Shame on Pasadena Humane Society

[benjaminschwarz1]

No, Max. As a quasi-literate, you're obviously unfamiliar withe the import of the phrase "This correspondence is closed." After your last message, I looked at the videos you posted--I was especially struck by the one in which you're prancing about your living room. You strike me as a bitter, strange, and pitiful elderly man with too much time on his hands and not enough friends. I decided I can't waste any more time with this.

[max2right]

@benjaminschwarz1 You’re simply attempting to salvage a modicum of self-respect after realizing the position you took in defense of the status quo in Lower Arroyo Park was shown to be illogical and wrong. If you really considered this time wasted why comment again at all? Decided to waste even more time did you? You seem to not understand relevancy as your opinion of me is irrelevant to the issue just as in your opening comment your personal experience in the park was irrelevant.

[benjaminschwarz1]

I take your point, but I'm not a dog owner and I have been running in the Arroyo everyday for six years--and while I regularly see leash-less dogs, I have *never* witnessed a problem with a dog. I run into a very sweet and well-behaved leash-less pit mix daily and have never had a problem with him. I just hope you take the same attitude toward people who violate the speeding laws--after all, cars injure and kill far, far more people than dogs, leash-less or otherwise.

[max2right]

@benjaminschwarz1 Your personal experience is irrelevant read the signs. Lower arroyo is designated a natural park & wildlife corridor. Think about the danger 20 to 30 loose dogs a day poses to the creatures that live & use the area. Think about the rights of responsible dog owners with leased dogs that are literally chased away by the actions of the rude, inconsiderate & irresponsible dog owners. Are you also an apologist for traffic law violators because they haven’t crashed into you?

[benjaminschwarz1]

@max2right Max--You're not a very careful reader. You are also a bit intemperate. I ask precisely: SInce you are such a stickler for the law, I hope and assume that you favor the most stringent enforcement of speeding laws--after all, speeding by "inconsiderate and irresponsible" drivers is responsible for far more serious mishaps than are some unleashed dogs. And I am sure that you, yourself, strictly adhere to all speed limits laws. Again, I take your point about adhering to leash laws.

[max2right]

@benjaminschwarz1 I read very well. The tone of your comment is apologetic towards those that unleash their dogs day after day year after year. If you fully agreed with my point why then make the absurd comparison of loose dogs to traffic deaths. Intemperance is a virtue when defending my rights, the rights of others and the creatures living in the aroyo. “I take your point, but…” is an equivocation not an affirmation. Could it be that you're not a careful writer?

[benjaminschwarz1]

@max2right I write--and read--for a living, so the answer to your question is: No. And, again, you're a careless reader, because my taking your point is not the same as my agreeing fully with your point. So, Max, once again: Do you comply fully with all speed limits? If not, you don't believe all laws must be strictly enforced, but that this law, for some reason, must be more strictly enforced than other laws--and of course speed laws protect more people and animals than the leash laws.

[max2right]

@benjaminschwarz1 I’m greatly impressed. Your comparison is still absurd but, I’ll play your silly game. I do try to obey all traffic laws. I make mistakes sometimes however, I don’t speed, run red lights or stop signs or run down pedestrians day after day year after year and I do expect the laws to be enforced. Do you not see the difference here? You act as an apologist for the rude, inconsiderate and illegal behavior you see in the arroyo. You shouldn't take pride in that

[max2right]

@benjaminschwarz1 I see that you opted to end our conversation. It reminds me of what my dad told me as a teenager. “If you can’t stand the heat don’t start a fire.” Attempting to justify the breaking of laws is always a losing proposition. The Pasadena Humane Society is taking our tax dollars for a service required by contract that they do not give. It’s theft, a breach of contract and immoral. The society and director McNall should be held accountable.

[dfrydendall]

Hey, if anyone wants to go talk to these owners feel free to contact me.

[dfrydendall]

I hear you. The dog owners who have their dogs off leash have become a major problem. When I tell the owners about the law they always say "I thought they check in the morning." or some such nonsense. They KNOW they're doing wrong. We should go in force one evening and really get in their faces about this...

[max2right]

Responsible dog owners have a right to use all public parks. Five of my dogs have lived and died without my being able to walk or work them in Lower Arroyo Park without a constant barrage of loose dogs. Those days are coming to an end. One fine morning accompanied by a cameraman and wearing a microphone Im going attempt on-leash training sessions in Lower Arroyo Park. When the inevitable attacks come I will use pepper spray, my foot and a stick to protect my dog and myself.

[max2right]

The lawful and ethical thing that should be done is for the city to punish dog owners for leash violations and not have individuals punishing the innocent dog but, my city government has abandoned that widely accepted approach. It puts me into this awful position.

