6.5 Grendel Product Overview from Hornady®

[snakesinmypants]

For long range sniping 300 is the way to go. For CQB, the 300 Blackout is so much better.

[TheAlexagius]

@snakesinmypants for snipeing .338 lapu is proably the best so far i mean it holds the world record

[snakesinmypants]

@TheAlexagius I can agree with that. The .338 is an excellent cartridge. Did you ever see the Sugland Express? The snipers there used a 7mm.

[TheAlexagius]

@snakesinmypants no i havn't

[electricsoup100]

Currently NATO forces have a two calibre system. 5.56 and 7.62 by switching to this round logistics would be simpler and more efficient as I understand this round out performs both. As for the AR rifle add a gas piston and the 6.5 round and there you have a solution to all the m4's problems. That being said its unlikely top brass would make such moves during time of war and with the current economic climate and lobbyists. Shame though.

[Wanhope2]

@electricsoup100

The 6.5 grendel has better flight characteristics than the 7.62x51 yes, but terminal ballistics are less than half. You would still want a heavier round available. The 6.5 would still be much better than the 5.56x45 obviously, but so is the 6.8SPC, the grendel can just reach out and touch a bit further.

[survivalaustralia01]

think you would need a whole new chambered barrel, and lessons learned from the second world war that too many firearms on the battle field in different calibers is a bad idea, if the shtf and you run out of ammo just because you want to be unique leaves you exposed to take over .

[7commenter7]

Does it take the AR mag? Or you only have to change the upper, or is it a whole diff weapon?

[ak47citizensoldier]

I'm hoping that by 2016 The 6.5 ak's (like Krebs made) will be the standard and by then their price will have come down

[TaZ101SAGA]

A Barrett REC7 chambered in 6.5 is whats needed! :D

[7commenter7]

lol the guy sounds like Barney. Anyway, does this round tumble? Hows it do with fleshy type targets? And does it penetrate?

[SupremeTitan87]

add html at the beginning and at the and of the link

[jonnotantan]

After ww2 we brits tried to get a very similar round into common use - the .280 british (go look it up, and the experimental em-2 rifle). However, the Americans vetoed the idea because they were still going for the individual rifleman concept and went with 7.62.... and then changed their minds and went with 5.56 later - pissed us off as we'd just changed all our buying plans to go for the FN FAL...

[GhostRider659]

Since when is it a good idea to Call one's product "deadly"?

[akiratubo]

@GhostRider659

When you are a bullet manufacturer.

[RayG707]

Could somebody tell me how much power the 6.5 grendel has?

[SupremeTitan87]

@RayG707

2250-2600J, depending on the weight of the round, if you mean "muzzle energy". 2250J for 5.8g round, and 2600J for 8g, ok?

[mojothemigo]

How many rounds fit in a standard AR 5.56mm 30 round mag and how heavy is it compared to the 5.56mm? I'm not saying they are making the right choice, but I think thats why the military likes the 5.56.

[7commenter7]

From what I see and hear the 6.5 is the best round ever. That would be so awesome if the military starts using it.

[jazzyman1]

can I put this 6.5 Grendel into HK mr556?

[maxdura007]

6.5 grendel is a sweet cartridge.

[GringotheHunter]

Unfortunately Hornady can't seem to keep these cartridges on shelves. They'd be making bankrolls if they could though.

[MrSurgicalPrecision]

This stuff is amazing. I just went out and shot this stuff at 800 yards. It performed nearly as well my match handloads.

[Dilo22]

Sad thing is, this or the 6.8 Grendel are probably never going to replace the 5.56. Not as long as the US is a part of NATO

[Deadman1709]

@Dilo22 too right mate, people nearly got it TWICE with a general purpose cartridge long before the 6.5 or the 6.8: the .276 Pedersen and the 7x43 mm (look very similar to the Grendel).

The first one didn't make it, the US insisted on the 30-06 for WWII.

The 7x43 was made by the British along with the EM-2 rifle. Then guess who screw it up? US again, insisting on NATO adopting the tiny 5.56. They got it of course.

And now we still look for a new cartridge.

[Dilo22]

@Deadman1709 The 5.56 isn't terrible, but I think we can do much better... And I think I said 6.8 Grendel instead of 6.8 SPC :P my bad

[Deadman1709]

@Dilo22 sure, the 5.56 has its merit, it's light, and controllable recoil and good performance under 300m.

However, battles reports however shows limited performance at ranges exceeding 300m. In fact, Taliban in Afghanistan learn to engage US and UK patrol at ranges >600m with their big 7.62x54R. The US respond by re-distributing 7.62x51 NATO weapons at squad level.

6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC can replace both the 7.62 NATO and the 5.56 in their respective role.

