As for the sulfurs effect on the propellant it acts as a catalyst and lowers the ignition temperature (as I have learned in my experiments with flash powder) a common Ratio for Nitrate flash is 5:3:2 (KNO3:S:Al) I would use the finest aluminum you could find, try Pyrotechnics companies online like Skylighters or Starmolecule <---(that's all they sell)
and if you don't melt it first before casting your grain i would highly recommend it .
@rhelbren The effective velocity of the exhaust is found by dividing the total impulse (Ns) of the motor by the mass in kilograms of fuel that is burned in the test.
@BuddytheChimp When only aluminium is added, the fuel does not seem to burn hot enough to ignite it or doesn't supply enough oxygen when in a motor casing to support combustion. It may also be that the sulfur reacts with the aluminium in some way that causes it to combust. Either way, without the sulfur the aluminium doesn't ignite but i'm not exactly sure why.
did you have an excess of kno3? The Al plus some finely powdered iron oxide incorporated first, will increase the temp of the fuel. This may cause peak pressures above your design.
@rmoss15 Can you tell me how you prepare the fuel, and the ratio? I don't know what's more effective, the fuel that you just mix in powdered form, or the one that you combine homogenously?
Please describe how you made the second formula. If you used "flowers of sulfur" you are lucky it didn't blow up when mixing. I learned the hard way to use sulfur flour instead.
@rmoss15 You third test with aluminum added looked like a finer grade of Al powder would have given better burning. Did you melt the second formula as usually done with 'candy' propellants?
@randy12368 I use the same clay for nozzles too; add just enough water to the dry powder to form it into the consistency of 'Play Dough'. Compress it into shape onto a core inserted into the casing and let dry thoroughly. If the dough is too wet it shrinks and will not properly adhere to the sides of the casing. The clay is cheap! You can get it at any good hardware store or home center, it's called 'Rock Hard" and is used as wood filler. Reusing nozzles isn't necessary or advisable.
@pablo105diablo Too many people try to make it themselves but you can actually get it commercially from local pharmacies. Try to find a "compounding" pharmacy, they are used to selling large quantities of random chemicals. And don't be surprised if you get shot down a couple of times, I had to go to 4 different pharmacies before I found one that would sell it to me. They were all the same chain too, except for some reason they all had different rules of what they can and can't do
@seldian That depends on the size and shape of the fuel grain, if it is long with a core you obtain an enormous amount of thrust (if the casing can handle the pressure) and if it is longer with only a partial core you will get a higher initial thrust with a longer lasting low thrust period.
@PyroTimo This is a previous comment @nickalisse You find the Isp by dividing the Total Impulse (Ns) by the Mass of the propellant (Kg) and dividing by 9.8. e.g 40 Ns from 35g of propellant would be 40 divided by 0.035 = 1142.8571 1142.8571 divided by 9.8 = an Isp of around 117 sec Multiplying the Isp by 9.8 or just leaving out the the division of 9.8 in the sum leaves you with the effective exhaust velocity. = ~1143 m/s
@Caswalle I have not tried that, but it does not work with NH4ClO4 as the fuel does no solidify when in a usable mixture and does not burn very stable.
I think that how fine the aluminum is has something to do with it. I think that when the water is present the aluminum should be added with the sulfur. Once it becomes a past, I would add red iron oxide. That usually cuts the burn time in half, and in theory twice the thrust. I don't see how adding red iron oxide ever gets hot enough to produce a reaction seen from thermite. Maybe, the sulfur will get it hot enough. It's not composting well enough. A higher temperature equals more thrust.
I've got the direct link to ROBUST amateur research on aluminised candy for you (in Russian with local autotranslation link), but I can't post it here - it seems to be forbidden here...
@rmoss15 Yes I meant his work. I read it several years ago and almost forgot its details. I reread it now and recall that main trick there was pretty high (for paper casing) pressure required in combustion chamber to burn aluminum. Sorbitol + aluminum doesn't work properly in light weight flying motors. I don't know whether he test any catalytic addition and sugar instead sorbitol.
Now I work on cheap sugar nozzless sparky micromotors (cast-iron dust), for pyrotechnical purposes. It doesn't work for now in the motor too, but I suspect in the nearest future I'll solve the problem.
@schabanow I have done experiments with nozzless rockets and found that to obtain enough pressure for a reasonable amount of thrust and Specific Impulse the fuel grain needed to be very long and only cored for 3/4 of the length of the grain. (I had a lot of problems with the grain shooting itself out of the casing because of the pressure behind the grain). Good Luck with your experiments.
@rmoss15 Wow... Contrary I think nozzless motors MUST entirely substitute traditional ones. Almost completely! There is no generally accessible and distinct theory on the subject so far, but I suspect some physical mechanism does work (and perfectly) of combustion chamber pressure and Kn' natural regulation...
