you must know elder scrolls: arena and daggerfall but didn't sayd a word about them. arena and daggerfall was revolusonery (skills level up over time in daggerfall arena is xp based level up with no skills.) propeply best rpg series ever that don't mean console rpg are bad. but i don't like final fantasy.
@Osmodaful Final Fantasy II had a system for skills leveling up. That was 1988, long before Elder Scrolls. Elder Scrolls main claim to fame is that the origin of faction / reputation systems comes from Daggerfall, but was refined into it's present form by EQ's design team.
Interesting and correct information however, you will have to accept the widely used terms to explain media as they are updated with the current times, this is something I have accepted and I think people will have to soon too.
@bucketmonkeys I don't have to accept it. That's why I made these videos. Just because something is popular doesn't make it right. There are a lot of terrible things that have been popular and they've only been discarded because people spoke up.
@jfreedan@jfreedan I agree with you however the term people use to describe a game is hardly a terrible thing. Also, do you know of any good rouglelikes that have come out of japan? I really enjoy them and it would be interesting to see some new faces!
@bucketmonkeys Uh....I've reviewed roguelikes made by Japanese developers on this very channel, Unlosing Ranger Vs Darkdeath Evilman, Torneko the Last Hope and Azure Dreams.
regarding the controller. All PCs had keyboards and all NES had gamepad. But do you think many NES had keyboards? This is the only reason why DQ uses controller. Keyboard is better on the long run though, because you memorize the letters. It is easy to remember something like (G)et or (P)ush, and much faster to type. And you will use only a handful of spells in the long run.
I agree though that DQ is a more advanced design, though simplified, which is not a problem.
@nallenthepuh I'm not sure what your point is. I reviewed the NES port of Wizardry in the very next video. Do you mean to imply that Wizardry was originally released on the NES? If so, no, it was not originally released on the NES.
I just call them RPG's, or crpg's for computerized or console role playing games- people know what I'm talking about, and nobody I know plays board games so the distinction needs not even be made for me. Makes more sense than 'light'...given the increasing complexity of the systems in some series over the years. Some are anything but 'light'.
@sonbuhitsunei Just because -you- and your friends do not play tabletop RPGs doesn't mean others don't either. rpg dot net happens to be a tabletop gaming website, so it is certainly common for many people to use "rpg" as meaning the tabletop ones. The distinction between computer RPGs and tabletop RPGs does needs to be made to clear up confusion so people know what I am talking about. As for the complexities of modern computer RPGs, I agree but I'm just explaining the meaning behind the labels
@jfreedan I agree that the distinction needs to be made- I just mean that among the people I associate with, when I say rpg, they know what I mean. I'll specify if it's something otherwise, or just call them 'cprpg', 'mmorpg', 'crpg' or something of the like. Just don't like the term 'light' as it sounds a bit insulting to those of us who play console based rpg's - as if we're simpletons who need things made very plain for us (have they played some of these games? lol)...but that's just me. :)
dragon quest is more like wizardry and ultima combined then just ultima 3. It uses the turn base, first person battles from wizardry and the top down view and towns from ultima. all in a lighter much user friendly game
I would also add Portopia Serial Murder Case, a 1983 adventure game by Dragon Quest's designer Yuji Horii. Portopia was hugely popular in Japan but remains largely unknown in the West.
It was Portopia that provided the interface and storytelling elements used in Dragon Quest, while Wizardry contributed the first-person battles and Ultima contributed the overhead exploration elements.
I agree with you completely but I don't really think calling it a JRPG counts as racist, for it to be racist it has to be derogatory in that it puts down the race as a whole as if they are inferior to another race. or if many people found them unappealing and referred to the games as JRPG's in that western RPG's are superior, like "oh it's just another cookie cutter JRPG that's linear and that western RPG's are superior to. and whatnot.
I feel like your videos like this would be slammed less if you didn't come across as so angry and rude. Showing your anger leads to people thinking you're insecure on the subject. Being insecure on the subject implies a biased undertone. A biased undertone negates an objective stance. Maybe you weren't going for an objective stance, but it's pretty clear that you tend to favor what people call 'JRPGs' over what people call 'WRPGs', which makes your point hard to take seriously.
@LeoCastell4 The only preference I have is for good games. It doesn't matter what genre the game is or who made it; if it's a good game, I'll like it. My show just happens to be oriented toward computer RPGs and the games I review are whichever ones I want to talk about. I've been trying to focus on games that aren't well known or at least don't have a lot of other people making video reviews about.
@jfreedan I understand that and commend you for going for niche appeal, but when watching through your videos I couldn't help but notice a trend. In your collection videos the vast majority of your video games are what people would call 'JRPGs' as are most of the games you have reviewed.
@LeoCastell4 I've mentioned this before, but I've been having to re-assemble my game collection almost from scratch as I had sold the collection I had from growing up a few years back. The collection went for a few thousand dollars on eBay, so I had a large library of games. I also haven't had a working PC until recently (and it is a seven year old laptop running XP).
@jfreedan Not only that, but whenever I've seen you need to bring up a point for example or comparison you almost always fallback on RPG's or Anime/Manga. I understand you like those things, which is fine, and that your channel is oriented around RPG's and whatnot, but on the videos that would otherwise be irrelevant you still bring them up. It might help to introduce variety like you did with the whole Zelda and Mario thing to establish that you know more than just Anime/Manga and RPGs.
@jfreedan The most notable one I can think of off the top of my head is your video on 'How to be a Good Game Reviewer'. Granted people do of course review RPG's and anime/manga is often a point that may divide people, but you already mention those things time and time again in your other videos. Reviewing is general across all genres and aspects of gaming. I'm sure if you've once had $3000 collection then you could at least bring up a Platformer or something for a change of pace.
@LeoCastell4 Also, anger doesn't automatically mean insecurity. Anger can mean one is passionately opposed to the statements and behavior of another, especially if those actions are causing harm. In this case, the poorly researched viewpoints expressed by other so-called "Game journalists" who spread ignorance that negatively impacts the sales of games or miscredits individuals while taking credit away from others.
Sounds reasonable. I think Dragon Warrior was the game that made me a gamer. You sure invited a lot of moronic commentary with this video lol. Race and Nationality are both social constructions, and the point is that the idea of a JRPG is based on a stereotype of the Japanese gameplayer that is based solely on Japanese games that reached the American market. So really the concept of a JRPG has more to do with the American gameplayer than Japan, so your video seems spot on.
@jfreedan "In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."
@jfreedan Thus, I feel confident to say it is racist when game reviewers stereotype games of Japanese origin and unfairly compare them to "Western" games, especially when the comparisons are bias toward certain American made titles and paint a distorted picture of Japanese CRPG developers and their titles.
@jfreedan The UN sure knows how to make a simple word into something it doesn't mean at all. Maybe they should have just called it Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Ethnic Discrimination. Probably would have made more sense with what they were going for but I suppose that wouldn't hold the same flashiness as calling it racism.
If you were going by the UNs twisted definitions then I retract my calling you a chump even if it is silly calling this raysist.
As someone who has played RPGs since the 70s, I would say the whole subject should not be taken so bloody seriously. Have fun with them! We're not talking about something really important, like Japanese nuclear reactors melting down.
@fallspeed Nuclear reactors have nothing to do with this topic. My show is about thinking critically about these games, their mechanics and how best to define them. This is important if videogames are to be considered a serious art form. As I believe they are a work of art they and their creators deserve proper recognition in the field of the arts. Thus what the games are called and judged does indeed matter, especially when the judgements are made out of ignorance.
@jfreedan My point was to put the subject in perspective. Maybe when you get a little older you'll understand how trivial all of this. My friends and I were obsessed D&D players before you were even born. Luckily, we didn't have the internet, and couldn't spend a lot of time arguing with people about it. Games are fun, and yes they may even be art, but they are only a very small of life. Certainly nothing to get angry about or call people names over.
I liked everything except your stupid arguement of Jrpg. They only reason this term is becoming common is Western style rpgs like Dragon Age are becoming way more common as the Japanese market seems to have greatly fallen behind in programing for this generation hardware. There is less thing 20 next gen rpgs for modern consoles....
@Clesarie It does make sense. You throw out hyperbole like claiming the Japanese have fallen behind in programming and that there aren't any "next gen" games. I called you out on it because you have no evidence that can prove your argument. All you have are opinions based in ignorance. Or do you honestly believe you can prove that Dragon Age is a better programmed game than Final Fantasy 13? How do you make that kind of judgment? Have you looked at the way the games were scripted?
@jfreedan I said no such shit. You're bending the words of others. This whole thing is a biased opinion piece. Im saying in total there are not more than 20 next gen systems. Japanese rpg isnt even a racist term. Stop thinking you're Japanese.
@Clesarie How do you define "next gen"? What is the criteria? You are trying to make an argument using meaningless ad copy. I will not fall for such shenanigans. If you cannot prove your beliefs are credible then you need to re-examine how you formed those beliefs and if you should continue to hold onto them. Don't get angry at me. I'm not the one who formed strong opinions based on incomplete knowledge.
@jfreedan Whatever the most recent generation is is Next gen. I dont know if you're pretending to be stupid or you're just trying to argue a useless point.
@Clesarie "Next generation" implies the generation after another. When people talk about "next generation" they are talking about something that has not yet been created but is coming and will be superior to something presently used. Because there is way more than 20 RPGs coming out you are clearly using it differently than the average person would.
Nice video! That said, as much as Dragon Quest helped standardize playability and accessible for RPGs, this almost seems like a tirade against the likes of Ultima and Wizardary on that basis. Hardcore enthusiasts were deeply invested into those games which generally involved far more ambitious narrative and interactive concepts. These games were true to form in playing with developing the roles of characters, Dragon Quest brought about a new wave that simplified it to inventory management.
