THE risk with LHC CERN (of something going wrong exists)

[BlackMetalWarewolf]

@swarooptheone thats not gonna be a probolem. It requires alot of mass to create a black hole, They experiment at the quantum level. Smaller than an atom to the point where the quanum gravity is relevent. They create moments of high energy densities that last billionths of a second. Any black holes coming from those collisions will instantly destabilize due to the lack of mass. They arent big enough to consume even 1 atom

Risk assesment, do you stop breathing incase you inhale a toxin, or live?

[BrownBrown90]

The reason we haven't been able to contact intelligent life is because every time a planet reaches a certain level of technological advancement their physicists destroy everything in their foolish, arrogant curiousity. Curiousity killed the cat and will eventually kill us. Particle physicists should all be lined up and shot.

[BlackMetalWarewolf]

@BrownBrown90 the reason they havent made contact with us is because after 2,000 years of travelling light begins to change its wavelength and any signals purposely left there are lost. So all those radio signals they send dont really do much because Its unlikely to find life within a 2000 lightyear radius of earth. Maybe they havent gotten around this issue is because paranoid numpties like you hold them back incase they burn their fingers a little.

People like you should be lined up and shot

[BrownBrown90]

@BlackMetalWarewolf

Not paranoid. Just more intelligent than you. Now go fuck yourslef with a light saber.

[BrownBrown90]

@BlackMetalWarewolf

Not paranoid. Just more intelligent and thoughtful than you. People like you have been lined up and shot. Now go fuck yourself with a light saber.

[BlackMetalWarewolf]

@BrownBrown90 your comment on its own gives you zero credibility. Its track record that intelligent people dont call themselves intelligent, then make an immature statement like that afterwards. then when you dont get my attention first time, repeat yourself with a second and much more immature ad hominem attack added on.

let me give you a hint

-adress the knowlege in the comment and leave the childish crap out of your comments and maybe you will have some credibility elsewhere.

[jony1710]

@BrownBrown90 well you can put your mind at rest as nothing wen't wrong.

[calebandstef]

@BrownBrown90

Because you TOTALLY know what's going on on different planets, right? How about we haven't been able to contact intelligent life because space is so big that it's probably the biggest challenge mankind has to face. Quit playing Einstein and do research before spouting random shit that's completely irrelevant.

Saying that particle physicists should be lined up and shot? My god, what has this world come to.

Oh and it's been a year since you commented, Earth's still up and runnin'.

[gooby90]

With all due respect. Everything u say n everything u think isnt going to stop them from charging the machine. Ur just a small voice within a giant pool of guppies. You could create a huge pool of voices... but still TOO much money has been dropped onto this project, TRUST ME... TOO MUCH MONEY, just to be stopped because of some1z fears. :| Srry, but its the truth.

[Ju1ceem4n]

hey its predo from napolean dinamite.

[haddbenj]

how do u have an opinion on anything, have u seen wat u look like u look homeless

[CERNobyl2008]

07.05.2009 - Exit at CERN!

The first country - Austria has decided! opting out of the CERN program for 2011!

Austria is one of the twenty countries, the LHC project - funded at CERN.

[bettedavis1]

this guy has a concern and he has the right to vioce his concern if you cant hear him or understand him maybe it is you people that have the problem. have some tolerance for godsake or dont post your silly comments.his overall message is of worry and concern. are we all not feeling the same way in these days of uncertanty. have a heart!

[guruartist]

Now we know something is wrong; therefore the one year delay. Perhaps the scientific world has to rethink what would really be the next step. Obviously, none of these brainy scientists, is humble enough to declare this.

[RossPK81]

I'm sure the scientists know what they're doing. I doubt they'd go ahead with this if there was a significant enough of a risk.

[swarooptheone]

but from the perspectve of human psychology

Assume u r a scientist who has spent your entire youth & have sacrificed all your happiness in building, and finding funds for this project..

and 14yrs of work into it... billions of dollars and unparalleled efforts into making it.

in the mind of those scientists, it is 'larger than life, larger than everything',

for them, after all the effort, they subconsciously wont mind risking anything for a chance of success [though consciously they may not]

[muebermuth]

seems so...

[muebermuth]

did scientists every know what they are doing? they even lighted up the first atomic weapon even they did not know if the atmosphere will light up.. so what do they know? They do nothing they only have theorems and theories.. nothing else!

[detibry]

i know a few professors that have worked on the conception of the LHC so let me enlighten all those who doubt. one just doesn't wake up and become a physicist. there is a life time of effort put into learning that's required. until you know with mathematical rigor ALL the "theorems and theories" you have nothing to say. i find it insulting to the scientific community that you should make the claims you make. read up before you talk up.

[swarooptheone]

you can not speak about 'enlighten all those who doubt'.... Sorry, science has a habit of throwing unexpected things at us.... the theorems and theories of today may appear flawed sometime in the future... and then luckily there have been good 'surprises' by science, eg superconductivity etc... however, if something bad happens , we may not be anywhere at all to know what happened...

[detibry]

what are you talking about? the construction and operation of the lhc is based entirely on proven scientific formula and laws. i dont think you fully understand what is going on with the operation of the lhc. the lhc's purpose is to focus a mediocre quantity of energy, relative to our macroscopic reference, into a small volume. unless you disagree with steven hawkings and the rest of the scientific community that validate his work, there is no danger present in what the lhc is doing.

