Hey y'all out there! This song opened my eyes for a lot of things: odd meter tunes, scales, all you need when you've lived trhoug the jimi stage. Check all Mahavishnu music.
@oregonbobv Never heard this commentary from others who were there. Thanks for the perspective. It could be entirely possible Jerry stole the show given the incredible opening solo during "Tomorrow's Story Not The Same". However, the following John and Jan fest that follows is clearly some of the best music ever recorded. That song is the most powerful and electrifying shuffle ever laid down. Billy's back beat is astounding!
I maybe 23 but I know what good music is. I use to not like this band. I grew up listening to Jimi, Zappa, Ravi Shankar and Mahavishnu, but never paid much attention to it. I was reading a chapter in my music appreciation text book about Indian Classical Music, and discovered Shakti; I always liked John's work with Miles Davis as well. As a result, I gave it another chance. Between Nothingness and Eternity was always my favorite cd. Music is boring, the 80s killed music. Damn record labels!
Thats what wrong with my generation is you ask me. There is No originality, No thought, No Talent, No Showmenship, No Expertise, No Expierence, No Care & No Desire! All the equipment and technology in the world, and no brains. Musicians have no life and no future. These idiots always complain about pirated music, but if they actually made music maybe someone would buy their records. It's all emo crybaby teenage angst, repetitive, pop crap, Money Cars Clothes & Hoes rap 24/7.
I made fun of him for generalizing the music of an entire generation like that, as if he doesn't understand that there is plenty of great stuff out there.
Can you imagine....the potential this music reveals, if only they were able to get along with each other! If they had gone on and grown together...sheesh!
@Pookleberry I have a friend who owns a stock photography house and he tole me a story about Rick Laird coming in with MO photos and he told a story about them rolling empty beer bottles out onto the stage while John was doing a solo piece. They were burned out on the spritual/religious aspect of McLaughlin.
@dorian411 The biggest shame of all of this is that I don't think there will ever be a reunion. They are by far the biggest influence on me as a musician/composer and would love to see that happen.
Have to agree with fidomusic and bazonics. "Between Nothingness & Eternity" was my first exposure to Mahavishnu and it completely blew me away. The incredible interaction between the players has rarely, if ever, been equalled. I envy tubemank and oregonbobv. longboarder1960 said it; it's impossible to imagine a collection of five more talented musicians in one band.
Thoroughly enjoyed Michael Walden's contribution on the one album, with Jean-Luc Ponty. That was a great, spacious album. Full of texture and harmony. Billy rips, but Narada played with such grace. (as a percussionist)
Guitarist Carl Orr: "I thoroughly enjoyed reading “Follow Your Heart - John McLaughlin song by song.” The descriptions of the music are great, and I particularly enjoy those inspired moments when the author abandons literal description and describes the music in vivid, sometimes surreal imagery."
I was there in Central Park for both days. To hear this music rise into the air, through the trees and bounce off the skyscrapers above the Wollman Rink was just magical. We kept looking at each other, smiling and shaking our heads. Then laughing to keep from being emotionally overwhelmed. It was that good. The live album is a bit distorted, and prevents you from hearing some of what was going on, but the live sound was typical Mahavishnu - delicate, meaty, soaring, coming at you in waves.
@tubemank I was also at the Central Park show. Jerry Goodman stole the show blazing out incredible violin solos with the cry baby Wah Wah Peddle. Also one Word was great since rick Laird Processed the bass solo through the Mini Moog.
Jean-Luc Ponty, Michael Walden, Ralph Armstrong had no part in this music. Only the last efforts of the original Mahavishnu Orchestra. And while the later musicians played a vital role in continuing the innovation of John McLaughlin it was a disservice to present other musicians who had no role in the genius of the last work of the original. OK?
Well, yeah , if you guys know the recording, then it's MO. Me and my friends were covering this stuff and Zappa, and Chick and Joe Z. as it was coming out . So high level and quality covers never surprize me. So I was wrong...And I learned something.... Mostly , once again, how retarded some folk get just cause they're on the internet.
@cromagmax . . . I see. an idiot is someone who hasnt heard a particular recording. I'll write that down...might come in handy. next time I'm drunk and looking for someone to punch in the mouth for no reason. when you wake up you'll know it was another fucking idiot.