If console-style RPG's (or JRPG) had more presence on the PC platform, I'd admire them even more. I managed to play The Last Remnant, Grandia 2, Final Fantasy 7 & 8 for PC, 10 & 12 (via emulation), as well as Chrono Trigger (emulation too). But, at present, I prefer PC-style RPG's (or WRPG), having enjoyed great success with Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, KOTOR 1& 2, ES4 Oblivion, Fallout 3, Diablo 1 & 2.
It be great if Final Fantasy 15 has a PC release (NOT MMORPG), like that of 7 & 8
While I agree that there are different genres within JRPGs, I don't agree that calling them that is racist (seriously, that's really over reacting, it's not like we're calling them gook RPGs or something). It's just a broad term meaning RPGs, coming from Japan. Most share a flavor that is unique to games originating in Japan. WRPGs have a lot of genres within, but I still call them WRPGs. It's a nice, quick label to tell you a little about the game without having played it yet.
@matsuringo24 The labels tell you nothing about the gameplay. If you think so then you have played very few computer RPGs from either country. The overwhelming majority of American made computer RPGs have linear narratives and few customization options, just as the overwhelming majority of Japanese made ones do. Watch my other videos, such as "What is a computer RPG" and "Why Wikipedia Video Game Articles are not reliable / credible".
@jfreedan Thanks for the offer, but I must decline. Furthermore I disagree on your analysis of WRPGs v JRPGs almost completely. I'd go so far as to say the description you lumped both into doesn't fit WRPGs at all, but rather JRPGs exclusively. I generally find WRPGs to be full of character customization and meaningful dialogue options that makes your own story and JRPGs more akin to a well told story on rails.
@matsuringo24 What "WRPGs" have you played? Have you played Champions of Norrath? Have you played WoW, CoH, EQ or any other MMORPG made by Western developers? Have you played Diablo? Have you played any of the early Ultima and Wizardry games? Have you played anything that wasn't made by BioWare or Black Isle, who might make the most popular computer RPGs by non-Japanese developers but do not represent the majority of CRPG titles released by American studios.
@matsuringo24 When you look at all of the CRPGs made by American studios it is very clear that dialogue trees are not a common mechanic. The same goes for character customization; even if many titles let you choose a race and sex, that doesn't mean it offers more customization since those changes do not impact gameplay at all. Go look at my review for The Legend of Alon'Dar. That game represents what the average "WRPG" plays like, not Fallout, Planescape: Torment or Arcanum.
@jfreedan I've played many WRPGs, my favorites being BG1/2, PST, NWN, Morrowind and the Fallout series. I'll be damned if nearly every one of those doesn't have enough character customization and dialogue to shake a stick at, all which DO change the gameplay very much. I guess you could say I favor PCRPGs as you put it, games with D&D rules or a close relative of them. Point being, WRPGs tends to be more "PC" variety and JRPGs tending to be more "light". Just replacing one label with another.
@matsuringo24 I beg to differ. The combat mechanics of Final Fantasy 7, 8 are all vastly more complicated than anything in those games you mentioned. Sure, you can't decide the character's sex and races. You can't change their clothing substantially. But the ability to tweak a character is much greater. I also disagree that the "plot changes" are that substantial; for example, Chrono Trigger or Romancing SaGa offers the same degree of multi-railroading.
@jfreedan Are you honestly going to try to argue that Final Fantasy has "VASTLY" complex combat mechanics than Baldur's Gate 2? Have you actually played BG2? I mean, you even argued against this in the video yourself; you said that 'console style RPGs' were lighter on rules and easier to understand than games that were based on table-top role playing games. BG is based on Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition rules. Am I just missing something, or are you really just a hypocrite?
@DSLCactus Do you think about what you say before you say it? AD&D was meant for people to play WITHOUT the use of computers. The system is hardly complex. In comparison I dare you to run the algorithms for those FF games without any assistance from a computer game engine. If you think you could then you are insane. FF games are way more complex.
@jfreedan BG has the combat mechanics of range and spacial character position on the battlefield. That alone makes it more complex than FF on a purely mechanical level. And no, the algorithims behind FF are not secret rocket science, it's attack - defense = damage (an equation very similar those used in many PnP games), the only reason you couldn't do it without a computer is because the numbers are not even and are large. Ask any math major; 32957 - 17431 is not complex, just tedious
@DSLCactus I'm not talking about FF1. Try 6, 7 and especially 8. And Range isn't that complex in BG. You are making assumptions based on the visual things you see in games and not what is under the hood.
@jfreedan Then could you please explain to me what's under the hood that makes FF7 's combat mechanics vastly more complex than BG2? From what I see, both actually mechanically very similar. Both have equations that dictate how often characters hit, how much damage they deal, and these equations are influenced by character statistics and equipment. Like I said, FF equations are more difficult because of the uneven and large numbers. But how are these more complex?
@DSLCactus The equations are more complex because of the way things are calculated. There are many more steps involved than in AD&D. Character customization is also superior in every way. Also, status ailments are more important and can function in more complex ways. Those FF games also have Active Time Battle, not rounds. Good game design hides game mechanics which is why you don't notice them unless you dissect the gameplay as a game designer would. Encounter design also tends to be superior
@jfreedan So bigger numbers equals more complex? You're fucking kidding right? BTW, you non-existent explanation of what is actually going on under the hood is quite telling. I'd disagree that status alignments are more important or complex and I'd disagree that the encounter design is in anyway superior. I'd say more but to be honest you sound full of shit.
@topherunhinged If you can't articulate your thoughts in a way that explains how you made your judgments you cannot expect others to share your irrational opinions.
@jfreedan Nah character customization is far more complex in D&D games. Not all of them just the ones that came out after BG and IWD when they started moving to 3rd edition rules. 3rd ed rules has some serious complexities to its multi classing. Granted you could stick with one class and its relatively simple. Lets remember you can select a race at least two classes before you receive xp penalties and a prestige class. Thats a basic 3rd ed character.
@freakyfatdog Character customization is not more complex in 3rd edition than in many other computer RPGs such as the recent FF games. 3rd edition restricts by character classes. It does have feats but you don't get that many. By contrast almost every FF game since 6 has allowed you to turn one character into pretty much anything because the character advancement systems are not based around classes with strict limits on multiclassing like in 3rd edition.
@jfreedan Thats one character and that character will have has less options than a single class 3rd edition rogue, mage, cleric, sorcerer, druid or ranger and far less options than a multiclass character. Even a single class warrior is close. Thats not even factoring the use of blog combat. FF is still using in-combat theft where as in D&D RPGs you could use stealth, pick pocketing, traps, the removal of traps, lock picking outside of combat.
@freakyfatdog D&D based games don't have battle screens in a separate environment from exploration mode like most FF games do, so your point is mute. The battle engines are different. Doesn't change that D&D calculations are easy enough you don't need a computer to handle them but FF games are pretty much impossible to play without a computer doing most of the calculations for you. And unless you're counting the splatbooks with useless feats and classes, no, 3rd edition doesn't offer more
@jfreedan Skills that matter outside of combat or right before combat in the case of stealth attacks and an engine that lets you use range offers to real depth and gameplay that you can get from that circle jerk of Final Fantasy. Inflated hp and damage is not real depth. You take out a couple zeros and its the same thing. All that is, is for show. Again have you even played Baldur's Gate? Not the console version.
@jfreedan Skills that matter outside of combat or right before combat in the case of stealth attacks and an engine that lets you use range offers real depth and gameplay that you can get from that circle jerk of Final Fantasy. Inflated hp and damage is not real depth. You take out a couple zeros and its the same thing. All that is, is for show. Again have you even played Baldur's Gate? Not the console version.
@jfreedan Are you talking about ranged weapons? Ironic if you are. In most RPG range weapons suck. Range weapons are balanced into BG and add a layer of depth that you just dont find in most sword and magic RPGs. The magic system and the ranged weapon system in BG are very complex and balanced. Its also intuitive.
@freakyfatdog I'm not going to keep repeating myself. If you don't understand how a game (Baldur's Gate) where the math during combat is just addition and subtraction is not as complex as a game that uses vast amounts of algebra (FF 8) , then you have no hope. And if you don't understand how dedicated classes do not offer as much flexibility as free-form character customization systems then you're just acting like a fanboy and not looking at it objectively.
@jfreedan Its official you really dont know what you are talking about. FF8 is one of the few FF games I have played. Just like FF 1 the attack roll is borrowed from D&D which also uses algebra for every attack roll. The difference is in the damage.
FF8 doesn't come close to the amount of character customization in 3rd edition EVEN WITH DEDICATED CLASSES!! Even with one class you have more abilities and you can choose name, sex, appearance, voice, race ethos, religon alignment..,
@freakyfatdog This is what you are going to do: You are going to go to GameFAQs and look up FF 8 then read the document called Final Fantasy VIII Battle Mechanics FAQ by ForteGSOmega. Then you are going to look up the Baldur's Gate one about AD&D mechanics. Then you are going to come here and post to admit you didn't know what you were talking about and FF 8 is vastly more complex. If you don't, you are banned because I don't have anymore time for your nonsense.
@jfreedan Anyone that compares Baldurs Gate to FF is a complete idiot.
Baldurs Gate is a glorified beat em up. Repetitive as fuck.
@Freakyfatdog try and max level your characters on FF and then come back and post a message about how you where wrong and how complex the math in the FF games really is.
@DSLCactus couldn't the same be said for any DnD derived system?
as in Damage roll+weapon stats-armor class= damage? not counting the resistances/weaknesses or other assorted fuckery.and then there's also fucking "ranges" which is essentially ranged weapon good at long(+10) melee good at short(+15). i can also say through personal experience that DnD-derived games are not very complex to the attentive mind. I mean, die rolling and then a quick look at armor class/race. not complex, archaic.
The fact that the term JRPG exists doesn't mean it is valid, is what I think he's saying, mouthy person two comments down. It's a dumb term that is often used derivatively against Japanese culture in favor of Western-style things, when in truth the differences between these so-called 'genres' are superficial.
