If you're gonna build a happy community with fine homes, Don,t build them with the same materials that everyone else uses, and all the homes will look like something out of a cheesy display. Thats what they mean by fake. Do the fine old neighborhoods that those people 100 years ago look cheesy? no. They weren't all built at the same time. To build perfect homes they need to be custom, no plastic columns, fences, or siding. But the social community Seems to be perfect.
Hi, this is great and as a land use planner I see the benefit and I was raised in the old row homes in Louisville. I also design walkable communities as well and have a new 5 minute video at otis31755 or geo-life.org
Nothing is better than a walkable community, where you can leave your home and actually see people out and about living their lives. Suburbia is a nightmare.
these designs might look cute but the true american dream is when I can mow the lawn naked behnd my fenced bungalow. New urbanism doesn't provide that
You are absolutely wrong. The New Urbanism has a transcent which displays different types of developments. Just because Kentlands and Seaside does not give you the privacy you need, does not mean that ALL NU towns will be like that.
If you see the transect, you will find T1 where people can have 1/2 acre lots. Unfortunately you have your right, but you wont get the benefits of being close to your daily needs.
@MrJudube WTF is with people and the " american dream"? There is NO american dream. That's just some made up thing they used so people would move to the suburbs
Not every suburb is a hellhole...I'm tired of that urban elitism.
The one I grew up in was safe, friendly, and quaint, with access to good education, food, and plenty of culture. I do welcome the more distinctive architecture of new urbanism, but not everyone can afford these more expensive houses/locales. However, the "Oh, those new urban towns aren't 'real' towns" perspective is annoying, condescending, and ridiculous.
feels strange... those guys promote this WOL as the new way to go and in europe we know nothing else. these sprawl suburbs show what horrible can happen if gasoline is sold to people for next to nothing over 60 years! they are the real fake-towns. I think theyre rather made for cars than for people.
I cant believe Randal O Toole and Wendell Cox are HIGHLY against this.. Sure they have great urban planning points, but they fail to recognize the beauty, charm, connectivity, and balance of these wonderful towns. We must compromise with these individuals who advocate property rights, but at least most NU towns have a high portion of single family homes.. just NOT the big box, strip mall messes..
The thing is... New Urbanism's goal SHOULD NOT BE STOPPING SPRAWL... It should be...
SPRAWLING THE RIGHT WAY!! Kentlands, Seaside, and Celebration.. is sprawl and most of the housing are regular single family homes.. We CAN KEEP THE AMERICAN DREAM WITH NEW URBANISM... But..
We must cut down on big box stores, strip malls, fast food chains...
We should stop calling New Urbanism anti-sprawl.... Its a FOOLISH MYTH...
@mistaspot1 What about the growing population who wants detached homes??? We should NOT FORCE people to live in higher density.. At least Kentlands has a high percentage of detached homes. I hope you have no concerns over that.
I am ALL for this type of development...BUT in reality most people don't have the resource$ to demand or purchase sensible development. Most people take what is built...and guess what is being built? I almost wish a meteor would fall and wipe out a huge swath of suburbia so we could start over...(No, not really).
The design of the homes, neighborhoods, architecture, and public transit of the 1920's-30's was just about ideal, and I'm glad to see that there is hope that we will return to that sort of neighborhood. Look at any of the closer-in suburbs of a large, older city in the USA, and you'll find sensibly sized houses with beautiful arched windows, covered front porches, within walking distance to schools, small stores, and old streetcar lines.
Honestly, people do live there, and people do run real lives, and real successes but these towns really are fake. You know what it is? It is a suburbia with a newurban facade to disguise the suburbia it really is. These designs are safe and diffident to make a change.
Why would anyone say they aren't real towns?? What? A bunch of cookie cutter huge ass houses in the middle of nowhere is a "real town?" The best amenity they offer is quick access to the freeway and the Walmart half a mile away.
cyrus992, you put up some very good points and i think i gave everyone a thumbs up haha The government is responsible for zoning laws but i think its important to note that it is the LOCAL governments that really control these things. bureaus and counties primarily, a few states (north carolina's comes to mind) but the federal government has left zoning codes alone. recently though, the HUD, EPA, and the DOT have created the Partnership for Sustainable Communities. you should check it out.
cyrus992 - the government already gives us nonsense rules and regulations on planning... it's called single-use zoning. it pretty much makes it ILLEGAL to create traditional style neighborhoods and forces developers to instead create the seperated residential zones with wide streets and low densities, strip malls with gargantuan parking lots on 4-lane highways, and office 'parks' that are as close to a park as is the surface of the moon. that is sprawl, and those regulations are what is nonsense
People often assume that suburbia is something created with excess freedom, sure people have yards and a house... BUT NOT EVERYONE FOR GOODNESS SAKE DONT LIKE TO DRIVE SO MUCH!!
I share similar ideas to so many people and lots of people like them...but the ideas of Duany must be done in a free market system instead of new codes..
The problem is some people believe that NU forces people to live diiferently, but if it did then no one would move to Kentlands or Seaside...
