Josh McDowell: Proof for the Risen Christ - CBN.com

[shellybirdy]

some really good stuff here

[msjessypp]

some sweet info here

[TheDesertwalker]

Most christians = nutballs.

[infernvsnecrohag]

"people don't go to their death in support of a lie" no, but they go in support of a delusion.

People are good at fooling themselves, hell, you can go talk to entire families that have been abducted by aliens... and they actually ARE supposed eyewitnesses, not claimed eyewitnesses in 9th hand stories from copies of copies of copies of copies.

But we still don't believe in aliens.

[jerico641]

@forgivenat11

Sure, whatever; that's exactly why I said I'm thinking about trying it.  Nothing I'd write about would EVER require any concrete proof, and apparently people are lining up to buy the gibberish (no offense).

[jerico641]

Damn, I'm gonna start writing christian apologist books; I want to get rich as hell scribbling nonsense myself...

[RadarGuidedVermin]

@jerico641 Because you're an idiot, you'll never be rich. Get used to it.

[jesussaves11ful]

@DiscoRByrno most power thing you could ever begin to imagine. I messed around with some hard drugs here and there but im telling you right now, none of that could ever begin to compare to what its like when Jesus enters your life, and when he does you will finally understand what us christians have been talking about. if you want some actual litereal proof, just check out all teh prophecys the bible has predicted, over 500 so far have come true. just check it out on google or bing. God bless!

[jesussaves11ful]

@DiscoRByrno all your sins get washed away becasue of what Jesus did on the cross becasue he lived a perfect and sinliss life. and your right about one thing, no man can rise from the dead, but Jesus was no man, he was God come down in the flesh. But once you do this his spirit will come into yours and your spirit is no longer dead, and since we are spirits you will go from death to life. believe me i know from personal experience, and once he comes into your life you will know it, its the ..

[tjobv]

@DiscoRByrno

Assuming that God exists, then how could it be ´just silly´ if He could heal people. If He could not heal people, then He is obviously not God.

Assuming that He doesn´t exist, which is probably your view, no, it indeed is not possible that a person can rise from the dead.

But if He would exist, then it would make perfect sense that He could raise someone from the dead...

[jesussaves11ful]

@tjobv you say that logic proves the nonexistense of God. well appearntly your turning something down you have never read, or you would have read where jesus says " my words are SPIRIT and truth". he said his words are spirit, but you see until you come to Jesus our sprits are still dead because of sin. so if our spirits are dead but his words are spirit and truth, then the bible will NEVER make any sense. God made us so we can fellowship with him, but since we have sin in our lives we ....

[jesussaves11ful]

@tjobv we have been cut off from his presence, that why people before they come to God and accept him in there life they have no inclination if there is a god or not. but how can you if your spirit is dead. thats why Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross. He was God come down in the flesh and lived a perfect and sinless life, and in doing so made a transaction by taking our sins on himself. but once you accept him in your life as Lord and Savior, all your sins are washed away because of what...

[jesussaves11ful]

@tjobv My Bad ive been meaning to tell this to Disco RByrno.

[tjobv]

@DiscoRByrno

People cannot just rise from the dead? Are you serious about this? Wow, never heard about this, i they could! It always in Horror movies!

Obviously, someone rising from the dead is not possible, UNLESS, Jesus was resurrected by God himself(assuming ofcourse that there is one).

Your logic is weird, everybody knows that people cannot rise from the dead, UNLESS, Jesus was telling the truth about His nature.

[Kailoa36]

I wonder what Joshy was smoking or dropping when "He is risen" popped into his head.

[gotitans999]

3:05 "...to help believers" You mean to help them back up their claims which they already hold and apparently without evidence?

[gotitans999]

So the christian woman was asked why do you believe it? She answered, that's just what I believe... FAIL

[dallased25]

OMG!!! The tomb was empty?! So the most logical conclusion is that god did it! Not grave robbers! Also, 500 witnesses...that PAUL WROTE ABOUT! What were the names of these witnesses? Are you sure Paul didn't just make that up? How about you find some documented evidence that any one of these "Witnesses" Actualy existed and gave a personal Testimony that they did see Jesus....but you know what? THERE ISN'T ONE! NOT ONE! So josh Mcdouche....you are an idiot.