@MegaShadowrunner The very fact of a term existing makes it valid. This is now language works. We can make new phrases and change the meaning of others over time. This phrase exists because there was a need for it. Saying it's used "against" Japanese culture is assuming a lot. I'm a player of both J and W RPG's, I have nothing against Japan, yet I use the term. I don't hold WRPGs higher just because they come from where I live. It's all about quality.
the only way JRPG would be racist is if it offends everyone except japanese people,well it doesnt offend me,and I would feel better if I was a japanese person so yeah it is not racist at all,you failed
I like Japan and I like watching japanese movies,and up until now I honestly didnt know JRPG term exist but I can understand why it exist and it can be a genre by anyone(because some sites says the opposite doesnt mean they are correct)If a site supports "JRPG" search whats so bad about it?
@ThanosTsagatos First of all for something to be racist it doesn't have to offend everyone except the "race" being insulted. It just needs to be insulting toward that "race". And that is how the JRPG label is used; it's used to insult the game designers and it is always used to contrast "JRPGs" against "Western RPGs", with WRPGs being the one the reviewer is bias for. Once again, games should not be classified by country of origin but by their mechanics. Fact is "JRPGs" cover a ton of genres.
@jfreedan I guess it wasnt that obvious, "JRPG" is not racist at all because a lot of ppl like japanese games and japanese culture and may prefer such games. my previous comment was irony meaning it does good to the japanese people that JRPG exist and the only way it would be racist is to everyone else (isnt the irony obvious? I dont know) I dont see anything bad with JRPGs and as long as some people search JRPGs it can be considered a genre. after all customer is always right!
@jfreedan And so does WRPG, yet we use that label as well. I think the real heart of the matter in this debate is people who like Japan just a little too much. You don't live there (most likely), you're no more qualified than I to say what offends Japanese people. I think the dislike toward the JRPG label comes from fans of said genre, tired of being singled out. I liked WRPGs, but I don't go bleeding everywhere when someone lumps BG2 in with Oblivion and Fable.
Look at how many people use "jrpg" in a negative connotation. How many statements have you seen where people express how "jrpgs" aren't rpgs because you don't "role-play"?
Any game with a narrative has you playing a role; hence, all games with a narrative is a "role-playing game" using the purest definition of the word. These xenophobes confuse "role-play" with "playing as yourself" - see the Elder Scrolls and Fable series, the two series people harp on about being "true" RPGs.
@ThanosTsagatos The problem is that it's NOT A GENRE! The Japanese make computer RPGs that belong to a wide range of subgenres; not a single one is called "JRPG". There is no such thing as "WRPG" either. The only people who think otherwise are those who know nothing about game mechanics or the history of videogames.
@jfreedan there are a lot of ways to categorize games , one of them is "JRPG" as long as people like categorizing them like that whats so wrong about it? genres are ways of people to categorize games so other people know what they are going to play, if both of them are happy with "JRPG" why make it otherwise?
also genres are not something that were inventede ages ago by god and cannot be changed, they were made by simple everyday humans, so they can be changed by everyday humans as well
@ThanosTsagatos Let me ask you this: How is a "JRPG" different from another kind of game? What gameplay mechanics does it have that are uniquely different from those created by "Western" designers? The problem, as I see it, is that JRPG is applied to everything from Japan irregardless of what genre it actually is (ex. roguelike, strategy rpg, action rpg, console style, MMORPG etc) and WRPG to anything made by Americans irregardless of what genre they actually belong to, too.
@jfreedan Although I agree with you, in my experience 'JRPG' has always referred to console-style RPGs. I ask someone what genre Dragon Quest is, they respond JRPG. I ask them what Valkyria Chronicles is, they say strategy RPG. Personally I've never heard anyone refer to a Japanese MMORPG as a JRPG either, maybe trends are slightly different between US and UK or something.
@corneliusfingers Try asking them what they consider a Tales of game to be, or Pokemon, or Azure Dreams. Heck, try Googleing "JRPG" and the title of these games-- or the titles of any other games that aren't console-style but are from Japan. You'll find a lot of people actually apply JRPG as a genre label to games that belong in different genres.
Anime is a term that defines japanese animation, all animation from japan will be defined as such, whether it fits the iconic style or not. vice versa, an american team cannot claim to have made an anime, no matter how much it looks like japanese style.
manga however, is a specific style, and can be made anywhere, animated manga is not necessarily called anime.
I am going correct you RPG gamer. You are a biased moron and no one should listen to you. JRPG can be a genre and a industry being one or the other does not cancel the other out. a Genre is a form of art or culture and as such a JRPG can be art or based on "Japanese culture" thus JRPG, you have been served. Oh and also, there is another form of Light RPG that has taken the industry lately... You might know them as games like "Puzzle Quest" look into it, genres can change.
@ChaosDirge In order to serve someone you must be able to cook. Computer rpgs below to two genres; a narrative genre (sci-fi, fantasy, etc) and a game mechanics genre (rogue-like, dungeoncrawler, console-style, pc-style, etc). If you disagree then go look at GameFAQs. You will notice that console-style and pc-style are genres and have been recognized as so since the 90s. JRPG is a brand new term invented a couple years ago and describes whatever the reviewer thinks defines japanese computer rpgs
@ChaosDirge My opinion is formed from a position of knowledge about game design, narrative structure and videogame history. Your opinion is based on what again? The opinions of people who received associate or bachelor degrees in journalism, know little about videogames or videogame design, and have often been proven to not actually have played the game they created a review for.
@jfreedan I would like to add that you talk about knowledge, this is good, actually a few times I can tell that you yourself have made a mistake though... though you seem to know that Knowledge is not education, I have seen you guilty of a few things that you seem to contrast. My argument was not on what people think but rather what it is" JRP" you can not describe it as anything else as a RPG that is from Japan, Demon Souls is a JRPG it doesn't fit the biased assumption of one.
@jfreedan I would also like to state that My knowledge comes from being a person, not a designer, not a journalist, Nothing but a person that loves to play video games and loves to expand his knowledge of literature and art. I have no degree, I am a bum, a knowledgeable bum with too much free time on his hands. I would not meet any criteria to be a reference for knowledge but neither would any sources of the founders of logic. I will continue this debate with you in PMS after I watch.
lol i like you ( no homo! ) i mean, u seem to be well informed and u know what ur talking about. thanks! i myself would call many games ( jrpg ) only because it was a quick and easy way of pointing out my favorite kinds of games which are rpg games that are in the anime style. this video pretty much told me to stfu and learn what its really called! lol
Seriously, I've been growing tired of the constant complaining about 'JRPGs', which to me have always been the definition of RPG. Thank you very much for pitting this out, as this has been getting out of hand.
Very good points! Thanks for this. I've grown up with games and my favourites are the Final Fantasy series, but I was completely taken in by the 'JRPG' label. In fact, I've been struggling to find a more appropriate term to describe the genre, little did I know there already was one that has been used for years and simply abandoned. Thank you for educating me :)
dude. awesome.. good history. i was also a bit pissed that people credit the japanese with the *invention* of the RPG. Japanese style RPG's were ripped from the Ultima Series. Lord Britian was the guy who invented the idea of inventory systems and villages where you could buy armour, weapons etc. And prior to that, goblins, orcs, all of that came from the West, D&D and semi-developed from there the Fighting Fantasy game books.
@Miisen yeah from ten other little geek idiots like you mate. Do you really think that people in the real world give a flying fuck about thumbs up on youtube? Go outside pal. Try and get a glimpse of a real girl.
2. If Japanese isn't a race, neither is White, Hispanic, Asian, or Black.
3. What on earth counts as a race, and why? Is Alpine and Turanid and Jewish a race?
4. Even if there were worthy official names for race that were better than "Japanese" or "German" or "Jewish", like "white" and "black" which are more commonly acceptable, you could be still be racist towards people who weren't a "race".
@XubuntuIris To give examples of what I'm talking about. The United States, usually the system of race people go by when saying something is not a race or is, has declared that Jewish people and many Arabs are the same race as Germans. But Nazi Germany considered them a non-German race, a completely different race for Germans. Similarly, Anglo-Americans at one time considered themselves a different race from Eastern Europeans, Finnish, and even Irish people.
@XubuntuIris South Africa has been noted for essentially considering both Asians and Blacks, of United States terminology, to essentially be the same race, and made little distinction between the two. On the other hand, they made an exception for Japan, and considered them to be the same race as white South Africans. Many Han Chinese, as well, do not consider themselves to be the same race as Altaic Mongolians and Uigurs.
@XubuntuIris And equally so, many Altaic peoples, particularly Turkish nationalists, do not consider themselves to be of the same race as Europeans or Asians. But instead "Turanids". The Nazis not only did not consider themselves to be a part of the same race as the United States does, but also as a part of a greater, unique Northern European race. Contrasted to "Alpine" types.
@XubuntuIris The United States culture considered people of Spanish European culture and descent to be of a different race from their own usage of the term "white". While many other people would consider Hispanics instead to be as the same race as Anglo-Americans. And famously, to go back to the Nazi example, the Nazis partially considered themselves to be of the same race as their Japanese allies.
@XubuntuIris Japanese people, personally consider themselves of the Yamato race, which they have contrasted to pretty much everyone else in the world. They used to use this to contrast themselves with Ainu people, but to make ethnic amends, Japanese people are starting to instead adopt a Jomon concept of race, in which Ainu are being considered Japanese, and many historical "Yamato" figures, are being labeled as "Ainu-like". Many Westerners do not seem to understand this gesture.
@XubuntuIris The United States once considered any person mixed with someone of African descent, to be be black, under the "one drop" rule. Now, they would be considered instead, "mixed" more than they used to, even though the concept is still more alive that most whites realize. I myself would be considered a black woman, even though my skin is of a fairly light brown. In fact, most black Americans, if not all, are mixed with "white" European blood, and not just African.
@XubuntuIris In the end, all of these racial terms are accurate, and none of them all. They're all cultural constructs. There's really no such thing as a black person or a white person or a turanid person or an aryan race or an alpine person or so forth. You, the entire world, are just a huge variety of mutants from our "black" African genes. But various people all believe their ethnicity and nationality and culture and appearance are a "race" anyway.
