Beautiful Nauvoo: Where Joseph Smith is the Superstar

[mdlinks]

Please do not introduce logic into a discussion with a Mormon. It confuses them.

[IExposeMormonism]

minute 4:30, Pentagram on the walls behind speaker. Jail is Freemason. Everyone inside the jail and everyone outside the jail was a Freemason. The jail had no real lock. People came and went. It was a set up.

[DoubtingThomasPoMo]

I don't need to pray to know that spreading false information is unethical. I vouch for the facts, not the person saying them. Nothing he said was inaccurate and if you are going to call someone a liar the burden of proof is on you to show where he is lying. If you want to be able to serve Christ, act like him. First, stop with the name calling. Second, educate yourself on the issues. Saying that something is true or false when you don't know the facts is bearing false witness.

[DoubtingThomasPoMo]

If you are honestly looking to be able to relate to non-LDS people or ex-LDS, check out the mormonstories channel or website, especially the video Why People Leave The Church. It's done by a believing active member and talks about some of the issues people have with the church, and they are valid.

[marcopolo8765]

We often tone down our re- enactments to make them less offensive toward other religons. Isn't there enough offense yet from other religions against us already. We can't control what you guys do but we can control our own actions. In hope that you stop the contention. It is sad, extremely sad what we have given up in order to keep the peace. But we can't please everyone. Someone will always find fault no matter what we do.

[drinkswithnedkelly]

@marcopolo8765 The LDS church has no choice but to water down and lie about it's history. Few people that read the real history can stay in the church. For example Holy Joe and his 33 wives, many teenagers and some married to other men,. Or how Holy Joe used the occult method of scrying to write the BoMormon (it wasnt translated, it was scryed) or the completely made up Book of Abraham.

[dorisfenella]

@drinkswithnedkelly Antimormons like only to mention the youngers because they want to give their comment a lustful connotation. Who is lying?

In honor to the truth.You should mention the women almost twice his age he married to.

And that he never had another offsprings but with Emma. Strange isn´t it?

[DoubtingThomasPoMo]

Marcopolo the problem with your argument is that you are coming from a very weak position. Not only are you completely ignorant of the facts you are also insufferably arrogant. As an active LDS member (not an evil apostate) I can vouch for the facts stated by dfwsunking. Anyone investigating dfws claims can verify them in 10 minutes on the internet. You are doing your church a disservice by continuing to spew your ignorance.

[marcopolo8765]

i was not aware that I was argueing brother. And yes some of the claims made by him are accurate but there is a difference in stating just the facts and stating a fact and then adding some personal opinion a down right lie hear and there. If you are a saint i would emplore you to pray about vouching for an apostate. Cause i have heard some real dousies from him. But since your hear How would you better serve our friend and remain in service to Christ as well?

[dfwsunking]

I find it funny. Mormons claim they're the only true and living church, the Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book and that the prophet for the church can never lead his people astray. Yet when anyone challenges those claims and presents evidence (much of it from the church's own history) that contradicts those claims, the church takes offense, labels them as hateful, attackful liars. They like making the claims to bring in new converts but hate it when anyone challenges them.

[marcopolo8765]

any talk about the true chruch of Christ the lds church is very welcome. We provide accurate and detailed records for all to see because we dont hide from our past or make attempts to cover anything up. I am not sure who you have been talking to and let me make it clear that all saints are imperfect beings. But we all also consider and label you as a brother.

[dfwsunking]

If you don't cover anything up, why did the church:

1. Edit quotes by Brigham Young in the manual used by the Relief Society to portray him as a monogamist rather than a polygamist?

2. show films of Joseph Smith looking at the gold plates translating the Book of Mormon when he actually had his head in a hat with a seer stone?

3. omit that Joseph Smith shot and killed two people at the Carthage jail, smoked and drank there, took off his garments and tried using the Masonic call of distress?

[marcopolo8765]

lol, um man you look really silly acting as if you know these things you are saying are true. With absolutly no evidence to back up what you say. See the church keeps very accurate records for everyone to see at any time. We make those records avaiable at any time. The things you speak of are myth and rederick spewd from the mouths of excommunicated members to make themselves feel justiified in them leaving Christ. If leaving Christ is your path then your on it. But please quit trying to take us

[dfwsunking]

"No evidence to back up what you say". I find this hilarious coming from someone who defends the Book of Mormon which has absolutely no evidence to back it up. Sorry, but I do have evidence. Allow me to enlighten you...