I cannot understand why your motors spit their grains - probably some technological mistakes... It is of great surprise for me to learn about your problem with nozzless motors.
@rmoss15 For last two years I make nozzless sugar of 15 .. 50 g motors almost exceptionally. Many dozens of launches - no CATO.
No inhibition - bound grain. No thermal insulation. No nozzle. => More fuel and less casing. => Almost the same total impulse... What else an amateur rocketeer can wish?
@rmoss15 Hole core I make just through the whole grain' length, up to bulkhead. Bulkhead' end of the grain always inhibited by epoxy bulkhead : resin just over the fuel (core hole is fixed up with a lttle ball of my daughter' plasticine). I use cheap ordinary epoxy - it fastenes in about thwehty minutes under 40W bulb (1 .. 2 cm from bulb' glass).
Hey, just try and enjoy it ! Forget and forgive all those nozzles - just enjoy your hobby! ))
@rmoss15 End burner is the only exception regarding nozzle / nozzless dilemma for me. But end burner's range of application is rather narrow because of acceptable thrust' impossibility - for second stages only I think... For there is no affordable amateur mixtures with burnrates of cm/sec' level.
Are you aquainted to Richard Nakka Rocketry Site? I'm afraid it would not be exaggeration to say it is alpha and omega of amateur experimental rocketry nowadays.
So you apply bound grains. It's not recommended to fasten solid brittle fuel to rather elastic casing, but this simplification would be pretty OK for small calibres... Apropos, did you try ELASTIC CANDY based upon ethylene glycole (antifreeze mixture)?
***
Did you crack test-tablet while you were cooking your fuel? I still suspect your fuel contained much of residual water... How much WET was your bentonite CLAY and how much time elapsed from the moment of ramming to the moment of burning?
@schabanow Yes, I use the crack test-tablet to determine whether or not the fuel is ready to be cast into grains, The bentonite clay was not wet and roughly 45 minutes past from when I rammed the nozzle to when the motors were fired. I have tried using ethylene glycol to make the fuel more elastic but found that the fuel became more hygroscopic with it added, maybe it is just the brand i used but it was the only one I could find locally.
Videoed burning time is obviously MUCH more prolonged than declared one. All the parameters are strongly seemed to be pure theoretical, not measured... What is Kn of those motors? What is geometry of granes? They work just like end-burners, POOR end-burners with extremely slow rise and fall of the thrust...
I 'm afraid you have a lot of problems to work at.
@schabanow If you watch the video more closely you would notice the moment about 0.3 seconds after the motor has lit when the thrust is at its peak and then trails off into smoke trail which is slightly overpowered, though it is a method of using excess fuel for something more than garden fertiliser. The Kn ratio of all the motors was calculated to be between 80 and 85 and the geometry was a single inhibited grain. If you still doubt the accuracy I can send you the Thrust / Time curves recorded.
@rmoss15 I think if you wanna make your video MUCH more advanced, you should insert EXPERIMENTAL curves (not theoretical ones from SRM-like software) direct into clip - it is not too difficult.
What kind of thrustmeter was used? Old mechanical kitchen scales gives a lot of info...
I saw MANY videos and real motors proper working, and I can say by my modest experience that yours have enormous rise / fall thrust time. These two sectors of thrust profile do steal a lot of motor' total impulse...
@schabanow I used an Aerocon systems load connected to a Dataq DI-158u data acquisition unit which sent the data to my computer. There are not two sectors of thrust profile in this motor, there is the fuel grain which is what I base my data on and there is the smoke trail which is simply leftover fuel. And thrust profile of all the motors which is typical of any motor with a single inhibited grain was progressive with a sharp drop off in thrust as the propellant was used up.
@rmoss15 I still can't understand... Do you mean you used coreless granes (any hole)? End-burners? In PVC cases? What kind of thermal insulation was there then?
@rmoss15 I see. Electronic thrustmeter is OK, I think you should insert its curves into your future clips. Can you present filmed curves here? What shape of progressive profile gave those motors? Triangle, saw-tooth? Whether grain' ends were inhibited as well as outer surface? I bet they were inhibited...
@rmoss15 Did you crack test-tablet while you were cooking your fuel? I still suspect your fuel contained much of residual water... To speak more substantially I need your curves however...
Inhibitor does not protect a case. Inhibitor prevents inhibited fuel' surfaces from burning front' spreading. In other words inhibitor does determine selected Kn max.
@schabanow Yes that is true and I was a bit ambiguous about it. Instead of using a casing liner I simply inhibit the fuel grain to the point that it is tight against the casing wall to prevent any flames from reaching the casing wall, this method I feel provides adequate protection for small PVC motors with such small burn times.