NO, AN IDIOT IS SOMEONE WHO WRITES SOME STUPID SHIT LIKE.."you cant fake individual personal articulation. I think youre right. this is a cover band." WHEN ITS ACTUALLY THE ORIGINAL GROUP DOING THEIR ORIGINAL "PERSONAL ARTICULATION"....SO YOU ARE AN IDIOT ....
@kimcorbet This IS from the Trident sessons, UNFINISHED studio tapes that were polished up about 12-14(?) yrs. ago. Recorded in about 1974 or '75, I think.
I was going to disagree, but I think youre right. there are moments where they sound dead on then there are several moments where they all seem like clones who are only getting close. fake cobham especially.
@Iconman3 "They do a fine job of it but some of the parts just don't ring true to the players of MO" .... YOU ARE AN IDIOT...THIS IS THE TRACK FROM THE TRIDENT SESSIONS "
the live version of this and sister andrea from the central park album is the best jazz fusion ive ever heard.Strong tunes with inspirational soloing...
3:51 is a pic The Mahavishu Project cover band. I saw that project twice a few years back. They did an excellent job playing the album Vision of the Emerald Beyond.
Exactly... that's what I said, it's on the "Live in Central Park" album. Git It? Brump ump ump ump... ok. put the cigarettes out and listen to the Who "Live at Leeds" if you want to hear some great rock.... MO is awesome but the atmosphere here has become awfully tedious....... I love you jazz cats....
The version on "Between Nothingness and Eternity" is AWESOME...especially when they break into that fast section. Mclaughlin pulls stuff off in that section that I dont think has been duplicated since!
Though I'd advise you guys - and not in a bad manner, but in a very positive one - try to concentrate on creating and expending your own world. That was the beauty of what went on with this band.
Be inspired by this band and create. Sure, a cover band is a cool thing....but believe me, doing something original, inspired by these minds, might be by far more interesting and inspiring...
There's some that will carry the torch hopefully...a couple of buddies and I are putting a lil trio together to jam out some mahavishnu and cobham's spectrum stuff...and we're 19. I'm not suggesting that we're the next mahavishnu orchestra...but there are younger folks that love music that isn't in the clubs! It's too bad that fusion has been sort of neglected by the jazz community though...
@10thtestiskills Good luck and good to hear u younger guys are getting into it. Don't be afraid to stretch yourself and head into new areas. You may get lucky and make it!
@10thtestiskills Good luck and good to hear u younger guys are getting into it. Don't be afraid to stretch yourself and head into new areas. You may get lucky and make it!
Ha Ha Ha I Agree. Feel like Jake Lamotta taking ALL the hits from Cobham and not even covering up. AND Loving it! lol Nice. I like the Live version on their last release of the original group, too, but this is Great, and Great to hear. As good a definer of Classic (Heavy!) Fusion as there is . . . more or less. These guys warped my world in the 70's. Thanks for the put up & share, rosharris - Important Stuff!
I tend to prefer the live version from 'between nothingness and eternity' but this is still great all the same. Man, those notes on 'La Mere De La Mer', I think any composer through history would have been proud to have written those.
If that is the section with Jan vs John. I agree. Truly transcendent. Especially the live version. I always hear that as if it is sunset. Woulda liked to of been at that show.
@bazonics Yes, that live in Central Park, "Between Nothingness and Eternity" version is far better - particularly the final section where McLaughlin trades incandescent licks with Hammer's wailing quicksilver Minimoog.
As with all their tunes, the studio version merely provides a launch pad for their sublime jamming flights to take off from when playing live.
@bazonics I wish someone would post the live at Central Park version of La Mere De La Mer on Yutube. It's mind blowing. Wait a minute, just listening to it now, I think this IS the live version.
nofo427, not that it is relevant for the music but the title of the album for anyone who wants to look for it should be "Between nothingness and eternity".
buy it :) it's worth every penny, and more. put on a decent headphone, or play it over a set of hi-Q speakers, and enjoy the magic a live recoding can do. :-))
Fantastic!
sensiblesongsters 3 months ago
Hey y'all out there! This song opened my eyes for a lot of things: odd meter tunes, scales, all you need when you've lived trhoug the jimi stage. Check all Mahavishnu music.
Rosharris thanks for posting this version.
Jimihendrixtoo 6 months ago
I saw the live concert in Central Park Great show and Jerry Goodman stole the show.
