing won't come to pass. Or should i say extremely unlikely. Any bureaucracy fights for its existence, and when it can it fights for growth. There are some exceptions, for example New Zealand in the 90s when they got rid of the farm subsidies. You'd need a crow bar and a few tanks to get rid of the farms subsidies in the US.
@oolong2 See a pattern here?The bills in question don’t create any expenditures -- those are done in budget bills, which Walker has yet to introduce. But they do mean the state will take in less money.One Wisconsin Now says they apply to "special interests." They may be targeted for specific purposes, but they also hit a wide range of people, including small business owners and any working person who has an HSA.
Scott Walker gave hundreds of millions in tax breaks - bullshit. That crapola was debunked on politifact (dot) (com). Go to the site, search "walker $140 million" and go down to the article dated february 1. Just a complete bs talking point.
@megagagnon1: google "scott walker wisconsin surplus" & u'll see that wisconsin had a SURPLUS b4 walker spent it all & then some. how? he gave mega tax breaks to corps/wealthy w/o coming up w/ non-surplus $ to pay for it - which means that the surplus had to cover his tax breaks & everything else walker spent it on w/o finding a way to pay for it & STILL keep the surplus. republicans have HISTORICALLY been very bad at being fiscally responsible - see gwb (nearly doubled debt) & reagan.
Sorry, Walker did in fact sign a bill that gave millions in tax breaks less than a month ago. How you look at it budgetarily is a different matter. Bottom line is less money is going into Wisconsin contributes to the 2 year shortfall.
Unions already agreed to take a cut, however Walker wants to take away their rights.
So basically It's tax cuts for corporations on the backs of Labor, corporations are the only beneficiary of these polcies NOT the Wisconsin poeple.
@oolong2 You're so damned lazy that you don't even bother to check politifact. That's really pathetic. So here's what i'm going to do - i'm going to paste it here. I'm going to relieve you of your ignorance. I'm posting the three measures taken up by lawmakers since Walker called them into special session just hours after being inaugurated on Jan. 3, 2011.
@oolong2 Health Savings Account deduction- Also signed into law, this measure allows people to deduct contributions they make to Health Savings Accounts from their state income taxes, as they can from their federal income taxes. Nearly every other state already allows this. The deductions will reduce state revenue by an estimated $20.7 million in 2011-2012 and $27.3 million in 2012-2013.
@oolong2 Tax deduction for creating jobs-Under this bill, which is awaiting Walker’s signature, employers would receive a tax deduction for each job they create. They would pay an estimated $33.5 million less per year in income and franchise taxes. In other words, the bill doesn’t result in any spending, but the state would take in less tax money.In other words, the bill doesn’t result in any spending, but the state would take in less tax money.
Thom has the patience of a saint. Why he talks to so many lunatics I dont know. Its time to rise up and crush the despots by taxing the fuck out of them. ALL the facts are on the lefts side and right wingers dont do reality (steam gushes from my ears the moment they open their ignorant mouths). I have ENDLESSLY tried to reach them BUT THEY ARE INSANE BIGOTS... If you want 4 DECADES of research documenting their insanity google 'The Authoritarians' for an EXCELLENT freem ebook on them.
@StunnedByStupidity Oh and remember the Bush tax cuts oh and a DECREASE in jobs and an ENORMOUS deficit! The increase in income inequality is MASSIVELY damaging to society. More teenage pregnancies, more drug taking, more mental illness (MASSIVELY SO), more violent crime, more sexism, racism, homophobia, less trust in neighbors, less happiness, more obesity, shorter lives - see the right wing scum dont tell you this and fuck knows why the left dont frame it in this TRUTHFUL way!
'Talk - Richard Wilkinson & Kate Pickett - Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger ' on you tube
And have just finished 'Griftopia' an EXCELLENT book to explain what happened in the financial crash (oh and it wasn't poor people getting houses that caused it!)
THAT IS AN OUT RIGHT LIE BY THE BITCH - THERE HAS BEEN VI0LENCE AT TEABAGGERS RALLIES - THEY SPIT ON A GUY IN A WHEEL CHAIR AND TOLD HIM THEY WERE NOT PAYING FOR HIS HEALTHCARE TO GET A JOB.
