Arrau is one of my favorite pianists and I have the deepest respect for him; however I can't help but find it funny how sometimes he looks exactly like Jerry Stiller.
I think also it shouldn't be overlooked that he is *80* years old here playing at this caliber.
@swergiopc you are the arrogant one with your first comment, everybody is entitled to an honest opinion, i respect Arrau but personally i am not taken on this interpretation and having played it i feel i have the right to pass comment
@afertyus1000 Leslie howard is an interesting pianist. Recording all the works of liszt is insane. I think combined he has more hours of music in his compositions than sorabji, and Sorabji wrote pieces that are 4 hours long.
i always wonder how much , if any , of Martin Krause's influence could still be felt after so many years of playing and thinking this music. After all Arrau was only about 15 when Krause died . .. still, that was a direct link to the composer himself.
I am growing less and less critical about pianists, music, composers, and comparing interpretations. This one is superb, but I'm sure there are many out there that are also superb! And there are probably some that aren't so superb.
Arrau was always one of the most SATISFYING of musicians. Such depth and emphasis always there. He always projects the deepest commitment in his playing.
No way. I like Horowitz, a great pianist, but none of his recordings of this works are even close to the understanding of Arrau at this point. Arrau was a far better musician than Horowitz, that's unquestionable. No one can say other way nor with technical arguments, nor with musical arguments. You may like more Horowitz because his showy way to play the piano, but Arrau was always a better pianist and a better musician... just compare the tons of repertoire that Arrau had over Horowitz.
if anything, Arrau was more concerned with music making and its depth, maturity, grandeur. Horowitz cares more for sake of show, individuality, eccentricity, all that will have the crowd jump and cheer for. In a lot of ways, i think Arrau was to Liszt what Rubinstein was to Chopin
@EdiEllerymissing Well the question is .. How much of the reportoire that Arrau and Horowitz had was of their own music? none. My point is they may be great pianists at playing others music but I never heard them compose their own music though.
Oh, well...I heard some music composed by Horowitz...Like a Fantasia on the Carmen of Bizet and the arrangement of the Saint'saens/Liszt's Dance Macabre...
@EdiEllerymissing Hi, I recommend you the Rubinstein's interview, He tells about many interesting things, like visions of the music. He doesn't compare the differents pianist, you should see it :).
@EdiEllerymissing he really did bring the music to life.... horowitz on the other hand... brought the show to life. two completely different motives in performing... i have to say i do enjoy Arrau much more..
I totally agree that the old Arrau's massive sound has no comparison, especially in Liszt, which is not really surprising regarding his personnal connection with this composer. But you're just doing the same mistake as everyone who tries to establish a hierarchy between two totally different things. Just listen to Horowitz's lasts concerts and you'll understand that his rubato is absolutely unique. More, he was a composer, which Arrau wasn't.
@EdiEllerymissing I find that Horowitz's playing oftentimes includes rubato and dynamics that are not in the score...sometimes I feel like Horowitz is a genius for doing it...but sometimes I feel that Horowitz is taking too much liberties and is wrong...that's how I feel about Horowitz...Arrau on the other hand, plays very much to the score...which is good.
Sadly, comparing Arrau and Horowitz is not so easy as only saying one is better. Personal opinions are not universal truth... maybe, if precise features of Arrau and Horowitz interpretations were contrasted, we could have useful discussion. But as it is, I can say "I prefer Arrau here" and what use is this to anybody in the world? Who cares? Why is it so popular, to argue about idols, instead of the performances themselves?
totally agree with you- I read the comments because SOMETIMES there are really nice comments about how the viewer/listener is inspired and says nice thoughtful things....unfortunately there is so many people that want to show off and pretend they are really smart when we all know the best in whatever field are often times the most humble. at least that is my experience.
i tip my hat to you. i believe it is totally true that humility shows prowess... and indeed it is true that most of the people who give the unhelpful criticism's in ANY field are often inexperienced themselves and only want to trick themselves into a false sense of security of actually "knowing" something. fortunately they do not trick anyone but themselves
was there any point in saying that? all this does is start arguments... liking a pianist isnt universal... so please...just say horowitz is good, dont compare it with aanother pianist that also has an unique style of interpretation... after all music is music ...
For me , his best recordng was the complete Beethoven concerti with Bernhart haitnik and the Amsterdam Contcergewau. It was really amazing. The onñly i dind´t like, was the cadenza he usase in the 1st movement of IV concerto ( G mayor) . I prefers the shortest one.
Only Arrau truly understood the meaning of this piece. Under lesser hands, this 'epic' piece becomes trite and banal. But under Arrau, it becomes a true listening experience, as Liszt wanted it - heavenly, stormy, passionate, tragic, and triumphant
Of course, it's subjective because it's an opinion. But it's an opinion based on knowing this piece very well - I'm a classical pianist, just like Arrau, and I have played this piece in concerts many times. What's your point?
Well i really don´t play this piece in public never. I studied , but i never like it too much. As you said, is banal for essence. doesn´t matter if is played by GOD. That`s the reason of my coment, if you have pianists like Czifra, Sandor, Berman, Hamelin, etc, who technicaly are superior to Arrau ,,so your coment is not apropriate for my point of view. That´s my point.
You know, it's okay if you don't like Arrau and his playing. Other people don't like him either, and that's fine. However, I disagree that the pianists you mentioned ( I'm familiar with all of them and their level of playing) are technically superior to Arrau. Arrau's art is different from them. As well, if you haven't really understood this piece, and have not played it in public, then you don't really know it. Commenting on something you don't really know is not cool - it makes you look bad.
You are wrong: I liked Arrau playing, and consider him among great musicians ( more than a great pianist) . Why? because his technical aproach, despite The Joseph Horowitz book about him, etc, was extremely emphiric. Anyway , it works fine with him.The prove?: He never had a great pupil. The understanding of a piece has nothing to do if you play in public or not. In my case is becuase i consider it : Cheap music. It can look me bad , but you coment makes you look as an asshole.