He cranked out the electric violin with a Cry Baby Wah Wah. The opened the show with Trilogy. The live version is much better.
oregonbobv 9 months ago
@oregonbobv Never heard this commentary from others who were there. Thanks for the perspective. It could be entirely possible Jerry stole the show given the incredible opening solo during "Tomorrow's Story Not The Same". However, the following John and Jan fest that follows is clearly some of the best music ever recorded. That song is the most powerful and electrifying shuffle ever laid down. Billy's back beat is astounding!
dorian411 5 months ago
I maybe 23 but I know what good music is. I use to not like this band. I grew up listening to Jimi, Zappa, Ravi Shankar and Mahavishnu, but never paid much attention to it. I was reading a chapter in my music appreciation text book about Indian Classical Music, and discovered Shakti; I always liked John's work with Miles Davis as well. As a result, I gave it another chance. Between Nothingness and Eternity was always my favorite cd. Music is boring, the 80s killed music. Damn record labels!
Southerntredkill 9 months ago
Thats what wrong with my generation is you ask me. There is No originality, No thought, No Talent, No Showmenship, No Expertise, No Expierence, No Care & No Desire! All the equipment and technology in the world, and no brains. Musicians have no life and no future. These idiots always complain about pirated music, but if they actually made music maybe someone would buy their records. It's all emo crybaby teenage angst, repetitive, pop crap, Money Cars Clothes & Hoes rap 24/7.
Southerntredkill 9 months ago
@Southerntredkill
Blah blah blah.
You could have just said popular music sucks.
lol....Your perceptions are dim.
Good luck with that you rotten dingleberry.
yageman 9 months ago
@yageman wow, that is a lot of hate for someone whose post you read in its entirety.
dorian411 7 months ago
@dorian411
Wow, that's a cool comment bro.
No hate here.
I made fun of him for generalizing the music of an entire generation like that, as if he doesn't understand that there is plenty of great stuff out there.
Yea, I read the WHOLE thing, and made a comment.
Sorry about that.
yageman 7 months ago
@Southerntredkill The mainstream is, check out undergroudn music of the twenty first century, definitely loads of originality and creativity
MartyFriedmanRulez66 2 months ago
Comment removed
Southerntredkill 9 months ago
Comment removed
Southerntredkill 9 months ago
Can you imagine....the potential this music reveals, if only they were able to get along with each other! If they had gone on and grown together...sheesh!
11Frodo11 10 months ago
Funny thing is that when this was recorded, the band members couldn't stand the sight of each other.......
Pookleberry 11 months ago
@Pookleberry True! and perhaps this contributed to this being such a searched out recording.
weewilly49 10 months ago
@Pookleberry I have a friend who owns a stock photography house and he tole me a story about Rick Laird coming in with MO photos and he told a story about them rolling empty beer bottles out onto the stage while John was doing a solo piece. They were burned out on the spritual/religious aspect of McLaughlin.
TheBigdaddysun 8 months ago
@TheBigdaddysun Too bad for Rick. He lost his music career. There is nothing wrong with sincerety.
dorian411 7 months ago
@dorian411 The biggest shame of all of this is that I don't think there will ever be a reunion. They are by far the biggest influence on me as a musician/composer and would love to see that happen.
TheBigdaddysun 7 months ago
Love those sitar-like riffs! JM was/is heavily into Eastern Philosphy- shows....
azarsenalfreaks 1 year ago
Have to agree with fidomusic and bazonics. "Between Nothingness & Eternity" was my first exposure to Mahavishnu and it completely blew me away. The incredible interaction between the players has rarely, if ever, been equalled. I envy tubemank and oregonbobv. longboarder1960 said it; it's impossible to imagine a collection of five more talented musicians in one band.
guitarist3813 1 year ago
Thoroughly enjoyed Michael Walden's contribution on the one album, with Jean-Luc Ponty. That was a great, spacious album. Full of texture and harmony. Billy rips, but Narada played with such grace. (as a percussionist)
dkofva 1 year ago
Guitarist Carl Orr: "I thoroughly enjoyed reading “Follow Your Heart - John McLaughlin song by song.” The descriptions of the music are great, and I particularly enjoy those inspired moments when the author abandons literal description and describes the music in vivid, sometimes surreal imagery."