@XubuntuIris So don't say that "Japanese is not a race", they may not be a race according to your culture, but they are to theirs. They're as much as race as black or white or asian or hispanic is. And if you believe that the latter are more a race than Japanese is, you are being ethnocentric.
That is, not unless you also agree that black isn't a race either. Which I suspect you don't. Your ancestors were once as dark skinned as me... you know...
I just wanna chip in - Language evolves when people start using words/phrases to refer to certain things. JRPG is just a new label for it, and to me that's fine. It's broadly understood what it actually means, which is exactly what the genre label is for.
You seem to forget that there "A LOT" of things that Japanese Anime (I don't think anyone uses the term "Jap'Anime" either) and JRPGS use that are prevalent in all of them. It's mostly culture-specific quirks like how characters act, or long winding speeches, or jokes that don't translate well over here that they try to translate anyway, so it comes off as Uncanny.
I agree, I still remember how Final Fantasy 8 came out, it was reputable, waited, and in (my country's) journalism in TV it was just called "Role playing game" without much abbreviation - later I read FF XIII review (what I have not played for lack of PS3 or xbox) - but saw it being referred "japanese role playing game" in snarky "can japanese even do western appealing stuff" - I was baffled, since if Final Fantasy Series would not had in past, how would it be run so long now?
@SumeaBizarro This is exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone who thinks that I'm just over-reacting has NOT been paying attention to western game reviewers when they review Japanese made computer rpgs. They will write the game off for simply being Japanese and make outlandish statements that demonstrate poor knowledge of the history of computer rpgs. If you don't think there is racism involved you are blind.
When a game site refers to an rpg as a "jrpg" I always understood it to mean a game influenced by Japanese culture, usually because that is its country of origin. I never understood it to mean a different kind of rpg.
Also, I don't find the term racist at all, I just don't see how it is.
Regarding the whole racism issue, I think it depends on the intent behind the use of a word, rather than the word itself. If "JRPG" is used in a demeaning manner to racially stereotype Japanese people in a negative way, then there is some subtle racism to it. If it's just used in a neutral manner to generally refer to RPGs developed in Japan, then it's not really racist.
I always felt that was the major difference. PC-style RPGs emphasise player freedom and dialogue strings, and are more analogous to traditional tabletop style games, whereas 'Light RPGs', as you call them, are more emotionally involving and have a more linear, albeit well crafted and comprehensively presented story. I should also thank you for your knowledge and research, it's good to be informed on the matter and I can tell from your reviews that you know your shit.
I damn well love you for this. Thank you so much for making this video. You know, I always found it absurd how much vitriol the Western PC-style camp regards the Japanese console-style RPG games. As far as I'm concerned, it's simply unnecessary. I'm saying this as the two most influential RPGs, and quite possibly games, of my entire childhood and early adolescence were, admittedly, Final Fantasy VII and Baldur's Gate II. Can I not appreciate stylistic differences now?
I think a lot of RPG fans are too hung up on the minor differences (most of which are untrue stereotypes) that they ignore the far greater similarities. Beyond the stylistic differences, there is very little to seperate Final Fantasy VII from Baldur's Gate II in terms of gameplay. They both have exploration, hybrid combat, somewhat linear plots, developed characters, dialogue choices, dating sim elements, etc. They both clearly belong to the same genre.
@jfreedan I see your where you are coming, but I hope you can see the confusion when you specifically say "anime is an artstyle and an industry, but not a genre". Personally I think that dropping an entire country under "artstyle" is not very good, especially since you didn't give any backup-info like you did in these comments. I mean, it's like comparing frank miller to John Romita Jr. America has pretty unique terms with producing animation compared to japan. It's all about what the norm is.
OK, I agree with what you are saying here, but quit playing the Race card. Racism spawns from hate, calling a certain type of RPG "Japanese" is NOT hateful, just ignorance to the origin of that type of RPG or the variation of RPGs that come from Japan. They think of Final Fantasy, they think of Elder Scrolls, and divide the genres based on the countries of origin of these major franchises. It is faulty categorization, NOT racism, dont give me that crap. That word is used too loosely.
Actually, anime only means animation done in Japan and is infact, not an artstyle. The typical artstyle you're thinking of is called shonen and is used in popular animes like naruto, onepiece and bleach. Just found it kind of ironic that you did the same mistake when refering to anime as an artstyle, like the same prominent figures in the gaming industry does wrongly with jrpgs and wrpgs.
@Screamingreader When I said anime was a unique industry, I was referring to the production style, which is a very distinct variation of limited animation. I don't think shonen is an art style. On the whole, the majority of Japanese pop art descends from Osamu Tezuka's style, which in turn descends from Max Fleischer's style but is also very much based on Meiji period. There is unique Zen aesthetics commonly utilized in Japanese art and its part of the culture.
Lol you fuck wit, if your going to be angry at people then you could at least know what the terms you are using mean
Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. ...
What you mean to say about calling games JRPG is stereotyping or prejudice, not racist.
@jfreedan how does what kind of games a group of people make have an impact on if they are inferior. The point is, if you are going make a argument you might as well not mess it up. You imply that the proper terms for racist prejudice or whatever don't matter, but then why does JRPG vs Light or console rpg matter. It gets the point across. If you don't care to preserve the true meaning of the term racism for concise and accurate description why do you care so much about genre names?
@SURPLUSNiNjA My argument isn't about semantics. My argument is to use a genre label that has existed for two decades, not one that was recently invented by a few game reviewers who know little about the history of computer rpgs and judge games by their country of origin and graphics, not by their actual mechanics.
@jfreedan You see the thing is, the bulk majority of main stream games that come over seas from Japan/Asian countries fit under those stereotypes.Despite the terms inaccuracies for the most part the games they review and the people reading them it works an works well.But hey I don't see why you have an issue with a term missuses like the difference between console rpgs and "JPRG" or Racism and stereotypes, I mean clearly you didn't just make a whole set of videos about misuse of categorizations
This is really awesome man! Great fuckin work :D
silvioCarrera 3 days ago in playlist The RPG Fanatic Video Game Reviews
@Jfreedan you are so awesome and entertaining, can you make a review of Grandia? it's my all time favorite game, if you take requests :)
TheAndycoll 1 week ago
@TheAndycoll I don't own Grandia, but maybe someday I'll do something on the Grandia series.
jfreedan 1 week ago
you got good research. but man your hating on retro video games. in my book thats not cool.
i may not have alot of video but still plz do not hate on the oldies.
TheGamesmart 1 week ago
Great video
8dragonquest 3 weeks ago
Good ass video, bro. Well done research.
1Onsokumaru1 1 month ago
you must know elder scrolls: arena and daggerfall but didn't sayd a word about them. arena and daggerfall was revolusonery (skills level up over time in daggerfall arena is xp based level up with no skills.) propeply best rpg series ever that don't mean console rpg are bad. but i don't like final fantasy.
Osmodaful 1 month ago
@Osmodaful Final Fantasy II had a system for skills leveling up. That was 1988, long before Elder Scrolls. Elder Scrolls main claim to fame is that the origin of faction / reputation systems comes from Daggerfall, but was refined into it's present form by EQ's design team.
jfreedan 1 month ago
@jfreedan okay i did not know that but cool.
Osmodaful 1 month ago
Great Videos!
AudiiHengbok 2 months ago
I enjoyed your video. Good job. Try not to be so upset - you'll live longer.
dizmalus 2 months ago
Interesting and correct information however, you will have to accept the widely used terms to explain media as they are updated with the current times, this is something I have accepted and I think people will have to soon too.
bucketmonkeys 3 months ago
@bucketmonkeys I don't have to accept it. That's why I made these videos. Just because something is popular doesn't make it right. There are a lot of terrible things that have been popular and they've only been discarded because people spoke up.
jfreedan 3 months ago
@jfreedan @jfreedan I agree with you however the term people use to describe a game is hardly a terrible thing. Also, do you know of any good rouglelikes that have come out of japan? I really enjoy them and it would be interesting to see some new faces!
bucketmonkeys 3 months ago
@bucketmonkeys Uh....I've reviewed roguelikes made by Japanese developers on this very channel, Unlosing Ranger Vs Darkdeath Evilman, Torneko the Last Hope and Azure Dreams.
jfreedan 3 months ago
regarding the controller. All PCs had keyboards and all NES had gamepad. But do you think many NES had keyboards? This is the only reason why DQ uses controller. Keyboard is better on the long run though, because you memorize the letters. It is easy to remember something like (G)et or (P)ush, and much faster to type. And you will use only a handful of spells in the long run.
I agree though that DQ is a more advanced design, though simplified, which is not a problem.
feamatar 3 months ago
@RetroShinigami I didn't really mention Hydelide because it's a crappy version of Dragon Slayer
jfreedan 5 months ago
Wizaedry acrually was released in the late 80s for the famicom. How do i know? I have it my own collection.
nallenthepuh 5 months ago
@nallenthepuh I'm not sure what your point is. I reviewed the NES port of Wizardry in the very next video. Do you mean to imply that Wizardry was originally released on the NES? If so, no, it was not originally released on the NES.
jfreedan 5 months ago
@jfreedan no i think was a little quick to post the comment :P It was released for the famicom in 1987 as you said :P
nallenthepuh 5 months ago
I just call them RPG's, or crpg's for computerized or console role playing games- people know what I'm talking about, and nobody I know plays board games so the distinction needs not even be made for me. Makes more sense than 'light'...given the increasing complexity of the systems in some series over the years. Some are anything but 'light'.
sonbuhitsunei 6 months ago
@sonbuhitsunei Just because -you- and your friends do not play tabletop RPGs doesn't mean others don't either. rpg dot net happens to be a tabletop gaming website, so it is certainly common for many people to use "rpg" as meaning the tabletop ones. The distinction between computer RPGs and tabletop RPGs does needs to be made to clear up confusion so people know what I am talking about. As for the complexities of modern computer RPGs, I agree but I'm just explaining the meaning behind the labels
jfreedan 6 months ago
@jfreedan I agree that the distinction needs to be made- I just mean that among the people I associate with, when I say rpg, they know what I mean. I'll specify if it's something otherwise, or just call them 'cprpg', 'mmorpg', 'crpg' or something of the like. Just don't like the term 'light' as it sounds a bit insulting to those of us who play console based rpg's - as if we're simpletons who need things made very plain for us (have they played some of these games? lol)...but that's just me. :)
sonbuhitsunei 6 months ago
demon souls
developed by a japanese company
RE141095 6 months ago
@RE141095 Demons souls
Kicks ass
holypie987 3 months ago
dragon quest is more like wizardry and ultima combined then just ultima 3. It uses the turn base, first person battles from wizardry and the top down view and towns from ultima. all in a lighter much user friendly game
wiggbuggie1 7 months ago
@wiggbuggie1
I would also add Portopia Serial Murder Case, a 1983 adventure game by Dragon Quest's designer Yuji Horii. Portopia was hugely popular in Japan but remains largely unknown in the West.