@KleinerSprengmeister As I say to most people, I have never had an accident occur, though it never hurts to be on the safe side so wear safety glasses and turn the heating element off as you add it.
If you add about 14g of karo sourp to the control groop and cook it up with 30ml of water then add 1g of red iron oxide after it becomes a paste like substance. The red iron oxide will double the burn rate of the propellent and make it have a higher thrust force.
Try this and see how it goes. If you want to know more about how to make this kind of propellent look up "airgunsniper" and then find the video which tells you how to make it.
ive found all sugar rockets have a very quick burn time and dont gain a great deal of altitude. What kind of configuration/setup does one need to get a good altitude?
So AL does add some more thrust ? Looks like you got some unburned AL coming out the exhaust? Maybe the al was not fine enough or mixed badly or lower the amount a bit? Still you did a good job on keeping records.
Pretty impressive! 1st I wanna say dat I don't question ur calculation. My concern is only to fully understand de math. From wat I see, u only have de burn rate, so...
Where do u get ur first 40 N?Do u have some kind of device to mesure the F deployed? I mean: F=ma, but there is no movement, so how do u mesure the speed? My physic is far behind, so I thank u in advance to refresh my memory.
@mike2223312 HI! Sorry for the improper writting, but it was because I didn't have enough space to explain my self properly. So, I decided to use abbreviations. As for an example 4 = for, dat = that etc, etc. I don't know, if it was what you were refering to. If not, feel free to correct my english, I always tend to ameliorate my self, so I won't mind at all. Sincerely and thank you.
@nickalisse Not a problem, the only reason i said that was because you seem very intelligent, so if you speak it you are very intelligent. you dont have to speak black to build rockets lol.
I've made homemade Thermite by using a Coffee Grinder to grind Aluminium Foil. The more confined container is more effective then a blender. I have also tried a blender, and I couldn't make any usable powder from it.
alluminium fillings can be used to make thermte. you cant use that for flash.That will really need the very finne alluminium powder. The fillings can be mixed with 5% weigth stearin and ballmilled for WEEKS. will gieve you a nicely alluminium powder.
The crude shaping that I did put into the bentonite clay nozzle was around the ratio of 4:1 which is probably under-expanded but it leads to a very large spectacular flame instead of the long thin one usually produced.
Is it possible for a mix using caramelized sugar + KNO3 + al powder to spontaneously ignite and/or explode? I doubt it will, but I want to ask more experienced ppl.
I have a grain of fuel from 6months ago in my garage with 60-30-10 KNO3, Sucrose and Al and it still hasn't gone off spontaneously so I think it is pretty safe.
How did you measure the velocity of the exhaust?
As for the sulfurs effect on the propellant it acts as a catalyst and lowers the ignition temperature (as I have learned in my experiments with flash powder) a common Ratio for Nitrate flash is 5:3:2 (KNO3:S:Al) I would use the finest aluminum you could find, try Pyrotechnics companies online like Skylighters or Starmolecule <---(that's all they sell)
and if you don't melt it first before casting your grain i would highly recommend it .
rhelbren 1 week ago
@rhelbren The effective velocity of the exhaust is found by dividing the total impulse (Ns) of the motor by the mass in kilograms of fuel that is burned in the test.
rmoss15 1 week ago
I feel stuipid asking this, and im probaly not gonna get a responce. But what would happen if you didnt add sulfer, just aluminum
BuddytheChimp 3 weeks ago
@BuddytheChimp When only aluminium is added, the fuel does not seem to burn hot enough to ignite it or doesn't supply enough oxygen when in a motor casing to support combustion. It may also be that the sulfur reacts with the aluminium in some way that causes it to combust. Either way, without the sulfur the aluminium doesn't ignite but i'm not exactly sure why.
rmoss15 3 weeks ago
what was you nozzel?
XBiteABulletX 3 weeks ago
did you have an excess of kno3? The Al plus some finely powdered iron oxide incorporated first, will increase the temp of the fuel. This may cause peak pressures above your design.
DAFANNIN 1 month ago
@DAFANNIN yes a slight excess of KNO3 was used in this propellant
rmoss15 1 month ago
@rmoss15 Can you tell me how you prepare the fuel, and the ratio? I don't know what's more effective, the fuel that you just mix in powdered form, or the one that you combine homogenously?
Morganive 1 month ago
i liked the last one
MrBomboys 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Compacted or cooked??
