the one minute mark in this - a few years ago when i was working on my private in a t-hawk used to terrify me. Now as a CFI it makes me all...woohoo!. What a fun plane to fly!
I enjoyed doing spins in the Tomahawk. I think the instructor I had tried to make the spins more severe. He told me only to step on the rudder once the aircraft is shaking. This may have caused a more severe nose-down spin. He then also used to let me wait for three rotations before arresting the spin.
Tomahawk low speed + banked turn = deah by spin. Watch the angle of bank vs speed table on the manual and ull se what i mean. If i owned a flight school or plane rental id own 152s rather thank a tomahawk. I dont imply the pa38 is bad, im saying its a danger for the pilot trainee.
I was quite concerned seeing how rapid the spin was from stall warning onset, until I realised that it was thrown into a spin by use of the controls for training purposes. Normally the stall warning comes on, the aircraft gets very sloppy, then the left wing eases over on the stall if you keep pulling back. Trainees need not be fearful of the Tomahawk's stall characteristics, just respectful.
Good video. had a hard time explaining what a spin was to my girlfriend until I found this video. Decent quality, helmet-cam-ish view and not a lot of shaking.
How I see it: Fuel economy: Tie Speed: Cessna 152 wins (barely) Range: Cessna 152 wins (almost the same, but long range 152s exist) Climb: Cessna 152 wins Glide: Cessna 152 wins Simplicity: Cessna 152 wins Sturdyness: Cessna 152 wins Overall safety: Cessna 152 wins by far Cargo: Tie Visibility: For spotting traffic: PA-38, for landing and prospection: C 152 Fun: PA-38 wins Training skill: PA-38 wins Comfort: PA-38 wins If i owned plane or flight school: C-152.
@blueb0g Hmm no reason to doubt u. Like to see source tho. Still there are lots more cessnas (Are we talking 150/2 or 172?) so probably thats the reason more get accident.
Anyway id rather a 152 than a pa38 cos it has the same engine but better glide, much less stall speed, doesnt spin so easily, has one tank selector (selector on tommies had killed ppl), and a lot of safety benefits and from my POV safety is first, specially in trainers.
@DJK290 No bro you didnt misunderstood me. Thing is prometeus said pipers (the whole piper brand) couldnt be spun. Which doesnt make sense.
I stated that there are restrictions to the 28 cos thats what i read. Im not familiarized with american regulations. Where I live spins are prohibited on any plane except authorized. I think it sucks, cos instruction doesnt involve spin practice, hence my intrest in watching this vid, to learn how to recover.
@pk5887 I agree. Here in Canada, all planes can be spun unless otherwise stated in the POH. To initiate: Apply Slow Flight Increase pitch Full stall Apply hard left rudder (easier for first few times than right) To recover: Engine to idle. Apply opposite rudder to direction of spin. (you are rotating clockwise = left, counter = right) In the vid, he applied right rudder to recover. When the spinning halts, even out rudder control. Gently pull back on the control column. Ease the power up.
PA28 is a series, and yes, some of that series cannot spin.
Easy examples: PA28-140 Cherokee CAN spin.
PA28-161 Warrior is not legally allowed to, because the bigger, thicker and more efficient wings are "Too Stable" for spins. The plane will naturally try to correct the spin itself with it's more "efficient" wings (since spins are unnatural) and by bringing its nose up BEFORE the rudders are applied, it will inherently cause a flat spin, which is extremely dangerous. (See Top Gun)
I don't know where you learned to fly but from the undereducated comments you are posting it seems like you learned to fly on Flight Sim X or something.
You sir, are a retard. A SINGLE rotation qualifies as a spin.
You must be a cessna fanboy or a total newbie to aviation, because everyone knows MOST pipers will spin. Some flat spin and are dangerous, but MOST will spin correctly.
Do you even know how to apply a spin?
If you don't, then you can't say you have.
I've done SEVEN rotations in a 1978 Piper Cherokee PA28-140.
In fact, any aircraft can spin. But some are illegal spins. A hanglider could spin if he so wanted to.
@DJK290 Easy on the kid. Hes new to flying so he folows his instructors advice fully, which is ok.
Problem is that sometimes instructors folklorize stuff leading to misinformation and myths. As a matter of fact i almost failed my IFR exam cos my instructor told me something the inspector didnt agree with. Word of advice, prometeus, if you have a doubt dont ask a cfi. Ask 3 cfis. And read the regulations. If you aim to commercial flight youll be a pro sooner than expected.
Spins are seriously one of the scariest looking, but easiest maneouvers to recover from. Downward Spirals are more sneaky but more dangerous and more difficult to detect.
@DJK290 Well ive been watching a couple of vids and it doesnt look that hard to get out of a spin. Simply wat u said.
Problem with Tomahawks is not spin maneuvers, but entring unwillingly in spins. Plane was designed to enter easily in spin, i read. Other day here some kid got killed cos he took of, made a steep turn at low airspeed, stalled, spinned, and crshed flat cos he didnt have height to recover. in a 38 dont steep turn if ur slow. it can enter spin and kill you.
@angryprometeus You are ridiculous. Piper's spin, and the PA38 enters one very easily. It's reknowned for it. It also gets out easily, if you apply correct rudder. 3 rotations for a normal spin, he does 2.5 here.
You'll get yourself killed. FAA spin testing was made on a preproduction model, then they altered wing structure by significantly reducing number of ribs and reducing weight of a wing spar, wich reduced wing's rigidity, that is why Pa38 became upredictable in stall and spin.
@pesfrdaman I've spun 3 different Tomahawks with no unusual spin characteristics at all. It's quick but not as quick as a Pitts. It will do a real stall and a real, honest, recoverable spin. make sure w&b is right! Spin a Glasair, Lancair, or Cirrus and THAT may kill you.
