I guess no one saw how inefficient it is to create billions of planets and only have one actually provide the ability to produce life. Also note, the guy is all powerful, all knowing, and has an issue with running the universe. God, by his own assertions, is like a genie, a genie that gives no fucks about hypocritical teachings, or recording its words more permanently than in a book changed multiple times over the years. This isn't cross examination, it is blatant lies.
He does realize fine tuning limits how god can create a universe to allow life meaning he is not all powerful and has to follow certain laws just to create things, and also if you change the four forces all at once you can create a universe. The fine tuning argument just shows that god is not all powerful, and the anthropic principle is basing the whole of the universe on life when you could take out all the galaxies and stars and the universe would be much the same.
@Requiemxtoxinnocence He's insinuating that God created the anthropic principals and they limit the creation, not God. (e.g. the gravitational constant is God's design.) As far as the other galaxies are concerned, the second law of thermal dynamics would cause our galaxy to be much more short lived. (that is to say, without the thermal bumper in the finite past our galaxy would be much closer to heat death. Since the universe is ever expanding.)
@OnyxMass It's a limitation to god, by saying something is fine tuned you then put specific laws and sciences as a limitation to how one can create and further bind them to him making him not all powerful. Our galaxy is actually on a head on collision with the Andromeda galaxy, so we're screwed no matter what and our sun will burn us long before that. Some religious people actually pose that god will stop the heat death which I find a bit odd.
@Requiemxtoxinnocence I don't see a problem with God being limited. Though fine tuning isn't a limitation. The best explanation I can think of (right now) for how fine tuning works is as follows. Say your holding water in your hands. Since, the water is being contained within your hand it doesn't fall to the ground. But, it can still be dropped, shaken, (to make waves) among other things. The norm of the water not falling out is only because it is being held in place.
@OnyxMass From your suggestion then that would mean that the universes parts were already there and god simply put them into a different state, this is different than creating from nothing. But I don't see why the universe couldn't simply be in a chaotic state until it formed into what it is now and then being the first uncaused cause. But your analogy is understandable.
@Requiemxtoxinnocence I'm saying that god created time,space and matter as well as the anthropic principals. The anthropic principals are designed in a way that they can be exchanged/rearranged/bent with/to new principals if it suits God's needs. As far as the chaotic state is concerned. Check out the Borde Guth Vilenkin Theorem on inflationary space times.
@OnyxMass How can god create time? How does one create matter and energy? These are questions that will need to be answered before a god can become something more than a hypothesis. Furthermore the anthropic principle is really sketchy, considering we don't know what other reasons there could be for a universe. The universe is also quite hostile to life, yet quite hospitable to the destructive forces that eradicate life.
0% of the universe that we know as of now, are inhabitable. (Yes, I know it's 0,0000......1)
78% of Earth is covered in water.
1/3 of the remaining 22% consists of mountains, deserts and ice caps.
That leaves about 15% left for us.
15% which is safe enough that we might live there, though in constant fear of hypothermia, overheating, earthquakes, volcanoes, monsoons, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, lightning storms, and so forth.
Problem is, I was talking mainly about Earth, which Christians, and Creationists especially, claim was made for us by a superior being, yet even the 15% we can live on are mostly dangerous due to wild life and natural disasters.
You're a moron sir. Life could possibly arise in areas we could not. The universe is not specifically tweaked for us, but instead, we are specifically tweaked for this world. We have evolved and adapted to this world. That is why if we went to mars, we would die without proper protection of course.
Whats more, is just because our human notion of life, doesn't exist on the planets we have found it not to exist, doesn't mean a non-human notion of life, doesn't exist on them.
@Microtardz You're just making a random claim with no scientific basis. Unless you can find evidence, of these "not human notions of life" your claim has no foundation to stand on.
@Microtardz Read "A Brief History In Time" by Stephen Hawking when he describes the expansion rate of the universe, and then tell me that the universe is not tweaked or fine tuned.
He's misrepresenting the anthropic principle. The anthropic principle states that due to the trillions of trillions of planets in existence, even if their is a case for life to arise one time out of a billion their is still areas where life will occur.
The silliest agglomeration of stupid ideas, wrong theories, non-sequitur's ever assembled to try to explained what science had already got an answer for.
"Not all opinions are equal. Some are a great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others" - D. Adams
im not religious at all, but u guys are missing the interpretation of god. GOD is ALL. hes within us and everything else. just believe and have faith and stay positive minded.
well done frank - blast them with amazing scientific fact then try to attach your silly god rubbish to it at the end. why can't religeous people see through this crap ?
we haven't even investigated the universe, holy shit, we know nothing about our universe... god doesn't need something to support life, he could just use magic, we wouldn't even need oxygen... we could live on fairy floss mountains and have an alice in wonderland world or an avatar planet...
we live in a very NATURAL world. we're a beautiful cosmic fuck up... and there has to be more.. put up your pink into the sky, 1/85th of the sky has been measured, containing 7500 galaxies.
