That HannibalBarrca guy is a silly fellow. It would appear he is incapable of attacking actual positions the 'race realists' hold more often than straw men. Regardless of how stupid some might think these people are, you've got to at least actually engage their arguments rather than half-assed caricatures and then patting yourself on the back for demolishing some easy target you created. I don't entirely agree with race realists, but if you want to appear as anything more than a half-wit...
@doucher337 Considering that in so many of his videos against their position he actually brings up the relevant scientific literature on the subject which disproves the points these "race realists" make, I have to wonder if you actually watched these videos with any sort of understanding, or are being intellectually dishonest here. Bringing up journals and reports that debunk the stuff in works like The Bell Curve is not a straw man tactic, and you should know better than to insinuate that.
We say races can't exist because there is no clear lines of demarcation so no 'racial' group can accurately be identified as being unique from all others to universal in their traits among themselves.
I loved fringeelements response to that. He suggested there is no clear line of demarcation between male & female either & offered himself up as an example saying he had an androgynous face. If he cares enough about race to call himself a lady man, wow, THAT'S commitment to stupidity!
@TheNarcMan You know, the thing that bothers me about arguing the differences or lack thereof between males and females to try to prove these people's points is that differences between genders have little to nothing to do with differences between species.Unless I'm missing something here (which is possible), it's an apples to oranges comparison. Besides, the genetic factors that cause gender difference are greater than those that cause so called racial differences anyway.
Yeah I just loved how he admitted he's a girly man to try and make his point XD
HeyRuka made the same mistake. She categorically stated there are more differences between the races than there are between the genders... oh dear. I guess at the end of the day there's no arguing with people like that.
It's like prions that is very both a fun thing yet a horrifying thing to learn about. That also helps to at least the way I see it explain how a single cell could have evolved with natural processes. However it's scary as all damm hell because they are infectious agents that are smaller then a virus.
@HannibalBarca13 "he never commits to anything" I'm married. "He also never admits to fault" I've stolen a pack of gum before. "His five video response..." What the point of saying how many videos it was? Is that bad that there's five? "I had had it with him by then" no you didn't, you continued on. And even after we both said we're done you make another video.
You're not as bad as HB but your still presumptuous when it comes to me. Here's the thing, you want to reject the notion of any biological classification below that of Species that's fine. Of course that doesn't get you out of controversy as the human mind seems to also have a problem with biological classification from Race all the way up to Domain and even Life itself as far as what to put where. Here's a primer for ya "A Companion to the Philosophy of Biology" By Sarkar/Plutynski - Cheers!
@DiwataMan "you want to reject the notion of any biological classification below that of Species that's fine"
And you speak to me of presumptions.
I have no problem with a biological classification below species. But here's the problem: because of a lack of significant genetic difference, there is no way one can use race as a biological classification. This is why science is saying race is more of a cultural construct, not a scientific one. That's an important point you're not acknowledging.
@Swordsage That and people aren't dogs, they have a huge amount of genetic diversity where as people don't and in comparison to dogs we are all fucking our own kin. That's how you can get a 7 lb toy poodle and a grey wolf as the same species but we don't have a hominid species that is like us other then like Neanderthals which are all dead.
Yup, whenever a racetard uses the dog breed argument they've failed already. Breeds of dog were created in the last 10,000 years by humans with selective breeding. They dont represent the natural process of evolution any more than breeding human slaves leads you to a group of people that would have existed in nature. The real human 'races' are us (homo sapiens sapiens) & homo sapien neanderthalensis as you mentioned & maybe others like denisova hominin
@TheNarcMan You're an idiot on that for not understanding dog evolution. Dogs evolved because of peoples yes however it didn't first start with selective breeding it started because wolves that were more ok with people got an advantage because they were able to get more food that people threw away. The wolves that were more ok with people evolved into dogs yet they can still breed with wolves making them not a separate species. Also people are a domesticated species we evolved like dogs. ;-)
Artificial selection isn't evolution so no, they didn't "evolve" because of us. They were bred by us. It doesn't matter how it started, it just started. Then we bred them. Now they exist & it wasn't evolution.
