PREVIEW OF THE UPCOMING Vz58 ACCESSORIES PRODUCT REVIEW

[tzychess]

Does anyone know if this rifle accepts standard AK magazines, stocks, and pistol grips?

[weaponeer]

@tzychess - yes on the pistol grip, no on the stock or magazine

[OlenPredator]

It's not a czech version of AK. It is their (Czech) own construction and it's only look like AK-47

[weaponeer]

@OlenPredator - wrong, even a number of the parts are identical. The Czech's were world class designers, and under the control of the USSR who offered them the AK47, but the AK47 had far too many design faults. the Czech's were the only country the USSR allowed to use it's own rifle. the basic design of the AK they liked, but the stripped out most of the design faults such as the FCG, and the Piston (which chaned the bolt) and had a better rifle, but it was a year after the AKM. same with AK74

[edhieb]

@weaponeer Sorry, but which parts are the same? Even the magazines are different. It uses the same ammo, but that's about it. I think the front sight is interchangeable with an AK, but not the rear. And maybe the pistol grip and muzzle brake. The rest is completely different. It reminds me more of an SKS than an AK. A really cool looking, lighter, better made SKS. I own one.

[weaponeer]

@edhieb - rear sight spring, grip mount, barrel dimensions (not length), gas block design, front trunion design. What people wrongy state is the piston, and FCG is different, therefore its not based on the AK. But the fact is the Vz58 was an improved version of the AK47, which had significant problems with the FCG and firing out of battery before the AKM, so the Czechs replaced it with a better design (now used by Glock) as for the piston, that was a one of many design faults also corrected.

[edhieb]

@weaponeer Thanks. I wasn't arguing that the VZ was completely original. I just wanted clarification on your statement about the parts being "identical", as in interchangeable. I see the point you are trying to make, and I agree that the VZ-58 is derived from the AK-47, and an improvement on it, not an original design as others claim.

[weaponeer]

@edhieb - your one in a million.. lol I get attacked a lot for my comments on the AK47 vs Vz58

[edhieb]

@weaponeer The importance of the distinction for me is the fact that I'm Canadian. The AK47 and all weapons based on it, such as the AKM, SVD, MAK90, etc, are prohibited here. There are enough differences, between the AK47 and VZ58, that I can own the VZ58. So legally, in Canada, they are completely different. Which is fine with me, since I'd rather have a VZ58, anyway. But I'd love to get a Dragunov, too.

[weaponeer]

@edhieb - most of the Vz58 accessory manufactures are in Canada, mainly due to the popularity of the Vz58 up there. we cannot have the real Dragunov imported into the US anymore. some people buy the hunting version called the tiger, but it's WAY too expensive for a 2 to 4 MOA rifle. the PSL is just as good and much cheaper with the same accuracy.

[edhieb]

@weaponeer There are even adapters that allow the use of AR magazines, both 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm, for their respective types. One is polymer for 5.56, from Fab Arms I think, and the other is aluminum fro 7.62, from Brugger & Thomet. I got the B&T one. In Canada it allows us to use 10 round magazines from an XCR pistol in our unrestricted CZ858's. At least you can have a PSL and 30 round mags. But we don't have 922r to deal with.

[crazywolf426]

Its not czech version of ak, its czech made

[weaponeer]

@crazywolf426 - The Czech army used an entirely different gas system in 1952, and the USSR demanded they change calibers to the M43 7.62x39. so all current production rifles were Vz52/57 models, and Vz52's were all converted to 52/57 (57 being the year). the AK47 had too many design faults, and was in the process of being changed again (to AKM), but the Cz's took the design and improved it (vz58) a year later dumping the FCG and gas system to a more modern design w/far less design faults.

[weaponeer]

@MadIgor1 - people such as yourself always talk like you know the subject, and NEVER admit your wrong. in fact you have yet to make a correct statement, and thats either due to bias, ignorance, or you just lack the intelligence to speak on the topic. go back to your video games and when you grow older and smarter you can come back here and learn something.

[weaponeer]

@MadIgor1 - and this is your problem.. You don't have the ability or knowledge to look at them subjectively and without bias. You don't understand the design flaws of the AK, so you cannot possibily understand how or why parts are different in the Vz58, otherwise you would have known that the USSR forced Czech to convert from 7.62×45mm, to the russian standard of 7.62x39mm, which they hated due to the accuracy. The Czechs were the only country allowed to use it's one design variant.