ALL I SAY WHORE IS THAT IF YOU WANT TO TALK GUN TALK - WE CAN HAVE GUN TALK TO AND GUNS AT RALLIES JUST LIKE YOU BIG ASS BOTOX TEABAGGIN WHORE
This must be the new corporate propaganda "Sell." Regular looking folks talking alot of bullshit. Lukas is another winger jackass that is stupid as stupid can be or just a freaking winger street walker slut that will say anything for a buck. Don't waste your Thom, her head is empty.
Pensions and healthcare are PURCHASED by employees. What Wisconsin want to do to renig on that purchase and use the money to give even more tax breaks to the rich.
Obama's administration wasn't "allowed" to restore the tax rates on the rich because the rich (including many in congress) don't want them restored to where they were before they were "temporarily" cut in the name of job creation-- quite obviously the exploitationists meant job creation in China, India, Mexico, South America and Africa-- which resulted in the economic crisis which then allowed Bush to throw his Bailout Bonanza Bash for his buddies in banking and on Wall Street.
Carrie who? Do I think someone who talks like this broad should move to Kochville....YES!!!!!
kansasdem1 11 months ago
Carrie who?
kansasdem1 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Americans 93 % none union and our 7% union work force we must all unite for liveable wages and healthcare. Don’t be spellbound by the talking media heads of the unscrupulous companies and Gov officials who indirectly work for them. And are trying to put a wedge between us None of them are hurting are they. Support only fair trade! And USA products. Lets fill our coffers again. With taxes made by product's made here. Go on line to Made in USA.
bestwayusa1 11 months ago
Comment removed
silversunny 1 year ago
You're sooooooooo refreshing, Thom! At least half of the talk show hosts should be like you. Why the the hell haven we gotten the Fairness Doctrine back?! Taking it away is what gave us the , near exclusively, far right wing talk show hosts, all over the U.S. A.. If this wasn't the case, I'm certain, that there would not be a Tea Party, & the Dubbya Administration---with all of it's horrors-- would never have taken place.
tuberpie68 1 year ago
8:12 "... ... put bame blame the banks?!"
this response convinces me that humans are in fact mutating. this tool's head exploded in that brief moment of silence, as does mine nearly every time I hear the right wing talk. I can NOT comprehend what they say nor, apparently, can they comprehend any semblance of decency (although, oddly, for the most part they claim to be the moral majority)
paddedshell 1 year ago
Carrie Lukas ever get tired of getting her ass kicked by the facts?
She isn't really that stupid is she?
lisabob22 1 year ago
How You Can Boycott the Kochs: The backlash against the Kochs' influence in Wisconsin is gaining steam, with labor supporters starting to boycott Koch Industries' many products (listed here): alternet . org/teaparty/150078/how_you_can_boycott_the_kochs/?page=entire
gregjalbert 1 year ago
@ 9:00 the truth finally is revealed. The fact is that there are MASSIVE billion dollar deficits at the state level and trillion dollar deficits are the federal level, and if tax revenues are going down, then government spending must come down. And there should be a flat tax, no loopholes for corporations, but let's get back to the Clinton days of balancing budgets, otherwise we are going to destroy our currency. It's happened over and over with countries in debt.
ggadguy 1 year ago
To talk to that slut is like talking to a kitchen table . . . and the furniture is at least useful.
saumacus 1 year ago
Thom. Please keep talking with republicans & keep educating them on the truth.
If we keep showing them the truth, maybe one day a few of them will wake up.
Keep it up Thom.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
WHY does every so called "republican", "tea party", "conservative" talk in terms of "left" & "right?
WTF DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE. Take about the policy, talk about the logistics, talk about the FACTS. Enough with this right/left BS.