Cyrus: I'm not exactly sure how sprawl should be fazed out; whether it be with new regulations or by letting free market take over. my one concern with the market approach is that globalized corps like walmart and mcdonalds already have too much power and influence on americans' lives and how development is shaped. sadly, i feel that people just accept the sprawl lifestyle without thinking that there are better ways. i fear that people may be too lazy or scared to seek new ways to live
the funny thing about NU is the communities are looked on as great places and southern NU developments are visited often for vacation by suburbanites and they dont fight to have those built everywh. one of my favorite sprawl-bashing authors is James Howard Kunstler. his 'home from nowhere' and 'geography of nowhere' books offer amazing thoughts and incite on the subject of sprawl. they are written with pretty humorous wit too. i feel like you would appreciate them if you don't already have them!
Our society had a true free market in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The result was it delivered us beautiful and memorable streetcar towns and stick and queen anne style buildings.
Free Market is NOT the problem. Corporate Facism is. That allowed lobbying from the asphalt, cement, oil, car, fast food, big box companies to impose new laws to control us by creating highways, land-use segregation influences cul-de-sacs, collector roads, etc..
We need government rules and regulations in the same way that we need consciousness to intervene for an orderly society. Sprawl is like a spoiled child that feels the world revolves around them. And, like a spoiled child, they feel that they should not have to suffer any consequences for their actions. Suburbanites are not paying for the true cost of sprawl, everyone else is.
Sprawl is not the result of excess freedom, its the result of too much government rules and regulations with the nonsense building and zoning laws that DICTATE the way we should build our places.
Just like many things the government does, ITS A DISASTER like the schools they run!!
If we had more liberty in our planning, then more Kentlands and Seaside towns will prosper!!
Should we have dictators planning our towns? Doesn't sound like a bad idea. Look at Spanish and Italian cities. They were all built with a dictated plan and not one US city could be compared to them visually or functionally. American's haven't really built anything really good since the 1930s.
t seems that you are refering to government beauracracy does a nice job!!??? Not really, they have no intention to innovate or compete. They are the punks who created suburbia with its dumb zoning laws and codes...
This is America built on the foundation of free-market. We should not have a serious problem in our urbanism. Whatever the urbanism is...profit driven innovation is the key!!
Uh actually the Automobile and developers trying to escape regulations on city building have led to suburbia. Capitalism is dead and the free market killed it. It needs an overhaul to become successful and even moral again. The reckless pursuit of profit has come before the well being of the world population for far too long.
how come for YEARS after building "strip malls" in suburbia, VERY FEW have offices and condos very built above the retail!!??? Come on, I am sure developers love to do that because it is profitable and marketable. That does not happen because "suburbia" IS REGULATED HIGHLY MAKING IT ILLEGAL!!
Try building a town like Kentlands, see if those meddling planinng and government departments will approve it!!
You obviously don't know what you are talking about because not only is there little logic in your comments but they are far from reality. Suburban housing is regulated by a homeowners association. However there are plenty of 2 story strip malls and office buildings in the suburbs. The city is where the strict zoning and building codes are for obvious reasons.
@Cyrus992 The problem with the free market is that people can't individually plan good communities, it has to be done collectively from a central authority. Also, most Americans have never grown up in a community where they can walk to destinations and see people out and about, so they don't know any better. The government needs to subsidize walkable communities because they are the future.
@Cyrus992 The free market only created those nice small towns out of necessity, when most people didn't own cars. The central planners purposefully did the opposite of what they were supposed to do after WWII with their zoning laws. The free market will never create a town like Seaside, FL.
But why not? If we can spread the word on how these auto-oriented suburbs are destroying our finances, environment, traffic time/flow, health, social and cultural life, and of course energy supply.. people would rather live in these sustainiblity instead of being slaughtered in these nasty suburbs.
Eventually they will sell. With oil depletion and the global currency crisis... there will be a demand for a more localized network and the demand will rise. People then have choice.
Cement is cheaper then steel, and large centers may have been an anchor but they were also centers of filth, overcrowding and corruption.
Trains will need security as airports do, personally I think the future will be in having personal aircraft to allow people to live further apart and work were they see fit.
Urbanism IS the American Dream... Suburban sprawl was the American Nightmare... Interstates, Airports, Strip Malls, and would be the death of this country
Why it took so long for consumers / residence to realize the benefit for these kind of compact design ? I guess they don't care about the long commute, social isolation and financial burden of urban sprawl.
The demise of cheap oil will doom suburbia forever... by 2025 a surplus of 22 million suburban homes will be on the market. New urbanism is the only way to go. It's all going to be about sustainability now.
My problem with a place like Seaside, Fl is that it seems static and unchanging. I bet there are a million and one CCRs to keep it exactly as it was built. It may be good planning and design, but could anything unexpected ever happen there?
When you say "unexpected" do you mean a spontaneous streetside BBQ, a gasline break, or an unusual house with wacky features? I know there are some codes there to limit to a colonial style, but they are very open about variety.