[gerudgutierrez]

@dallased25 Thats exactly what I think...these christians are extreme idiots without a doubt....

[doriamedina]

What's up with the fake audience?! LOL!

[eminescinescu]

" he is risen .. " :)) ...

[barnesen]

These guys are some of the worst Christians I have ever seen. I am embarrassed for them. Sorry everyone, Christianity is much better than these snake oil salesmen makes it out to be.

I love all the people who say "Yep, I believe it 'cause the Bible says so!" Losers!

[instereovideos]

Their "sidewalk interviews" aren't really making the case for "why rational people believe in the resurrection."

[spareaxe]

Jesus the Zombie...

[SithRage]

HA! Fake applause around 2:00 in.

[damaniseman]

This guy is just a fraud, for him to say that he was a non believer is a lie. It's obvious. ok on his first point about the tomb being empty, don't ever show this guy a david copperfield special. and on the second point, about the miracles, well he's just outdated and should be a muslim. buy his logic, Muhammed was performing miracles after Jesus.

[crabbieappleton]

I'm curious as to his sources. They all seem to be based on the Bible. Aside from the Bible, who said the tomb was empty?

[jdefazio000]

@crabbieappleton Jesus early followers started preaching in Jerusalem that Jesus had risen from the dead. Seeing as that is where Jesus was laid in his tomb, that movement would have not lasted a single day if the empty tomb was not a known fact for everybody. Simply produce the body or the show the tomb still occupied and the movement would have been proven false.

[crabbieappleton]

@jdefazio000 Unless one of them hid the body and lied. And a person who really, really wants something to be true can convince him/herself of anything.

And, frankly, we don't know much about what those early preachers were saying about Jesus, since things don't start getting written down until several decades later. How much got changed as Christianity evolved and orthodoxies and heresies clashed? 

[jdefazio000]

@crabbieappleton Jesus followers were proclaiming he had risen from the dead in Jerusalem where he was buried. That movement would not have

[Songediter2000]

@crabbieappleton The people who found the tomb.

[spacitydrummer4JC]

Flavius Josephus, who wasn't even a Christian, wrote about it in 'Antiquities of the Jews'.

[crabbieappleton]

@spacitydrummer4JC Not really. Jesus was already dead when Josephus was born, so all he's really doing is reporting that there were Christians and the Christians believe in certain things, so we've no eyewitness accounts from him either. And the Testimonium Flavianum is highly suspect.

[Kailoa36]

@spacitydrummer4JC  Actually, no, he didn't write about the resurrection at all. And what little mention of Jeus Christ there is in Josephus is considered by virtually all scholars to be forgeries.

[MamaMario13]

@crabbieappleton .............God?

[Moviefan2k4]

@crabbieappleton Numerous sources from the first-century Jewish community - both Christian and otherwise - have mentioned the resurrection. They either say it happened, or they say the disciples believed it happened. Also, the Sanhedrin could've crushed Christianity in the beginning, simply by parading Jesus' body around the city...but they didn't have it. It would take a lot more than 12 men to move the stone at the tomb, and if Roman guards fell asleep, they were killed. You do the math.

[crabbieappleton]

@Moviefan2k4 "Numerous" sources don't really the question though. What sources? Josephus, Tacitus and the others are either highly suspect, recognized forgeries/interpolations, or are merely reporting what others are saying.

If it would have taken more than 12 men to move the stone (where's the evidence for this?), how many put it there in the first place? Math, indeed.

[crabbieappleton]

@Moviefan2k4 And most scholars see "Christianity" only emerging as a separate religion after the destruction of the Temple (70 CE), so there would be no body. What would the Sanhedrin have been crushing? And why bother? There were numerous messianic sects of Judaism running around.

[crabbieappleton]

@Moviefan2k4 And, sorry, I can't resist. If it would take more than 12 men to move the stone, how did the women going to the tomb plan on anointing Jesus' body? I rather doubt the Romans (if they were really guarding the tomb) were going to help.

[spireman50]

@crabbieappleton Actually the Roman authorities would certainly have sanctioned the opening of the tomb for the anointing. This was Jewish custom and the last thing the authorities needed was a stand off between them and the Jews. Also, the anointing of the body would have further confirmed the death of Jesus.The Roman guard was put in place primarliy to prevent the robbing of the body...not to interfere with Jewish Ritual.