Great post! Thanks. It's overwhelming to think how much power God had to have to be able to create this vast universe and pour so much energy into it. What is more awesome is the fact that He wants to know us personally. He has given us so much.
id rather god come see me personaly then make me have to wonder if hes real and maybe i suffer eternal damnation because of the free will he gave me...id rather be a slave for all eternity than go to hell....wheres the free will in that?
@warhammermichael I am sorry, but I really don't understand your post, particularly the slave comment. As to the free will, you just expressed your preference, so there is the free will.
@MidnightPancakes true, but a perfectly balanced universe that follows intelligent, unwritten laws and patterns (like gravity and thermodynamics) is evidence of an architect of some kind. Denying that would be like denying that entire cities with buildings and roads and underground utility infrastructures are all evidence of someone that designed them. Well, maybe I'm wrong. I guess over trillions of years it might be possible for an entire working city to appear from an explosion and evolution.
@shawn76o No, That's is a broad over generalization. It's intellectually lazy. I don't deny that there could be a god. In fact, I'm a deist. However, the Christian Bible's perspective (regardless of language or translation) on the origin of the universe is so distorted that you have to use scare tactics, ignorance, and subjective self delusion in order to believe it. What would should believe in this universe is from what is observably consistent... like the radioactive dcay of elements... etc
@MidnightPancakes What may be known of God is manifest in all people, for God has shown it to them. Since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools... Rom 1
@shawn76o So are you calling me dark hearted? : / rather sad for you to throw that at me if that's what you're trying to get at. I was a Christian for 15 years, I never professed to be wise. I studied the Bible in both Greek and Hebrew. However, still I came to the solution that I did when I was 6 that the Creation story was written be people who had know idea how to describe their universe. Now, I freed myself from Christianity, I truly appreciate my own life and others more with a honest heart
@shawn76o The Key is cities don't emerge randomly like that because THEY ARE UNNATURAL. Most things humans do go against normal natural processes. Evolution is a natural biological process. Abiogenesis is based on natural processes. To me, the universe is a cycle of these processes and I take joy in the fact that I am a self aware being that can view and appreciate these cycles
since you KNOW that the universe represents God's fingerprints - now show us how you link them to God.
Just like in a murder case, show us the match:
Here the fingerprints on the murder weapon and there the fingerprints of God taken by you.
Come on: Show us how you take the fingerprints of God!
But don't forget to apply the same scientific methods when taking the fingerprints of God, as were used to discover all the fascinating things in the universe!
@manu191357 Are you serious? You want God's fingerprints? Even if it were possible to do so, you would still deny it. Nobody is going to prove anything to you. All of the evidence that God would have you to see is available to you. You say the evidence is not scientific, which is true. Science has no room for the supernatural, only the tangible. So then you have a choice; put your faith in science alone, or acknowledge the limitations of science and understand there are things far greater.
@manu191357 The universe is finely-tuned in order for life to thrive on Earth. Think about it. You don't ask why, if your car is so finely-tuned for you, why can't you drive it from the trunk, or ride under the hood... if your house is built so nicely for you, why can't you live in the sewage pipes? That's ridiculous. Why would you want to live in the plumbing of the universe, anyway?
No one knows if we can or can't live in most of the universe. No one has been able to find out. It's all based on opinions, or what they think (same rule for meteorologists - they say there is no rain for tomorrow, but, sure enough, it rains). Just a thought.
The universe, being as big as it is, makes the probability that there will be life SOMEWHERE in its vastness fairly probable. If we all die (as the bible predicts), there's no reason the rest of the universe can't go along just fine. Would it be too much to postulate that it could have been here (and in a much better condition) if we had not? The idea that if we are here, the universe must be as it is (just as likely from random occurrence as from God), makes the point moot.
Take away the pomp and circumstance, and it's not so compelling. Take a away the Jesus juice and it's a fun little astronomical symposium. He gives no empirical evidence as to why God exists. It's all more "we don't understand something so somebody else must have done it." Is there a reason to think so? Some self-righteous Christians feel the need to antagonize people (surprise, surprise) over a matter of belief. And it goes back farther than atheists.
IF I teleported you to a random place in the universe you would die instantly 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time. Sounds designed to me.......Would you call I car that doesn't start 99.9999....% of the time a good design?
So let me get this straight, god created the universe and put jupiter there to take care of space junk and to protect the earth? Is he then saying that god cannot control space junk by not creating it in the first place? What about the ones that got through? Just does not make any sense!