007lugi 2 months ago
was it compacted or cooked ????
rocket101ize 2 months ago
Please describe how you made the second formula. If you used "flowers of sulfur" you are lucky it didn't blow up when mixing. I learned the hard way to use sulfur flour instead.
bulruq 2 months ago
@bulruq I bought my sulfur from a chemical supply as "99% pure lab grade"
rmoss15 2 months ago
@rmoss15 You third test with aluminum added looked like a finer grade of Al powder would have given better burning. Did you melt the second formula as usually done with 'candy' propellants?
bulruq 2 months ago
How did you make the nozzle out of the clay and do you have to make a new nozzle for each motor or is it reusable? Thanks in advance
randy12368 2 months ago
@randy12368 I use the same clay for nozzles too; add just enough water to the dry powder to form it into the consistency of 'Play Dough'. Compress it into shape onto a core inserted into the casing and let dry thoroughly. If the dough is too wet it shrinks and will not properly adhere to the sides of the casing. The clay is cheap! You can get it at any good hardware store or home center, it's called 'Rock Hard" and is used as wood filler. Reusing nozzles isn't necessary or advisable.
bulruq 2 months ago
Still making rockets? Great Work :)
rachetomodele 2 months ago
did you fake up the information (avg thrust , max thrust, etc)?
stevenliang96 2 months ago
@stevenliang96 No i used a load cell that put the thrust information into an excel file and worked out the other statistics from that.
rmoss15 2 months ago
where would one be able to buy KNO3? is there any form sold commercially? and great video :)
pablo105diablo 2 months ago
@pablo105diablo Too many people try to make it themselves but you can actually get it commercially from local pharmacies. Try to find a "compounding" pharmacy, they are used to selling large quantities of random chemicals. And don't be surprised if you get shot down a couple of times, I had to go to 4 different pharmacies before I found one that would sell it to me. They were all the same chain too, except for some reason they all had different rules of what they can and can't do
sPaWnSMASH1337 2 months ago
how long into the cooking process did you add the sulfur?
TheKidfresh04 2 months ago
I like the 2nd one...it would be interesting to see the thrust curve for that.
davetherocketguy 3 months ago
Would adding powdered magnesium improve things?
Sprekitek 3 months ago
@Sprekitek Not as much as powdered aluminum, which is much cheaper to boot!
bulruq 2 months ago
why the hell are there even dislikes wtf. 3 ppl are gay as f
chickenvsbigdog 3 months ago
Compacted or cooked??
BonzoMadrid1 4 months ago 4
@rmoss15 when you mixed the aluminum powder and sulfur, did you cook all together?? if not, how did you mix them?
bruceleeking1 4 months ago
youtube.com/watch?v=YmDBRFnVGqM
007lugi 4 months ago
iyour exhaust velocity can't be higher than the speed of sound without a special nozzle!!
speed of sound: 343.2 m/s
your velocity: ~800 m/s
007lugi 4 months ago
@007lugi stupid motherfucker is saying something ridiculous
ExtremeCrackhead 2 months ago
@ExtremeCrackhead sorry for fucking your fat stupid mother
007lugi 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@007lugi 'where's your 'problem?
ExtremeCrackhead 2 months ago
press 1,4,7 for all three results
bruceleeking1 4 months ago
hi please help me i have done every thing on all other youtube channels but i am not getting any thrust plese can you help
MrCommonlane 4 months ago
First of all amazing,subbed and liked second what casing did you use and how did you make it thanks!!!
AnonOPify 4 months ago 3
@AnonOPify The casing was 15mm ID PVC pipe with bentonite clay as the nozzle and end plug.
rmoss15 4 months ago
@rmoss15 Thanks but would it possible if you make a vid on how to make a kno3 and sugar rocket engine with what material etc
AnonOPify 4 months ago
@rmoss15 PVC? shit, how didn't it melt when the fire was on? o.O
megvagyimmartizenyol 2 months ago
If you make the rocket motor longer will you gain more thrust/ avg thrust?
seldian 5 months ago
@seldian That depends on the size and shape of the fuel grain, if it is long with a core you obtain an enormous amount of thrust (if the casing can handle the pressure) and if it is longer with only a partial core you will get a higher initial thrust with a longer lasting low thrust period.
rmoss15 4 months ago
@rmoss15 By core and partial core do you mean how far i drill down the center?
seldian 4 months ago
@seldian yes thats right
rmoss15 4 months ago
Excellent tests!
seldian 5 months ago
How did you pack the fuel in the rocket????
SquirrelHunter1100 5 months ago
Hey how fine was your Aluminium?
You may get a more stable burn with 2500 Mesh+ (5micron)
ReeceAndersonable 5 months ago
how you built the nozzle
donorful 5 months ago
how u make it
gapito99 6 months ago
@Izardtian I got mine at an incense shop for $4 a lb. Find a local wican incense store I'n your area, or a gardening supply store.
wannaparty247 7 months ago
where do you get sulphur these days???
izardtian 7 months ago
@izardtian It's also a fertaliser and good for treating some types of infections so you can find it everywhere.
