Guns for Jesus

[truejustice1]

The Jews killed and protected thier land with the sword all the way till they got kick outta thier land by God..

They built each bullet ONE BY ONE by themselfs in 1948 underground in a laundry room patrolled by german soilders to take there land back!

We JUST SHOCK AND AWWED ALL OVER SADDAM AND HIS FOLLOWERS

and we are killing this very min while you sit your fat but at your comp...

You dont murder for your pride your only kill to survive, brothers and sisters..

[vonwolly2]

well I'm a southerner from Mississippi. I am pro-gun pro-second amendment. But I'm also extremely liberal. pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro union, pro-stem cell research. Don't really like the religious right. Not religious. The reason that they got rid of most of the guns in Great Britain. It is because the rich were scared the Communists were going to take over. after World War I. From what I understand.

[ConservativeAtheist]

Ok so I am very curious as to why you seem to be so focused on the Christians and in particularly the American Christians I think this may betray some bigotries on your part.

I mean is it not the Muslims that would put you to death for who you are?

Of course alot of the parts of the Bible that people object to are in the Old Testament~AKA~The Torah yet people like you seem to address those passages virtually exclusively with the Christians but wouldn't that be more on the Jews?

[ConservativeAtheist]

The idea that all intruders are simply there for property is asinine as is the statement that nothing good comes from a hand gun. There is a trial in the news currently where two men broke into a house and tortured the family including raping the mother and the children and then burning them to death tied to their beds. The husband was left bound in the basement and escaped but perhaps if he had been a gun owner this might not have occurred and in fact there are countless such stories.

[ConservativeAtheist]

@ConservativeAtheist: Continued:

There are also countless stories of people saving themselves and others with the use of a gun. This is especially true with women who are at a severe physical disadvantage and as a result are more oftenly targeted for violent crimes both sexual and otherwise but with a gun they are more than capable of defending themselves. You say you would use a weapon in self defense but nothing beats a gun and if the intruder had a gun you would lose.

[kyokogodai]

Luke 22:49-51 "When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him." If Jesus was against weapons, why would He have allowed his apostles to carry them? It was because He knew they would need them for self-defense! Sword? Gun? No difference.

[M0THERKN0WSBEST]

On Stickham last night JF talked with enthusiasm about his upcoming tool ... er, I mean gun collection.

He wants to own one of each caliber, ( 38, 357, 44, 45 etc, ) a semi automatic rifle ... hmmn, not sure if he mentioned a shotgun!

What I found amusing was his passionate reference to the founding fathers & his right to bear arms ... including ( get this! ) an R.P.G.

Providing of course, they first went to the local rocket propelled grenade range, and learnt how to use it.

I kid you not!

[thatgaybloke]

I think that trying to reason with him is a bit like trying to explain quantum mechanics to a shoe.

[Mossy500A]

Turning the other cheek only applies to insults, not bodily harm.

[thatgaybloke]

Nice try at dodging that one - but that's not what it says in the scripture.

Matthew 5:39 "But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Striking someone is physical, not verbal, assault.

Next?

[Mossy500A]

Hitting someone on the right cheek during that time was meant to insult them. Spitting was the same way.

To offer your left cheek was putting that person on the same status level of the other. Hitting someone on the left cheek with a fist meant that they were equals, something the insulter did not believe.

[thatgaybloke]

Isn't it convenient how selective re-interpretation through historical "context" or whatever can make this nasty little collection of poorly thought out fairy tales mean whatever you want?

You can justify divorce, slavery, homophobia whatever you like and ignore the bits you don't like because they have to be taken in historical context.

The text in Matthew 5:39 is clear. Don't try and put your words in its place.

[Mossy500A]

I'm not. I am just using what historic knowledge I have on the subject. These text are worth studying to make sure they are not being bastardized.

I am not justifying any of those things. I hope you can get over whatever you don't like about Christianity.