Hi all, I own one and I love it and have over 400 takeoff-and-landings in it. I have stall/spun a 150 but not the p-38. This video is a eyeopener because the aircraft goes inverted over the top; a 150 don't do that. The video aircraft let go really fast ; 150 don't do that. The laminar flow wing is probably the difference. There are old pilots and bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots. 007 Wingman.
More on spins and the Big Three (Cessna, Piper, Beech) trainers. Beech Skipper- will enter spin power off, but to get a good entry you need to go into it fully cross-controlled. Will fly itself out. Cessna 152- for me, I could get a good spin entry only if I had some power and cross controlled at stall break. Will fly itself out. Ranking spin characteristics of the Big 3 trainers: Number 1, hands down, Piper Tomahawk, No. 2, Beech Skipper, No. 3, C-150/152, (and C-140).
Since the wing is stalled, the ailerons don't do anything, and you don't use them in spin recovery. Opposite rudder to stop the rotation, push the yoke forward to start flying again, fly out of the dive.
Fine video of a great, misunderstood airplane. I spun the pre-1983 stall-strip mod- no problems, no worries. Went on to solo and lived to tell about it. Then went on to fly other misunderstood but nevertheless great birds- among them the V35B Bonanza and Mitsubishi MU-2P. You naysayers don't know what you're missing.
Great spin video, decent quality and it really captures the feeling of this maneouver. I'm learning on these planes and their tendency to go from a power on stall to a spin is quite something.
I instruct on the PA38. For those of you who claim the PA38 is not allowed to spin... you're wrong. For those of you who claim spinning a Tomahwawk is dangerous... you're right... spinning any aircraft is dangerous, thats why you make sure you have plenty of height and use the CORRECT technique fropm the POH, the PA38 spins conventionally but unlike the C150/152 will not recover without the correct control applications. Exactly what it was designed to do.
I trained in a T-hawk back in the day. No doubt a spin in this aircraft gets your attention! Especially if you look over your shoulder at the tail. Yikes!
yes that's correct.cmh747....the problem was with the tomahawk mark 1...and as i read i an article the accident with the spip cause sometimes by the inpatient of the pilot to recover from the spin and not enough rudder and throttle help...also the spin is a must before you go solo on a glider...
Spinning tomahawk is perfectly fine, I don't know what you guys are talking about, there was an AD decades ago to add stall strips to the wings. Me and my instructor did multiple spins the other day and the plane entered/exited the spin perfectly. Check my videos I posted our spin yesterday.
hi guys..well spinning in pa38 is forbidden because of the structure of the tail and because is more difficult to get out...there is no problem recovering out of a spin if you follow the right procedure and timing...and stalling and incipient spin is not forbiden is a must for ppl training
Low wing and 'T' tail configuration during a high angle of attack will make the tail stall first because of the dirty air off the wing. Don't spin/stall PA-38's!
By the tail i presume you must mean the horizontal stabiliser which provides a down force in flight. Therefore if the stabiliser were to stall first the nose would drop the, breaking any stall that might be present on the wing. no stall. no spin simple fact.
Maybe you've got confused between this and the deep stall which can affect swept wing, T-Tailed jet aircraft
You really should check your facts or at least get the terminology right before you start spouting nonsense like that!
@gerardo332g1 Here we go!!!! A 20 year old El Salvadore CAPTAIN of an A321... Uh huh... Traumahawks are flying coffins and anyone with enough fly-time will tell you they are heaps of shit that LOVE to flat spin and fall out of the sky.. One of the ONLY single engine airplanes in existence with a limited spar life. You are a poser dude and just because we've shipped as many of the heaps to El Salvadore as we could doesnt make them good airplanes.
spinning a PA38 is dangerous in fact the operations manual says spins prohibited in this aircraft. during initial certification the tail come off and test pilots had parachute out. the aircraft is now over 30years old expoliation corrosion is a big problem in older airccraft I would never attempt this manouver in an ageing aeroplane. I have won flying competitions on type 26 years ago. We never did spins even when the aircraft was new. NOT RECOMMENDED!!!
HA! This piece of shit is a friggin' flyin' coffin that has killed several people!!
In over 27 years and 7000+ hours of flying, I wouldn't even go so far as to wipe my ass with a Piper PA-38! Piper made some great airplanes but this has to be about the biggest piece of shit they ever produced! They gave it the nickname "traumahawk"...no wonder you can buy them dirt cheap nowadays!
Sorry if I offend all you PA-38 enthusiasts I just don't care for how they handle!
The end of that aeronautical project was due to the behaviour of the airplane during the recovery from the spin.
Probably the maneuver doesn't consist only of adding a boot full of opposite rudder. Its handbook minimized the thing, and after two lethal accidents its reputation was literally destroyed, decreed the immediate discontinuation of its production, after very few years since the beginning. Nowadays its price on the second hand marketd is generally low.
Read that back and see if you can tell me that sentence makes any sense at all!
Production was stopped around about the same time as the C150/152 series of trainers and my understanding is that it had more to do with both companies covering their backsides legally by leaving the trraining a/c market.
For my single engine land private certificate, I trained mostly in C-152's and Tomahawks. (early 80's) I use to do spins in the Tomahawk all the time, however, I remember sometime after getting my airman certificate, seeing a placard on a Tomahawk's instrument panel that stated spins were forbidden. I asked an instructor at the FBO about it, and he informed me that they were banned due to some not being able to get out of the spin. (Not good!) I never had a problem getting out of them, ThankGod
Folks who feel iike this... Get over your fear or get out of flying. Aircraft rotate about their center of mass- completely. Deal with it. Learn to love it.... or leave it.
