Koukl : why Atheistic Fundamentalism ? apologetics

[bluband2]

So being just molecules makes everything useless? With all respect but that's bull. We atheists believe in discovery. The universe hold secrets we need to explore. U believers look at the world and say: "gosh what a mess, but let's just believe there's something better after this" . Why we atheists keep trying to convince U? Simple, we are all on the same planet, and we are interdependant. We don't need supersticion, it's harmfull and dangerous, just like, as u mentioned, opium is.

[MusiComic]

Greg Koukl is a fantastic thinker and communicator. Thank you for adding this!

[army103]

If those were his opinions before he became a Christian (there are no values, no meaning to anything, etc), he was as much a fool when he was an atheist as he is now.

[grandconjunct]

If you are not a Nihilist then you are just a pretend atheist , also known as a "Christian atheist" or "western atheists". When you begin to study Philosophy or western thought this will begin to dawn on you , then you will wish you had not typed such an ignorant comment for all to see.

[fmmetamc]

@grandconjunct exactly, he cannot live life without violating his own worldview at every turn.

[N1k1mon]

Most Atheists seem to become HUMANISTS who are extremely concerned with THEIR OWN LIFE, THE HEALTH OF THE PLANET AND THE LIFE OF THEIR POSTERITY!!! So they educate themselves, they try and make the future bright for the following generations..etc etc, in fact exactly THE OPPOSITE could be said about you who believe you will be raptured and that the earth is 'fallen' and going to be destroyed...you only seem to live for the day and dont care who you trample on in 'gods' name. Thats why they argue

[larry1961]

N1K1mom Why you think that all Christians are the OPPOSITE on the stewardship of the earth? Who have we trampled on?

How many people in the 19th/20th century were killed by the religious vs those who were atheist?

Most Christians who ARE true Christians are true ladies and gentlemen who would give their lives for friend or foe. Do you hate religion because what you have seen fits your view? If so, why not search till you find a loving God? Or do you just hate religion in general?

[N1k1mon]

I am SO SICK of the Xtian argument that Atheists have no meaning in life....that their lives have no purpose...if anything their lives have greater purpose as the Xtians sit around and wait for the rapture or to 'die and go to heaven'....And how many religious world leaders have destroyed humanity compared to downright atheists??? gimme a break here...RELIGION = GENOCIDE & JUSTIFIED HOLY WARS.

Give it up, we all know what religion has done to the world.

And I'm not even an Atheist...

[larry1961]

N1k1mon

I personally think atheists have lots of purpose. I think they really feel sorry for we who believe. But I disagree with your premise that we are sitting around waiting. The Bible is against that attitude as you are. Real Christians labor greatly for mankind....feeding the poor, building churches and relationships, teaching the poor how to build and harvest.

I know personally of many thousands of people in Calcutta, the Congo, Russia, etc., who have been fed and clothed by Christians

[JesusSatanAllah]

Why should an atheist argue with a Christian zombie believer? It is because Christians are trying to run OUR LIVES under their crackpot religious doctrine. What we need to do is DESTROY Christianity by demonstrating the 100% proven fact that the Jesus godman is a fairy tale made up by delusional men.

[N1k1mon]

Or just prove that he is the exact same person as the Egyptian Horus, they have EXACTLY the same life story except Horus was way before Jesus....and the rest of the OT and NT stories can be found in mostly Egyptian and other pre-existing cultures and religions....the biblical authors were plagiarists and sophists, it is ABSOLUTELY, 100% PROVEN FACT THAT THIS IS TRUE....but the biblicist will argue that somehow these people had access to prophecies and thats how they knew...or that its all a plot

[larry1961]

N1k1mon

regarding Horus and Egyptian gods, you should research Gary Habermas (even on YouTube).

And you are agreeing with this jesussatanallah guy's bullying attitude? Why would you want to use capital DESTROY for someone's beliefs? I thought you said that it was Christianity that killed lol.

I find this an odd oxymoron (for lack of better word)

[larry1961]

Christians trying to run your life? No one's calling you a Zombie lol.

Destroy Christianity? If it is real (and it is) do you think you can destroy it?

