Ok, from 5th grade I've had this kind of way of learning and it ONLY works if everyone wants to learn, it does improve learning but also makes it possible to do nothing at all. The work of a group is always the average of their work, ergo if one does nothing, the others are forced to work harder.
My opinion is that this does NOT work until children gets into their late teens OR when the class has a very specific type of education.
(part two) No matter how shallow and stupid it is, social status and friends in the group WILL come into play on who has the "best" idea. 3) People will automaticly be draw to the assembly line method, each researching one thing without learning everything about the topic. 4) It's important that we get experiance, but teachers today spend about one week per topic/unit. There's not enough time to work in these projects. 5) its more productive to do projets with 1-2 people who will EACH understand
As a kid who is actually in high school with a few teachers who do this stuff, I actually rather have the memorization. Here are some of the issues I've experianced with group projects. 1) It's in a teen's nature to procrastinate. If we have groups, those who don't procrastinate will end up doing all the work, otherwise everyone will procrastinate and not do the amount of research and colaboration the teacher wanted. 2) No matter how great an idea is, majority vote comes into play. (cont part 2)
I find it weird that alot of people are complaining that it will ruin my grades, it won't work well with a bad group or even "i'll carry the entire group on my back". Actually, how is that bad? Grades based on tests are a big flop, because you simply don't study and go take tests when WORKING in real life. You have a problem/project and you work your way through it. What about bad groups? You think you will only work with people you like in real life? And the same thing applies for "carriers".
While it's true that groups will not always function correctly, it's vital for kids to do this kind of work because in the real world, they may be assigned into a dysfunctional group. It's important for kids to learn to adapt. And even if the group is dysfunctional on occasion, does that mean memorization and regurgitation of information is a better way to learn? At least with project-based learning the kids participating are more likely to remember the information.
This works well if all the students are equally motivated. Sadly, most of the time they aren't. This system looks good on paper, but it doesn't exactly work out as perfect as they say it does.
project based learning only works if the group functions. that might not always be the case.... besides the focus should also be on solving the issues with group dynamics. Project based learning isn't a miracle, it is an effective tool when used correctly. the last part there is VERY important. It isn't enough to just say... group up.
First, This video lacks how this PBL can be applied in a large scale state-funded system of education.
The problems with education is not the type of learning that is done in classrooms but the application of it in a large scale state-funded system of education.
PBL requires a degree of freedom which state-funded education lacks.
Second, How will students be evaluated in PBL? The definition of success and failure becomes more subjective. Evaluation through testing is less bias than PBL.
I go to a new tech school which is project based learning and we all haves macs but NOOO ONE LIKES It! It sucks like really bad lol the idea of project based learning is good but it just doesn't work. LIke MrZeck98 said not everyone works at the same pace and i hate carrying my group because it causes a lot of stress and gives them an easy A. I also find myself distracted by things in the project rather than actually focusing on learning the material we are making a project about... Sucks!
The really big problem about this is; Not everyone are able to work in groups, either because they just don't like working with others, or because of social problems.
This doesn't work. It's a good theory, but most of the students I know don't split the work equally and it ends up being pushed onto one person, even if they report it to the teacher as "everyone did their fair share."
This doesn't work well in school because people don't work at the same level, I end up doing more work but over all I do less because I can't pull an entire group.
@MrZeck98 That doesn't mean this doesn't work. Individuals pulling down the group is something that can be worked on, not a reason to deem this idea bad.
This is a terrible idea, especially as someone who doesn't fair well with projects. (Do them early, they don't come out well based on the creativity level they want, plenty of info) This would ruin my good grades. I don't pick up well messing with a piece of poster board, I do best reading and noting things in my own head.
Unless every children does the projects that every other child is doing they are only learning an extremely narrow part of their curriculum. They'll probably have a very thorough understanding of the topic they researched and then be equally unresponsive to their classments as they are to their teacher.
Project Based Learning is a great tool to use but is a very poor way to teach material en masse.
I'm interested in how they get students to participate. How do they motivate those that think everything is boring and lame? How do they get loners to work well with groups? How do they deal with students who game the system?