Arrau never had a great pupil? The famous American pianist, Garrick Ohlsson, was a pupil of Arrau, and proudly considers himself an Arrau product. One of the most respected and celebrated piano professors in the US, James Tocco, was also a pupil of Arrau. And yes, to truly understand a piece of music, one has to perform it, as the performance adds a different dimension to the understanding of the piece, different from just learning it. Studying it is very good, but not enough to truly know it.
Garrick Olson is not a great pianist. Maybe for you, Second : He is "American"? yes , but form US remember "America" is not a country but a continent with 3 sub-continents. North, Central, and South....
James Tocco....Bahhhh............
And concerning Olson , he coul considered himself a product of Arrau, but is not true, he had have other teachers.
Arrau NEVER had a real pupil in the real sense of the word.
To your information toronto...... the most siificative
most significative Arrau pupil was Rafael Silva who founded an Academy in NY and teached many years under the Arrau guidance. Arrau came to US every end of the year and gave masterclasses to those pupils from Dic 15 to Dic 29 , and thta was all. Was another pupil of Arrau, who begun a great career but died prematurily due to a cancer. His name was Gregorio Caro. Grete Sultan was a famous teacher , i don´t know why..And Tapia Caballero was a good pianist but not more than that.
Any way his school was a kind of a sterile one. Anyway as any genious, Arrau has had his own laws concerning piano playing ...Not applicable to common mortals.
And concernng this piece, is cheap.
I still cannot understand WHY Arrau speaks very bad about Rachmaninooff music, but at the same time he used to play many liszt music, but not the great neccesarily as the B mnor sonata, but the cheap one. Very strange.
Garrick Ohlsson is hailed as a great pianist by critics and audiences WORLDWIDE. Further, you can find him in several books about great pianists. That's a fact and you cant' refute it. And yes, he's an American - from the United States of AMERICA! And it's true that he had other teachers(Gorodnitzki). But if you're a pianist, then you must know that pianists tend to have more than one teacher during their training. Garrick Ohlsson had Arrau as one of his teachers, making him an Arrau pupil.
Even Martha Argerich, who considers herself a Gulda pupil, studied with several people - Scaramuzza, Magaloff, Michelangeli, Askenasi, Curcio. As for Rafael Da Silva, he was a very important Arrau pupil, but didn't have the international reputation that we are talking about. He was more well-known among Arrau's disciples. And about James Tocco, do you even know him? Students from all over the world study with him at the Manhattan school and Cincinnati Conservatory. He's that well-known.
It's too bad that you don't like this music because it's good music.The problem is the way many pianists play it - superficial and without a full understanding of the drama that needs to be discovered in the music. And when it's played superficially, audiences have a hard time liking it.
Arrau didn't say Rachmaninoff's music is very bad. He described Rachmaninoff's music as 'movie music', which in some ways is true because of his beautiful melodies. But they are not as deep as Beethoven's music. That's what he meant.
From an interview, an entire book in form of an interview actually, I can say that Arrau was really arrogant.
Just hearing how he described his playing (he said that if you needed to warm up before a recital, your technique was not right and you were a fool...).
He also had no qualms about critisising great composers in a fairly haughty way.
Compared to Horowitz, he was a much arrogant person, but i doubt he could allow himself to do that when even Horowitz'd kept simple and down-to-earth :)
True. Horowitz . At least as a pianists was superior than Arrau. Arrau was apprentñy very humble, but not true. And i have prove than him diond´t know how a piano action is. ( As many assholes famous pienists) . HE was terribly emphiric, but at the same time he was a musical genious. So he was a great pianist. But if you compàre the pianims of Rubienstein, Micehleangelli, etc. they were far better as pianists than him.
Of course . I know it. but in a very despreciative way. Anyway, he recorded an outstnading version of RAK II as a soundtrack of the famous old movie with Vittorio Gassman and Liz Taylor "Rapshody" . So funny Rachmaninoff not as deep as Beethoven ( i agree 100%) ..BUT despite it , he plays this cheap Ballade No2 .......ODn´t you think it is a big contradiction? .
Martha Argerich is a SUPERIOR pianist in the complete sense of the word. The teacher she aciated much more than others was Goulda ( great pianist too) . Michelangelli was to bad with her. He send her to be a good housewife, instead to be a pianist. Well Michelangelli a divine pianist anf genious was a littel crazy personality too. James Tocco...BAH¡¡... i don´t care if 500,000 people want to study wityh him. He has nothing to do in this coment. Arrau was an sterile school.
Lokopiano, why you say "I don't care if 500000 people want to study with him", but later you say "Arrau was a sterile school"?... Didn't you say before this kind of information is not relevant for you?
When you say Martha Argerich is superior (in big letters) than C. Arrau?... what is exactly you mean, what is this supposed superiority? also, how can Argerich be superior to Arrau if he was considered by many specialists the biggest interpreter of Beethoven's work in XX century?
Now morebthan 200000000people maybe, :-) want tyo study with Lang Lang ...and you know what kind of "artist" LOL he is.
Arrau´s school was completely sterile. JUst give ONE name who trascend in the musical world of pianists. I know all those names, and n one was nothing even close to great pianist.
The best one was probably Gregorio Caro who died in the late fifties.
The Arrau point of view of technique you can take a look spcially in the Joseph Horowitz book where are some interesting "·Tricks" concerning some aproach concerning fingering but at the same time, technical ideas completey wrong and irrational.
The young Arrau ( if you watch his old videos) play with a lot of movements in order to have "Relaxation" ...:-) False. He just did it and he was succesfull becuase he was
a real genious. But genious has it own laws nty common to any normal mortal. Real great technique ( As Martha Argerich , as Michelangelli, etc. ) is made first of all with a knowledge of human anatomy + psico motricity , and a lot of real intelligence.