Yeah it looks like The Stepford Wifes '09. Shrink wrapped in plastic and as dull as dish water. A gas pipe could rupture there just as easily as any place else. And what's wrong with a curbside BBQ? Or is it only a certain type of someone you imagine having one of those? You can keep Seaside, I'd rather live in the imperfect real world as a human than like an automaton in some Walt Disney bad dream.
@mistygarden "My problem with a place like Seaside, Fl is that it seems static and unchanging."
Suburbia isn't static? The place serves as a function for the people to live their lives. Because people age and new generations are born, compact communities are never static. I know people who live in in suburbia and don't even know their neighbors, and hardly see them. That's depressing.
Of all the issues driving sprawl, immigration is probably near the bottom of the list. The big money is in more upscale development. Is there any data to support this argument or is this just an attempt to apply one issue to another for political purposes?
I agree that it's more about the money than the number of people, but remember that immigrants are upwardly mobile, too, and more often than not move to the suburbs once they've saved up enough. There has been a lot of reporting done in the last few years about new immigrants actually heading straight to the suburbs -- many were recipients of subprime loans.
When half or more of the nation's population growth is due to it, I don't think it's a stretch to link immigration to sprawl.
All you greenies who hate urban sprawl need to face the cause: mass immigration.
Developments don't just 'form'--IMMIGRANTS (legal and illegal), mostly from developing countries, provide the ever-expanding warm body-supply of fecund foreigners to keep the developers in business.
Developers give a LOT of money to parties like the Democrats (and ex-prez Dubya), to liberalize immigration laws.
When Mexico implodes, you people are going to end up with a HORRENDOUS immigrant influx/sprawl problem.
New Urbanism is Old Urbanism re-planted. This is NOT a criticism but simply a statement of fact. It is town planning done RIGHT. It can be applied with a range of income groups, and IS applied with a range of income groups. Note the mention of RENTAL properties in New Urbanist developments.
The next frontier is New Urbanism as infill development.
Imagine the boost to holistic economies with the close knit nature of New Urbanist places.
i am a strong advocate for sustainable urban design but a lot of these newer designed communities are alienating those of us with less money. walkable and bikeable homes should be available for all income levels. here in albuquerque theyve built new mixed use sectors but they act like they invented it and people here dont know that...they charge like $300,000 for them..smart growth is not a new idea we're just going back to how we did it before we built cities for cars
NU works if everybody has relatively high incomes and/or are a homogenous group such as Greeks, Italians owning shops or the like. If you look at new urbanism and the like applied in Britian with normal people, you will see a larger crime rate DUE to communal property, common entrances to a home, back alleys etc.
One day New Urbanism will rise like a great Phoenix from the ashes of urban sprawl. Human scale will be revived as will the sense of community that is manifested from it. Our bodies will be healthier, our air cleaner, and our minds more resilant. The ideals and ambitions of our early founders will finally be constructed and America will take it's place among truely great nations.
Until that day comes, help spread the word of New Urbanism. Yea!
I want to create a New Urbanism Awareness campaign. The movement needs a glossy informational website that can convincingly "sell" the idea of NU to those who are unfamilar with it. Once the knowledge is out there and people realize that they don't have to deal with urban sprawl no more, they'll effectively push down the barriers preventing NU. The major goal right now should be to swell up a critical mass of NU promoters. Only then will change come.
The people of NEW URBANISM especially Andres Duany are HEROES!!!!
Living conditions in suburbia is awful!! The main reasons people would dislike NEW URBANISM is because of their boxy and boring MCMANSIONS and big box stores!!! Who needs them? They are not as good as you think they are!
What is so hard about NEW URBANISM? Why sprawl? Hopefully someday this will be DOMINANT!!!!!!
In who's world is living in a suburb awful living conditions? I have a one story home and a paved drive and an 8 foot fence around it all. I never see or hear anyone else in my subdivision and I don't know them. Everything I need is within a 15 or 20 minute drive and I never have to go to the city core for any reason. What more could you want save maybe living in the country proper?
Some people are just more sociable & like interacting with neighbors. Others appreciate the options for driving less in walkable neighborhoods (especially with $3-4 gas). Kids, too, have more options - for school, play, work, worship, etc. - and do not have to nag a parents (chauffeur) to go here or there.
Beyond the lifestyle and aesthetic preferences, conventional suburbia has recently become a financial burden. So perhaps the "awfulness" assigned to it is rooted in buyer's remorse.
I think too we need to define suburbia. There are places where you drive most of 100 miles or more to get from the outer suburbs to the city core. Cities of 100,000 or so have suburbs that are 15 or 20 minutes from the city proper. Also most places now mix retail in with housing to a degree. Yes they are big box stores but I for one don't care if I get what I need from a big box or a small one. Most people in my subdivision drive less then five miles to shop and no more then 10 or 15 to work.