[Dilo22]

@Deadman1709 7.62x54... That's a soviet round of some kind? I don't remember off the top of my head.

But yeah like totally could see that happening. 5.56 was chosen in Vietnam, when half the time you crossed barrels with your enemy. But out there in the desert... limitless view. And couple that with urban warfare, high buildings to shoot down from, etc...

Seriously though, I don't think they're going to change :C

[Deadman1709]

@Dilo22 7.62x54R is a Soviet round. One of the oldest and rimmed cartridge still in service today. The famous Mosin Nagant rifle use it. Currently, the PKM machine gun and the Dragunov SVD sniper rifle still chamber it.

Yeah, there's a good case for change but during peace time, it's hard to change. During peace time, they howl for a lot of test before production.

During war, it's straight from factory to field. If I'm not wrong the P-51 Mustang got like ... 3 months of test flight?

[Dilo22]

@Deadman1709 The SVD! I thought it sounded familiar. And yeah, the P51 had like, a year or two of service after testing to boot lol. Then jet propulsion was like "gtfo"

[devildawgpetri]

Look at the 12 second mark. I've been to a range before and know how things are set up. This guy is flagging (pointing his rifle at other shooters) which is a big NO NO! Thanks for keeping your vidoes up to gun safety standards HORNADY!

[MrSurgicalPrecision]

@devildawgpetri I'm pretty sure Hornady has it's own private range, not likely a major manufacturer is using a public range.

[tapper45]

@devildawgpetri

sweeping.

you must be a cop or a civ.

[Soddykins]

It's seriously too bad the military didn't adopt this cartridge, but all the same I would really like to see every serious AR owner in the country in possession of an Alexander Arms frame. The .50Beowulf and 6.5Grendel uppers are a must-own and each is too utilitarian in its own right to be denied.

[Popsicle22754]

OK I see you guys crying about the 5.56x45mm (223) and the military not switching First the 5.56x45mm cartridge is still a great cartridge but the military cannot just switch over to a new round while actively engaging 2 wars thats just a logistics impossibility even if we were not waging war it would still be a nightmare.

[stupidburp]

@Popsicle22754 Swiching calibers could be done quickly and easily. The logistics would be challenging but hardly a nightmare. The simplest and fastest method would probably be to distribute replacement uppers to units in an organized fashion and push sufficient ammo along with it. The unit armorers keep their old uppers just in case there is a local delay in ammo supply down the road. The weapons would have identical function so training is easy. Include a part list with stock numbers. Done

[Popsicle22754]

@stupidburp Thats still a LOT to handle for any army and in todays world and economy its still much eaiser said then done.

[stupidburp]

@Popsicle22754 Well I have done it not just said it. This whole project would cost less than I used to spend in a week on similar projects. I won't go into detail here but lets just say I am a subject matter expert on this particular topic. There are people who do much more difficult, complex and expensive projects on a daily basis than this. Through their expertise and integrity they save money by preventing waste of more money than most people will ever see in a lifetime. They can do this.

[Popsicle22754]

@stupidburp Ok then lets start seeing some changes then...Right now chop chop...While your at it i need some thermalbaric RPG7 rounds(100), 50,000rds of 5.56x45mm (XM193, 55gr), 20, HK G36C and G36Ks, 100,000rds of JHP 9mm parabellums and 10, MP5SDs oh ya throw in 25 Beretta 92FSs an some NVG Gen 3s ya snap snap I need them and a cargo container and some shipping papers to burma. You think you can do that for me ya we have a timeline that needs to be met so you got 2months. good luck.

[stupidburp]

@Popsicle22754 I could get an order like that ready to go in a matter of minutes with delivery in days not months. I would never fill that order for you though. You are not an authorized customer.

[Popsicle22754]

@stupidburp Ok then i guess ill give you a call when i overthrough a small third world country and make a puppet government so i can order just from you...Then i will order from you or Kieslers Defense oh I hear ALS tech has a logistics divisions so see you soon. Ya its eaiser to take a small country over then it is to actually deal with the political horseshit of becoming an "authorized customer".

[stupidburp]

@Popsicle22754 If you really just want to try using military equipment you could rent them from various dealers in many states in the U.S. for use at their private range. If you want to use them all the time then you could join the military. If you just want to enjoy shooting some targets with your own weapon there are many legal options available and the paperwork is not hard at all.

[Popsicle22754]

@stupidburp buddy i know the whole NFA, Class 3, tax stamp routine and its still a pile of horse shit. The military pays to little and the companies with private ranges and weapons ask for too much...Again its eaiser for me to go overseas to any wartorn, backwards, nation who either supported the USSR or the US during the coldwar and you can just get about anything for any price and no legal paperwork needed and you can make a buck.