[lilblitz]

looks just like an AK but does none of the good stuff

[weaponeer]

@lilblitz - actually it's a better rifle than the AK, with FAR fewer design defects.

[lilblitz]

@weaponeer AK has design flaws? It is known and battle proved as the most reliable rifle in the world, it's simplicity is what makes it so good.

[weaponeer]

@lilblitz - and thats the beauty of Propaganda. People will believe what they are told rather than take a subjective look into the design. The AK was designed by a tank mechanic, and it shows (and not in a good way). The Vz58 was built as a variant of the AK that replaced many (not all) of the design defects in the AK47, and designed by some of the best weapon designers in the world. after you have built 100 AK's of all types, you find it easy to see all the defects in the design.

[Humberto4790]

@weaponeer So the vz 58 is more reliable and more accurate than the ak 47?

[weaponeer]

@Humberto4790 - The Vz58 is an all around better rifle because it eliminated several design flaws (yet its not flawless itself). Its a more accurate rifle especially in rapid fire (the AK has loads of barrel harmonics issues, as well as significant flex) the Vz58 was well thought out and eliminated much of the flex, and it has minimal harmonics issues all of which makes it more accurate, better ergonomics, and the Vz58 has a bolt hold open on the last shot fired.

[weaponeer]

@Humberto4790 - The Vz58 is an all around better rifle because it eliminated several design flaws (yet its not flawless itself). Its a more accurate rifle especially in rapid fire (the AK has loads of barrel harmonics issues, as well as significant flex) the Vz58 was well thought out and eliminated much of the flex, and it has minimal harmonics issues all of which makes it more accurate, better ergonomics, and the Vz58 has a bolt hold open on the last shot fired.

[Humberto4790]

@weaponeer Cool.

[Humberto4790]

@weaponeer Hey one last question. What company is this vz 58 from? And it's muzzle brake, does the vz 58 have it's own threads or does it have that ak 14x1 lh thread?

[weaponeer]

@Humberto4790 - This is a weaponeer Vz58, the Muzzle brake is a reproduction of a later model. (due to the US laws on barrel length (and the Vz58 is short enough to require a break to meet the 16 inch Min, and as such it's welded in place). if I remember correctly the threads are right hand.

[weaponeer]

@lilblitz - actually it's what the AK should have been. the Czech's just stripped out most of the design faults of the AK47. even the USSR modernization program (AKM) didn't fix the fault's of the AKM or AK74.

[DigitalHaze65536]

What I find amusing is that they have come out with the 300 aac blackout. Kind of adds spark to the caliber debate.......WHY have they come out with this caliber??? What's old is new again? lol

[weaponeer]

@DigitalHaze65536 with the AR platform being a modular weapon system,. they are able to test a number of calibers. I have AR's in 5.56mm, 5.7mm and 6.5mm. the 300 AAC BLK makes a nice suppressed caliber, because you cannot have velocity, so you add bullet weight. caliber in this range even the 50 Beowulf, make good close range hunting caliber, especially for wild hogs

[pccchurch]

Military auto weapons 223/5.56 has the auto fire aspect that makes up for its lack of mass/penetration.

For us civlians, 7.62x39 is the way to go. Lots of surplus and new manufactured ammo.

Buying a $800-1500 semi auto AR that shoots semi auto 223/556 kinda sucks. If it was full auto as a civilian option, then I'd consider the lighter round.

Military decisions are usually cost related... trying to combine carbine with rifle capability with the 545. I just have separate carbines and rifles.

[weaponeer]

@pccchurch - don't get me wrong.. as a weapons collector, I like all weapons, but based on the 7.62x39's poor terminal ballistics, accuracy (you don't see many match rifles in that caliber for a reason), and the very limited range, make the 7.62x39 a non-starter for me as a weapon I trust. the AK's allways lose the gun battles because they are killed before they get close enough. The AK is a great machinegun as designed, but a poor rifle, the AR a great rifle, and a poor machinegun as designed

[weaponeer]

@pccchurch the 5.45 is not a carbine to rifle wannabe. it's velocity, accuracy, penetration, and range are all better then the 7.62x39 which is why Russia switched during combat testing before the end of the vietnam war. 5.45x39 is also cheaper than the 7.62x39. The 5.56mm has tremendous hydrostatic shock, due to the bullet being designed to yaw, and breakup in the body to create much more significant wounds. in a SHTF you will not find COMBLOC ammunition because importation stops.

