Greg Kroah Hartman on the Linux Kernel

[zungaloca]

He has some open source sparkle of steve jobs..

T~T

[balkiprasanna1984]

yeah.. I am interested in robotics developed on linux drivers... Can anyone tell me if they worked on it ...

[TheDeadlyPythonTube]

This guy has no idea what he's talking about. The purpose of the kernel is just to talk to the hardware and manage all the resources. And this goal should be archived by a small and fast kernel. Saying 'Bring your code into the kernel' is a dumb thing to say. It's just going to bloat the kernel and make it slow.

[GiedriusJ1]

@TheDeadlyPythonTube what you say would be true, if Linux Kernel would be Microkernel, or even Hybrid kernel. Since you can put drivers/file system stuff, inside the kernel, thigs usually become even more stable/fast. Btw, have you ever compiled your own Linux kernel? I gues no, because you would've known that you can make extremely lightweight kernel, by not compiling stuff you don't use.

[mysticxhobo]

im trying to become as smart as this man. i have a long way to go.

[martinmartiini]

16:37 "we wanna make sure we never brake a machine that was working previously" -- Does this mean linux ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY breaks computers (or he talks about breaking linux system) ???

[Bitwzyze]

@martinmartiini He doesn't mean snapping chips in two. Say person X submits a patch, dealing with graphics cards. That patch makes the output of the graphics cards behave erratically - they're not being controlled properly by the kernel. Person X is said to have "broken" the graphics card - with that kernel, it no longer functions as it should.

[UNFLASHY]

this has to be one of the most boring google talks

[Gyula9999]

at 33:34 you can read this on the screen: "WTF are you doing reading this" xD

[TheMeanEYE]

@Gyula9999 Good catch :) 

[Bitwzyze]

@Gyula9999 Nice catch. That's just like Greg.

[joanindo]

i dont see amd and canonical on the list. are they on the top 40s? if not, screw them!

[Bitwzyze]

@joanindo Canonical submits almost nothing. They don't do shit for the kernel.

[RedDwarffs]

Makes me and my little kernel feel so small... but yet, inspired.

[stephenmneedham]

Just how good is it? Anyone reading this using it? I would love to know. Is Windows a stream roller that can be stopped? 

[moofang]

@stephenmneedham If by "using it" you mean "using Linux" and as a replacement for Windows on the desktop, then yes I am - I'm typing this on Linux, and I personally love it. If you're interested I encourage you to give it a shot. It's free :)

[jquiroga2k]

@stephenmneedham YOU will be using it TOO. SOON ! If you use any mobile that uses Android then you already are.

[TheMeanEYE]

@stephenmneedham Yep, am using it right now, and have been for years. It's different and in my opinion worth the change. I wouldn't really like to see MS or Mac stopped. In my opinion you need to have competition in order to produce good software.

[Qkumber1]

TL;DW

[JonJon90245]

18.5% Amateurs! Hobbyists! Enthusiasts! You know maybe Windows 7 isn't so bad after all

[Vlakpage]

@JonJon90245 It's worse than you think. In Linux you can fix something yourself but in Windows you don't have the chance. Don't get it wrong, the patches get reviewed, tested and signed. Linux enthusiasts are usually well educated folks, don't think about them as second class people.

[kingofqwerty]

@JonJon90245 Software written by enthusiasts vs. software written by drones? Yeah, open and shut case lol :)

[tsmeade2]

@JonJon90245

Just because 18.5% are amateurs doesn't mean they're contributions aren't quality. You have students and professors and other qualified people adding to it. I'm sure most of them are more qualified to contribute to a huge project like this than you are.

[r0llskyay0]

@googletechtalks

Maybe wikipedia is wrong, but they have his name hyphenated 'Kroah-Hartman'

[IMidnightChocolateI]

Join the Open source Revolution!!!!!

[conversions]

please re-up in hd

[cogar48]

@conversions Why would you want it in HD if you're a linux user? Flash is shit on Linux in HD.

[nikhilesh93]

@cogar48: Stream the FLV directly using mplayer. ;-)

[adamsfusion]

23:19 "Canonical does not give back to the community"

Useless sack of potatoes they are.

[xm4nfedoralinux]

MICROSOFT WILL DIE AS A COMPANY!!! MICROSOFT WILL GO TO HELL!!!!