[dfwsunking]

Changes in the church manual:

"...Let the father be the head of the family, the master of his own household; and let him treat them as an angel would treat them; and let the wives and the children say amen to what he says, and be subject to his dictates, instead of their dictating the man, instead of their trying to govern him." (Original quote)

"Let the father be the head of the family, the master of his own household; and let him treat them [his family] as an angel would treat them" (manual)

[dfwsunking]

"Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. "

This was reiterated by your fearless leader Russell Nelson in a 1993 Ensign article.

[dfwsunking]

Carthage jail. Joseph Smith killed two men according to John Taylor: "pulling the six-shooter left by Brother Wheelock from his pocket, opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times; only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died." History of the Church

[dfwsunking]

Before the jailor came in, his boy brought in some water, and said the guard wanted some wine. Joseph gave Dr. Richards two dollars to give the guard; but the guard said one was enough, and would take no more. The guard immediately sent for a bottle of wine, pipes, and two small papers of tobacco; and one of the guards brought them into the jail soon after the jailor went out. Dr. Richards uncorked the bottle, and presented a glass to Joseph, who tasted, as brother and the Doctor,"

[dfwsunking]

Garment removal: "Smith removed his own endowment "robe" or garment before he went to Carthage Jail and told those with him to do likewise. His nephew Joseph F. Smith later explained, "When Willard Richards was solicited [by Smith] to do the same, he declined, and it seems little less than marvelous that he was preserved without so much as a bullet piercing his garments."" (Quinn page 146) Quinn references Heber J. Grant journal sheets, 7 June 1907, LDS Archives.

[dfwsunking]

Last one, the Masonic call of distress: "President Young said the people of the United States had sought our destruction and they had used every Exertion to perfect it. They have worked through the masonic institution to perfect it. Joseph & Hyrum Smith were Master Masons and they were put to death by masons or through there instigation and he gave the sign of distress & he was shot by masons while in the act." - Wilford Woodruff's Journal, August 19th, 1860, Volume 5

[marcopolo8765]

again your quoteing someone elses false allagations and not factual evidence. Some one who combines a little bit of truth to make it sound creditable with a huge amount of lies still makes it a lie. And cannot in any way shape or form be the work of God or anything good for that matter. can't you see for yourself the evil behind what it is you do. you know who else deals in secret combinations??? That right,, satan. It really doesnt take a very smart person to see threw you. So why?

[dfwsunking]

False allegations? I had no idea everyone I cited (John Taylor, Heber J. Grant, Russell M. Nelson or Wilford Woodruff's) gave statements that were false! Oh dear! They should no longer be called prophets and apostles! Excommunicate them all! Someone needs to call church headquarters pronto! Thanks marcopolo8765! They should assign you as Russell M. Nelson's replacement...

[dfwsunking]

Oh yeah, once you're appointed to the Apostleship, be sure to tell them to burn all issues of the Ensign, History of the Church, and Heber J. Grant and Wilford Woodruff's journals too as they're obvious heresy! Thanks again!

[marcopolo8765]

wow. I really dont think were on the same page here but what ever floats your boat. Again, I could take one true statement from just about anybody combine it with some person beliefs add a few really juicy lies for flavor and wall la. You got yourself one big BULLCrap pie. Fun to look at but pretty hard to choke down. Its time you stop choking on it

[dfwsunking]

What lies are contained in the examples I cited and who gave them? Give me a single example! These are not quotes I made myself. They're statements made by your fearless church leaders. They're not lies, they're just not according to Boyd K. Packer "useful history" that Morgbot drones like yourself want to look at and consider.

I strongly suggest you wave the white flag here. Your lack of intelligence is painfully obvious to everyone here but you. Go back to coloring in the Children's Friend!

[marcopolo8765]

ill accept that last post as a sign of defeat and a resignation I suppose. Your true colors have shown themself and its got to be hard to continue with any creditableity at all from this point on. I love exposeing apostates for what they really are but the latter day saint in me also loves helping them get back into a relationship with Christ. Now that we have determind the core of the person. We can start to change what is evil inside the person. When would you like to begin?

[dfwsunking]

First of all, what makes you suppose that by showing the hypocrisy and intentional deceit of the church in whitewashing their past that I somehow don't have a relationship with Christ?

Secondly, I find it strange you also suppose that I'm the evil person when I didn't tell you a single lie in the info I gave. That would be your church who won't show JS using a hat and stone, firing a gun, being a polygamist/polyandrist or his ties to masonry. It even lies about polygamy not being "doctrinal".