I know due to the people of my context , Once Arrau got a question from the piano tuner who was tuning his piano for the evening recital ( to be exactly in Lima Peru ) in thje year 1959 , concerning if he want
some improvement in the hammers to have a little sharp sound instead of the opac that Stenway had. He answer: just do what you want to do, becuase i know the piano until the keyboard, what is under the lid.......i just don´t know nothing about. Amazing¡¡¡¡¡¡That maybe was not too bad as an attitude, becuase pianists of his generatione mostly were thinking in a world plenty of litrature, and poetry, and the idea of any rationallity was ugly for them. On of them was Arrau. So How
a pianist like this can "Make " a pianist since the very , or medium begginig of his studies? A different story is if he had a pupil like Garrick Olshon who arrived to him when he already is a piánist ¡¡¡¡ Thats a different story.
The old Arrau improved his technique a lot . Less silly movements when he play, etc. because at old age things are not so easy as when you are young. Many people around him have a theory : he copy many things of Rubinstein ( a phenomenal master pianist)
ho had a perfect technique too. And despite Arrau always feel a kind of natural adversion to him due to his personallity, but the rallity is the reallity. Is yopu obsreve in tha last years Arrau plays with a lower bench, Few movements, and most times his arms hang on the keyboard instead of pushing it ( as in the the young years).
And other funny thing of his personallity. He despiced most rachmaninoff works, but he doesn´t hesitate toplay sometimes cheap Liszt repetoire like this Ballade
which is really among Liszt works one of the cehapest ones. I love some Liszt music, but "Some", not all. Welk tah´s have to do whit taste ( a diferent story) .
Form the technical side many pianists were superior to him . Argerich, Gulda, Michelangelli, Pollini, Rubinstein, Horowitz, Berman, etc.
Anyway he was a great artist and a great musical inspiration to many artists. AND completely honest with his way of make music.
What's technical superiority for you? First, it seems to me that you have a rather narrow definition of technique that looks at a "correct" way of using ones fingers and arms and body. But as you said: It worked fine with him, which makes sense because there are important physical differences between different persons. Second, shouldnt we judge technique rather on the outcome of an artists efforts? And isnt Arraus sonority, his capability to play an unmatched Beethoven, a poetic Chopin,
a powerful, colorful Liszt, an highly idiomatic Brahms proof enough of great technical skills? Third, I am surprised that you claim that Arrau improved his technique a lot when he was older. Well, I can't hear the slightest technical problems in the recordings Arrau made in the 20ies and 30ies. On the contrary, they show an explosive pianist with fire and utmost control.
a Little dificult to explain. Let me put it in this way : Arrau a a genious As a young man , make things easier due to his early age. When you get old eveerytthing ys a little harder than before, SO Arrau as an old man need finally to think mor about conerning his technique: A an old pianist y0ou can observe , his ppiano bench was lower than before, He played when the fingers much closer to the keyboard. He avoid superficial moevments like in his early years, etc. etc.
My friend , that´s is a long thing to explain via internet. BUT if you are a Samuil Feimberg fan and if you have the oportunity to find some old film of his playing; HE have had a perfect technique.
I knew two of his pupils and i know all his tecnical principles.especially the use of hangin on the keyboard, instead of pushing it,AND the clear idea about the ridicoulous aplication of "Weight Body" on the keyboard:a thing which physycally is impossible. The body weight is on the piano bench.
Un fortunately i don´t know too where to find them , (if them exist) , my old friends ( around 70 years old each one) told me all about his technical principles concerniong palying piano.
What i most love form tha great master Samuil Feimberg are his Scriabin Sonatas, and the mazurkas are out of this world. His Mozart was magic.
HO..HO.. you torontochopin, should be called TONTOCHOPIN ..look in a Spanish Dictionary........I don´t care about critics, reviewers. I ma on the field. I am a professional pianist with a career. So don´t teach who is who.
Concerning United Sates of America, is not the same to say " My country is AMERICA" are you trying to be an assholke, or you really are one?
So becuase China ins the biggest country in popuplation in the world, and the biggest in Asia
Tomorrow they woul like to call themselves "ASIANS" ? and what about Korea, Japan, etc. ? what are they .MARTIANS?. Your stuoid answer is just a product of the inmense ignorance of the media avergae "AMERICAN" LOL.
Is nor AMERICA idiot is US or USA or anything you want to call it, but to say i am AMERICAN is a n extreme ignorance and ARROGANCE, what about Canadians? Mexicans? Panameninas, Argentinias? Peruvians? Chileans? Venazuelnas? and so on?. ANd if you agrre with the term 2American"
"American" ,,,so tomorrow A Canadian can answer to a question "Where are you form? = I am American.
The same question to an Colombian? = I am Amreican, What is your country? = America (Colombia) , Did you understand asshole?.
Your argument as ARRAU pupil is not bad, but is not a real consistent and formed by him. Juts Olsosn get extremeñly impressed with the apparently modesty of Arrau, as many of his asskissers.
lokopiano: I've been respectful of you during this argument. I've never called you names, but you have called me an asshole, tonto, stupid, etc. That's not nice. You seem to have a lot of anger. If you're angry, there are better ways to express anger, in a healthy way, so that it doesn`t hurt you. Do you really have to be that angry to make your point? It`s not really necessary and it's bad for your health. If you`re really a professional pianist, then argue professionally. Be respectful.
Uhm you are right...i will no make more bad language against you.The probelm in these last three days we ( we are 4 pianists) were dealing with many
assholes. :-) and sometimes due to a too much coments sometimes we forget if we were making a"war" against you or against others.I realize(i am one of the 4) yoou were not the bad one..Sounds crazy, but we are writing coments 24 hours a day(we live in differnte countries)Anyway in few days no more coments because we have to prepare new repertoire
Thank you, lokopiano, for your comment. See, it's not that difficult to be respectful. You're actually capable of being one. You don't have to use bad language when you argue - it's not the best way to argue, and you end up being attacked by other people. Just be very clear with your ideas and try to avoid using bad words. Good luck to you!
Well.. that of the bad language is a kind of inertia form the Lang Lang links...........and some of that language is just to protect our profiles some times.
Las obras musicales no son para que las juzguen los intérpretes, sino para que las disfruten quienes las oyen. Son creadas para satisfacer el mundo subjetivo del corazón, los sentimientos y los gustos sumamente subjetivos de quienes las disfrutan y de quienes las crean.