And you say Christianity is militant?

You want to destroy? Lol please tell me you are kidding.

[saintkamus14]

If you don't mind being lied to to feel better that's your problem.

But taking a kid and lying to him because you think it will make them feel better is downright evil.

Then you make the most incredible claim for religion and/or god.

That with out it we wouldn't have any morals. I for one, am thankful i don't get my morals from holy books.

I don't like slavery, i don't think less of women or gay people.

I also don't think is moral to kill your son because "god told you to".

[PaulHarrison1976]

Many atheists are religion professors because they love to study religion and discuss what people believe and why. They love to be challenged, challenge, write, dialogue, and debate like anyone else. It can be very intellectually stimulating, invigorating, and a great way to live.

We also want to oppose the dangers in religion especially when it gains cultural influence. We might even care enough about people that we don't want to see their lives harmed by false beliefs.

[grandconjunct]

Sure no problem Paul, some beliefs are dangerous No one seriously denies this, many proffesors are insulated on Tax payer funded colleges where they can spend tax payer money like its free money from heaven without fear of consequences for being wrong.Or do social experimentation with no fear of consequences, religious folk have a right to oppose this and sometimes do, I know some proffesors believe they have no false beliefs or false

itself doesnt exist,unless talking about God

[grandconjunct]

In my college experience I was told to keep all my religion beliefs to my self most of time, Was told in speech class I could talk about anything but God. My philosophy proffesor liked being challenged except when He was wrong then my papers suddenly were graded down a step, It seemed to me the message was question all authority but the proffesors, and dont ever dare win an argument unless you dont care about your grade.but im sure it was more stimulating for

you Paul.LOL

[PaulHarrison1976]

I barely made it through high school! No, I don't disagree with a thing you said.

[grandconjunct]

yeah same here !

[Sludgy9]

I'm aware of the function of words. Your attempt at belittling has failed. Im talking about keeping definitions to a minimum, as to enjoy things more-less labels, more experience. Clearly you cannot grasp this.Your utterly pathetic comment about atheism leading to hate for truth or logic, is laughable. You reveal your own gross misunderstandings with that sentence alone.Dont cocmment on something you dont understand.

[grandconjunct]

Your gone for 2 months then come back continuing the conversation as though it were yesterday ?? without even a Hi again ? or something ? I thought we were friends sludgy!

If someone has no god they are an atheist, if you like language and communcation you will not fight words since they Refrence things and Ideas (I.e label things)I do not wish to belittle you, but communicate with you and playing the coy 20 question game is annoying in a 500 words or less environment.

[grandconjunct]

Also sludgy everyone would like to take pot shots at the other side without having to defend anything themselves, this is totally understandable, but you have to replace God with something other than a black T-Shirt with a letter "A" on it. you need a label, words label or refrence Ideas or things, If an idea cannot be described in words or labels than it is a meaningless idea. I know Atheists often say words, truth and God are meaningless, but it seems they are denying truth to get to God.

[Sludgy9]

Why pidgeon hole yourself? Why categorize your every feeling on any given topic? Christians-or any religious denomination, act on absolutes-fitting to their simple minds-if you arent one of us, youre evil. I am not one of them, and no matter what, i will not classify myself, but beleive in certain moral tennets, but have NO ties to a god, or deity. Fuck the need to put everything, and everyone into a nutshell.

[grandconjunct]

Words have meaning that describe real things in real world , sludgy who "doesnt believe in any gods" is a real thing ,we need words to communicate and refer to particular beliefs groups etc. Would you prefer i called you the artist formely known as atheist ? I dont believe Atheists are necessarily any more evil than anyone else that is a simple minded absolute of yours. Are you saying you classify your self as a nonclassifier ? Atheism always leads to Nihlism and hatred for words, truth/Logic.

[friscoeric]

Lol, so Sludgy9, you are saying that people EITHER need to say "Fuck the need to put everything and everyone into a nutshell"... OR else they have simple minds?

[Sludgy9]

And while you are in the mood to classify here, can you admit, that there are people who dont beleive in any types og god, who dont consider themselves Atheists such as myself?