Agreed. The thing about NU is that it came about as a reaction to the disappointments some people were experiencing with suburban sprawl (not suburbia per se). That is, it was a reaction to a general pattern of development and the choice-limiting lifestyle it offered... one that obligated one to drive everywhere and for everything, provided only a watered-down version of nature, and which was socially isolating at times. This fits the bill for lots of people, but not for those who prefer NU.
New Urbanism is a good idea heavily promoted but oh so badly executed. I'm appalled at how inept and inappropriate most of the crowded-together developer produced home designs are. Colonial Williamsburg, designed by Ted Jacobsen (one of my early mentors) is
immensely better than most of these if one must pursue the past. Jerry Gropp AIA a long-time residential architect.
To alanhowitzer: I agree that it is very difficult to change outdated zoning laws, now that it has gone to local control. One solution would be to have a new developer with lots of money come in, and say that the township has to accommodate ALL types of development, or make sure that no changes can be made in zoning, like sprawl subdivisions. For those in Southeast PA, I'm having a conference on sprawl.
I like the ideas of New Urbanism, but the aesthetics and architecture rub me the wrong way. I'm anxious to see where it will go as a movement in the future!
There are NU developments with "edgy" architecture, too. Check out Prospect New Town in Colorado. It has MUCH different architecture, but offers it without undermining all the pedestrian oriented accommodations that make NU great.
Here is why we are doomed. Today I saw Nancy Pelosi Dem. rep from CA. Doing EXACTLY what we can expect from politicians. Asking the government to release its oil reserves to drive prices down. Only price will get anyone to conserve. But lowering costs/helping the poor pay for oil is a ticket to office. She says "Natural gas is the way to go. "It's Cheap abundant and clean unlike fossil fuels". Nobody has told her natural gas is a fossil fuel and is neither cheap abundant or "clean" it seems.
"fake towns"?? SUBURBIA is the one that's fake, not NU.
jeffsandychelsea 1 month ago
If you're gonna build a happy community with fine homes, Don,t build them with the same materials that everyone else uses, and all the homes will look like something out of a cheesy display. Thats what they mean by fake. Do the fine old neighborhoods that those people 100 years ago look cheesy? no. They weren't all built at the same time. To build perfect homes they need to be custom, no plastic columns, fences, or siding. But the social community Seems to be perfect.
bmp456 9 months ago 3
I'm a 24 year old geography student. New Urbanism is the way of the future. I don't want to live in a suburb.
Nightmonkey17 10 months ago 4
Hi, this is great and as a land use planner I see the benefit and I was raised in the old row homes in Louisville. I also design walkable communities as well and have a new 5 minute video at otis31755 or geo-life.org
otis31755 11 months ago
How the hell can anybody criticize New Urbanism in favor of suburbia? Suburbia is soulless and needs to be destroyed.
Castaril 1 year ago
Nothing is better than a walkable community, where you can leave your home and actually see people out and about living their lives. Suburbia is a nightmare.
Castaril 1 year ago
love this vid!
artisticanime 1 year ago
these designs might look cute but the true american dream is when I can mow the lawn naked behnd my fenced bungalow. New urbanism doesn't provide that
MrJudube 1 year ago
@MrJudube
You are absolutely wrong. The New Urbanism has a transcent which displays different types of developments. Just because Kentlands and Seaside does not give you the privacy you need, does not mean that ALL NU towns will be like that.
If you see the transect, you will find T1 where people can have 1/2 acre lots. Unfortunately you have your right, but you wont get the benefits of being close to your daily needs.
Cyrus992 1 year ago
@MrJudube WTF is with people and the " american dream"? There is NO american dream. That's just some made up thing they used so people would move to the suburbs
xxx2397 4 months ago
I admire many New Urbanist viewpoints, but there is a few things we must improve:
-DO NOT implement new codes. Just sell the product. Look at how codes made the post WW2 disaster
-DO NOT try to solve climate change. GW is not manmade.
-Fight for PRIVATE light rail. Learn from the subsidized highway disaster
-DO NOT lobby. NU will get tons of criticism for "forcing" people. Look at how GM and Big Oil lobbied and made the mess we have today
Fight for a Free Market New Urbanism!
Cyrus992 1 year ago
I love the new urbanism and tnd.
internetfan2005 1 year ago
Not every suburb is a hellhole...I'm tired of that urban elitism.
The one I grew up in was safe, friendly, and quaint, with access to good education, food, and plenty of culture. I do welcome the more distinctive architecture of new urbanism, but not everyone can afford these more expensive houses/locales. However, the "Oh, those new urban towns aren't 'real' towns" perspective is annoying, condescending, and ridiculous.
GreenGretel 1 year ago
So glad to hear that sprawl isn't going to go away. I was getting a little scared it might be in danger.
jstanley011 1 year ago
feels strange... those guys promote this WOL as the new way to go and in europe we know nothing else. these sprawl suburbs show what horrible can happen if gasoline is sold to people for next to nothing over 60 years! they are the real fake-towns. I think theyre rather made for cars than for people.