[crabbieappleton]

@spireman50 Allowing, I agree, but while they are not here to interfere with Jewish Ritual, they're also not there to enable it. Why would a group of Roman soldiers help to move this posited enormous stone for some Jewish women when it's not their job to do so? So, we're still left with how these women were going to move this massive stone.

[spireman50]

@crabbieappleton Pilate was under enormous pressure to quell the unrest in the region. That was why he was so anxious to appease the Sanhedrin. Also he acquiesed to the the burial of Jesus in the tomb before the setting sun as was the Jewish ritual at the time. He certainly was not going to refuse this harmless anointing ritual and risk further unrest. This anointing would have ended the matter peacefully. However instead of being the end....it was the beginning.

[crabbieappleton]

@spireman50 Oh, I don't disagree with Pilate's political difficulties, but since the Sanhedrin supposedly put Jesus to death, I cant' imagine they'd be agitating to have the body anointed, and I doubt Rome would want its soldiers so employed. Would soldiers be on hand to help with all the anointings?

And this still leaves the question of who was going to move the stone.

[spireman50]

@crabbieappleton Of course the Roman Soldiers would not have assisted in the actual anointing itself but they would have had instructions to facilitate,( including organising the removal of the stone), the Jewish protocol and ritual. Remember , Pilate was very aware of the unease and he did not wish to rock any political or religious boats. The three women would have carried out the anointing and the stone would have been replaced. Any potential crisis thus averted.

[crabbieappleton]

@spireman50 I'm not sure where you're getting your information that the soldiers would have had orders "to facilitate." You and I must have very different ideas on how Rome treated its territories, the same Rome that would raze the Temple in 70 AD. Pilate may or may not have been weak (we don't have enough information on that), but I sincerely doubt he'd want his own superiors to think that he was putting Roman soldiers to work for the Jews.

[Gnomefro]

@Moviefan2k4 "They either say it happened, or they say the disciples believed it happened."

External sources invariably report what Christians believe, nobody questions what Christians believe. The question is if it' accurate. Regarding the disciples believing Jesus rose from the dead, that's something we only know from the bible. Sadly, because the authors are unknown, and there is rampant copying going on, it's perfectly possible the entire thing is made up.

[bigguitar22]

Sounds like a mental illness to me? Some sort of psychotic break with reality. Again, this is belief not evidence. Without real evidence it doesn't matter how many people believe a thing - belief does not mean it happened. These guys clearly feel the passion with which they believe this nonsense is proprtionate to the strength of the evidence of the reality of Christ.. Self delusional crap they need to keep to themselves!

[prodsmash2]

How appalling. McDowell assumes what needs to be proved. Which doesn't count as historical evidence I'm afraid. Lord help us if we have to depend on McDowell (and now his son it seems) for Christian apologetics.

[ThieleM]

'there is nothing external that can trigger a hallucination'

Sorry guy that is flat out wrong. Extreme Heat, cold, radiation....all can trigger hallucinations.

[RayTech70]

@ThieleM Yes, you are correct: but for every person involved in such an event will not have the exact same hallucination. This was well documented in the Donner Reed Tragedy, you dork.

[ThieleM]

@RayTech70

What the fuck are you talking about. My point was that hallucinations can be triggered by many things. I made no comment on the risen christ...nor do I really care.

There is no evidence outside the bible that talks about a resurrection in any other medium...one of the gospels even talks about others getting out of their graves and walking about. Zombie infestations WILL attract the attention of people other than christians.

Have fun in your delusion

[RayTech70]

@ThieleM As usual, the atheist can't debate or even discuss a topic like this without slinging expletives. You won't go far in life, doing that-- secular, religious, or otherwise. You need to grow up.

[ThieleM]

@RayTech70

I'm not an atheist you douchebag

[Harizl]

@ThieleM

lol, he clearly is so grown up that he cannot put the message before the medium.

[RayTech70]

@ThieleM Sorry to call you "dork" I didn't mean in negatively. I need to watch that. There's no reason to fight over this. About Donner Reed: they had multiple hallucinations, each one markedly different than the other. That's the point Josh McDowell is making regarding the 11/12 who had "hallucinated" as well as the 500 who saw Him after the resurrection.