It was Portopia that provided the interface and storytelling elements used in Dragon Quest, while Wizardry contributed the first-person battles and Ultima contributed the overhead exploration elements.
Jagged85 7 months ago
I agree with you completely but I don't really think calling it a JRPG counts as racist, for it to be racist it has to be derogatory in that it puts down the race as a whole as if they are inferior to another race. or if many people found them unappealing and referred to the games as JRPG's in that western RPG's are superior, like "oh it's just another cookie cutter JRPG that's linear and that western RPG's are superior to. and whatnot.
aristokraticassassin 7 months ago
@aristokraticassassin That is pretty much what my argument is. Check my most recent video on the subject, "Is the term JRPG racist?"
jfreedan 7 months ago
I LOVE the ARTWORK @ 04:55 !!! =D
Rewayah 8 months ago
EXCELLENT!!!
AltitudeNYC 8 months ago
What was the game @ 2:14?
XNoel2 8 months ago
@XNoel2 TLOTR: Third Age. I have a review for it uploaded. It's one of the first games I reviewed.
jfreedan 8 months ago
I feel like your videos like this would be slammed less if you didn't come across as so angry and rude. Showing your anger leads to people thinking you're insecure on the subject. Being insecure on the subject implies a biased undertone. A biased undertone negates an objective stance. Maybe you weren't going for an objective stance, but it's pretty clear that you tend to favor what people call 'JRPGs' over what people call 'WRPGs', which makes your point hard to take seriously.
LeoCastell4 8 months ago
@LeoCastell4 The only preference I have is for good games. It doesn't matter what genre the game is or who made it; if it's a good game, I'll like it. My show just happens to be oriented toward computer RPGs and the games I review are whichever ones I want to talk about. I've been trying to focus on games that aren't well known or at least don't have a lot of other people making video reviews about.
jfreedan 8 months ago
@jfreedan I understand that and commend you for going for niche appeal, but when watching through your videos I couldn't help but notice a trend. In your collection videos the vast majority of your video games are what people would call 'JRPGs' as are most of the games you have reviewed.
LeoCastell4 8 months ago
@LeoCastell4 I've mentioned this before, but I've been having to re-assemble my game collection almost from scratch as I had sold the collection I had from growing up a few years back. The collection went for a few thousand dollars on eBay, so I had a large library of games. I also haven't had a working PC until recently (and it is a seven year old laptop running XP).
jfreedan 8 months ago
@jfreedan Not only that, but whenever I've seen you need to bring up a point for example or comparison you almost always fallback on RPG's or Anime/Manga. I understand you like those things, which is fine, and that your channel is oriented around RPG's and whatnot, but on the videos that would otherwise be irrelevant you still bring them up. It might help to introduce variety like you did with the whole Zelda and Mario thing to establish that you know more than just Anime/Manga and RPGs.
LeoCastell4 8 months ago
@LeoCastell4 I'm not sure what videos you are talking about...do you mean the Ultraman review?
jfreedan 8 months ago
@jfreedan The most notable one I can think of off the top of my head is your video on 'How to be a Good Game Reviewer'. Granted people do of course review RPG's and anime/manga is often a point that may divide people, but you already mention those things time and time again in your other videos. Reviewing is general across all genres and aspects of gaming. I'm sure if you've once had $3000 collection then you could at least bring up a Platformer or something for a change of pace.
LeoCastell4 8 months ago
@LeoCastell4 Also, anger doesn't automatically mean insecurity. Anger can mean one is passionately opposed to the statements and behavior of another, especially if those actions are causing harm. In this case, the poorly researched viewpoints expressed by other so-called "Game journalists" who spread ignorance that negatively impacts the sales of games or miscredits individuals while taking credit away from others.
jfreedan 8 months ago
Meh. I use Jrpg to describe games from Japan and the rest of Asia, and Wrpg for games from North America.
RpgExposition 9 months ago
Sounds reasonable. I think Dragon Warrior was the game that made me a gamer. You sure invited a lot of moronic commentary with this video lol. Race and Nationality are both social constructions, and the point is that the idea of a JRPG is based on a stereotype of the Japanese gameplayer that is based solely on Japanese games that reached the American market. So really the concept of a JRPG has more to do with the American gameplayer than Japan, so your video seems spot on.
MikeBra99 9 months ago
You don't know what racist means chump go open a dictionary you may learn something new and exciting.
Juannogity 9 months ago
@Juannogity I use the definition laid out by United Nations' International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination.
jfreedan 9 months ago
@jfreedan "In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."
jfreedan 9 months ago
@jfreedan Thus, I feel confident to say it is racist when game reviewers stereotype games of Japanese origin and unfairly compare them to "Western" games, especially when the comparisons are bias toward certain American made titles and paint a distorted picture of Japanese CRPG developers and their titles.
jfreedan 9 months ago
@jfreedan The UN sure knows how to make a simple word into something it doesn't mean at all. Maybe they should have just called it Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Ethnic Discrimination. Probably would have made more sense with what they were going for but I suppose that wouldn't hold the same flashiness as calling it racism.
If you were going by the UNs twisted definitions then I retract my calling you a chump even if it is silly calling this raysist.
Juannogity 9 months ago
As someone who has played RPGs since the 70s, I would say the whole subject should not be taken so bloody seriously. Have fun with them! We're not talking about something really important, like Japanese nuclear reactors melting down.
fallspeed 9 months ago
@fallspeed Nuclear reactors have nothing to do with this topic. My show is about thinking critically about these games, their mechanics and how best to define them. This is important if videogames are to be considered a serious art form. As I believe they are a work of art they and their creators deserve proper recognition in the field of the arts. Thus what the games are called and judged does indeed matter, especially when the judgements are made out of ignorance.
jfreedan 9 months ago
@jfreedan My point was to put the subject in perspective. Maybe when you get a little older you'll understand how trivial all of this. My friends and I were obsessed D&D players before you were even born. Luckily, we didn't have the internet, and couldn't spend a lot of time arguing with people about it. Games are fun, and yes they may even be art, but they are only a very small of life. Certainly nothing to get angry about or call people names over.
fallspeed 9 months ago
@fallspeed You're just trying to use red herrings to confuse the argument. Stick to the issue at hand.
jfreedan 9 months ago
This is a really great piece, very informative.
TheNightgym 9 months ago
I liked everything except your stupid arguement of Jrpg. They only reason this term is becoming common is Western style rpgs like Dragon Age are becoming way more common as the Japanese market seems to have greatly fallen behind in programing for this generation hardware. There is less thing 20 next gen rpgs for modern consoles....
Clesarie 10 months ago
@Clesarie There is no such thing as "next gen RPG". What is released on a gaming console is not the end all, be all of videogame releases.
jfreedan 9 months ago
@jfreedan What you're saying makes no sense and isnt relevant to the comment.
Clesarie 9 months ago
@Clesarie It does make sense. You throw out hyperbole like claiming the Japanese have fallen behind in programming and that there aren't any "next gen" games. I called you out on it because you have no evidence that can prove your argument. All you have are opinions based in ignorance. Or do you honestly believe you can prove that Dragon Age is a better programmed game than Final Fantasy 13? How do you make that kind of judgment? Have you looked at the way the games were scripted?
jfreedan 9 months ago
@jfreedan I said no such shit. You're bending the words of others. This whole thing is a biased opinion piece. Im saying in total there are not more than 20 next gen systems. Japanese rpg isnt even a racist term. Stop thinking you're Japanese.
Clesarie 9 months ago
@Clesarie How do you define "next gen"? What is the criteria? You are trying to make an argument using meaningless ad copy. I will not fall for such shenanigans. If you cannot prove your beliefs are credible then you need to re-examine how you formed those beliefs and if you should continue to hold onto them. Don't get angry at me. I'm not the one who formed strong opinions based on incomplete knowledge.
jfreedan 9 months ago
@jfreedan Whatever the most recent generation is is Next gen. I dont know if you're pretending to be stupid or you're just trying to argue a useless point.
Clesarie 9 months ago
@Clesarie "Next generation" implies the generation after another. When people talk about "next generation" they are talking about something that has not yet been created but is coming and will be superior to something presently used. Because there is way more than 20 RPGs coming out you are clearly using it differently than the average person would.
jfreedan 9 months ago
VERY informative information thank you for setting me on the right foot.
skygrasper091 10 months ago
Nice video! That said, as much as Dragon Quest helped standardize playability and accessible for RPGs, this almost seems like a tirade against the likes of Ultima and Wizardary on that basis. Hardcore enthusiasts were deeply invested into those games which generally involved far more ambitious narrative and interactive concepts. These games were true to form in playing with developing the roles of characters, Dragon Quest brought about a new wave that simplified it to inventory management.
CyberSoulBrother 10 months ago
I also would like to say I completely agree that Dragon Quest started the genre.
