I purchase disabled and used chillers for their parts and I curently need a trane chiller,If this unit is no longer needed I would be glad to purchase
@markstanley260 As far as I know, this chiller is still in service. It was as of summer 2008, and there were no plans to replace it. I no longer work for this company.
@W7ENK Hm interesting. I used to wonder what kind of A/C unit large businesses use. I imagine that the water goes to a de-humidifier process to separate moisture from the water no?
@W7ENK LOL, it's okay. I find large equipment like that pretty fascinating. What is even more fascinating is watching crane operators setting large equipment on top of tall buildings. Talk about getting goosebumps, lol.
@theduke502 You can't separate water from moisture, they're the same thing. Though, in a system like this, the chilled water is sent through the cooling coils (like a radiator in a car, only it's giving off cold air) and the moisture in the air collects as condensate on the coils and drips down into the condensate pan and the drains.
I love your videos! Do you know anyone who needs help with their handwriting? Just google "Chrissy Handwriting" and go to the videos page. Every letter of the alphabet is demonstrated on my channel. Thanks for friending me!
That looks like a 300 - 400 ton, R-11 or water type chiller? The largest I used to service was 300 ton. I've seen chillers up to 600 ton and that was a BEAST!!! Made my 300 ton'er look like a window-shaker AC unit in comparison.
Machine obviously had no load on it, thus the surging. Looks like the guy put in some hot gas bypass, after the fact of course. That's an esy way to wipe out a thrust bearing in the compressor.
@R3MUS2007 I've done work with some newly installed York Centrifugal Chillers at NYU medical center. And even after wearing the ear protection you ears ring for days. They're very loud. The loudest equipment I've ever worked with along with diesel generators.
@TheLightningStalker These things are most definitely not found in your local grocery store... Unless that grocery store happens to be about 500,000 sq. ft., lol
I myself work at an ice rink that has a chiller made by Cimco, uses 3 open drive compressors in tandom connected to 480 volt 3 phase Lincoln electric motors. The unit uses Ammonia R717, and chills a salt water brine mixture, and boy I remember the first day I was in that room when 2 out of the 3 compressors started up, it was that exact sound that I heard here, and I could feel the ground below my feet vibrate. Now I don't look at ice skating the same way, lot goes into freezing the ice.
Running a machine while it surges like that is not too smart. If its short of refrigerant due to a leak, even less smart, but probably NOT the reason it is surging.Check your tower temps, much more likely that they are set for too low a temperature....that or you don't have enough load to run the machine (assuming there is no hot gas bypass)...and mudbone...I hear you!
This is whats call a Centravac. It runs low pressure with R-11 or the new ones \R-123. This chiller is surginging because likely it's got a leak. It makes that sound because the impeller is slipping in the vapor compression because of too much lift. Amperage goes down too to show this. makes the motor shaft lift up 1-3 thousandths and ruins the effeciency.
The hourly cost of running one of these units is 500 dollars an hour. This guy sweating this start up is a rookie. he should try starting a steam turbine. Local 94 baby!!!
Hughes plant in El Segundo had 6 of these in central plant for the whole facility. One compressor would normally be enough during cool weather. Huge water towers outdoors. The system was installed around 1979. Do not know if it is still there. One day someone decided he would run one of the variable speed water pumps to full speed. There was a screech, a little smoke and all of the power shut down. Of course the phones lit up when the lab areas started calling in!
actually its a cvhb 1100{benchgrinder} from what i can see and its probably a wye delta.starter, and from the sound of it either it has air in it or the condenser water is really hot. ive rebuilt more of those than i care to count lol!!
ah the good old days. even with the chiller surging and everything. you would be surprised how much beating one of those can take. where i worked 10 years ago there was a 1100 ton chve the next design after this one and it had to be overhauled 10 years after installation. they ran the plant like a bunch of retards when i started there. 4 of 5 pumps on with a 3deg delta t at best it was fun watching stuff get torn up. i have alot of respect for how much abuse those trane machines can take.
NICE!! have not seen one of these old Trane in some time. We serviced one here in Puerto Rico. It must be the oldest unit on the Island..jeje. About 3 years now that I have not gone to the site. Everytime we went to start this unit we expected the worse, being so old and semi-hermetic (more fittings and gaskets) that thing filled up with air fast!! Once you got it loaded (working were she wanted) you can barely hear it. Good old unit. Great teaching tool for rookies on Centrifugal Chillers
What a trip. We have this same Centravac in our Plant. Our building was built in late '60s. Am also familiar w/that sound you never wanna hear: Surging. I'd hold a crew training after this. Surging is not good, especially on larger units, but on any unit. I'd go over -Where was the Vane capacity dial upon start up? -Definitely the thrust bearing issue (worst case possibilities). -High Lift. -What is the Cooling Tower doing? -Condensor Temps & Press. -Hot Gas Bypass Cool vid.
@codsixrules Being that it's three phase, it's also times the square root of three, and being alternating current you arrive at the figure for volt amperes (432,320 va). That times the power factor- which is probably around 90 percent for motor that large- means the watts are 389kw. Divide by 746 (watts per hp) and multiply times a guess at efficiency- at least 95%- and you have 521 hp. Motors come in standard sizes of 500 and 600 hp, so this one looks like it's 500 hp. as ham W7ENK said...