[ThieleM]

@RayTech70

Too late prick. If yo miss someones point then go off on them you are a dick.

Fuck you

[ThieleM]

I remember sitting in my dorm room and saying "I need a hummer"



[bigboy45454545]

Wouldn't the world be a better place if Pat Robertson just died?

If you Google "evil hypocrite" for images, Pat's picture pops right up.

Squinty eyed old bastard.

[Bycoon]

ok imagine, lol. thats all i got to say, u do have some good arguements, but ones with holes in them. Also, your arguing on nothing that matters. So what if someone saw a sunrise and a sunset? Your missing that there is a God that decided to come down from heaven and to die for you. Romans 5: 8 "but God demonstrates his own love for us, while we were still sinners Christ died for us

[019807022]

Its really fun to read all these messages. All the bible scripture kunk fu. I just never understood why people get so offensive about a difference in a theological opinion.

[bluebyte101]

Agreed

[jazer120605]

go,go,go,dr.josh mc dowell,he is a christian evangelical faith defender.

[Imaginefree69]

The Bible says that humans are made of dirt.

And that snakes and donkeys talk.

And that insects have 4 legs.

And that bats are birds.

And that the earth is flat.

And that the sun revolves around the earth.

I don't think we have to look very far

to "prove" the "truth" of the Bible.

[DaemonAnt]

No, what has happened is this: you have blatantly and ignorantly twisted the words of the bible to make it sound ridiculous. If you are going to quote it... then quote it. Don't twist it in the hope that you can make it look bad.

[Imaginefree69]

Step up to the plate, Daemon.

Insults and accusations are a dime a dozen.

We're not in church now,

so we need actual facts.

If you think I've posted something inaccurate,

pick up your Bible and correct me.

I don't post anything I can't support with scripture.

[veritaslogos]

its ur burden to bear. if u think the bible says those things, quote the passages?

[Imaginefree69]

Sure, no problem.

I was just waiting to see if your other insulting Christian buddy

was going to step yup to the plate.

Evidently he is not,

so here ya go.

(Don't forget to say "thank you"

when I have fulfilled your request):

[Imaginefree69]

HUMANS MADE FROM DIRT: The bible says humans are made from dirt. Genesis 2:7, 3:19 Or that man was made from dirt and woman from his rib. Genesis 2:21 - 24 Depending on which version of Creation you read. Science tells us that the ocean is the womb of life on earth. As neither of us was there to observe the process, let's look and see what humans are really made of: Hmmm... Nearly all salt water and a few minerals. Sea water.

[Imaginefree69]

TALKING SNAKE: "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. Genesis 3:1 - 6 TALKING DONKEY: The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?" Numbers 22:28 - 30 INSECTS HAVE 4 LEGS Leviticus 11:20-23 "every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four; the locust..the beetle..and the grasshopper" BATS ARE BIRDS Leviticus 11:13-19 "among the birds; the eagle, the owl, the bat"

[Imaginefree69]

FLAT EARTH IN THE BIBLE:

Isaiah 40:22 says the earth is a CIRCLE (Hebrew CHUWG).

Circles are flat, see any dictionary.

(DURE is Old Hebrew for "sphere", but Isaiah used CHUWG)

Daniel 4:10-11a tree that is as tall as the heavens

can be seen from everywhere on the earth

Matthew 4:8 has Jesus viewing the whole earth from a tall mountain.

Revelation 1:7 says every eye will see Jesus coming in the clouds.

Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation all require a flat earth.

Well, either flat or bowl-shaped.

[Imaginefree69]

SUN REVOLVES AROUND EARTH: The Bible says "The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hurries to his place where it rose." Ecclesiastes 1:5 It says "the sun stood still" and "the shadow of the sun moved back ten degrees" and then it says THAT means the sun went UP by ten degrees. 2 Kings 20:9 - 11 It says "O sun, stand still over Gibeon..." The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. Joshua 10:12, 13

[Jordanicolass]

6:37 that is vudu thinking !! haha ! good one !

