Michael Gove on restoring trust in our exam system

[homiezrgr8]

Maybe you ought to shut the fuck up toff

[MrJazzaman1]

WHAT A FUCKING LITTLE PRICK! THIS BASTARD WOULD HAVE BEEN THE TEACHERS PET AT SCHOOL!! A HORRIBLE LITTLE TORY SHIT!! WANKING THE PREFECTS COCKS OFF BEHIND THE CRICKET SHEDS!

[homiezrgr8]

@MrJazzaman1 LOLOL

[SirOneoneselfandone]

PLEASE bring back grammar schools!

[Equillus]

What on earth is this fresh-faced prep doing as our school's secretary?

[computerrage]

For fuck's sake STOP BLINKING (People might think you're lying)

[Abdikareem0]

@computerrage people are blinking all the time, you dumb idiot, or else we would have dry eyes.

[computerrage]

@Abdikareem0 Not as much as this pompous twat. (sorry if you're related!)

[tescocadaver]

There is no beauty in this mans life.

[thedavewalkershow]

a friend of mine teaching in one of our universitys tells me exams are now dumb down to a point where even some doctorates are not worth the paper there written on.just more of labours low standards to no standards.

[computerrage]

@thedavewalkershow That friend of yours should teach you some basic spelling and grammar

[starystaryknight]

Another Tory clone-promising God knows what?

S'pose he'll stop the kids school milk as well- Thatcher did in the 70's.

Take a good look at this man--what a poor choice for Education Secretary.

Think on this-here we are now in 2009 living with the failed "education policies" of succesive Tory governments in the 80s & 90s.

But I suppose if they tell the people the "lie" often enough they will believe it.

Another Tory in charge of families-God help us!

[inkstersco]

>here we are now in 2009 living with the failed "education policies" of succesive Tory governments in the 80s & 90s.

Hardly. After 12 years, wherever we are now is where Labour put us.

[jamespetts2]

That's a very sensible idea indeed - temporal moderation.

[starystaryknight]

ah so-Mr gagothesith-you are here as well.

Cuckoo.

Think you had better go look at the monkeys up in the zoo-lol!

[Bacalod]

I wonder how many said microscope, a woolly hat and a battered sausage?

[gagothesith]

Without seeking to defend the sad state of the "exams" system, it is a fact that Japan--widely believed to be superior both in education and economic growth--has a similar, if not worse, educational system.

Subjects/lessons/exams fall into two kinds:

(A) what everyone already knows without need to learn them in school, and

(B) what everyone is taught to master in school *for the purpose of passing exams* but *without need to understand what it is or what it is for*.

. . .

[gagothesith]

I have a friend who went to a top Japanese national university--he was both bewildered and furious to find that

1 Japanese students who have studied Calculus for several years--able to prove any mathematical theorem and equation, able to twist and turn and examine from any angle the most complicated equations--were stumped when asked what the subject's practical applications are, and were amazed when told that Calculus is actually used for computing this and that.

. . .

[gagothesith]

2 every Japanese student who has been to university would have studied "English" for at least eight years, but nobody can construct a coherent simple sentence nor understand a non-Japanese saying something or asking a question in the language.

. . .

[gagothesith]

And

3 Noboru Takeshita, who could not speak English nor understand it, was actually a UNIVERSITY LECTURER ON THE SUBJECT before entering politics--he told the story in Japanese before the Foreign Correspondents' Club "to break the ice" before starting a press conference ... ending with, "Ret's iyah-hone" (he meant, "Let us now put on our earphones.")

Perhaps it is not necessary to be competent in school or have meaningful exams in order to advance as a country. :-p

[gagothesith]

(PS: Noboru Takeshita was PM from 1987 to 1989--the height of Japanese economic growth.)

[YuuhT]

Okay - As someone studying Japan I can answer this! ^_^

Written communication in english by the Japanese is a majourity of the time extreamly better than us english folk. But unfortuantly their education system in schools doesn't fair well with spoken communication. To help againt this the embassies have been getting more and more ALTs from England to fo and help out in Japan and the current generations of High school students in Japan should see a much more improved spoken english...I hope.

