Tony Blair and Christopher Hitchens Debate Religion - Munk Debate

[ThePhantom135]

If you need a book written by nomadic goat herders to tell you not to kill people or donate to charities, you're pretty fucked up.

[gwtnddt9497]

what the fuck? did you listen, blair. he never said kim jong il is a religious icon

[passivemotion]

FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT. Religion isn't needed to learn morals. Thank you Hitchens. RIP

[nath6644]

How dare Blair link Fascism and Communism with Atheism! Aside from the fact that lack of belief in an ideology is hardly justification for committing mass murder, Hitler was a Roman Catholic who claimed in Mein Kampf he was doing God's will. The SS swore allegience to God in their oath to Hitler.

As for Communism, Stalinism fuctioned to all intents and purposes like a state religion. An infalliable authority, rites and rituals, unquestionable obedience...its all there.

[dopeasfuckk]

Hitchens at 1:49 12:57 17:55 22:27

[dopeasfuckk]

I thought Blair was one of those politicians that use religion, turns out he's just another elephant queef

[Monsolol]

Sure faith might be something good to believe in for this generation that has already had it instilled in the heads. But please don't force it onto other people and especially innocence children.

[dopeasfuckk]

@Monsolol its bad for them too, but if they pass it on to their kids it is child abuse and they deserve nothing less than a crack in their skull

[MrSimmondsTeaParty]

They're so modest in their presence.

[dilwich123]

Shame it wasnt Blair who got cancer instead of the great man Hitchens.

[writersblock26]

@dilwich123 Shame on you for wishing cancer on anyone-- even a somewhat opportunist politician.

[dilwich123]

@writersblock26 Its a BIG World out there and alot more is happening than a silly small minded person being upset due to a rather pointless comment regarding cancer.Grow up.

[writersblock26]

@dilwich123 For the record, I am all grown up, and you know what? It turns out that I did not need your help. Thanks.

[tylerledger]

We miss you already. RIP.

[gorganloe]

RIP Christopher :(

[Helios601]

Nobody mention Mr Blair has inadvertingly killed children by blindingly bakcing the u.s with Iraq,Tthe last time I read the bible, Jesus was quite clear on that one -Harm a hair on a childs head, and it would be better for you to hang a stone pendant round your neck and jump in the ocean' that children have guardian angels who look continually on the face of thy heavenly father' Oh dear Mr Blair....it's not looking too good is it. imho anyone who has a hand in the deaths/hurt

[Helios601]

of a child are finnished

[TTx04xCOBRA]

Fuck religion! Fuck you if your religious! Fuck religion!!

[PairInstabilityType]

Hitchens is on fire :D very true and inspiring words

[Harizl]

Tony Blaire certainly read the same books as the rest of the right-wing morons.

[AlamEssa]

religion is poison or opium of masses

[DaAlphaOmega]

theres good and bad people with and without faith,so the worl would get along just fine without religion cuz there is no difference.

[TimeGod12]

@DaAlphaOmega Yes I am sure ur wife will get along just fine with ur neighbour in his bed.

Religion will stop ur wife from spreading her legs for other men. (Thy shall not commit adultery).

Absence of religion makes the society lose its morals and the civilization goes into a decline. Example Roman empire.

[DaAlphaOmega]

@TimeGod12 Your wrong,we have learned over time what is most benefitial to make society function,respect me and ill respect you,do on to others as you would have them do on to you.We have learned that an action has a reaction which in turn causes a chain reaction,you do something to me and i retaliate and so on,it goes back back and forth,nobody wins,we have broken the cycle to make society work,most people are civilized,im not religious and i am more moral than the God of the bible.

[petion2010]

@TimeGod12 Religion is the problem in the first. What makes you think society declines when they lose religion. Europe didn't decline with the enlightenment now did it. In fact, Rome was mostly christian when the empire collapses.

[TimeGod12]

@petion2010 Rome was full of apathy, greed, lust before its decline. Nothing christian about it.

Europe is declining with its high divorce rate, teen pregnancy, media manipulation, loss of family values.

[Fight4Reason]

@TimeGod12 Ahh...The double standard...

[petion2010]

@TimeGod12 So, in those centuries when they ruled the Mediterranean, there were none of those things. Your argumenbt is plain ridiculous. And Christians Europe was no different, greed, apathy, lust, and power hungry. Your view of Europe is stupid too.

