Sense when was Crystal Lewis a "Christian artist"? I've known of her sense I was like 10 and I've only known her as a secular artist. And I am almost 30 now...
My father-in-law wrote a book on this very topic about 30 years ago. He was a choir director at a Bible college at the time. The reaction to his stand from the administration and faculty of that college were so vicious he was hounded from his position and went into a different line of work at age 57. To this day he remains a broken man, I think, and the damage to his family--well you just wouldn't believe what has happened in the past 30 years. I think he hit way too close to home and paid.
@Thankful4salvation tht video reminded me of a succubus. the only true christian band that makes music directly about jesus, god, etc, is theocracy, there a metal band btw.
Everytime something new comes into the world there will be a preacher who says satan made it. Read 1 timothy and stop trying to put yokes on people. It basically says don't promote yourself to myths, because you accomplish nothing but creating controversies. If you dig as deep as you have into this crap into anything you can paint an ugly picture about anything. Christian music promotes God, and His worship no matter what notes are played.
@Insanonymous Have you forgotten Christianities ugly past. How many Jews were killed in the name of God? Do we practice such things? No we don't, why? This is because we evolved in the direction of peace just as they(falsely) went into the direction of violence. If a drum pattern that people are accustom to was once used to worship anything else why should we care? This same question was raised when the apostles were asked about food sacrificed to idols. The idol is nothing. This applies.
God put the moon in orbit to regulate the tides and give light at night. Is God satanic because he uses the moon? Why would an artist be satanic because there's a moon in the video? Crystal Lewis is in a bedroom,alone. My bedroom is the place where I most often talk to Yahweh. A bedroom is a place where many people get on their knees to talk to the Almighty. The church today has indeed been corrupted; by sex scandals, gay clergy, financial issues.Christian Rock is not among the ills of the Body.
That's a good material overall but you, pastor Mike, exaggerated some things couple of times. I have to agree with folks that say that singing in front of the moon in not satanic. Otherwise we as Christians wouldn't even look at the moon but as we know - God has created it. So anyway - well done. The essential thing was to put emphasis on the fake Christians and fake Christianity. I'm sick and tired of those ppl looking only for some cheap money and easy living while mixing Jesus and the devil.
I'm probably one of 3 people to actually watch this series all the way through. Like I said on other vids, I appreciate your desire for holiness but this series has been nothing more than misinformation, things taken out of context, and poor scholarship in general. I encourage you, please me more thorough in your research and rational in your arguments. Peace and God bless.
It's time for a shift in christian music. We have accepted Christian rock as the normal christian lifestyle and a Godly form of worship, when in reality, after 40yrs it still remains a psuedo christian form of worldly music. It continues to be as it always has; a form of music performed by christians who couldn’t let go of rock music. It has always had a lukewarm effect on christians and a zero effect on the world
Oh, I get it. Putting her in the bedroom makes the song have sexual implications. So later in the video when she's in a living room, she's asking us to trust her as an interior decorator? In the dining room, do we trust her as a chef? How about when she's by the decorative pool, are we supposed to trust her as a life guard-- or a landscaper? Or perhaps the director simply decided to film a typical day's progression (bedroom, living/eating space, outside) in stylish house.
@bromattchat I'm angry, not convicted! I know the difference. Although he has SOME valid arguments, he is giving the devil credit for things of GOD! Singing in front of the moon= satanic? Have YOU ever sang outside at night? I'm pretty sure the Israelites did, especially in the widerness.
I agree that if they aren't coming right out and saying the name of God or Jesus, then they need to evaluate what they are singing. Crystal Lewis has lived a Christian life. Her music is inspired by God.
Some of the old hymns were not allowed in church in the 1800's because the tunes were taken from bar songs, and the words were changed to make them Christian. And a piano was not allowed in a church ( only organs ) because pianos were played in bars. Now all churches have pianos. See how foolish people can be !!
Thank you very much pastor Mike for this eye opening study. We must understand that these godless satanists are fighting all gods religions. They will not hesitate to use all means of destruction to the real values of the holly books. They are deviously luring us against god using our own religions. Music and image is one of the easiest means of brain wash as it is becoming hard to close our eyes when there symbols are everywhere and music is everywhere we go.
As a Muslim who respects the holly religions of god i believe they brain washed a generation of Muslims into a purposely miss enter-prated meaning of JIHAD, Christians into a misunderstood meaning of the acceptance of God and Jesus of there sins and redemption as a green light to 'do as thous wilt' and Jews into discrimination as they are the chosen ones by god. I speak not of all Muslims or Christians or Jews but the war is still going on against evil. god bless
Thank you very much pastor Mike for this eye opening study. We must understand that these godless satanists are fighting all gods religions. They will not hesitate to use all means of destruction to the real values of the holly books. They are deviously luring us against god using our own religions. Music and image is one of the easiest means of brain wash as it is becoming hard to close our eyes when there symbols are everywhere and music is everywhere we go.
Well... There was a man who was FIRED for trying to introduce more contemporary music into the church. that man was Johann Sebastian Bach, one of the most influential of church music composers. It seems that even in the 21st century, we have viewpoints that only hinder the next move of God. I totally agree with the point on crossover artists. BUT The move of God we are about to enter will be like the others in that new music will rise forth. Let's start living in the now...
@TheSteeletube Looking at your channel I notice you are a much higher spiritual plane than the rest of us so, of course, we'll take your word for it. By the way, where did you get your info on Bach?
@beaminmyeye Uhhhhh, yeah Yee Haw, that is my actual account name. And, I'm more interested in accumulating friends in real life. Did my comments offended you in some way that it hindered you to think about what you post on here (ie. coming at me with lame questions instead of the Word of God.) Or, are you more interested in the KJV only club and making smart mouthed comments instead of defending the Faith?
@homeless018 Oh, I'm sorry... did I miss the word of God somewhere in your comment? How about your defense of the faith... did I miss that here, somewhere, as well? Sorry, there I go asking lame questions again.
@beaminmyeye So, finally getting back to your response. Obviously, you were hurt by my comments about this guy's video. That's ok and I'm sorry for such writings. I do, however, look up to people like you who is a greater defender of the faith than I, and wished you would consider putting Biblical truths behind your argument. I am personally interested in your thoughts - Biblically that is.