[gagothesith]

As someone whose university degree is from a Japanese university and who is fluent in written and spoken Japanese, please allow me to correct a few errors:

1 No, most Japanese cannot read even the most simple sentences, much less construct a coherent one.

2 ALTs are much better than nothing and certainly better than Japanese teachers who teach English but fall under #1 above.

. . .

[gagothesith]

3 English language teaching in Japan is a short-term job, not long-term enough to be considered a career--the length of your visas and your contracts with the respective public schools/private language schools prove this.

4 Even the Japanese are no better than someone whose first language is English but spells words the following way: "majourity", "extreamly", "unfortuantly", "fair well" ...

. . .

[gagothesith]

5 If the British, Canadians and American ALTs are no better than #4 above, then no, the current generations [sic] of High school [sic] students in Japan will not see a much more improved [sic] spoken English.

[YuuhT]

As this is an area I am considering for a future career, teaching English in Japan.

[LiesLikeKnives]

Labour and Tory: Two sides of the same coin.

A vote for them (and the Lib Dems) is a vote for facism.

There will be no change. The plan to destroy communities and erode our human rights will continue.

These are the terrorists you should fear.

[theredraven]

While I applaud Mr Gove wanting to improve the exam system, what about those of us who have just finished college or school or university? Will we become a lost generation who's exam results don't matter and don't count for anything anymore? I hope he he avoids causing that.

[ProudBrit07]

Michael Gove is better spoken than any slack-jawed yokel from some English council estate (or Scottish estate for that matter).

Tell me this, why is it you turn the debate to personal issues when there are perfectly good, and obviously very important issues such as childrens education, to discuss?

All - rolandsausage is a living example of how poor education under Labour can be, and why we should resolve it. Ignorance in strength, and it is ignorance and keeps people bound to labour.

[j94c]

@ProudBrit07 learn to reply to a comment fucktard

[TheRacketBoss]

@ProudBrit07 So you value him more because he is well spoken then on his opinions, shows how retarded your views must be, and i vote labour because i have a moral obligation. The tories are all about business, no morality, they dont care who they tread on or who gets hurt as long as it isnt themselves.

[rolandsausage]

We all know tories are odious vermin but Scottish tories, trying to disguise their accent are even lower than your average garden slug.

[ProudBrit07]

Levels of attainment, particularly by children not from well-off backgrounds, in the professional exams are lower. As professional bodies set their own exams, they are free from political interference and accordingly shall not be dumbed-down.

Young people are lesser prepared for these exams because of the poor education and examination system Labour have given us over the past 12 years.

[ProudBrit07]

Private schools are opting out of A-levels and Highers (in Scotland) in favour of alternatives, such as the International Baccalaureate, because they are more respected by employers. Everyone knows, apart from the liberal establishment and the current Government that the system is being dumbed down.

The stats are getting better, but children are less prepared for the challenges in the world of work. We arent doing people any favours with the all must have prizes attitude.

[kiteman43]

To comment on my own recent post: modern exams are only easy to fail by highly intelligent students who 'think outside the box'. The mediocre do really well in them, and gain A's or A*'s. I remember a line from a stand-up comedian long ago. "We don't need grammar now. We've got comprehensive English." The state has been cultivating mediocrity for at least a generation now, under governments of both political hues.

That is why the future lies with the Indians, the Chinese, and the Koreans.

[kiteman43]

The intelligent answer to the question, "Which reflects light better, a woolly hat or a CD," is, "It all depends on what you mean by better." Unfortunately, intelligent answers of this sort are exactly those which score 'null points' in our dumbed down examination system. Many years go I had to take an examination described by one of my teachers as, 'easy to fail, and no credit to pass.' Unfortunately this is now true of most examinations at school level.

[fivebymiker]

Good point.

I'd have preferred the question itself to be rephrased: 'which is more reflective.....?' That said, the problem with this question is that the chances of getting the answer correct is 50/50. i.e. it is entirely possible for someone to get the 'correct' answer with no knowledge whatsoever.