@W7ENK More specifically it's a cross between a condenser and an indoor coil. The long tube at the bottom is the heat exchanger. It has 2 chambers inside. A hot side and a cold side. The cold side supplies chilled water. The hot side sends the heat removed from the water up to a cooling tower of equal tonnage.
to be precise it chills water that is then plumbed thought the campus and used in air handlers, which are huge air conditioners that use this cold water to chill the air
I have absolutely no idea... sorry. It was built in the 1960s, and from what I remember, there was a 12,5KV || 4,160V transformer into a 4,160V switchgear with a massive contactor... that contactor fed the motor control circuit (big grey box on the left at the beginning) and a power meter. Now, it does have network control, which brings all the associated pumps online (you can hear at 0:12) before the unit starts, if that gives you any idea... I haven't been there in over 2 years now.
This is the same chiller I have @ work. Sounds exactly the same on start-up, but when it starts growling high pitched later on, I don't blame U for running.That would scare the sh*t outta me too. Never heard that before. Are you starting at 40% demand & working up to 100% using limiter selector dial or is it a VFD type limiter controled chiller? Starting it w/dial on 100% may cause it to growl like that.
Centravac. Our's was installed in 1970 when our building was built.
cool. across the line 4160. pretty nice. yea those double-enders and nice. pain in the ass to tear down. probably r-123 converted from R11, or R113, depending how old it is. definately a low pressure machine. no R-22 in that thing.
Also known as a "bench ginder". I'm sorry if others are upset about the discussion going on. I have a habbit of getting upset when people try to make claims that are inaccurate without any facts (mod# or ser#) to back up. Especially, when my expertise is called into question. I'm not trying to say I know everything, anyone in service that is decent knows this is impossible. Hope all of the reasonable people viewing this understand.
low pressure trane. double ender is what the old guys call em. i know where a very, very old one sits. it's smaller, but it looks basically the same. been told they were some of the best ever built. tough as a tank.
I just read all the comments....1776 is probably a chiller guy with lots of different applications under his belt. He does not convey this well as he probably inhales to much R-123. He is correct about all the high pressure units. He is also correct in the fact he agrees this chiller in the video is a low pressure machine. This is how we make our living...why fight about it. Too much ego
With all the crap on YouTube which always are rated 5 stars of course by about a dozen buddies and you're trashing this cool video...And how did you get to know the word "scab"?
I don't work there anymore, haven't for over 2 years. I don't remember, and have lost contact with the guys there that would know about this machine. I was told it uses R-22 by one of the techs. If not, then I have no idea what it uses. I was just there to punch tubes and assist with bringing these things online in the spring. I'm not an expert at these things, but I posted this video because it was a big noisy machine that I found interesting. I had no idea it would cause such controversy.
we all have a nose and you can smell if a plant room is flooded with refrigerant, if you wanted to die from asphyxiation walk in. but the realistically and slow death is cancer caused from r123 its carcinogenic.
.....you should read up on this. I don't think there have been any documented 123 cancer except in mice...although quite a few deaths have been attributed to asphyxiation. The only odor in 123 coming out of the chiller is the oil smell...otherwise odorless until it is too late.
As I read these comments and hear the operation, I'm forced to ask two questions: When was the last "full" leak check done on this machine and what are the hours and starts since last rebuild? This unit is surging due to air is my guess, therefore it really needs some help along with new R-11. Plus, you might want to leave the purge on during the winter if the leaks have become to extensive to repair. Plus, if this is a 70's or previous machine it's costing more money to run than replace.
look at the tag line's. Firstly: r11 has been phased out as a refrigerant for since 1996 as part of the kyoto treaty so where is the new r11 coming from? Secondly: Its R22 so a drop in could be used as r22 is going shortly or why not do a good job and retrofit? Thirdly: Leaving to purge if the system is open!!! Are you stupid? Glad i don't have to chase around YOUR recals at work! When the hell was the last time you worked on any sort of fridge system?
I don't know all the specifics, esp since I haven't worked at this place for almost 2 years now, but from what I remember about this machine, it uses R-22 (I mis-spoke in one of my comments and said R-11).
This machine is so old that it needs a LOT of love every year. The purge pump is too small (in my opinion) and cannot keep up with all the leaks, even tho we practically coated the entire thing with sealer every year.
Being so old, big and leaky, starting it was always a challenge!
I hope you are not a chiller mechanic. There is no way that machine uses R-22. Trane never, ever, produced a R-22 Centrifugal. R-22 is a high preassure refrigerant, it would not have a purge if it had R-22. If a high preassure machine had a leak, it would lose refrigerant, not let air in.
This machine most probably uses R123, R11's replacement.
TRANE DOESNT HAVE HIGH PREASSURE CENTRIFUGALS IN THE USA!!!!
There is also large tonnage trane r-12 water cooled centrifugal chiller in San Francisco at 1 Market Plaza. Last time I checked r-12 was High pressure. IN THE USA
R-12: In the US, no larger than 320 tons... Not large!!!! As for R-12 high pressure, does not have purge.... This one does... Plus, all of the R-12 machines in the US are air cooled... Do you think this is an air-cooled machine????
This is obviously a low pressure machine. I have seen large tonnage R-12 units in refineries with a purge...HP ammonia unit always have a purge. No it's not air cooled. The unit I mention in SF are 1500 ton r-12 centrifugals that are water cooled. You make blanket statements that are not fact. Are you more of a package unit guy. You surely have no experience in the industrial sector or you would not say things like you do.
@24pipewrench Never seen a CVGF and have only heard about some CVAA installations. There was also an OCV that ran R-12, I think. By the time R-123 is phased out, everything will be magnetic bearing oil-less VFD compressors, so I don't think that we'll ever see the CVGF here, either.
where's the purge pump? I don't see it. What kind of service do you perfrom on your chillers. Major or minor? do you tear it down, service vanes, impeller, bearings and seals?