As for the KJVO thing, it was kinda obvious that you believe in it. You're pretty militant.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
After watching this whole presentation...there may be a few valid points this pastor brings up but I think overall this leans heavily towards the "legalistic" side of things. At the end of the day when you worship Jesus Christ through music it all comes back to what's in your heart! I can and have had many amazing musical worship moments through what would be called "secular" music...how? Because I'm Christian lol, so what I'm thinking, feeling, and doing is not the same as a lost person :)
Thanks for this series. I have felt this is what was really going on. This is just more proof of what I sensed for years. All I knew was what scripture teaches, Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
She was sitting on a bed, fully clothed. So what! Nothing wrong with that! What is Pastor Michael Moore insinuating? Any lustful images he saw in this video exists in his own filthy mind. He must have imagined himself having sex with her while watching this video. I saw NOTHING filthy about this video. And looking at this guy, he should maybe look into the sin of gluttony. Again, THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BIBLE THAT SYAS MUSIC OF ANY KIND IS EVIL! If it isn't in the Bible, you can't preach on it.
@Mato1970 HAHA! You gullibe GOAT! He said the messages were SUBTLE! DIDN'T YOU HEAR HIM?! She was on a bed! WHY? There's no rational explanation other than to allude to sex! And as you can see she walks away with her hands on her female parts...I'm sure there's also a few subliminal messages in the background too, but I didn't look closely enough...Satan may appear as an angel of light...That's not the exact quote, but you understand the gist...It's SEDUCTIVE!
@thelamb777 You can find a "subtle message" in anything if you look hard enough. She was sitting on a bed. So what! It wasn't alluding to sex. After all, one can also have sex on a sofa, in the shower, or a kitchen table. And seeing a woman wearing a turtle neck sweater does not set the blood rushing like fire through my veins. She was not dressed in any seductive way, nor did she allude to sex in any way. The suggestion of sex only existed in Pastor Michael Moore's obviously filthy mind.
@thelamb777 And it may surprise you to know that there are other things people do on a bed besides have sex, such as SLEEP, read a book (like the Bible), watch TV, or just generally relax. It's seductive? I didn't feel seduced when watching this. If they meant this to be seductive, why didn't they have her dress like Britney Spears or Lady Gaga? And why no man in the room with her? Wouldn't a man be needed for the suggestion of sex to be present?
@thelamb777 And I saw where her hands were in the scene where she walks away--by her pants pockets. So what! Nothing sexual about that! If you think her "female parts" are by her pants pockets, I suggest you take a remedial course in human anatomy. As the saying goes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
So conclusively, Harmony is good, rhythm is evil?!
If anybody could recommend fundamentally creditable sources, it could be great.
I am African, and there's a lot of mysticism and supernatural stories and practices, and some of those rituals use regular things that may not strike as demonic, such as soap, yes, I said soap. So, does that mean that soap is inherently evil? That's what conflicts in terms of the sound or rhythm of drums in any form of music, even Asians have drums in their music.
@Anfmethodjor This is was worth it to watch because I honestly now have a stronger belief on the esoteric meaning of symbols. I have been told before about it, but I was quite skeptical. Because I believe that the meaning that you believe is powerful enough to dismay contradictory connotations, but I'm not that convinced anymore because in Rome, do as Romans, and unfortunately, this is not only a secular existence, so if you're sending a message, be well informed about who may be receiving it.
I have, on my playlists, some music from 1955-1970, all the way from the Maguire sisters, to CCr Suzy Q. I am going to do hi ssugestion of 2 weeks etc. I am now convinced I will likely not keep very many of them, if any at all.
I am reminded of Paul Anka's sone, "Diana" ... Interesting... I believe everything these folks are saying, and i am not some impressionable kid, but a 65 y.o. Christian
@HelloKittyNYC7 The devil has blinded them, so that they are no longer able to discern good from evil. The Holy Spirit is so grieved by this noise. But iof today's so called Christians are not Spirit -FILLED, they are going to lose, in fact, they might not be Christians at all.
@asmodeous9 it may not be that suggestive but she definitely was NOT glorifying Jesus in any way and that was what he was trying to say. if someone who didn't know christ and did not know she was a christian heard this song, jesus would not be the first to come in mind when listening to this song.
please really think about this videos and pray for wisdom ... I think that many things of what this guy says, are true. There is many ccm that definitely is not christian! Think about it.
But there is also ccm which can not be evil: what about e.g. Jeremy Camp? His (rock)music brought me into a closer relationship with Jesus! I think this can't be evil! sry 4 my bad english, i m german ;-)
@ACallToHoliness Amen to that! lol But I do think the whole thing he says about using drums is a bit extreme: I mean, look at all the good Christian bands that use drums? Mercy Me, Seventh Day Slumber, Hillsong United--even Chris Tomlin, in some songs! What the hell does this guy listen to?! That should be the REAL question, because there is much reference in the Bible that music should bring you joy, and be sung with joy! Look at the use of tambourines after the parting of the Red Sea!
@HelloKittyNYC7 Chris Tomlin I don't mind...Beats are ohkay as long as they're not emphasized and as long as people aren't OBSESSED upon them...Hillsong is filled with a bunch of greedy, fornicating ACTORS...All they care about is your money, and the pastor John Austin or something [forgot his name] reaps all the benefits and robs you of your free will and BANK ACCOUNT! PERIOD!
That woman was wearing a turtleneck lol. I would not call that suggestive but for this guy who is so deprived it is not much of a stretch for his imagination.
Thank you brother, for that wonderful video series. I have been studying about occult symbolism in music for awhile, but never would I have dreamed that it would be in Christian music. You are doing something great and despite the people that will criticize you, PEOPLE ARE LISTENING. And I just want to encourage you because JESUS IS COMING, brother. We all have to do our part in these last days.
There are all kinds of music that is deceptive and the devil is a having a hay day in the church's with it. I grew up in church and it's sad to report that the church I used to goto is corrupted by the subject at hand. They have a hard rock band that is sadly decieved, one of the members is an old high school friend and tells me its all for God but the music they play is straight from hell. The guitar player is running it like a communist regime no imput from others, what he says goes.