TheMilopeach 7 months ago
@izardtian If you're having trouble finding some, you can find it cheap on Amazon.
Raddan2010 5 months ago
Lol, #3 was badass.
VVillowz 8 months ago
how do you make the nozzle?
TheBlabla1996 9 months ago
that was sick
gregpirolo 9 months ago
What causes the disruptions? Are impurities / clots blocking the nozzle on and off?
tsbrownie 9 months ago
How did you do to find the exhaust velocity ?
PyroTimo 10 months ago
rmoss15 10 months ago
@rmoss15 Very nice !!!! Thank you a lot !!
PyroTimo 10 months ago
@rmoss15 More effectivley, you could divide by 0.981, It's only 1 decimal place but gravity is considered to be 0.981. Just a little help.
Also, Can we get a Tutorial on it if you already havn't got one. (Searching now).
TheMilopeach 7 months ago
What was the size of your nozzle and tube? And was it PVC? Great tests. thanks for the upload.
DittoHead667 10 months ago
@DittoHead667
Nozzle Diameter = 4-5mm
Tube = 22mm OD and 18mm ID
Yes it was PVC
rmoss15 10 months ago
its cooked,or only compacted?
cornercat 10 months ago
wowowoowowowow !!!! Fantastic It's very power !!!
TheTeofly 10 months ago
Needs more oxygen in the burn.
Billbobaker 11 months ago
can you make R candy with chlorate???
Caswalle 11 months ago
@Caswalle I have not tried that, but it does not work with NH4ClO4 as the fuel does no solidify when in a usable mixture and does not burn very stable.
rmoss15 11 months ago
@Caswalle I tried a whole load of times but all i ended up doing was burning myself repeatedly
chlorate mixtures are very easy to set off so it just exploded in the pan when i was stirring it and burnt my hand lol
blahdob 11 months ago
@blahdob sorry for giving you that idea...
Caswalle 11 months ago
@Caswalle nah i did it years ago,
I've got KNO3 now though and it's much more successful, just buy some off the internet ^^
blahdob 11 months ago
I think that how fine the aluminum is has something to do with it. I think that when the water is present the aluminum should be added with the sulfur. Once it becomes a past, I would add red iron oxide. That usually cuts the burn time in half, and in theory twice the thrust. I don't see how adding red iron oxide ever gets hot enough to produce a reaction seen from thermite. Maybe, the sulfur will get it hot enough. It's not composting well enough. A higher temperature equals more thrust.
FlavoredCoffeeGuy 11 months ago
how doy you make that the begining of the rocket burn strat rellay fast like explosion ? you put some black powder?
XBiteABulletX 1 year ago
@XBiteABulletX No black powder, just good grain geometry.
rmoss15 11 months ago
@rmoss15 Can you send me a tutorial or some pics please?
XBiteABulletX 11 months ago
@XBiteABulletX you don,t want tutorial from this guy
DrunkKnight 11 months ago
how do you calculate impulse,max thrust,avg thrust,specific impulse and the exhaust
valocity?
TobiusProject 1 year ago
What is the length and diameter of your nozzles.
JackMeoffsloe 1 year ago
that third one was powerfull !
nice tests
propyropower 1 year ago
really helpful!
japin123 1 year ago
So I assume you're not fresher at rocketry. )
I've got the direct link to ROBUST amateur research on aluminised candy for you (in Russian with local autotranslation link), but I can't post it here - it seems to be forbidden here...
schabanow 1 year ago
@schabanow Yeah, I know the one it's by Serge Pipko I think and he added it to the KN/Sorbitol propellant.
rmoss15 1 year ago
@rmoss15 Yes I meant his work. I read it several years ago and almost forgot its details. I reread it now and recall that main trick there was pretty high (for paper casing) pressure required in combustion chamber to burn aluminum. Sorbitol + aluminum doesn't work properly in light weight flying motors. I don't know whether he test any catalytic addition and sugar instead sorbitol.
schabanow 1 year ago
@rmoss15
Now I work on cheap sugar nozzless sparky micromotors (cast-iron dust), for pyrotechnical purposes. It doesn't work for now in the motor too, but I suspect in the nearest future I'll solve the problem.
schabanow 1 year ago
@schabanow I have done experiments with nozzless rockets and found that to obtain enough pressure for a reasonable amount of thrust and Specific Impulse the fuel grain needed to be very long and only cored for 3/4 of the length of the grain. (I had a lot of problems with the grain shooting itself out of the casing because of the pressure behind the grain). Good Luck with your experiments.
rmoss15 1 year ago
@rmoss15 Wow... Contrary I think nozzless motors MUST entirely substitute traditional ones. Almost completely! There is no generally accessible and distinct theory on the subject so far, but I suspect some physical mechanism does work (and perfectly) of combustion chamber pressure and Kn' natural regulation...