@iwasfrancisd I'm a student, The thing that gets student like me motivated is the fact that you make the topic of your project interesting, not make it seem like something we should be extremely excited about (not overdoing it), and allow humor.
So how can we do this with math? I hated all of my high school math classes because my teachers failed explain how I will ever use factoring a trinomial, or knowing how to calculate with imaginary numbers will ever com in handy in my adult life; therefor I never understood why I should pay attention and break my back just to learn these inconsequential calculus equations.
@beccalincecum Because of mathe there is cars. Because of math we know earth is not flat. Because of math, we can build houses. It is your human duty to learn math. It is your duty as part of society to know math. Only thing that seperates us from animals is our intelect. Math is highest level of intelect, since with math you cant do pretty much everything. If you dont like math, you dont deserve to be part of society and therefore death
@TheBallKeeper Despite the couple of your expressed ideas that hold merit, your delivery is littered with biased and on the whole deeply ignorant. To say the least If you were clever you'd realize that if you want to influence someone's thinking, you don't insult them.
Take a look at sports. Why would people run for miles, lift weights for hours, risk injuries, and perform repetitive motions day after day? I think athletes do those things because there are some very basic human desires that are fulfilled by sports.
I think one way to make math more human is to focus proving something. Look at that story about Archimedes and The Golden Crown. He was so happy that he ran naked in public screaming "Eureka!"
PBL is a good concept with the right teachers. Unfortunately, I had a horrible experience with PBL senior year of hs. Teachers would give us a project without a clear direction to let us be creative in our projects, but without a rubric we were all graded unfairly. At the end of each project we all (my entire senior class ~300kids) failed every project, because the teachers expected "more", and wouldn't tell us what they wanted until after we already failed...
Teachers tend to teach as they were taught and as they learn best. If the goal is for teachers to utilize PBL more often teachers need to experience the process of PBL for themselves. Possibly professional development where the teachers are expected to redisign curriculum or write a end of year assessment for their subject. It isn't that traditional teaching doesn't work, it's just that there are ways to mix it up in the classroom and keep the learning interesting.
Getting students involved is a great idea and does work--but when do we teach them that sometimes life is boring? Sometimes sitting and listening and forcing oneself to be interested is a more valuable lesson than having fun.
And I didn't see any evidence that the students actually learned or retained more through the project.
Who taught simmons? We act like somehow school doesn't work...but if it didn't work at all, then how did we get the people who can come up with things like PBL?
A similar "degrading" of a great idea is the science fair projects. How many projects have you seen where the student unwittingly was masquerading a product comparison ("Which toothpaste will brighten the most?") as the scientific process, and using a bogus process at that ("I brushed pennies with each toothpaste and found that...") Do pennies really work like teeth?!? Were the pennies subjected to the same conditions as a human mouth? "I think Crest will win" is NOT a hypothesis, it is a guess.
PBL is great in concept, but so hard to do in practice. For example, Clare's project involved real critical thinking - finding a balance between conflicting demands (had a budget, Time/Cost/Quality). The "flu" example did not, it was just a research project that was presented to others. No critical thinking took place. This can quickly devolve into "make work" when the emphasis turns on to the presentation, and kids (and parents!) spend most time on making pretty boards, displays, etc.
I taught using PBL for many years, and I now help teachers learn to do the same. There is nothing like it for building skills, confidence, and facilitating true deep learning that lasts. My oldest students are now almost 30 and they continue to amaze me. I'm about to blog about it if you want to read more about technology related to PBL.
For some subjects this can work, but, I'm sorry, the BASICS still need to be taught, and PBL cannot teach them this. For example, I teach high school social studies. Most of my students have had PBL since elementary. By the time the students got to my classes, they knew how to make a great project, but DID NOT know the 50 states and their locations, DID NOT know the difference between Washington DC and Washington state, etc... This is due to PBL.