How do you get out of a spin in a Tomahawk? I've heard it's not like a C-172 where you can basically let go of the yolk (or at least return it to neutral), and I've also heard it's a dangerous airplane to fly.
However, I've also heard someone else say that it's perfectly safe to fly as long as the pilot is familiar with the aircraft and knows what they're doing.
I had a chuckle over the Tomahawk I and II differences. Completely ill informed. Have a look at the IPC sometime and work it out for yourself. I will give you a clue, heating and ventilating section.
You do know the Tomahawk produces more power than the similar engine in the C152, Have a look at the TCDS for the two types..
Guess which one has to fly at reduced rpm..
For those that have stated that they like the machines, guess what... you are not alone.
Sorry guys, some of these comments on the Tomahawk are just laughable.
Lots of hearsay with very little fact...
Repeat bar talk at your risk, at least do a little research before you prattle on.
I am an A&P, IA and own and fly several of these machines.
The additional stall strip was fitted on ALL aircraft as an AD in 1983. Most stories getting around refer to to the pre-mod state. You would think that after 25 years the gossip machine might correct itself, apparently not.
I got my license in a 172. I rented a hawk at one of the local airports because it was cheaper to rent at $89 an hour. Flew it 4 times. I don't like the hawk very much, it's an ok airplane but I will stick with the 172.
ooook thats cool men, i fly in one of those, but i never did something like that, cause all the instructors sayed to me: dont do strange thinks on this airplane, or you will be death for lunch... really sad... but nice aircraft to learn how to fly. greetings!!
I recognized the shoreline right off. Wish I had a nickel for every spin I've done in a traumahawk. come to think of it... Thats about as much as they payed me. ;oP I never had a problem spinning them. Just have to know what your doing that's all.
I recognized the shoreline right off. Wish I had a nickel for every spin I've done in a traumahawk. come to think of it... Thats about as much as they payed me. ;oP
I recognized the shoreline right off. Wish I had a nickel for every spin I've done in a traumahawk. come to think of it... Thats about as much as they payed me. ;oP
I trained in Tomahawks at the Windsor Flying Club back in the 90's when I lived in Canada. They do have a very aggressive stall, but; have had the AD's completed as was required years ago when the Tomahawk's had several tail separations during spins in the US. The Tomahawk actually was a fun little aircraft to fly. I have many great memories from the WFC and hope all is well there. (Never forget Troy Bowman. Hope his family is also doing well. His 310 went down during an event.)
I was teaching a student a left 40 deg. bank, no power stall at 2,300 feet agl. He was very timid in applying left rudder so I kicked it, maybe too much. He frozed and pulled on wheel. we flat spun until I elbowd his ribs. Sorry David Williams. Remember Linden?
Tomahawk 1 had VICIOUS stall characteristics, notably- the tail would make an 'oil canning' noise just prior to breaking hard right, with the subsequent plunge, which left you looking DOWN at the sun- as the spin began!
I've got about 200 hours in a PA38 but I haven't put one into a spin. I did some sping training in a C-140 and didn't have any problems. The C-140 recovered itself.
I like flying the PA38, and as someone noted a little earlier, they require a little more piloting than their Cesna couterparts.
I've done some training in the Tomahawk including a couple privates. I'm not sure if there is any spin danger in the plane but there are 3 unexplained accidents in which a student and instructor have spun into the ground, no one knows why.
If it was a Tomahawk 1 then the tails used to fall off. Tomahawks do have pretty harsh stalling and spin characteristics and instructors should be current on spinning them before teaching a spin.
I didn't find them to have a very interesting stall characteristic. However, all the Tomahawks in the U.S. have had stall strips installed so that probably tames them a bit. I usually teach in Mooneys. They often roll off to one side so it wasn't that surprising to me when the Tomahawk did that.
I have spun many a Tomahawk they require full rudder deflection and full back pressure to enter spin and if you let go of the controls they will recover themselves just not quite as readily as a 152. I believe that the 152 has a far better wing drop when using flap and if anyone wants to argue I'll have to get technical.
I train in the 172! Isn't the Tomahawk notorious for inadvertenly spinning in a normal stall situation, if when the stall is entered with the ball in the center?
When you enter a stall in the tomahawk unlike the 172 who's nose likes to drop, the tomahawk likes to have a wing drop which is the start of a spin. If you are on top of things you can control it with rudder pressure but if you let it go into a spin she likes to spin.
The Tomahawk does have a reputation for spinning which led to a few fatal flights so most now have stall strips fitted to the leading edge of the wing which reduces the chance of it happening.
Tomahawks do make you work for your supper which makes it easier to transition to larger planes. Stalls and spins are easily controlable... i think the fatal flights your on about are to do with people using ailerons instead of rudder and the tomahawk flipping onto its back.
I heard that the Tomahawk was intentionally designed to require a substantial, specific input from the pilot to correct a spin. This was done so that spin training would actually be feasable instead of having an airplane like a 152 that practically recovers itself. The tomahawks CG is farther back than normal so it tends to have a flatter spin thus it is substantially more dangerous to fly.
"Tomahawks do make you work for your supper which makes it easier to transition to larger planes."
Thats the reason why basically. The Tomahawk was created in mind for those who wanted to fly larger aircraft, thus making handling heavier, teaching you how to cope with extreme stalls.. of course also for people that want to learn stalls the proper way and be able to recover from extreme stalls the way 152's 172's dont allow.
No- not notorious for spinning in normal stall. One drill we did was to stall straight ahead, and rock the wings back and forth with coordinated rudder and aileron. The airplane remained fully under control, with tendency to spin at all. Spins in this airplane are entered by applying full rudder (neutral aileron) at stall break. She'll then spin nicely as demonstrated in this video. A 135 degree roll before the nose drops is normal for this airplane.