Are you required to do annual refrigearant audits from the state?
the HVAC industry will tell you that an R-11 machine, kept tight, is the best chiller ton to ton, and technicians will tell you R-123 is no where near as good a refrigerant.
We have 3 York 850's, 3 York 550 screws, that also double as ice makers for a 14,000 ton-hour thermal storage bank =)
i've only installed the electrical for these machines. but it seems to me if there is that much air in the system they need to install more purge valves at various high points in the system and bleed it. the cavitation alone will destroy it along with all the pumps. 4 attempts is a bit much!
It's so big, so loud, and so old - it sits on a suspended slab, and when it surges, the floor shakes. It's almost like an angry elephant on a rampage, and the squealing is so loud it's ear-splitting even through ear protection.
I guess its enormity is a little intimidating.
This was one of several start-up attempts over 4 days. We had to shut it back down when the surging became nearly constant. It's damn near impossible to purge all the air out of this thing after sitting all winter long.
I saw a newer Trane Centravac in the backround. when you run them both up on a normal day under normal operating conditions, which ones louder or quieter or do they sound the same? It's fine if you don't remember just wondering how loud the new ones are since the only centravac i'm used to is an old 250 ton unit at my middle school i'm attending in oregon city.
The chiller at my school does not instantly spool up like this beast, but it slowly ramps up to speed. And I know for a fact it does not have vfd. It sounds a lot like a jet starting besides the low hum.
Quick question. Do you remember how the refrigerant was drawn into the evaporater? I was thinking that refrigerant moves through the chiller by just the force from the vapor refrigerant coming out of the compressor and into the condenser. Am I wrong or right?
As it was explained to me, surging happens when the temperature difference between the evaporator and condenser gets too high, or if there's air in the refrigerant circuit, both of which can cause a sudden shift in pressure. That loud squeal is from the refrigerant "surging" in reverse through the impeller because of that pressure change.
Maybe someone else reading this could explain it better?
I decided to do a little bit of searching, and it looks like this only a problem on centrifugal compressors because they are not positive displacement
As you said, centrifugal compressors are not positive displacemnt compressors, so when the discharge pressure gets to a unmanagable ratio to the suction pressure it rushes back through the volutes of the compressor. That's the intense 'scream' you hear a few times at 2:18 - 2:32.
looks like a 1200 to 1400 trane spool. probably runs on 4160 volts. Have 1 ot a plant that I work at. Also have a 1900 ton york. York is much better than Trane anyday.
This unit is almost identical to the one that was in a federal courthouse I worked in. (Since Replaced). It was as I remember 360 tons. When the starter would slam shut in the electrical panel behind the chiller, you could feel it in the floor when it slammed shut, then the compressor would slowly spool up and finally hit its last high note and be in full speed mode. It was awesome being the one that got to control this unit and do daily checks on it. Any big work was contracted out to Trane.
Yeah, these things aren't quiet by any means. When this pig was running, I couldn't be in that half of the mechanical room without earplugs - the scream was overwhelming!
This unit is 970 tons, R-11 built in 1964.
When she surges (you can hear it start to at 2:17 in the video) the floor would shake and you'd think the world was coming to an end!
The unit at my school was installed in 1966. I have a video of it if you want to see it start. The video also showes the unit. It's like a little 250 ton sister to this unit.
The chiller that they cut up and took out was installed in 1957/58. Still ran smooth as a sewing machine, only thing was it used R-11 also and the federal government has a replacement policy for all its buildings to phase those out, working or not. Now they have a York centrifugal that uses R-123 I think, they had to install monitors all around the perimeter of the boiler room at foot level to sense any freon leakage, also they installed self contained breathing aparatus on the wall for emergenc
Sounds like it starts like the 250 ton unit at my school. I have a video of it starting if you might be able to comment on it to see if it sounds like the unit at the court house. BTW, what was the unit replaced with?
The one you have on your site is or looks exactly like the one we had. I hated seeing the contractors cutting it up, it was a perfectly running machine with only a slight leak which could`ve been fixed, but the federal government was and is in a replacement process of chillers that use R-11 and possibly other freons. The one they installed I am pretty sure was called the York Millenium. Very similar startup but not as exciting and massive.
It has a similar startup but not as much staging up to speed and not as loud. Its definitely more of a balanced motor and quieter bearings and such, I don`t work there anymore but enjoyed the mechanical rooms very much, even though it was a pain sometimes cause I had to paint them too..lol. We had 18 air handling rooms, and one unit was suspended over the post office mail room with grating built around the air handler, probably 40 feet in length and 20 feet wide.
The one we had there was not VFD. But the one they replaced it with was a VFD. The leak detection system they installed in the boiler room was crazy, because of the dangers of R-123 there had to be sensors at floor level on all corners of the boiler room and in between, plus we had to have a self contained breathing aparatus installed on the wall by the exit door and we had to be trained in its use just to be able to legally work in the boiler room.
Heh, it looks like a ginormous turbocharger... and, well, kinda sounds like one too :D
hyvahyva 2 weeks ago
I love that awesome start up sound at 1:23!
kagome122885 1 month ago
Gave me the chills.....
dshmechanic 1 month ago
How many tons cooling capacity??????? Must be staggering
mdeonx16 1 month ago
is this chiller still running?