You're not solving problems by pointing at some guy and saying he's "left".
oolong2 1 year ago
@oolong2 Economic development tax credit- Signed into law Jan. 31, 2011, this bill increases the state’s economic development tax credit fund to $98.1 million, up from $73.1 million. The fund provides a tax credit for job creation, capital investment or related activity. The additional $25 million in credits is not expected to be claimed during the 2011-2013 biennium.So, if employers create new jobs and claim the credits, they would pay less in taxes to the state.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
You're talking about different bills. There is the 1M tax credits, the 25M economic development incentives, and the 117M tax cuts which DO effect the 2011-2013 budget:
"For his first month in office, though, Walker's been focused on spending money through tax cuts. Two tax cuts he's already signed, along with one that's passed the Assembly, would add roughly $117 million to the state's budget problem over the next two years."
Cuts that benefit 1% of the people... See a pattern?
oolong2 1 year ago
@oolong2 We are talking about exactly the same bills. Go to Politifact (dot) (com) and type in the search box "walker $140 million". Go to the February 1 article. It's a debunked myth. Read the article. Anyway, what does that matter? If there's a budget shortfall of $3.6 billion over the next 2 fiscal years, this had to be addressed in any case. And it makes that supposed $140 tax break look like peanuts. The point is something had to be done.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
Nothing in the politifact article disputes what I said. You have series of credits and tax breaks that benefit corporations and the wealthy (HSA).
While at the same time taking away the rights of Labor even after they conceded to cuts which in the end had *NOTHING* to do with the shortfall.
The OBVIOUS pattern is targeting the middle class in favor of wealthy benefactors.
However FoxNews would have you believe the shortfall and recession is the fault of the middle class.
oolong2 1 year ago
@oolong2 Nothing to do with the budget crisis? Half of Wisconsin's budget is pay and benefits for government employees. And no, those tax breaks are not for corporations - they're for businesses with gross receipts of $500,000 or less. Small business is the greatest friend the working class has - 70% of all private sector jobs come from small businesses. But lefties seem to think that all private business is bad.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
Yes *nothing* to do with the budget crises.... The reason for the wisconsin deficit is the same as the federal deficit...Recession and Tax Cuts.
You're wrong. That was proposed, but the final bill included credits for business over 500K receipts.
This is nothing to do with "left" vs. "right", or hating business. It's about looking at an issue on it's merits.
No one has been hurt more by this recession than the middle class which has been in crises for decades.
oolong2 1 year ago 2
@oolong2 Most of the budget is paying salaries, so of course salaries have something to do with it. You're right - the final bill included credits for businesses over 500k. But a few things about that - it's credit for creating jobs, it was a compromise (Walker wanted the 500k threshold), and for bigger businesses the credit is peanuts. I'm gonna post the article here that has the details, but characvterizing it as giving his business buddies a big favor is grossly wrong.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@oolong2 MADISON — Republicans have reached a deal with Gov. Scott Walker on a bill that would offer $33 million in tax breaks a year for creating jobs, the co-chairman of the Legislature's budget committee said Tuesday.The deal would extend a $4,000 tax deduction for every job created for companies that have less than $5 million a year in gross receipts, Rep. Robin Vos, R-Rochester, told The Associated Press.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@oolong2 The credit would be cut in half to $2,000 per job for companies with more than $5 million in gross receipts, Vos said.<<< a $2000 credit wouldn't even make up for the extra costs of hiring due to Obamacare. Like i said, the sum total of all three of these is still peanuts and ignores the coming $3.6 billion fiscal crisis.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
Which is why WI should raise taxes like they did in IL. It will be interesting to see who comes out ahead... My guess is IL.
You don't fix a deficit by lowering corporate taxes. You don't fix a failing middle class by cutting it's pay.
Money ALWAYS has a much higher multiplier in the economy when it goes to the poor vs weathly.
Cutting taxes doesn't magically create jobs, you need to create demand and paying customers first and that starts with building up the middle class.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 Small businesses produce jobs. Onerous taxes destroy their ability to do so. Wisconsin is a very business unfriendly state. The tax credit for creating jobs makes perfect sense. And you seem to draw no distinction between small and medium sized businesses and corporations (conglomerates, multinationals etc).
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
Technically I'm not against small or large businesses. However understand that "tax cuts" are not some magic economic fix.