LONG LIVE OPEN-SOURCE AND FREE SOFTWARE!!

[Linux4UnMe]

check out my linux channel people.... nothing but linux/opensource goodness :)

[martinmartiini]

Greg Kroah Hartman works for Novell / opensuse

ubuntu was my preferred distro ... but .. one must admit .. opensuse is so much better than any other distro out there in every way

[IDmann700]

what programing language is the kernel written in?

[Mr0dis0]

@IDmann700

The kernel is writeen in Java. Architecture-specific parts are in VB.NET..

[xm4nfedoralinux]

@Mr0dis0 NO NO NO!! The Kernel is written in C, NOT Java.!!!



[MrJordanstech]

@Mr0dis0 lol. I hope you're kidding

[FmbHerofmb]

@Mr0dis0 lol

[mercatormac]

@IDmann700 GCC C

[xm4nfedoralinux]

Evil corporations never will influence Linux because Linux is open-source and protected by GPL. Its all about community NOT evil old-school proprietary business models. So people who say corporations are influencing Linux are definitely not well knowledgeable in Linux or are just to ignorant about Linux. Microsoft is gradually declining in power and is losing ground to Linux and open-source and Microsoft will soon be bankrupt and pathetic!! Linux rules!!

[BigBobsh2o]

@xm4nfedoralinux

Linux will at most take a chunk out of Microsoft. And the problem with open source is accountability. The fact that they owe you nothing and can just walk away from this at will is a huge problem from a business stand point.

I really hope these people are being paid for what they do. If not this is a big waste of talent.

[ThunderAppeal]

@BigBobsh2o And what keeps microshit from walking away from the companies they have a 'contract' with?

[BigBobsh2o]

@ThunderAppeal

Money, market share, etc. And aren't they legally bound by support agreements they laid out?

When you have billions at stake someone is going to make sure that doesn't happen. And that's why I like Linux. Giving consumers options is a good thing and competition keeps companies on their toes.

With Linux a distro walk out or abandonment is much more likely. Not that Linux will ever go away but a distro can. And if you depend on that distro it could be a problem.

[ThunderAppeal]

@BigBobsh2o Really? You must know your history very well, how many times has microshit 'partnered' with other software developers, hijacked their code and called it their own? Have you actually ever read their agreements? Admittedly I havent, but I've seen microshit at work, its garbage, the only reason companies stay with microshit is because they dont know any better. Besides that, how is a 'contract' a demonstration of competence? The only ones who make sure of anything are their lawyers

[tuseroni]

@ThunderAppeal microsoft's 3 e's, embrace, extend, extinguish

[ThunderAppeal]

And lawyers dont write competent code.

[frvfilms]

what sucks is that #linus torlvalds takes all the credit ,just like real life jobs the worker ants do all the hard part and the boss takes the credit

[50izdead]

SEVEN

[tpiom]

24:13

The unknown folks are Microsoft employees... They're sick of Windows. Heheh..

[geekfreackz]

Currently, I'm a Mac user. But, my next computer will probably be a Linux based Computer (I don't know which distro just yet... maybe Mandriva or OpenSuse, or Ubuntu... there are so many good distros out there!)

Go Linux!

[jeroeniskoning]

"The future will be open."

[medoelkorsan]

i think Linux is the only hope for developed countries to contribute in the field of IT and stop the evil companies such MS from dominating the this field ...

[OSGUIShow]

true

[blenderpanzi]

@medoelkorsan Well there is also *BSD but yeah. You're probably right.

[snguy90]

@medoelkorsan did you even watch the video? evil corporations are influencing Linux.!!

[medoelkorsan]

@snguy90 i watched the video i don't know if you watched it! yourself .. microsfot doesn't influence linux at all in what sense are they doing so? i think you are just saying things that you are not aware about!

[snguy90]

@medoelkorsan Is IBM?

[xm4nfedoralinux]

@snguy90 .... IBM is NOT influencing Linux. Nothing influences Linux except for the community of people!!!

[roflschofel]

@xm4nfedoralinux indirectly they might be but no the do not have actual influence.

[xm4nfedoralinux]

@roflschofel NOT even indirectly, IBM has absolutely NO influence, whether direct or indirectly. Linux might be funded by big name companies like IBM, Intel, etc. but funding does not necessarily mean influence. The drive of kernel development is not affected by funding from big name companies. Its the community of people who are contributing to the kernel. Google it. But funding will help the development of kernel but its not the drive of the linux kernel development.