I purchase disabled and used chillers for their parts and I curently need a trane chiller,If this unit is no longer needed I would be glad to purchase
markstanley260 2 months ago
@markstanley260 As far as I know, this chiller is still in service. It was as of summer 2008, and there were no plans to replace it. I no longer work for this company.
W7ENK 2 months ago
Are there tigers in there?
simonspaz 3 months ago
@simonspaz Elephants. Two very pissed off elephants!
W7ENK 2 months ago
how many tubes?
scottselectraglide09 5 months ago
@scottselectraglide09 A lot!
W7ENK 2 months ago
Save some time, it starts at 1:21
ccraig412 5 months ago 2
@TorchwoodElectrics Its not a generator did you real the video ? its a chiller
67tr876 6 months ago
@W7ENK How do these things work? Is this a water chiller?
theduke502 8 months ago
@theduke502 Yes, it is a chiller for water. The cold water it produces is used for cooling A/C in a building air handler.
W7ENK 2 months ago
@W7ENK Hm interesting. I used to wonder what kind of A/C unit large businesses use. I imagine that the water goes to a de-humidifier process to separate moisture from the water no?
theduke502 2 months ago
@theduke502 I couldn't tell you on specifics like that, I have no idea. I'd imagine it would?
W7ENK 2 months ago
@W7ENK LOL, it's okay. I find large equipment like that pretty fascinating. What is even more fascinating is watching crane operators setting large equipment on top of tall buildings. Talk about getting goosebumps, lol.
theduke502 2 months ago
@theduke502 Hm very interesting. Thank you for the input ;)
theduke502 2 months ago
@theduke502 Big chillers like this use the same refrigeration cycle (on a much larger scale) that any other AC or refrigerator would.
rd1027 2 months ago
@theduke502 You can't separate water from moisture, they're the same thing. Though, in a system like this, the chilled water is sent through the cooling coils (like a radiator in a car, only it's giving off cold air) and the moisture in the air collects as condensate on the coils and drips down into the condensate pan and the drains.
mdeonx16 1 month ago
I love your videos! Do you know anyone who needs help with their handwriting? Just google "Chrissy Handwriting" and go to the videos page. Every letter of the alphabet is demonstrated on my channel. Thanks for friending me!
CallOTChrissy 8 months ago
How Many RTon is it?
conherent 9 months ago
@conherent No idea, sorry.
W7ENK 2 months ago
That looks like a 300 - 400 ton, R-11 or water type chiller? The largest I used to service was 300 ton. I've seen chillers up to 600 ton and that was a BEAST!!! Made my 300 ton'er look like a window-shaker AC unit in comparison.
DrGoodwrench64 10 months ago
Machine obviously had no load on it, thus the surging. Looks like the guy put in some hot gas bypass, after the fact of course. That's an esy way to wipe out a thrust bearing in the compressor.
PistolPete2 1 year ago
That thing is bad ass
MrMadden73 1 year ago
Are you wearing hearing protection? These things can get pretty loud...and you can go deaf with just a few minutes exposure.
R3MUS2007 1 year ago
@R3MUS2007 Of course, we were wearing earplugs. Without them, it was painful as soon as the elevator doors opened to the mechanical room!
W7ENK 1 year ago
@R3MUS2007 I've done work with some newly installed York Centrifugal Chillers at NYU medical center. And even after wearing the ear protection you ears ring for days. They're very loud. The loudest equipment I've ever worked with along with diesel generators.
85ZingoGTR 1 year ago
@85ZingoGTR York YKs and Carrier xxFA's are screamers for sure.
robmat813 11 months ago
@R3MUS2007 pardon lol
bobbj77 8 months ago
This must be what they had behind that DO NOT ENTER door at the old supermarkets. It would growl and shake the floor like that.
TheLightningStalker 1 year ago
@TheLightningStalker These things are most definitely not found in your local grocery store... Unless that grocery store happens to be about 500,000 sq. ft., lol
robmat813 11 months ago
I myself work at an ice rink that has a chiller made by Cimco, uses 3 open drive compressors in tandom connected to 480 volt 3 phase Lincoln electric motors. The unit uses Ammonia R717, and chills a salt water brine mixture, and boy I remember the first day I was in that room when 2 out of the 3 compressors started up, it was that exact sound that I heard here, and I could feel the ground below my feet vibrate. Now I don't look at ice skating the same way, lot goes into freezing the ice.
theonemam 1 year ago
I am here saying hello
HVACSmartSystems 1 year ago
Running a machine while it surges like that is not too smart. If its short of refrigerant due to a leak, even less smart, but probably NOT the reason it is surging.Check your tower temps, much more likely that they are set for too low a temperature....that or you don't have enough load to run the machine (assuming there is no hot gas bypass)...and mudbone...I hear you!
nabrxx 1 year ago
good upload .
.. and wish you many BTU !
asawosa 1 year ago
what a noise when start up
MRdetination 1 year ago
Our datacenter could use this
technogeek678 1 year ago
sounds like it needed some load. surging
canadaguy2112ca 1 year ago
This is whats call a Centravac. It runs low pressure with R-11 or the new ones \R-123. This chiller is surginging because likely it's got a leak. It makes that sound because the impeller is slipping in the vapor compression because of too much lift. Amperage goes down too to show this. makes the motor shaft lift up 1-3 thousandths and ruins the effeciency.
SockPuppetTheater 1 year ago
The hourly cost of running one of these units is 500 dollars an hour. This guy sweating this start up is a rookie. he should try starting a steam turbine. Local 94 baby!!!
nabrxx 1 year ago
@nabrxx Or try starting a steam plant on a ship after a trip out.
