Realistic Book of Mormon Evidences: The Horse

[plaidgoatage]

i feel dumber having watched 4 minutes of this "realistic book of mormon evidences" you even say there is no evidence of horses. Worthless

[IpsaPaphum]

'Horse' in the BoM is a mistranslation. It means chipmunk.

[sethbockholt]

TheRadiometric dating of the La Brea remains shows conclusively that this deposit ranges from 38,000 years ago to as recent as 10,000 years ago. The earliest remains being human from 8000 BC, 2000 years older than biblical Adam if you believe it. No horse remains have been discovered in Americas that date between 1492 and 12,000 years ago. The Pleistocene extinction of the American Equidae is unchallenged. Out of thousands of remains, not one has been BOM period, 600 BC to 421 AD.

[jcaseyccsu]

There's plenty of fiction more magnificent than horse bones

[MuzzleBlast357]

I know that silhouette anywhere! You're Daniel C. Peterson with a wig! You can't fool me. BTW, are you any relation to the Barnyard Professor?

[MALDITTOROKKERO]

"we just didnt have him yet!!"... "what do horse bones have to do with that?"LOLOLOL.. it's not just bones you bone head!! racist books, racist past, look at your mormon members! russell pearce!, meadows massacre, gold plates, magic undees, mormon "prophets" having a "revelation" from god saying stop poligamy when it's obvious that mormons just wanted to take over the state of utah, secret handshakes... i can keep going on and on about how ridiculous mormonis is

MORMONS = MASTERS OF EXCUSES

[EltonJThe]

I can't wait until we know what Curleloms and Cumoms are!

[humanistheart]

So, your argument for why the horse (and pressubably the numerous other animals that did not exist in america but are mentioned in the BoM) is because jesus is mentioned in your scripture many many times? What part of that was meant to be a strong argument? Do you make that claim for why there's no dna, no lingual, and no archeological evidence? You keep claiming there's 'plenty' of evidence fo the BoM, but your video's are just on justifying why there's not. Lol.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Do you deliberately try to act so ignorant, or does it come in your own DNA, and you just can't help it?

[humanistheart]

@TheBackyardProfessor Much like your video, your posts are devoid of facts. This is hardly surprising. You admitt there's no evidence, you go on to claim that jesus is mentioned a lot so in the grand scheame of things who cares if facts like the right animals are named, and conclude that even though no evidence has been found to support the mormon position, sooner or later it will. Oh but you're right, I'm the ignorant one between us.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Yeah, I write a whole lot of nothing that means anything, that's me all right.

[humanistheart]

@TheBackyardProfessor

As your complete inability to defend your possition reveals, yes, your statment here concerning yourself is quite apt.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

LOL! Yes, why yes, of course, whatever you say....

[humanistheart]

@TheBackyardProfessor

Another prime example.

[CadjinGisclair]

@humanistheart

My friend, I have a link for you, because it can explain the horse issue better than I can. I'll give you a quick answer, though:

Here in Louisiana, when my French ancestors settled the region, they saw many creatures they had never seen before. For these animals, there were no French names. When they came across the possum, they called it a rat-de-bois, literally a "tree rat".....

[humanistheart]

@humanistheart And of course the biggest irony, in a title you call Realistic Book of Mormon Evidence, your final conclusion is that you don't in fact have the evidence. You'll forgive me if I can't keep a smile off my face with that one.

[CadjinGisclair]

@humanistheart continued...

Now, you and I both know that possums are not rodents, but in fact marsupials. So why did the Cajuns call the possum a rat?? To them, it looked like a giant rat that lives in the tree, therefore they called it a "rat-de-bois." Likewise, when the people of the Book of Mormon arrived in the Americas, they named the "new" animals after similar looking animals in the old world.

[CadjinGisclair]

@humanistheart Cont...

...Goats, cattle, and horses could have very well existed in the Americas in the form of mountain goats, bison, llamas and tapirs. So, your argument is equally as weak as you claim TheBackyardProfessor's is.