"people are a domesticated species we evolved like dogs"
Domestication implies a intentionally domesticating agent. Or did we domesticate ourselves accidentally? Rhetorical question. I'm not going to argue semantics with someone like you.
@TheNarcMan "It doesn't matter how it started, it just started." Yes it does matter how it started because it shows that the variation was already present in wolves to be dogs. People don't have that genetic diversity which means we can't evolve into something different without us all evolving into something different.
"Or did we domesticate ourselves accidentally?" Yes we did, we are a social species and we domesticated ourselves that's why a baby just born can't survive on it's own. ;-P
"Yes it does matter how it started because it shows that the variation was already present in wolves to be dogs"
Our ability to domesticate a species has more to do with its intelligence, temperament & position on the food chain than genetic variety in its population. Don't expect friendly pet crocodiles any time soon.
"we domesticated ourselves"
Hmm. I woulda thought the accidental discovery of the einkorn wheat strain in Turkey 10,000 years ago led to agriculture & civilisation.
"you want to reject the notion of any biological classification below that of Species that's fine"
Actually humans are a biological classification below species, the sub species or sub category. We are homo sapiens sapiens. Evolutionary biology, not us, rejects the notion of a biological classification below the sub species. Are you going to change that? Why, to make statements about "race"? Then you're a racist. Will you classify races in all other sub species on the planet too?
I think all should watch this really interesting (lengthy I'll admit) interview. This is in regards to our minds changing and our chemicals in our brains altering due to the planetary alignment which will happen in 2012. This isn't about the rapture at all in case you're rolling your eyes. It really IS worth watching, and please get back to me and tell me what you think.
I realise the definition of ignorance before i type this (its not the same way i view it)
You my friend are NOT ignorant, now if you were to turn around and try to tell people that "this is how a harddrive works.." and then go on to explain it when being wrong, THEN you would be ignorant
The simple fact that you acknowledge that you dont know, means your unknowing not ignorant
Ignorance should be the intolerance of knowledge, not the lack there of
Lets take many african americans who compared to ppl in sub saharan africa are considerable light skined but have no caucasian or any european/ middle easter genetic contribution. this shows that within generation physical traits change and adapted to environment and many dont show up as new mutation in our genes rather many human share dark/skin gene straight/ curly/ nappy hair, and limb/torso propotions but dont showit(or show it) due to genetic concetration in populations
Culturally race is based how the subjective opinions of how physical appearances are judged. years ago irish and italians werent considered white. geneticly were are able to adapted the phyiscal traits of ppl of different ethnic back grounds given enuf time in their original living condition this is moot since technology renders physical adaptation unecessary and many adaptation we have are vestigal
Good thoughts. I'm a little more pessimistic on the causes. There is quite a bit of reactionary resentment to both the racism and the sexism thing going on in these discussions. It's not just "race seems real to me" but stuff like "black pride is ok why not white pride" etc etc. And because they cannot be at fault what we see in terms of gradients and ramifications in society must be natural. So poor folks deserved where they are and nothing can be done about that.
Excellent point about surgical scrub. It fucking blew my mind when I learned how short a time we've actually had "western" medicine that actually worked. For a few centuries western medicine was more likely to kill you than to cure you.
That HannibalBarrca guy is a silly fellow. It would appear he is incapable of attacking actual positions the 'race realists' hold more often than straw men. Regardless of how stupid some might think these people are, you've got to at least actually engage their arguments rather than half-assed caricatures and then patting yourself on the back for demolishing some easy target you created. I don't entirely agree with race realists, but if you want to appear as anything more than a half-wit...
doucher337 5 months ago
@doucher337 Considering that in so many of his videos against their position he actually brings up the relevant scientific literature on the subject which disproves the points these "race realists" make, I have to wonder if you actually watched these videos with any sort of understanding, or are being intellectually dishonest here. Bringing up journals and reports that debunk the stuff in works like The Bell Curve is not a straw man tactic, and you should know better than to insinuate that.