[xm4nmintlinux]

This was a great keynote!

I went ahead and downloaded latest kernel and compiled it and posted it to my GRUB and tried botting from it.

IT WORKED!!

All I had to do was download the NVIDIA linux driver and voila! I am in!!

I am going to be tinkering with the kernel and contribute!!

[untseac]

at first I was thinking "god.. 50min... I'm not going to listen to all this crap" but then it turned out to interesting to miss lol

[leporidus]

Really enjoyed this talk. This gives me a whole 'nother prespective at the cores of Linux distros I've used and contributed to. I'd like to see a similar presentation of the GNU codebase that comes with GNU/Linux.

[catskul]

Description... line breaks.... aaaaaaah!

[funkwurm]

Hah, I'm not the only one who noticed :)

[rwmacleod]

test comment... having some trouble commenting on another tech talk!

[gnulinux540]

There's no stopping Linux !

[TheCuteakshara]

If there were no patent laws on coding, it would have crushed everything !!!

[llothar68]

@gnulinux540

Only the Linux Geeks can stop Linux. And they do it pretty well.

1% Desktop usage says it all.

[nickrohn93]

@llothar68 How could you possibly record who uses it for desktop.

[llothar68]

@nickrohn93

You can measure it and there are companies who are doing it. Currently the Desktop market is falling (against 2009 numbers) and fall below the 1%. Even if you give it a +-100% its just 2%.

Hint (people on the Desktop are browsing the internet) and no not everyone is faking there User Agent anymore.

[odiousominious]

@gnulinux540 I second that, but at the same time we need to make people feel comfortable using it so that it can grow as an OS

[goodkill1]

@gnulinux540 on linux right now ^^

[siolux8]

grow bigger, get faster, invent better. WOHOO

anything will run under "the kernel",,,

[carlostinonsa]

I start to believe that xD...

[CurtHowland]

Grow bigger, yes, in source code.

But the compiled kernel can still boot on a 1.4MB floppy.

[djchrisi]

That was one of the best keynotes ever

[Borbuster]

What the fuck is a keynote?

[djchrisi]

Google 's your friend

[Rue89]

Bill Gates doesn't work for Microsoft anymore, and why should he care? He's wealthy enough to provide for himself and his family x10000000000.

[mdostay]

Great talk -- Greg is obviously very knowledgeable, and he's a positive force in the community. He's poured a ton of effort into the kernel, and he actually likes to document things (Linux Kernel in a Nutshell, LDD3ed, LWN articles, etc.). Respect, man. BTW Greg, it's "ostensibly" NOT "obstensively" ;-)

[xm4nlinux]

Greg knows alot about the kernel. Believe me, I talked to him in person.

I contributed a little to the kernel but I am working on getting some device drivers to Greg and trying to get that into the future kernels but I think it will go on minor revisions.

[cyborgtroy]

toilet? What are you even talking about??

[Zerothis]

Could you please annotate the off-screen questions and comments

[uvmedraco]

Go Andrew!! lol

[jozsy23]

Wow 49min : )

[OneNation2525]

Cut off IBM , mean IBM is putting alot of Biometrics in the Code and that is a Big Problem

[TheCuteakshara]

They are putting design patterns and all that boring shit they already put into J2EE..... yes cut em off before they make hacking sad and boring

[bexy575]

wow i wish i understood all this rubbish

[horneyvirus]

bexy you stupid bitch, GTFO!

[bexy575]

wow, how very civilized of you. thank you for your opinion.

[horneyvirus]

It's actually a command.

[bexy575]

GTFO means nothing to me. i tend to use proper english. not all that text nonsense.

[horneyvirus]

Leave me alone!!!

[bexy575]

You were the one who replied to me. It is courteous to reply with a response.

[someman7]

Wah. Linux aint everything.

[inclusivedisjunction]

It's the only thing.

[someman7]

Almost. I'm happy it isn't. And I hope it'll be replaced with a microkernel soon. Preferably one that's not named after the project manager.