[humanistheart]

@CadjinGisclair Hardly. First of all, what your describing is common, but not entirely apt here. For instance, the sea horse, doesnt look much like a horse, but we call that in general (besides its scientific name which has nothing to do with equine anything). Notice the difference though, SEA horse. Or SEA lion. Your own example includes TREE rat. Thanks to the additional word no one confuses this with their originally named counterparts

[humanistheart]

@CadjinGisclair (Cont)Also the only large animals that even come close to horses are creatures like the deer and buffalo. Two problems with this 1) different types of deer are found throughout the old world, and someone would have to be profoundly ignorant not to recognize a deer, regardless of the time or place one was raised, and buffalos a type of bison also found in the OW, its not a horse nor does it even resemble one

[humanistheart]

@CadjinGisclair (Cont)2) if Im not mistaken the BoM describes the horses being used for things like riding. If you know anything about deer or Buffalo you will not attempt to ride them. What on this continent could have been used in such a manor? Nothing that comes to mind. And this is just on horses, there are numerous other examples of animals mentioned in the BoM that didnt actually exist here pre-Columbus.

[CadjinGisclair]

@humanistheart

Actually, my friend, you're wrong. No where in the Book of Mormon does it talk about people riding horses. And besides, people ride animals other than horses even today. You've obviously never been to Peru. The bigger llamas are used for riding, not only hauling around cargo. In the early 1900s they were even used by some in playing polo. Further up north, some people ride elk. It's not a common occurrence, but the point is that people ride animals other than horses.

[humanistheart]

@CadjinGisclair It's unlikely that the animals in the area where the BoM was 'found' could be ridden, and you ignored the point that animals named after other animals always have a distinction. But additionally, Smith claimed god translated the BoM for him PERFECTLY. Do perfect translations include false names or no explanation of said names? No they translate them into the approrpriate word.

[CadjinGisclair]

@humanistheart

I also never said buffalo were used for riding. But it does mention cattle in the Book of Mormon, and this is where it may be referring to bison. And back to the horse, the BofM does not say that horses existed in abundance and they were usually included in the list of flocks. Once more, NO WHERE in the Book of Mormon does it mention that horses were ridden. I wish people would stop listening to their priests/professors and actually reed the book themselves.

[CadjinGisclair]

@humanistheart

It's funny we're arguing about this when the Bible contains more fantastical stories than the Book of Moron. A talking ass, a sea split in 2, the planet Earth covered with water for well over 40 days and 2 of all the animals in one big ark. Why aren't you off arguing about these things. Instead you insist on arguing about whether or not horses as we're familiar with today existed in the Americas from 3100 BC to the time Europeans settled the area....

[humanistheart]

@CadjinGisclair Look around, I demolish the bible in posts as well. In fact I think I do that far more than the BoM.

[CadjinGisclair]

@humanistheart

Well good, at least you're fair. haha =)

[omiolo]

Although Edward Kimball has lost his father, he maintains the same objective tone throughout the biography and allows the story to carry its own emotional weight. Appendix 1 provides many stories of those who had personal encounters with President Kimball. Appendix 2 provides a more concise chronology of Spencer W. Kimball's presidency.

[jinheneamerican]

If you had infallible proof, you wouldn't call it faith to believe in something- even the word believe carries the connotation. Even for a Christian, it should be a tenet of their religion that faith is what saves a man. So why are you looking for proof? Why not just go to the source? You can't talk to Joseph Smith, nor his followers, or his enemies, or those that left the church. So, how do you know? Again, why not go to the source? Infallible proof for anything is nonexistent anyway.

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

whats amazing si ..okay hundreds of thousands of peoepl in BOTH hebrw tribes and we cant find ANYTHINg with any hebrew symbols..or ANY ancient writings...coem ON man the guy probably made it up..?there is NO record of hebrew living in america...it's a straw man argument likedoes bigfoot.exist?

[fudley2003]

If the BoM is not a historical record then JS is a false prophet. That is why evidence of horses is not a trivial matter.

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

welll he Obviosuly made it up...i mena coem on you gonna go by ONE oook for a historical reference of teh last 2000 yaers of recorded history?

[redlandz1977]

Horses are one matter, you have NO solid (or even imaginable) evidence. If this is a video about "evidence" shouldn't you show "evidence"? You did the opposite, you said "such a trivial matter"... but it's your whole subject matter! How about the elephants that are mentioned? It's a hot topic on the same level as the earth being flat.

[KaliChalsengkida]

i've gotta love this person..very strong words.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

The "unicorn" is a mistranslation ya clown. No one is going to look for their fossils. On the other hand, another candidate for the "unicorn" is not the fairytale white horse, but actually a rhonoceros, or the narwhal. So make fun of things, but always, always, absolutely ALWAYS check your assumption. Unicorns are absolutely REAL. Not the fairytale white horse ones, no, but the real UNI (one, single) corn (horn), the rhino or narwhal.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Yer cornerin me. For crying out holy loud, yer cornerin me! Have you no shame?!