[weaponeer]

@pccchurch - note: I'm only pointing out this information due to the inaccurate facts found around the internet related to the AKM and the 7.62x39mm. sadly most people take propaganda to be fact without investigation or research on their own, so the same old stuff gets repeated time and time again. the popularity of the semi AK in the US is due to the cost of the AR15. if they were the same price there would be tremendously less interest in the AK due to the quality and performance factors.

[MadIgor1]

@weaponeer I would kinda disagree with you. Rifle shootout with iron sights is effective to aprox. 200m range where both calibers have no problem to hit a head sized target. Above 200m its space for SPR rifffles, The CZ vz.58Pi with 4x scope and bipod can hit head sized target at 400m range. The point is that civilian shooter will not take advance of marksmen abilities of high velocity round, but will benefit of higher stopping power and lover costs of the 7,62x39 ammo.

[weaponeer]

@MadIgor1 - with any WWII bolt action, the iron sights allow you to hit a target at 1,000 yards (with the proper shooter). There should be no issue shooting at 300 yards. This is why the AK47 fails in combat. The 5.56mm has double the range and can kill long before the AK47 gets within range. as for stopping power, the 5.56mm wins, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 were designed for penetration, not stopping power. the 5.45x39 is cheaper and has better range than the 7.62x39 with good penetration

[MadIgor1]

@weaponeer you do confuse the wound-ability with stopping power. In many countries, including mine, the expanding or fragmenting ammo is prohibited for civilian use. Besides, the biggest question of soldiers doing service in Iraq and Afghanistan is how I stop that car or truck with my 5.56? Or how will I stop the guy wearing the old class IIa body armor? How should I be accurate and hit the target in woods? How should I shoot after this damn desert storm, or one week of rain?

[weaponeer]

@MadIgor1 - there is no confusion. if a bullet does not exit, it expends all it's energy on the target, a bullet that exits does not expend all the energy on the target. This has nothing to do with temp stretch cavity. the 5.56mm ball is non-expanding. You don't stop a car by shooting the car, you shoot the driver, or use an M2., Class IIa does not stop any rifle rounds, 5.56mm is more accurate, and the M16 is better in the desert than the AK, and survived Viet Nam's Monsoon's just fine.

[wedvarn]

@weaponeer I agree with you on all points except one The m16 doesnt do nearly as well in desert conditions. You leave an AR platform rifle in the desert for a week of sand storm hot dry conditions its not gonna work when you pick it up but leave an AK right next to it and youll have a better chance. But you know what youre talking about, so i dont know why i double penny ya

[weaponeer]

@wedvarn - the problem is you never tried it, or talked to the Class III guys who shoot in the desert. I carried the M16 in the first gulf war and I had zero problems. The AK is another story. due to the considerably wide machining variances in the USSR (they used propaganda to call it a feature for reliability) but they didn't have the ability to machine to close tolerances, and that works against the AK in dust (as well as a major design flaw) so the result is the AK fills with sand and jams.

[wedvarn]

@weaponeer Naw, i go shooting in the desert near pueblo colorado and ive tried it. But both platforms are good, im just saying the ar doesnt perform well with little maintainance. Maybe its the brand. But i cant afford to fill a top of the line AR with sand.

[weaponeer]

@wedvarn Even Afghanistan's own Special Forces units use M4's (not AK's)... Most of what people hear about AR's are just propaganda. My main AR (I have 5 AR's and 5 AK's) gets cleaned no more often than my AK's. they are all fine weapons.

[wedvarn]

@weaponeer I think we had a breakdown of communication, I agree with you. Im just sayin the ak design is less prone to malfunction with less maintainance. Im just refering to a personal test of sorts. Both good rifles in the hands of a qualified shooter But a Shitty ak is going to do better than a shitty AR.

[pccchurch]

My view is that they both use a good penetrating intermediate cartridge and are both compact.

I would prefer VZ or AK over an AR. I just have no interest in the AR standard 223 cartridge and don't care to deviate over standardized cartridges.

Between the AK and the VZ, I'd get one of both. Hell, they both use the same cartridges so why not.

[weaponeer]

@pccchurch just a reminder that russia dropped the 7.62x39,, after 27 years because it was ineffective and lacked range (even the little 5.56mm has double the range), which is why Russia has been using the russian version of the 5.56mm called the 5.45x39 for the last 37 years. so the 7.62x39 have not been a "standard" in nearly 40 years, yet the 5.56mm has been a NATO standard for nearly 50 years. and used by the full 28 Nato states (not including the countries not in NATO, yet standardized it).