[atheistjacob]

@TimeGod12 Absence of religion makes people lose their morals? Do you honestly have any idea where morals come from? Morals are subjective to the person, but generally follow the societal norms of the time. We, as a matter of fact, have seen morals in America evolve over the last mere half a century. We've seen more cultural evolution as more Christians either became less strict in their belief or outright deconverted.

[atheistjacob]

Christianity is much less moral than atheism because atheism has no moral code dictating racism, misogyny, homophobia, death for apostasy, punishment for breaking the sabbath, death for committing adultery, etc. Not to mention that you guys don't even follow the words of your own savior. He said, " And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." Still have both eyes

[mmackinnon1992]

@THEBIGCAGEY most likely due to the fact that he was a big smoker and recently quit. people who smoke and quit tend to constantly move their hands

[izaccy]

For the last part when Tony Blair argues that despite all the religious massacre throughout history, religion also have done something good.

I then ask at a terrible prize sir. it might have done good, but at what cost ?

[givemeblowjob69]

Hitchensssssssssssssss you fucking legend

[ButterflyStorms]

As far as I'm concerned Tony Blair is a war criminal who knew full well that the Invasion of Iraq was based upon lies and deceits. Tony Blair should be brought to justice and certainly not listened to as he is either very,very stupid or a liar in the first degree.

[G58]

Whenever I have the misfortune to see that dishonest, fatuous, arse licking bastard Bliar, it makes me long for the days when men of conviction were still brave enough to leave their houses in the morning with a good rifle and a job to do. Not all the targets were legitimate, but at least someone took the initiative. When our countries were taken to war on the basis of a lie [sorry Hitch, you were wrong about this one], we were all made complicit in that crime.

[chazzplaya]

Well you have to admit Blair did a lot better than lots of the people Hitchens goes up against

[shayanaali]

I love hearing Christopher Hitchens talk. He seems to echo my thoughts in such a logical and coherent fashion.

[Paul2uall]

On his worst day Hitchens could take Blair.

It's no coincidence that Blair converted AFTER he stepped down as PM. We're not religious fanatics in the UK, and we don't vote for religious fanatics! You need to move to the US for that!

God B Less!

[wardzer]

Fuck Hitchens is looking so old now, makes me sad.

[codalmighty88]

So in other words, Blair is religious not in the sense that he believes any of this supernatural stuff, but just because he wants to be a nice person and it seems like the best way to be nice?

I wonder how common that mindset is; it could explain (a) the amount of aid given by the religious community, and (b) why there are so many religious people still about now that the intellectual debate is over and they've been shown to be wrong...

[HabeKeinMitleid]

At least Tony Blair has a brain and doesn't pull shit out of his ass like most religious people a lot of us have met.

[leftovers0]

@HabeKeinMitleid

Agreed, this was a genuinely entertaining and interesting debate between two rational people. Hitchens was still in control, logically, the whole way through, but Blair concisely and confidently argued the best points he could from the position he had.

[dhx84]

I suspect Blair has a condition known as "Married Into Wife's Church."

It happens to a lot of people.

[anananwar]

That was one of the strongest debates for religion i've ever come across, and still it doesn't hold a candle against Hitchens.

[HabeKeinMitleid]

@anananwar Even when Hitchens is completely wrong and everyone knows it, you still can't argue with Hitchens... Good man.

[LoveLostInMyHead]

I could see Hitch grinding his teeth as Blair mentioned Einstein out of context. I'm very surprised that Hitchens didn't go into how Hitler was religious, and Stalin based his ideology on religious fervor. Good to see him on his feet again, I saw a more recent clip where he's growing hair again even!

[RenegadeMaster07]

@LoveLostInMyHead Einstein died as a deist.

[LoveLostInMyHead]

@RenegadeMaster07 That could be argued, but I think it would have to be under a fairly unique category, as I'm sure all people who believe in any strange deity they could make up. I'm sure Einstein would not go outside of his own logical processes to appease said thought up God.

[RenegadeMaster07]

@LoveLostInMyHead yeh, he thought it was a logical necessity, however could not assign it to any known definition of God.

As a christian a lot of what Einstein said is definitely not in support of what i said, but i don't wish to make the fallacy of appealing to an authority anyway. I am annoyed by those who do and insist he must've been atheist.

Truth is it doesn't matter in the slightest if Einstein was Theist, Atheist, Deist, it's irrelevant to truth.