[canadianbacon007]

What did Patton supposably say about he and Montgomery being prima donnas? " I admit it. What I can't stand about Monty is, he won't admit it"

[TheBackyardProfessor]

But we don't KNOW that future Book of Mormon evidences, and what kinds they will be WILL show up. We hope they do. But we do't base our faith on them. If they NEVER sdhow up in our lifetimes that is irrelevant to the reality of their existence. The Dead Sea Scrolls didn't show up for how many umpteen hundreds if not thousands of years since the Essenes lived. But was that proof they didn't? Of course not. Einstein's relativity is new, but was that proof in 1492, it wasn't real and the truth?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Uh-oh....... dang it man, I overdid it didn't I..... I apologize for the indiscretion with which I have so stupidly allowed myself to display in lack of honor for these fine gentlemen, philosophers, statemen, poets, artists, etc. Can I ever be forgiven?

[canadianbacon007]

ACX, since you yourself seem to view yourself as at the very least a fair to moderate critic of Mormon affairs, I will ( presumptuously I admit) share youe critique of a fellow Mormon critic grnmessiah. This will forever dispel any suspicion that are in fact him. Re: grnmessiah

I watched a couple of his vids. I was not impressed. Some douche with a camera and no articulation.

[canadianbacon007]

I will only dignify that assertion by saying, you are clueless, The Prentenders are a great band. And for the record, pretending is what Tigger's do best.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

The fallacy of future evidence?! LOL! Oh this is rich. ALL we have is right now. Nothing new to ever be found again. The world is complete, finished, all research done, all archaeological discoveries have occurred. All historicial understanding complete, finished and perfect, and all are agreed with whatever interpretations are in print. You are *really* funny dude! Thanks for the laugh.

[AntiCitizenX]

You claim to have everything we need, and yet the world at large seems unimpressed. So either your evidence is uncompelling, or everyone besides you (and the Church) is an idiot. Which case do you honestly believe?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Oh so now we need the world's approval for truth to be found? Sure, sure, there is your objective infallible guide. Ask the world, they'll all agree and tell you one and the same answer. Yep, the world is the barometer of truth, the yardstick of reality.

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

so like..ONE boook written by ONE man as late as 1830 is ..just trumps the last 2000 years of recorded history?oh everyone who doesnt beleve the story happened is a CRITIC..?oh so if im not catholic or jewish a m i AUTOMATICALLY a critic of those faiths?lol..you folks just LOVE to throw that word around...

[AntiCitizenX]

I have no words for the raw pride you just expressed. You have basically just made the claim that everyone is an idiot except for you.

I'm trying to help you understand a point of humility. When droves of smart people are not compelled by your evidence, it means one of two things. Either they are just idiots, or there is a problem with your evidence. You seem to prefer the former, which is simply prideful, and is not a good way to win converts.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

It's not raw pride, it's pure logic. There is a third item. They are biased. Betchta didn't think of that did you? There's a fourth reason, they have a vested interest in NOT believing, it might cost them their livelihood, even though they know it's true. I *KNOW* some who are in that boat. See? You do either/or, and there is just a whole lot more to it than just your selection.

[AntiCitizenX]

"They are biased."

That would fall under the "they are idiots" category.

"vested interest in NOT believing"

This is just absurd. You would have us believe that a whole profession of scholars are plain pigheaded about the notion of iron-working/horses in America. Any man who could prove these things would be a scientific hero. The vested interest is proving that iron actually existed!

[TheBackyardProfessor]

John Sorenson's work, which I reviewed in multiple videos on Metal in Ancient America shows you your assumptions.

And yes he HAS published in peer review journals for crying out loud. Your mantra is way off base.

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

so uh...have you people found ANYTHINg left behind by overa million hebrews..?the spaniards couldnt have destroyed EVERYthing..get real...why no DESCENDANTS?so you ADMIT inyour video it may be a fabricated story..an allegory..?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Ah, so when we cannot satisfy your wishes, we turn into pretenders. Got it! Now I am enlightened as to your thinking. GRIN! I'm on lunch and making some drive by shootings real quick. I shal deal substantially later. For now, this is all just some fun. Course, it's ALL just fun for me, I rather enjoy learning.