[marcopolo8765]

What your still getting back up. After everything I have said. Stay down!!!! God has got some humbling for you to do. Don't miss out on the opportuntiy God is giving you right now. Your not evil just ego driven. It needs some reshapeing thats all. Into something God can use as a tool instead of just being a tool. And lets say that everything you say is true about the church. I don't know I wasn' t there. Many have written about it like they were. Does it make anything dif. I dont think so

[dfwsunking]

Stay down? You remind me of the knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail that has his arms and legs cut off. You haven't refuted anything I've said other than try to rationalize it with "I wasn't there."

Guess what? Emma, David Whitmer, Martin Harris were all there and said he used a stone and hat. No one disagrees! John Taylor was at Carthage, said JS shot and killed two people. Said that JS drank the night before. No one there disagrees!

Still, to you this is somehow all invalid. Nice!

[marcopolo8765]

i choose not to respond to such inaccurate falsities they are not worth my time disputing. To think that God needs my help defending his church. Come on man. Not even my ego is that big.But If I can be of any service to this man today it is not going to be in convincing him of accusations. it will be in getting him to realize what and why he does it. And when that core issue is finally address. Ill be here if you want someone to talk to about it.

[dfwsunking]

"I don't need to respond to such inaccurate falsities like the earth revolving around the sun as they are not worth my time disputing. To think that God needs my help defending his church..."

Archbishop in the Catholic church during the time of Galileo and Copernicus.

If they are falsities then the people who stated them (leaders of the church) lied.

If they are in fact true, then the current leaders of the church are lying about what really happened.

You can't have it both ways.

[marcopolo8765]

Brother, have it anyway you would like it. The church continues to grow, we continue to follow Christ, we continue to help and give aid to the world, We continue to be saints. No one can stop the will of Christ. satan has tried for thousands of years to disprove Chirst. He has humbly bowed out of every fight or agruement that satan has ever tried to get him into. Weak, pathic, I think one person called me. I know someone else that people considered weak and pathitic when they nailed him toacross

[ExmormonFoundation]

You can't really debate dear Marco, he lives in another world where facts, morality and ethics are all relative and useless if they show Mormonism to be a fraud or absurd. In his mind he has won his spiritual Pyrrhic victory by declaring that Mormonism is true while sticking his tongue out to those who demand he back up his claims beyond the human universal of the warm fuzzy of his Mormon testimony. For him the flood was real, Kolob really is the source of light for the sun & Smith was pure.

[FancyLogic]

You seem completely ignorant of your own church's history. Why don't you check with some BYU or Institute teachers or some leaders in the church.

As it is, marcopolo, you just sound completely arrogantly ignorant. I feel really bad for you to live in this delusion.

[5avan10]

dfwsunking, I love that knight!

'Tis but a flesh wound! Come back and fight!

Fight? What are you going to do, bleed all over me?

It's funny in the movie, but in real life it's just sad...

Marco, just give the pat answer (you just have to have faith, then all the contrary evidence in the world won't matter and besides God's ways are mysterious and it's not for us to know anyway) and then go stick your head back in the Kool-Aid bowl and keep drinking.

[AntiCitizenX]

Marco, the guy gave you direct quotes from legitimate LDS sources, and all you have to say is "lies, all lies!" If the quotes are taken out of context, then please explain how this was done. If the quotes are just wrong, then explain how. But arbitrarily declaring victory over the guy's "false allegations" when he has given you actual references to back up his claims is just weak and pathetic.

[FancyLogic]

"sign of defeat"?

What?

He presents clear evidence. You can't refute it. He asks you if you can refute it. You cannot. But you claim that is a sign of *his* defeat?

What planet do you live on?

[marcopolo8765]

Did Jesus refute any of the claims made against him right before they nailed him to the cross? Exactly. Now I am not Christ and i will never will be anything even close. But I will do my best to try and serve him and my fellow man by not ingageing in contentious behavior and do my best to share with my brother and sisters what I have to offer them. Which just may be my time and an opinion. Im not sure what else I am allowed to do on the internet.

[Psylliumhead]

No doubt he married the little girl after he pulled her out of the mud.

[IAmDarylZoom]

This is one of the best video I have seen thus far (on youtube) about the cover-ups, half-truths and out right lies of Mormonism. I know, I was one for 25 years. Thank you for your work!