If the masses (ie middle class) cannot buy your product you're out of luck. Corporate taxes mostly apply to "profits". You're not taxed if you're not "selling"
Secondly when you talk about taxes you need tot distinguish between corporate, income, payroll, etc.. There is a big difference. A high "income" tax can actually effect businesses positively.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 High taxes translate to fewer jobs. If i've got more of one expense, i find a way to cut expenses somewhere else - and that's your paycheck. You're fired.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
That's not how it works at all.... Corporate taxes are NOT expenses they are taken from profits, expenses are in fact "tax deductable".
Personal income taxes are taxed against your salary.
Say for example the income tax is 80% for salaries over 500K and I run the company that had crazy profits last year. A huge personal bonus would just get taxed so I have more incentive to keep that profit *in my business* (expansion, capial expenditures, jobs, etc) as deductable expenses.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 Taxes are expenses. Period. Same as a person. What you might be alluding to is the fact that when the corporate tax rates are raised high enough, it's in the interest of the corporation to plow their profits back into the company so they don't have to pay the high taxes. They'll take the profits out eventually - when the corporate tax rates go down. Of course, high taxes like that would dissuade other businesses from starting up at all - and there go all those potential jobs.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
Once again Taxes are NOT expenses. Period. Sorry, but this is business 101.
Politiicians trick people into thinking that corporate taxes are just like their own personal income taxes all the time. Most people don't run businesses so they have NO CLUE how taxes really work.
Employee wages are *expenses* paid BEFORE taxes,
Startups pay nothing, If you don't make profits you don't get taxed. Which is why 2/3 of ALL corporations in this country pay ZERO taxes.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 I'm afraid you went to the wrong school of business. Let's say i'm considering investing in a corner lot and building a neighborhood grocerty store. Is that a good investment? Should i do it? How good is the potential return on investment? Best case i make a solid profit on that store. If so, how much tax will they take away? 10%? 90%? The answer will affect my return on investment. If the taxes are too high, then the risk to my capital is not worth the small reward.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
ROE for an investor is based on a lot of factors, such as potential, how the business is structured and what exactly they are investing in.
However it's mostly based on the *value* of that business after a time, which is primarily based on an increase or decrease in overall *sales*. If sales are higher after I invested then my ROE is greater.
The fact that taxes are high or low doesn't impact the valuation of the business.
Once again.... 2/3 of ALL corporations pay ZERO Taxes.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 I messaged you an article that debunks the 2/3 corps pay 0 taxes. Here's the gist - Kevin Hassett, in a Bloomberg commentary, explained that most small businesses are now organized in such a way that many prefer to take their profits as an owner’s salary and pay taxes on the wages. It’s not that they aren’t paying taxes, as the headline incorrectly says, but rather that the money is not flowing to the government through the corporate levy.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
It doesn't debunk anything. It just repeats what I told you.
Like I said... You have to separate *corporate* taxes, payroll taxes, and personal income taxes.
For investment purposes, taxes don't mean squat.
Since Regan there is less incentive for people to put profits into their business.
ie: " Should I talke huge bonuses and get taxed 80% or leave the money in my company and expense it as capex, addition jobs, etc?"
Instead this capital goes towards mindless speculation.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 You own a store. The store makes $100k profit for the year. The reasonable thing for you to do is to give yourself a salary of $100k and pay personal income tax. No tax on your store (it's incorporated). To do otherwise would mean you'd be taxed twice on the same profit. Why would anyone do that? So your "corporation" (store) made zero profit and you pay no corp tax. Do you really think that's evading taxes somehow?
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@oolong2 Mindless speculation? What are you talking about? You just gave yourself a salary of $100k, so like any wage earner you have some money. Where did this mindless speculation stuff come from? Maybe you're thinking about the bankers who take huge risks because they know the govt is going to bail them out. Well sorry but small businesses don't get bailed out, so most sane businessmen don't do mindless speculation.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
Where did you get 100K? In my example I said 500K
This is why we have a progressive tax code... So that people making under 100K get breaks and that INCLUDES salaries for small business owners.
I'm talking about bankers and non-bankers that give themselves multi-million dollar bonuses while running their company into the ground.