So by saying that Jupiter is a sort of vacume cleaner, you are saying that god in all of his wisdom and power cannot control asteroids or meteors and can not just wipe the universe clean of space debris? You are also assuming that the earth was placed in its precise location to support us, maybe we exist because it is in the right place and we adapted as the planets atmosphere was able to support life. (Cambrian Explosion). Does this really point to a God? Naaaah!
God in his wisdom and power created Jupiter to do the job. Why always wipe asteroids away when a planet can do that automatically? Usually a complex and detailed painting is more beautiful than a simple one, and I believe that God made the universe complex partially for the same reason.
So by you saying that god created Jupiter to do the job, that he does not really have total control over the earth and the universe. Could he not control the asteroids to avoid us altogether? And how about the ones that got through, was god sleeping at the wheel? Too bad god can't explain it to us in person. Has anyone seen him lately? Anything any one says is speculation. Until the big invisible guy tells us in person, he is either dead, does not exist or just does not care!
Well, I haven't seen God, but I've felt his precense very strongly. That's why my faith is as strong as it is. I don't really understand why Jupiter would be proof of God not being in total control. I'm sure God is ABLE to control asteroids without using Jupiter, and as big as the universe is, we can't really say whether he does it or not. We can't understand God. Watch from 7:39 again.
Either god does, or he does not rule the universe, you can't pick and choose. Feeling his prescense is not proof of his existence anymore then the bible is. As for Jupiter, how many asteroids were let to pass and connect with earth, was that gods plan also? All I am hearing is excuses and speculation for someone who is not there. Is he really infinite? is that why we do not see him, because he is not there. His mere existence would violate the first and second law of thermo dynamics.
Actualy if you beleive that god exist, you should be presenting arguments to validify him. Unless you feel that you cannot clarify his existence and wish to keep his existence in a supernatural state. If he does exist, he sure has a strange way of presenting himself. Such as, when someone has cancer or other disease and is miraculesly cured, they say god performed a miracle. When was the last time god regrew an amputees stump?is he prejudice against amputees,is that beyond him,or just not there!
Have you seen the wind? Sorry but those type of arguments are sensless along with you cant see air. But lets follow your logic for a second. Wind can't be seen, but it can be measured and its effects seen, air cannot be seen, yet if we put you in a sealed environment and remove the air you die. We can also use meters to determine what the percentage of oxygen, hydrogen and other inert gases are available. Remove god from the equation and nothing changes, just maybe less wars in his name.
God IS supernatural, and I haven't tried to prove that He's not, because He is. He's not bound to obey the laws of nature. He created them! I've heard about God regrowing legs and stuff, and in the Bible Jesus heals an ear that has been cut off. So He's not prejudice, He knows everything about everyone. Since He can create a universe, it definitely isn't BEYOND him.
I myself were healed by God from lactose intolerance few weeks ago after praying and again, being touched by God, so for me it's very valid proof that He exists. I can't convince you about God's existence using arguments or by speaking from experience, so I'll leave that to God himself.
I got your point, Just because we cannot see it does not mean it does not exist. But your examples are tangible and can be proven quite simply. Even by the bibles standard where Jesus says that if you call upon him he will show himself, which is either a lie or just cant be done due to non existence. The bible which is supposed to be the word of god is riddled with inaccuracies and errors.I guess if it makes you feel better to believe then more power to you, but don't pass it off as fact!its not
How do you know that if you did not pray, you would have still healed up! See the studies, prayer did not improve the actual outcome of physical issues, however it did make some feel better, but they still died anyway. You say he exists, where is he? can we go vist or see pictures of him? There are no gods, devils, angels, and I can prove it,there are none to be seen. Why do they hide if they exist,why are they not an every day occurance. Even a king comes out once in awhile to view his subjects
"God doesn't hide. He only shows himselves to those who want him. If you choose to reject him, he lets you choose."
Yes god does hide, when was the last time nayone physicaly saw him. As for the statement of showing himself only to thode that want him, sounds more elitist then a statement of fact. Does he really give you free choice? Lets see, God loves you and he wants you to accept him, but if you don't you burn in hell for eternity with some creature tearing at your flesh! What a choice!
It's what I have been saying all along,no one agrees on anything,you say no burning hell, the other guys say a lake that burns eternally with a 15 foot demon ripping your flesh. One guy says all you have to be is a good person, while the other one says that god requires a blood sacrafice. The more people tell me about god/religion, the happier I am about my atheistic choice. My story remains the same, no god, no religion, simple and sweet, sweetly simple. Let me know when you all sort it out.