@Rugby80 The basics are ignored, and the previous are just examples from social studies. I, personally, graduated from a high school that had PBL back in the 90's. Although I was a good student, when I went to college I had to RELEARN EVERYTHING! I went to (supposedly) one of the best public schools in the country, and I was not prepared for a taste of the real world. A lot of this was due to PBL training students to do a GREAT diorama, but not knowing how to properly read, write,
@Rugby80 due basic math without the use of calculators, etc. If we have generation after generation of students being taught how to do projects, but they do not retain the information for long-term use, it can have major negative impacts on American society.
Furthermore, PBL teaches students a unrealistic lesson: everything has to be FUN. This isn't how life works, and I, as a teacher, am not doing my students any favors if I give them the notion that I and the school are nothing more than
@Rugby80 "entertainers" for them. This does not help them in the long run.
Projects CAN be useful SOMETIMES- but it should be a tool, not the basis. And yes, lectures CAN be engaging for students. I find it funny when it's stated lecturing is not engaging; however, a stand-up comedian can engage an audience of hundreds or thousands LECTURING with humor. The problem is not lectures in the classroom, but how the material is presented. PBL can have negative impacts in the long run.
@Rugby80 I have read your posts, and have a lot of respect for your opinions. However, I would like to constructively argue with you that the basics have NOT been "ignored," but rather, in PBL are not the end-game. Our standardized tests don't require our kids to even Remember facts...just recognize the correct one from a list. As kids Create their projects, the teacher needs to be sure that the skills they are learning are becoming more complex as they work their way up Bloom's Taxonomy.
You can teach basics with PBL, but it takes an incredible amount of time and essentially becomes a guided "recreation of the wheel". Given the amount of material we are trying to teach before these kids hit 18/19, I am not sure it is viable. I also have found that the best projects are ones that incorporate many different areas of knowledge, that they work great when they are separate from the normal syllabus, but overwhelming when used to replace the syllabus.
Good stuff. I am a Civics & Law teacher in NYC and am currently getting students prepared for a mock trial. Only a couple of my teams are working well together. After watching this video, I have decided to let the students choose how they want to present their part of the trial. Instead of all written material, they could create a posterboard of the charges in the case, gather a bag of evidence they feel is relevant, and so forth. That might solve the "I'm tired of writing" complaint. Thanks.
Great, but it's not possible to do this for every topic. We do a lot of this in Ireland in the 4th year of high school, but it takes up a lot of classtime.
Im planing on Home Schooling my boy.
felipipi 3 months ago
this contains some elements of truth, but it was soo cheesy :)
orangemarme 3 months ago
That's how my school is. I love it this way. c:
TGIBry 3 months ago
Ok, from 5th grade I've had this kind of way of learning and it ONLY works if everyone wants to learn, it does improve learning but also makes it possible to do nothing at all. The work of a group is always the average of their work, ergo if one does nothing, the others are forced to work harder.
My opinion is that this does NOT work until children gets into their late teens OR when the class has a very specific type of education.
ZaQen 3 months ago
(part two) No matter how shallow and stupid it is, social status and friends in the group WILL come into play on who has the "best" idea. 3) People will automaticly be draw to the assembly line method, each researching one thing without learning everything about the topic. 4) It's important that we get experiance, but teachers today spend about one week per topic/unit. There's not enough time to work in these projects. 5) its more productive to do projets with 1-2 people who will EACH understand
iPokePixels 3 months ago
I hate projects, each group gets 1 person who cares and they carry the work. I know this because im the one kid.
RolandTheJabberwocky 3 months ago
As a kid who is actually in high school with a few teachers who do this stuff, I actually rather have the memorization. Here are some of the issues I've experianced with group projects. 1) It's in a teen's nature to procrastinate. If we have groups, those who don't procrastinate will end up doing all the work, otherwise everyone will procrastinate and not do the amount of research and colaboration the teacher wanted. 2) No matter how great an idea is, majority vote comes into play. (cont part 2)
iPokePixels 3 months ago
I find it weird that alot of people are complaining that it will ruin my grades, it won't work well with a bad group or even "i'll carry the entire group on my back". Actually, how is that bad? Grades based on tests are a big flop, because you simply don't study and go take tests when WORKING in real life. You have a problem/project and you work your way through it. What about bad groups? You think you will only work with people you like in real life? And the same thing applies for "carriers".