Swordsage 5 months ago
We say races can't exist because there is no clear lines of demarcation so no 'racial' group can accurately be identified as being unique from all others to universal in their traits among themselves.
I loved fringeelements response to that. He suggested there is no clear line of demarcation between male & female either & offered himself up as an example saying he had an androgynous face. If he cares enough about race to call himself a lady man, wow, THAT'S commitment to stupidity!
TheNarcMan 5 months ago
@TheNarcMan You know, the thing that bothers me about arguing the differences or lack thereof between males and females to try to prove these people's points is that differences between genders have little to nothing to do with differences between species.Unless I'm missing something here (which is possible), it's an apples to oranges comparison. Besides, the genetic factors that cause gender difference are greater than those that cause so called racial differences anyway.
Swordsage 5 months ago
@Swordsage
Yeah I just loved how he admitted he's a girly man to try and make his point XD
HeyRuka made the same mistake. She categorically stated there are more differences between the races than there are between the genders... oh dear. I guess at the end of the day there's no arguing with people like that.
TheNarcMan 5 months ago
It's like prions that is very both a fun thing yet a horrifying thing to learn about. That also helps to at least the way I see it explain how a single cell could have evolved with natural processes. However it's scary as all damm hell because they are infectious agents that are smaller then a virus.
MistressArte 5 months ago
@HannibalBarca13 "he never commits to anything" I'm married. "He also never admits to fault" I've stolen a pack of gum before. "His five video response..." What the point of saying how many videos it was? Is that bad that there's five? "I had had it with him by then" no you didn't, you continued on. And even after we both said we're done you make another video.
DiwataMan 5 months ago
You're not as bad as HB but your still presumptuous when it comes to me. Here's the thing, you want to reject the notion of any biological classification below that of Species that's fine. Of course that doesn't get you out of controversy as the human mind seems to also have a problem with biological classification from Race all the way up to Domain and even Life itself as far as what to put where. Here's a primer for ya "A Companion to the Philosophy of Biology" By Sarkar/Plutynski - Cheers!
DiwataMan 5 months ago
@DiwataMan "you want to reject the notion of any biological classification below that of Species that's fine"
And you speak to me of presumptions.
I have no problem with a biological classification below species. But here's the problem: because of a lack of significant genetic difference, there is no way one can use race as a biological classification. This is why science is saying race is more of a cultural construct, not a scientific one. That's an important point you're not acknowledging.
Swordsage 5 months ago
@Swordsage That and people aren't dogs, they have a huge amount of genetic diversity where as people don't and in comparison to dogs we are all fucking our own kin. That's how you can get a 7 lb toy poodle and a grey wolf as the same species but we don't have a hominid species that is like us other then like Neanderthals which are all dead.
MistressArte 5 months ago
@MistressArte
"That and people aren't dogs"
Yup, whenever a racetard uses the dog breed argument they've failed already. Breeds of dog were created in the last 10,000 years by humans with selective breeding. They dont represent the natural process of evolution any more than breeding human slaves leads you to a group of people that would have existed in nature. The real human 'races' are us (homo sapiens sapiens) & homo sapien neanderthalensis as you mentioned & maybe others like denisova hominin
TheNarcMan 5 months ago
@TheNarcMan You're an idiot on that for not understanding dog evolution. Dogs evolved because of peoples yes however it didn't first start with selective breeding it started because wolves that were more ok with people got an advantage because they were able to get more food that people threw away. The wolves that were more ok with people evolved into dogs yet they can still breed with wolves making them not a separate species. Also people are a domesticated species we evolved like dogs. ;-)
MistressArte 5 months ago
@MistressArte
"Dogs evolved because of peoples yes"
Artificial selection isn't evolution so no, they didn't "evolve" because of us. They were bred by us. It doesn't matter how it started, it just started. Then we bred them. Now they exist & it wasn't evolution.
"people are a domesticated species we evolved like dogs"
Domestication implies a intentionally domesticating agent. Or did we domesticate ourselves accidentally? Rhetorical question. I'm not going to argue semantics with someone like you.