GOD created music for his glory to be used to worship him, its just that Lucifer twisted and preverted it to his liking. Music is a strong tool used by satan and In the wrong hands it can decieve millions to satan/hell. In the mid 80's I could of had fame and fortune but I passed because thats blood on your hands if you become an Idol in the musical world and used by the devil. In a way your bringing ppl to the devil and thats the last thing I would want on my hands and conscience.
Even though I don't rate Crystal Lewis's video, I feel the presenter is a tad harsh.Beautiful woman, christian or not are sensual beings, & Crystal is beautiful - God made them that way. Maybe it wasn't the wisest move to shoot it in the bedroom but this video can symbolize biblical positive things (I'll let you decide that). God Bless.
There needs to be some understanding here, that a extremely frustrated, emotionally driven teenager, is more likely going to be better ministered too by a song with "chuggy" guitars but is about Jesus being more than able to handle her situation, than a hymn with the same words.
As someone who God has made to create things. It is my job, in a way like a pastor, to create visual and musical "things" that will be understood by my audience. The world today really actually does use a visual and auditory language that is ever changing. (I'm not arguing about Hoggard's specifics...those seem to be more oversights in production)
I hope that people reading this who aren't sure whether Christianity is something they want to pursue aren't turned off by these arguments.
I'm a musician, and a graphic designer, and a person who is a servant of God, who desires to see God glorified. Mike Hoggard, has picked out some examples here that seem pretty obvious.... and then made some fairly huge generalizations, and used some pretty inflaming language...
I thought this video series was helpful... but mostly damaging.
Most of these artists probably are great people and struggle with music as a stronghold(like myself) My opinion and it's just opinion, is that unfortunetly if you want to have the mind of Christ
You HAVE to come out from the world, or you'll remain worldy. It has nothing to do with how they're trying to reach a broader audience. If they do get big...does their faith get more radical..or more worldly. Also..I'm preching to myself...so don't bash me. Music has been a powerful idol to me. Pray.
Even though this man seems like a nice man, who cares about people. This series was dissapointing. I can't see any evidence to support any of his claims.
Sixpence(who I know but don't listen to) probably had nothing to do with how the video was made....as do most of these artists. Most people miss the point.
The reason that most of this music is worldly..is because the artists are. It's not about Christ it's about Money. Selling a clean image and making a career to live off of.
rfrye, I have responded publicly to your public comment, and will respond privately to your private comment, and I wont close the discussion by having the last word and fulminating that "I wont talk to you anymore". We can discuss it publicly, or privately, as adults for as little or as long as you want to.
I'm disapointed at your angry approach, but I'm not angry with you and I suspect there's much more behind it than the issues Hoggard (who I kknow nothing of personally) has raised.
If you're disappointed that I'm angry....get used to it. When I see my generation rejecting Christ solely based on the actions and words of people like you and this pastor I think I have the right to be angry. There's nothing more to my anger than that.
Churches are losing people because of self righteous motive mongering legalists like you. You make my job harder and you make me want to tell the world how wrong your brand of Christianity is. Thanks for the motivation. You're a Pharisee. You need to be freed from your self serving legalistic ways.
Say all you like, get thee behind me Satan! Accuser of the Brethren, yes the truth hurts and offends. Bless you Pastor Mike these dark things need the light to expose them.
You think I'm Satan? You really are deranged. My friend, satan is much more crafty and evil than I'll ever be...by the Grace of God. I'll also never be self righteous like you and the pastor in this vid. I'm only righteous because of Jesus Christ.
rfrye, You're just not listening to what is being said in these videos. You respond emotionally because you like your rock music, not because you can defend it scripturally.
Please, stop throwing the "self righteous" accusation about. The way you're doing it its totally meaningless. With comments like, "you make my job harder" you are the only one magnifying self. Its a totally irrelevant remark to be directing at the author, or people like laurian who are simply opposing your views.
OJFT, I like ALL music. I am careful about the lyrics I listen to...but not something as silly as staying away from certain styles of music like this pastor proposes. The Bible supports my position more than it does this pastor's. Ever heard of drums and LOUD music being referenced in the Old Testament?
You and this pastor find comfort in your legalism just like the Pharisees did. When will you realize that it is ONLY Jesus' sacrifice that makes you righteous and not your pious ways? I pitty you.
'Legalism' is another copout to justify... well just about anything rfrye.
It wasnt legalism that inspired Paul to exhort the Thessalonians, "Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly"
Hoggard is not talking about righteusness unto salvation. He isn't talking about "piety". As Paul frequently did, he is talking about practices that are (A) spiritually dangerous and (B) dishonouring to God.
Jesus' sacrifice isn't a license to emulate the world.
rfrye, Hoggard hasn't discussed VOLUME, neither have I picked up on him saying DRUMS are evil.
Nevertheless, volume can certainly be used to help create altered states of consciousness. Put that together with the hypnotic BEATS that Hoggard has discussed, and you have the reason it figures so heavily in voodoo.
Not all beats and rythms or loud music does it. Listen to the 1812 Overture - turn it up loud. Plenty of drums, but it wont foster sexual thoughts or induce an altered state.
"Not all beats and rythms or loud music does it. Listen to the 1812 Overture - turn it up loud. Plenty of drums, but it wont foster sexual thoughts or induce an altered state."
This statement right here is why I won't talk to you any longer about this. It's pure nonsense like this pastor. You want scripture? Where's the scripture that supports abstaining from certain beats? Please read the private message I sent you.
rfrye, you asserted "It's pure nonsense .." but an assertion without reasoning is pretty meaningless, except insofar as it vents an unsupported opinion. Likewise, name-calling only indicates immaturity and lack of a solid argument.
I have given you reasoning in my messages that you haven't addressed, except to display anger at me for daring to say things you don't like.
You assert that the Bible supports your position more than it does Hoggards, but you baulk at a scriptural discussion.
I'm going to back this argument up for a sec. This pastor seems to have two issues with rock music culture: 1. The style of Music because it has "evil beats" that could "control" you to think bad things etc. and 2. The way they look...i.e. tattoos and piercings becasue that is "being like the world"....
When I said the Bible supports my position more than this pastor's it's because the Bible doesn't say anything about the kinds of music one should listen to, it only says to be loud, joyful and to use all sorts of instruments including drums. You and this pastor are basing your arguments on the sinful mistakes of other rock musicians and your own personal preferences and the traditions of legalistic churches....