[pinselplins]

7,92 × 33 mm Sturmgewehr 44 = 6.5 Grendel (Nothing new!)

[10mmTroy]

@pinselplins

Really?

Because they have completely different muzzle velocities, energy levels and diameters - and thus completely different external ballistics.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[pinselplins]

@10mmTroy That's right! But the idea of a „Short Cartridges“ is not really new, look at

(Kurzpatrone 7,92 x 33)

But the 6.5 Grendel is better this is not a question!

[10mmTroy]

@pinselplins

All the intermediate cartridges (5.56, 7.62x39, 6.8SPC, etc) are "short". So while this is true, I'm just not really sure why this was especially pertinent in this case, especially considering the OAL of 5.56 and 6.5 are exactly the same.

[pinselplins]

@10mmTroy Forget it!

[pinselplins]

@10mmTroy I know something, but my biggest problem is the language (English)!

PS Be nice

[DD826]

Does anyone know, if this Hornady 6.5 Grendel, A-Max, 123 grain is comparible to the Alexander Arms 6.5 123gr.

[LemmeLieHere]

This is a very good round. Better at long range than the 6.8mm Remington SPC, although that's a good round too. Either one would be far better than the 5.56mm NATO round.

Too many field reports from Iraq and Afghanistan about the 5.56mm round not having enough stopping power. I hope the military listens. No point in having lighter ammo if it takes 2-3 rounds to drop the enemy.

[boiracerxx]

Nice to have more suppliers!

[esh325]

It's very frustrating that the military completly ignored this cartridge and cartridges like it before it. The problem is all these intermediate cartridges like the 5.56x45,7.62x39, and 5.45x39 can't match the ballistics of a full sized rifle cartridge so they can't be used in a sniper or machine gun role. The 6.5 grendel would be capable of replacing both the 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 which would simplify the logitstics.

[MNel86]

@esh325

It's much more likely that we'll see the Military go back to the M16 & a 20" barrel now that we're not kicking doors in Iraq anymore, we'll never stray from the 5.56 though.

[crufflerrick]

@esh325

Exactly...buti ts corupt/politics and money!

Alexander cant match Remington and others deep pockets unfortunately.

Even if he made a better round and everyone knows it.!

[usmcdisabledvet]

@esh325 It's more than frustrating. Engineers have known since ww1 that the ideal infantryman's bullet is between 6mm and 7mm. The 6mm PPC has been the benchmark for a long time. Why NATO went with 5.56 has never made any sense other than to display corruptive business practices of the MIC. 6.5 has the best BC of any bullet. Considering you can give that to every regular army soldier, not just designated marksman in comparison to ranges like 400m on many NATO rifles is dumbfounding.

[1776PatriotTeen]

@esh325 Imagine the how low the cost would be if the government started issuing it to our troops. It would create competition and there fore the price would just like .223. Oh and by the way, don't listen to what Hornday says about how it is only used for small game. It's bullshit. I saw a guy on YouTube use it to bring down a Buffalo.

[SupremeTitan87]

@esh325

Then you don't really understand logistics... Do you know that the ammo stocks are full with 5.56 and 7.62?

Rearming with new weapon parts the whole army, and the cost of all that? I'm not going to mention the problems in global crisis...

7.62x51 is and always will be preffered for GPMGs and sniper rifles, it's still better then 6.5 Grendel

Nevertheless, I think that the 6.5 is the best cartridge for it's purpose today!!!

But.....:D

[esh325]

@SupremeTitan87 I think I have a good understanding of logistics. The 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 likely will never be replaced. From what I read, the 6.5 grendel retains velocity and energy better at a distance then the 7.62x51.

[SupremeTitan87]

@esh325

"From what I read, the 6.5 grendel retains velocity and energy better at a distance then the 7.62x51"

true, sorry I didn't specify the way 7,62 is "still better". I meant great government-dealer contracts; can you imagine what would happen if someone simply decided that 7,62 is no longer officially used round? then someone would be really pissed off! That's my point of view.

Also, a little bit off topic - every attempt to create one unique, universal round always led to failure...

[esh325]

@SupremeTitan87 Yes, it's defenetly superior to the 6.5 grendel in that way. It has failed, largely because of poor circumstances. The British had the 7x43mm which was an amazing cartridge for the time, but didn't catch on because the US shoved the .308 round down everybodys throat. The Chinese have a 1 cartridge system now. I'm not sure if it's working good or bad for them.

[SupremeTitan87]

@esh325

here's interesting web site about firearms. This is the link regarding ammunition. ://world.guns.ru/ammunition/in­termediate-cartridges-e.