I cannot understand why your motors spit their grains - probably some technological mistakes... It is of great surprise for me to learn about your problem with nozzless motors.
schabanow 1 year ago
@rmoss15 For last two years I make nozzless sugar of 15 .. 50 g motors almost exceptionally. Many dozens of launches - no CATO.
No inhibition - bound grain. No thermal insulation. No nozzle. => More fuel and less casing. => Almost the same total impulse... What else an amateur rocketeer can wish?
schabanow 1 year ago
@rmoss15 Hole core I make just through the whole grain' length, up to bulkhead. Bulkhead' end of the grain always inhibited by epoxy bulkhead : resin just over the fuel (core hole is fixed up with a lttle ball of my daughter' plasticine). I use cheap ordinary epoxy - it fastenes in about thwehty minutes under 40W bulb (1 .. 2 cm from bulb' glass).
Hey, just try and enjoy it ! Forget and forgive all those nozzles - just enjoy your hobby! ))
schabanow 1 year ago
@rmoss15 End burner is the only exception regarding nozzle / nozzless dilemma for me. But end burner's range of application is rather narrow because of acceptable thrust' impossibility - for second stages only I think... For there is no affordable amateur mixtures with burnrates of cm/sec' level.
It's a pity, but life's going on! )
schabanow 1 year ago
Are you aquainted to Richard Nakka Rocketry Site? I'm afraid it would not be exaggeration to say it is alpha and omega of amateur experimental rocketry nowadays.
schabanow 1 year ago
@schabanow I am familiar with Richard Nakka's work and learned a lot from it when I was first starting with my rocketry hobby.
rmoss15 1 year ago
So you apply bound grains. It's not recommended to fasten solid brittle fuel to rather elastic casing, but this simplification would be pretty OK for small calibres... Apropos, did you try ELASTIC CANDY based upon ethylene glycole (antifreeze mixture)?
***
Did you crack test-tablet while you were cooking your fuel? I still suspect your fuel contained much of residual water... How much WET was your bentonite CLAY and how much time elapsed from the moment of ramming to the moment of burning?
schabanow 1 year ago
@schabanow Yes, I use the crack test-tablet to determine whether or not the fuel is ready to be cast into grains, The bentonite clay was not wet and roughly 45 minutes past from when I rammed the nozzle to when the motors were fired. I have tried using ethylene glycol to make the fuel more elastic but found that the fuel became more hygroscopic with it added, maybe it is just the brand i used but it was the only one I could find locally.
rmoss15 1 year ago
Khm...
Videoed burning time is obviously MUCH more prolonged than declared one. All the parameters are strongly seemed to be pure theoretical, not measured... What is Kn of those motors? What is geometry of granes? They work just like end-burners, POOR end-burners with extremely slow rise and fall of the thrust...
I 'm afraid you have a lot of problems to work at.
schabanow 1 year ago
@schabanow If you watch the video more closely you would notice the moment about 0.3 seconds after the motor has lit when the thrust is at its peak and then trails off into smoke trail which is slightly overpowered, though it is a method of using excess fuel for something more than garden fertiliser. The Kn ratio of all the motors was calculated to be between 80 and 85 and the geometry was a single inhibited grain. If you still doubt the accuracy I can send you the Thrust / Time curves recorded.
rmoss15 1 year ago
@rmoss15 I think if you wanna make your video MUCH more advanced, you should insert EXPERIMENTAL curves (not theoretical ones from SRM-like software) direct into clip - it is not too difficult.
What kind of thrustmeter was used? Old mechanical kitchen scales gives a lot of info...
I saw MANY videos and real motors proper working, and I can say by my modest experience that yours have enormous rise / fall thrust time. These two sectors of thrust profile do steal a lot of motor' total impulse...
schabanow 1 year ago
@schabanow I used an Aerocon systems load connected to a Dataq DI-158u data acquisition unit which sent the data to my computer. There are not two sectors of thrust profile in this motor, there is the fuel grain which is what I base my data on and there is the smoke trail which is simply leftover fuel. And thrust profile of all the motors which is typical of any motor with a single inhibited grain was progressive with a sharp drop off in thrust as the propellant was used up.
rmoss15 1 year ago
@rmoss15 I still can't understand... Do you mean you used coreless granes (any hole)? End-burners? In PVC cases? What kind of thermal insulation was there then?
schabanow 1 year ago
@schabanow The fuel grains had a core 4.5mm in diameter hence the Kn ratio of 80 and had a paper and aluminium inhibitor to protect the casing.
rmoss15 1 year ago
@rmoss15 I see. Electronic thrustmeter is OK, I think you should insert its curves into your future clips. Can you present filmed curves here? What shape of progressive profile gave those motors? Triangle, saw-tooth? Whether grain' ends were inhibited as well as outer surface? I bet they were inhibited...