AlexanderDrake 11 months ago
If console-style RPG's (or JRPG) had more presence on the PC platform, I'd admire them even more. I managed to play The Last Remnant, Grandia 2, Final Fantasy 7 & 8 for PC, 10 & 12 (via emulation), as well as Chrono Trigger (emulation too). But, at present, I prefer PC-style RPG's (or WRPG), having enjoyed great success with Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, KOTOR 1& 2, ES4 Oblivion, Fallout 3, Diablo 1 & 2.
It be great if Final Fantasy 15 has a PC release (NOT MMORPG), like that of 7 & 8
Francozilla 11 months ago
dude, lighten up! who cares? i love jrpgs!
xtelemasterx 11 months ago
Yathzee is "so called video gaming journalist"?
CroGamer002 11 months ago
While I agree that there are different genres within JRPGs, I don't agree that calling them that is racist (seriously, that's really over reacting, it's not like we're calling them gook RPGs or something). It's just a broad term meaning RPGs, coming from Japan. Most share a flavor that is unique to games originating in Japan. WRPGs have a lot of genres within, but I still call them WRPGs. It's a nice, quick label to tell you a little about the game without having played it yet.
matsuringo24 11 months ago
@matsuringo24 The labels tell you nothing about the gameplay. If you think so then you have played very few computer RPGs from either country. The overwhelming majority of American made computer RPGs have linear narratives and few customization options, just as the overwhelming majority of Japanese made ones do. Watch my other videos, such as "What is a computer RPG" and "Why Wikipedia Video Game Articles are not reliable / credible".
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Thanks for the offer, but I must decline. Furthermore I disagree on your analysis of WRPGs v JRPGs almost completely. I'd go so far as to say the description you lumped both into doesn't fit WRPGs at all, but rather JRPGs exclusively. I generally find WRPGs to be full of character customization and meaningful dialogue options that makes your own story and JRPGs more akin to a well told story on rails.
matsuringo24 11 months ago
@matsuringo24 What "WRPGs" have you played? Have you played Champions of Norrath? Have you played WoW, CoH, EQ or any other MMORPG made by Western developers? Have you played Diablo? Have you played any of the early Ultima and Wizardry games? Have you played anything that wasn't made by BioWare or Black Isle, who might make the most popular computer RPGs by non-Japanese developers but do not represent the majority of CRPG titles released by American studios.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@matsuringo24 When you look at all of the CRPGs made by American studios it is very clear that dialogue trees are not a common mechanic. The same goes for character customization; even if many titles let you choose a race and sex, that doesn't mean it offers more customization since those changes do not impact gameplay at all. Go look at my review for The Legend of Alon'Dar. That game represents what the average "WRPG" plays like, not Fallout, Planescape: Torment or Arcanum.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan I've played many WRPGs, my favorites being BG1/2, PST, NWN, Morrowind and the Fallout series. I'll be damned if nearly every one of those doesn't have enough character customization and dialogue to shake a stick at, all which DO change the gameplay very much. I guess you could say I favor PCRPGs as you put it, games with D&D rules or a close relative of them. Point being, WRPGs tends to be more "PC" variety and JRPGs tending to be more "light". Just replacing one label with another.
matsuringo24 11 months ago
@matsuringo24 I beg to differ. The combat mechanics of Final Fantasy 7, 8 are all vastly more complicated than anything in those games you mentioned. Sure, you can't decide the character's sex and races. You can't change their clothing substantially. But the ability to tweak a character is much greater. I also disagree that the "plot changes" are that substantial; for example, Chrono Trigger or Romancing SaGa offers the same degree of multi-railroading.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Are you honestly going to try to argue that Final Fantasy has "VASTLY" complex combat mechanics than Baldur's Gate 2? Have you actually played BG2? I mean, you even argued against this in the video yourself; you said that 'console style RPGs' were lighter on rules and easier to understand than games that were based on table-top role playing games. BG is based on Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition rules. Am I just missing something, or are you really just a hypocrite?
DSLCactus 11 months ago
@DSLCactus Do you think about what you say before you say it? AD&D was meant for people to play WITHOUT the use of computers. The system is hardly complex. In comparison I dare you to run the algorithms for those FF games without any assistance from a computer game engine. If you think you could then you are insane. FF games are way more complex.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan BG has the combat mechanics of range and spacial character position on the battlefield. That alone makes it more complex than FF on a purely mechanical level. And no, the algorithims behind FF are not secret rocket science, it's attack - defense = damage (an equation very similar those used in many PnP games), the only reason you couldn't do it without a computer is because the numbers are not even and are large. Ask any math major; 32957 - 17431 is not complex, just tedious
DSLCactus 11 months ago
@DSLCactus I'm not talking about FF1. Try 6, 7 and especially 8. And Range isn't that complex in BG. You are making assumptions based on the visual things you see in games and not what is under the hood.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Then could you please explain to me what's under the hood that makes FF7 's combat mechanics vastly more complex than BG2? From what I see, both actually mechanically very similar. Both have equations that dictate how often characters hit, how much damage they deal, and these equations are influenced by character statistics and equipment. Like I said, FF equations are more difficult because of the uneven and large numbers. But how are these more complex?
DSLCactus 11 months ago
@DSLCactus The equations are more complex because of the way things are calculated. There are many more steps involved than in AD&D. Character customization is also superior in every way. Also, status ailments are more important and can function in more complex ways. Those FF games also have Active Time Battle, not rounds. Good game design hides game mechanics which is why you don't notice them unless you dissect the gameplay as a game designer would. Encounter design also tends to be superior
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan So bigger numbers equals more complex? You're fucking kidding right? BTW, you non-existent explanation of what is actually going on under the hood is quite telling. I'd disagree that status alignments are more important or complex and I'd disagree that the encounter design is in anyway superior. I'd say more but to be honest you sound full of shit.
topherunhinged 11 months ago
@topherunhinged If you can't articulate your thoughts in a way that explains how you made your judgments you cannot expect others to share your irrational opinions.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Nah character customization is far more complex in D&D games. Not all of them just the ones that came out after BG and IWD when they started moving to 3rd edition rules. 3rd ed rules has some serious complexities to its multi classing. Granted you could stick with one class and its relatively simple. Lets remember you can select a race at least two classes before you receive xp penalties and a prestige class. Thats a basic 3rd ed character.
freakyfatdog 11 months ago
@freakyfatdog Character customization is not more complex in 3rd edition than in many other computer RPGs such as the recent FF games. 3rd edition restricts by character classes. It does have feats but you don't get that many. By contrast almost every FF game since 6 has allowed you to turn one character into pretty much anything because the character advancement systems are not based around classes with strict limits on multiclassing like in 3rd edition.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Thats one character and that character will have has less options than a single class 3rd edition rogue, mage, cleric, sorcerer, druid or ranger and far less options than a multiclass character. Even a single class warrior is close. Thats not even factoring the use of blog combat. FF is still using in-combat theft where as in D&D RPGs you could use stealth, pick pocketing, traps, the removal of traps, lock picking outside of combat.
freakyfatdog 11 months ago
@freakyfatdog D&D based games don't have battle screens in a separate environment from exploration mode like most FF games do, so your point is mute. The battle engines are different. Doesn't change that D&D calculations are easy enough you don't need a computer to handle them but FF games are pretty much impossible to play without a computer doing most of the calculations for you. And unless you're counting the splatbooks with useless feats and classes, no, 3rd edition doesn't offer more
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Skills that matter outside of combat or right before combat in the case of stealth attacks and an engine that lets you use range offers to real depth and gameplay that you can get from that circle jerk of Final Fantasy. Inflated hp and damage is not real depth. You take out a couple zeros and its the same thing. All that is, is for show. Again have you even played Baldur's Gate? Not the console version.
freakyfatdog 11 months ago
@jfreedan Skills that matter outside of combat or right before combat in the case of stealth attacks and an engine that lets you use range offers real depth and gameplay that you can get from that circle jerk of Final Fantasy. Inflated hp and damage is not real depth. You take out a couple zeros and its the same thing. All that is, is for show. Again have you even played Baldur's Gate? Not the console version.
freakyfatdog 11 months ago
@jfreedan Are you talking about ranged weapons? Ironic if you are. In most RPG range weapons suck. Range weapons are balanced into BG and add a layer of depth that you just dont find in most sword and magic RPGs. The magic system and the ranged weapon system in BG are very complex and balanced. Its also intuitive.
freakyfatdog 11 months ago
@freakyfatdog I'm not going to keep repeating myself. If you don't understand how a game (Baldur's Gate) where the math during combat is just addition and subtraction is not as complex as a game that uses vast amounts of algebra (FF 8) , then you have no hope. And if you don't understand how dedicated classes do not offer as much flexibility as free-form character customization systems then you're just acting like a fanboy and not looking at it objectively.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Its official you really dont know what you are talking about. FF8 is one of the few FF games I have played. Just like FF 1 the attack roll is borrowed from D&D which also uses algebra for every attack roll. The difference is in the damage.
FF8 doesn't come close to the amount of character customization in 3rd edition EVEN WITH DEDICATED CLASSES!! Even with one class you have more abilities and you can choose name, sex, appearance, voice, race ethos, religon alignment..,
freakyfatdog 11 months ago
@freakyfatdog This is what you are going to do: You are going to go to GameFAQs and look up FF 8 then read the document called Final Fantasy VIII Battle Mechanics FAQ by ForteGSOmega. Then you are going to look up the Baldur's Gate one about AD&D mechanics. Then you are going to come here and post to admit you didn't know what you were talking about and FF 8 is vastly more complex. If you don't, you are banned because I don't have anymore time for your nonsense.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Anyone that compares Baldurs Gate to FF is a complete idiot.
Baldurs Gate is a glorified beat em up. Repetitive as fuck.
@Freakyfatdog try and max level your characters on FF and then come back and post a message about how you where wrong and how complex the math in the FF games really is.