3rdMayhem 1 year ago
The suburban lifestyle is the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
I cant believe Randal O Toole and Wendell Cox are HIGHLY against this.. Sure they have great urban planning points, but they fail to recognize the beauty, charm, connectivity, and balance of these wonderful towns. We must compromise with these individuals who advocate property rights, but at least most NU towns have a high portion of single family homes.. just NOT the big box, strip mall messes..
Cyrus992 1 year ago
Dirty lies
FreyaEinde 1 year ago
I am for sprawl and single family homes...
I dont like however, post WWII development patterns...
Cyrus992 1 year ago
The thing is... New Urbanism's goal SHOULD NOT BE STOPPING SPRAWL... It should be...
SPRAWLING THE RIGHT WAY!! Kentlands, Seaside, and Celebration.. is sprawl and most of the housing are regular single family homes.. We CAN KEEP THE AMERICAN DREAM WITH NEW URBANISM... But..
We must cut down on big box stores, strip malls, fast food chains...
We should stop calling New Urbanism anti-sprawl.... Its a FOOLISH MYTH...
Cyrus992 1 year ago
@Cyrus992 No, she should actually be stopping sprawl. We can't turn the Earth into a city.
mistaspot1 1 year ago
@mistaspot1 What about the growing population who wants detached homes??? We should NOT FORCE people to live in higher density.. At least Kentlands has a high percentage of detached homes. I hope you have no concerns over that.
Cyrus992 1 year ago
I am ALL for this type of development...BUT in reality most people don't have the resource$ to demand or purchase sensible development. Most people take what is built...and guess what is being built? I almost wish a meteor would fall and wipe out a huge swath of suburbia so we could start over...(No, not really).
Makorow 1 year ago
The design of the homes, neighborhoods, architecture, and public transit of the 1920's-30's was just about ideal, and I'm glad to see that there is hope that we will return to that sort of neighborhood. Look at any of the closer-in suburbs of a large, older city in the USA, and you'll find sensibly sized houses with beautiful arched windows, covered front porches, within walking distance to schools, small stores, and old streetcar lines.
Tubes12AX7k 1 year ago
new urbanism is big here in charlotte
anthonym267 1 year ago
Honestly, people do live there, and people do run real lives, and real successes but these towns really are fake. You know what it is? It is a suburbia with a newurban facade to disguise the suburbia it really is. These designs are safe and diffident to make a change.
circuitspec 1 year ago
Why would anyone say they aren't real towns?? What? A bunch of cookie cutter huge ass houses in the middle of nowhere is a "real town?" The best amenity they offer is quick access to the freeway and the Walmart half a mile away.
jeffsandychelsea 2 years ago 4
cyrus992, you put up some very good points and i think i gave everyone a thumbs up haha The government is responsible for zoning laws but i think its important to note that it is the LOCAL governments that really control these things. bureaus and counties primarily, a few states (north carolina's comes to mind) but the federal government has left zoning codes alone. recently though, the HUD, EPA, and the DOT have created the Partnership for Sustainable Communities. you should check it out.
mjh5225 2 years ago
cyrus992 - the government already gives us nonsense rules and regulations on planning... it's called single-use zoning. it pretty much makes it ILLEGAL to create traditional style neighborhoods and forces developers to instead create the seperated residential zones with wide streets and low densities, strip malls with gargantuan parking lots on 4-lane highways, and office 'parks' that are as close to a park as is the surface of the moon. that is sprawl, and those regulations are what is nonsense
mjh5225 2 years ago
mjh5225:
People often assume that suburbia is something created with excess freedom, sure people have yards and a house... BUT NOT EVERYONE FOR GOODNESS SAKE DONT LIKE TO DRIVE SO MUCH!!
I share similar ideas to so many people and lots of people like them...but the ideas of Duany must be done in a free market system instead of new codes..
The problem is some people believe that NU forces people to live diiferently, but if it did then no one would move to Kentlands or Seaside...
Cyrus992 2 years ago
Cyrus: I'm not exactly sure how sprawl should be fazed out; whether it be with new regulations or by letting free market take over. my one concern with the market approach is that globalized corps like walmart and mcdonalds already have too much power and influence on americans' lives and how development is shaped. sadly, i feel that people just accept the sprawl lifestyle without thinking that there are better ways. i fear that people may be too lazy or scared to seek new ways to live
mjh5225 2 years ago
the funny thing about NU is the communities are looked on as great places and southern NU developments are visited often for vacation by suburbanites and they dont fight to have those built everywh. one of my favorite sprawl-bashing authors is James Howard Kunstler. his 'home from nowhere' and 'geography of nowhere' books offer amazing thoughts and incite on the subject of sprawl. they are written with pretty humorous wit too. i feel like you would appreciate them if you don't already have them!
mjh5225 2 years ago
@mjh5225
Our society had a true free market in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The result was it delivered us beautiful and memorable streetcar towns and stick and queen anne style buildings.
Free Market is NOT the problem. Corporate Facism is. That allowed lobbying from the asphalt, cement, oil, car, fast food, big box companies to impose new laws to control us by creating highways, land-use segregation influences cul-de-sacs, collector roads, etc..