3Mudbone1 1 year ago
Hughes plant in El Segundo had 6 of these in central plant for the whole facility. One compressor would normally be enough during cool weather. Huge water towers outdoors. The system was installed around 1979. Do not know if it is still there. One day someone decided he would run one of the variable speed water pumps to full speed. There was a screech, a little smoke and all of the power shut down. Of course the phones lit up when the lab areas started calling in!
Xerox6085I 1 year ago
Love that sound at 1:23
hvasnick 1 year ago
@JBbulumiss Sveiks! :)
W7ENK 1 year ago
actually its a cvhb 1100{benchgrinder} from what i can see and its probably a wye delta.starter, and from the sound of it either it has air in it or the condenser water is really hot. ive rebuilt more of those than i care to count lol!!
LaSouth70 1 year ago
Holy crap, love the sound of that starting up. I'm guessing you don't measure that in BTU, or Tons. More like, Kilo Tons lol.
redsquirrelftw 1 year ago
ah the good old days. even with the chiller surging and everything. you would be surprised how much beating one of those can take. where i worked 10 years ago there was a 1100 ton chve the next design after this one and it had to be overhauled 10 years after installation. they ran the plant like a bunch of retards when i started there. 4 of 5 pumps on with a 3deg delta t at best it was fun watching stuff get torn up. i have alot of respect for how much abuse those trane machines can take.
cwake79605t4 1 year ago
NICE!! have not seen one of these old Trane in some time. We serviced one here in Puerto Rico. It must be the oldest unit on the Island..jeje. About 3 years now that I have not gone to the site. Everytime we went to start this unit we expected the worse, being so old and semi-hermetic (more fittings and gaskets) that thing filled up with air fast!! Once you got it loaded (working were she wanted) you can barely hear it. Good old unit. Great teaching tool for rookies on Centrifugal Chillers
LOWESDOLEO 1 year ago
That 3 phase start up sound makes me smile : )
codsixrules 1 year ago
what a beast
jkk20 1 year ago
FriscoDuck415 1 year ago
can you tell what size is this baby?
b15s8 1 year ago
where is the compressor? does it use gas or wat
joey8067 1 year ago
@joey8067
The two huge rotor chamber in the video make up the compressor. The motor sits right in the middle.
douro20 1 year ago
What is the hourly cost of running this machine?
theenforcr55576 1 year ago
@theenforcr55576 No idea. ~60A at 4,160V whatever that translates to.
W7ENK 1 year ago
@W7ENK
500hp, give or take a bit. That's about 250kw/hr, or maybe $10-$45/hr depending on the billing structure.
mgraveman 1 year ago
@W7ENK Watts is simply Volts x Amps, 60A x 4,160V = 249,600 Watts : )
codsixrules 1 year ago
@codsixrules Being that it's three phase, it's also times the square root of three, and being alternating current you arrive at the figure for volt amperes (432,320 va). That times the power factor- which is probably around 90 percent for motor that large- means the watts are 389kw. Divide by 746 (watts per hp) and multiply times a guess at efficiency- at least 95%- and you have 521 hp. Motors come in standard sizes of 500 and 600 hp, so this one looks like it's 500 hp. as ham W7ENK said...
realvanman 1 year ago
@W7ENK That is almost 333kW (60*4160*1.33). But that is its maximum draw most likely. Either way its using allot of juice.
lordtaw 1 year ago
@W7ENK so... 24.9 kw x 10 cents per kw?
$24.96 / hour...correct?
GrantLogan2 6 months ago
@GrantLogan2 Uhhh, I suppose so, sure? I have no idea.
W7ENK 6 months ago
@theenforcr55576
I calculate $ 24.96 in electrical consumption at $ .10 per KW/H
Is this off?
BlackCarMafiaRidaz 1 year ago
I noticed it was surging. Looks like the guy opened the hot gas bypass a
little bit. I'm surprised it didn't wipe out a thrust bearing while it was surging.
PistolPete2 1 year ago
Glorified drinking fountain
NorthernRefrig 1 year ago
where is this chiller at
joedavis317 1 year ago
whats the hp on that ? i love that 3 phase start up sound !
67tr876 2 years ago
2:17 Surging. Sounds like a pissed off elephant.
bugahabilly 2 years ago
What exactly is this thing?
WeedPatch71 2 years ago
It's basically like a giant air conditioner... more accurately, a giant compressor for an air conditioner.
W7ENK 2 years ago
@W7ENK More specifically it's a cross between a condenser and an indoor coil. The long tube at the bottom is the heat exchanger. It has 2 chambers inside. A hot side and a cold side. The cold side supplies chilled water. The hot side sends the heat removed from the water up to a cooling tower of equal tonnage.
ucw458 1 year ago
@W7ENK
im in training to work on this kind of stuff but on a somewhat smaller scale
mifan93 1 year ago
to be precise it chills water that is then plumbed thought the campus and used in air handlers, which are huge air conditioners that use this cold water to chill the air
camerahooligan 2 years ago
I'd hate to have to do a service call on that beast!
marshalljimduncan 2 years ago
Is this an ATL Start or a soft start?
kleetus92 2 years ago
I have absolutely no idea... sorry. It was built in the 1960s, and from what I remember, there was a 12,5KV || 4,160V transformer into a 4,160V switchgear with a massive contactor... that contactor fed the motor control circuit (big grey box on the left at the beginning) and a power meter. Now, it does have network control, which brings all the associated pumps online (you can hear at 0:12) before the unit starts, if that gives you any idea... I haven't been there in over 2 years now.