[kiteman43]

The main difference between the woolly hat and the CD is that reflection from the woolly hat is diffuse, whilst the reflection from the CD is partly diffuse and partly specular. However, if the examiner did not wish to make that distinction he should have asked, 'which reflects more light.' 'Better' asks for a value judgement, and is inappropriate in a science exam. Precise use of language is, unfortunately not something taught in our schools, or even to our examiners.

[gagothesith]

Was it a SCIENCE exam, or an English LANGUAGE exam?

[kiteman43]

Precise use of language is just as important, perhaps even more important in Science than it is in English. The acceptance of sloppy language is part of the dumbing down of education which is degrading our culture and needs urgent attention.

[gagothesith]

Yes, yes, yes, Dear--precise use of language is important.

The fact remains that when it is a Maths exam, then the questions focus on mathematics ... when it is a Science exam, then the questions focus on ... Oh, Dear. Why does this even need to be explained.

[gagothesith]

Yes, British education is suffering from a "dumbing down"--educators who cannot even draft coherent and accurate exam questions and university graduates who complain about not finding employment or being underemployed while unable to speak their first language correctly while complaining. Yes, the problem needs urgent attention.

. . .

[gagothesith]

Nonetheless, the scale of the problem concerns people not knowing even the fundamentals; it does not concern the minute differences between "which diffuses light better" and "which diffuses more light".

[kiteman43]

Agreed, yet it's an unhappy affair that it's come to this, for all academic disciplines are an exercise of language, of discourse. Even the symbolic expression of mathematics is a form of language. In my day, at least at A level, one was expected to properly punctuate one's mathematics, with commas, semi-colons and full-stops in the right places. It is sad if these disciplines have been lost, unless one is submitting material for publication.

[gagothesith]

Indeed. These are the days when the excuse is

> " This is the internet--I don't have to know

> spelling and punctuation blah-de-blah. "

And yet the reality is that they are no better when talking or writing offline--yes, even when submitting material for publication.

If they are incompetent in the only language they know, that is akin to having English as a second language, but having no first. And the youth are incompetent because educators and parents are incompetent to begin with.

[harryb1231]

I only wish Michael Gove had been Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families when I was doing my GCSEs!

The OCR/AQA/EdExcel websites are an absolute nightmare for any student. Any MP please feel free to contact me about the vast number of comments I have about the current education system. To give a taster, how can you justify, in a GCSE Biology exam, the difference between 100% (an A* grade) and 90% (an A grade) as 34/45 and 35/45. Furthermore... run out of space!!! PLEASE contact m

[oneilljgf]

This would have been better if the sound was synchronised with the video.

Jim

[jennjennisjennjenn]

I am fed up of the older generation classing GCSE's and A levels as 'too easy'. This is absurd! Recently i looked at past questions for geogrpahy as level and could easily answer them, however, this year i went into my exam and found it incredibly difficult! Exams are getting harder and i'm sure that if the older generation were to take a new exam paper they were fail. These questions mentioned are a much lower level that gcse's - they are for 10 year olds!

[computersolutions164]

Conservatives will definately transparent alright, you will be able to see right through them, but they will, like their pre-decessors serve their master i.e The Rothschilds, just like they have done so for centuries and move ever closer to the faschist superstate they want. The E.U is part of it - next stop world governement

Nathaniel Rothschild said in 1729 "Give me control of a nations wealth and I care not who writes the laws" - FACT !!

[computersolutions164]

I've said it for years

'O' and 'A' Levels are far better than any shitty GCSE Lets go back to those, they made you use your brains and your memory,

CD or Woolly Hat, It really does beggar belief. interesting to think that in India you can still take an 'O Level' strange they seem to have all our jobs too, certainly our I.T ones. maybe i'm just too cynical or this is a dastardly plot by the shadow Government to dumb us all down, so we won't possibly fathom out what they are up to !!!

[AJPGTV]

[continued]

You would hope though that it could be more "rigorously" scientific (as its aimed at 11 year olds) and this would be beneficial for encouraging a more logical and through thinking in all our future members of society whether or not they subsequently become scientists.