joaocorreiamedia 3 months ago 5
While it's true that groups will not always function correctly, it's vital for kids to do this kind of work because in the real world, they may be assigned into a dysfunctional group. It's important for kids to learn to adapt. And even if the group is dysfunctional on occasion, does that mean memorization and regurgitation of information is a better way to learn? At least with project-based learning the kids participating are more likely to remember the information.
cocomarie823 3 months ago
This works well if all the students are equally motivated. Sadly, most of the time they aren't. This system looks good on paper, but it doesn't exactly work out as perfect as they say it does.
GameBenchers 3 months ago 7
Get an engineering degree, I promise you will have plenty of projects.
aca20031 3 months ago 3
project based learning only works if the group functions. that might not always be the case.... besides the focus should also be on solving the issues with group dynamics. Project based learning isn't a miracle, it is an effective tool when used correctly. the last part there is VERY important. It isn't enough to just say... group up.
prowled 3 months ago
First, This video lacks how this PBL can be applied in a large scale state-funded system of education.
The problems with education is not the type of learning that is done in classrooms but the application of it in a large scale state-funded system of education.
PBL requires a degree of freedom which state-funded education lacks.
Second, How will students be evaluated in PBL? The definition of success and failure becomes more subjective. Evaluation through testing is less bias than PBL.
Cienstin 3 months ago 3
I go to a new tech school which is project based learning and we all haves macs but NOOO ONE LIKES It! It sucks like really bad lol the idea of project based learning is good but it just doesn't work. LIke MrZeck98 said not everyone works at the same pace and i hate carrying my group because it causes a lot of stress and gives them an easy A. I also find myself distracted by things in the project rather than actually focusing on learning the material we are making a project about... Sucks!
Therealstuff6 3 months ago 4
I wish my last school had at least 1/10 of the technology that's shown in this.
nesli 3 months ago
The really big problem about this is; Not everyone are able to work in groups, either because they just don't like working with others, or because of social problems.
TheJoakimProductions 3 months ago 2
well done :)
thatswassupone 3 months ago
This doesn't work. It's a good theory, but most of the students I know don't split the work equally and it ends up being pushed onto one person, even if they report it to the teacher as "everyone did their fair share."
ChiyosukeBLC 3 months ago 4
yes i remember what it was like in school. Im going back tomorrow and the day after... :<
gtr3cords 3 months ago 69
This doesn't work well in school because people don't work at the same level, I end up doing more work but over all I do less because I can't pull an entire group.
MrZeck98 3 months ago 76
@MrZeck98 That doesn't mean this doesn't work. Individuals pulling down the group is something that can be worked on, not a reason to deem this idea bad.
Search111add 3 months ago
This is a terrible idea, especially as someone who doesn't fair well with projects. (Do them early, they don't come out well based on the creativity level they want, plenty of info) This would ruin my good grades. I don't pick up well messing with a piece of poster board, I do best reading and noting things in my own head.
telescopedreams 3 months ago
Unless every children does the projects that every other child is doing they are only learning an extremely narrow part of their curriculum. They'll probably have a very thorough understanding of the topic they researched and then be equally unresponsive to their classments as they are to their teacher.
Project Based Learning is a great tool to use but is a very poor way to teach material en masse.
MegaScraw 3 months ago
i have an essay to do....that counts as a project right? i dont wanna do it !!!
iwillavengeyou 3 months ago
but we can't get good marks in IGCSE if we do this kind of work in school.
abdur1996 3 months ago
hay isn't that the guy who also explained how bittorrent works?!
abdur1996 3 months ago
I'm interested in how they get students to participate. How do they motivate those that think everything is boring and lame? How do they get loners to work well with groups? How do they deal with students who game the system?
iwasfrancisd 3 months ago
@iwasfrancisd I'm a student, The thing that gets student like me motivated is the fact that you make the topic of your project interesting, not make it seem like something we should be extremely excited about (not overdoing it), and allow humor.