[Theshukun3600]

it would be even scarier if those pageant costumed freaks chased people around wih chainsaws aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[Theshukun3600]

this whole cult involving mgagic talismans and seer stones thing is some scary shiznit

[muskies011]

that pageant is not near as good as the city of joseph.

[hanslute]

Absolutely true!! the new pageant can't hold a candle to the city of joseph pageant. The LDS church really screwed up taking away a pageant that had an appeal that far exceeded just something for LDS church members.

[guitarfreak2700]

Please don't talk down about my religion. I am LDS and they did not mess it up. Oh and PS my dad is a lead in the new pageant, and that really hurt me.

[guitarfreak2700]

I am sorry, but you are so wrong. I have been involved in the Nauvoo Pageant for 4 years (the whole time) and you don't know what you are talking about. I saw keep your dirty opinions to yourself! The New pageant Changes people for life.

[muskies011]

i have been going to the original pageant for 12 years and my father has been going to it since the first year it was put on in the visitors center. the original was so much better, better attendance better all around performance. when they put on the original you could hear the words they said in the park. you cant even hear the new one and its way closer. the old one had better music and all around entertainment and enjoyment. including fireworks. it was way better. ps im LDS to.

[rigbys5]

It bows my mind that there are ministries that go to bother our people,taunt our people,have meetings in your churches on how to stop us, and even go to our historical sites. Don't you have something better to do. Don't you want to focus on your own church? Don't waste the time you have on this earth dissing churches

[DuctTapeMyFace]

Didnt Jesus tell you to become fishers of men? You think publicly and continually tearing up somebodys democratic protestations acceptable? This is exactly the shady attitude that particularly sickens me about mormons. People such as yourself love the democratic process - until it kicks them up the arse.

[DaltonRogers]

Expose the False doctrine of mormonism

[johnPhilos]

I wonder if the mormons ever made reparations.

[nauvoochristian]

You are joking, right? Ask the descendants of the "Mountain Meadows Massacre" which was America's first 9/11...September 11, 1857. The Mormon Priesthood murdered 120 unarmed men, women, and children over the age of 7 in cold blood!

[nauvoochristian]

The comment "You are joking, right?" was directed to johnPhilos about reparations...

[MWayneW]

I hope it all right to disagree with your logic. The Mountain Meadows Massacre was a tragic event by any standards but to accuse all Mormons equates to saying all Marines are terrible because one threw a defensive puppy over a cliff. Yes, it was terrible but was caused by persons who acted out of their faith. Your comments reeks of hatred towards the Mormons. Not very Christian from my perspective.

[MWayneW]

To continue: As a member of the LDS faith, the 'facts' as you are trying to present are not foreign to me. But I see them in an entirely different like. Without meaning to do so, your delivery comes off filled more with hatred than 'factual'. This is America and we both have the freedom to believe as we wish. I hope you find peace one day but not at the expense of the "Mormons".

[blacklungsjoe]

Mormons never allow free speech. Only when the media is watching them do they allow some limited free speech

[aaronshaf2006]

vintageyellow71, until you stop rejecting Isaiah 43:10, you are an idolater. Revelation 21:8 says, "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

[vintageyellow71]

I say that because I could understand your anger if you had a catholic priest hurt you. But what did a Mormon ever do to you to cause you to have so much venom. Think about it chief.

[vintageyellow71]

I say that because I could understand your anger if you had a catholic priest hurt you. But what did a Mormon ever do to you to cause you to have so much venom. Think about it chief.

[aaronshaf2006]

vintageyellow, if Mormonism was a cult leading people to hell, what would you do about it? Just sit back and not care? That's not very loving. Neither would it show a concern for truth.

[vintageyellow71]

Where you all go wrong is that you feel you need to thrash anothers religion to make that point. what sort of a way to spread your point is that? Isn't is a 100% judgment to say mormons are going to hell? What vission or revelaation did you have that taught you that? I believe in Christ and so do you, that being said we are saved anyway right? Yes

[vintageyellow71]

Who are you or anyone to challenge my relationship with Christ besides myself and Him Himself? I could go for ever quoting scriptures all day but it doesn't mater. I have a Savior in Jesus Christ and no other savior but Jesus Christ himself. So what does it mater to you beyond that? None

[aaronshaf2006]

Anyone who isn't willing to wholly condemn the idea that God the Father could have once possibly been a sinner is going to hell. Anyone who rejects the immediate and complete forgiveness of sins, offered to be received by faith alone, is going to hell. See Isaiah 43:10, Psalm 90:2, and Romans 4:4-8.