Impossible request but could you try to include in the database (which is an Excellent idea) the tests imposed on our undergraduate as well?

p.s. depends on the colour and which side of the CD and the colour of hat.

[AJPGTV]

"'Which is healthier: Grilled fish, or a battered sausage?' Now these aren't really rigorous questions which are preparing people for a future in science."

No they're not.

I agree strongly with most of what Mr Gove has to say but teachers only really have enough time to teach students what could subsequently be tested in exams. If you remove this question then you remove the reason/incentive/excuse to teach students about how healthy different food stuffs are and the reasons why. [continued]

[fungbenjaminuk]

I fully support Home Education. Just as the Shadow Secretary said, we should recast 100 years of exam papers - why should not we go back 100 years in time and rebuild Victorian schools and employ governesses again? Scientists, as emphasized, were more rigorous at the time!

[hotspur1964]

Just a quick thought.......does anyone think that If Gordon The Moron was sent back to school he would pass a Maths GCSE, because clearly he needs help in this area, as his End of Term report will show next June.

[23bethan]

I would like to commend Home Education.

My daughter, 18, home educated since 2002, has just finished writing her 5th novel and, as well as getting standard exams (taken as an external candidate at schools and colleges) she has just taken her Diploma in Music Theatre Performance - equivalent to First Year Exams at University - (and was marked 95%!), saved somebody's life through her First Aid knowledge and prompt action, is interested in many things, and best of all, is interesting to talk to!

[23bethan]

A teacher told me she had to

* ignore all children who would get the average grade [they didn't need help].

* ignore really bright pupils [who'd get a good mark anyway]

* ignore anyone 'beyond help'.

4) concentrate on those who might, with enough tutoring, get an 'average' mark,.

This was the sole standard by which the school was judged by the Council, the government, and by parents.

So she did 'nothing worthwhile' (her stated view) with the other 26 the whole SAT 2 year.

Ridiculous!

[Cookisdwewe]

This is ridiculous!

These are the types of questions that kids come out of exam rooms laughing about, and it makes them lose faith in their education -- they lose faith in the intelligence of their teachers, and so they become lazy and bored. The whole PC, left-wing system needed to be pulled back. We NEED to draw the line somewhere!

Obama is fighting to bring education in the USA up, and it seems the Labor party in the UK are fighting to bring it down!

[usernameofnobody]

None of those questions were science questions. They were questions designed for nanny state progamming.

[kalaspera12]

todays parents have a fixaton that their children should go to university thechild agrees because work is a bad subject most just want to laze about for a few years while parents pay or benifits ensue.its time for a lot of parents to realise university is for the clever kids of our society these exceptional kids should have every oportunity without cost ,dumbing down exams so everyone can get to uni is just plain stupid ,kids need to get work .

[Cookisdwewe]

Drop out rates at some of my friends University's in Britain are staggering! From what I can gather, there is a generation of not too bright kids who are breezing through High school and then going to University to have a " student lifestyle" ( e.g, don't work, party and binge drink\ do drugs) and they ruin their Uni's credibility by failing their exams and dropping out. Very sad.

[hotspur1964]

Unfortunately the Education system is all the poorer for this Governments obsession with PC (right on) teaching. All they are interested in is lefty teachers programming the Labour voters of the future. Course work should be taken out of the system the internet makes it too easy to cheat. Bring back O'levels at least my generation knew we would fail if we didn't put in the work. With all these kids getting A*s it begs the question are kids really brighter now than the 70s and 80s..I think not!!

[draconianlife]

I've just sat my A-level exams and am getting my results on the 20th of this month. I've looked at questions that lower school (years 8 to 11 [aged 13 to 16]) are given in their exams, and I am unable to understand how what they are being asked is anywhere near what I was asked only a matter of 2 to 5 years ago. The questions being set (and therefore taught around) are putting people into a position where they aren't able to cope with A-levels, let alone university degrees.

[fungbenjaminuk]

I agree that making past exams transparent are important and beneficial, but to what extent is it true that the circumstances and the importance of exams 100 years ago the same as today? Does the Conservative Party suggest that society has not changed over the past 100 years?