[electricguitarplayr]

for all who dont believe ill be praying for you

[vlunney]

fact:

the sanhedren met ONCE a month to handle official business and never would have violated passover.

fact:

there was never any tradition of releasing prisoners.

fact:

the jews were allowed 5 ways to kill according to the mishnah and roman law. they only could not CRUCIFY but they could 1) stone, 2) hang 3) behead 4) press 5) throw off a high place.

fact:

anyone stoned had to be hung and buried THAT DAY or he was cursed by god.

fact

acts 5:30 that the jews " slew and hung from a tree"

[electricguitarplayr]

@vlunney the sanhedren probably called a special meeting and the jews didnt kill jesus the romans did

[smaakjeks]

Still waiting. Eternal torture. Good or bad? Who knew this was such a tricky question?

Rev 2:22 -23 (our good friend, Jesus meek and mild has this to say about adultery)

"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

[riseofatheism]

The only evidence written in the Bible of the resurrection is an empty tomb. Wow. We learn something from this. Empty tombs are evidence of gods. In my opinion, this would also mean that empty Italian Restaurants are evidence of the flying spaghetti monster.

[sandbar3000]

7:57 YES. This is what non-believers do NOT get. God WANTS us to live with HIM forever!

[smaakjeks]

@sandbar3000

Not according to the Bible he doesn't. If God wants everyone to spend eternity with him, there would be no hell.

[sandbar3000]

You do not understand God's character do you? Sin MUST BE paid for. It is not free. It has a price. If we do not accept the gift of God (which is Christ and what HE DID) then WE pay for our sin ourself. The Bible is black and white. Make no mistake about it.

[smaakjeks]

I don't deserve to be tortured forever. Do you disagree? Do you think finite crimes (crime meaning simply not believing in the right gods) deserves infinite punishment? And punishment to what end? Not correctional punishment, because there's no way out of it. God wants to torture me forever for not being a sheep following blind belief out of fear. Is that justice? What do you think?

[sandbar3000]

We ALL deserve hell. WE are sinners and sin must be paid for. God in HOLY, we are not. It is only by the grace of God that I am saved.

It is not blind belief. Say what you will. I have the power of God with me. II Peter 1:21 For prophecy came NOT in old time by the WILL OF MEN, but HOLY men of God spake as they were moved by the HOLY Ghost.

If you read ANYTHING other than the King James Bible - you are reading a perversion of the Word of God and those are books of the devil.

[smaakjeks]

You didn't explain how finite crimes deserve infinite torture. Please tell me how that is just and loving. What purpose does it serve when there is no getting out of hell once you end up there? It is torture for the sake of torture. How is it just? How is it loving?

[riseofatheism]

Do you understand god's character? If you answer yes, then answer this question. How do you know god's character?

The Bible? The Bible was written by men. What if they lied? What if they were just writing it for fun? What if they were wrong? A lot of Christians distrust men, in things like science, education, government, because these are wordly things. However, the Bible was written by men, and you trust that whole heartedly. And the evidence suggests over and over that it is inaccurate.

[sandbar3000]

You are entering a spiritual warfare with me and this means I will bring you before my Heavenly Father. This is NOT a debate in the natural world, but of the supernatural world.

Read the King James Bible and stop reading perversions of God's Holy Word. STUDY the Bible. Don't just read it once. STUDY IT.

Ephesians 6:13-14 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all to stand. Verse 14 ---->

[sandbar3000]

Eph 6:14-17 Stand therefore, having your lions girt about with TRUTH, and having on the brestplace of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preperation of the gospel of peace; And above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the WORD OF GOD:

I told you this is a spiritual warfare, you asked for it. .

[sandbar3000]

And WHY OH WHY are you on THIS video? This is a CHRISTIAN VIDEO. OhI know why!

You are not looking to just 'Survive', you are searching for the TRUTH. The word 'FACT' is not even IN the King James Bible, However the word 'TRUTH' is found in the Old testament 117 times and 117 times in the New testament.

May be you should read all 66 books of the King James Bible, study it for about a year and then get back to me.

[riseofatheism]

Nope. I watch it for the lulz. It's funny to see people try and prove that a mythical, fictional tale written 2000+ years ago about a guy who died for you to live in an afterlife for which there is no evidence except a tingling feeling in your gut that tells you so, is really fucking funny. HAHAHA

[exconguitar]

what a weak character trait, from a weak and especially IMAGINARY god.

[sandbar3000]

You don't understand the LOVE that Christ had. God his father turned his BACK on his only begotton son. Why? Christ became SIN for us. Before Christ went to die, he was SINLESS. No sin in him. He is 100% man and 100% God.