El intérpretre no es más que un vehículo que debe establecer ese vínculo subjetivo entre ambos puntos. Un intérprete que entienda sólo la técnica es un mal intérprete.
En ningún momento he dicho que la técnica en forma aislada , sea lo que determine al gran artista o no. Lo que quiero decir es que es una parte importantísima.
La música es el fin. La técnica en el 90% de los casos es el medio que conduce hacia el fin. EN el caso de arrau con una técnica irracional, llegó a hacer maravillas.
Como todo genio , acomoda las cosas a su propia naturaleza de genio y sigue sus proppias leyes no comunes para los simples mortales.
This is just wonderful! After hearing so many of the young "hot-shots" playing Mazeppa, Feux Follets, the Mephisto Waltz with all their breathtaking power, technical prowess and brillance, it's marvellous to hear somebody really play LISZT - Liszt the great and profound composer who was on an equal level with Chopin, Brahms and Schumann. All these otherwise fantastic piano virtuosos of nowadays should listen and take an example on performances such as these of Liszt's oeuvre!!!!!!!!
I am in perfect agreement with you. His set of the transcendentals, recorded when he was about 80 or so are the best. I loved the set before I heard Arrau but I didn't truly understand their greatness until I heard him in that recording.
yes, everything sounds different when he plays it, and it's true, I heard this ballade played by Horowitz and by Leslie Howard and I really didn't like very much the work, but since I heard this playing a few months ago I started to love this piece, this is the twice I see this video and I really felt the music with this playing
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Mis mas grandes respetos para el maestro Claudio Arrau
rafjuven 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mis mas grandes respetos para el maestro Claudio Arrau
rafjuven 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mis mas grandes respetos para el maestro Claudio Arrau
rafjuven 1 month ago
Mis mas grandes respetos para el maestro Claudio Arrau
rafjuven 1 month ago 2
Mis mas grandes respetos para el maestro Claudio Arrau
rafjuven 1 month ago
I actually tried playing this piece. My left hand almost fell off when I was halfway through it...
MANGOES1ARE1AWESOME1 2 months ago
Arrau, the only one who has understood Liszt and has rendered his true meaning at the piano...
Ray0X0 3 months ago 2
Arrau is one of my favorite pianists and I have the deepest respect for him; however I can't help but find it funny how sometimes he looks exactly like Jerry Stiller.
I think also it shouldn't be overlooked that he is *80* years old here playing at this caliber.
=)
Gibson29 5 months ago
How Ballade 2 should be played
1hipster1 5 months ago
2:37-2:45 sounds like something on Radiohead's Kid A, . Wonder if it's a coincidence or if Radiohead borrowed it, haha. Great performance nonetheless
thusspokethompson 7 months ago 4
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Radiohead203U29 2 weeks ago
@thusspokethompson Everything in its right place
Radiohead203U29 2 weeks ago
I don't know why most people don't like Liszt. Some pieces are so wonderful.
JohnRift 7 months ago
@JohnRift ? is that true? i love loads of his pieces
afertyus1000 7 months ago
is it cold in there? at 0.6 steam comes out his mouth?
afertyus1000 11 months ago
@afertyus1000 Cigarette smoke maybe?
MrPaevo 7 months ago
@MrPaevo yea possibly he shouldn't smoke while playing [nowhere to put ashtray lol]
afertyus1000 7 months ago
From 4:37 to 5:10 the sound is from out of this world... the sound is indescribably passionate ! .
Ray0X0 11 months ago
I like the deep, melancholy overtones.
LordCalvinHastings 1 year ago
A brilliant, sensitive interpretation. Bravo!
ssprokofiev 1 year ago
The begin is very influenced by the Chopin's Ballade 2
OceanbornSWT 1 year ago
dall'inquietudine...alla discrezione + gentile...piaciuto molto...
bruccheri70 1 year ago
This is breathtakingly beautiful.He really takes you into the piece...
nousernamewhatsoever 1 year ago
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Ray0X0 1 year ago
This very surprisingly changed my point of view on Liszt dramatically.
Desmonddd2002 1 year ago 4
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Ray0X0 1 year ago
@Desmonddd2002 I think it is so because no other pianist has really understood and interpreted Liszt but Claudio Arrau.
Ray0X0 11 months ago 2
@Ray0X0 i don't like his liszt in this one
afertyus1000 7 months ago
@afertyus1000 I'm fascinated...
Ray0X0 7 months ago
@afertyus1000 you dont know anything about music...
swergiopc 1 month ago
@swergiopc and you do? haha i play all his works you just listen mr no talent
afertyus1000 1 month ago
@afertyus1000 to play them doesn't mean you know more about music than others, dont be that arrogant
swergiopc 1 month ago
@swergiopc you are the arrogant one with your first comment, everybody is entitled to an honest opinion, i respect Arrau but personally i am not taken on this interpretation and having played it i feel i have the right to pass comment
afertyus1000 1 month ago
@afertyus1000 Are you saying that you play all the works of liszt? I don't even think that's possible.
PhillyB702 1 month ago
@PhillyB702 no not at all! but Leslie howard recorded all Liszt piano music
afertyus1000 1 month ago
@afertyus1000 Leslie howard is an interesting pianist. Recording all the works of liszt is insane. I think combined he has more hours of music in his compositions than sorabji, and Sorabji wrote pieces that are 4 hours long.
PhillyB702 1 month ago
@PhillyB702 wow i could never go near sorabji's music :)
afertyus1000 1 month ago
@afertyus1000 It's extremely challenging, but the real question is, is it worth it?
PhillyB702 1 month ago
@PhillyB702 yes and personally i would say no because i don't like it but some say differently? which is fair enough
afertyus1000 1 month ago
i always wonder how much , if any , of Martin Krause's influence could still be felt after so many years of playing and thinking this music. After all Arrau was only about 15 when Krause died . .. still, that was a direct link to the composer himself.
