The Ultralight UniCan Alcohol Stove part of the Troop 73 Alcohol Stove Project

[Theoutdoorsguy1]

Good idea, troop 163 Ill.

[MrBillTroop73]

@Theoutdoorsguy1 Thank you! It's too bad the GSS banned use of home made stoves though.

[jw934]

Mr. Bill. The many comments you have provided such as the 1 oz fuel requirement, the fused link and the v-shape wire for pot support have been very helpful. Thank you.

[nommerOfChickens]

i'll give this a try later, looks like a very good design. to bad you cant get those beer cans anymore, i think the company redesigned them =[

[MrBillTroop73]

@nommerOfChickens Yes, Heineken makes straight stided cans now. However, this stove works very well with other pots. Most recently, sarasdreaming shows what pot she uses with it at approx 4:25 here:

watch?v=zXseC8S3dlM&feature=pl­ayer_profilepage

[Uriel1816]

nice design

[MrBillTroop73]

@Uriel1816 This worked very well for us for a long time.

[JEHIAHL]

Sorry if I missed it but did you use a pot stand? or was the wind screen the stand? Looks like a nice stove.

[MrBillTroop73]

@JEHIAHL Nope, you didn't miss it. The can rim on the upper half of the stove is also the pot stand.

[djbarryiii]

Nice idea..from Troop 2 Wisconsin.

[MrBillTroop73]

@djbarryiii Thank you!  It's too bad that current GSS has banned home made stoves.

[pondpup]

Oh yes, I see it was posted in 2008.

[pondpup]

This is a good video. However, this type of stove is not allowed on BSA functions. It is restricted by BSA's policy on chemical fuels and equipment.

[pondpup]

This is a good video. However, this type of stove is not allowed on BSA functions. Prohibited Chemical-Fueled Equipment—Equipment

that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed

beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations

or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves,

smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane

burners with their regulators removed.

[MrBillTroop73]

@pondpup You seem like a reasonable person. Please tell me that you forgot to look at the date I posted this video? Obviously, it was "legal" at the time.

[topshotrhit]

Only had a couple places along the seam light up for any length of time despite twisting and varying depth of top. Could feel the alcohol wet the sides when I'd do that but once it burned off, it would go back to just a few spots. I thought maybe too tight so I cut the slits all the way to the shoulder as the scissors I used couldn't quite do that. That did help. After several minutes stove boiled over though. Made my 4 relief holes with a pin and think they need to be bigger perhaps?

[MrBillTroop73]

@topshotrhit Alcohol is a "thin" liquid, and it's viscosity does not allow it to travel very high by capillary draw. Varying the top would not change the "draw" , but trimming down the bottom can's height would.

[topshotrhit]

@MrBillTroop73 I made it to the precise dims you gave - 13/16 bottom and 5/4 top. You're suggesting maybe bottom should be 3/4? It seemed to draw up just fine when I twisted the top. What about larger relief holes? The stove literally spit out some alcohol after a few minutes so that the entire stove and a few spots on the ground were burning. Looked pretty cool actually. :) Do you just flatten your sink fins when you pack it?

[MrBillTroop73]

@topshotrhit All of the ones we have made have had none of the problems you have described. Perhaps if you post a video showing your issues, I could try to help?

Yes, I just rub my hand over the flue tape fins to flatten them down and pack it that way.

[project2501b]

@topshotrhit It sounds like what is happening is that the fuel is vaporizing and then re condensing and then being ignited while still in liquid form, and sputtering. How smooth are the pressure relief holes? It also could be that the fuel is vaporizing and re condensing in the slit, and, having no place to go while ignited, is finding an escape due to heat and pressure.

Try building a second and a third one and see if you still have the problem. Some stoves just don't like to work.

[topshotrhit]

@project2501b Originally I just used a pin to push through to make the holes. When I wondered if they weren't quite big enough, I enlarged with an awl so both were pretty smooth though not on the inside since the metal had been pushed inward, of course. I built 2 and both did the same thing for whatever reason.

I ended up going back to fine tuning a SuperCat design (upsidedown Spam can) to work with the Heine pot since I was running out of time and I knew that worked. It burned efficiently.