Now, you can deny this all you want. But God loved us by sending HIS SON to die for us. Either a person accpets the free gift, or they do not. It's that simple - simple enough for a child to understand. This is why God made it so simple.

Don't try to make it harder.

[smaakjeks]

God sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself so he could forgive humans for something he knew they would do all along. Sounds like sadomasochism to me. If God wanted he could just forgive. There is no need for a blood sacrifice unless God wants there to be one. But, God loves the smell of blood, so I guess that's the way it has to be. I want no part of it, though. The god of the Bible is an immoral bully.

[sandbar3000]

I've heard this before. That is not in God's nature. You do not believe in a personal God that relates to us. I do. If I believed in some odd sky daddy, then perhaps he would do as you said. But my God is a personal God that relates to man and he revealed himself as the person of Christ.

I can not change your mind. The holy spirit will need to work on you.

[smaakjeks]

Provide me evidence of any gods and I will be compelled by my intellectual honesty to believe in gods.

The holy spirit has not yet seen fit to provide me with evidence either. No wonder then that I will burn in hell forever. You didn't answer my question. Do you think I deserve to be tortured forever, despite leading a good, lawful, moral life?

[sandbar3000]

a long long long time ago you believed in a God. But the public school brainwashed you out of thinking about him. May be even your parents teached you the same .Ecclesiastes 12:1

REMEMBER now they Creator in the DAYS OF THY YOUTH, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them.

Psalms 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God, it is he that made us, and not we ourselves, we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

[smaakjeks]

Norway has a state church. Consequently we sang prayers before meals and learned about Christianity in primary school. My parents have not pushed their views upon me. I had to ask them what they believed. Another pair of wrong assumptions. I appreciate the assumption that I was brainwashed, too.

Why are you quoting the Bible? The Bible holds no divine truth as far as I have seen. You're better off convincing me why there is a god and why the Bible is the correct incarnation of it.

[sandbar3000]

The Bible is the Word of God. Why do I post scripture? Hebrews 4:12

For the Word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth of my mouth; it shall not return void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

More. .

[smaakjeks]

How do you know the Bible is the word of God?

[swimtj59]

How do you know it isn't?

[sandbar3000]

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

I answered your question about suffering. We ALL deserve hell since we ALL are sinners. It is ONLY by the grace of God that I am saved. It is not of works, lest any man should boast.

[smaakjeks]

No, you didn't answer in full. Do you agree that torture for sake of torture is a good idea? It is just and loving? WHAT DO YOU THINK? Please answer me or I'll assume you have no answer, because deep down you know it's evil as hell (no pun intended) to torture someone for sake of torture, for all eternity. You KNOW it's evil and it's a good thing too. We are far more moral than the god of the Bible.

[sandbar3000]

We all deserve to be seperated from God. If we do not accept him in this life time, we go to hell. Hell is were unsaved sinners go. Does not matter how good one is. If you call it punishment, fine. It is hell. It is a place void of light, void of love and void of God.

I answered your questions three times now. I can't help it if I didn't give you the answer that you wanted me to give. I am not your little robot. Of course you ignore the scripture! You don't want to be CONVICTED of sin.

[smaakjeks]

I'm going to try one. more. time.

IS TORTURE FOR SAKE OF TORTURE JUST AND LOVING? YES OR NO.

Why is this hard to read? I don't know how to make it simpler.

No, I ignore scripture just like you would ignore scripture from the Quran. Not out of fear of being convinced (what the heck kind of sense does that make??), but because it's just words to me.

[smaakjeks]

Jesus is alive, you believe so yourself, right? So God didn't really give anything except himself a hard on of self righteousness, I guess. Jesus sacrificed a weekend. I would indeed sacrifice a weekend in Jerusalem to save my friend's life. Biig whoop. I have explained why the Jesus/God self sacrifice is silly and sadomasochistic already (1 week ago). You have failed to refute that. I have explained why I refuse to accept Jesus' sacrifice on my behalf. You have failed to refute that, too.

[sandbar3000]

Um, you said this 17 minutes ago. "I'm going to try one. more. time.

IS TORTURE FOR SAKE OF TORTURE JUST AND LOVING? YES OR NO."