[inclusivedisjunction]

They've been trying to develop a free microkernel for 20 years. It hasn't gotten anywhere. It probably never will. If Linux provides excellent stability and performance, even as a monolithic kernel, then for what purpose do you need a microkernel? Even Windows and OS X don't use microkernels.

[someman7]

Actually OS X' XNU is Mach (microkernel) + monolythic. Hybrid they call them. It may not be a real microkernel, but it's not far. Minix is a working microkernel, Linux just became more popular. I wasn't talking about Hurd. I want a new thing. Linux seems overbloated to me. Microkernels give flexibility, better modularity, and even if Linux is stabile as is, it still is less stabile than a microkernel. It's just a superior technology, and monopol of Linux always bugged me. That's my opinion.

[inclusivedisjunction]

If Minix was a "working" microkernel actually capable of anything useful, Linux wouldn't exist. All "hybrid kernels" in common use today are actually quite the opposite of what Linux does. OS X and Windows run their graphics in the kernel, whereas Linux runs almost everything in user space. The entire point of a microkernel is to run things in user space. Linux is extremely modular, and can be reduced to just over half a megabyte. I'd hardly call 3% of desktops and 60% of servers a "monopoly."

[someman7]

As you wish. But I want to repeat, Linux is not all there is. I hope its monopoly in free software OS's (and by this I also mean measured in contributors & users) will end. It's not bad, but it's one major tree, and that's all. I dream of the day when a kernel will fit in few kB, and users themselves will build on it whatever they want. Something ultimate, easily extensible, modifiable, even replacable, in the spirit of free software.

I must insist, monolithic kernels are not the way to go.

[inclusivedisjunction]

Your desire for a variety of free operating systems is irrelevant to kernel design. As I said, Linux can easily be made to fit in a small space. When you add all of the features that most people need to a microkernel design, you really don't save on space. "Microkernel" doesn't mean "small size", it means "smaller pieces." Linux is the most popular free OS because it was started at a time when others were legally troubled, so it snowballed with better support.

[inclusivedisjunction]

^ If you want people to use other free operating systems, just tell them about them. You are more then welcome to tell them of FreeBSD (monolithic kernel), Haiku (hybrid kernel), OpenSolaris (monolithic kernel), ReactOS (hybrid kernel), or AROS (probably the only microkernel desktop OS). But ranting about mono vs. micro design, when it has never been shown that Linux is more unreliable or bloated than, say, QNX 6, is ludicrous.

[someman7]

It is relevant because monolithic kerenels are, understandable, harder to remake, or mod (other than "trimming" as you say). It's important for the "open source" model that a project can be easily forked.

Microkernel can grow, but higher modularity makes reducing size easier. And when we add things embedded machine needs, it's less.

Yes, it's a great shame what happened to BSD. The whole market would look different today if it wasn't for that lawsuit.

Linux can head on its way. I want choice.

[inclusivedisjunction]

On the contrary. Linux was designed as a monolithic kernel BECAUSE it was easier to implement than a microkernel. Linux IS modular; almost every piece can be removed and replaced. This was done a long time ago, so it would be easier to port it to other systems, where you needed totally different drivers, and sometimes even totally different memory management techniques. Linux can easily be forked; the reason it isn't is that the momentum of changes couldn't be sustained by a smaller group.

[someman7]

Easier to develop, not implement. So it's not a good thing: it's lazyness. And that lazyness makes it hard to do anything with it, let alone big stuff like rewriting the core, reusing code etc.

Actually, Linus had no intention making portable. You need to revise your history. It was, at first, developed solely for x86 platform.

Even if Linux were easily ported (I believe it's not). The arhitecture of microkernels is by far more portable.

A huge bloated chunk of code can vs well-defined pieces.

[inclusivedisjunction]

I didn't say he started it off as portable; I said that he made it that way, because others DID want to port it. And, whether you like to believe it or not, Linux has been ported to over two dozen major and minor architectures, something that isn't done easily with "non-portable" code. And monolithic kernels ARE easier to create and develop. That is why so few free microkernels exist. Unlike a monolithic kernel, no one has ever written a microkernel overnight.

[someman7]

No, he made it because it was simpler to develop, other people ported it after. He had NO intention to port it whatsoever. Code is portable simply because it's C, and because someone else at an early stage made sure it was. It has NOTHING to do with its architecture. It's still much less portable, I repeat for the 100th time than a microkernel. Monolithic kernels, weather you like it or not just loose when it comes to modularity. Tannenbaum did.