schabanow 1 year ago
@rmoss15 Did you crack test-tablet while you were cooking your fuel? I still suspect your fuel contained much of residual water... To speak more substantially I need your curves however...
schabanow 1 year ago
@rmoss15
> inhibitor to protect the casing
Inhibitor does not protect a case. Inhibitor prevents inhibited fuel' surfaces from burning front' spreading. In other words inhibitor does determine selected Kn max.
schabanow 1 year ago
@schabanow Yes that is true and I was a bit ambiguous about it. Instead of using a casing liner I simply inhibit the fuel grain to the point that it is tight against the casing wall to prevent any flames from reaching the casing wall, this method I feel provides adequate protection for small PVC motors with such small burn times.
rmoss15 1 year ago
@KleinerSprengmeister As I say to most people, I have never had an accident occur, though it never hurts to be on the safe side so wear safety glasses and turn the heating element off as you add it.
rmoss15 1 year ago
Nice...
N37BU6 1 year ago
@KleinerSprengmeister Yes, these used cooked r-candy fuel.
rmoss15 1 year ago
How did the rocket nozzles ??
pirotechnik964 1 year ago
@pirotechnik964 The nozzles of these rockets are rammed bentonite clay.
rmoss15 1 year ago
Thats coool maaan i'm going to make avery large one :)
ipc353 1 year ago
dont make large amounts of that one with aluminium, cause it can explode.
tuipale 1 year ago
what do you use for nozzles? how do you make them stay in without blowing up?
MrPillyg 1 year ago
awesoooome dude rely cool
Rady610 1 year ago
If you add about 14g of karo sourp to the control groop and cook it up with 30ml of water then add 1g of red iron oxide after it becomes a paste like substance. The red iron oxide will double the burn rate of the propellent and make it have a higher thrust force.
Try this and see how it goes. If you want to know more about how to make this kind of propellent look up "airgunsniper" and then find the video which tells you how to make it.
This procedure works the best for me.
shadowkno3 1 year ago
awesome
Rady610 1 year ago
Your last example seems to "pop" as it's burning. Is that due to small air pockets in the mixture?
SketchyAussie 1 year ago
:D XD rofl i like...
teach meh
cusson27 1 year ago
Awesome!
illeskesee 1 year ago
not bad i dont know anything about it though im guessing its not spost to pop like that right?
heathfiedler 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
1051,19 m/s = 3783,6 km/h = 2351.02 m/h = IMPOSSIBLE for a kn03 rocket.
RSaddon 1 year ago
1051,19 m/s = 3783,6 km/h = 2351.02 m/h = OMPOSSIBLE for a kn03 rocket.
RSaddon 1 year ago
ive found all sugar rockets have a very quick burn time and dont gain a great deal of altitude. What kind of configuration/setup does one need to get a good altitude?
kobasica 1 year ago
Was this cooked/caramelised or just mixed in powder form and compacted?
SuperChevy446 1 year ago
i liked test 2 better
Caswalle 1 year ago
So AL does add some more thrust ? Looks like you got some unburned AL coming out the exhaust? Maybe the al was not fine enough or mixed badly or lower the amount a bit? Still you did a good job on keeping records.
johnknoefler 1 year ago
Cool! don't you have any vid's of how to make a rocket?
thx
Zander2528 1 year ago
Pretty impressive! 1st I wanna say dat I don't question ur calculation. My concern is only to fully understand de math. From wat I see, u only have de burn rate, so...
Where do u get ur first 40 N?Do u have some kind of device to mesure the F deployed? I mean: F=ma, but there is no movement, so how do u mesure the speed? My physic is far behind, so I thank u in advance to refresh my memory.
nickalisse 1 year ago
@nickalisse
Basically that figure is derived from the specific impulse (Isp) and is an average of the whole burn time, you find the Isp by
dividing the Total Impulse (Ns) by the Mass of the propellant (Kg) and dividing by 9.8.
e.g 40 Ns from 35g of propellant would be
40 divided by 0.035 = 1142.8571
1142.8571 divided by 9.8
= an Isp of around 117 sec
Multiplying the Isp by 9.8 or just leaving out the the division of 9.8 in the sum leaves you with the effective exhaust velocity.