SO, why can't you LEAVE THIS PAGE? You can't. I answered all of your questions, you just don't LIKE my answers. I'll let you have the last word dude.  God will have the last word with you when you die.

[smaakjeks]

Good heavens.... It's not sinking in is it? I DID NOT ASK WHAT GOD DOES OR SAYS. I'm asking what YOU think of infinite torture. What do you think? Is it a good idea? You MUST have a position one way or the other. Either you think it's just a grand old idea, or you think it's evil, or perhaps you see benefits and drawbacks. But a view you must have. And it's very telling that you won't tell me what you think. As I said, I think you agree that eternal torture is wrong. Am I wrong?

[sandbar3000]

There you go again. You can't let it go can you?

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou be like unto him.

Proverbs 14:7

Go from the presense of a foolish man, when thou percievest not in him the lips of knowledge.

I agree with GOD. I'm a Christian. You should have known my answer from the beginning.

[smaakjeks]

So you think eternal torture is just and loving? Wow. Okay. The natural question then is HOW is it just and loving? Is it because God says so? Might makes right?

[sandbar3000]

now, go to my videos and watch them - if you can stand to watch them.

[sandbar3000]

And I just prayed for you. This is a spiritual warfare, I told you. Yet you keep on and on and on and on posting on this video

Oh, and I made over 300 videos- about 70 of them are on Bible studies. I did one a women in the church as well. May be you'd take the time to listen to them and get off of this video.

You may not like my video on women in church, but I address it in my video. NEXT.

[smaakjeks]

Prayer is silly. According to your book, God's will happens anyway. So by praying you are interfering with God's plan. What sense does it make for the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent creator of the universe to pay any heed to some random person praying for atheists? We're going to hell anyway according to the Bible, because not believing is the one sin that grants no pardon. I'm doomed because of my intellectual honesty.

[sandbar3000]

You came to his video on your own accord and now look what you got! You asked for it ALL.

[sandbar3000]

Um, I heard this all before. You think I have not heart this before? Wow. Get on your knees. See how condescending that is to you? That is what you are doing to me.

You are a member of the Rational Response Squad aren't you? You've seen the films they hand out. This is why you DENY GOD. You hate him.

[smaakjeks]

I'm not a member of RRS. I don't watch their material. I don't hate things I don't believe in. That's 3 assumptions, all wrong. I don't deny gods. I lack sufficient evidence to be convinced that there are any. The relationship you have with all other gods humans have thought of is the relationship I have with yours. I just believe in one less god than you.

[sandbar3000]

Again, you say the same thing that all atheists say. Tell me something that I have NOT heard from your crowd.

[smaakjeks]

How about you answer my question about your views on torture? Stop weasling! I answer ALL your questions and points. You just respond to what you feel like.

If you have heard the responses to your argument (ex. "you deny god because you hate god"), then why do you make them more than once? The rational response to such a question will always be the same! If you ask people what 2+2 is, don't be bored when the answer always comes back 4. Are you hoping I'm not clever enough to respond properly?

[sandbar3000]

You keep on posting on THIS video, I'm going to keep on giving you scripture.

[smaakjeks]

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't quote the Bible. I'm just saying it serves no purpose. I ignore them. If you're fine with that then knock yourself out. Hm, maybe I should bring some quotes, just for balance?

1Cr 11:7 (KJV)

"For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man."

Etc. with more women is to man as man is to god, for those who care to look it up.

[sandbar3000]

wow 2:35

[exconguitar]

wow, talk about two nutcases.

[sandbar3000]

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

[exconguitar]

you can't honestly tell me that you take thse two seriously? If so, stay the fuck away from my children.

[NotAnotherGeneration]

If Josh McDowell personally live the message he gives in his books he would have been a 32 year-old virgin on his honeymoon!

See: tinyurl com/yg96tu5

[TheCjman93]

Bullcrap. Don't you know Josh McDowell wasn't always a christian, he had an ugly past.

[exconguitar]

Exaclty why he's a fuckin nutcase.

[benadam74]

Jesus is not [a] god, angel or anything apart from the HUMAN Son of Only True God [Jn 17.3]

[exconguitar]

Bullshit.