Blukerbeh 3 months ago
In short, hands on learning is better than being lectured.
SaviorSixtySix 3 months ago
Some stuff this works with, and some stuff it DON"T but most imporantly,
People don't all learn with the same instruional style.
tubamanb 3 months ago
So how can we do this with math? I hated all of my high school math classes because my teachers failed explain how I will ever use factoring a trinomial, or knowing how to calculate with imaginary numbers will ever com in handy in my adult life; therefor I never understood why I should pay attention and break my back just to learn these inconsequential calculus equations.
beccalincecum 3 months ago
@beccalincecum Because of mathe there is cars. Because of math we know earth is not flat. Because of math, we can build houses. It is your human duty to learn math. It is your duty as part of society to know math. Only thing that seperates us from animals is our intelect. Math is highest level of intelect, since with math you cant do pretty much everything. If you dont like math, you dont deserve to be part of society and therefore death
TheBallKeeper 3 months ago
@TheBallKeeper Despite the couple of your expressed ideas that hold merit, your delivery is littered with biased and on the whole deeply ignorant. To say the least If you were clever you'd realize that if you want to influence someone's thinking, you don't insult them.
EGoldsteine 3 months ago
@beccalincecum You can make the goals worthwhile.
Take a look at sports. Why would people run for miles, lift weights for hours, risk injuries, and perform repetitive motions day after day? I think athletes do those things because there are some very basic human desires that are fulfilled by sports.
I think one way to make math more human is to focus proving something. Look at that story about Archimedes and The Golden Crown. He was so happy that he ran naked in public screaming "Eureka!"
iwasfrancisd 3 months ago
PBL is a good concept with the right teachers. Unfortunately, I had a horrible experience with PBL senior year of hs. Teachers would give us a project without a clear direction to let us be creative in our projects, but without a rubric we were all graded unfairly. At the end of each project we all (my entire senior class ~300kids) failed every project, because the teachers expected "more", and wouldn't tell us what they wanted until after we already failed...
GamingTaylor 3 months ago
The project is amazingly interesting.
huixera 4 months ago
Easy to understand and good introduction to PBL. : )
rnikorn 5 months ago
Teachers tend to teach as they were taught and as they learn best. If the goal is for teachers to utilize PBL more often teachers need to experience the process of PBL for themselves. Possibly professional development where the teachers are expected to redisign curriculum or write a end of year assessment for their subject. It isn't that traditional teaching doesn't work, it's just that there are ways to mix it up in the classroom and keep the learning interesting.
jgoodwinism 9 months ago
Getting students involved is a great idea and does work--but when do we teach them that sometimes life is boring? Sometimes sitting and listening and forcing oneself to be interested is a more valuable lesson than having fun.
And I didn't see any evidence that the students actually learned or retained more through the project.
Eng101C 10 months ago
Who taught simmons? We act like somehow school doesn't work...but if it didn't work at all, then how did we get the people who can come up with things like PBL?
Eng101C 10 months ago
A similar "degrading" of a great idea is the science fair projects. How many projects have you seen where the student unwittingly was masquerading a product comparison ("Which toothpaste will brighten the most?") as the scientific process, and using a bogus process at that ("I brushed pennies with each toothpaste and found that...") Do pennies really work like teeth?!? Were the pennies subjected to the same conditions as a human mouth? "I think Crest will win" is NOT a hypothesis, it is a guess.
JamesCTaylorJr 10 months ago
PBL is great in concept, but so hard to do in practice. For example, Clare's project involved real critical thinking - finding a balance between conflicting demands (had a budget, Time/Cost/Quality). The "flu" example did not, it was just a research project that was presented to others. No critical thinking took place. This can quickly devolve into "make work" when the emphasis turns on to the presentation, and kids (and parents!) spend most time on making pretty boards, displays, etc.