13expose13 10 months ago
@DSLCactus couldn't the same be said for any DnD derived system?
as in Damage roll+weapon stats-armor class= damage? not counting the resistances/weaknesses or other assorted fuckery.and then there's also fucking "ranges" which is essentially ranged weapon good at long(+10) melee good at short(+15). i can also say through personal experience that DnD-derived games are not very complex to the attentive mind. I mean, die rolling and then a quick look at armor class/race. not complex, archaic.
Chaoktarukto 10 months ago
The fact that the term JRPG exists doesn't mean it is valid, is what I think he's saying, mouthy person two comments down. It's a dumb term that is often used derivatively against Japanese culture in favor of Western-style things, when in truth the differences between these so-called 'genres' are superficial.
MegaShadowrunner 1 year ago
@MegaShadowrunner The very fact of a term existing makes it valid. This is now language works. We can make new phrases and change the meaning of others over time. This phrase exists because there was a need for it. Saying it's used "against" Japanese culture is assuming a lot. I'm a player of both J and W RPG's, I have nothing against Japan, yet I use the term. I don't hold WRPGs higher just because they come from where I live. It's all about quality.
matsuringo24 11 months ago
the only way JRPG would be racist is if it offends everyone except japanese people,well it doesnt offend me,and I would feel better if I was a japanese person so yeah it is not racist at all,you failed
I like Japan and I like watching japanese movies,and up until now I honestly didnt know JRPG term exist but I can understand why it exist and it can be a genre by anyone(because some sites says the opposite doesnt mean they are correct)If a site supports "JRPG" search whats so bad about it?
ThanosTsagatos 1 year ago
@ThanosTsagatos First of all for something to be racist it doesn't have to offend everyone except the "race" being insulted. It just needs to be insulting toward that "race". And that is how the JRPG label is used; it's used to insult the game designers and it is always used to contrast "JRPGs" against "Western RPGs", with WRPGs being the one the reviewer is bias for. Once again, games should not be classified by country of origin but by their mechanics. Fact is "JRPGs" cover a ton of genres.
jfreedan 1 year ago
@jfreedan I guess it wasnt that obvious, "JRPG" is not racist at all because a lot of ppl like japanese games and japanese culture and may prefer such games. my previous comment was irony meaning it does good to the japanese people that JRPG exist and the only way it would be racist is to everyone else (isnt the irony obvious? I dont know) I dont see anything bad with JRPGs and as long as some people search JRPGs it can be considered a genre. after all customer is always right!
ThanosTsagatos 1 year ago
@jfreedan And so does WRPG, yet we use that label as well. I think the real heart of the matter in this debate is people who like Japan just a little too much. You don't live there (most likely), you're no more qualified than I to say what offends Japanese people. I think the dislike toward the JRPG label comes from fans of said genre, tired of being singled out. I liked WRPGs, but I don't go bleeding everywhere when someone lumps BG2 in with Oblivion and Fable.
matsuringo24 11 months ago
@matsuringo24
Look at how many people use "jrpg" in a negative connotation. How many statements have you seen where people express how "jrpgs" aren't rpgs because you don't "role-play"?
Any game with a narrative has you playing a role; hence, all games with a narrative is a "role-playing game" using the purest definition of the word. These xenophobes confuse "role-play" with "playing as yourself" - see the Elder Scrolls and Fable series, the two series people harp on about being "true" RPGs.
1337rune 11 months ago
@ThanosTsagatos The problem is that it's NOT A GENRE! The Japanese make computer RPGs that belong to a wide range of subgenres; not a single one is called "JRPG". There is no such thing as "WRPG" either. The only people who think otherwise are those who know nothing about game mechanics or the history of videogames.
jfreedan 1 year ago
@jfreedan there are a lot of ways to categorize games , one of them is "JRPG" as long as people like categorizing them like that whats so wrong about it? genres are ways of people to categorize games so other people know what they are going to play, if both of them are happy with "JRPG" why make it otherwise?
also genres are not something that were inventede ages ago by god and cannot be changed, they were made by simple everyday humans, so they can be changed by everyday humans as well
ThanosTsagatos 11 months ago
@ThanosTsagatos Let me ask you this: How is a "JRPG" different from another kind of game? What gameplay mechanics does it have that are uniquely different from those created by "Western" designers? The problem, as I see it, is that JRPG is applied to everything from Japan irregardless of what genre it actually is (ex. roguelike, strategy rpg, action rpg, console style, MMORPG etc) and WRPG to anything made by Americans irregardless of what genre they actually belong to, too.
jfreedan 11 months ago
@jfreedan Although I agree with you, in my experience 'JRPG' has always referred to console-style RPGs. I ask someone what genre Dragon Quest is, they respond JRPG. I ask them what Valkyria Chronicles is, they say strategy RPG. Personally I've never heard anyone refer to a Japanese MMORPG as a JRPG either, maybe trends are slightly different between US and UK or something.
corneliusfingers 11 months ago
@corneliusfingers Try asking them what they consider a Tales of game to be, or Pokemon, or Azure Dreams. Heck, try Googleing "JRPG" and the title of these games-- or the titles of any other games that aren't console-style but are from Japan. You'll find a lot of people actually apply JRPG as a genre label to games that belong in different genres.
jfreedan 11 months ago
That's not right.
Anime is a term that defines japanese animation, all animation from japan will be defined as such, whether it fits the iconic style or not. vice versa, an american team cannot claim to have made an anime, no matter how much it looks like japanese style.
manga however, is a specific style, and can be made anywhere, animated manga is not necessarily called anime.
lusteraliaszero 1 year ago
That's some heavy research, very nice.
DvChappelle 1 year ago
at 0:36 what game is that?
superherox7 1 year ago
@superherox7 LOTR: The Third Age. I have a review for it up on this channel.
jfreedan 1 year ago
I'm happy to support any video that sticks it to these classless pretentious video game journalists.
Thumbs up.
TheRetronomicon 1 year ago
Very good stuff!
EpiquestGame 1 year ago
Ha video game journalist is an oxymoron. Its more like video game blogge or video game sattirists..
EpiquestGame 1 year ago
I am going correct you RPG gamer. You are a biased moron and no one should listen to you. JRPG can be a genre and a industry being one or the other does not cancel the other out. a Genre is a form of art or culture and as such a JRPG can be art or based on "Japanese culture" thus JRPG, you have been served. Oh and also, there is another form of Light RPG that has taken the industry lately... You might know them as games like "Puzzle Quest" look into it, genres can change.
ChaosDirge 1 year ago
@ChaosDirge In order to serve someone you must be able to cook. Computer rpgs below to two genres; a narrative genre (sci-fi, fantasy, etc) and a game mechanics genre (rogue-like, dungeoncrawler, console-style, pc-style, etc). If you disagree then go look at GameFAQs. You will notice that console-style and pc-style are genres and have been recognized as so since the 90s. JRPG is a brand new term invented a couple years ago and describes whatever the reviewer thinks defines japanese computer rpgs
jfreedan 1 year ago
@ChaosDirge My opinion is formed from a position of knowledge about game design, narrative structure and videogame history. Your opinion is based on what again? The opinions of people who received associate or bachelor degrees in journalism, know little about videogames or videogame design, and have often been proven to not actually have played the game they created a review for.
jfreedan 1 year ago
@jfreedan I would like to add that you talk about knowledge, this is good, actually a few times I can tell that you yourself have made a mistake though... though you seem to know that Knowledge is not education, I have seen you guilty of a few things that you seem to contrast. My argument was not on what people think but rather what it is" JRP" you can not describe it as anything else as a RPG that is from Japan, Demon Souls is a JRPG it doesn't fit the biased assumption of one.
ChaosDirge 1 year ago
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TheRetronomicon 1 year ago
@ChaosDirge I suggest you check out my most recent video, "How to be a Good Game Reviewer".
jfreedan 1 year ago
@jfreedan I would also like to state that My knowledge comes from being a person, not a designer, not a journalist, Nothing but a person that loves to play video games and loves to expand his knowledge of literature and art. I have no degree, I am a bum, a knowledgeable bum with too much free time on his hands. I would not meet any criteria to be a reference for knowledge but neither would any sources of the founders of logic. I will continue this debate with you in PMS after I watch.
ChaosDirge 1 year ago
lol i like you ( no homo! ) i mean, u seem to be well informed and u know what ur talking about. thanks! i myself would call many games ( jrpg ) only because it was a quick and easy way of pointing out my favorite kinds of games which are rpg games that are in the anime style. this video pretty much told me to stfu and learn what its really called! lol
ElementalSk81 1 year ago
THANK YOU.
Seriously, I've been growing tired of the constant complaining about 'JRPGs', which to me have always been the definition of RPG. Thank you very much for pitting this out, as this has been getting out of hand.
MegaShadowrunner 1 year ago
Very good points! Thanks for this. I've grown up with games and my favourites are the Final Fantasy series, but I was completely taken in by the 'JRPG' label. In fact, I've been struggling to find a more appropriate term to describe the genre, little did I know there already was one that has been used for years and simply abandoned. Thank you for educating me :)
corneliusfingers 1 year ago
dude. awesome.. good history. i was also a bit pissed that people credit the japanese with the *invention* of the RPG. Japanese style RPG's were ripped from the Ultima Series. Lord Britian was the guy who invented the idea of inventory systems and villages where you could buy armour, weapons etc. And prior to that, goblins, orcs, all of that came from the West, D&D and semi-developed from there the Fighting Fantasy game books.
EvilKris 1 year ago
No. Japan is not a race.
Miisen 1 year ago 15
@Miisen You're a fuckin idiot mate.
13expose13 10 months ago
@13expose13 An idiot with 10 thumbs up
Miisen 10 months ago
@Miisen yeah from ten other little geek idiots like you mate. Do you really think that people in the real world give a flying fuck about thumbs up on youtube? Go outside pal. Try and get a glimpse of a real girl.
13expose13 10 months ago
@Miisen Yeah but Japanese people are a race you goofball fuck.
What a fucking child.