[silentfaun]

No, prove the bible first without using the bible to prove the bible. This isnt The Thinkers "I think therefore I am" or in this case the bibles "I am written therefore Im true" L.Ron Hubbards books are written, should we believe in those until we can disprove them? Funny thing faith, the whole idea is with proof, there is no faith; very convenient. Makes it oh so easy to wriggle out of being pinned down to facing basic realities that conflict with something you want to believe in.

[tiggster13]

Josh pointed out that without the resurrection christianity is bunk and the bible is a work of fiction. But all of his evidence comes from the bible.

Throw out the bible and see what evidence you have left.

And, if you can prove the resurrection without the bible, then how can you be sure it was your god that resurrected Jesus?

[ach005]

Disprove the Bible first, then you can "throw it out."

[tiggster13]

My point, which you don't seem to grasp, is that, if you exclude the bible first and then look at all the evidence for the resurrection that you have left, you will find zero direct evidence of the resurrection. And according to the bible, if there was no resurrection then the bible has been disproved.

Find evidence for the resurrection (without the bible) then you can use the bible as evidence for jesus.

Good luck with that.

[druizsr]

Jewish history records state that there was a Jesus of Nazareth! And that is a non biblical reliable source! Especially because they don't believe he is the son of God!

[tiggster13]

Jewish history states that Jesus was a faker, a fraud and an imposter. They specifically show how he did not fulfill the prophesies of the old testament and could not have been the christ.

Now, if you think they should be trusted, I'll except that there was a jesus if you admit that he wasn't the christ.

[druizsr]

Even the bible say's his own didn't accept him! I was just simply pointing to the fact that he exists, and there's records proving it. I don't think you should trust anyone But Jesus! Find out for your self. I Pray right now in the name that you reject, Jesus Christ that you have an encounter with him! I also pray that God will place Real Christians in your life that bug you, and bug you, until you have no choice to accept he's real and want's relationship w/ you!

[tiggster13]

If the records you are referring to prove that there was a jesus then they also prove that he wasn't the christ. If they were lying about jesus by denying his divinity then how do we know they weren't lying when they said he was real?

And I've been waiting for god to bring REAL christians into my life for 20 years but all he ever sends me is posers like you!

[druizsr]

The bible say's taste and see that the LORD is good!

If you haven't tasted him don't tell me he's not good. I also pray that Jesus gives you the measure of faith! Instead of trying to prove he's not real or the Massiah, be open to the fact that he is and you will find truth! He's waiting for you my friend! I will never deny the faith that lives in me!

[tiggster13]

I have yet to taste anything so I can only say that your lord doesn't exist.

I have been open to jesus all my life. I was raised as a christian and didn't question his existence until I really began reading the bible and listening to what was being said and done in the name of god. My last prayer to god: "Hey, if you want me, you know where to find me." So far, no response.

And I don't deny your faith, just your ability to reason.

[lotanddaughters]

"The Bible says..."

Yeah, it says a BUNCH of stupid bullshit. Anyone who believes in it is a brainwashed FOOL.

[chuytony7]

one thing is to say I can't believe because there is no evidence.....and a different thing is wishing there was no evidence or even if there was, I would choose not to believe because my lifestyle wouldn't let me.

[hexusziggurat]

There are many who have this philosphy. "I choose not to believe because of my lifestyle" One cannot self-indulge in lifes' debaucheries without having regrets if there is to be a concept of punsihemnt afterwards which delegates that their lifestyle choices were indeed wrong and proven to be so.

[freespirit2525]

Josh McDowell before becoming a Christian did not believe that there was even a god. He came to a point in his life were he felt that he needed to have some kind of faith. He researched and found factual evidence that Jesus Christ was alive, died on the cross and was raised from the dead. Read his book. Listen to his testimony.

[Philos2006]

There is NO independant, historical,evidence. NONE.

[unityallusa]

who would you suppose should be the independent, witness........ Had you read his book..... or are you just SCOFFING!!!!!!  What's your beef!!!?????

[tiggster13]

How about someone who wasn't a christian or was redacted by christians.

[unityallusa]

Like you

[tiggster13]

Sure, why not?

If we had an account from somebody who made it plain that he/she wasn't a believer and was highly skeptical of the claims made by jesus and the apostles and yet still listed the events that took lace in the bible as having actually happened, then that would be an unbiased witness.