Since Reagan there's no incentive to keep that money IN the company, instead it goes into speculation driving up food/gas prices and causing bubbles.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 My only concern is with small businesses - which include some businesses that make 500k or more profit. Like i said they're the engine of the economy, they're the ones that create the jobs. You're referring to major corps and multinationals - they're cheating. But small and medium sized businesses bear the burden of taxes and compliance already. Less taxes for those businesses does translate into more jobs under most circumstances.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
Sigh... Did you not learn anything just now? THINK! Don't just regurgitate talking points.
Sorry, but this is why corrupt politicians and their masters get away with this crap.
If a business brings in 500K or even 5 Million in revenue this is NOT what is TAXED.
What is taxed are NET profits taken after EXPENSES such as operating costs AND salaries (handled by payroll/income taxes).
THEN you apply *corporate* taxes. People don't support businesses with their personal salary.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 Maybe you did not understand. You have a store. Net profit for the year 500k. You're the sole proprietor. You give yourself a salary of 500k, therefore your store (a corporation) made no profit. No corporate tax. But you had a salary of 500k so you pay personal income tax. Simple enough. Do you have a problem with any of that?
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
I don't have a problem with that and neither should you.
What I do have a problem with are people conflating the idea that personal income taxes has anything to do with that.
Reagan started that lie with "trickle down economics" peple thought he was supporting "capitalism" when in reality he was supporting monopoles. outsourcing, and wide spread speculation leading to several collapses each bigger than the last not to mention rising food/gas prices hurting the middle class.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 Actually Clinton did more damage methinks - he signed NAFTA into law, and 300 other trade agreements, including agreements with China. Reagan started that ball rolling, but Clinton enthusiastically finished it. And he made no bones about it while he was running - Clinton thought "free trade" and NAFTA were wonderful. Ross Perot warned of a "giant sucking sound" when the jobs started to go south. More people should've listened to him.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
That is why you need to understand the differences in taxes otherwise you're just a pawn in someone's game.
People use this confusion in order to get people like you to support legislation against your interests.
Understand that by doing so you're not support "capitalism," you're supporting a few at the top that want to consolidate their wealth and use it to crush competition.
Things like healthcare, infrastructure, and progressive taxes are much more important to startups.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 I'm not confused at all. I understand the corporations at the very top use the govt - they buy politicians and get corporate welfare and no taxes. But you seem to confused the politically connected top of the food chain corporations with small businesses which incorporate or alternatively become LLC's. Small businesses are the engine of our economy - they're the working man's best friend. Multinational corporations who play the crony capitalist game are the enemy.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
Good. Then also understand the enourmous amount of money spent on propoganda to make people think they are supporting small businesses but are only supporting those at the top.
The GOP is notorious for making this claim when in fact they're only supporting campaign contributors, and bought Democrats go right along with it.
"busting unions" is also part of this stategy.
Healthcare Reform, Financing, infrastructure, and competition laws are things that really help small business.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 We've been through this before. Corporations have dems and repubs in their pockets. If you're voting dem because you think that curtails corporate power in some way, you're kidding yourself.Partisan bickering is a waste of time because both parties are guilty. Most of the repubs, but dems don't really help because the corps will always buy enough of them to get their way.BTW,ObamaCare hurt small businesses, bigtime. The health care insurance corporations love it (their lawyers wrote it)
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
The healthcare bill started out as a good idea. Unfortunately it got so picked apart by special interests that literally spent millions in lobbying and propoganda. It ended up being something that even progressives turned against.
It's hard to get any real change when money, influence completely control the debate and call anything that threatens our aristocracy as "socialism" or "against freedom".
When you're fighting that, it's hard to have a real discussion about anything.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 I'm not fighting that, i'm telling you both dems and repubs are corrupt. What you saw was WWE wrestling - lots of drama and fury, but scripted, with a predetermined outcome.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
I don't deny that either... Republicans fight for the wealthy while pretending it's about freedom and morality and Democrats fight for the middleclass yet cave the first chance they get and blame it on the Republicans. Those are the roles they play.
The issue in our country is not left vs.right it is CORRUPTION. Just like "separation of powers", we must separate money from politics.