walterkolosky1 1 year ago
I was there in Central Park for both days. To hear this music rise into the air, through the trees and bounce off the skyscrapers above the Wollman Rink was just magical. We kept looking at each other, smiling and shaking our heads. Then laughing to keep from being emotionally overwhelmed. It was that good. The live album is a bit distorted, and prevents you from hearing some of what was going on, but the live sound was typical Mahavishnu - delicate, meaty, soaring, coming at you in waves.
tubemank 1 year ago 3
@tubemank THANKS,
weewilly49 1 year ago
@tubemank I was also at the Central Park show. Jerry Goodman stole the show blazing out incredible violin solos with the cry baby Wah Wah Peddle. Also one Word was great since rick Laird Processed the bass solo through the Mini Moog.
oregonbobv 1 year ago
@tubemank YOU WERE THERE!?!?!? I'm so jealous. Hearing the Sunlit Path for the first time was a religious experience for me. I'm not kidding.
billwendt 2 months ago
One of the greatest assemblances of musicians of ALLTIME !
One of my favorite bands, VERY PROGRESSIVE, I have all of their stuff on vinyl & CD's - too bad they didnt last longer, I miss this shit
Thanks John, Jan, Gerry, Billy & Rick for some INTENSE music
and thanks to Miles Davis for introducing them to each other
longboarder1960 1 year ago
@longboarder1960 YES
weewilly49 1 year ago
Jean-Luc Ponty, Michael Walden, Ralph Armstrong had no part in this music. Only the last efforts of the original Mahavishnu Orchestra. And while the later musicians played a vital role in continuing the innovation of John McLaughlin it was a disservice to present other musicians who had no role in the genius of the last work of the original. OK?
utopiandesign 1 year ago
The live version has more energy but it is always great a different version. Thanks for posting it!
parisny21 1 year ago
This is awesome stuff- particularly if you know the live version--
The Mahavishnu Orchestra stands as one of the most unique bands of the modern era--
the fire that burned bright, but only for a short while....
davelewitt 1 year ago
@davelewitt Totally agree! Saw them live a few times. Sad it had to end so soon.
parisny21 1 year ago
Well, yeah , if you guys know the recording, then it's MO. Me and my friends were covering this stuff and Zappa, and Chick and Joe Z. as it was coming out . So high level and quality covers never surprize me. So I was wrong...And I learned something.... Mostly , once again, how retarded some folk get just cause they're on the internet.
Iconman3 1 year ago
It is one of the fusion bands I love. Together with Return To Forever.
NoGoats 1 year ago
Best fusion group for ever. No. 1 place in my heart too.
progrockAZ 1 year ago
My No.1 fusion group. Best music ever.
progrockAZ 1 year ago
Oh my GOD!! This is Mahavishnu for Christs sake. Enough!!!
MrBasilGanglia 1 year ago
devastante.
fiorentinaregna 1 year ago
this is MO and not the cover band. Listen to the Lost Trident Sessions.
thedooley 1 year ago
you cant fake individual personal articulation. I think youre right. this is a cover band.
kimcorbet 1 year ago
@kimcorbet ANOTHER FUCKING IDIOT...
cromagmax 1 year ago
@cromagmax . . . I see. an idiot is someone who hasnt heard a particular recording. I'll write that down...might come in handy. next time I'm drunk and looking for someone to punch in the mouth for no reason. when you wake up you'll know it was another fucking idiot.
kimcorbet 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
NO, AN IDIOT IS SOMEONE WHO WRITES SOME STUPID SHIT LIKE.."you cant fake individual personal articulation. I think youre right. this is a cover band." WHEN ITS ACTUALLY THE ORIGINAL GROUP DOING THEIR ORIGINAL "PERSONAL ARTICULATION"....SO YOU ARE AN IDIOT ....
cromagmax 1 year ago
@kimcorbet This IS from the Trident sessons, UNFINISHED studio tapes that were polished up about 12-14(?) yrs. ago. Recorded in about 1974 or '75, I think.
touringkayaker 1 year ago
I was going to disagree, but I think youre right. there are moments where they sound dead on then there are several moments where they all seem like clones who are only getting close. fake cobham especially.