It still happens with O Toole
Cyrus992 1 year ago
Its best to let the free market design our places, NOT THE GOVERNMENT RUN PLANNING DEPARTMENTS THAT GIVE US MOSTLY NONSENSE RULES AND REGULATIONS!!!!
If people like New Urbanism then they should help grow companies like DPZ, if they like sprawl then DPZ will compete, and innovation will arrive!!!
Cyrus992 2 years ago
We need government rules and regulations in the same way that we need consciousness to intervene for an orderly society. Sprawl is like a spoiled child that feels the world revolves around them. And, like a spoiled child, they feel that they should not have to suffer any consequences for their actions. Suburbanites are not paying for the true cost of sprawl, everyone else is.
mindvox626 2 years ago
Sprawl is not the result of excess freedom, its the result of too much government rules and regulations with the nonsense building and zoning laws that DICTATE the way we should build our places.
Just like many things the government does, ITS A DISASTER like the schools they run!!
If we had more liberty in our planning, then more Kentlands and Seaside towns will prosper!!
Cyrus992 2 years ago 3
It's best to not let the Free Market do anything. It's set the world back.
Blackwater1 2 years ago
Blackwater1:
Give me example?? Should we have dictators running and planning our cities and towns!!??
Cyrus992 2 years ago
Should we have dictators planning our towns? Doesn't sound like a bad idea. Look at Spanish and Italian cities. They were all built with a dictated plan and not one US city could be compared to them visually or functionally. American's haven't really built anything really good since the 1930s.
Blackwater1 2 years ago
Blackwater1: I
t seems that you are refering to government beauracracy does a nice job!!??? Not really, they have no intention to innovate or compete. They are the punks who created suburbia with its dumb zoning laws and codes...
This is America built on the foundation of free-market. We should not have a serious problem in our urbanism. Whatever the urbanism is...profit driven innovation is the key!!
Cyrus992 2 years ago
Uh actually the Automobile and developers trying to escape regulations on city building have led to suburbia. Capitalism is dead and the free market killed it. It needs an overhaul to become successful and even moral again. The reckless pursuit of profit has come before the well being of the world population for far too long.
Blackwater1 2 years ago
Blackwater1 explain this:
how come for YEARS after building "strip malls" in suburbia, VERY FEW have offices and condos very built above the retail!!??? Come on, I am sure developers love to do that because it is profitable and marketable. That does not happen because "suburbia" IS REGULATED HIGHLY MAKING IT ILLEGAL!!
Try building a town like Kentlands, see if those meddling planinng and government departments will approve it!!
Cyrus992 2 years ago
You obviously don't know what you are talking about because not only is there little logic in your comments but they are far from reality. Suburban housing is regulated by a homeowners association. However there are plenty of 2 story strip malls and office buildings in the suburbs. The city is where the strict zoning and building codes are for obvious reasons.
Blackwater1 2 years ago
@Cyrus992 The problem with the free market is that people can't individually plan good communities, it has to be done collectively from a central authority. Also, most Americans have never grown up in a community where they can walk to destinations and see people out and about, so they don't know any better. The government needs to subsidize walkable communities because they are the future.
Castaril 1 year ago
@Castaril
Okay.. but who were the suck-ups and maniacs who created the auto-oriented suburbs in the last 70 years?
The Central Planning Authority!
Who were bastards who helped made it happen with zoning and codes?
Oil, Cement, Asphalt, Car, Big Box, and Fast Food companies
What helped create the beautiful streetcar towns with the stick and queen anne styled buildings?
Mostly the free market.
Lets do it differently, to avoid criticsm from F*cktards like O'Toole and Cox!
Cyrus992 1 year ago
@Cyrus992 The free market only created those nice small towns out of necessity, when most people didn't own cars. The central planners purposefully did the opposite of what they were supposed to do after WWII with their zoning laws. The free market will never create a town like Seaside, FL.
Castaril 1 year ago
@Castaril
But why not? If we can spread the word on how these auto-oriented suburbs are destroying our finances, environment, traffic time/flow, health, social and cultural life, and of course energy supply.. people would rather live in these sustainiblity instead of being slaughtered in these nasty suburbs.
Eventually they will sell. With oil depletion and the global currency crisis... there will be a demand for a more localized network and the demand will rise. People then have choice.
Cyrus992 1 year ago
DITCH SUBURBIA!
pavilionking06 2 years ago 3
pavilionking06: you mean the suburbs built after WWII. The 1800's and early 1900's are designed very well.
Cyrus992 2 years ago
Cement is cheaper then steel, and large centers may have been an anchor but they were also centers of filth, overcrowding and corruption.
Trains will need security as airports do, personally I think the future will be in having personal aircraft to allow people to live further apart and work were they see fit.
Knoss 2 years ago
Urbanism IS the American Dream... Suburban sprawl was the American Nightmare... Interstates, Airports, Strip Malls, and would be the death of this country
ikerzgrove 2 years ago 28
If it wasn't the for the car America wouldn't be united.