238assante 1 year ago
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Ray0X0 1 year ago
I am growing less and less critical about pianists, music, composers, and comparing interpretations. This one is superb, but I'm sure there are many out there that are also superb! And there are probably some that aren't so superb.
5/5 for sure. :)
OrangeSodaKing 2 years ago 4
uh-huh
CHOCSAVEPROB 2 years ago
Arrau was always one of the most SATISFYING of musicians. Such depth and emphasis always there. He always projects the deepest commitment in his playing.
aardvaark069 2 years ago 12
You should try Leslie Howard's rendition. The best I ever heard
MMesh89 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i agree horowitz surpasses all
123coxy123 2 years ago
No way. I like Horowitz, a great pianist, but none of his recordings of this works are even close to the understanding of Arrau at this point. Arrau was a far better musician than Horowitz, that's unquestionable. No one can say other way nor with technical arguments, nor with musical arguments. You may like more Horowitz because his showy way to play the piano, but Arrau was always a better pianist and a better musician... just compare the tons of repertoire that Arrau had over Horowitz.
EdiEllerymissing 2 years ago 27
@EdiEllerymissing
if anything, Arrau was more concerned with music making and its depth, maturity, grandeur. Horowitz cares more for sake of show, individuality, eccentricity, all that will have the crowd jump and cheer for. In a lot of ways, i think Arrau was to Liszt what Rubinstein was to Chopin
libetta 2 years ago
@EdiEllerymissing Well the question is .. How much of the reportoire that Arrau and Horowitz had was of their own music? none. My point is they may be great pianists at playing others music but I never heard them compose their own music though.
firefws 2 years ago
I don't understand you.
EdiEllerymissing 2 years ago
Oh, well...I heard some music composed by Horowitz...Like a Fantasia on the Carmen of Bizet and the arrangement of the Saint'saens/Liszt's Dance Macabre...
shinyflygon35 2 years ago
Horowitz composed several pieces which he kept in his repetoire for some time, most notably the Carmen-Fantasie, or Virtuoso Fantasie
JohnEBPiano 1 year ago
@EdiEllerymissing Hi, I recommend you the Rubinstein's interview, He tells about many interesting things, like visions of the music. He doesn't compare the differents pianist, you should see it :).
TheCamilaOsses 7 months ago
@EdiEllerymissing he really did bring the music to life.... horowitz on the other hand... brought the show to life. two completely different motives in performing... i have to say i do enjoy Arrau much more..
maddorox 5 months ago 2
@EdiEllerymissing
I totally agree that the old Arrau's massive sound has no comparison, especially in Liszt, which is not really surprising regarding his personnal connection with this composer. But you're just doing the same mistake as everyone who tries to establish a hierarchy between two totally different things. Just listen to Horowitz's lasts concerts and you'll understand that his rubato is absolutely unique. More, he was a composer, which Arrau wasn't.
WAMEDJO 3 weeks ago
@EdiEllerymissing I find that Horowitz's playing oftentimes includes rubato and dynamics that are not in the score...sometimes I feel like Horowitz is a genius for doing it...but sometimes I feel that Horowitz is taking too much liberties and is wrong...that's how I feel about Horowitz...Arrau on the other hand, plays very much to the score...which is good.
asdfqwervd 1 week ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Vladimir Horowitz is the best! NO COMMENT!!! Arrau is incomparable with Horowitz.
nyghtschelet 2 years ago
Comment removed
Ray0X0 2 years ago
Sadly, comparing Arrau and Horowitz is not so easy as only saying one is better. Personal opinions are not universal truth... maybe, if precise features of Arrau and Horowitz interpretations were contrasted, we could have useful discussion. But as it is, I can say "I prefer Arrau here" and what use is this to anybody in the world? Who cares? Why is it so popular, to argue about idols, instead of the performances themselves?
RDSerebrianny 2 years ago 2
totally agree with you- I read the comments because SOMETIMES there are really nice comments about how the viewer/listener is inspired and says nice thoughtful things....unfortunately there is so many people that want to show off and pretend they are really smart when we all know the best in whatever field are often times the most humble. at least that is my experience.
dopeywonder 2 years ago 5
i tip my hat to you. i believe it is totally true that humility shows prowess... and indeed it is true that most of the people who give the unhelpful criticism's in ANY field are often inexperienced themselves and only want to trick themselves into a false sense of security of actually "knowing" something. fortunately they do not trick anyone but themselves
maddorox 2 years ago
was there any point in saying that? all this does is start arguments... liking a pianist isnt universal... so please...just say horowitz is good, dont compare it with aanother pianist that also has an unique style of interpretation... after all music is music ...
maddorox 2 years ago 5
Esta presentación es sencillamente fantástica...
Ray0X0 2 years ago
claudio arrau , ray gracias por tu pagina
Sebamb970 2 years ago
Every one is smart in youtube huh?
puchalaka 2 years ago 5
heck yeah! :P
Irelandlass7789 2 years ago
Something else concerning Arrau.
For me , his best recordng was the complete Beethoven concerti with Bernhart haitnik and the Amsterdam Contcergewau. It was really amazing. The onñly i dind´t like, was the cadenza he usase in the 1st movement of IV concerto ( G mayor) . I prefers the shortest one.
Well , taste is taste.,
Lokopiano.
lokopiano 2 years ago
真想叫他爷爷
bburago9 2 years ago
Sono commosso...
prodesica 2 years ago
Only Arrau truly understood the meaning of this piece. Under lesser hands, this 'epic' piece becomes trite and banal. But under Arrau, it becomes a true listening experience, as Liszt wanted it - heavenly, stormy, passionate, tragic, and triumphant
torontochopin 2 years ago 4
Pure subjetivity.
Bad opinion.
lokopiano
lokopiano 2 years ago
Of course, it's subjective because it's an opinion. But it's an opinion based on knowing this piece very well - I'm a classical pianist, just like Arrau, and I have played this piece in concerts many times. What's your point?
torontochopin 2 years ago
Well i really don´t play this piece in public never. I studied , but i never like it too much. As you said, is banal for essence. doesn´t matter if is played by GOD. That`s the reason of my coment, if you have pianists like Czifra, Sandor, Berman, Hamelin, etc, who technicaly are superior to Arrau ,,so your coment is not apropriate for my point of view. That´s my point.