W7ENK 2 years ago
Noisy sob that's for sure... In listening to it a few times, I guess it is an ATL start unit. Thanks for the interesting post!
kleetus92 2 years ago
is there a demand limiter for this beast?
pclle 2 years ago
This is the same chiller I have @ work. Sounds exactly the same on start-up, but when it starts growling high pitched later on, I don't blame U for running.That would scare the sh*t outta me too. Never heard that before. Are you starting at 40% demand & working up to 100% using limiter selector dial or is it a VFD type limiter controled chiller? Starting it w/dial on 100% may cause it to growl like that.
Centravac. Our's was installed in 1970 when our building was built.
Cool vid.
FriscoDuck415 2 years ago
love the sound of a chiller starting up definetly way louder than the new turbocores
refrigerationgod 2 years ago
cool. across the line 4160. pretty nice. yea those double-enders and nice. pain in the ass to tear down. probably r-123 converted from R11, or R113, depending how old it is. definately a low pressure machine. no R-22 in that thing.
camburgprerunner 2 years ago
yea at my work we run 2 400 ton carrier evergreens.
TheChiller22 2 years ago
Also known as a "bench ginder". I'm sorry if others are upset about the discussion going on. I have a habbit of getting upset when people try to make claims that are inaccurate without any facts (mod# or ser#) to back up. Especially, when my expertise is called into question. I'm not trying to say I know everything, anyone in service that is decent knows this is impossible. Hope all of the reasonable people viewing this understand.
ts13a141 2 years ago
low pressure trane. double ender is what the old guys call em. i know where a very, very old one sits. it's smaller, but it looks basically the same. been told they were some of the best ever built. tough as a tank.
orange1872003 2 years ago
I just read all the comments....1776 is probably a chiller guy with lots of different applications under his belt. He does not convey this well as he probably inhales to much R-123. He is correct about all the high pressure units. He is also correct in the fact he agrees this chiller in the video is a low pressure machine. This is how we make our living...why fight about it. Too much ego
sharkfin2009 2 years ago
I agree with sharkfin2009.
littlefatzrow 2 years ago
Is it possible to list the Mod# of this unit to clear up all the speculation on this unit?
ts13a141 2 years ago
No speculation here....It is an R-11 or 123 unit just like you said. I never said this particular unit was high pressure.
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
What do you really do for a living?
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
With all the crap on YouTube which always are rated 5 stars of course by about a dozen buddies and you're trashing this cool video...And how did you get to know the word "scab"?
littlefatzrow 2 years ago
I am a union fitter
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
This is a cool video. It is not my intention to trash it. I will let it lie. Sorry to offend.
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
Union Chiller Service Fitter.......... For all that are wondering.... And, yes I love 123... lol
ts13a141 2 years ago
I don't work there anymore, haven't for over 2 years. I don't remember, and have lost contact with the guys there that would know about this machine. I was told it uses R-22 by one of the techs. If not, then I have no idea what it uses. I was just there to punch tubes and assist with bringing these things online in the spring. I'm not an expert at these things, but I posted this video because it was a big noisy machine that I found interesting. I had no idea it would cause such controversy.
W7ENK 2 years ago
i hate turbo chillers I've had so much bad experiences with these especially the york turbos!
GoldSeeker1012 2 years ago
Good lord...listen to her surge!
willymateu 2 years ago
Sounds like money!
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
thats not that big here in Melbourne Australia we have a 16 tone chiller
ry4n0007 2 years ago
i hate that sound.... every time i switch it on it's sound like they gonna blow up.... can chiller blow up???
iezham88 2 years ago
short answer yes and no.
the vessel cant because they have pressure relief valves.
but the motors can, its called a burn out.
ry4n0007 2 years ago
Trane = garbage. Carrier = good stuff.
meccaturbo 2 years ago
i agree mate.. carrier don't use r123 ..death gas
ry4n0007 2 years ago
I agree with you buddy. Trane chillers suck. R123 sucks. Carrier is the best.
meccaturbo 2 years ago
Sorry mate...they all kill you the same way...suffocation
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
we all have a nose and you can smell if a plant room is flooded with refrigerant, if you wanted to die from asphyxiation walk in. but the realistically and slow death is cancer caused from r123 its carcinogenic.
ry4n0007 2 years ago
.....you should read up on this. I don't think there have been any documented 123 cancer except in mice...although quite a few deaths have been attributed to asphyxiation. The only odor in 123 coming out of the chiller is the oil smell...otherwise odorless until it is too late.
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
sweeet
sharkfin2009 2 years ago
Bench Grinder = Good times
fungunner 2 years ago
Thanks for the vid, damn that things huge!
More350Power 2 years ago
what power is the motor
PorSiempreElMetal 2 years ago
As I read these comments and hear the operation, I'm forced to ask two questions: When was the last "full" leak check done on this machine and what are the hours and starts since last rebuild? This unit is surging due to air is my guess, therefore it really needs some help along with new R-11. Plus, you might want to leave the purge on during the winter if the leaks have become to extensive to repair. Plus, if this is a 70's or previous machine it's costing more money to run than replace.
ts13a141 2 years ago
look at the tag line's. Firstly: r11 has been phased out as a refrigerant for since 1996 as part of the kyoto treaty so where is the new r11 coming from? Secondly: Its R22 so a drop in could be used as r22 is going shortly or why not do a good job and retrofit? Thirdly: Leaving to purge if the system is open!!! Are you stupid? Glad i don't have to chase around YOUR recals at work! When the hell was the last time you worked on any sort of fridge system?
fretboardpyro 2 years ago
I don't know all the specifics, esp since I haven't worked at this place for almost 2 years now, but from what I remember about this machine, it uses R-22 (I mis-spoke in one of my comments and said R-11).