[swarooptheone]

ok the problem is that you really are not understanding my point of view... Yes Stephen Hawking is a highly respectable man, but the more the investigations you do into the weirdness of the universe, the more inaccurate (if not totally wrong) seem to be the existing consensus on everything....

exampl: its like we r fishes in a pond & we shouldnt be playing with chemical reactions, even if there is slightest almost inconceivable risk of a chemical being released that would destroy the habitat

[detibry]

can you give me an example in history where scientific inquiry has hindered the growth of our understanding of the universe? i think yur blowing this hole thing out of proportion. we're not even close to "playing with chemical reactions". unless the physical laws that govern our universe fall apart when the switch is flipped, there is absolutely no world wide risk from the lhc.  the proof is not only in the math, but also in the fact that you and i are having this conversation right now.

[swarooptheone]

no where in the past has something of this magnitude been undertaken... yes, there were fears before the A and H-bombs, but probably our calculations went to be correct then... Eg, there are reports that the tzar bomba was downgraded to 50MT from 150MT so as to avoid fracturing the earth crust..

similarly, none of us were afraid of the previous accelerators.. but the CERN is something huge.

[detibry]

the amount of energy released in an atomic bomb is 84000 TJ. the amount of eV in a Joule is 6E18. so the amount of energy (in eV) released by the atomic bomb is approximately (84000*6)E30 eV! the lhc maximum capability is 14e12 eV which pales in comparison to the energy emitted from an atomic explosion. as i said before you are blowing this out of proportion.

[swarooptheone]

yes i get your argument that energy is not big enough to stand a chance of being utterly destructive!... My fear is not about the energy, its about a new phenomenon, unknown/undiscovered as of now...

in nature, some stuff happen only when they happen, i am feeling short of words to express my thoughts, i wil give a try.

[swarooptheone]

Water doesnt boil off rapidly even if you keep heating it at 200F for minutes in series... but if you heat it for a few seconds at 212F, it will be vapor! we know boiling point because its something we have had gains and pains from... (early steam engines= gain, and them exploding after too much pressure= pain)... but they were inconceiveable by the best minds of then, ... but now, its the same story, but of a different magnitude, if of a bigger magnitude, time may decide to answer,

[swarooptheone]

& math can not always be used to justify everything, there wil be some minute deviation..eg two people who pay the same amount of money for the same weight of fruits in the same shop may get slightly different quality of stuff...

Positive serendipity is always good. eg, we were glad when we knew that there is a critical set of attributes that makes a boundary between a controlled fission in a powerplant to that of a tremendous fission bomb explosion...

[detibry]

what's the extent of you mathematical knowledge?

[swarooptheone]

dont do that...

lest i may have to question your logical abilities

... I am till now happy about this cos probably this is the first time i have been having a non-flaming discussion here...

[detibry]

i meant no offense. its just that what we are talking about requires an advanced understanding of mathematics. im a physics major and still have a ways to go before i understand the mathematics that will enable me to fully grasp particle physics. what im saying is dont be too quick in disregarding the validity mathematics gives to our universe especially IF you lack understanding.now i could be wrong and you may know a great deal about the math behind lhc but if not u have no place to question.

[swarooptheone]

yes, as a physics major you will be knowing a lot more than me about the universe,

im just a mere trainee neurologist who questions the nature of perception of the universe itself, and how all seems fluid depending on the ability of the person to perceive things.

Maths indeed is a highly rational mode of science.. But, contempt towards the nature of science and the behaviour of nature itself, due to one having a good mathematical grasp, can have quite unexpected results

[swarooptheone]

but for sure, since how much we know about the weirdness of the universe is so minuscule compared to how much we know about it... i can say

You know a lot more about the universe than me

But how much we both dont know , is almost equal,

[given the infinity of the unknown]

[swarooptheone]

The fear is about a negative-serendipity.. we look for something and we get something else. There must be a real strong debate between the proponents and opponents so that both parties get to understand each other's stances & justifications of the issue.

[swarooptheone]

Finally my question to you is "are the expected benefits significant enough to outweigh the smallest risk of annihilation?" .. And you would like to ask "is such a negligible and probably baseless assumption of a risk significant enough to outweigh the benefits". We dont know. You will not agree to my concerns. I will not agree to your justifications. Time will answer. If in case the LHC goes full operational, I hope you win this argument.

[sp00nman8]

That's Okay, Spammed it for yah/

But we still can't hear you.

[swarooptheone]

Note: NO prob if you cant hear a thing

Sorry, i've not got a high-fi studio thing kind of recorder... Just a poor old cell phone...

SEE WRITTEN DESCPRITION atleast

[sp00nman8]

i dont believe ANYONE can fucking hear a damn thing that you said for about three quarters of the damn talk. YOU SUCK AT TALKING/EXPLAINING ENGLISH TO YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS WHO CAN UNDERSTAND A LOT OF YOU ASSHOLES WHEN YOU HAVE MOSTLY EVERYTHING WRONG IN YOUR SENTENCE AND THINK ITS YOUR WAY OF TELLING AMERICA THAT THAT IS "WHO YOU REALLY ARE INSIDE". what i heard - emo doobie american large hadron LHC something go wrong boom bai can kai dang buy a can of dai and sigh with executaivees...bla bla

[swarooptheone]

...

You must get yourself an appointment with a psychiatrist...

I am sure you've got Tourette syndrome

..

Take care

..

I am not american

[RossPK81]

Do you not have a volume dial?

[Jonster123]

Why have you lied about your age on your YouTube profile? I mean you are clearly not 20, if you are 20 you could do with some help, now.