[grandconjunct]

If you simply had no god then you would not have searched for a video on "atheistic fundamentalism" and watched it and commented on it with narrow absolute precise english words that mean what they mean and not the opposite of what they mean. You describe your self as someone who "doesnt believe in any types of God" thats an absolute description , are you saying you would prefer to be called a bright ? or just sludgy the guy who "doesnt believe in any God" ?

[Sludgy9]

"Molecules crashing together" "No Grounding for right andf wrong"...Im sure you are aware, before you generalize all Atheists into the one herd, that there are varying degrees of Atheism and varying ideas that accompany it. To disregard this is utterly absurd, but no Doubt serves Koukl well in cutting all the Atheist down. Obviously, he is blindly generalizing and demeaning himself in the process.

[grandconjunct]

The only version or denomination of Atheism I can think of that would have a problem with the "atoms crashing" comment would be an atheist that rejects Materialism , better known by many atheists as "christian atheists"

There non physical metaphysics are subject to the same critiques they give for god ironically ! , I appreciate that there are Atheists that are so close to christianity in the west , but Atheist,Atheists (I.E. Naturalists) are correct to laugh and call them "Christian Atheists"

[grandconjunct]

I just put a link to Grek Koukls Stand to reason apologetics web page and the free audio 2 minute podacasts at pluggdtv dot com

in the ABOUT THIS VIDEO grey box to the right of the video , just click the small blue MORE button then click on links to listen to the free audio .

[gCuezy]

at 2:06 that is my cousin... which is pretty freaky because we have no idea who the video poster is or how he got the picture... weird.

[grandconjunct]

The Lord works in Mysterious ways !

[pkingo1]

He claims that bad stuff follows from atheism because there is no god to be held accountable to. That is to say that god makes us moral. I would say that any religious person can actually justify their bad actions by claiming it is the will of god rather than take personal responsibility.

[grandconjunct]

some people follow the money/motivation others need less reward / punishment types motivation , God will be less or more important to your personal ethics based on your character , but Mao , Stalin etc.. clearly needed a lot more God in there particular cases.

[grandconjunct]

and as far as "religious can justify bad behavior by calling it Gods will " bad human behavior is always wrong , even if god turns it around for good the religious person is still accountable for his bad .only atheism can justify being bad . Gods not helpfull here at all.

[OntoLogos]

Empiricism rests on a Logical Fallacy:

post hoc ergo propter hoc-

after this, because of this.

A precedes B, it must be the cause of B.

The philosophers have use the famous silly ditty:

The rooster crows, the Sun comes up, the rooster crows, the Sun comes up= the rooster's crowing caused the Sun to rise.

[grandconjunct]

Empiricism does not entail you make no distinction between cause and correlation , since time causes the timing of the sun rising at an exact moment it does and this same time causes the biological clock of a rooster to crow before the sun comes up , so time is the cause of sun rising and rooster crowing and are simply correlated , empiricism has its problems scientism etc.. but this is not one of them

[agentorange20]

just b/c god doesn't exist or one doesn't have faith in god doesn't mean we shouldn't have rules to live a better life by to ensure a just society based on laws. to use the concept as an afterlife as a threat to persuade one to do good is a needy if you ask me, we should help are fellow human despite any such supposed glory.

[grandconjunct]

of coarse you SHOULD have rules to live BETTER life , ethics etc, thats not the point , the question is why OUGHT an atheist be moral ? how does she LOGICALLY JUSTIFY absolute unchanging univeresal laws of Ethics ? why should another atheist follow your "LAWS" and not come up with his own ? what does the concept BETTER mean when comparing your atheist ethic with another athiest ethic ? better for you or him ? your laws reduce to he with the biggest guns or power wins.

[grandconjunct]

afterlife is not a motivation by threat , do atheists only work to earn money for fear of starvation ? do they only feed there kids because they FEAR the government will put them in jail if they dont feed them ? do atheist only take out the trash and hug there wifes for FEAR she will leave them all of reality has positive and negative motivations , no one will follow God by fear alone love neccessary and the only true motivator but if no consequences in afterlife why not cheat a little ?