Which is WRONG. You can't tell people something is ungodly and evil simply because some one else uses a benign thing like music to sin and simply because you don't like the style of music. That is wrong, you can't do that. As to the second point (not looking like the world) when did tattoos and piercings equal looking like and associating with the world? When the Bible says we aren't to conform to this world is speaking about our hearts and how we behave in this world, not in the way we look.
If it was about the way we look, then we should shave our heads and wear something like a tunic which no one who is worldly would wear these days. There are plenty of clean cut people in suits and formal business clothing that are far more evil, worldly, and sinful than the tattooed pierced kid that likes to play his electric guitar in his garage band.
For example...I think our president is very worldly and wicked. So maybe we should stop wearing business casual clothing and suits? You see, that logic is not right. It's about our HEARTS being right and godly ....not our dress or fashion.
Sorry, not well said, how do you know how evil some one is rfrye27? No-one can tell, but what is on the outside is an example of who and what they worship.
how can you say that? it actually does matter what kind of music you listen to, metal for example is satanic and it does have a negative influence on people. i dont consider even the christian metal music christian. its crazy. and satan is strongely using music as a tool to draw people into the worlf today. we shouldnt be friends with the world or anything that comes from its origin and alot of this music does.
you should spend less time reading cultic books and listening to conspiracy theories (Isaiah 8:12) and more time preaching Christ and the Gospel. You just seem like a nut, and a legalist.
If Paul was here today he would with love let you know that you could eat the meat sacrificed to the Idols. But he would also not eat the meat sacraficed to idols because you are weak and would be offended, be weakened, and stumble.
sir,i've just watched your vid series, and must say i mostly agree w/ what you say. i'm a member of a local independent KJV baptist church in the south,but i'm a drummer and i do what i do tastefully, in church for the Lord.we don't play rock music in our church,though it's mixed w/ old time gospel music and contemporary christian,i know what i do is for the Lord and that He has taught me what I know and now i use it on Youtube to help others learn the drumsit just seemed you were against drums
i know you're trying to do the Lords work. just correct me if i'm wrong. many christians believe it's ok to sing to an old gospel track w/ drums, but if the drums are live, then it's not right. i know it's all personal conviction. alot of people have double standards. i'm just trying to use, respectfully, what the Lord has given me. God bless you in your work
circulate this video people,to friends and family.time for a REAL change!!!!!!!!!!!!united we will stand!!!don't let satan decieve the children of God anymore!!!
just goes to show u really don't know me,and definately should'nt attempt to judge me by my youtube screen name,but i suppose i'll change it so people like u stop accusing me of things i'm not doing.
No, I was very much kidding about the whole theme of these videos. VERY MUCH. And you're right I don't know you. And wasn't ACTUALLY judging you, the way this man might.
Tut tut - those dirty fantasies are not at all appropriate for you, mister Hoggard!
betlamed 1 month ago
Great video. God bless....
gilmacdave22 1 month ago
Sense when was Crystal Lewis a "Christian artist"? I've known of her sense I was like 10 and I've only known her as a secular artist. And I am almost 30 now...
nicodemous52 3 months ago
Comment removed
nicodemous52 3 months ago
See the illuminati hand gesture at the end of this video and then he had to straighten it out during 3:44 - 3:46.
This is called hypocrisy.
nickacil 3 months ago
My father-in-law wrote a book on this very topic about 30 years ago. He was a choir director at a Bible college at the time. The reaction to his stand from the administration and faculty of that college were so vicious he was hounded from his position and went into a different line of work at age 57. To this day he remains a broken man, I think, and the damage to his family--well you just wouldn't believe what has happened in the past 30 years. I think he hit way too close to home and paid.
doublenickel1000 3 months ago
@Thankful4salvation tht video reminded me of a succubus. the only true christian band that makes music directly about jesus, god, etc, is theocracy, there a metal band btw.
watch?v=B24j9fnkxo4
MusicRallys 5 months ago
At about 1:50 she makes a chalice symbol on her pelvis/
rubroxato88 6 months ago
Everytime something new comes into the world there will be a preacher who says satan made it. Read 1 timothy and stop trying to put yokes on people. It basically says don't promote yourself to myths, because you accomplish nothing but creating controversies. If you dig as deep as you have into this crap into anything you can paint an ugly picture about anything. Christian music promotes God, and His worship no matter what notes are played.
Insanonymous 6 months ago
@Insanonymous Have you forgotten Christianities ugly past. How many Jews were killed in the name of God? Do we practice such things? No we don't, why? This is because we evolved in the direction of peace just as they(falsely) went into the direction of violence. If a drum pattern that people are accustom to was once used to worship anything else why should we care? This same question was raised when the apostles were asked about food sacrificed to idols. The idol is nothing. This applies.
Insanonymous 6 months ago
God put the moon in orbit to regulate the tides and give light at night. Is God satanic because he uses the moon? Why would an artist be satanic because there's a moon in the video? Crystal Lewis is in a bedroom,alone. My bedroom is the place where I most often talk to Yahweh. A bedroom is a place where many people get on their knees to talk to the Almighty. The church today has indeed been corrupted; by sex scandals, gay clergy, financial issues.Christian Rock is not among the ills of the Body.
MrSgtYork 6 months ago
God Bless You , for alerting the Church to the deceptions and wiles of the devil .