Lokopiano.
lokopiano 2 years ago
You know, it's okay if you don't like Arrau and his playing. Other people don't like him either, and that's fine. However, I disagree that the pianists you mentioned ( I'm familiar with all of them and their level of playing) are technically superior to Arrau. Arrau's art is different from them. As well, if you haven't really understood this piece, and have not played it in public, then you don't really know it. Commenting on something you don't really know is not cool - it makes you look bad.
torontochopin 2 years ago
You are wrong: I liked Arrau playing, and consider him among great musicians ( more than a great pianist) . Why? because his technical aproach, despite The Joseph Horowitz book about him, etc, was extremely emphiric. Anyway , it works fine with him.The prove?: He never had a great pupil. The understanding of a piece has nothing to do if you play in public or not. In my case is becuase i consider it : Cheap music. It can look me bad , but you coment makes you look as an asshole.
lokopiano
lokopiano 2 years ago
Arrau never had a great pupil? The famous American pianist, Garrick Ohlsson, was a pupil of Arrau, and proudly considers himself an Arrau product. One of the most respected and celebrated piano professors in the US, James Tocco, was also a pupil of Arrau. And yes, to truly understand a piece of music, one has to perform it, as the performance adds a different dimension to the understanding of the piece, different from just learning it. Studying it is very good, but not enough to truly know it.
torontochopin 2 years ago
Garrick Olson is not a great pianist. Maybe for you, Second : He is "American"? yes , but form US remember "America" is not a country but a continent with 3 sub-continents. North, Central, and South....
James Tocco....Bahhhh............
And concerning Olson , he coul considered himself a product of Arrau, but is not true, he had have other teachers.
Arrau NEVER had a real pupil in the real sense of the word.
To your information toronto...... the most siificative
Continnue
lokopiano 2 years ago
most significative Arrau pupil was Rafael Silva who founded an Academy in NY and teached many years under the Arrau guidance. Arrau came to US every end of the year and gave masterclasses to those pupils from Dic 15 to Dic 29 , and thta was all. Was another pupil of Arrau, who begun a great career but died prematurily due to a cancer. His name was Gregorio Caro. Grete Sultan was a famous teacher , i don´t know why..And Tapia Caballero was a good pianist but not more than that.
continue,
lokopiano 2 years ago
Any way his school was a kind of a sterile one. Anyway as any genious, Arrau has had his own laws concerning piano playing ...Not applicable to common mortals.
And concernng this piece, is cheap.
I still cannot understand WHY Arrau speaks very bad about Rachmaninooff music, but at the same time he used to play many liszt music, but not the great neccesarily as the B mnor sonata, but the cheap one. Very strange.
lokopiano.
lokopiano 2 years ago
Garrick Ohlsson is hailed as a great pianist by critics and audiences WORLDWIDE. Further, you can find him in several books about great pianists. That's a fact and you cant' refute it. And yes, he's an American - from the United States of AMERICA! And it's true that he had other teachers(Gorodnitzki). But if you're a pianist, then you must know that pianists tend to have more than one teacher during their training. Garrick Ohlsson had Arrau as one of his teachers, making him an Arrau pupil.
torontochopin 2 years ago
Even Martha Argerich, who considers herself a Gulda pupil, studied with several people - Scaramuzza, Magaloff, Michelangeli, Askenasi, Curcio. As for Rafael Da Silva, he was a very important Arrau pupil, but didn't have the international reputation that we are talking about. He was more well-known among Arrau's disciples. And about James Tocco, do you even know him? Students from all over the world study with him at the Manhattan school and Cincinnati Conservatory. He's that well-known.
torontochopin 2 years ago
It's too bad that you don't like this music because it's good music.The problem is the way many pianists play it - superficial and without a full understanding of the drama that needs to be discovered in the music. And when it's played superficially, audiences have a hard time liking it.
torontochopin 2 years ago
Arrau didn't say Rachmaninoff's music is very bad. He described Rachmaninoff's music as 'movie music', which in some ways is true because of his beautiful melodies. But they are not as deep as Beethoven's music. That's what he meant.
torontochopin 2 years ago
From an interview, an entire book in form of an interview actually, I can say that Arrau was really arrogant.
Just hearing how he described his playing (he said that if you needed to warm up before a recital, your technique was not right and you were a fool...).
He also had no qualms about critisising great composers in a fairly haughty way.
Compared to Horowitz, he was a much arrogant person, but i doubt he could allow himself to do that when even Horowitz'd kept simple and down-to-earth :)
funfor1life 2 years ago
True. Horowitz . At least as a pianists was superior than Arrau. Arrau was apprentñy very humble, but not true. And i have prove than him diond´t know how a piano action is. ( As many assholes famous pienists) . HE was terribly emphiric, but at the same time he was a musical genious. So he was a great pianist. But if you compàre the pianims of Rubienstein, Micehleangelli, etc. they were far better as pianists than him.
lokopiano 2 years ago
Of course . I know it. but in a very despreciative way. Anyway, he recorded an outstnading version of RAK II as a soundtrack of the famous old movie with Vittorio Gassman and Liz Taylor "Rapshody" . So funny Rachmaninoff not as deep as Beethoven ( i agree 100%) ..BUT despite it , he plays this cheap Ballade No2 .......ODn´t you think it is a big contradiction? .
Lokopiano
lokopiano 2 years ago
Martha Argerich is a SUPERIOR pianist in the complete sense of the word. The teacher she aciated much more than others was Goulda ( great pianist too) . Michelangelli was to bad with her. He send her to be a good housewife, instead to be a pianist. Well Michelangelli a divine pianist anf genious was a littel crazy personality too. James Tocco...BAH¡¡... i don´t care if 500,000 people want to study wityh him. He has nothing to do in this coment. Arrau was an sterile school.
lokopiano
lokopiano 2 years ago
Lokopiano, why you say "I don't care if 500000 people want to study with him", but later you say "Arrau was a sterile school"?... Didn't you say before this kind of information is not relevant for you?