[vintageyellow71]

Sorry, I know you like that one but you just don't have a right to condemn me to anywhere. I believe in Christ an the only way, beyond that I can beleive anything I want and be fine. That flies right inthe face of what your trying to but you don't want to let people beleive what they want.

[vintageyellow71]

beyond that, I know by the spirit of God that what I know is right and it has been personaly testified to me by the spirit. You have no controle over how or whom God teaches these things. You can't take that away from me or any Mormon either. Your in a fight you can not win.

[deconomou]

That is the most arrogant, ignorant, obsurd statement I've ever heard. Look at the evidence pal. You want to refute DNA, linguistic, archeological and historical evidence with a feeling in your heart? I feel sorry for you.

[vintageyellow71]

your a joke, say what you want. I'm right. I know the mormon church is right. Your style of anti conversion is the worst I've ever seen. Sorry your so into being so arrogant yourself. I'm happy letting you have your church. The fact that you can't let me enjoy mine showes how little you are in the world. I'll pray for you. By the way, the feelings of the spirirt are what? You ignore the sirit. Thats unGodly

[deconomou]

I'm the arrogant one? At least I can back up my arguements with tangible evidence. You just say "I'm right" and go on your way. No one takes people like you seriously.

And I'm not attacking your church, your church attacked us first by calling us "abominations to God" and "Whores of Babylon". At least I don't follow the teachings of a womanizing, lying, plagarizing pervert who looks into magic stones and crystal balls.

[nauvoochristian]

Your eternity is not a joke. The Word of God is not a joke. One day you will account for seeing and hearing truth and choosing to reject it. Look into the doctrines of the Mormon church, you are trusting your eternity to something you cannot known, unless you study it out. Please do this before it is too late; feelings can and do mislead people.

[guitarfreak2700]

I totally agree! Keep it up :)!

[johnPhilos]

Your kooky beliefs aren't worthy of respect, and deserve to be mocked.

[ilgbf]

Fuck religion, it's a worldwide cult. All religions stem from the same pile of shit. Luckily, I was never molested by Mormons like some poor slobs. Funny how the church has no more male Primary teachers and if so, has to have the wife present.

[aaronshaf2006]

Wow, associating criticism of Mormonism with terrorism? Mormons don't seem too far off from someday supporting legislation to ban criticism of Mormonism as violence-associated "hate speech". Let's enjoy our constitutional rights while we can...

[vintageyellow71]

igazzini & ilgbf, Dude, did some person in the church molest you in the middle of the night or something. You have a lot of hate to talk to me or anyone like that. That's not the way to carry out a conversation. Nothing I wrote was paranoid and you know that. Your making things up and you hate for some reason. Maybe look inside yourself and come to grips with who you are and leave religion out of it.

[omiolo]

The minister in this video loves his half-truths, innuendos, and taking things out of context. If you believe him you believe what al quaeda says about the United States.

[ichbinarbeiten]

I am sick of people downgrading the one and only true religion on the face of the earth. You people do not have the restored gospel and you are jealous that we have the light of god shining in our soul. Joseph never did anything wrong. he was a prophet of god. You people make stuff up and put it online. Too bad you don't have the TRUE gospel. Listen to the missionaries as they will tell you about the TRUE gospel.

[BigLon]

Good, truthful video.

Bill McKeever always tells it like it is.

Next time they hand out flyers or booklets, they should warn the people that there are people ahead of them, that will try to take the material away from them, to keep them from learning more of the story.

I wish I had read that stuff years ago, but at least I did learn the truth, and got out of mormonism.

[vintageyellow71]

Why don't you guys give it a rest. Let us worship our faith as we let you live yours without us trying to take you down.

[lgazzini]

Just who here is preventing you from worshiping your faith? That is a very paranoid statement. Mormons blast all Christians when they share one of the several 'first visions.' In America, people on both sides can present their case.

[ilgbf]

Why don't YOU guys give the WORLD a rest. I was a Mormon missionary once. Makes me sick to think I hounded and hounded people in their homes and on the streets, bugging them about the fucking Mormon Utah-based financial fraud cult.

[deconomou]

The first 2 minutes makes me sick when I see how the Mormon church depicts Smith as a non-cursing, delightful individual when history shows a completely different story.