These boorish & irresponsible dog owners are used to having it there own way down there so I expect trouble. I would feel a bit more secure with an independent observer from the media there but, with or without Ill be there.

[animalreport]

Thank you for addressing this issue. I've been walking my dogs in the arroyo for 10 yrs and the culture of off-leash dogs and disrespectful owners is driving me away. It has become too dangerous---when someone started allowing his pit bull (recently adopted from PHS, ironically) to run off leash I finally drew the line. My dogs have been harassed many times by off-leash dogs while their owners stand by & blame me for having my dogs leashed. It's outrageous and no one is doing anything about it.

[max2right]

Please don't give up. Take actions to preserve your rights and the rights of all responsible dog owners.  Let every council member and the mayor know. Let Pasadena humane know. Pressure fron we that are responsible dog owners is the only way things will change.

[val44590]

I agree with dog leash laws 100%. It is for the safety of the dog, other people's dogs, dog owners, and children. I was walking just tonight at the lower arroyo seco and like this person states, there are 20-30 dogs off leash. As I jogged by (with my dog on a leash) this irresponsible dog owner with a black dog off leash & a child were walking and his dog runs up, cuts me off & ATTACKS ME & MY DOG!!! MY DOGS EAR IS SPLIT OPEN AND BLEEDING! Be responsible, keep your dog on a leash- its the law!

[max2right]

Thank you for the comment I hope your dog is ok and also hope you report this to Pasadena Humane and to your. councilmember. Irresponsible dog owners have taken over Lower Arroyo Park as their private domain for far too long and Pasadena Humane has turned it's back far too long .

[val44590]

I have written to both Pasadena Humane Society re: their lack of patrolling Lower Arroyo Seco for leash law violators & to council member Steve Madison. My dog is okay, but has a chunk missing from his left ear. I hate that he was injured & that the owner w/ the off leash dog just laughs when I yell to leash his dog, continues in complete ignorance, & takes no responsibility. Its sad, but I'm scared to return there. I live 2 blocks away & have been run out of my own community. Its just not fair!

[max2right]

Glad your dog is ok. Councilmember Madison knows of the loose dogs in the lower arroyo. I've made the entire City Council aware of the large number there daily. They seem not to care that responsible dog owners are literally chased from local parks by the irresponsible. Is is also unfair that Pasadena Humane is paid to patrol the "streets and public ways" and refuses to do so. It's our tax money. One would think city leaders would be making sure we are getting what we pay for.

[max2right]

The Pasadena Humane Society is stealing public tax money and filing false and misleading reports with the city to cover it up.

Every City Councilmember and the Mayor have been told.

I dare anyone to take me to court for saying that or putting that in print.

I have no fear. No one at PHS has the balls to stand against me on this issue. No city politician can claim not to know.

I've done my home work. I've got the facts. I know what's going on.

Damn I'm good.

[max2right]

There is nothing misleading about what i say. City reports confirm what i say is true. Your fear of truth will prevent you from looking at them but that doesn't change the facts.

[max2right]

fnieves4; I have a current copy of the PHS contract with the city. It reads exactly like i say it does. There have been no changes to the requirement that PHS patrol the city as i pointed out to you yesterday. None. Truth mattes to the ethical people of the society. I hope you will someday share that view.

[max2right]

Pasadena Humane is stealing public tax money and filing false and misleading reports with the city to cover it up.

I've said that publicly many times and I dare anyone to challenge that in court. I have no worries about that. No one at PHS has the balls to do so. No one at city hall has the balls to do so. I wish they did. Truth is a solid defense in slander or libel cases.

[fnieves4]

I would like to know what PHS has to do with this entire video. Pasadena PD is responsible for the actions of the owners and the owners are responsible for the actions of the dogs. PHS is not responsible for the enforcement of any city ordinances and if Animal control is not dispatched to the area, then they have no control over the situation since they have the same authority as the Police as far as Animal control. PHS DOES NOT enforce the law animal control is part of the police department.

[max2right]

In part the contract requires two officers between the hours of 8 AM and 5 PM to patrol our city. Think about how much of our tax money it takes to pay for that. PHS has not fulfilled that requirement for many years. Clearly that is theft of public money and every tax payer should ask what the officers we pay for are doing during that.time.

[fnieves4]

To reiterate:

PHS is not responsible for the action of dog owners and their pets Animal control is part of the police department and has the same authority as the Pasadena PD. If their is a descrepency please talk to the PHS. Animal patrols are dispatched upon request of the public not as an obligation. I work at the PHS and we do not mandate animal patrols around the city. Thank you

[max2right]

You havent read the contract. Youre basing you opinion on what youre told. Of course the officers will say its not their responsibility. PHS management will say its not their responsibility. That way the officers are freed from the work involved and PHS gets a windfall profit of our tax money for not having the expenses of providing the service we tax payers have paid for i.e. salaries for the officers and the expenses of providing and maintaining vehicles on the streets.