I like the mini windshield hot plate.
flyman1185 2 weeks ago
the one minute mark in this - a few years ago when i was working on my private in a t-hawk used to terrify me. Now as a CFI it makes me all...woohoo!. What a fun plane to fly!
heardworld 1 month ago in playlist Flight Training
I enjoyed doing spins in the Tomahawk. I think the instructor I had tried to make the spins more severe. He told me only to step on the rudder once the aircraft is shaking. This may have caused a more severe nose-down spin. He then also used to let me wait for three rotations before arresting the spin.
TheOtherNEO 1 month ago
i just did my spin training today in the pa38, scary stuff! But i prefer the tomahawk to a cessna 172 not sure why
TheWhiteOwl23 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
Tomahawk low speed + banked turn = deah by spin. Watch the angle of bank vs speed table on the manual and ull se what i mean. If i owned a flight school or plane rental id own 152s rather thank a tomahawk. I dont imply the pa38 is bad, im saying its a danger for the pilot trainee.
DreamVikings 8 months ago
I was quite concerned seeing how rapid the spin was from stall warning onset, until I realised that it was thrown into a spin by use of the controls for training purposes. Normally the stall warning comes on, the aircraft gets very sloppy, then the left wing eases over on the stall if you keep pulling back. Trainees need not be fearful of the Tomahawk's stall characteristics, just respectful.
positronengineering 9 months ago 3
i know u
PTNgamer 10 months ago
thats not you this is a scene from james bond
mrpink188 11 months ago
That wasn't much time between the stall warning and the stall!
iac249 1 year ago
pa-38.....nice :D i learned to fly in this plane... amazing
nathanwillis93 1 year ago
who cares you suck
angryprometeus 1 year ago
Good video. had a hard time explaining what a spin was to my girlfriend until I found this video. Decent quality, helmet-cam-ish view and not a lot of shaking.
DJK290 1 year ago
pk5887 1 year ago
@pk5887 PA-38 has a lower accident rate than the Cessna's though.
blueb0g 1 year ago
@blueb0g Hmm no reason to doubt u. Like to see source tho. Still there are lots more cessnas (Are we talking 150/2 or 172?) so probably thats the reason more get accident.
Anyway id rather a 152 than a pa38 cos it has the same engine but better glide, much less stall speed, doesnt spin so easily, has one tank selector (selector on tommies had killed ppl), and a lot of safety benefits and from my POV safety is first, specially in trainers.
pk5887 1 year ago
dude,piper aircraft arent certified for spins because they CANNOT recover from them
angryprometeus 1 year ago
@angryprometeus
Who the hell told u that
Cos I read the Tomahawk was designed with intentional spinning practice in mind, hence the easyness with which it can enter spin.
pk5887 1 year ago
@pk5887 hmmm how about a cfi mutherfucker
angryprometeus 1 year ago
Comment removed
pk5887 1 year ago
@angryprometeus Sure your CFI meant PA-28. That plane cant be spun by regulation.
The 38 "is approved for intentional spinning as long as the flaps are retracted"
POH page 4-24... mutherfucker
pk5887 1 year ago
@pk5887
The PA28-140 can be spun.
There are a few in that series that can. The PA-28-161 can't, however, it tends to flat spin, and regulation states it is not legal.
If I misunderstood your comment, I apologize, but I've done spins in a couple different PA28's.
DJK290 1 year ago
@DJK290 No bro you didnt misunderstood me. Thing is prometeus said pipers (the whole piper brand) couldnt be spun. Which doesnt make sense.
I stated that there are restrictions to the 28 cos thats what i read. Im not familiarized with american regulations. Where I live spins are prohibited on any plane except authorized. I think it sucks, cos instruction doesnt involve spin practice, hence my intrest in watching this vid, to learn how to recover.
pk5887 1 year ago
DJK290 1 year ago
@pk5887
PA28 is a series, and yes, some of that series cannot spin.
Easy examples: PA28-140 Cherokee CAN spin.
PA28-161 Warrior is not legally allowed to, because the bigger, thicker and more efficient wings are "Too Stable" for spins. The plane will naturally try to correct the spin itself with it's more "efficient" wings (since spins are unnatural) and by bringing its nose up BEFORE the rudders are applied, it will inherently cause a flat spin, which is extremely dangerous. (See Top Gun)
DJK290 1 year ago
@angryprometeus
Dude, the PA28-140 Cherokee can spin. The PA28-161 Warrior can't.
The Tomahawk, the Archer and the Arrow can all spin. The Warrior and a couple of others aren't certified.
I dunno what year aircraft and POH you are looking at, but my piper is a 1985 Piper Archer III and it is legal.
DJK290 1 year ago
@DJK290 oh save it, that wasnt even a spin
angryprometeus 1 year ago
@angryprometeus
Uh, by definition, yes, it was.
I don't know where you learned to fly but from the undereducated comments you are posting it seems like you learned to fly on Flight Sim X or something.
DJK290 1 year ago
@DJK290 whats it to you any way,you dont sound like a pilot, you sound like an idiot,btw i learn to fly at kbvs
angryprometeus 1 year ago
@angryprometeus
Nothing to me, just wondering what school is so terrible it fills its student's heads with nonsense.
I should have guessed you were just a student.
I don't sound like a pilot? Pilot's don't sound any different than normal people, smartass.
But as a student, you wouldn't know that, would you.
Your mininformation is probably due to you attending an American flight school.
MOST PA28s are capable of spins. Whoever told you otherwise is a fucking moron.
DJK290 1 year ago
@angryprometeus
Furthermore, if you would like to show us YOUR version of a spin, I'd like to see it.
Because if you knew anything about flying, you wouldn't be disputing that this is a spin.
Have you ever even done one?