kimcorbet 1 year ago
Not sure but i believe this is THE cover band, not MO...They do a fine job of it but some of the parts just don't ring true to the players of MO
Iconman3 2 years ago
@Iconman3 "They do a fine job of it but some of the parts just don't ring true to the players of MO" .... YOU ARE AN IDIOT...THIS IS THE TRACK FROM THE TRIDENT SESSIONS "
cromagmax 1 year ago
the live version of this and sister andrea from the central park album is the best jazz fusion ive ever heard.Strong tunes with inspirational soloing...
lens2optic 2 years ago
was at this show central park nyc blew my mind
nofo427 2 years ago
Would love to see a reunion of this original lineup.
lagatuda 2 years ago
SI SEÑOR!!!!
perroandaluz2009 2 years ago
Wow so happy to listen to this tune again. Thanks for posting the video.
MrPinoyrock 2 years ago
Wow !!! Good !!! Mythical !!!
marcelitoss 2 years ago
3:51 is a pic The Mahavishu Project cover band. I saw that project twice a few years back. They did an excellent job playing the album Vision of the Emerald Beyond.
snouter 2 years ago
This is also on the "Live in Central Park" album..... (different version but real close)
beelzabubba 2 years ago
better live
nofo427 2 years ago
Exactly... that's what I said, it's on the "Live in Central Park" album. Git It? Brump ump ump ump... ok. put the cigarettes out and listen to the Who "Live at Leeds" if you want to hear some great rock.... MO is awesome but the atmosphere here has become awfully tedious....... I love you jazz cats....
beelzabubba 2 years ago
billy cobham.......................
coreyagraph 2 years ago
8:37- 9:15 my fav riff of all time :)
tlz12345 2 years ago
i LOVE that riff at 5:06!
Nuxunumo 2 years ago
The Sunlit Path...a trip atrip a trip a trip a trip a trip....
saytra123 2 years ago
the best guitar player who ever lived!
thanks for posting.
xTjPx 2 years ago 2
The version on "Between Nothingness and Eternity" is AWESOME...especially when they break into that fast section. Mclaughlin pulls stuff off in that section that I dont think has been duplicated since!
railcar123 2 years ago
Well that is great to hear man.
Though I'd advise you guys - and not in a bad manner, but in a very positive one - try to concentrate on creating and expending your own world. That was the beauty of what went on with this band.
Be inspired by this band and create. Sure, a cover band is a cool thing....but believe me, doing something original, inspired by these minds, might be by far more interesting and inspiring...
shmak 2 years ago 2
According to my books - This Track, and practicly any Mahavishnu track tells me how music has dissapeared in the past 30 years.
very sad...
Incredibleto here where the limits of imagination went in those days...
Unbelievable
shmak 2 years ago 18
There's some that will carry the torch hopefully...a couple of buddies and I are putting a lil trio together to jam out some mahavishnu and cobham's spectrum stuff...and we're 19. I'm not suggesting that we're the next mahavishnu orchestra...but there are younger folks that love music that isn't in the clubs! It's too bad that fusion has been sort of neglected by the jazz community though...
10thtestiskills 2 years ago
Good luck to you guys, btw!:)
shmak 2 years ago
Go for it !!!!.don't let creativity fall to the wayside!!!
Rich..Bass Player
quazli7855 2 years ago 2
It is making a comeback, however, thanks to guys like you and your band. Thanks for bringing it back. And send me an aircheck someday.
pantherius 2 years ago 2
I feel ya man. I'm 16 and my band is playing Prog and Fusion. Softmachine, Camel, King Crimson, and some attempted Mahavishnu.
gingerb91 2 years ago 2
but we never played soft machine....
jamalam17z7 2 years ago
thats awesome, man. id love to start a band like that as well. haha. what do you play?
Nuxunumo 2 years ago
VUG by Atomic Rooster, Rahyader goes to Town by Camel, Nan True's Hole by Matching Mole, the Intro of Close to the Edge by Yes, and so on.
future4zinc 2 years ago
very nice. what istrument you play?
Nuxunumo 2 years ago
oh sorry my older brother was logged into my account he plays drums.
future4zinc 2 years ago
oh gotchya. i play drums too. tell him to keep it up! :D
Nuxunumo 2 years ago
@10thtestiskills Good luck and good to hear u younger guys are getting into it. Don't be afraid to stretch yourself and head into new areas. You may get lucky and make it!
touringkayaker 1 year ago
@10thtestiskills Good luck and good to hear u younger guys are getting into it. Don't be afraid to stretch yourself and head into new areas. You may get lucky and make it!
touringkayaker 1 year ago
Nothing we do will ever go farther than this. Mahavishnu, Miles, Magma, Gong, Return to Forever: they raised the bar very high.