[max2right]

Remember I did not ask you to believe me. I suggested you read the contract. Unless you already had a copy of it its Obvious you have not done that. It does not seem that you are interested in the truth?

[max2right]

Please get a copy of the contract PHS has with the city. Its available through the City Clerks Office. PHS is required to patrol the "streets and public ways." The purpose of those patrols is animal control including issuing citations for leash law violations.

I was given such a citation years ago. I still have it along with the court transcript of the trial which contains my testimony, the testimony of the PHS officer and that of the lawyers and the judge.  Its priceless.

[max2right]

And i will repeat this: No entity be it school, hospital, church or humane society should be allowed to hide bad deeds behind the good that it does.

[max2right]

I have responded to your last comment. You can see it at the top on my comments. IF you dare that is. Truth matters

[andydsteele]

Well, I noticed that on the sign in your video posting the rules for the park it said "Pasadena Police Dept." on the bottom, but honestly I don't know who is responsible for enforcement. In the previous place that I lived I got a citation from a police officer for having my dog off leash. Overall, my impression is that animal control officers are more focused directly on the animals whereas the police are more focused on the people who are violating ordinances.

[max2right]

According to the city contract it is PH's duty to enforce the leash law and indeed that was the case until it just stopped patrolling the city in 1991.

What it did not and has not stopped is taking the taxpayer money it is paid for that service.

There is ample evidence in the public record to support that view and suggests that those paid to patrol here are routinely sent to surrounding communities.

[val44590]

The Pasadena Police Department is not responsible for writing tickets for off leash violators. It is the responsibility of the Pasadena Humane Society.

[andydsteele]

Yeah, this video is misnamed as it really has nothing to do with Pasadena Humane Society, which is a great organization

[max2right]

It has everything to do with Pasadena Humane.(PH) PH is NOT doing the job taxpayers have paid for. The parks and streets are full of loose dogs. Especially Brookside, Lower Arroyo and Victory Parks.

Check the contract PH has with the city then check the parks for loose dogs and you will see just how wrong you are.

Sure PH does good stuff but that does not excuse it from abiding by the terms of the contract, does not allow it to take our tax money for a service it does not perform.

[andydsteele]

You are right that PHS should be picking up stray dogs. My suggestions would be to call them (626) 792-7151 to let them know where to find the stray(s). Most of the dogs in your video appear to be with their owners (albeit off leash). The Pasadena police department is responsible for enforcing the leash law, so part of your beef is with them.

[max2right]

andy; Again I refer you to the PHS contract with the city. What evidence do you offer to support your claim that Pasadena PD has the responsibility for enforcing the leash law?

[val44590]

It is Pasadena Humane Society that is responsible for monitoring and ticketing off leash violators. That is why this video is about them.

[max2right]

It is Pasadena Humane that we tax payers pay to patrol the "streets and public ways" but a City Council Agenda Report called the required patrols non-existent. it is not humane to subject the wildlife in Lower Arroyo Park to hundreds of loose dogs each month. Shame on Pasadena Humane. No entity, hospital, school, church or humane society can be allowed to hide bad deeds behind the good it does.

[mapuche888]

I didn't see the dogs interacting with the wildlife and the dogs seem to be under the control of their owners. I thought you meant the dogs were running loose with no supervision. I don't understand your beef.

[max2right]

you defend violations of the leash law. Would you accept 20 to 30 loose dogs a day in your neighborhood, Victory Park, Brookside? Do you have a list of places where the leash law should not apply? Why?

Been to Lower Arroyo Park? You will see a large number of loose dogs morning and evenings. Do you understand prey drive? Animals have been chased & killed there.

The animals PHS deposits there daily are subjected to 100,s of dogs a month. Is that humane? Will you defend that?

[mapuche888]

I'm sorry, I still do understand what PHS has to do with owners letting their dogs off leash. Are you saying PHS releases dogs into the wild or are you saying they are responsible for enforcing the leash law. Your logic is still escaping me.

[max2right]

Clearly PHS is responsible for enforcing the leash law. PHS officers are in Lower Arroyo Park daily and they and McNall know exactly what's going on. They all look the other way. Why?

Taxpayers pay for patrols that the performance review of the PHS contract called non-existent. PHS takes the money but does not patrol the city as required. Additionally when someone at PHS realised that i was looking at their daily logs they started falisifying them. Easily seen if one looks.

[max2right]

sorry for misspellings.

[beckster2001]

I don't really understand this. It looks like private citizens are the ones letting their dogs off leash, so why is your complaint directed toward the Pasadena Humane Society?

[val44590]

The Pasadena Humane Society is responsible for ticketing off leash violators.