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

okay man what I have a problem with is taht there is no record of any hebrew descendants in the americas when the settlers arrived..only indians..have you ever watche dteh discovery channel tehy have found THOUSANDS of thinsg from the bible in the midle east..if tjhsi happened at teh SAME time why wasnt it jsut INCLUDED with the bible books when the bible came out originally..?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Nope, I am just noting the obvious.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Hey Plato rocks! His best line was "To be or not to be, that is the philosophy." LOL! I know nothing of either, yet I read both. My what a pickle to be in. Lessee here, Hamlet, wasn't he Plato's star pupil? Oh no, that would have been Socrates. YEAH BABY! LOL! Sorry, just having some fun.

[canadianbacon007]

"But you also pretended to be familiar with Plato before" Sorry but pedantic posturing is your department.(credentials notwithstanding)

[canadianbacon007]

One need not be totally versed in Platonic platitudes, to know when it's being visited upon them. You on the other have a diffculty grasping the simple unmitigated fact, that much like your comments, your reputation preceeds, and follows you.

[canadianbacon007]

"precedes" Better correct my spelling, and or context, before the philosophy professor raps my knuckles.

[canadianbacon007]

periclesolon (all of sudden becomes)the condescending appeasement master. Does your M.O. ever change, or is this an uncontrollable Jekyll & Hyde situation? Let's go take peek at the revolting anti-mormon slurs in your videos, and see if we can't possibly see through this bombastic ploy to underhandedly insinuate the BYP is a product of inherited delusion. Are you that arrogant, or just a real S.O.B.

[canadianbacon007]

BTW, the BYP's comments, ironically, fit to a tee, all the rest of the arguments you proffered before, and after his misread, so what's the difference.

[canadianbacon007]

Give it a rest. The lady doth protest too much, methinks

[canadianbacon007]

"-the down-played misses like the Horse, Kinderhook Plates, and so forth, not down-played LDS hits." As usual you have you own version of the facts. I said minutia, period. You add " Horse, Kinderhook Plates, and so forth" for the added effect. You are so willing to accuse others of bias, but are completely oblivious to your own. What a piece of work you are, and not in the Shakespearean sense.

[canadianbacon007]

I won't add to to what BYP said, except to say you felt some need to answer for AntiCitizenX on my board, who BTW (I'm fairly sure is just grnmessiah in another guise)so I chimed in much the way you did. If you are going to do a fric and frac routine, you may as well know who you are dealing with.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

AntiCitzen is Green baby?!? NO WAY!!! If he is, he sure had me fooled! I hope he stays as AntiCitzen, he's decent as that persoa - GRIN!

[canadianbacon007]

He tries to disguise his voice on his videos, but he gives it away rather regularly, with his smug tone.

[AntiCitizenX]

This is why I like BYP. He's actually skeptical of outrageous claims.

Bacon, you can rest assured I am not this messiah dude. However, given your remarkable capacity for finding correlations where none exist, you have lent credence to my contention that you live in the grip of a terrible confirmation bias.

[canadianbacon007]

If you also had a better sense of the person mentioned, you would realize that it's not all that far fetched.(the all purpose confirmation bias clause notwithstanding)

[canadianbacon007]

The remarkable similarities in your voices, the same age, and the exaggerated tone in the voice of whoever narrated your videos, and the fact that you all of a sudden show up on my comment board, spouting the same jargon, two days after this individual made a rant video about me blocking him, yea the coincidences sorta started piling up. I however take you at your word, and obviously, that matter is closed.

[canadianbacon007]

You might want to go take a peek at this individuals (grnmessiah) last comment on an LDS related video. I'll PM it to you , so you get an idea of the rationale he employs. I can't repeat what was said here, out of deference the BYP. This person is a full time critic of all things Mormon, and I'd frankly like to hear what his excuse is, for the things he says and does.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

To each his own. I rather get a kick out of him calling me names when he can't refute what I write. Now, of course, HE will deny this, but oh well. It is interesting to see what swear words he comes up with, even though I won't leave them up here on this site. He has plenty of other places where he has blathered at me. He's a good kid. No hard feelings. Just a little misguided and rather pompous about it is all. I think he's entertaining personally, but then I am, after all, a nutjob. GRIN!