[stargateproductions]

Firearms are designed with one purpose in mind, to kill. I believe it's insane to let anyone have a firearm, unless its used for sport, such as hunting.

[OneEyedJack1970]

We'll see.

[thatgaybloke]

I have to ask you this - have you actually read the New Testament?

[OneEyedJack1970]

I've read that He's coming back. And I believe it. Whether you do or not is up to you.

[OneEyedJack1970]

Jesus wasn't very passive when He cleared out the Temple. And He won't be very passive when He comes back.

[thatgaybloke]

Tough new, Jack. He ain't coming back.

[Tridhos]

I like the answer given by some guy who refused to fight during the 2nd World War because he was a pacifist. Asked what he would do if he saw some German Paratrooper raping his grandmother he replied, "I would wait until he had finished and then I would bury the dear old lady again". Good video as ever nice to see the cherry pickers are still about.

[MorphicStates]

Smashing babies' heads and shooting your little girls? Sounds like an emotional Christian argument.

Yes handguns are tools, just not for building houses. None should have illusions of that.

Do you really think you have to "carry a gun at all times" for home protection? In most situations you have ample time to cross your home from one side to the other to obtain your weapon.

I agree with you on your main point about Christians, but you should have picked better handgun arguments.

[MorphicStates]

I actually have two strikes against me here though. I'm from the US and from Texas. Go figure I'm pro-gun.

[ratholin]

Well jesus preached pacifism but there is the bit where he got pissed off at the money lenders and started whipping them. I think it goes back to don't fight back if someone strikes you but you're allowed to hurt people that aren't doing anything violent.

[Onodera1980]

Good points. I hate when I hear gun nuts saying it's a defensive weapon... What are you going to do? Shoot the bullets coming at you? It is an offensive weapon plain and simple. If you have your gun, and a man with a pipe wants to mug you. He will still mug you. Unless you walk around with your gun drawn like a total nutter, you're going to get brained.

[laraesque]

"Unless you walk around with your gun drawn like a total nutter, you're going to get brained." Nah, they are all like Clint Eastwood, and are going to do a quick draw and always be faster than the bad guy, because they have Jesus on their side.

[BananaHurricane]

I've pointed out Jesus' pacifism before, and one guy actually responded to me like this, "We'll see how much of a pacifist he is when he returns to destroy sinners like you".

Sigh.

[thatgaybloke]

It makes you wonder if their Bible is the same one the rest of us get to read.

[pfarabee]

I own a handgun, and carry it with me whenever I go out. If I am in a restauraunt and some maniac comes in and starts shooting people, I will use my weapon to defend myself and others.

If someone breaks into my home, I will retreat to the safest place I can (bedroom), call the police, and shout my intentions at the intruder. If they breach the door, they will be shot.

That being said, I hope that I never have to unholster it for any reason other than target practice.

[stargateproductions]

@pfarabee

Your living in fear then, guns are violent, they cause pain and death. They shouldn't have been invented.

[pfarabee]

No, I'm living in something called the real world, where the same problem exists that you mention.

Here's a reality check for you: Police don't have magic powers. They can't just "sense" a crime about to happen, click their heels and teleport to your rescue. When and if you are attacked, you will have three choices:

1) Run / hide. May or may not work.

2) Defend yourself. This is my choice.

3) Die. Would rather not.

The truth is ugly, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at it.

[stargateproductions]

@pfarabee

I agree the world is messed but adding more guns to the situation doesn't solve anything.

[MoreSciFiThanScience]

Moses ran the NRA

[Archaenum]

Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable in which three attitudinal and behavioral clusters correlate: Authoritarian submission, Authoritarian, Conventionalism.

RWAs tend to exhibit cognitive errors and symptoms of faulty reasoning — incorrect inferences from evidence; holding contradictory, compartmentalized; uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their beliefs; less likely to acknowledge their own limitations.