Actually , it should be titled the occult in music that is suppose to be Christian music
keep exposing the tactics of this evil in the hopes that the conscience will be awakened .
wondercourage 8 months ago
That's a good material overall but you, pastor Mike, exaggerated some things couple of times. I have to agree with folks that say that singing in front of the moon in not satanic. Otherwise we as Christians wouldn't even look at the moon but as we know - God has created it. So anyway - well done. The essential thing was to put emphasis on the fake Christians and fake Christianity. I'm sick and tired of those ppl looking only for some cheap money and easy living while mixing Jesus and the devil.
mateoo2 9 months ago
I'm probably one of 3 people to actually watch this series all the way through. Like I said on other vids, I appreciate your desire for holiness but this series has been nothing more than misinformation, things taken out of context, and poor scholarship in general. I encourage you, please me more thorough in your research and rational in your arguments. Peace and God bless.
kinduvabigdeal 11 months ago
It's time for a shift in christian music. We have accepted Christian rock as the normal christian lifestyle and a Godly form of worship, when in reality, after 40yrs it still remains a psuedo christian form of worldly music. It continues to be as it always has; a form of music performed by christians who couldn’t let go of rock music. It has always had a lukewarm effect on christians and a zero effect on the world
bromattchat 1 year ago
Oh, I get it. Putting her in the bedroom makes the song have sexual implications. So later in the video when she's in a living room, she's asking us to trust her as an interior decorator? In the dining room, do we trust her as a chef? How about when she's by the decorative pool, are we supposed to trust her as a life guard-- or a landscaper? Or perhaps the director simply decided to film a typical day's progression (bedroom, living/eating space, outside) in stylish house.
Weak arguments!
IshMelamaid 1 year ago
Awesome series!! If you're offended, then God is dealing with your heart.
bromattchat 1 year ago
@bromattchat I'm angry, not convicted! I know the difference. Although he has SOME valid arguments, he is giving the devil credit for things of GOD! Singing in front of the moon= satanic? Have YOU ever sang outside at night? I'm pretty sure the Israelites did, especially in the widerness.
I agree that if they aren't coming right out and saying the name of God or Jesus, then they need to evaluate what they are singing. Crystal Lewis has lived a Christian life. Her music is inspired by God.
minearsm 1 year ago
A lot of what you say is heavily documented elsewhere. You should cover the use of color with symbols. Not bad. Comes off a little racist though. :)
DaReelSituation 1 year ago
@DaReelSituation He comes off real racist referred to rap as ghetto music. And used the term jungle beats.
nomyaw 1 year ago
@nomyaw yeah i tend to agree that he shouldnt use the tern "jungle beats" no need for it.
dovestream 11 months ago
IT IS NOT SENSUAL, LUSTFULL IDOLTRIS AND ITS NOT FLESHLY. i just watched the whole series and it just seemed like a bunch of bull crap.
MrBP116 1 year ago
Some of the old hymns were not allowed in church in the 1800's because the tunes were taken from bar songs, and the words were changed to make them Christian. And a piano was not allowed in a church ( only organs ) because pianos were played in bars. Now all churches have pianos. See how foolish people can be !!
royerikson 1 year ago
This is the 2nd set of your vids I've watched since I found you yesterday. I want a pastor like you in Red Bluff CA so I can go to church.
This was a great learning pastor. Thank you for the sermon. GOD bless and take care, ♥
mammal46 1 year ago
who is she asking us to trust? in a bedroom????
smooothlegs 1 year ago
thank you brother Mike for standing for the truth thank you for exposing the lies in so called christian music
azronz 1 year ago
8 minutes ago
Thank you very much pastor Mike for this eye opening study. We must understand that these godless satanists are fighting all gods religions. They will not hesitate to use all means of destruction to the real values of the holly books. They are deviously luring us against god using our own religions. Music and image is one of the easiest means of brain wash as it is becoming hard to close our eyes when there symbols are everywhere and music is everywhere we go.
blazeinbee1985 1 year ago
As a Muslim who respects the holly religions of god i believe they brain washed a generation of Muslims into a purposely miss enter-prated meaning of JIHAD, Christians into a misunderstood meaning of the acceptance of God and Jesus of there sins and redemption as a green light to 'do as thous wilt' and Jews into discrimination as they are the chosen ones by god. I speak not of all Muslims or Christians or Jews but the war is still going on against evil. god bless
blazeinbee1985 1 year ago
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Thank you very much pastor Mike for this eye opening study. We must understand that these godless satanists are fighting all gods religions. They will not hesitate to use all means of destruction to the real values of the holly books. They are deviously luring us against god using our own religions. Music and image is one of the easiest means of brain wash as it is becoming hard to close our eyes when there symbols are everywhere and music is everywhere we go.
blazeinbee1985 1 year ago
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blazeinbee1985 1 year ago
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And that's only your opinion.
abieart 1 year ago
Well... There was a man who was FIRED for trying to introduce more contemporary music into the church. that man was Johann Sebastian Bach, one of the most influential of church music composers. It seems that even in the 21st century, we have viewpoints that only hinder the next move of God. I totally agree with the point on crossover artists. BUT The move of God we are about to enter will be like the others in that new music will rise forth. Let's start living in the now...
TheSteeletube 1 year ago
@TheSteeletube Looking at your channel I notice you are a much higher spiritual plane than the rest of us so, of course, we'll take your word for it. By the way, where did you get your info on Bach?
beaminmyeye 1 year ago
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TheSteeletube 1 year ago
Well, I have to give to him. He's so erroneous that he, actually, comes off entertaining. I think he watches more music videos than I do.
homeless018 1 year ago
@homeless018 Hey homeless, what's your actual account name? Or have you really only accumulated 2 friends over the last 3 years?
beaminmyeye 1 year ago
@beaminmyeye Uhhhhh, yeah Yee Haw, that is my actual account name. And, I'm more interested in accumulating friends in real life. Did my comments offended you in some way that it hindered you to think about what you post on here (ie. coming at me with lame questions instead of the Word of God.) Or, are you more interested in the KJV only club and making smart mouthed comments instead of defending the Faith?
homeless018 1 year ago
@homeless018 Oh, I'm sorry... did I miss the word of God somewhere in your comment? How about your defense of the faith... did I miss that here, somewhere, as well? Sorry, there I go asking lame questions again.
Also, where did the KJV come up in any of this?
beaminmyeye 1 year ago
@beaminmyeye So, finally getting back to your response. Obviously, you were hurt by my comments about this guy's video. That's ok and I'm sorry for such writings. I do, however, look up to people like you who is a greater defender of the faith than I, and wished you would consider putting Biblical truths behind your argument. I am personally interested in your thoughts - Biblically that is.