[weaponeer]

@JustinianPrvni - a trunion is not an "extremely generic part", and if it has nothing to so with the "actual system" I dare you to build one without it. and thats the problem with this conversation... You cannot understand the terms, and the purpose of the design, therefore you cannot speak intelligently on the topic. another good example is the barrel diameter. the chamber does not define the dia. of the barrel, but the dia. of the AK barrel was defined by standard tooling already in use.

[weaponeer]

@JustinianPrvni It would be entertaining if you know what you were talking about, but in this case it's just pathetic. you have no clue about anything involving the Vz58, I doubt you have handled one, I know you have never built one (I have), 1948 the Communists took control of Czechoslovakia, as a Communist country it was offered the AK47 (but as stated over and over) the AK47's performance was poor (this was prior to the AKM and the installation of the Retarder to fix the FCG).

[weaponeer]

continued - The fact that the 58 used what worked from the AK design keeping the exterior layout, and had the Czech designers been born under a rock and never handled an AK in the decade prior to the 58, the next model would have been in 7.62x45, oh wait.. it was.. in 1952 they built the Vz52, in 1957 Russia forced a change in calibers of the 52 to 7.62x39, turning it into a poor performer., and it should be pointed out that the 52 and the 52/57 both had 10-round mags.

[weaponeer]

continued - so they went from the Vz52/57 with a 10 round mag, and "just happened" to copy identically the layout of the AK47, in the caliber dictated by Russia, using 30 rnd mags like the AK, which latch, and lock like the ak. using the same grip stud as the AK, same layout for upper and lower handguards, right to the detail as to how the top handguard is installed (you twist it on). with the AK not reliable, they installed the FCG (which is just like the M1 Garand), and used the tilting block

[weaponeer]

continued - that was in use on all their designs up to that point., and threw out the poor gas piston of the AK (which is a design flaw of the AK) and succeeded in updating the AK47 to a reliable design, but the year before russia already redesigned the AK47 into the AKM. They didn't test the 5.56mm until 1970, and to correct your history even more the next version the CZ2000 was even closer to the AK74 than the Vz52 was to the ak47. The AK47 is what happens when a tank Mech builds a rifle,

[weaponeer]

Continued - and the Vz58 is what happens when true weapon designers take the base design and build the rifle into what it should have been, and removed nearly all the flaws at the same time. I have had a number of phone calls from Czechs on this issue and I have yet to be proved wrong. as a weapon designer and gunsmith it's easy to see the truth. You guys never are able to explain how you went from the Vz52/57 to a AK47 style design the next year. GROW UP AND DEAL WITH IT

[weaponeer]

Continued - the Czech Govt took what worked, and modified the FCG from hammer to striker, and eliminated most of the design flaws of the AK (such as the selector and dust cover) and when complete it was a better rifle than the AK47, but by the time of Manufacture the AK47 had already been replaced by the AKM. Layout, front sight, barrel dia, rear sight, rear sight spring, grip stud, mag well style, trunion even the receiver at the time. you have to be blind not to see it.

[weaponeer]

Continued 2 - What did you think the Vz58 was a variant of? A Pickle?

This is the common problem with people who don't build their guns, or are not part of the C2/Sot Community, or a Gunsmith. You look at the outside and say, wait, they are nothing alike, when in fact they are if you tear it down to it's bare parts including barrel removal, you then see that the Vz58 was an improved design based on the AK. Vz58 is a better weapon than the AK due to the changes the Czech designers made to it.

[kyle82386]

love the music

[ThePechanator2]

@weaponeer Yes, I've seen your videos. You should cover the differences that makes this weapon entirely different instead of focusing on the few similarities. (There are not many ways to make a gas piston) You can't ignore the fundamental differences, striker-fired vs hammer-fired, rotating bolt vs falling breechlock. Variant: : one of two or more persons or things exhibiting usually slight differences (straight from websters) The VZ 58 does NOT differ SLIGHTLY from the AK.

[hioncheesenips]

what is that vfg? are you using a rail to prop it up, or does that come out of the grip? and whats the purpose of it if it does?

[skeebert]

is it illegal to fuck guns?

[NeutralExistence]

@skeebert

Not in Canada..... :D

[scottishbadboy1]

Sweet set up

[314299]

While the Vz58 fills the same role as the AK, the Vz58 is not a "Czech version of the AK47". It is a totally different design and shares zero parts with the AK.