When you say Martha Argerich is superior (in big letters) than C. Arrau?... what is exactly you mean, what is this supposed superiority? also, how can Argerich be superior to Arrau if he was considered by many specialists the biggest interpreter of Beethoven's work in XX century?
Ray0X0 2 years ago
Of course. Let me give you an example.
Now morebthan 200000000people maybe, :-) want tyo study with Lang Lang ...and you know what kind of "artist" LOL he is.
Arrau´s school was completely sterile. JUst give ONE name who trascend in the musical world of pianists. I know all those names, and n one was nothing even close to great pianist.
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lokopiano 2 years ago
The best one was probably Gregorio Caro who died in the late fifties.
The Arrau point of view of technique you can take a look spcially in the Joseph Horowitz book where are some interesting "·Tricks" concerning some aproach concerning fingering but at the same time, technical ideas completey wrong and irrational.
The young Arrau ( if you watch his old videos) play with a lot of movements in order to have "Relaxation" ...:-) False. He just did it and he was succesfull becuase he was
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lokopiano 2 years ago
a real genious. But genious has it own laws nty common to any normal mortal. Real great technique ( As Martha Argerich , as Michelangelli, etc. ) is made first of all with a knowledge of human anatomy + psico motricity , and a lot of real intelligence.
I know due to the people of my context , Once Arrau got a question from the piano tuner who was tuning his piano for the evening recital ( to be exactly in Lima Peru ) in thje year 1959 , concerning if he want
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lokopiano 2 years ago
some improvement in the hammers to have a little sharp sound instead of the opac that Stenway had. He answer: just do what you want to do, becuase i know the piano until the keyboard, what is under the lid.......i just don´t know nothing about. Amazing¡¡¡¡¡¡That maybe was not too bad as an attitude, becuase pianists of his generatione mostly were thinking in a world plenty of litrature, and poetry, and the idea of any rationallity was ugly for them. On of them was Arrau. So How
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lokopiano 2 years ago
a pianist like this can "Make " a pianist since the very , or medium begginig of his studies? A different story is if he had a pupil like Garrick Olshon who arrived to him when he already is a piánist ¡¡¡¡ Thats a different story.
The old Arrau improved his technique a lot . Less silly movements when he play, etc. because at old age things are not so easy as when you are young. Many people around him have a theory : he copy many things of Rubinstein ( a phenomenal master pianist)
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lokopiano 2 years ago
ho had a perfect technique too. And despite Arrau always feel a kind of natural adversion to him due to his personallity, but the rallity is the reallity. Is yopu obsreve in tha last years Arrau plays with a lower bench, Few movements, and most times his arms hang on the keyboard instead of pushing it ( as in the the young years).
And other funny thing of his personallity. He despiced most rachmaninoff works, but he doesn´t hesitate toplay sometimes cheap Liszt repetoire like this Ballade
lokopiano 2 years ago
which is really among Liszt works one of the cehapest ones. I love some Liszt music, but "Some", not all. Welk tah´s have to do whit taste ( a diferent story) .
Form the technical side many pianists were superior to him . Argerich, Gulda, Michelangelli, Pollini, Rubinstein, Horowitz, Berman, etc.
Anyway he was a great artist and a great musical inspiration to many artists. AND completely honest with his way of make music.
lokopiano
lokopiano 2 years ago
What's technical superiority for you? First, it seems to me that you have a rather narrow definition of technique that looks at a "correct" way of using ones fingers and arms and body. But as you said: It worked fine with him, which makes sense because there are important physical differences between different persons. Second, shouldnt we judge technique rather on the outcome of an artists efforts? And isnt Arraus sonority, his capability to play an unmatched Beethoven, a poetic Chopin,
SamuelFeinberg 2 years ago 2
a powerful, colorful Liszt, an highly idiomatic Brahms proof enough of great technical skills? Third, I am surprised that you claim that Arrau improved his technique a lot when he was older. Well, I can't hear the slightest technical problems in the recordings Arrau made in the 20ies and 30ies. On the contrary, they show an explosive pianist with fire and utmost control.
SamuelFeinberg 2 years ago 4
a Little dificult to explain. Let me put it in this way : Arrau a a genious As a young man , make things easier due to his early age. When you get old eveerytthing ys a little harder than before, SO Arrau as an old man need finally to think mor about conerning his technique: A an old pianist y0ou can observe , his ppiano bench was lower than before, He played when the fingers much closer to the keyboard. He avoid superficial moevments like in his early years, etc. etc.
lokopiano.
lokopiano 2 years ago
My friend , that´s is a long thing to explain via internet. BUT if you are a Samuil Feimberg fan and if you have the oportunity to find some old film of his playing; HE have had a perfect technique.
I knew two of his pupils and i know all his tecnical principles.especially the use of hangin on the keyboard, instead of pushing it,AND the clear idea about the ridicoulous aplication of "Weight Body" on the keyboard:a thing which physycally is impossible. The body weight is on the piano bench.
lokopiano 2 years ago
Wow - if you know a source where one could find a film showing Feinberg playing, you could make a lot of people happy, not only me...
SamuelFeinberg 2 years ago
Un fortunately i don´t know too where to find them , (if them exist) , my old friends ( around 70 years old each one) told me all about his technical principles concerniong palying piano.
What i most love form tha great master Samuil Feimberg are his Scriabin Sonatas, and the mazurkas are out of this world. His Mozart was magic.
lokopiano.
lokopiano 2 years ago
HO..HO.. you torontochopin, should be called TONTOCHOPIN ..look in a Spanish Dictionary........I don´t care about critics, reviewers. I ma on the field. I am a professional pianist with a career. So don´t teach who is who.
Concerning United Sates of America, is not the same to say " My country is AMERICA" are you trying to be an assholke, or you really are one?