[inclusivedisjunction]

Like I've said the previous two times, Linux was rewritten to be more modular so that people can port it more easily.

If a microkernel is so portable, then why do monolithic kernels support far more architectures? Simple. Microkernels have absolutely nothing to do with portability. The L4 microkernel was written almost entirely in x86 assembly code, and was only rewritten later for portability. Microkernels are a design decision, not a coding decision.

[someman7]

A microkernel can be written in ASM while other things in higher level lang which is portable. That way, you only need to revrite ASM to port (Which you have to dig for in monolithic kernel). Far better portability. You are rewriting (if necessary) much smaller peice.

[inclusivedisjunction]

I'm not sure what you meant by "digging." The few pieces of architecture-specific code are easily identified. The code for each architecture is separated by folders in the kernel source.

[someman7]

I just don't believe that.

[inclusivedisjunction]

You don't have to take my word for it - download the kernel source. Or view the kernel tree. Here's a tinyurl to the git tree.

tinurl (dot) com (slash) 6fey9x

Al the architecture-specific stuff is in the "arch" folder.

[someman7]

Oooh, haha. Seems like that "one folder" expands to multiple folders in root.

[inclusivedisjunction]

Yes, of course the "arch" folder has subfolders - one for each supported architecture. mips, arm, i386, sparc, etc...

[someman7]

which in turn have subfolders such as boot (notice boot in root directory), etc...

[inclusivedisjunction]

Which in turn contain the coding necessary to boot a specific processor.

[someman7]

Now you're getting it.

[inclusivedisjunction]

I already knew all about it. The pieces you see are just the small, processor-specific pieces of code that are needed to boot a particular machine. You would have to create the exact same thing for a microkernel.

[someman7]

Wah. Nevermind. I still think microkernels are superior, and that it's easier to code (once the microkernel is done) specific services with compatible message passing, then extracting + (re)coding + reintegrating modules in a monolithic kernel.

Even more so with stripping the kernel & modding it (eg for an embedded stuff).

[Iminurcomputorz]

I agree that Linux is sort of the "monopoly" in the open source world, other projects doesn't get as much attention as Linux.

I recon you have tried a microkernel OS, if so, is it good? As I understand it, multitasking is a bit more "difficult" (In the terms of speed and stability).

Though I really like the idea that each device driver isn't included in the kernel itself, Linux and *BSD has traces of that (Graphic cards for instance).

[someman7]

I admit, Linux does its job very well in regards its architecture. To tell you the truth, it might be me reading some of what Tannenbaum says that got me thinking this way. I do see the logic in hybrid kernels*, especially the new designs. But projects fail... I don't like monopoly, and I think the microkernel architecture if planned carefully can make a _sort of_ an ultimate OS that may be modded in almost any imaginable way.

*if Windows' core could be called one, then Linux certainly is one

[Iminurcomputorz]

I don't have too much knowledge of the Windows core, but I think it's an extreme example of a monolithic kernel (Even IE is integrated in the kernel).

BSOD's are caused by (usually) bugs in device drivers, whereas in Linux and *BSD, only the drivers fail, not the entire system.

[someman7]

Actually, on GNU/Linux, my system freezes when my display driver fails (BSD too). Why? I don't know. I should be able to get tty, but I don't. BSOD won't go from win, since they incorporate display GUI in kernel (it is fast tho).

But if you go to wiki, you'll get Win NT kernel is hybrid. That's meaningless. Hybrid means nothing. That's probably 90% monolithic & 10% micro-like.

Everything is "hybrid". But I was talking about real hybrids. Linux is closer, but I meant those more micro-like ones.

[Iminurcomputorz]

Heh, strange. Isn't there any error file in xorg? I haven't had any GUI related crashes so I haven't poked around there so much.

Incorporating everything in the kernel might be fast, but it's on the expense of stability and security, something I don't like.

[someman7]

I have no idea. All I know is that it allways happens when the window border is moving extensively. And by window border, I mean it alone. For example, when you minimize a window, you should see a black one. With xvidcap, when you select the area, the frame is red. So if I resize that red thing quickly or if it exceeds a certain height/width, the sys freezes. Next time I'll look at the logs :-)

[fcabral]

lol the fellow who checked in spelling fixes beat out almost all other contributors

[smellycorpse]

He makes Canonical sound evil =P, I use Ubuntu but am thinking about switching to OpenSUSE...