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Well, even if you are not he Messiah dude, I still think you have some good posts. I enjoy the bantering....... Nothing personal, I assure you.

[AntiCitizenX]

"I am, after all, a nutjob. GRIN!"

No argument here...

ZING! Cheap shot, I know, but you set yourself up. :)

[TheBackyardProfessor]

LOL! Good zinger matey!

[canadianbacon007]

Yarr!

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

okay BOM claims 2 tribes of hebrews..in america with ovear million people..stretching out over from 600 bc to 400 a.d..and no cities..?writings..?artifacts.­.?the coliseum in rome is real..know hwy..cuz i can go therea nd SEE IT and it has probably been carbon dated and tested that it IS that old and its in ROME..funny the spaniards didnt destroy THATT..

[TheBackyardProfessor]

I Love this too. "An occasional hit." LOLOLOL! This is just too precious! An occasional hit indeed! Dude, I have literally over 20,000 PAGES of these "occasional hits." That's 20,000, not a mere 2,000 pages, no typo here. Where in the luv of Sam Walton have you been this last decade of Book of Mormon research?! Maybe in your research all you have found is an occasional hit. but in the serious BofM scholarship there are massive BOOKS of correlations, confirmations, and fascinating teachings.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

That's like saying none of the drops of water which make up the ocean are viable. The problem is, even the minutia add up to the ocean. But you would deny that because it is made up of only minutia. Dude you crack me up man! No matter what we present, it will never be enough will it? Save us all time and just confess it already. It's so obvious, it's written all over your face (posts)...

[TheBackyardProfessor]

I Love it! "Properly spun before True Believers." Priceless! LOL! Yeah, non-believers, but of course, tell nuthin but the facts, objective, fecund, and demonstrable. Believers? Aw heck man, all we do is spin.......

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

so you base your whole american hsitory on ONE boook..the BOM..oh we havemnyt FOUND it yet so it COULD exist...hey what happened to the DINOSAURS..do ya think the spaniards destroyed them too?lol

[canadianbacon007]

Cognitive science also applies to flip side of that coin. Althougth, I should think, logic dictates that proving a previously otherwise thought to be impossible thing, trumps a few other burden of proof claims like so much minutia. Since we are horning in on other people's comments, I thought I could chime in with impunity as well.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Oh sure. I honestly try to understand all things about the book, as well as other things having to do with Mormonism, as I can.

[AntiCitizenX]

"The horse is utter trivia."

You're basically arguing that, "Except for those parts where the book isn't true, it is still true."

You can't call it "the inspired word of God" if there are errors. If the horses are wrong, then everything is suspect and must be externally validated. But then how does one tell what's correct and what Smith botched in the translation? And don't say "the Spirit" unless you can honestly differentiate that from cognitive bias.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

You assume the Spirit is equal to cognitive bias, yet you have no evidence this is so. Yes I certainly can say it has errors, yet is inspired. They are not God's errors, but man's. God works with fallible humans. The horse is trivial compared to what the Gospel is abot. I sdaid nothing about it being false, it's just not crucial to the Gospel message. Surely one can see that, can't one?! A yoyo is quite trivial compared to being saved. Why focus on yoyos? Seethe point.

[AntiCitizenX]

"yet you have no evidence this is so."

Good point. I refer you to "Social Psychology" (6th Edition) by Elliot Aronson, 2006. Everything you need to know about human cognitive bias is there. And yes, it is peer-reviewed.

When a man says the BOM is the most "correct book of any other," the yo-yo becomes very important. You can't expect a man to gamble his eternal salvation on a document that is riddled with errors, without at least giving him a hard metric for what's real and what's not.

[canadianbacon007]

"You can't expect a man to gamble his eternal salvation on a document that is riddled with errors," Isaiah 29:14 "Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their "prudent" men shall be hid. As my poker buddies are apt to say, "read em and weep".

[TheBackyardProfessor]

When we present that metric, you simply don't accept it though. John Welch's spanking brand new book (and yes it actually IS peer-reviewed by both Mormons and non-Mormons) "The Legal Cases in the Book of Mormon" is pure gold.

[AntiCitizenX]

"Pure gold?"

I've never heard of this book. How is this book relevant?

And when I say he Spirit is not good enough, I really do mean it. This is not out of arrogance, but out of humble acceptance of my own biased nature. If truth matters, you simply can't "feel" your way into it. Doing so is a guaranteed way to find yourself believing in wrong things.