There is more common ground between opposing viewpoints than what gets twisted by cable news.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 The solution to massive corruption - downsize the government, especially the federal govt. Less power, less scope, lower budget, means less to sell to corporations. At least when corruption is on a local level there's a natural limit - steal too much and people notice. On the federal level it doesn't really work that way.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
"downsize the government" or "small government" is just another empty talking point. It doesn't mean ANYTHING until you get into specifics.
That same mentality was used to deregulate the financial markets and where did that lead us?
No, crippling gov. protections and irrational fear of gov. is not the answer. The problem isn't gov. it's MONEY.
The answer starts with campaign finance reform and laws restricting lobbying and the revolving door between public/private jobs.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 Campaign finance reform is a joke. It's not possible. You're trying to treat the symptoms instead of the disease. I can get into specifics. End the Fed. Close the Dept of Ed, Energy, Homeland Security, get out of Fannie and Freddie, get rid of Dept of Housing and Urban Development, Close all overseas bases, End the wars, Close the IRS, FDA. End All Foreign Aid. Stop being a member of NATO, UN and World Bank.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@megagagnon1
People always want to end things they have no real understanding of. It always sounds good as a campaign slogan.
A "Symptom" and not a "disease"? Quite the opposite.
Hypothetically lets say we should "End the Fed". Who would vote for such legislation when half the senators and POTUS are in the pockets of banks that benefit from the Fed?
Answer: NO ONE. It would never even be up for a VOTE.
As long as money controls the debate we will never have honest legislation... PERIOD.
oolong2 11 months ago
@oolong2 Sad but true. I was posting a wish list, and i know such a thing won't come to pass. Or should i say extremely unlikely. Any bureaucracy fights for its existence, and when it can it fights for growth. There are some exceptions, for example New Zealand in the 90s when they got rid of the farm subsidies. You'd need a crow bar and a few tanks to get rid of the farms subsidies in the US.
megagagnon1 11 months ago
@oolong2 See a pattern here?The bills in question don’t create any expenditures -- those are done in budget bills, which Walker has yet to introduce. But they do mean the state will take in less money.One Wisconsin Now says they apply to "special interests." They may be targeted for specific purposes, but they also hit a wide range of people, including small business owners and any working person who has an HSA.
NOT just corporations.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
Why does he talk to these scum?
sewbuttns 1 year ago
Scott Walker gave hundreds of millions in tax breaks - bullshit. That crapola was debunked on politifact (dot) (com). Go to the site, search "walker $140 million" and go down to the article dated february 1. Just a complete bs talking point.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1: google "scott walker wisconsin surplus" & u'll see that wisconsin had a SURPLUS b4 walker spent it all & then some. how? he gave mega tax breaks to corps/wealthy w/o coming up w/ non-surplus $ to pay for it - which means that the surplus had to cover his tax breaks & everything else walker spent it on w/o finding a way to pay for it & STILL keep the surplus. republicans have HISTORICALLY been very bad at being fiscally responsible - see gwb (nearly doubled debt) & reagan.
rumpole33 1 year ago
@rumpole33 I just posted Walker supposed "tax breaks". Look on the comment page.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
Sorry, Walker did in fact sign a bill that gave millions in tax breaks less than a month ago. How you look at it budgetarily is a different matter. Bottom line is less money is going into Wisconsin contributes to the 2 year shortfall.
Unions already agreed to take a cut, however Walker wants to take away their rights.
So basically It's tax cuts for corporations on the backs of Labor, corporations are the only beneficiary of these polcies NOT the Wisconsin poeple.
oolong2 1 year ago
@oolong2 You're so damned lazy that you don't even bother to check politifact. That's really pathetic. So here's what i'm going to do - i'm going to paste it here. I'm going to relieve you of your ignorance. I'm posting the three measures taken up by lawmakers since Walker called them into special session just hours after being inaugurated on Jan. 3, 2011.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@oolong2 Health Savings Account deduction- Also signed into law, this measure allows people to deduct contributions they make to Health Savings Accounts from their state income taxes, as they can from their federal income taxes. Nearly every other state already allows this. The deductions will reduce state revenue by an estimated $20.7 million in 2011-2012 and $27.3 million in 2012-2013.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@oolong2 Tax deduction for creating jobs-Under this bill, which is awaiting Walker’s signature, employers would receive a tax deduction for each job they create. They would pay an estimated $33.5 million less per year in income and franchise taxes. In other words, the bill doesn’t result in any spending, but the state would take in less tax money.In other words, the bill doesn’t result in any spending, but the state would take in less tax money.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
This greedy reich wing cum dumpster,is a disgrace to her gender. This is the type of bitch that would have blown the Fuhrer.