This machine is so old that it needs a LOT of love every year. The purge pump is too small (in my opinion) and cannot keep up with all the leaks, even tho we practically coated the entire thing with sealer every year.
Being so old, big and leaky, starting it was always a challenge!
W7ENK 2 years ago
Wasn't aimed at you fella but user ts13a141. Its a fine machine though and i'd imagine a real pain in the butt at times lol!
fretboardpyro 2 years ago
Oh, I knew who you were talking to there, I was just clarifying for the both of you.
And, yes, she was a real pig! I'm glad I don't have to service her anymore. I hated punching tubes anyway, and she had a LOT of them!!!
W7ENK 2 years ago
I hope you are not a chiller mechanic. There is no way that machine uses R-22. Trane never, ever, produced a R-22 Centrifugal. R-22 is a high preassure refrigerant, it would not have a purge if it had R-22. If a high preassure machine had a leak, it would lose refrigerant, not let air in.
This machine most probably uses R123, R11's replacement.
TRANE DOESNT HAVE HIGH PREASSURE CENTRIFUGALS IN THE USA!!!!
24pipewrench 2 years ago
Unless you count high pressure R-12 air cooled centrifugals
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
Thanks, pipe wrench... Some people talk without knowing even what they are talking about.
ts13a141 2 years ago
You are the king of this.
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
You must be a scab maintenance boy...stick to the toilets
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
There is also large tonnage trane r-12 water cooled centrifugal chiller in San Francisco at 1 Market Plaza. Last time I checked r-12 was High pressure. IN THE USA
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
R-12: In the US, no larger than 320 tons... Not large!!!! As for R-12 high pressure, does not have purge.... This one does... Plus, all of the R-12 machines in the US are air cooled... Do you think this is an air-cooled machine????
ts13a141 2 years ago
This is obviously a low pressure machine. I have seen large tonnage R-12 units in refineries with a purge...HP ammonia unit always have a purge. No it's not air cooled. The unit I mention in SF are 1500 ton r-12 centrifugals that are water cooled. You make blanket statements that are not fact. Are you more of a package unit guy. You surely have no experience in the industrial sector or you would not say things like you do.
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
this is news to me. what is the model number on that? please enlighten me
24pipewrench 2 years ago
Which comment?
1776usaalltheway 2 years ago
on the trane r12 centrifugal, i have never encountered a high pressure trane. do you know the model number on that?
24pipewrench 2 years ago
@24pipewrench CVAA and CVGF are both high pressure Trane centrifugals
robmat813 1 year ago
@robmat813
ok got me on the cvaa, there may be about 2 of those in the country....jk
is the cvgf offered in the united states?
24pipewrench 11 months ago
@24pipewrench Never seen a CVGF and have only heard about some CVAA installations. There was also an OCV that ran R-12, I think. By the time R-123 is phased out, everything will be magnetic bearing oil-less VFD compressors, so I don't think that we'll ever see the CVGF here, either.
robmat813 11 months ago
Is this a carnot/ reverse brayton cycle chiller ? It looks like it, two turbocompressor looking thingies linked together.
diymania 2 years ago
where's the purge pump? I don't see it. What kind of service do you perfrom on your chillers. Major or minor? do you tear it down, service vanes, impeller, bearings and seals?
Are you required to do annual refrigearant audits from the state?
SNL0907 2 years ago
Why did it surge? Loaded up too soon? Held it on manual? That chiller is humongous!
SNL0907 2 years ago
are you sure the muffler is on?
klasikindo 2 years ago
the HVAC industry will tell you that an R-11 machine, kept tight, is the best chiller ton to ton, and technicians will tell you R-123 is no where near as good a refrigerant.
We have 3 York 850's, 3 York 550 screws, that also double as ice makers for a 14,000 ton-hour thermal storage bank =)
bluecollarboiler 2 years ago
bluecollarboiler: wow, lots of tonage! what kind of facility do you work at?
SNL0907 2 years ago
dam thats loud ! i love it
67tr876 2 years ago
i've only installed the electrical for these machines. but it seems to me if there is that much air in the system they need to install more purge valves at various high points in the system and bleed it. the cavitation alone will destroy it along with all the pumps. 4 attempts is a bit much!
sw8741 2 years ago
why would that scare the shit out of anyone? sounds like a normal start up.
sw8741 2 years ago
It's so big, so loud, and so old - it sits on a suspended slab, and when it surges, the floor shakes. It's almost like an angry elephant on a rampage, and the squealing is so loud it's ear-splitting even through ear protection.
I guess its enormity is a little intimidating.
This was one of several start-up attempts over 4 days. We had to shut it back down when the surging became nearly constant. It's damn near impossible to purge all the air out of this thing after sitting all winter long.
W7ENK 2 years ago
I saw a newer Trane Centravac in the backround. when you run them both up on a normal day under normal operating conditions, which ones louder or quieter or do they sound the same? It's fine if you don't remember just wondering how loud the new ones are since the only centravac i'm used to is an old 250 ton unit at my middle school i'm attending in oregon city.