[Swazooli]

Who is GSS? Here in NY (pequoit distric, Nassaua Cty LI) we are prohibited from using anything but prope only in NC BSA camps, and assuming it is not already prohibited. I use a trangia almost daily at breakfast. using a 1egg wonder with homemade lid, (easy to make), herbs spices left over spud onion and peppers with Eyetalian Provolone and American. My kid and i call it a power sandwich. I use a 'spresso pot with brown coffee (yep) and I am set. woof

now, if only i camped...

[topshotrhit]

@Swazooli GSS= Guide to Safe Scouting (scouting.org/scoutsource/Heal­thandSafety/GSS.aspx), which has all sorts of interesting things like you can't do lazer tag. Most of it makes sense though.

[teb0atoz]

Why do you think this use capillary action?

But I have looked at a number of your stove projects and gotten some good ideas, I like the fiberglass drywall wrap, I was wondering about using just fiberglass mat for autobody/boat repair?

Cheers

[MrBillTroop73]

@teb0atoz Capillary action is created when a narrow tube is placed in a liquid. A concave meniscus forms by surface tension, and this pulls the liquid column up until there is a sufficient mass of liquid for gravity to overcome the forces of capillary action pulling it up. A more narrow tube will draw a liquid column higher than a wide tube.

[MrBillTroop73]

@teb0atoz This stove design has simply placed one "tube" inside of another slightly larger "tube", creating surface tention in the liquid alcohol in the tiny area between the stove walls. It is the surface tention between the stove walls that creates the capillary action described, and pulls the alcohol higher than the alcohol in the center reservouir.

[MrBillTroop73]

@teb0atoz I havent used body repair fiberglass. My best guess is that you may be able to make it work. We have since improved our pot design using a flue tape heat exchanger to reduce boil time by a full minute.

[teb0atoz]

@MrBillTroop73 I know what capillary action, I have a degree in chemistry, that is why I was wondering why. It is a good design and simple to make. With any of the Pepsi can type stoves I find fitting the top and bottom pieces the hatdest part, but you all did a good job. I have liked looking at a number of the stove, THANKS

Cheers

[teb0atoz]

@MrBillTroop73 can you send me what you have done.

Cheers

[MrBillTroop73]

@teb0atoz The pot we currently use is shown at the end of this video:

watch?v=yPN2FpDyIb4&feature=re­lated

[Masowai]

@teb0atoz You should use the fiberglass mesh drywall tape and not the auto body type. Home Depot sells 50 foot lengths of the tape for only 3-4 dollars. And... there are no stray "fly away" fibers, either! Its so much cleaner to work with.

[megusen]

Nice little stove! Gonna try this tomorrow.

Could you tell me how long it usually needs to heat up/ prime?

Thanks

Keep up the good work

[MrBillTroop73]

@megusen Thank you!

If you ignite the center, it will blossom in just a few seconds.  I prefer to set my keg pot on top of the unlit stove, and then light the stove rim. I feel that I get the most use of fuel that way.

[megusen]

@MrBillTroop73

thank you very much.

First thing on my list for to tomorrow is: Buy a few soda cans :)

[MrBillTroop73]

@megusen So, how did your project turn out? I would be interested in seeing a video of the stove you make.

[megusen]

@MrBillTroop73

Well, the first try went straight into the trashcan :) I wasn't careful enough and crushed the two cans, as I tried to put them together.

I'm gonna try it again in the next few days. And maybe I can get a video of it.

[MrSteve079]

I got the picture posting thing down cold...but a video? The jumbo unican works great, and is still frugal on fuel. I use mine while at work, to make coffee, or a hot lunch on cold days, and the 1 qt or 1 .5 qt pan was easier to cook and eat out of, then a Heiny pot. I also found that it seems the stove worked better with more fuel. I just snuff the stove, and pour the balance back in to the fuel bottle.

[MrSteve079]

I made a larger version of this stove, from the 24oz Arizona Ice tea cans, to use with my larger 1 qt cookpot. Boiled 2 cups tap water, in 3:45. I used 1 ox of fuel, snuffed at boil, with right at 2 tsp. left unburned. Nice.

[MrBillTroop73]

I would love to see a video of that supersized stove!