Knoss 2 years ago
Check out Poundbury, a New Uberanism town built by HRH The Prince of Wales!
Ohyewildthong 2 years ago
Why it took so long for consumers / residence to realize the benefit for these kind of compact design ? I guess they don't care about the long commute, social isolation and financial burden of urban sprawl.
urbanewal 2 years ago 7
The demise of cheap oil will doom suburbia forever... by 2025 a surplus of 22 million suburban homes will be on the market. New urbanism is the only way to go. It's all going to be about sustainability now.
Fritzer73 3 years ago 2
you pretty smart bro, neva thought of it that way
ericevanson21 2 years ago
My problem with a place like Seaside, Fl is that it seems static and unchanging. I bet there are a million and one CCRs to keep it exactly as it was built. It may be good planning and design, but could anything unexpected ever happen there?
mistygarden 3 years ago 2
When you say "unexpected" do you mean a spontaneous streetside BBQ, a gasline break, or an unusual house with wacky features? I know there are some codes there to limit to a colonial style, but they are very open about variety.
PaulieFetz 2 years ago
Yeah it looks like The Stepford Wifes '09. Shrink wrapped in plastic and as dull as dish water. A gas pipe could rupture there just as easily as any place else. And what's wrong with a curbside BBQ? Or is it only a certain type of someone you imagine having one of those? You can keep Seaside, I'd rather live in the imperfect real world as a human than like an automaton in some Walt Disney bad dream.
mistygarden 2 years ago
@mistygarden "My problem with a place like Seaside, Fl is that it seems static and unchanging."
Suburbia isn't static? The place serves as a function for the people to live their lives. Because people age and new generations are born, compact communities are never static. I know people who live in in suburbia and don't even know their neighbors, and hardly see them. That's depressing.
Castaril 1 year ago
Of all the issues driving sprawl, immigration is probably near the bottom of the list. The big money is in more upscale development. Is there any data to support this argument or is this just an attempt to apply one issue to another for political purposes?
misternhh 3 years ago
I agree that it's more about the money than the number of people, but remember that immigrants are upwardly mobile, too, and more often than not move to the suburbs once they've saved up enough. There has been a lot of reporting done in the last few years about new immigrants actually heading straight to the suburbs -- many were recipients of subprime loans.
When half or more of the nation's population growth is due to it, I don't think it's a stretch to link immigration to sprawl.
trusty72 3 years ago
All you greenies who hate urban sprawl need to face the cause: mass immigration.
Developments don't just 'form'--IMMIGRANTS (legal and illegal), mostly from developing countries, provide the ever-expanding warm body-supply of fecund foreigners to keep the developers in business.
Developers give a LOT of money to parties like the Democrats (and ex-prez Dubya), to liberalize immigration laws.
When Mexico implodes, you people are going to end up with a HORRENDOUS immigrant influx/sprawl problem.
acsial 3 years ago
New Urbanism is Old Urbanism re-planted. This is NOT a criticism but simply a statement of fact. It is town planning done RIGHT. It can be applied with a range of income groups, and IS applied with a range of income groups. Note the mention of RENTAL properties in New Urbanist developments.
The next frontier is New Urbanism as infill development.
Imagine the boost to holistic economies with the close knit nature of New Urbanist places.
jakebarnes28 3 years ago 2
i am a strong advocate for sustainable urban design but a lot of these newer designed communities are alienating those of us with less money. walkable and bikeable homes should be available for all income levels. here in albuquerque theyve built new mixed use sectors but they act like they invented it and people here dont know that...they charge like $300,000 for them..smart growth is not a new idea we're just going back to how we did it before we built cities for cars
505boogie 3 years ago
DONT GET FOOLED: American dream: YES.
Your OWN idea of utopia? NO!
If i wanted my own individual freedom(famous american freedom) to live as i wanted? i just couldnt!
it is ONE IDEA that is HOMOGENEOUSELY SPREAD ALL OVER
yacetube 3 years ago
NU works if everybody has relatively high incomes and/or are a homogenous group such as Greeks, Italians owning shops or the like. If you look at new urbanism and the like applied in Britian with normal people, you will see a larger crime rate DUE to communal property, common entrances to a home, back alleys etc.
paleo99 3 years ago
Architecture is expensive so- most of these places and for rich folks- but in portland and seattle low income versions have been very positive.
chasybear 3 years ago
i live in kentlands that place with the chinese characters is call Yo-yogi's
footballislife82 3 years ago
One day New Urbanism will rise like a great Phoenix from the ashes of urban sprawl. Human scale will be revived as will the sense of community that is manifested from it. Our bodies will be healthier, our air cleaner, and our minds more resilant. The ideals and ambitions of our early founders will finally be constructed and America will take it's place among truely great nations.
Until that day comes, help spread the word of New Urbanism. Yea!
r3dfella 3 years ago 2
You mentioned it!!! wonderful points given! I hope there are more individuals can realize that how depressing urban sprawl is!!!