As for the KJVO thing, it was kinda obvious that you believe in it. You're pretty militant.
homeless018 1 year ago
@homeless018 God's word is pretty militant:
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
(Hebrews 4:12)
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
(Ephesians 6:17)
beaminmyeye 1 year ago
After watching this whole presentation...there may be a few valid points this pastor brings up but I think overall this leans heavily towards the "legalistic" side of things. At the end of the day when you worship Jesus Christ through music it all comes back to what's in your heart! I can and have had many amazing musical worship moments through what would be called "secular" music...how? Because I'm Christian lol, so what I'm thinking, feeling, and doing is not the same as a lost person :)
brandonjames1983 1 year ago
Mike,
Thanks for this series. I have felt this is what was really going on. This is just more proof of what I sensed for years. All I knew was what scripture teaches, Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
btbbuilder 1 year ago
She was sitting on a bed, fully clothed. So what! Nothing wrong with that! What is Pastor Michael Moore insinuating? Any lustful images he saw in this video exists in his own filthy mind. He must have imagined himself having sex with her while watching this video. I saw NOTHING filthy about this video. And looking at this guy, he should maybe look into the sin of gluttony. Again, THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BIBLE THAT SYAS MUSIC OF ANY KIND IS EVIL! If it isn't in the Bible, you can't preach on it.
Mato1970 1 year ago
@Mato1970 HAHA! You gullibe GOAT! He said the messages were SUBTLE! DIDN'T YOU HEAR HIM?! She was on a bed! WHY? There's no rational explanation other than to allude to sex! And as you can see she walks away with her hands on her female parts...I'm sure there's also a few subliminal messages in the background too, but I didn't look closely enough...Satan may appear as an angel of light...That's not the exact quote, but you understand the gist...It's SEDUCTIVE!
thelamb777 1 year ago
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Mato1970 1 year ago
@thelamb777 You can find a "subtle message" in anything if you look hard enough. She was sitting on a bed. So what! It wasn't alluding to sex. After all, one can also have sex on a sofa, in the shower, or a kitchen table. And seeing a woman wearing a turtle neck sweater does not set the blood rushing like fire through my veins. She was not dressed in any seductive way, nor did she allude to sex in any way. The suggestion of sex only existed in Pastor Michael Moore's obviously filthy mind.
Mato1970 1 year ago
@thelamb777 And it may surprise you to know that there are other things people do on a bed besides have sex, such as SLEEP, read a book (like the Bible), watch TV, or just generally relax. It's seductive? I didn't feel seduced when watching this. If they meant this to be seductive, why didn't they have her dress like Britney Spears or Lady Gaga? And why no man in the room with her? Wouldn't a man be needed for the suggestion of sex to be present?
Mato1970 1 year ago
@thelamb777 And I saw where her hands were in the scene where she walks away--by her pants pockets. So what! Nothing sexual about that! If you think her "female parts" are by her pants pockets, I suggest you take a remedial course in human anatomy. As the saying goes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Mato1970 1 year ago
don't of sex much or do you just hate women.
leerogers123 1 year ago
looks to me like watching the video is more revealing than listening to song on audio only
phoenixangel1120 1 year ago
Bird is the word, and groove is in the heart! lol;)
HelloKittyNYC7 1 year ago
So conclusively, Harmony is good, rhythm is evil?!
If anybody could recommend fundamentally creditable sources, it could be great.
I am African, and there's a lot of mysticism and supernatural stories and practices, and some of those rituals use regular things that may not strike as demonic, such as soap, yes, I said soap. So, does that mean that soap is inherently evil? That's what conflicts in terms of the sound or rhythm of drums in any form of music, even Asians have drums in their music.
Anfmethodjor 1 year ago
@Anfmethodjor This is was worth it to watch because I honestly now have a stronger belief on the esoteric meaning of symbols. I have been told before about it, but I was quite skeptical. Because I believe that the meaning that you believe is powerful enough to dismay contradictory connotations, but I'm not that convinced anymore because in Rome, do as Romans, and unfortunately, this is not only a secular existence, so if you're sending a message, be well informed about who may be receiving it.
Anfmethodjor 1 year ago
Joh 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Joh 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
superkal2006 1 year ago
@superkal2006 Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
superkal2006 1 year ago
@asmodeous9 When I see X instead of Christ, I know enough about you to ignore the rest of your post. Sorry bub
sparwood8 1 year ago
I have, on my playlists, some music from 1955-1970, all the way from the Maguire sisters, to CCr Suzy Q. I am going to do hi ssugestion of 2 weeks etc. I am now convinced I will likely not keep very many of them, if any at all.
I am reminded of Paul Anka's sone, "Diana" ... Interesting... I believe everything these folks are saying, and i am not some impressionable kid, but a 65 y.o. Christian
sparwood8 1 year ago
@asmodeous9 Either that or you are blind as a bat, spiritually
sparwood8 1 year ago
Dude, this chick may as well be saying "Lay in my bed, you can trust me." lol Seriously? This is considered Christian music?! Terrible!XP
HelloKittyNYC7 1 year ago
@HelloKittyNYC7 The devil has blinded them, so that they are no longer able to discern good from evil. The Holy Spirit is so grieved by this noise. But iof today's so called Christians are not Spirit -FILLED, they are going to lose, in fact, they might not be Christians at all.
sparwood8 1 year ago
@asmodeous9 it may not be that suggestive but she definitely was NOT glorifying Jesus in any way and that was what he was trying to say. if someone who didn't know christ and did not know she was a christian heard this song, jesus would not be the first to come in mind when listening to this song.
veroinuyasha 1 year ago
How can you speak when the serpents got your tongue?
igottehgoodstuffz 1 year ago
im not a pastor but these videos were truely for me
ezequiel723 1 year ago
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Dear brothers and sisters,
please really think about this videos and pray for wisdom ... I think that many things of what this guy says, are true. There is many ccm that definitely is not christian! Think about it.
But there is also ccm which can not be evil: what about e.g. Jeremy Camp? His (rock)music brought me into a closer relationship with Jesus! I think this can't be evil! sry 4 my bad english, i m german ;-)
God bless you
blub608 1 year ago
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blub608 1 year ago
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blub608 1 year ago
I can't believe this kind of narrow minded defense of the Gospel is still around.
DRIMCRAZY 1 year ago
@DRIMCRAZY
Jesus said NARROW is the way that leads to life.
The broad way leads to destruction.