13expose13 10 months ago
@Miisen
1. Race doesn't exist.
2. If Japanese isn't a race, neither is White, Hispanic, Asian, or Black.
3. What on earth counts as a race, and why? Is Alpine and Turanid and Jewish a race?
4. Even if there were worthy official names for race that were better than "Japanese" or "German" or "Jewish", like "white" and "black" which are more commonly acceptable, you could be still be racist towards people who weren't a "race".
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@XubuntuIris To give examples of what I'm talking about. The United States, usually the system of race people go by when saying something is not a race or is, has declared that Jewish people and many Arabs are the same race as Germans. But Nazi Germany considered them a non-German race, a completely different race for Germans. Similarly, Anglo-Americans at one time considered themselves a different race from Eastern Europeans, Finnish, and even Irish people.
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@XubuntuIris South Africa has been noted for essentially considering both Asians and Blacks, of United States terminology, to essentially be the same race, and made little distinction between the two. On the other hand, they made an exception for Japan, and considered them to be the same race as white South Africans. Many Han Chinese, as well, do not consider themselves to be the same race as Altaic Mongolians and Uigurs.
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@XubuntuIris And equally so, many Altaic peoples, particularly Turkish nationalists, do not consider themselves to be of the same race as Europeans or Asians. But instead "Turanids". The Nazis not only did not consider themselves to be a part of the same race as the United States does, but also as a part of a greater, unique Northern European race. Contrasted to "Alpine" types.
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@XubuntuIris The United States culture considered people of Spanish European culture and descent to be of a different race from their own usage of the term "white". While many other people would consider Hispanics instead to be as the same race as Anglo-Americans. And famously, to go back to the Nazi example, the Nazis partially considered themselves to be of the same race as their Japanese allies.
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@XubuntuIris Japanese people, personally consider themselves of the Yamato race, which they have contrasted to pretty much everyone else in the world. They used to use this to contrast themselves with Ainu people, but to make ethnic amends, Japanese people are starting to instead adopt a Jomon concept of race, in which Ainu are being considered Japanese, and many historical "Yamato" figures, are being labeled as "Ainu-like". Many Westerners do not seem to understand this gesture.
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@XubuntuIris The United States once considered any person mixed with someone of African descent, to be be black, under the "one drop" rule. Now, they would be considered instead, "mixed" more than they used to, even though the concept is still more alive that most whites realize. I myself would be considered a black woman, even though my skin is of a fairly light brown. In fact, most black Americans, if not all, are mixed with "white" European blood, and not just African.
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@XubuntuIris In the end, all of these racial terms are accurate, and none of them all. They're all cultural constructs. There's really no such thing as a black person or a white person or a turanid person or an aryan race or an alpine person or so forth. You, the entire world, are just a huge variety of mutants from our "black" African genes. But various people all believe their ethnicity and nationality and culture and appearance are a "race" anyway.
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@XubuntuIris So don't say that "Japanese is not a race", they may not be a race according to your culture, but they are to theirs. They're as much as race as black or white or asian or hispanic is. And if you believe that the latter are more a race than Japanese is, you are being ethnocentric.
That is, not unless you also agree that black isn't a race either. Which I suspect you don't. Your ancestors were once as dark skinned as me... you know...
XubuntuIris 10 months ago
@Miisen It's still a nationality. So that makes the JRPG lable prejedice (against a certain group of people) instead of racist (against a race).
marioskywalker64 9 months ago
@Miisen
Mongoloid, Negroid and Caucasian are also all part of the same race..the human race so stop being so pedantic -.-
tonkrogerio 9 months ago
I just wanna chip in - Language evolves when people start using words/phrases to refer to certain things. JRPG is just a new label for it, and to me that's fine. It's broadly understood what it actually means, which is exactly what the genre label is for.
ParasiticFlame 1 year ago
You seem to forget that there "A LOT" of things that Japanese Anime (I don't think anyone uses the term "Jap'Anime" either) and JRPGS use that are prevalent in all of them. It's mostly culture-specific quirks like how characters act, or long winding speeches, or jokes that don't translate well over here that they try to translate anyway, so it comes off as Uncanny.
Also "Ederick > Loto > Roto"
mavrickindigo 1 year ago
I agree, I still remember how Final Fantasy 8 came out, it was reputable, waited, and in (my country's) journalism in TV it was just called "Role playing game" without much abbreviation - later I read FF XIII review (what I have not played for lack of PS3 or xbox) - but saw it being referred "japanese role playing game" in snarky "can japanese even do western appealing stuff" - I was baffled, since if Final Fantasy Series would not had in past, how would it be run so long now?
SumeaBizarro 1 year ago
@SumeaBizarro This is exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone who thinks that I'm just over-reacting has NOT been paying attention to western game reviewers when they review Japanese made computer rpgs. They will write the game off for simply being Japanese and make outlandish statements that demonstrate poor knowledge of the history of computer rpgs. If you don't think there is racism involved you are blind.
jfreedan 1 year ago
When a game site refers to an rpg as a "jrpg" I always understood it to mean a game influenced by Japanese culture, usually because that is its country of origin. I never understood it to mean a different kind of rpg.
Also, I don't find the term racist at all, I just don't see how it is.
FreakPower70 1 year ago
Regarding the whole racism issue, I think it depends on the intent behind the use of a word, rather than the word itself. If "JRPG" is used in a demeaning manner to racially stereotype Japanese people in a negative way, then there is some subtle racism to it. If it's just used in a neutral manner to generally refer to RPGs developed in Japan, then it's not really racist.
Jagged85 1 year ago 2
I always felt that was the major difference. PC-style RPGs emphasise player freedom and dialogue strings, and are more analogous to traditional tabletop style games, whereas 'Light RPGs', as you call them, are more emotionally involving and have a more linear, albeit well crafted and comprehensively presented story. I should also thank you for your knowledge and research, it's good to be informed on the matter and I can tell from your reviews that you know your shit.
Harkz0r 1 year ago
@Harkz0r Glad you enjoy the videos!
jfreedan 1 year ago
I damn well love you for this. Thank you so much for making this video. You know, I always found it absurd how much vitriol the Western PC-style camp regards the Japanese console-style RPG games. As far as I'm concerned, it's simply unnecessary. I'm saying this as the two most influential RPGs, and quite possibly games, of my entire childhood and early adolescence were, admittedly, Final Fantasy VII and Baldur's Gate II. Can I not appreciate stylistic differences now?
Harkz0r 1 year ago
@Harkz0r
I think a lot of RPG fans are too hung up on the minor differences (most of which are untrue stereotypes) that they ignore the far greater similarities. Beyond the stylistic differences, there is very little to seperate Final Fantasy VII from Baldur's Gate II in terms of gameplay. They both have exploration, hybrid combat, somewhat linear plots, developed characters, dialogue choices, dating sim elements, etc. They both clearly belong to the same genre.
Jagged85 1 year ago
@jfreedan I see your where you are coming, but I hope you can see the confusion when you specifically say "anime is an artstyle and an industry, but not a genre". Personally I think that dropping an entire country under "artstyle" is not very good, especially since you didn't give any backup-info like you did in these comments. I mean, it's like comparing frank miller to John Romita Jr. America has pretty unique terms with producing animation compared to japan. It's all about what the norm is.
Screamingreader 1 year ago
OK, I agree with what you are saying here, but quit playing the Race card. Racism spawns from hate, calling a certain type of RPG "Japanese" is NOT hateful, just ignorance to the origin of that type of RPG or the variation of RPGs that come from Japan. They think of Final Fantasy, they think of Elder Scrolls, and divide the genres based on the countries of origin of these major franchises. It is faulty categorization, NOT racism, dont give me that crap. That word is used too loosely.
Daemonocracy 1 year ago
Comment removed
Daemonocracy 1 year ago
link to pt 2 in description is always nice? but thanks for posting ill go find it myself cuz its fun :D
tyniehawk 1 year ago
@tyniehawk Click the box in the top right of the video to go to the second part :)
jfreedan 1 year ago
Actually, anime only means animation done in Japan and is infact, not an artstyle. The typical artstyle you're thinking of is called shonen and is used in popular animes like naruto, onepiece and bleach. Just found it kind of ironic that you did the same mistake when refering to anime as an artstyle, like the same prominent figures in the gaming industry does wrongly with jrpgs and wrpgs.
Screamingreader 1 year ago
@Screamingreader When I said anime was a unique industry, I was referring to the production style, which is a very distinct variation of limited animation. I don't think shonen is an art style. On the whole, the majority of Japanese pop art descends from Osamu Tezuka's style, which in turn descends from Max Fleischer's style but is also very much based on Meiji period. There is unique Zen aesthetics commonly utilized in Japanese art and its part of the culture.
jfreedan 1 year ago
Lol you fuck wit, if your going to be angry at people then you could at least know what the terms you are using mean
Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. ...
What you mean to say about calling games JRPG is stereotyping or prejudice, not racist.
SURPLUSNiNjA 1 year ago
@SURPLUSNiNjA I think you're arguing semantics.
jfreedan 1 year ago
@jfreedan how does what kind of games a group of people make have an impact on if they are inferior. The point is, if you are going make a argument you might as well not mess it up. You imply that the proper terms for racist prejudice or whatever don't matter, but then why does JRPG vs Light or console rpg matter. It gets the point across. If you don't care to preserve the true meaning of the term racism for concise and accurate description why do you care so much about genre names?
SURPLUSNiNjA 1 year ago
@SURPLUSNiNjA My argument isn't about semantics. My argument is to use a genre label that has existed for two decades, not one that was recently invented by a few game reviewers who know little about the history of computer rpgs and judge games by their country of origin and graphics, not by their actual mechanics.
jfreedan 1 year ago
@jfreedan You see the thing is, the bulk majority of main stream games that come over seas from Japan/Asian countries fit under those stereotypes.Despite the terms inaccuracies for the most part the games they review and the people reading them it works an works well.But hey I don't see why you have an issue with a term missuses like the difference between console rpgs and "JPRG" or Racism and stereotypes, I mean clearly you didn't just make a whole set of videos about misuse of categorizations
SURPLUSNiNjA 1 year ago