[MrSteve079]

The first stove i ever made, I think the best for the Heineken pot, also made after seeing here. Simple, efficient, frugal. I get consistent boil times for 2 cups at 5 minutes, on a half ounce of fuel. Doesn't seem to get the respect it deserves, too simple, I guess.

thank you MrBill, and Troop 73.

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you!

[MrBillTroop73]

@MrSteve079 " Doesn't seem to get the respect it deserves, too simple, I guess. "

The issue seems to be N.I.H. syndrome. (Not Invented Here !) If they didn't invent it, it isn't good. Or, they invented something "better"

Whatever.

[ArtisanTony]

Nice stove!

[Azkamidaka]

I liked this song, what is it called. Great job on the stove!

[MrBillTroop73]

Thanks for your kind comments. I dont know the name of the song, its from the You Tube music exchange.

[BigTVideos]

Hey thanks for your kind words, coming from a Guru like you Im hononerd. It was your videos that sparked my stove quest. Thanks for all your great work.

[MrBillTroop73]

I dont claim to be a Guru, but thank you for your compliments, and we are glad to be of help.

[toounfazed]

Non-necessary music, we hates it!

[MrBillTroop73]

@toounfazed as is your personal right to hate, but I did the best I could with what I had.

Pssssssssssssst, Volume control works wonders!

[toounfazed]

Did you get a chance to watch The Lord of the Rings?

[Azkamidaka]

Unnecessary comments, no soup for you.

[toounfazed]

@Azkamidaka I cannot hear you, the unnecessary music is too loud.

[MrBillTroop73]

Good, because if you could hear me, you would be hearing voices that are not there and would need lots of medications and therepy!

[toounfazed]

@MrBillTroop73 What did you say? I cannot hear you! Oh, no's, the drugs have already affected my hearings.

[singularity64]

What an ingenious invention! It reminds me of the mini stove that my father made and used towards the end of WWII. This was during the last winter in Nazi occupied Holland. There was very little fuel available for cooking. No coal, and people would pull down fence palings etc just to have access to wood. To conserve his supply dad made a stove from a soup can and used splinters of wood only, to heat the contents. It was sufficient for the small amount of food we had. They were tough times. 5*

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you for your kind comments.

May God bless your father for what he went through.

[kathykscherrer]

Made one per the instructions, however every time I put a pot on top the flame snuffs out. What am I missing here?

[MrBillTroop73]

Could be the pot was put on too soon, not allowing the stove to warm up, especially if ambient air is cold.

Fix: let it burn a bit before putting the pot on.

Could be the fuel is old, and has absorbed moisture.

Fix: replace the fuel with a good brand of denatured alcohol, immediately bottle it into smaller portions to prevent contact with moisture laden air.

[MrBillTroop73]

Could be the stove bottom is just slightly too tall, and not proving the proper capillary draw.

Fix: trim the rim of the stove bottom just a bit.

Could be the lable ink between the two walls has fused, preventing capillary draw.

Fix: twist the two stove halves to free up any fused ink that may be blocking the fuel flow.

I hope this helps. If you still have an issue, please make a video of it. That may help me to help you.

[kathykscherrer]

Thank you, I'll go over everything again and adjust as necessary. If I still can't get it I'll shoot a quick video and post up.

[Russelljmagyar]

is it safe to eat or drink from heated up aluminium? i thought the idea of the stove was great, good project for the guy's.

[MrBillTroop73]

During WWII, people were asked to donate their steel and iron cookware to be recycled for the war effort.

Since then, cooking in aluminum has been the rule and not the exception. I havent heard of any ill effects over those years.

[jcvilleres]

Awesome idea!!! 5 * stars

JC

DeVilleresBrods

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you!

[zeuus]

Thank you! I made a couple of these last night and can't beleive how well they work. I put one together with a soup can pot for a small complete cook system weighing under 5 oz with 2 days worth of fuel.

[MrBillTroop73]

Glad they worked out for you.

Please post a video of what you made?

[jvcrules]

hmm, dont quite get it, what do the vent holes do and where does the flame come out...?

[MrBillTroop73]

The flame comes out of the seam where the two can halves meet. The snug fit of the can walls creates a capillary action that wicks fuel to the top of the seam.

The vent holes prevent over pressurization that would otherwise force fuel up through the seam too rapidly.

I hope this helps.