ACallToHoliness 1 year ago
@ACallToHoliness Amen to that! lol But I do think the whole thing he says about using drums is a bit extreme: I mean, look at all the good Christian bands that use drums? Mercy Me, Seventh Day Slumber, Hillsong United--even Chris Tomlin, in some songs! What the hell does this guy listen to?! That should be the REAL question, because there is much reference in the Bible that music should bring you joy, and be sung with joy! Look at the use of tambourines after the parting of the Red Sea!
HelloKittyNYC7 1 year ago
@HelloKittyNYC7 Chris Tomlin I don't mind...Beats are ohkay as long as they're not emphasized and as long as people aren't OBSESSED upon them...Hillsong is filled with a bunch of greedy, fornicating ACTORS...All they care about is your money, and the pastor John Austin or something [forgot his name] reaps all the benefits and robs you of your free will and BANK ACCOUNT! PERIOD!
thelamb777 1 year ago
@asmodeous9
That woman was wearing a turtleneck lol. I would not call that suggestive but for this guy who is so deprived it is not much of a stretch for his imagination.
EdStark22 2 years ago
Thank you brother, for that wonderful video series. I have been studying about occult symbolism in music for awhile, but never would I have dreamed that it would be in Christian music. You are doing something great and despite the people that will criticize you, PEOPLE ARE LISTENING. And I just want to encourage you because JESUS IS COMING, brother. We all have to do our part in these last days.
momof2preciousangels 2 years ago
There are all kinds of music that is deceptive and the devil is a having a hay day in the church's with it. I grew up in church and it's sad to report that the church I used to goto is corrupted by the subject at hand. They have a hard rock band that is sadly decieved, one of the members is an old high school friend and tells me its all for God but the music they play is straight from hell. The guitar player is running it like a communist regime no imput from others, what he says goes.
jett5689 2 years ago
GOD created music for his glory to be used to worship him, its just that Lucifer twisted and preverted it to his liking. Music is a strong tool used by satan and In the wrong hands it can decieve millions to satan/hell. In the mid 80's I could of had fame and fortune but I passed because thats blood on your hands if you become an Idol in the musical world and used by the devil. In a way your bringing ppl to the devil and thats the last thing I would want on my hands and conscience.
jett5689 2 years ago
Even though I don't rate Crystal Lewis's video, I feel the presenter is a tad harsh.Beautiful woman, christian or not are sensual beings, & Crystal is beautiful - God made them that way. Maybe it wasn't the wisest move to shoot it in the bedroom but this video can symbolize biblical positive things (I'll let you decide that). God Bless.
breakmillion 2 years ago
There needs to be some understanding here, that a extremely frustrated, emotionally driven teenager, is more likely going to be better ministered too by a song with "chuggy" guitars but is about Jesus being more than able to handle her situation, than a hymn with the same words.
synthapathizer 2 years ago
As someone who God has made to create things. It is my job, in a way like a pastor, to create visual and musical "things" that will be understood by my audience. The world today really actually does use a visual and auditory language that is ever changing. (I'm not arguing about Hoggard's specifics...those seem to be more oversights in production)
synthapathizer 2 years ago
I hope that people reading this who aren't sure whether Christianity is something they want to pursue aren't turned off by these arguments.
I'm a musician, and a graphic designer, and a person who is a servant of God, who desires to see God glorified. Mike Hoggard, has picked out some examples here that seem pretty obvious.... and then made some fairly huge generalizations, and used some pretty inflaming language...
I thought this video series was helpful... but mostly damaging.
synthapathizer 2 years ago
Most of these artists probably are great people and struggle with music as a stronghold(like myself) My opinion and it's just opinion, is that unfortunetly if you want to have the mind of Christ
You HAVE to come out from the world, or you'll remain worldy. It has nothing to do with how they're trying to reach a broader audience. If they do get big...does their faith get more radical..or more worldly. Also..I'm preching to myself...so don't bash me. Music has been a powerful idol to me. Pray.
metaltildeath4eva 2 years ago
Even though this man seems like a nice man, who cares about people. This series was dissapointing. I can't see any evidence to support any of his claims.
Sixpence(who I know but don't listen to) probably had nothing to do with how the video was made....as do most of these artists. Most people miss the point.
The reason that most of this music is worldly..is because the artists are. It's not about Christ it's about Money. Selling a clean image and making a career to live off of.
metaltildeath4eva 2 years ago
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Amen, God bless
slick0567 2 years ago
As I was listening to some of the music I started to shake my foot to the beat. and realized that it was almost controlling me.
sifuhone 2 years ago
LOL me too!
rfrye27 2 years ago
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
Proverbs 15:1
unparalleledgirl 2 years ago
rfrye, I have responded publicly to your public comment, and will respond privately to your private comment, and I wont close the discussion by having the last word and fulminating that "I wont talk to you anymore". We can discuss it publicly, or privately, as adults for as little or as long as you want to.
I'm disapointed at your angry approach, but I'm not angry with you and I suspect there's much more behind it than the issues Hoggard (who I kknow nothing of personally) has raised.
OneJohnFiveTwelve 2 years ago
If you're disappointed that I'm angry....get used to it. When I see my generation rejecting Christ solely based on the actions and words of people like you and this pastor I think I have the right to be angry. There's nothing more to my anger than that.
rfrye27 2 years ago
Churches are losing people because of self righteous motive mongering legalists like you. You make my job harder and you make me want to tell the world how wrong your brand of Christianity is. Thanks for the motivation. You're a Pharisee. You need to be freed from your self serving legalistic ways.
rfrye27 2 years ago
Say all you like, get thee behind me Satan! Accuser of the Brethren, yes the truth hurts and offends. Bless you Pastor Mike these dark things need the light to expose them.
laurian27453 2 years ago
You think I'm Satan? You really are deranged. My friend, satan is much more crafty and evil than I'll ever be...by the Grace of God. I'll also never be self righteous like you and the pastor in this vid. I'm only righteous because of Jesus Christ.
rfrye27 2 years ago
rfrye, You're just not listening to what is being said in these videos. You respond emotionally because you like your rock music, not because you can defend it scripturally.
Please, stop throwing the "self righteous" accusation about. The way you're doing it its totally meaningless. With comments like, "you make my job harder" you are the only one magnifying self. Its a totally irrelevant remark to be directing at the author, or people like laurian who are simply opposing your views.