HUMANSAREBENEATHME 1 year ago
Thom has the patience of a saint. Why he talks to so many lunatics I dont know. Its time to rise up and crush the despots by taxing the fuck out of them. ALL the facts are on the lefts side and right wingers dont do reality (steam gushes from my ears the moment they open their ignorant mouths). I have ENDLESSLY tried to reach them BUT THEY ARE INSANE BIGOTS... If you want 4 DECADES of research documenting their insanity google 'The Authoritarians' for an EXCELLENT freem ebook on them.
StunnedByStupidity 1 year ago 7
@StunnedByStupidity Oh and remember the Bush tax cuts oh and a DECREASE in jobs and an ENORMOUS deficit! The increase in income inequality is MASSIVELY damaging to society. More teenage pregnancies, more drug taking, more mental illness (MASSIVELY SO), more violent crime, more sexism, racism, homophobia, less trust in neighbors, less happiness, more obesity, shorter lives - see the right wing scum dont tell you this and fuck knows why the left dont frame it in this TRUTHFUL way!
StunnedByStupidity 1 year ago
@StunnedByStupidity Search for the following on you tube:
'Talk - Richard Wilkinson & Kate Pickett - Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger ' on you tube
And have just finished 'Griftopia' an EXCELLENT book to explain what happened in the financial crash (oh and it wasn't poor people getting houses that caused it!)
StunnedByStupidity 1 year ago
THAT IS AN OUT RIGHT LIE BY THE BITCH - THERE HAS BEEN VI0LENCE AT TEABAGGERS RALLIES - THEY SPIT ON A GUY IN A WHEEL CHAIR AND TOLD HIM THEY WERE NOT PAYING FOR HIS HEALTHCARE TO GET A JOB.
ALL I SAY WHORE IS THAT IF YOU WANT TO TALK GUN TALK - WE CAN HAVE GUN TALK TO AND GUNS AT RALLIES JUST LIKE YOU BIG ASS BOTOX TEABAGGIN WHORE
justonefirefly1 1 year ago
It kills the Republicans that there hasn't been any violence in Wisconsin.
MaryJesusJoseph 1 year ago
Thom why waste your time talking to this bimbo? She's a wacko. She's a waste of time.
agitcam 1 year ago
This must be the new corporate propaganda "Sell." Regular looking folks talking alot of bullshit. Lukas is another winger jackass that is stupid as stupid can be or just a freaking winger street walker slut that will say anything for a buck. Don't waste your Thom, her head is empty.
rickbar123 1 year ago
Question: What have Republicans learned from Wisconsin?
Answer: Not a fucking thing.
Savior20061 1 year ago 8
Pensions and healthcare are PURCHASED by employees. What Wisconsin want to do to renig on that purchase and use the money to give even more tax breaks to the rich.
exenrontexas 1 year ago
Where does this idiot get the idea that there has been no violence by teatards?
One of the so-called "witnesses" to the Kenny Gladney dust-up was filmed assaulting a Carnahan event staff member that same day.
leftysergeant 1 year ago
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quakey987 1 year ago
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quakey987 1 year ago
Obama's administration wasn't "allowed" to restore the tax rates on the rich because the rich (including many in congress) don't want them restored to where they were before they were "temporarily" cut in the name of job creation-- quite obviously the exploitationists meant job creation in China, India, Mexico, South America and Africa-- which resulted in the economic crisis which then allowed Bush to throw his Bailout Bonanza Bash for his buddies in banking and on Wall Street.
FriedDaisy 1 year ago
Thank you once again Thom!
hunterswine 1 year ago
This lady is dumb, how does she executive direct anyone, even other dumb women..?
PathoPete 1 year ago