[jvcrules]

ahhhh i see, thanks for explaining. i dont drink coke and i rarely find coke cans so this is a good stove for me, time to make it!

[whyerp]

What type of opener did you use on the beer can?

[MrBillTroop73]

I used a "Good Cook" brand side cutting can opener. They cost more, but you get a much wider lid.

[san5pedro]

I have the same problem as kparrow243.

I made the stove according to the directions and tested it at room temperature with cold tap water using 1 tbsp (1/2 oz) of yellow HEET. When I put the Sierra cup with 8 oz of water on the stove it sputters and soon goes out.

When I used a nail to create extra gaps between the bottom and the pot stand, it worked a little better, but only to the point of forming bubbles at the bottom of the cup.

My cat can (3 oz) stove performs better.

What gives?

[MrBillTroop73]

This stove design is limited only by the shape of the can bottom. You will need to put a full ounce of alcohol into it to get the performance as tested.

BUT: when a boil is achieved and the flame snuffed out, it has consistantly tested to use only 1/2 oz of alcohol, and the rest can be poured back into the bottle.

Bill

[SpeciAngler]

Neat, simple and lightweight all in one system.

[MrBillTroop73]

We greatly appreciate your compliments!

[Swazooli]

could crazy glue the fiberglass on. Make it thicker too! Tnny at Minibulldesigns wraps his with fiberglass wik others use kevlar wik. He wrapped the burners as well on some as you can spritz the wick and light 'r up w/o primerpan. Don't know how long till you burn off the Crazy Glu, but a few drops now and then are not expensive if you use it as a troop item.

[MrBillTroop73]

We have since changed out pot design to place a heat exchanger made from aluminim flue tape around the label of the can.

[topshotrhit]

@MrBillTroop73 How do you pick up the pot if you're now using aluminum flue tape rather than fiberglass tape to insulate the pot? Some kind of lifter?

[MrBillTroop73]

@topshotrhit I use the Ove-Glove. However, others have placed a couple of those silicone wrist bracelets around the mouth of the keg pot, and just grip it there to lift it.

[piratestick898]

Its amazing what you can do with the simplist of things :]

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you!

That is exactly out point. The poorest kid can make something useful with very few things.

Bill

[kc7fys]

I was excited about the possibility of drywall tape--but see it sort of flunks the test in durability. Still, this is a good design.

[MrBillTroop73]

We have since upgraded the keg pot design to have an aluminum flue tape heat exchanger around the can label.

You'll see our latest keg pot design near the end of our video titles "The Truth About Pots"

Bill

[kc7fys]

Thank you very much. I will check it now!

[DRS8503]

Does the burner or the Heineken can itself break down quickly due to the heat from the flame, or is this stove reusable multiple times?

Secondly does the water that it's boiled in have an aluminum taste to it from say the Heineken can?

thanks

[MrBillTroop73]

You have some great questions.

I have used the same burner for a couple of years now, and I use it at least three times per month for our Boy Scout campouts.

I dont taste any difference in the water. Its just fine to me.

Bill

[badphobar]

mabe a flat bottom fuel pan and ridged support to reduce fuel needed for cold and starting capillary feed.

maybe even i rise in the middle of the fuel pan to pool the fuel against the outside edge.

[MrBillTroop73]

Very smart!

I would enjoy seeing a video of your version!

Bill

[badphobar]

I make my capillary wicks differently

great job Time Well Spent

[MrBillTroop73]

Interestingly, the tight space between the inner and outer wall creates the capillary action! So, no actually wicking material is needed.

Bill

[badphobar]

looks good and simple.

does it need to primed?

can it be used in the cold?.

does it burn effeciently?

does the fuel flow smoothly/

how much must be in the bottom fuel tray to work? seems fast to build

great design!!!!

[MrBillTroop73]

Yes, very simple!

No priming

Yes, we used it at Donner Pass in January!

Standard testing yielded results of rolling boil at sea level on 1/2 oz of denatured alcohol

The fuel is brought to the rim by capillary action.

Best performance (especially in cold weather) is to start with 1oz of fuel (however, the stove may be snuffed out as soon as your boil is achieved, to conserve fuel)

Thank you for your questions and kind compliments!

Bill

[alpenstock2]

O.K.!

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you!

[MrBillTroop73]

Something from YouTube's Audio Swap program.