DJK290 1 year ago
@DJK290 thats not a spin,he did like two rotations,you cannot enter a spin in a piper
angryprometeus 1 year ago
@angryprometeus
You sir, are a retard. A SINGLE rotation qualifies as a spin.
You must be a cessna fanboy or a total newbie to aviation, because everyone knows MOST pipers will spin. Some flat spin and are dangerous, but MOST will spin correctly.
Do you even know how to apply a spin?
If you don't, then you can't say you have.
I've done SEVEN rotations in a 1978 Piper Cherokee PA28-140.
In fact, any aircraft can spin. But some are illegal spins. A hanglider could spin if he so wanted to.
DJK290 1 year ago
@DJK290 Easy on the kid. Hes new to flying so he folows his instructors advice fully, which is ok.
Problem is that sometimes instructors folklorize stuff leading to misinformation and myths. As a matter of fact i almost failed my IFR exam cos my instructor told me something the inspector didnt agree with. Word of advice, prometeus, if you have a doubt dont ask a cfi. Ask 3 cfis. And read the regulations. If you aim to commercial flight youll be a pro sooner than expected.
pk5887 1 year ago
@pk5887
Spins are seriously one of the scariest looking, but easiest maneouvers to recover from. Downward Spirals are more sneaky but more dangerous and more difficult to detect.
DJK290 1 year ago
@DJK290 Well ive been watching a couple of vids and it doesnt look that hard to get out of a spin. Simply wat u said.
Problem with Tomahawks is not spin maneuvers, but entring unwillingly in spins. Plane was designed to enter easily in spin, i read. Other day here some kid got killed cos he took of, made a steep turn at low airspeed, stalled, spinned, and crshed flat cos he didnt have height to recover. in a 38 dont steep turn if ur slow. it can enter spin and kill you.
pk5887 1 year ago
@pk5887
In a climb you should never exceed a bank of 15-20 degrees. You're playing with fire if you do.
1.) Always use FULL power in the climb, and
2.) Make sure your bank doesnt exceed 15-20 degrees.
DJK290 1 year ago
@angryprometeus You are ridiculous. Piper's spin, and the PA38 enters one very easily. It's reknowned for it. It also gets out easily, if you apply correct rudder. 3 rotations for a normal spin, he does 2.5 here.
blueb0g 1 year ago
@blueb0g am i,no loser
angryprometeus 1 year ago
@blueb0g at least i aint cheap i fly a cessna 172,which can actually recover from it easily
angryprometeus 1 year ago
Are tomahawks not supposed to be very dangerous to spin in? Isn't this the type that has "kill" in its nickname?
jmillski1 1 year ago
This is not a joke.
Many experimented pilots make 1000 spins and nothing happened, but you dont have play with lucky
leonegro19 1 year ago
Love is a PA-38 Tommy
a8127 1 year ago
You'll get yourself killed. FAA spin testing was made on a preproduction model, then they altered wing structure by significantly reducing number of ribs and reducing weight of a wing spar, wich reduced wing's rigidity, that is why Pa38 became upredictable in stall and spin.
pesfrdaman 1 year ago
@pesfrdaman I've spun 3 different Tomahawks with no unusual spin characteristics at all. It's quick but not as quick as a Pitts. It will do a real stall and a real, honest, recoverable spin. make sure w&b is right! Spin a Glasair, Lancair, or Cirrus and THAT may kill you.
pdutube 1 year ago
que sucidas
leofrantom 1 year ago
se me cerro el orto!!.. muy bueno!
Marianothegreat 2 years ago
power off, speed back to 60 knots, then simultaneously pull the elevator back to your chest and kick full left (or right) rudder. Enjoy.
traumahawk1973 2 years ago
Beatuiful! The Tomahawk is harder to spin than a 150, too! C-150 = PLACARDED AGAINST SPINS WITH ANY FLAPS EXTENDED!
Crashman2 2 years ago
@Crashman2 You should not spin any aircraft with flap down, even a 150/152 will not recover with flap down easily or at all
kiwipilot84 1 year ago
Right rudder... right rudder! Nice job recovering.
ftp2leta 2 years ago
Hi all, I own one and I love it and have over 400 takeoff-and-landings in it. I have stall/spun a 150 but not the p-38. This video is a eyeopener because the aircraft goes inverted over the top; a 150 don't do that. The video aircraft let go really fast ; 150 don't do that. The laminar flow wing is probably the difference. There are old pilots and bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots. 007 Wingman.
007wingman 2 years ago
More on spins and the Big Three (Cessna, Piper, Beech) trainers. Beech Skipper- will enter spin power off, but to get a good entry you need to go into it fully cross-controlled. Will fly itself out. Cessna 152- for me, I could get a good spin entry only if I had some power and cross controlled at stall break. Will fly itself out. Ranking spin characteristics of the Big 3 trainers: Number 1, hands down, Piper Tomahawk, No. 2, Beech Skipper, No. 3, C-150/152, (and C-140).
wtcirrus 2 years ago
The recovery technique certainly includes opposite rudder.
But I can't guess much for what concerns the rest:
-neutral elevator and pro-spin ailerons?
-elevator to break the stall (forward) and neutral or anti-spin ailerons?
What does the dedicated manual say?
stefanorso 2 years ago
Since the wing is stalled, the ailerons don't do anything, and you don't use them in spin recovery. Opposite rudder to stop the rotation, push the yoke forward to start flying again, fly out of the dive.
I did spins in a Cherokee 140 yesterday. Whee!
marsgal42 1 year ago
Fine video of a great, misunderstood airplane. I spun the pre-1983 stall-strip mod- no problems, no worries. Went on to solo and lived to tell about it. Then went on to fly other misunderstood but nevertheless great birds- among them the V35B Bonanza and Mitsubishi MU-2P. You naysayers don't know what you're missing.
wtcirrus 2 years ago
Great spin video, decent quality and it really captures the feeling of this maneouver. I'm learning on these planes and their tendency to go from a power on stall to a spin is quite something.