[Archaenum]

2 In role-playing situations, authoritarians tend to seek dominance over others by being competitive and destructive instead of cooperative. In a study by Altemeyer, high and low authoritarians played a three hour simulation of the earth's future. The low RWA group generated world peace and widespread international cooperation. Authoritarians became highly militarized and eventually entered the stage of nuclear war.

Sound familiar?

[Archaenum]

Ooops: Authoritarian submission, Authoritarian *aggression*, Conventionalism.

3 Authoritarians generally favor punishment and control, rather than personal freedom and diversity. They are more likely to advocate strict, punitive sentences for criminals. They tend to be ethnocentric and prejudiced against racial and ethnic minorities, and homosexuals.

In essence, Altemeyer's research sums up the cognitive / personality disorders of some YT fundies.

[ChurchOfKali66619]

"If a man smiteth thee upon one cheek, rippeth his belly open, draggeth him by his innards and wrappeth him about an tree: He'll never smiteth thee ever again, I GAY-ron-tee-eth!"

That's a PAGAN'S definition of compassion.

[thatgaybloke]

LOL - if you retaliate make sure they don't get up again.

[thefakeyeti]

Being a pacifist is a two way street..

Ie. I will try not to use my physical size to gain advantage over other people. Provided that they live by the same code. Once they try to use physical force, all bets are off.

And even than, I have been in physical confrontation where someone hit my head several times. And my initial reaction was to quickly walk out of the locker (Yes, he labeled be a coward, but whatever)

[Danmill23]

Guns hmmmm ...

Small hand made whips ... yes!

Shhhhk-KA! Cop that cheeky!

[thefakeyeti]

How many people die from a stray arrow vs. a stray bullet?

THOUGH I can't help (even if it is wrong) think that generally a rifle would be less likely to prolong the pain of the deer...

I also cannot help but think that a hunter using a rifle is more likely to accidently kill someone..

I would have to see actual statistics on it though, this is only speculation on my part..

[thatgaybloke]

Isn't the rifle more likely to produce a quick kill than a bow? I know that bows can be pretty effective, just wondering how they compare.

[thatgaybloke]

That is the difference I see between a hunting rifle and a hand gun.

I would argue that TNT used to mine ore is a tool. A bomb is destructive, only.

[happysplodie]

I wouldn't argue that a gun it's just to kill. Why not include sport shooting, recreation, or symbolism as a legitimate purpose also?

If a hammer is used to kill someone, it is a weapon at that time.

I do not like pacifism. I avoid conflict if possible, but it isn't always.

I but detest mandatory biblical love. 'love thy enemy' & 'turn the other cheek'

My gun ownership is one of my least logical beliefs, but while supporting gun ownership, I am not comfortable with certain gun owners.

[Orsbore]

Matthew 5:39 doesn't just say turn the other cheek, before that it says do not resist evildoers.

[WizardJim]

Actually, isn't there a bible passage where Jesus commands his followers to sell their belongings and buy a sword? I think I remember that from somewhere, so it might not be quite so cut and dry a matter. For christians, that is. I, personally, wouldn't touch one of those murder-implements if you paid me.

[thefakeyeti]

Theologians can split hairs on just about ANY passage..

I am sure there are some pacifist christians out there that would claim that the sword is a "spiritual" thing... And not LITERALLY a physical sword..

[M0THERKN0WSBEST]

Nice summation there David, ... JF's gun video irritated me big time, to where I made some knee jerk reactionary comments that I now somewhat regret.

It's just when in the comment section I came across him talking about his next gun being a 357 Magnum or a 44 ( I think it was ) that his whole 'tool', self justification & silly scenarios really pushed my 'let the nukes fly' button, and some.

I am just glad that there are others out there to provide a more intellectual, constructive critique.

[tattooskin72]

I think it's odd that a lot of people outside the US think that every citizen in the US has a gun. I've never even touched a gun before.

but on topic... your video was great and right to the point :)

[Gimmeabreakman]

Jezuzfreek777 is borderline well spoken. This fools a lot of people into thinking he is worth talking to. Just ignore him and eventually people will see him for what he is.