[weaponeer]

@314299 - once again. Yes, the Vz58 is based on the AK47, in an attempt to correct the problems with the AK47 (prior to the AKM). and yes actually they do share many of the same specs, and even parts but you would only know that during disassembly or checking the specs. Up until the Vz58 all the Czech rifles also all has bottom piston designs like their LMG's. The Vz58 is a very good improved AK. keep in mind the AK47 is a good idea, but full of flaws in 1958.

[314299]

@weaponeer I agree that the Vz58 is an improvement over the AK 47 (lighter, better accuracy), but that does not make it "a version" of the AK, anymore than it would be a version of the STG44 or any other assault rifle which preceded it. Before the Vz58 the Czechs issued the Vz52 and the Vz 52/57 rifles, both used annular gas pistons (a ring surrounding the barrel) not under it like their LMG designs). I own both an AK and Vz I can assure you that they do not share a single interchangeable part.

[weaponeer]

@314299 - thats what a variant or variation is. the Vz52 was a poor design and only produced 5 years before it was forced into the VZ52/57 version which was a total flop, not accurate, and not reliable.

Its the annular gas piston design which is why the VZ52 failed. during extended firing (your limited to a slow 25 rds per minute) and not for extended firing without overheating the gas system due to heat, and expansion which tended to change the temper of the return spring.

[TheVeneth]

@weaponeer How can you say such a thing.. my father when he was serving his time in army as a young lad said that especially rifje vz.52 was absolutely accurate.. no movement when shooting and quite light weapon.. plus very handy fitted "stinger?" so.. and ammunition 7.62x45? they one of the best balanced ammunition.. at that time for such a weapon.. jeez..

[weaponeer]

@TheVeneth - The Vz52 was accurate, but I stated the VZ52/57 was not. the VZ52/57 was converted to 7.62x39 and had issues with reliability and accuracy. The 7.62x45mm was a better round than the 7.62x39mm but was short lived. Basically a 131 grain bullet at 2500 fps

[AppalachianFreedom]

-- Very, very, nice!

[C172Pilotdude]

I think that this is a great AK47 variant rifle but my only problem with it is that it uses different magazines.

[weaponeer]

@C172Pilotdude - I have yet to test the mags with dirt. most AK mags turn to jam-o-matics with a little dirt. I'm hoping the Vz58 mags are a bit better, but like I said I have yet to test them.

[MrLongbranch303]

@C172Pilotdude The SA/VZ-58 is not a AK variant they have no interchangeable parts and have a completely different action the VZ is a striker fired rifle there is no hammer .. is has more in common with the SKS , the action is like a P-38 pistol

[weaponeer]

@MrLongbranch303 - actually it has a great deal in common with the AK, and a few of the parts specs match. The gas system is based on the SKS, but the striker fire system is fairly unique. They fixed a few of the design defects of the AK series, but also added a leak spot with the gas system due to the spring. under heavy use the spring can get hot enough to lose it's temper, and cause the rifle to fail. it's not an issue with semi-autos

[taofledermaus]

Very clean looking rifle.  Looks sharp!

[DanBowenTV]

freakin sexy! DAMN

[BlueCollarSurvival]

they dont make these anymore I dont think

[weaponeer]

@BlueCollarSurvival - The Vz58? They stopped making them for military use but you can still buy the semi-autos here in the US from CzechPoint and other places.

[BlueCollarSurvival]

@weaponeer I was on the CZ-usa website and it said this rifle was discontinued. CzechPoint is another company that makes them?

[67mustangreg]

I've always been interested in a VZ58 but their ugly folding stocks just didn't do it for me. it's good to see that they are starting to mae aftermarket things for them. I might pick one up now.

[krazy45cat]

I can hardly wait :)

[ExtraKawaii]

No. Just no.

[SSSCLimitedTrademark]

Excellent. Is your VZ 58 a D-Technik mfd. Czechpoint import, or a US-made configuration?

[weaponeer]

@SSSCLimitedTrademark - it was built using an ohio rapid fire receiver

[mlacey56]

I could watch this over, and over, and over.......

[Jesses001]

Oh goody. A preview gun porn video. It has been a while. I see no sand this time. I hope it is not because of the annoying people.

[weaponeer]

@Jesses001 - no sand this time.. I moved and all I have now is grass :(

[Jesses001]

@weaponeer Oh yes, I forgot you moved. Maybe you can get a sand box, lol. I guess it would not be the same though. Anyway, I look forward to seeing the VZ-58. Great rifle. I do not own one right now, but I have used them. They seem like the perfect mix between an SKS and an AK. Internals are very similar to the AK as well, so simple to say the least.

[HiCapacity]

I like it .. I still have my vz58.