So if you don't have anything besides the Spirit, you literally have nothing, and no one has any reason to believe in your faith.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

AntiCitzen:

I've never heard of this book. How is this book relevant?

BYP:

How is it relevant? Because it is a powerful examination of dozens of legal cases in the Book of Mormon showing it is genuinely authentic, and it is peer reviewed, and it is authored by the founder of FARMS himself, which you claim has not been peer reviewed, so FARMS materials don't count. You are simply uninformed and wrong. And how do you know how truth is supposed to be found? What qualification do u have?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

AntiCitzen:

And when I say he Spirit is not good enough, I really do mean it.

BYP:

I know you mean it, but it doesn't do anything more for you about being correct. Who are you to decide in what manner truth is found and understood? You then pretend we have nothing but the spirit, how do you come to such silly conclusions? I have MANY videos where I show evidences and haven't yet mentioned testimony. How come you are fighting strawmen? Can you actually deal with the evidences? Will you do so?

[AntiCitizenX]

"Who are you to decide in what manner truth is found and understood?"

I never decided this. Our own cognitive bias decided it. Human fallibility decided it. Scientific method decided it. Subjective, emotional experiences (ie, the Spirit) are well-established as unreliable metrics for truth.

Beware the red herrings. All I said originally was "don't use the Spirit," which you haven't. So kudos.

Again: "how does one tell what's correct and what Smith botched in the translation?"

[TheBackyardProfessor]

LOL! Clueless as I said.

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

oh an dthsi stuff liek tehhorses must REALLy have existed cause one man wrote ONE boook in 1830...

[Estaban333]

Well you have (at most) 4 million people who share that view (non-official LDS source) which constitutes a very tiny minority of religious believers and an even tinier minority of humanity - do a few miracles as Joseph promised you would and you might get more takers.

[Estaban333]

The lack of horse remains is just one of hundreds of anachronisms in the BoM. No horses plus a few (!) other issues such as DNA, linguistics, anthropology, geography, etc. Also Lt. General Joseph Smith (Presidential candidate) was not really a good example of self-effacement.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Yeah.... as long as you refuse to look at all sides, you cancertainly make this claim, unsupported though it is.

[Estaban333]

I do listen to LDS sources. My claims are those which are the most credible - please see the many former mormon sites and their reasons for leaving.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

I don't trust them. Their stories rarely coincide with my own experiences in Mormonism.

[Estaban333]

Oh well must be lies then!

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Distorted versions of reality is more or less like it.

[deboradec3160]

I thought that the horse issue highlights a fundamental problem that Joseph Smith might've been faced as the he translated the plates, that is that there may have been names that he gave to things that he didn't have names for. I other words he named them after things that he was familiar with.

[Estaban333]

I thought he didn't write the BoM??!!

[deboradec3160]

He didn't write the BoM, he translated it.

I recently watched something about the Anasazi Indians. They discover writing on the rocks but aren't sure what their meaning is. One theory is that it is discribing an event in the skies such as a star that went supernova. Modern people, educated people trying to decipher ancient Anasazi pictographs. JS didn't even have the benefit of an education much less the skills to invent something so complex. He simply couldn't have done it.

[Estaban333]

"Simply Couldn't have done it" is what Christian Scientists say about their founder's writings, same with Seventh Day Adventists, same with Islam etc etc. The fact is that they all did do it - possibly with some help from earthly friends (Spaulding and Rigdon?).

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Spaulding and Rigdon have been so over-examined and found not even in the same ball park that it's not funny. I suspect you ought to update your understanding. And then again, if you aren't interested, don't worry about it - GRIN!

[Estaban333]

No they are still up to date, if you read LDS sources, it's all disproved but don't limit yourself to 'faith building' reading - try 'Who Really Wrote the BoM'

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Oh GAWD! Are you that far behind the times in your learning? Thatbook is a tissue of fantasy thinking and a waste of my time. The reviews against it are far stronger, more accurate, and credible.

[Estaban333]

Have you read 'Who Really Wrote the BoM' - an interesting point in the book - Joseph's uncle gained a little fame and a few dollars by (genuinely) finding an old document that no-one in the US could interpret (it was finally interpreted in Europe). Seems to have given our boy an idea - worked better for him than he anticipated.

[AntiCitizenX]

Sorry, but I must address this comment.