OneJohnFiveTwelve 2 years ago
OJFT, I like ALL music. I am careful about the lyrics I listen to...but not something as silly as staying away from certain styles of music like this pastor proposes. The Bible supports my position more than it does this pastor's. Ever heard of drums and LOUD music being referenced in the Old Testament?
rfrye27 2 years ago
You and this pastor find comfort in your legalism just like the Pharisees did. When will you realize that it is ONLY Jesus' sacrifice that makes you righteous and not your pious ways? I pitty you.
rfrye27 2 years ago
'Legalism' is another copout to justify... well just about anything rfrye.
It wasnt legalism that inspired Paul to exhort the Thessalonians, "Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly"
Hoggard is not talking about righteusness unto salvation. He isn't talking about "piety". As Paul frequently did, he is talking about practices that are (A) spiritually dangerous and (B) dishonouring to God.
Jesus' sacrifice isn't a license to emulate the world.
OneJohnFiveTwelve 2 years ago
rfrye, thanks for replying.
Let's see your scriptural argument.
Cheers
OneJohnFiveTwelve 2 years ago
rfrye, Hoggard hasn't discussed VOLUME, neither have I picked up on him saying DRUMS are evil.
Nevertheless, volume can certainly be used to help create altered states of consciousness. Put that together with the hypnotic BEATS that Hoggard has discussed, and you have the reason it figures so heavily in voodoo.
Not all beats and rythms or loud music does it. Listen to the 1812 Overture - turn it up loud. Plenty of drums, but it wont foster sexual thoughts or induce an altered state.
OneJohnFiveTwelve 2 years ago
"Not all beats and rythms or loud music does it. Listen to the 1812 Overture - turn it up loud. Plenty of drums, but it wont foster sexual thoughts or induce an altered state."
This statement right here is why I won't talk to you any longer about this. It's pure nonsense like this pastor. You want scripture? Where's the scripture that supports abstaining from certain beats? Please read the private message I sent you.
rfrye27 2 years ago
rfrye, you asserted "It's pure nonsense .." but an assertion without reasoning is pretty meaningless, except insofar as it vents an unsupported opinion. Likewise, name-calling only indicates immaturity and lack of a solid argument.
I have given you reasoning in my messages that you haven't addressed, except to display anger at me for daring to say things you don't like.
You assert that the Bible supports your position more than it does Hoggards, but you baulk at a scriptural discussion.
OneJohnFiveTwelve 2 years ago
I'm going to back this argument up for a sec. This pastor seems to have two issues with rock music culture: 1. The style of Music because it has "evil beats" that could "control" you to think bad things etc. and 2. The way they look...i.e. tattoos and piercings becasue that is "being like the world"....
rfrye27 2 years ago
When I said the Bible supports my position more than this pastor's it's because the Bible doesn't say anything about the kinds of music one should listen to, it only says to be loud, joyful and to use all sorts of instruments including drums. You and this pastor are basing your arguments on the sinful mistakes of other rock musicians and your own personal preferences and the traditions of legalistic churches....
rfrye27 2 years ago
Which is WRONG. You can't tell people something is ungodly and evil simply because some one else uses a benign thing like music to sin and simply because you don't like the style of music. That is wrong, you can't do that. As to the second point (not looking like the world) when did tattoos and piercings equal looking like and associating with the world? When the Bible says we aren't to conform to this world is speaking about our hearts and how we behave in this world, not in the way we look.
rfrye27 2 years ago
If it was about the way we look, then we should shave our heads and wear something like a tunic which no one who is worldly would wear these days. There are plenty of clean cut people in suits and formal business clothing that are far more evil, worldly, and sinful than the tattooed pierced kid that likes to play his electric guitar in his garage band.
rfrye27 2 years ago
For example...I think our president is very worldly and wicked. So maybe we should stop wearing business casual clothing and suits? You see, that logic is not right. It's about our HEARTS being right and godly ....not our dress or fashion.
rfrye27 2 years ago
well said
Greaver007 2 years ago
Sorry, not well said, how do you know how evil some one is rfrye27? No-one can tell, but what is on the outside is an example of who and what they worship.
sifuhone 2 years ago
how can you say that? it actually does matter what kind of music you listen to, metal for example is satanic and it does have a negative influence on people. i dont consider even the christian metal music christian. its crazy. and satan is strongely using music as a tool to draw people into the worlf today. we shouldnt be friends with the world or anything that comes from its origin and alot of this music does.
shvibzik123 2 years ago
you should spend less time reading cultic books and listening to conspiracy theories (Isaiah 8:12) and more time preaching Christ and the Gospel. You just seem like a nut, and a legalist.
If Paul was here today he would with love let you know that you could eat the meat sacrificed to the Idols. But he would also not eat the meat sacraficed to idols because you are weak and would be offended, be weakened, and stumble.
Edentulate 2 years ago
sir,i've just watched your vid series, and must say i mostly agree w/ what you say. i'm a member of a local independent KJV baptist church in the south,but i'm a drummer and i do what i do tastefully, in church for the Lord.we don't play rock music in our church,though it's mixed w/ old time gospel music and contemporary christian,i know what i do is for the Lord and that He has taught me what I know and now i use it on Youtube to help others learn the drumsit just seemed you were against drums
hughman174 2 years ago
i know you're trying to do the Lords work. just correct me if i'm wrong. many christians believe it's ok to sing to an old gospel track w/ drums, but if the drums are live, then it's not right. i know it's all personal conviction. alot of people have double standards. i'm just trying to use, respectfully, what the Lord has given me. God bless you in your work
hughman174 2 years ago
circulate this video people,to friends and family.time for a REAL change!!!!!!!!!!!!united we will stand!!!don't let satan decieve the children of God anymore!!!
hotties3v3n 2 years ago
isn't being a hottie a deceit of God because you're using Satan to lure men in and have sex with them?
tdawgheath 2 years ago
just goes to show u really don't know me,and definately should'nt attempt to judge me by my youtube screen name,but i suppose i'll change it so people like u stop accusing me of things i'm not doing.
hotties3v3n 2 years ago
No, I was very much kidding about the whole theme of these videos. VERY MUCH. And you're right I don't know you. And wasn't ACTUALLY judging you, the way this man might.
tdawgheath 2 years ago