= ~1143 m/s
rmoss15 1 year ago
@nickalisse
I use a load cell connected to my computer to measure the thrust produced by the rocket.
rmoss15 1 year ago
@nickalisse please learn to speak better.
mike2223312 1 year ago
@mike2223312 HI! Sorry for the improper writting, but it was because I didn't have enough space to explain my self properly. So, I decided to use abbreviations. As for an example 4 = for, dat = that etc, etc. I don't know, if it was what you were refering to. If not, feel free to correct my english, I always tend to ameliorate my self, so I won't mind at all. Sincerely and thank you.
nickalisse 1 year ago
@nickalisse Not a problem, the only reason i said that was because you seem very intelligent, so if you speak it you are very intelligent. you dont have to speak black to build rockets lol.
mike2223312 1 year ago
how to make this amazing thing
sidhuripudamansingh 1 year ago
dude that is awsome
jailbird153 1 year ago
great!!!
johnsenzanome 1 year ago
You are the Best!!!
Congratulations
johnsenzanome 1 year ago
Its pretty awsome but will the 60 kno3 and 30 sugar rocket fly? Mine didnt any idea on how to make it work?
litiist 1 year ago
@litiist It does fly very well and I have a video up that shows how to make the exact same fuel.
rmoss15 1 year ago
Its like me after gian peas-eating!thx for up.!!!
Dvoracekmara 1 year ago
numi palce
sibiloi 1 year ago
not like what you made me and him can lead me to the store Sami cunpar
sibiloi 1 year ago
what do you guys mean when u say "grain"?
garranechan 1 year ago
ingredients please
tuttanonPr0ducT1on 1 year ago
@tuttanonPr0ducT1on
it sais it in the vid. cook it with 15.5 part corn syrup and 60 parts water
garranechan 1 year ago
What diameter is youre nozzel opening, and what inner diameter on tube?
Viking0fNorway 1 year ago
3rd one is unstable
catips23 1 year ago
its a smoke bomb aswell
redbullstef 1 year ago
saltpeter is the same as kno3 right?
war3editor 1 year ago
@war3editor Yep.
pyr0ph1L 1 year ago
nice stuff
crunchey4 1 year ago
oh nice
szilkin 1 year ago
that was crazyyy cool
PRxPAPO 1 year ago
nice! i liked the 2nd and 3d the best.
Ardarail 1 year ago
impressive.... very impressive...5/5
anonarob 1 year ago
this may be illegal...... but can u PLEASE!!!!! send me the ingedents and cookin directions on this? good video 2:)
adamtreyhyatt 1 year ago
I have a video on youtube that shows how to do it.
rmoss15 1 year ago
wow!
AirrowRocket 1 year ago
nice!
bigmannick2 2 years ago
Holy shit! nice work keep it up!!
DORC101 2 years ago
i think that the fuel + S + Al is not stable enough. fuel + S was nice
user21XXL 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrRaketas 2 years ago
Reduce the sugar, still its too much carbon. Have you tried thermite instead of alloy?
VincentVeritas 2 years ago
@VincentVeritas thermite is incredibly hard to make...you need aluminum powder which you can't really even get if you put it in a blender
Qwerty48121 2 years ago
I've made homemade Thermite by using a Coffee Grinder to grind Aluminium Foil. The more confined container is more effective then a blender. I have also tried a blender, and I couldn't make any usable powder from it.
Stopbeingfaggots 2 years ago
does that destroy the coffee grinder though?
Qwerty48121 2 years ago
alluminium fillings can be used to make thermte. you cant use that for flash.That will really need the very finne alluminium powder. The fillings can be mixed with 5% weigth stearin and ballmilled for WEEKS. will gieve you a nicely alluminium powder.
adriiPortillo 2 years ago
How to calculate Avg. thrust?
MrRaketas 2 years ago
Total impulse (Newton Seconds) divided by the amount of time the motor burned for.
e.g 40 Newton Seconds divided by 2 seconds equals
Avg Thrust of 20 Newtons
rmoss15 2 years ago
3rd test produced highest thrust/weight ratio. What is the expansion ratio for the nozzle? I would use about 8 to 10:1.
Bowyerma 2 years ago
The crude shaping that I did put into the bentonite clay nozzle was around the ratio of 4:1 which is probably under-expanded but it leads to a very large spectacular flame instead of the long thin one usually produced.
rmoss15 2 years ago
Is it possible for a mix using caramelized sugar + KNO3 + al powder to spontaneously ignite and/or explode? I doubt it will, but I want to ask more experienced ppl.
Atteratotus 2 years ago
I have a grain of fuel from 6months ago in my garage with 60-30-10 KNO3, Sucrose and Al and it still hasn't gone off spontaneously so I think it is pretty safe.
rmoss15 2 years ago
I actually asked the question incorrectly, I was more concerned if it would explode in the tube when burning. ( with added aluminium).
Atteratotus 2 years ago
I haven't experienced that yet, the closest thing would be a blown nozzle.
rmoss15 2 years ago
IF you were to seal it up tight, i'm positive you could get a nice explosion out of it. That's what CATOs are.
DanielM0213 2 years ago