You can't claim "credibility" when you are so eager to scoff at the peer-reviewed literature. A man who fails to submit to peer-review is a man with no case.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

AntiCitzen:

You can't claim "credibility" when you are so eager to scoff at the peer-reviewed literature. A man who fails to submit to peer-review is a man with no case.

BYP:

No one here is scoffing at peer review except YOU. You dismiss FARMS publications, yet they ARE peer reviewed. Then you have the chutzpah to accuse us of scoffing? Dismissing? Hiding? Presenting nothing?

[CTHULUgreatoldone]

oh then why dont any NON mormon bipartisan organizations present any of your "peer reviewed iterature"??

[Jarkko1983]

There's also paintings of horses found in america, not to mention that horse ones have been found, wheter or not they date to nephite time is irrelevant, because the fact is that atleast horses have existed before columbus and that means horses are possible for bom aswell.

First one should dig open thewhole of american continent, before they can say no horses existed, and even then those bone eating beetles might have been there to do it, so there's no way one can prove they didn't exist.

[gord1921]

Its true dude. I was in a little town called Zumpango and they were digging up some really old Nahuatl ruins and the people found some writings on some of the rocks and they had horses (or something that looked a heck of a lot like horses) on them! It was incredible and I was surprised the news stations weren't around the next day.

[CIRELUX]

nice vid on the Horse. It whould be nice to find them at the time of the BOM. but it dos not make or barck the BOM.

[gurumagoo]

So now we have a fossil horse bone eating beatle. R-I-G-H-T. wink wink

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Yeah, them dang beetles don't have no respect for we humans desires to find evidence - GRIN! How *dare* Mother Nature do things contrary to human expectations, the chicancery of it all!

[gurumagoo]

I wouldn't call call any of the BOM's obvious errors "trivial". I'm still laughing at the FARMS guy talking about Tapir(a giant rodent) riding Jewish Native Americans riding in sleds (but they call them chariots. In the Bible when they speak of horses they mean horses. Maybe when the BOM speaks of horses they mean giant rats!?!?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

But it has been demonstrated, your mirth to the contrary, that other ancient cultures did not call animals, birds, or plants, by the names which *we* think they ought to! LOL! Jokes on you bud. Do *all* acient cultures *have* to conform to *our* version of reality, or else we delcare them stupid, insipid, and false? What silliness.

[skyaglow]

and.... concerning bone evidence, yesterday on cnn news, it is reported they are now finding a beatle which feeds on nothing but dinasour bone.. if these beatles eat dinasour bone is it possible they eat other bone too? things that make you go hmmm

The book of Mormon is true

Its a great book!!

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Now WHO would have thought of that? Bone eating bugs?!? Never say never with the Book of Mormon. If it doesn't exist today is certainly not evidence that it never existed.

[skyaglow]

to unbelieviers  whos to say where and where not God can put a horse or any other animals for that matter??

God can do what he wants to do... what about moses who smoot a rock and water came out of it?

with God anything is possible and Im sure putting a horse on the american continent was not a big deal for God to do. : )

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Horse manure they would accept it as God's truth (get it? Horse manure? GRIN!)They don't accept Nahom, and it's precisely in the correct spot, at the correct time, and the correct customs associated with it as Nephi said, and critics simply WON'T accept this direct, perfect bullseye. Finding the horse would do nothing to convince critics, anymore than Nahom does, or the obviously correct archaeologically discovered genuine realistic Jewish male name Alma. The horse would not convince the critics

[MuzzleBlast357]

Look, you're underestimating this whole horse thing. I mean, if they found solid evidence that there were horses in America, thousands of Book of Mormon critics would be willing to admit they were wrong and accept it as God's truth. So you can't say that horses aren't...eh...what's that? You say you DON'T think the critics would admit they were wrong about the Book of Mormon? Well...don't you think you're being a bit HARD on them? I'm sure some would...no? How about one or two? How about one?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

O.K., we now have NAHOM in the Arabian Desert on the real and ancient Frankincense Trail, which really IS a place location and the trail REALLY DOES turn East as Nephi said it did in the Book of Mormon, and the trail REALLY does end at a place logically and obviously BOUNTIFUL compared to the arid dry desert. Now show me just ONE critic who accepts this real Book of Mormon evidence. There is ORE there are Nephi said, TREES for ship building, WILD HONEY which he said they ate, etc.