[horneyvirus]

Use debian. Novell is evil distilled.

[TheCuteakshara]

Well said.... Novell is evil

[blacky156]

wow These guys are rude and have a bad attitude.

[apostel13]

no, they are open, that's fun for most people inside the linux community ;)

[mrthomasfritz]

Sorry, but please do not insult people, unless you understand what they do, how they are doing it, and so forth. Otherwise you just looking like an idiot.

[carlostinonsa]

haha no men, they are like that when they are talking with people of the community, but this is a way of talking maded by developers so they can undestand something in a minor complicated way.

[AmyT4]

How do we contribute?

[AmyT4]

How do we contribute?

[on2008nm]

Linux Code is some of the best code I have ever see, its much better than OpenSolaris and FreeBsd code base. Excellent !!

[spinozalocke]

google: "Did you mean: ostensibly"

[gulomb]

Yes, I think that's what he means. Probably also means "permutation".

[horneyvirus]

This isn't even tangential but I have the exact same shirt except in brown that never stays wrinkle free. But it's my favourite shirt because it's kinda wrinkly, organic and random. And then these beautiful fractal patterns form and everybody who looks at me gets struck by awe.

[yuanyelele]

He's name is "grep"? Cool~

[lukelukelukeluke]

I agree with Greg that Google doesn't contribute back enough with the linux kernel. That's a shame 'cause Google is a great company IMO and they should give back a lots more to the community.

[072bead]

These metrics do not make sense to me... Why are they tracking on the number of lines of code or amount of sign off? Is there not an impact or performance measure?

[Neothelastone]

I love Linux .. I'm on OpenSuse 10.3 ..I don't need Kaspersky to browse the net ..Can we expect a modular linux kernal instead of monolithic ..

[horneyvirus]

That would be the hurd.

[Neothelastone]

thank you

[carlostinonsa]

Linux has some modularity, but its not fully modular, you could apply modularity to a monolithic Kernel, maybe in the future it could be fully, but that means a bigger change to it, recoding madness.

About Hurd, i think that if their development team choosed a change in his development style and some goals, maybe Linux never existed like today .

[dino4k]

Actually Greg got it wrong with Cononical: They got 6 changes in 2.6.26, not 6 changes in the last 5 years.

Much more but still not much.

I crated an idea on brainstorm.ubuntu to fix this ;)

(search for "Contribute to the kernel" as i cant post a link here)

[tariqwalji]

I'd hate to picture developing the kernel! Think of all those conflicts that you have to resolve :P

[UTubeXtra]

Well... if it continues to change this fast.. soon will be fucked soon...

[henrythesteinberg]

linux is an operating system, idiot. it runs on pcs and macs

[Madsy9]

Linux is the name of the kernel, not a whole operative system. Different "flavours" called distributions have individual names. The distributions glue the Linux kernel together with other subsystems like XFree/Xorg, GRUB/LILO, etc to form an operative system as a whole.

[carlostinonsa]

The Unix desing philosophy guys!!!

[tariqwalji]

.. and its free O_o

[SilkSwe]

As henrythesteinberg pointed out it is a Operating System so it doesn't matter which machine you buy/own. Furthermore it is completely free and therefor you won't be wasting money on anything. And at last it doesn't suck it just does things different from Windows and OSX.

[brunovecchi]

and it's much better than both of them. Combined.

[TheCuteakshara]

*YOU* are the worthless piece of crap

[Joormode]

We cant hear the questions...otherwise it was ok

[LtMikeNl]

Great guy, linux is lucky to have him... I recently started running linux ubuntu, and have had a very easy time installing and dual booting, just one thing I couldent get to work was the sound.. Stuipd creative dosn't make a linux driver for high end sound card :\ beta versions are out but its a bitch getting it to work.

[Tuxxy87]

I learned quite a lot on how they assemble the code and make it work. It looks like a really good way for the developers to work. They don't have that kind of pressure most developers have on their backs. Especially since a lot of the contributors really are "hobbyists" that slap together some code. Open source seem to be really effective, more than I initally thought. Thanks for this video Google.

[fredriklinnander]

Interesting! Go Linux!