JamesCTaylorJr 10 months ago
I taught using PBL for many years, and I now help teachers learn to do the same. There is nothing like it for building skills, confidence, and facilitating true deep learning that lasts. My oldest students are now almost 30 and they continue to amaze me. I'm about to blog about it if you want to read more about technology related to PBL.
FriedTechnology 10 months ago
For some subjects this can work, but, I'm sorry, the BASICS still need to be taught, and PBL cannot teach them this. For example, I teach high school social studies. Most of my students have had PBL since elementary. By the time the students got to my classes, they knew how to make a great project, but DID NOT know the 50 states and their locations, DID NOT know the difference between Washington DC and Washington state, etc... This is due to PBL.
Rugby80 10 months ago
@Rugby80 The basics are ignored, and the previous are just examples from social studies. I, personally, graduated from a high school that had PBL back in the 90's. Although I was a good student, when I went to college I had to RELEARN EVERYTHING! I went to (supposedly) one of the best public schools in the country, and I was not prepared for a taste of the real world. A lot of this was due to PBL training students to do a GREAT diorama, but not knowing how to properly read, write,
Rugby80 10 months ago
@Rugby80 due basic math without the use of calculators, etc. If we have generation after generation of students being taught how to do projects, but they do not retain the information for long-term use, it can have major negative impacts on American society.
Furthermore, PBL teaches students a unrealistic lesson: everything has to be FUN. This isn't how life works, and I, as a teacher, am not doing my students any favors if I give them the notion that I and the school are nothing more than
Rugby80 10 months ago
@Rugby80 "entertainers" for them. This does not help them in the long run.
Projects CAN be useful SOMETIMES- but it should be a tool, not the basis. And yes, lectures CAN be engaging for students. I find it funny when it's stated lecturing is not engaging; however, a stand-up comedian can engage an audience of hundreds or thousands LECTURING with humor. The problem is not lectures in the classroom, but how the material is presented. PBL can have negative impacts in the long run.
Rugby80 10 months ago
@Rugby80 Just 2 cents worth from an American public school educator who is frustrated on how our students are being "taught".
Rugby80 10 months ago
@Rugby80 I have read your posts, and have a lot of respect for your opinions. However, I would like to constructively argue with you that the basics have NOT been "ignored," but rather, in PBL are not the end-game. Our standardized tests don't require our kids to even Remember facts...just recognize the correct one from a list. As kids Create their projects, the teacher needs to be sure that the skills they are learning are becoming more complex as they work their way up Bloom's Taxonomy.
impulse60 9 months ago
@Rugby80
You can teach basics with PBL, but it takes an incredible amount of time and essentially becomes a guided "recreation of the wheel". Given the amount of material we are trying to teach before these kids hit 18/19, I am not sure it is viable. I also have found that the best projects are ones that incorporate many different areas of knowledge, that they work great when they are separate from the normal syllabus, but overwhelming when used to replace the syllabus.
JamesCTaylorJr 10 months ago
Good stuff. I am a Civics & Law teacher in NYC and am currently getting students prepared for a mock trial. Only a couple of my teams are working well together. After watching this video, I have decided to let the students choose how they want to present their part of the trial. Instead of all written material, they could create a posterboard of the charges in the case, gather a bag of evidence they feel is relevant, and so forth. That might solve the "I'm tired of writing" complaint. Thanks.
schulmantwin 11 months ago
its crap innit
beaukds1998 1 year ago
we have this one in our schoool!!!
doreduy1998 1 year ago
boring
cashmaster159 1 year ago
Fantastic!
cmSol 1 year ago
Great, but it's not possible to do this for every topic. We do a lot of this in Ireland in the 4th year of high school, but it takes up a lot of classtime.
cybersusst 1 year ago
excellent job!
sameena97 1 year ago
¡Un proyecto genial!
girlhelenacortes 1 year ago
Nice and simple. Like it.
helenotway 1 year ago
Totally awesome! I'm all for more projects and fewer dittos and scantrons.
baynardbailey 1 year ago
Awesome! Thanks to Buck Institute and Lee and the gang at CommonCraft!
ChrisSLA 1 year ago
Fantastic project! :)
italiandemon 1 year ago