The best we can do is use what we learned, and make our own sounds shine in their own way.
Maybe we can do these guys prouder.
pantherius 2 years ago
@shmak Hey man, cheer up, just gotta look a little harder is all.
raccoonlord 1 year ago
@shmak I would say those limits of imagination were directly reciprocal with the amount of hallucinogenic substances they were ingesting.
Tainted01960 8 months ago
@shmak it hasnt disappeared at all its just not on the radio
Ezy5150 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
hmm, this is nothing for me.
i like house music
aint no music like HOUSE MUSIC!
necrolau 2 years ago
necro, don't forget to lock the doors...
dorian411 2 years ago
yeah man, except not really....
Nuxunumo 2 years ago
Music isn't what it was
zamboteka 2 years ago
Incredibly High Minded...What happened to MUSIC?
bigslick45 2 years ago 5
....really nice, thanks.
SoSeventies 2 years ago
los poliritmos de Cobham son destructivos...amo a esta banda...gloriosa!!
saytra123 2 years ago
The best studio shuffle ever begins at 5:05! YOUZA!!!
dorian411 3 years ago
Ha Ha Ha I Agree. Feel like Jake Lamotta taking ALL the hits from Cobham and not even covering up. AND Loving it! lol Nice. I like the Live version on their last release of the original group, too, but this is Great, and Great to hear. As good a definer of Classic (Heavy!) Fusion as there is . . . more or less. These guys warped my world in the 70's. Thanks for the put up & share, rosharris - Important Stuff!
syr1811 2 years ago
música de verdade
9azmco 3 years ago
I tend to prefer the live version from 'between nothingness and eternity' but this is still great all the same. Man, those notes on 'La Mere De La Mer', I think any composer through history would have been proud to have written those.
bazonics 3 years ago 12
If that is the section with Jan vs John. I agree. Truly transcendent. Especially the live version. I always hear that as if it is sunset. Woulda liked to of been at that show.
OneBigRetard 2 years ago
@bazonics Yes, that live in Central Park, "Between Nothingness and Eternity" version is far better - particularly the final section where McLaughlin trades incandescent licks with Hammer's wailing quicksilver Minimoog.
As with all their tunes, the studio version merely provides a launch pad for their sublime jamming flights to take off from when playing live.
aporia23 1 year ago
@bazonics
I used to have that album. Lost it on LP. Sad. I must find it on CD. The Between Nothingness and Eternity version is the best.
beyondonethousand 1 year ago
@bazonics I wish someone would post the live at Central Park version of La Mere De La Mer on Yutube. It's mind blowing.
fidomusic 1 year ago
@bazonics I wish someone would post the live at Central Park version of La Mere De La Mer on Yutube. It's mind blowing. Wait a minute, just listening to it now, I think this IS the live version.
fidomusic 1 year ago
I LOVE this music SO MUCH!! Mahavishnu Orchestra is like the "soundtrack" of my life!!
DreamingOfBaba 3 years ago 2
glorious!
kevfullo 3 years ago 2
This is the "Trident Sessions" ?
bellagodiva 3 years ago
This is "The Lost Trident Sessions". Hi.
rosharris 3 years ago
Hi! Hey nice job/nice stills and.... music that is so extremely relavent. Can you put up the live performance of this as well?
bellagodiva 3 years ago
was taped in central park nyc from nothingness to eternity album. was there and became a life long fan
nofo427 3 years ago
nofo427, not that it is relevant for the music but the title of the album for anyone who wants to look for it should be "Between nothingness and eternity".
tapsarautanen 3 years ago
Between Nothingness and Eternity was a live album. The Lost Trident Sessions is studio. However, it was't released before 1999.
nohajc 2 years ago
Really Spectacular ! ! !
bellagodiva 3 years ago
buy it :) it's worth every penny, and more. put on a decent headphone, or play it over a set of hi-Q speakers, and enjoy the magic a live recoding can do. :-))
romaneberle 3 years ago