TheNarcMan 5 months ago
@TheNarcMan "It doesn't matter how it started, it just started." Yes it does matter how it started because it shows that the variation was already present in wolves to be dogs. People don't have that genetic diversity which means we can't evolve into something different without us all evolving into something different.
"Or did we domesticate ourselves accidentally?" Yes we did, we are a social species and we domesticated ourselves that's why a baby just born can't survive on it's own. ;-P
MistressArte 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MistressArte
"Yes it does matter how it started because it shows that the variation was already present in wolves to be dogs"
Our ability to domesticate a species has more to do with its intelligence, temperament & position on the food chain than genetic variety in its population. Don't expect friendly pet crocodiles any time soon.
"we domesticated ourselves"
Hmm. I woulda thought the accidental discovery of the einkorn wheat strain in Turkey 10,000 years ago led to agriculture & civilisation.
TheNarcMan 5 months ago
@DiwataMan
"you want to reject the notion of any biological classification below that of Species that's fine"
Actually humans are a biological classification below species, the sub species or sub category. We are homo sapiens sapiens. Evolutionary biology, not us, rejects the notion of a biological classification below the sub species. Are you going to change that? Why, to make statements about "race"? Then you're a racist. Will you classify races in all other sub species on the planet too?
TheNarcMan 5 months ago
Old ideas have to die away with the old. You cant teach an old dog new tricks.
Domzdream 5 months ago
I think all should watch this really interesting (lengthy I'll admit) interview. This is in regards to our minds changing and our chemicals in our brains altering due to the planetary alignment which will happen in 2012. This isn't about the rapture at all in case you're rolling your eyes. It really IS worth watching, and please get back to me and tell me what you think.
watch?v=U_Gd9CZl8hM
Domzdream 5 months ago
I realise the definition of ignorance before i type this (its not the same way i view it)
You my friend are NOT ignorant, now if you were to turn around and try to tell people that "this is how a harddrive works.." and then go on to explain it when being wrong, THEN you would be ignorant
The simple fact that you acknowledge that you dont know, means your unknowing not ignorant
Ignorance should be the intolerance of knowledge, not the lack there of
(atleast in my book)
VegetaFH1 5 months ago
Can we all just drop these labels?
JustaEropeanGuy 5 months ago
@JustaEropeanGuy I know I would like to.
Swordsage 5 months ago
@JustaEropeanGuy I agree, let's start with dropping the labels; racist and sexist, if we do that HB won't have much to say to me.
DiwataMan 5 months ago
Lets take many african americans who compared to ppl in sub saharan africa are considerable light skined but have no caucasian or any european/ middle easter genetic contribution. this shows that within generation physical traits change and adapted to environment and many dont show up as new mutation in our genes rather many human share dark/skin gene straight/ curly/ nappy hair, and limb/torso propotions but dont showit(or show it) due to genetic concetration in populations
kaindrg 5 months ago
Culturally race is based how the subjective opinions of how physical appearances are judged. years ago irish and italians werent considered white. geneticly were are able to adapted the phyiscal traits of ppl of different ethnic back grounds given enuf time in their original living condition this is moot since technology renders physical adaptation unecessary and many adaptation we have are vestigal
kaindrg 5 months ago
Good thoughts. I'm a little more pessimistic on the causes. There is quite a bit of reactionary resentment to both the racism and the sexism thing going on in these discussions. It's not just "race seems real to me" but stuff like "black pride is ok why not white pride" etc etc. And because they cannot be at fault what we see in terms of gradients and ramifications in society must be natural. So poor folks deserved where they are and nothing can be done about that.
socrates856 5 months ago
discussed this in Cultural anthro begining of this semester. ethnocentrism is Blasphemy if Anthro was a religion
kaindrg 5 months ago
Excellent point about surgical scrub. It fucking blew my mind when I learned how short a time we've actually had "western" medicine that actually worked. For a few centuries western medicine was more likely to kill you than to cure you.
bamboo4tameshigiri 5 months ago