[LoveLostInMyHead]

@RenegadeMaster07 agreed, but I will point out, that you pointed it out :)

[RenegadeMaster07]

@LoveLostInMyHead I did that's true, but not to advance my own position, so it's ok :p lol

[LoveLostInMyHead]

@RenegadeMaster07 LMAO, very well. :)

[KaonNeutre]

Christopher Hitchens is a GIANT. I hope society will get on his shoulder so we could see farther.

[dlite922]

I didn't know Blaire was such an idiot. Oh wait. I had a clue. I should have known.

He said it's rational to think there's a higher power. That we shouldn't be imprisoned but "empowered"...

Forcing someone to choose a dogma for whatever reason is not empowerment, but in fact imprisonment of the free will.

[ElCID40000]

Atheism is not a religion by any stretch of the imagination, it is the absence of religion and the acceptance of reality.

Ignorance is a gift to realists as it makes the wise strive for knowledge.

Religious faith teaches people to be satisfied with ignorance, because religious faith requires the suspension of reasoned thought.

[Multimorten]

damnit Christopher, get well, we need you too damn much, now more than ever

[mythicalhell]

@Multimorten Unfortunately he won't! I hate all cancers, but especially the kind Hitchens has. My biggest concern is how the religious ASSHOLES will react when Hitchens dies. You know as well as me those heartless dolts will claim that their god punished Hitchens with an early death. Anyway, Hitchens WILL BE VERY MUCH MISSED BY MANY, MANY PEOPLE!

[Multimorten]

@mythicalhell the thought had hit me. If it happens, and those heartless bastards start spewing hatred again, I will get upset, use my powers for evil and such. I wont give up on Hitchens just yet, call me an optimist. Just feels like if Hitchens die, its an empty world we step into

[mythicalhell]

@Multimorten When he dies we need to make him bigger than ever just like when jeebus died they literally made him divine, well, we'll make hitch divine

[Multimorten]

@mythicalhell agreed, and lets make it like the believers do, any believer cant step into where his memory is shared

[mythicalhell]

@Multimorten agreed :)

[phoenixbrew]

The great Mr. Hitchens!!!!

[wowamonn]

Oh snap! Chirstopher is on fire!!

[ryanith2]

we are created sick and commanded to be well is wrong... thats not what the Bible says...

[mowgli123456789]

does no one else think the debate about religions utility kind of pointless!? is it A true or B not true...

[EntinludeX]

Someone got tore a new Hitchhole? Yeah. Yeah they did.

[newrev9er]

Of all the people who they could have gotten to debate Mr. Hitchens, why on earth would they choose Tony Blair?

[elleXgen]

I believe the Munk Debate was started by the Tony Blair Faith Foundation, thats why.

Also, as a converted Catholic it's in his best interest to debate Pro. @newrev9er

[TheModelification]

Atheism is a Religion, because you believe, you have faith there is no God without proof. When you die, it is only then you see the truth.

Go back to the definition of faith. Faith is believing in something without proof. Religion is a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. Atheism is defined as the doctrine or belief that there is no God. Therefore Atheism is a religion.

.

Allen West 2012

[nidodson]

@TheModelification

No, I have proof there is no such thing as a soul, that through laws of physics planets, life and intelligence formed. I also know that through the histories of mythologies, aka religions, how they have changed through time, and that they are all just mythologies.

Nothing about religion adds up, nor the concept of a god, especially an immoral one we see in Christianity and other Judeo based faiths.

[nidodson]

@TheModelification

Lastly, you are saying Atheism is a religion, when Theism isn't even a religion. Religion is a sub-category of theism. Another sub-category is Deism, which isn't a religion, but still believes in a god. So you are over generalizing the term religion as perspective of reality.  Yours requires faith, mine requires proof based on a blank slate.

[bradmanthethird]

@nidodson

Actually Deism is not a sub-category of theism since the root is theism is teo (or theo or something like that) which means father, theism refers specifically to a father-like god that at the very least knows and cares about what's happening on earth and intervenes at least some times.

[nidodson]

@bradmanthethird

Theism is the concept of a belief in a god(s), and Atheism is the negative form of Theism, which requires Deism to qualify under Theism.

The root is actually theos, which in Greek God/Creator/Theos is θεός and Father/Papa is πατέρας.

Now the term Theist in today's current English is not as closely linked to Theism as it was in the past. Theists believe in an all governing god, while Deists believe in a god. So Deist is not a sub-category of Theist. Isms are not ists.

[bradmanthethird]

@TheModelification

If Atheism is a religion then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

[Bellantoni]

The Hitch commences at 1:48