DSB1234567890 2 years ago
dude you have serious balls...I'd be nervous even coming in on final in this bird for fear of stalling....5 stars
manifestgtr 2 years ago
Then obviously you have very little abiltiy and would be dangerous in any aircraft.
freon1978 2 years ago
haha calm down there little guy...I was just trying to prove a point
manifestgtr 2 years ago
this is the only Greener fuel effecient plane that I know, so whare can you get a Tomahawk at?
sideslide23 2 years ago
I took my Instrument Rating on it. On a fast speed ILS it fishtails (just let it do it, don't try to fight it)
I also did my CFI and spins on it in 1985. I owned two of them. Just respect its traits and enjoy the nicer ride than a slower C-152, etc.
CFITOMAHAWK2 2 years ago
Then they are both muppets.
freon1978 2 years ago
I instruct on the PA38. For those of you who claim the PA38 is not allowed to spin... you're wrong. For those of you who claim spinning a Tomahwawk is dangerous... you're right... spinning any aircraft is dangerous, thats why you make sure you have plenty of height and use the CORRECT technique fropm the POH, the PA38 spins conventionally but unlike the C150/152 will not recover without the correct control applications. Exactly what it was designed to do.
freon1978 2 years ago 15
Completely correct
cmh747 2 years ago
i agree totaly with you
RinkyWinkleton 2 years ago
that's exactly what my instructor said ! the exact words but in french lol
charlieechovictor 2 years ago
@freon1978 Haha the PA38 is an amazing aircraft... Not sure why the call it the "traumahawk" I prefer it to a C150 because its so much more lively!
bootsonbeaches 1 year ago
@freon1978 Odd question, but when you are doing medium turns in these do you use the engine cowling or the dash for refencing?
apc467 1 year ago
@apc467 the dash but its personal preference really
freon1978 5 months ago
there should be a clunker program for these airplanes
MetaView7 2 years ago
I trained in a T-hawk back in the day. No doubt a spin in this aircraft gets your attention! Especially if you look over your shoulder at the tail. Yikes!
MrDiesel6 2 years ago
yes that's correct.cmh747....the problem was with the tomahawk mark 1...and as i read i an article the accident with the spip cause sometimes by the inpatient of the pilot to recover from the spin and not enough rudder and throttle help...also the spin is a must before you go solo on a glider...
KERVERAS 2 years ago
Spinning tomahawk is perfectly fine, I don't know what you guys are talking about, there was an AD decades ago to add stall strips to the wings. Me and my instructor did multiple spins the other day and the plane entered/exited the spin perfectly. Check my videos I posted our spin yesterday.
cmh747 2 years ago 3
hi guys..well spinning in pa38 is forbidden because of the structure of the tail and because is more difficult to get out...there is no problem recovering out of a spin if you follow the right procedure and timing...and stalling and incipient spin is not forbiden is a must for ppl training
KERVERAS 2 years ago
i got goosebumps just watching this.. can i expect another video this time from a fully developed spin? ;-)
slickshoesken 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
YIKES!!!!!!!!! Spinning a Traumahawk is SUICIDE mate!!! Spins are FORBIDDEN for a reason...
texNoz 2 years ago
Low wing and 'T' tail configuration during a high angle of attack will make the tail stall first because of the dirty air off the wing. Don't spin/stall PA-38's!
peanuts2105 2 years ago
By the tail i presume you must mean the horizontal stabiliser which provides a down force in flight. Therefore if the stabiliser were to stall first the nose would drop the, breaking any stall that might be present on the wing. no stall. no spin simple fact.
Maybe you've got confused between this and the deep stall which can affect swept wing, T-Tailed jet aircraft
You really should check your facts or at least get the terminology right before you start spouting nonsense like that!
freon1978 2 years ago
From PA-38 I am now Captain of a A321 and i Love more the PA-38 rather than the A321.
gerardo332g1 2 years ago 15
Comment removed
LukeEvans26 2 years ago
@gerardo332g1 Here we go!!!! A 20 year old El Salvadore CAPTAIN of an A321... Uh huh... Traumahawks are flying coffins and anyone with enough fly-time will tell you they are heaps of shit that LOVE to flat spin and fall out of the sky.. One of the ONLY single engine airplanes in existence with a limited spar life. You are a poser dude and just because we've shipped as many of the heaps to El Salvadore as we could doesnt make them good airplanes.
texNoz 2 years ago
@gerardo332g1 A321 alpha-floors and refuses to let you stall or spin? :?
emh0tep 1 year ago
spinning a PA38 is dangerous in fact the operations manual says spins prohibited in this aircraft. during initial certification the tail come off and test pilots had parachute out. the aircraft is now over 30years old expoliation corrosion is a big problem in older airccraft I would never attempt this manouver in an ageing aeroplane. I have won flying competitions on type 26 years ago. We never did spins even when the aircraft was new. NOT RECOMMENDED!!!
obbytay 2 years ago
i know the piper warrior also has spins and inverted spins prohibited. However, do u think it could pull through? I intend to do a cuban 8. Haha
madclown16 2 years ago
HA! This piece of shit is a friggin' flyin' coffin that has killed several people!!
In over 27 years and 7000+ hours of flying, I wouldn't even go so far as to wipe my ass with a Piper PA-38! Piper made some great airplanes but this has to be about the biggest piece of shit they ever produced! They gave it the nickname "traumahawk"...no wonder you can buy them dirt cheap nowadays!
Sorry if I offend all you PA-38 enthusiasts I just don't care for how they handle!
ryanspeed 2 years ago
The end of that aeronautical project was due to the behaviour of the airplane during the recovery from the spin.