They shut down the music I had originally put here, so I had to use Audio Swap.

[OutlanderOfEarth]

That is a very clean design, and I like the solution of how to handle the hot heineken pot with drywall tape.

I see that I have alot of work to do on my own desgns!

Love the video and the setup. 5 stars.

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you very much!!!

We have an updated version now, check out our video titled "The Truth About Pots"

Bill

[mlndstream]

good stove:) depressing music:(

[MrBillTroop73]

Thanks for the compliment on the stove.

Blame YouTube for forcing me to use their horrible AudioSwap music. It was the best they had for the length of the video.

Bill

[kuyftiu]

Dam good video mate!! I like your work.

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you.  Please post a video if you make one !

Bill

[alpenstock2]

very good!

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you very much!

If you make one, please show us a video of it working.

Bill

[1jump2many]

I really like how you used fiberglass drywall tape on the Heineken pot. I see many using 1/16th inch braided fiberglass wick. Using the tape is cheaper and easier to apply. Great video

[MrBillTroop73]

It worked well for us, but we have since upgraded to using aluminum tape to make a heat exchanger that goes around the middle.

Please see our video titled "The Truth About Pots"

Bill

[Carlsarv]

I want to se the flame pattern :( nice design thought.

[MrBillTroop73]

My video called "The Truth About Pots" shows several video snips of the UniCan flame pattern in action:

watch?v=yPN2FpDyIb4

Bill

[Carlsarv]

Thanks!

[pdotterw]

Aluminum Beer cans are coated / lined on the interior with plastic. How do you account for that burning off OR leeching into the water during boiling. Beer cans are engineered for cold, not hot.

[MrBillTroop73]

The lining in all beverage cans are tested by the FDA in an autoclave under an extra atmosphere of pressure.

They boil Ethanol solvent under this pressure at 250 degrees F for two hours, then lower the temp and hold it at 104 degrees F for 10 days.

During this time the FDA tests the

Ethanol solvent for any migration of the lining material at the end of the 2 hour 250 deg. boil, then after 24 hours, then after 96 hours, and finally after 240 hours.

[MrBillTroop73]

In actual use, the cans are sterilized (boiling water inside), then the contents are pasturized (boiling beer inside).

As long as you dont BURN the lining, and just bring water to a boil, it should be safe.

We cook with plastics all the time. Teflon, and all of its updated versions, are coating pots and pans used by everyone. Most people use plastic utensils to cook with (spatulas, slotted spoons etc.)

I hope this helps.

Bill

[kparrow243]

I made this stove and every time that I set the beer can pot on the thing the stinking flame goes out. Followed all the directions, HELP!

[MrBillTroop73]

Use at least 1oz of denatured alcohol.

If ambient air temp is very cold, it may need more time to warm up.

If your water is ice cold, you may need to hold the pot off of the stove using a V shaped wire over the top of the pot support.

If that doesnt help, make a video and I will try to analize it. So far, we have never had the problem you are having.

Bill

[volcanicdoomfire123]

how do you put the bottom and top together!!!!!!! it's driving me insane!

[MrBillTroop73]

Overlap the slits cut into the sides of the pot support piece, and slip that part into the stove body.

Bill

[wildlifeed]

Absolutely Love it!!! Great Idea!! man I've been scratching my head trying to come up with a decent windscreen. never even thought about the can!!! Duh!! Great Stuff, Cheers.

ED

[MrBillTroop73]

I am glad it helped.

Thank you for visiting.

Bill

[T80Delta]

I seriously don't mean to "burst your bubble," but in all Boy Scout activity's, the use of fuel other than propane, white gas, and one other is prohibited. I just don't want you guys to get in trouble like i did when i first used alcohol stoves at a scouting event. bottomline - BSA does not allow Alcohol. :(

[MrBillTroop73]

It used to say that, but a few years ago it changed.

The current Guide to Safe Scouting states that "compressed fuels" should only be used with adult supervision, and provides other safety procedures for what they term "liquid fuels".

Denatured Alcohol is clearly marked on its container as "stove fuel"

I hope this helps,

Bill

[T80Delta]

wow thankyou so much..i guess our counicill doesn't know what they're talking about haha

[topshotrhit]

@MrBillTroop73 The latest GSS does indeed prohibit homemade alcohol stoves. Sigh.