Have you been doing something to spread the word because I have!!
Cyrus992 3 years ago
I want to create a New Urbanism Awareness campaign. The movement needs a glossy informational website that can convincingly "sell" the idea of NU to those who are unfamilar with it. Once the knowledge is out there and people realize that they don't have to deal with urban sprawl no more, they'll effectively push down the barriers preventing NU. The major goal right now should be to swell up a critical mass of NU promoters. Only then will change come.
Power to the people!
r3dfella 3 years ago
Reply to r3dfella:
PLEASE LET ME PART OF YOUR CAMPAIGN!! I WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!
Cyrus992 3 years ago
I sure can. Im with you.
TheMeltinJohnShow 3 years ago
The people of NEW URBANISM especially Andres Duany are HEROES!!!!
Living conditions in suburbia is awful!! The main reasons people would dislike NEW URBANISM is because of their boxy and boring MCMANSIONS and big box stores!!! Who needs them? They are not as good as you think they are!
What is so hard about NEW URBANISM? Why sprawl? Hopefully someday this will be DOMINANT!!!!!!
Cyrus992 3 years ago 3
In who's world is living in a suburb awful living conditions? I have a one story home and a paved drive and an 8 foot fence around it all. I never see or hear anyone else in my subdivision and I don't know them. Everything I need is within a 15 or 20 minute drive and I never have to go to the city core for any reason. What more could you want save maybe living in the country proper?
realsamwise 3 years ago
Some people are just more sociable & like interacting with neighbors. Others appreciate the options for driving less in walkable neighborhoods (especially with $3-4 gas). Kids, too, have more options - for school, play, work, worship, etc. - and do not have to nag a parents (chauffeur) to go here or there.
Beyond the lifestyle and aesthetic preferences, conventional suburbia has recently become a financial burden. So perhaps the "awfulness" assigned to it is rooted in buyer's remorse.
tgold1968 3 years ago 2
I think too we need to define suburbia. There are places where you drive most of 100 miles or more to get from the outer suburbs to the city core. Cities of 100,000 or so have suburbs that are 15 or 20 minutes from the city proper. Also most places now mix retail in with housing to a degree. Yes they are big box stores but I for one don't care if I get what I need from a big box or a small one. Most people in my subdivision drive less then five miles to shop and no more then 10 or 15 to work.
realsamwise 3 years ago
Agreed. The thing about NU is that it came about as a reaction to the disappointments some people were experiencing with suburban sprawl (not suburbia per se). That is, it was a reaction to a general pattern of development and the choice-limiting lifestyle it offered... one that obligated one to drive everywhere and for everything, provided only a watered-down version of nature, and which was socially isolating at times. This fits the bill for lots of people, but not for those who prefer NU.
tgold1968 3 years ago
We need to MANAGE oil demand destruction.
Think CarFree. Invest CarFree. Get CarFree.
And New Urbanism provides a way of improving our living, while moving towards CarFree.
GreenEnergyInvestors dotcom is a place to build understanding, and explore the concepts
BubbFromGEI 3 years ago 2
New Urbanism is a good idea heavily promoted but oh so badly executed. I'm appalled at how inept and inappropriate most of the crowded-together developer produced home designs are. Colonial Williamsburg, designed by Ted Jacobsen (one of my early mentors) is
immensely better than most of these if one must pursue the past. Jerry Gropp AIA a long-time residential architect.
JGropp2 3 years ago
To alanhowitzer: I agree that it is very difficult to change outdated zoning laws, now that it has gone to local control. One solution would be to have a new developer with lots of money come in, and say that the township has to accommodate ALL types of development, or make sure that no changes can be made in zoning, like sprawl subdivisions. For those in Southeast PA, I'm having a conference on sprawl.
treepolitik 4 years ago
I like the ideas of New Urbanism, but the aesthetics and architecture rub me the wrong way. I'm anxious to see where it will go as a movement in the future!
lofiunico 4 years ago
There are NU developments with "edgy" architecture, too. Check out Prospect New Town in Colorado. It has MUCH different architecture, but offers it without undermining all the pedestrian oriented accommodations that make NU great.
tgold1968 3 years ago
when the fossil fuels run out living somewhere that isnt walkable will be total hell .
watch james howard kunstler find out about peak oil , people will move to the old towns if they can and the suburbs will be screwed
bearsagainstevil 4 years ago
Here is why we are doomed. Today I saw Nancy Pelosi Dem. rep from CA. Doing EXACTLY what we can expect from politicians. Asking the government to release its oil reserves to drive prices down. Only price will get anyone to conserve. But lowering costs/helping the poor pay for oil is a ticket to office. She says "Natural gas is the way to go. "It's Cheap abundant and clean unlike fossil fuels". Nobody has told her natural gas is a fossil fuel and is neither cheap abundant or "clean" it seems.
realsamwise 3 years ago
No, she's wrong. You can't pursue your own vision of utopia. Our archaic town codes prevent and restrict developments like the Kentlands or Seaside.
alanhowitzer 4 years ago 18