[fungbenjaminuk]

I think that education should not be just about exams - for which we are sometimes too focused on curriculums and working far too hard to actually absorb what we are force-fed. It is application that counts. These are subjects that we may not even be interested - who wants a future in Science if I am only interested in Literature? And how do you discriminate which are the more rigorous subjects?

[UhClaire]

And another thing is,

Kids aren't being taught to have common sense or to analyse information, instead they are just being taught facts.

They aren't thinking for themselves.

This is probably why children aren't doing well in exams, regardless of the difficulty.

They get asked "which reflects light better, a woolly hat or a CD?" and they panic, and instead of thinking about the situation, they think "we haven't learnt about woolly hats reflecting light! I don't know!"

[Cookisdwewe]

Yes, and if I got that question in an exam, I'd probably answer " Woolly hat" because I would just think, " This question is so stupid, it's got to be a trick! Woolly hat must be the answer!"

But seriously, this is a very sad state of affairs. We shouldn't be pandering to the lowest levels in society. We should be telling kids in school, " THIS is what is expected of you, so you better work hard" and then give them support so they can reach that level. End of story.

[UhClaire]

Children's level of knowledge is going down along with the difficulty of exams,

So you can't expect everyone to pass on an easier paper.

Making a test paper easier doesn't have much effect. People at my school find the new papers harder than the papers written in 1998. I don't know why, but it's true.

[insomnia320]

live in a shack with your kids and send them to private school, my grandson has a vocabulary of a ten year old, reading as well as talking, and he is 5. The Three year old speaks French and writes all our names. They have no place in a state school, unless we want to kill their lives so yes, gloat gloat, I donlt have munny, my kids don;t have munny, but the kids have fucking brains

[Kazayami]

Exams are getting stupidly easy. Something needs to be done. I don't know whether this is is, but something has to be done. The exams have to start focusing on knowledge, not exam technique. They need to test what students know and have learnt, and not how well they answer the questions.

At the moment schooling is becoming increasingly 'just for exams'. Why don't we teach people something they can use in their life, and test as a second priority, not the other way around.

[Cookisdwewe]

Well said.

I graduated from highschool a few years ago, and I remember asking about symbolism in a specific area of a book and being told by my English teacher, " That's not important, just revise the book in general for the exam."

And of course as soon as exams are over, most kids just drop everything they learned " for the exam", and that's basically everything they learned in school!

[muckletoon]

Gove is a piece of slime what with those lies he has told about 7/7.

[shall22]

I think you're thinking of someone else

[JonHarvey58]

Please can we have an online (and searchable) store of manifesto pledges too?

[Jonatron101]

As Slappymann says, the SQA does provide Past Papers, although the vast majority of these must be purchased from a third party.

Looking at the papers, the only differences are that papers have adopted patterns from earlier papers and become more fair in their questions. The familiarity of layout is a comfort in an exam. I only have experience of the scottish system, however.

[slappymannn]

The SQA already has this online past paper system in place, so shouldn't the AQA have something similar?

[OverTheGun]

what a shocker, exam results were down, so what was Labour's ideal solution?

make the exams so that someone half the target age for that exam could pass.

I highly suspect if there'd been no government at all during Labour's reign, or if we had to, elect a talking paperclip, we'd be better off now.

"it seems you're trying to run a government, would you like some help?"

[kingmajin]

OTG with his intelligence hacks! love what you said about the paperclip.

[TakeItOfffff]

Ha.. i had a key skills test at college a couple of months ago.. no joke these were a few of the questions. Q1. What colour is the sky most likely to be at 11.30pm a.pink b.black c.green Q2. What is the capital of France. a.london b.paris c.denmark Q3. Whitch of these animals is most likely to be in an aquarium. a.Tiger b.Shark c.Elephant I actually walked out of the exam and told the examiner to go fuck herself.

[gagothesith]

It is time to publish the names of the very people who decide on the exam questions.

[garpstube]

Well that sums this Government up, well put.

[Einy7]

Very good idea!

People fail to realise that the fact that exam results increased every year did not mean children were on target. It might of been the exams got easier each year. This idea will tell us for sure.