Probably the maneuver doesn't consist only of adding a boot full of opposite rudder. Its handbook minimized the thing, and after two lethal accidents its reputation was literally destroyed, decreed the immediate discontinuation of its production, after very few years since the beginning. Nowadays its price on the second hand marketd is generally low.
stefanorso 2 years ago
Read that back and see if you can tell me that sentence makes any sense at all!
Production was stopped around about the same time as the C150/152 series of trainers and my understanding is that it had more to do with both companies covering their backsides legally by leaving the trraining a/c market.
freon1978 2 years ago
Awesome dude! I've got some hours on a PA38, but the FBO doesn't allow spin training.
Tomahawk674 2 years ago
i learned to fly in the tomakawk..loved to spion in it!!!!
goodfit1 2 years ago
For my single engine land private certificate, I trained mostly in C-152's and Tomahawks. (early 80's) I use to do spins in the Tomahawk all the time, however, I remember sometime after getting my airman certificate, seeing a placard on a Tomahawk's instrument panel that stated spins were forbidden. I asked an instructor at the FBO about it, and he informed me that they were banned due to some not being able to get out of the spin. (Not good!) I never had a problem getting out of them, ThankGod
Ellexis77 2 years ago
Did that in a C152. Scariest moment of my life.
savethedeveloper 3 years ago
Folks who feel iike this... Get over your fear or get out of flying. Aircraft rotate about their center of mass- completely. Deal with it. Learn to love it.... or leave it.
wtcirrus 2 years ago
Meeean haha thatz awsum,
Havnt done a stall like that b4....mite try it
Madamole 3 years ago
I've been flying the Tomahawk 2 for some years now, and could never imagine going back to a Cessna. Fantastic plane to fly!
totemtower 3 years ago
How do you get out of a spin in a Tomahawk? I've heard it's not like a C-172 where you can basically let go of the yolk (or at least return it to neutral), and I've also heard it's a dangerous airplane to fly.
However, I've also heard someone else say that it's perfectly safe to fly as long as the pilot is familiar with the aircraft and knows what they're doing.
GeneralSirDouglasMcA 3 years ago
according to barton ATC its not a good training aircraft but its good if your used to flying, and i agree
jb0831 2 years ago
I had a chuckle over the Tomahawk I and II differences. Completely ill informed. Have a look at the IPC sometime and work it out for yourself. I will give you a clue, heating and ventilating section.
You do know the Tomahawk produces more power than the similar engine in the C152, Have a look at the TCDS for the two types..
Guess which one has to fly at reduced rpm..
For those that have stated that they like the machines, guess what... you are not alone.
.
baronbeeza 3 years ago
Sorry guys, some of these comments on the Tomahawk are just laughable.
Lots of hearsay with very little fact...
Repeat bar talk at your risk, at least do a little research before you prattle on.
I am an A&P, IA and own and fly several of these machines.
The additional stall strip was fitted on ALL aircraft as an AD in 1983. Most stories getting around refer to to the pre-mod state. You would think that after 25 years the gossip machine might correct itself, apparently not.
baronbeeza 3 years ago 2
woo your brave to spin a traumahawk :) man i love em!
AMT2111 3 years ago
Really nice video!
I'm learning to fly in a Tomahawk,it's a nice aircraft.
davidkoster 3 years ago
hahhaha are you handicapped?
no jokes i love tommies.
darcyleetm 3 years ago
Certainly is a vicious spin in that bad boy
mjok2004 3 years ago
Dang! those are fun; however, i never spun in my trainer plane. I trained in a Socata TB-9 Tampico and spins were off limits! lol
Americanpilot1228 3 years ago
SON OF A BITCH MAN THAT IS SCARY!
neper1982 3 years ago
I have about 125 hours in Traumahawks. Never spun one and I'm here to talk about it.
ddoler 3 years ago
OOO GULF TANGO ZULU YANKEE im quessing ?
imckee 3 years ago
I got my license in a 172. I rented a hawk at one of the local airports because it was cheaper to rent at $89 an hour. Flew it 4 times. I don't like the hawk very much, it's an ok airplane but I will stick with the 172.
scupking 3 years ago
ooook thats cool men, i fly in one of those, but i never did something like that, cause all the instructors sayed to me: dont do strange thinks on this airplane, or you will be death for lunch... really sad... but nice aircraft to learn how to fly. greetings!!
italianflyboy 3 years ago
Wow, spins can be very tricky in the 'hawk, due to the t-tail.
My heart raced a bit to see that nose drop like that. :)
Arkham1010 3 years ago
cool! I used to instruct at the WFC in the 90's.
I recognized the shoreline right off. Wish I had a nickel for every spin I've done in a traumahawk. come to think of it... Thats about as much as they payed me. ;oP I never had a problem spinning them. Just have to know what your doing that's all.
And yes. I too remember Troy.
greybeardd 3 years ago
cool! I used to instruct at the WFC in the 90's.
I recognized the shoreline right off. Wish I had a nickel for every spin I've done in a traumahawk. come to think of it... Thats about as much as they payed me. ;oP
And yes. I too remember Troy.
greybeardd 3 years ago
cool! I used to instruct at the WFC in the 90's.
I recognized the shoreline right off. Wish I had a nickel for every spin I've done in a traumahawk. come to think of it... Thats about as much as they payed me. ;oP
And yes. I too remember Troy.
greybeardd 3 years ago
I trained in Tomahawks at the Windsor Flying Club back in the 90's when I lived in Canada. They do have a very aggressive stall, but; have had the AD's completed as was required years ago when the Tomahawk's had several tail separations during spins in the US. The Tomahawk actually was a fun little aircraft to fly. I have many great memories from the WFC and hope all is well there. (Never forget Troy Bowman. Hope his family is also doing well. His 310 went down during an event.)