[MrBillTroop73]

@topshotrhit Yes, but, of course, that doesn't prevent individuals from using them on family outings. And, I believe the pendulum will swing the other way, , , , eventually.

[MrBillTroop73]

@topshotrhit Not to mention. . . . . ok, I'll mention it, there are many alcohol stoves that are machine made by reputable gear manufacturers. The GSS allows those.

[topshotrhit]

@MrBillTroop73 Yes, technically, but it is clear what the intent is given alcohol is not a recommended fuel. I think it's a poor decision, but apparently there have been incidents to elicit this action. I'll continue to use alcohol on my personal trips, but will take a canister on our Troop outings from now on - I'm the only one that doesn't use a huge Coleman or dutch oven anyway ;)

[SoldierBoy143]

A great video. Thanks for posting MrBill. Five stars for a great job.

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you very much.

We are interested in your feedback, if you make one.

Bill

[hoz49]

I put one of these together this morning. Didn't follow the measurements but just winged it. My "pressure relief holes" were a couple small slits made with the knife.

It heated to almost boiling (small bubbles and a shimmer) 2 cu tap water in a grease pan pot in 5 minutes, and the 1/2 oz alky burned for 8 minutes!

Very simple, very easy to make. This may be my regular stove from now on.

[MrBillTroop73]

Glad it worked out for you.

This has become our Troop's regular stove for our Venturers (senior boys).

If you have any questions, please dont hesitate to ask.

Bill

[hoz49]

A question. With continued use, have you or your Troops found any "loosening"of the slit between the top and bottom, causing the flame pattern to change, or become less efficient?

[MrBillTroop73]

It does "loosen up" slightly, and we have noticed that an older stove blooms faster.

It seems the older stoves boil somewhat faster, but we havent attempted a test between new and old stoves.

Bill

[eceipretsam]

bill! that is incredibly cool! what a great idea!

[MrBillTroop73]

Hi Curtis!

Thanks for the compliments. How did that Binchotan stove work out for you?

Bill

[hampzie]

do you have the measurements we do not have a safe way around here. we would be useing a pepsi or a coke can

[MrBillTroop73]

I just measured the two main stoved parts. I used an outside caliper for accuracy.

The stove bottom measures 13/16" and the pot support piece measures 1-1/4".

Both pieces are needed to get the unique capillary action used to bring alcohol up to the rim for combustion.

Please make a video of your version. We are interested in feed back on boil times, etc.

Bill

[nj4x4fever2]

Fantastic job, I have made 3 variations since I made my first one last night.

[MrBillTroop73]

Excellent!

Please post videos of your veriations. We are interested in your feedback and boil times, etc.

Bill

[micsolaire]

well described !

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you. We appreciate your compliments.

Bill

[MrBillTroop73]

Thank you very much. It took a lot of years of experiments to come up with our design.

Give it a try, we would love to hear your feedback.

Bill

[MrBillTroop73]

OK, Ive added a sound track using YouTube's new Audio Swap feature. There wasnt much to choose from that fit the video style, but the main complaint of having no music has now been addressed.

Enjoy, and Thank You for Watching Our Video!

Bill

[oakironworker]

How do you cut the top of the Heineken can, is the roll on the top left on, I get a ragged edge

[MrBillTroop73]

A regular can opener wont work, even if you turn it sideways. I used the Good Cook brand side cutting can opener. It works differently (read the instructions that come with it), giving a nice smooth edge on the lid, and there is still a rim on the can.

Bill

[oakironworker]

thanks for taking the time to reply

[Beavers347]

great stove. next time add music

[MrBillTroop73]

Yeah, Im not new to stove building, just new to YouTube and trying to do video stuff.

But thanks for the compliment on the stove.

Bill

[rip3000gt]

How does the flam get oxygen to burn? When you place a pot on top won't it suffocate the flam? I am definitely going to try this and then maybe show my troop

[MrBillTroop73]

The alcohol fuel is brought to the rim by the natural capillary action of the tight space between the stove body wall, and the pot support wall.

I have posted a video to help you see it

Bill

[TaranisWt]

very creative and could be used in times of an emergency....

[dezraTalariusVenrstg]

You always come up with the neatest ideas