[TheNakedAtheist]

Exactly Gimmeabreakman. JF777 is just as much a fool as the worst of the fundamentalists on youtube. He just hides it a bit better.

[TheMysteriousCorner]

Just a heads up, those with concealed carry licenses can and do in fact carry a gun with them all the time, including outside. But carrying in such a manner does require responsibility. If I had a CCL, I would as well.

Now, we've all got our reasons for doing so, but when it comes down to "for Jeebus" and the attitudes that people tend to have in that light, it becomes frightening to think about. Being pro-gun is one thing, being overly religious while pro-gun is questionable, but a freedom..

[thatgaybloke]

What about the freedom not to be killed by some no-brain who can barely tie their own shoe laces but is allowed to own a lethal weapon?

We have gun crime here in the UK, where private ownership of hand guns are illegal, but nothing like the scale you see in the US.

Add that to the casual portrayal of gun usage in the US media and it's hardly surprising so many people get killed and maimed each year.

[TheMysteriousCorner]

If someone's going to ignore the law with ill intent, legal or not they'll own it and use it for crime. Personally I'd rather have a fighting chance than none at all if that were to happen. I won't deny that people are pretty damn stupid and/or lax when it comes to handling guns, but my experience has been smooth sailing and I know a lot of people that own a lot of guns.

Gun safety isn't difficult. The fact that it IS a tool and the users being too ignorant to operate it is not my problem.

[TheNakedAtheist]

"The fact that it IS a tool and the users being too ignorant to operate it is not my problem."

Until your idiot neighbor who can't tie his shoelaces leaves a gun unsecured, and his kid accidentally kills yours. I guarantee every gun toting, gun right supporting parent who's had it happen to them said the same thing. That other people's ignorance wasn't their problem.

[TheMysteriousCorner]

This goes right back to gun safety, and I did say that people are stupid and lax about such things. Gun safety isn't difficult and children can be taught it too. (up to and including noting someone else's unsafe behaviour) It IS unfortunate that people are idiots about it though.

Do you have an alternative? I would love to hear it. If not, I will carry and keep my guns for my own safety, to protect myself because I know neither you nor anyone else will.

[TheNakedAtheist]

@TheMysteriousCorner

I'm 50 years old, and neither I, my parents, nor my children have EVER owned, nor needed a gun for protection. The statistics show that you are MUCH more likely to accidentally shoot yourself, shoot someone else, or have your gun stolen than EVER needing it for protection. If you feel you need one your 'feeling" is irrational, and not based on the documented evidence. This fact adds to the problem, most people who own guns for "protection" are paranoid.

[TheMysteriousCorner]

Then you're quite lucky. As a transsexual who has experienced quite a bit of unwanted intrusion into my life, yes I do feel the need for it. You may call it paranoia, I call it protection.

Its unfortunate that a lot of those that do have these accidents are making a bad case for those of us that are responsible. You may quote statistics all you like, but staying in the dark and remaining ignorant of a guns use/safety is very unbecoming of a freethinker. I equate it to an abstinence only program.

[TheNakedAtheist]

@TheMysteriousCorner

I'm hardly ignorant of guns. I recently retired from the military, and as I said I've never had the need for one other than in the line of duty. I'm not for a complete ban, and I think in your situation a legitimate case could be made that you need one, BUT a NEED for one should be shown. Handing out guns like they are candy are a recipe for disaster. Licenses for cars at least require training there is no such requirement in most states in this country for gun training.

[TheMysteriousCorner]

Nooow we're close to getting on the same page.

[TheEnglishAthiest]

"Gun dont kill people, people kill people, and so do monkeys if you give them a gun" -( Eddie Izzard)

Your right hand guns only have one use. killing people

[Hereticbooks]

It is weird, isn't it gaybloke....that especially here in America, so many fundamentalist Christians are so incredibly "pro-gun." It's a weird, weird state of affairs.