Find 5.8x42 DAP and take a look. I think it's probably very similar to 5.56. But, you know, like everything that Chinese developed, there's always misty data, except for direct copies of the world's best weapons. No one really knows...But I doubt it'll be widely used around the world.

[TheAlexagius]

@esh325 yeah the british also had the .280 in the 50s as a prototype round for its later dropped assult rifle(which would have been the most advanced in the world), they droped it saying it had little battlefeild use, yet today the 6.8spc is basicly a copy of that round and it with the 6.5 grendal is heralded as a master piece

[hardman476]

@SupremeTitan87 the 6.5mm was never intended to replace the 7.62mm as a sniping role or maching gun role but to repalce the 5,56mm because of ite problems in long range, tumbling when shot through glass, stopping power etc !!

[Humberto4790]

@esh325 Can this cartrige do good in a .223 AR-15 or do you have to get a different AR-15 made for 6.5 grendel?

[esh325]

@Humberto4790 You need a 6.5 grendel AR15 upper to shoot 6.5 grendel out of it. You cannot shoot 6.5 grendel in .223 chambered AR15 upper.

[Humberto4790]

@esh325 Thanks for the info.One more question does 6.5 grendel have low recoil like the .223?

[esh325]

@Humberto4790 I've never fired a 6.5 grendel, but I've heard the recoil is quite low. It will have more recoil then a .223 because it fires a heavier grain bullet, but the recoil will be still quite manageable.

[TheAlexagius]

@Humberto4790 its lowish more than the .223 but less than the .308

[techdeckdude4]

@esh325

Ya tell that to NATO, They will never end up replacing 5.56 just the rifle around it

[McCarthy331]

@esh325 6.5mm rounds have a history of being ignored..... but the military probibly doesnt want to try to change rounds in the middle of combat operations like the italians did durring ww2, which caused alot of problems for them. but other than that they absolutly should change to 6.5 grendal.

[esh325]

@McCarthy331 Being ignored for irrational reasons mostly. They have great ballistics.

[McCarthy331]

@esh325 agreed

[Wanhope2]

@esh325

There is no way it could replace the 7.62x51, the 6.5 grendel has barely more than half the energy on impact. Sometimes you DO need a bigger cartridge. The 6.5 creedmoor is a BIT closer to an all round replacement of both, but then you are carrying far less ammo for the same weight, the problem we had with full sized rifle cartridges in the first place!

[esh325]

@Wanhope2 Energy is nothing but a rough estimate of a cartridges lethality. Energy doesn't take into account bullet construction, and numerous other factors.

[islandsjim]

6.5 is the holy grail of long range accuracy & increased power of the 308

with full auto controllability of the 223

it used a surprisingly small amount of powder to achieve its preformance hence the light recoil

my only continuing question is- does this cartridge shape function reliably at full auto in adverse conditions?

time will tell, but if so, it makes the 6.5 king of ar rounds, beter yet, reliable short stroke gas platforms that are now favored

[MushroomPictures]

@islandsjim My fav AR cartridge is the .450 bushmaster or 458 socom

either of those

[ImEternalWanderer]

@islandsjim visibly and externally, the 6.5 look very similar to the old .280 British (destined to be the standard NATO round but over taken by the American 7.62x51).

The Brits got a bullpup assault rifle EM-2 chambered for the .280. So, well, historically, a long, heavy bullet with the short, stubby case like the 6.5 can be chambered reliably.

Some more testing would be good. But the real problem is for the massive bureaucratic machine to actually do something.

[NorthernShooter]

Is that allowed in National Matches and Military shoots?

[MrMindfucker]

.300 wsm would be nice!

I'm building my first AR 15 Chambered for .327 magnum's!

[danebrewer10]

I love the Idea of this cartridge, it's a shame it isn't really in mainstream loadings for the UK, and if it were it would be damned expensive, it can be made deer legal as well (1700 ft/lbs), though performance would suffer in down loaded versions to work in mann-opp AR rifles...

[danebrewer10]

or I just thought of the ARMALON cam system that increases your pulling power to aid in extraction so you could load it up to the same level as you would in a bolt action...

[MrSurgicalPrecision]

I would love to see the 95 grain V Max loaded. I'm using them now (handloaded) and I can't believe the performance they offer for such a light bullet.

[Spikeanator6982]

I am very glad Hornady picked up the Grendel, I hope more then just the a-max loading soon though.

[stupidburp]

Good to see More options in 6.5. Look forward to seeing other loads soon. Heard some have even taken down elk without any problem with a 6.5 Grendel.

[barccy]

There is a video of buffalo being taken with 6.5x39 here on youtube.

[SilverC6Coupe]

Looks great and I'm looking forward to it showing up in stores.  Will you be making other loads after this?