So becuase China ins the biggest country in popuplation in the world, and the biggest in Asia
TO continue
lokopiano 2 years ago
Tomorrow they woul like to call themselves "ASIANS" ? and what about Korea, Japan, etc. ? what are they .MARTIANS?. Your stuoid answer is just a product of the inmense ignorance of the media avergae "AMERICAN" LOL.
Is nor AMERICA idiot is US or USA or anything you want to call it, but to say i am AMERICAN is a n extreme ignorance and ARROGANCE, what about Canadians? Mexicans? Panameninas, Argentinias? Peruvians? Chileans? Venazuelnas? and so on?. ANd if you agrre with the term 2American"
lokopiano 2 years ago
"American" ,,,so tomorrow A Canadian can answer to a question "Where are you form? = I am American.
The same question to an Colombian? = I am Amreican, What is your country? = America (Colombia) , Did you understand asshole?.
Your argument as ARRAU pupil is not bad, but is not a real consistent and formed by him. Juts Olsosn get extremeñly impressed with the apparently modesty of Arrau, as many of his asskissers.
lokopiano
lokopiano 2 years ago
lokopiano: I've been respectful of you during this argument. I've never called you names, but you have called me an asshole, tonto, stupid, etc. That's not nice. You seem to have a lot of anger. If you're angry, there are better ways to express anger, in a healthy way, so that it doesn`t hurt you. Do you really have to be that angry to make your point? It`s not really necessary and it's bad for your health. If you`re really a professional pianist, then argue professionally. Be respectful.
torontochopin 2 years ago
Uhm you are right...i will no make more bad language against you.The probelm in these last three days we ( we are 4 pianists) were dealing with many
assholes. :-) and sometimes due to a too much coments sometimes we forget if we were making a"war" against you or against others.I realize(i am one of the 4) yoou were not the bad one..Sounds crazy, but we are writing coments 24 hours a day(we live in differnte countries)Anyway in few days no more coments because we have to prepare new repertoire
lokopiano 2 years ago
Thank you, lokopiano, for your comment. See, it's not that difficult to be respectful. You're actually capable of being one. You don't have to use bad language when you argue - it's not the best way to argue, and you end up being attacked by other people. Just be very clear with your ideas and try to avoid using bad words. Good luck to you!
torontochopin 2 years ago
You´r welcome.
Well.. that of the bad language is a kind of inertia form the Lang Lang links...........and some of that language is just to protect our profiles some times.
lokopiano.
lokopiano 2 years ago
Las obras musicales no son para que las juzguen los intérpretes, sino para que las disfruten quienes las oyen. Son creadas para satisfacer el mundo subjetivo del corazón, los sentimientos y los gustos sumamente subjetivos de quienes las disfrutan y de quienes las crean.
El intérpretre no es más que un vehículo que debe establecer ese vínculo subjetivo entre ambos puntos. Un intérprete que entienda sólo la técnica es un mal intérprete.
Ray0X0 2 years ago
En ningún momento he dicho que la técnica en forma aislada , sea lo que determine al gran artista o no. Lo que quiero decir es que es una parte importantísima.
La música es el fin. La técnica en el 90% de los casos es el medio que conduce hacia el fin. EN el caso de arrau con una técnica irracional, llegó a hacer maravillas.
Como todo genio , acomoda las cosas a su propia naturaleza de genio y sigue sus proppias leyes no comunes para los simples mortales.
lokopiano
lokopiano 2 years ago
ahh i love this piece :)
rennabell 2 years ago
真想叫他爷爷
toby8813 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
amazing! just amazing!
ogolocis 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
matate concchatumare
pedroyconejo 3 years ago
que orgullo que alguien asi fuese chileno
..y que halla dicho que el reconocimiento mas importante es el de su pueblo,su familia.
devilhoodflip 3 years ago
The best performer arround the world.
liebestraumer 3 years ago 5
With the true touch of a gentleman!
Young virtuosos should educate themselves - all it takes is listening!
cenodus 3 years ago 4
This is just wonderful! After hearing so many of the young "hot-shots" playing Mazeppa, Feux Follets, the Mephisto Waltz with all their breathtaking power, technical prowess and brillance, it's marvellous to hear somebody really play LISZT - Liszt the great and profound composer who was on an equal level with Chopin, Brahms and Schumann. All these otherwise fantastic piano virtuosos of nowadays should listen and take an example on performances such as these of Liszt's oeuvre!!!!!!!!
48montblanc07 3 years ago 38
I am in perfect agreement with you. His set of the transcendentals, recorded when he was about 80 or so are the best. I loved the set before I heard Arrau but I didn't truly understand their greatness until I heard him in that recording.
aardvaark069 3 years ago 3
Seconded, the Etudes are one of the best recordings of piano music out there.
toneeeeeee 3 years ago
@48montblanc07
oeuvre!!!!!!!! Fucking mental youtube idiot.
1Thompsonmusic 1 year ago
so so beautiful! I can feel the passion. I want to play like this someday.
Sonata23uu 3 years ago 7
simply astounding.
ljjthegreat 4 years ago 9
Such a young, strong man at 80!
fdartmouth 4 years ago 21
no one plays like Don Claudio!!!!!
lehalbfrancais 4 years ago 64
yes, everything sounds different when he plays it, and it's true, I heard this ballade played by Horowitz and by Leslie Howard and I really didn't like very much the work, but since I heard this playing a few months ago I started to love this piece, this is the twice I see this video and I really felt the music with this playing
nazhiitoxx 3 years ago 3
@lehalbfrancais except volodos. . . but nobody is quite as good as volodos
ftballfrk 1 year ago
@ftballfrk Hamelin is
afertyus1000 11 months ago
@afertyus1000 Volodos > insert
ftballfrk 11 months ago
@ftballfrk I love volodos but there are many as good if not better unheard of
afertyus1000 11 months ago
Magnificent.
zhangensprachen 5 years ago 13
Powerful and Dramatic!
pianoik 5 years ago 12
Such gorgeous Liszt under the 80-year-old fingers of Arrau!
Praxsedius 5 years ago 16