FireSarge30 4 years ago
I was teaching a student a left 40 deg. bank, no power stall at 2,300 feet agl. He was very timid in applying left rudder so I kicked it, maybe too much. He frozed and pulled on wheel. we flat spun until I elbowd his ribs. Sorry David Williams. Remember Linden?
CFITOMAHAWK2 4 years ago
Why the hell would you want to be teaching a student that? never mind doing at at such a low height!
freon1978 2 years ago
Low height? They seem to have more than enough altitude to me. Were you expecting them to be dodging SR-71s or something?
-Robert, CFII
RobertGary1 2 years ago
Avoid them. I used to teach them until I got into a flat spin. Recovered at 300 feet agl and wiser.
CFITOMAHAWK2 4 years ago
how many feet did you start the spin at?
rockanthonycoco 4 years ago
Great recovery.
leonper 4 years ago
Dang, that was better than my own spin training, we only just went past 90 degrees... Nice recovery as well...
GlobalFilmmaker 4 years ago
Man that traumahawk will spin like it is its job.
blakman7 4 years ago
They were designed with aggressive stall spin characteristics!
mole646 4 years ago
I could have sworn I seen this plane for sale on ebay!
mole646 4 years ago
Tomahawk 1 had VICIOUS stall characteristics, notably- the tail would make an 'oil canning' noise just prior to breaking hard right, with the subsequent plunge, which left you looking DOWN at the sun- as the spin began!
TISAC1 4 years ago
I've got about 200 hours in a PA38 but I haven't put one into a spin. I did some sping training in a C-140 and didn't have any problems. The C-140 recovered itself.
I like flying the PA38, and as someone noted a little earlier, they require a little more piloting than their Cesna couterparts.
chipsanford 4 years ago
wanna see something really cool in a Tramahawk?...turn back and look at the tail right before the stall break....skeery...lmao
mattf49006 4 years ago
I've done some training in the Tomahawk including a couple privates. I'm not sure if there is any spin danger in the plane but there are 3 unexplained accidents in which a student and instructor have spun into the ground, no one knows why.
RobertGary1 4 years ago
If it was a Tomahawk 1 then the tails used to fall off. Tomahawks do have pretty harsh stalling and spin characteristics and instructors should be current on spinning them before teaching a spin.
JourneymanStudios 4 years ago
I didn't find them to have a very interesting stall characteristic. However, all the Tomahawks in the U.S. have had stall strips installed so that probably tames them a bit. I usually teach in Mooneys. They often roll off to one side so it wasn't that surprising to me when the Tomahawk did that.
RobertGary1 4 years ago
Sounds like your on about the Tomahawk One
JourneymanStudios 4 years ago
say it again bitch!!
ausgezeichnicht 4 years ago
I have spun many a Tomahawk they require full rudder deflection and full back pressure to enter spin and if you let go of the controls they will recover themselves just not quite as readily as a 152. I believe that the 152 has a far better wing drop when using flap and if anyone wants to argue I'll have to get technical.
captsamb58 4 years ago 2
AWESOME!!!!!! keep the videos coming, this is what Youtube is about!
1realpilot 4 years ago
The tomahawk is cheap and dangerous if you are not paying attention...
Icarus08854 4 years ago
I fly a Tomahawk, and lets just say they like to spin more than Cessna's. Great Aircraft!!
jonburf 4 years ago
How much altitude did you lose?
soulprovider915 4 years ago
I'm sorry i really don't remember, it varied on when my instructor wanted to recover from the spin.
rockanthonycoco 4 years ago
I train in the 172! Isn't the Tomahawk notorious for inadvertenly spinning in a normal stall situation, if when the stall is entered with the ball in the center?
mole646 4 years ago
When you enter a stall in the tomahawk unlike the 172 who's nose likes to drop, the tomahawk likes to have a wing drop which is the start of a spin. If you are on top of things you can control it with rudder pressure but if you let it go into a spin she likes to spin.
rockanthonycoco 4 years ago
The Tomahawk does have a reputation for spinning which led to a few fatal flights so most now have stall strips fitted to the leading edge of the wing which reduces the chance of it happening.
I am doing my training in a Tomahawk
Doyley3731 4 years ago
Tomahawks do make you work for your supper which makes it easier to transition to larger planes. Stalls and spins are easily controlable... i think the fatal flights your on about are to do with people using ailerons instead of rudder and the tomahawk flipping onto its back.
JourneymanStudios 4 years ago
I heard that the Tomahawk was intentionally designed to require a substantial, specific input from the pilot to correct a spin. This was done so that spin training would actually be feasable instead of having an airplane like a 152 that practically recovers itself. The tomahawks CG is farther back than normal so it tends to have a flatter spin thus it is substantially more dangerous to fly.
TheTense 4 years ago
Correct. As this statement says
"Tomahawks do make you work for your supper which makes it easier to transition to larger planes."
Thats the reason why basically. The Tomahawk was created in mind for those who wanted to fly larger aircraft, thus making handling heavier, teaching you how to cope with extreme stalls.. of course also for people that want to learn stalls the proper way and be able to recover from extreme stalls the way 152's 172's dont allow.
JourneymanStudios 4 years ago
No- not notorious for spinning in normal stall. One drill we did was to stall straight ahead, and rock the wings back and forth with coordinated rudder and aileron. The airplane remained fully under control, with tendency to spin at all. Spins in this airplane are entered by applying full rudder (neutral aileron) at stall break. She'll then spin nicely as demonstrated in this video. A 135 degree roll before the nose drops is normal for this airplane.
wtcirrus 2 years ago
I meant to say: with NO tendency to spin at all.
wtcirrus 2 years ago
nice vid
t4to 4 years ago