25HNA6 2 years ago
The chiller at my school does not instantly spool up like this beast, but it slowly ramps up to speed. And I know for a fact it does not have vfd. It sounds a lot like a jet starting besides the low hum.
25HNA6 2 years ago
you able to get a video of it?
Turbocharge1000 2 years ago
I already have one. Just uploaded it. I also have one of more mechanical parts in the mechanical plant the units housed in.
25HNA6 2 years ago
How Many MW of cooling does it produce?
The heat pumps at my work used for airconditioning produces 6 MW of cool water (4 C/39 F) and 9 MW of hot water (78 C/172 F) Sulzer compressors.
Do you use the heat on this one aswell?
McDiezel 3 years ago
I don't know how many MW this thing would produce. The heat was all expelled to cooling towers outside. We didn't run them in the winter for heating.
W7ENK 3 years ago
Quick question. Do you remember how the refrigerant was drawn into the evaporater? I was thinking that refrigerant moves through the chiller by just the force from the vapor refrigerant coming out of the compressor and into the condenser. Am I wrong or right?
25HNA6 2 years ago
What is exactly is surging?
amfan12 3 years ago
As it was explained to me, surging happens when the temperature difference between the evaporator and condenser gets too high, or if there's air in the refrigerant circuit, both of which can cause a sudden shift in pressure. That loud squeal is from the refrigerant "surging" in reverse through the impeller because of that pressure change.
Maybe someone else reading this could explain it better?
W7ENK 3 years ago
I decided to do a little bit of searching, and it looks like this only a problem on centrifugal compressors because they are not positive displacement
amfan12 3 years ago
As you said, centrifugal compressors are not positive displacemnt compressors, so when the discharge pressure gets to a unmanagable ratio to the suction pressure it rushes back through the volutes of the compressor. That's the intense 'scream' you hear a few times at 2:18 - 2:32.
chunkofwind 2 years ago
is that an air conditioner?
dieselducy 3 years ago
Basically, it is.
W7ENK 3 years ago
A very large one, yes.
ExplodingTeeth 3 years ago
looks like a 1200 to 1400 trane spool. probably runs on 4160 volts. Have 1 ot a plant that I work at. Also have a 1900 ton york. York is much better than Trane anyday.
kc5vgw 3 years ago
Whats wrong with Tranes?
25HNA6 3 years ago
Uhh, .......R-123!
teamkudzu 3 years ago
at my work we have one of these with 5 yorks of the same size
motorcyclehooligan69 3 years ago
but can you see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
guitar1111111 3 years ago
This unit is almost identical to the one that was in a federal courthouse I worked in. (Since Replaced). It was as I remember 360 tons. When the starter would slam shut in the electrical panel behind the chiller, you could feel it in the floor when it slammed shut, then the compressor would slowly spool up and finally hit its last high note and be in full speed mode. It was awesome being the one that got to control this unit and do daily checks on it. Any big work was contracted out to Trane.
bvick777 3 years ago
Yeah, these things aren't quiet by any means. When this pig was running, I couldn't be in that half of the mechanical room without earplugs - the scream was overwhelming!
This unit is 970 tons, R-11 built in 1964.
When she surges (you can hear it start to at 2:17 in the video) the floor would shake and you'd think the world was coming to an end!
Thanks for watching; glad you enjoyed it.
W7ENK 3 years ago
The unit at my school was installed in 1966. I have a video of it if you want to see it start. The video also showes the unit. It's like a little 250 ton sister to this unit.
25HNA6 2 years ago
The chiller that they cut up and took out was installed in 1957/58. Still ran smooth as a sewing machine, only thing was it used R-11 also and the federal government has a replacement policy for all its buildings to phase those out, working or not. Now they have a York centrifugal that uses R-123 I think, they had to install monitors all around the perimeter of the boiler room at foot level to sense any freon leakage, also they installed self contained breathing aparatus on the wall for emergenc
bvick777 3 years ago
Quite a lot of expense was involved just to replace a chiller that was running perfectly.
bvick777 3 years ago
Sounds like it starts like the 250 ton unit at my school. I have a video of it starting if you might be able to comment on it to see if it sounds like the unit at the court house. BTW, what was the unit replaced with?
25HNA6 2 years ago
The one you have on your site is or looks exactly like the one we had. I hated seeing the contractors cutting it up, it was a perfectly running machine with only a slight leak which could`ve been fixed, but the federal government was and is in a replacement process of chillers that use R-11 and possibly other freons. The one they installed I am pretty sure was called the York Millenium. Very similar startup but not as exciting and massive.
bvick777 2 years ago
Wait what does the new chiller sound like at startup?
25HNA6 2 years ago
It has a similar startup but not as much staging up to speed and not as loud. Its definitely more of a balanced motor and quieter bearings and such, I don`t work there anymore but enjoyed the mechanical rooms very much, even though it was a pain sometimes cause I had to paint them too..lol. We had 18 air handling rooms, and one unit was suspended over the post office mail room with grating built around the air handler, probably 40 feet in length and 20 feet wide.
bvick777 2 years ago
Did the new unit have VFD?
25HNA6 2 years ago
The one we had there was not VFD. But the one they replaced it with was a VFD. The leak detection system they installed in the boiler room was crazy, because of the dangers of R-123 there had to be sensors at floor level on all corners of the boiler room and in between, plus we had to have a self contained breathing aparatus installed on the wall by the exit door and we had to be trained in its use just to be able to legally work in the boiler room.
bvick777 2 years ago
PCV and CVHA,Bs are tough
Information4us 3 years ago