But your basing your beliefs on what others think. Your not basing them on truth. But Christianity doesn't call on religion, it calls on a relationship. Like i said your concept of God is wrong, probably because of what people told you or what you have been brought up in. But im saying if you look at purely the facts, believing in God is more logical then not believing in Him. Dont worry about other beliefs.
TRUTH! Thats a statement that is being tested! Others would disagree with you as for concepts of god. Exactly what facts would make it more logical to believe in a currently living god, then to dismiss gods existence? As for your statement "Dont worry about other beliefs" That seems to me to be a slightly bit hypocritical, you want an atheist to keep an open mind, but only if I follow what you say as being right, yet all those other older religions are just dead wrong! cant wait for reply!
If you think that you can remove religion from god, then lets talk about god. If you are one of those that if something ismade, then it must have a creator. Then who created god? thats when most people will use logic, and then all of a sudden the supernatural kicks in. What about god created us, but he himself has moved on and has kicked the bucket, just like all things natural. To believe that god currently exists is a stretch, great claims require great proof, so far god has remained hidden.
Not necessarily. If we believe that God is the Creator of all things. That means he is the creator of time itself. Therefor God is outside of time because he created it. He does not need to be created. Thats were the word eternal came from. I have some sources if you would like to see..
Thats right!, If we beleive god is the creator of all things. So by god not needing to be created, something can come from nothing! Your going all supernatural on me, Santa Clause also fits into the god description. He creates toys from nothing, knows when your awake, knows if you've been bad or good, and can deliver toys around the world to millions of children in one night! Maybe there is a reason that god is always depicted with a grey long beard? HoHoHo, or should I say Amen, Amen, Amen!
The difference between you and I is that I will listen to a statement and asess it strong points thus its validity. Using your supernatural argument is counter productive and proves nothing. That term is usualy reserved for statements that have no viable answers. If you are going to say that you heard about god regrowing things, please back up your statements with facts that can be verified. And anything in the bible is only conjecture and cannot be taken as fact.
There are more details about how I exactly were healed, as well as there are more things that are valid proof of God to ME, and I completely understand that it's not valid proof to YOU.
BTW, when man fell into sin, he was separated from God. Jesus was sent to take the punishment for our sins (death) upon himself, so we could be forgiven and united with God again. So for those who have accepted Christ, God is, or will shortly become an everyday occurance.
Here we go again, if you do not belong to the exclusive club then you cannot see god, just as those who say you must beleive in ghosts in order to see them. I am willing to listen to your thoughts and evaluate their validity, but you are not willing to see my point, that much is true. What would I need to do, by your own admission, in order to see god to set me straight? Please show me the error of my ways! Something tangible,not supernatural. When I stopped believing,is when I felt the happiest
Again, please do not use the bible as fact, it is not any more factual then a harry potter book. Again you delve into the realm of the supernatural, with no proof but the bible. Obviously you are just spouting what you have been taught without thinking it through. Please give my regards to the easter bunny and santa claus, who is visiting with the tooth fairy, because according to you, they all exist if we only beleive!
It is not something that I refuse to beleive,I was quite religious once. And what would a 15yr old know about life experiance (No offense intended).When I served in the military,saw death first hand,and held dying people in my hands while we were trying to revive them or give CPR. Or the time that 6 children drowned when only 50 yards from shore. If god is put in that equation then we should all be mad as hell. But since he does not exist, it is then just the nature of things, I can accept that!
What you need to do to find God? Seek Him honestly. Many times it requires a really desperate situation for a non-believer to honestly call for Gods help.
As for seeing God, you very, very rarely actually SEE him visually. He usually "shows" himself in other ways.
I've been thinking things through a lot and I'm not trying to use the Bible as proof, I'm explaining my worldview. I get your point and I understand, and I'm very sorry to hear about your life experinces.
I don't think santa claus or any other of those things exists if you just believe in them, but I understand that you put God in the same category as them because for YOU there is just as much proof for God as there is for the easter bunny.
No not for me! For everyone. Using your own argument, just because you do not see them, does not mean they don't exist! Preists and clergy do for god what your mom and dad do for santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny! Except that your parents probably did more for you then any preist or clergy!
I know this sounds silly to you, but the premise is the same. If god is a creator, then who created god? Another supernatural being? If god can step outside of natural laws, then maybe so can we!
Thank you for your sincerity, but please do not be sorry about my life experiances, I chose that path and got more then I expected. This is how lives are shaped,not by an ancient tome that is clouded & veiled in ambiguity & questionable validity. I do appreciate you sharing your own views. When I was young I also beleived, but life changed my way of thinking and the lack of religion or god to fulfill my soul. Once I realized my current path, I must say it felt like a weight had been lifted.
If my wolrdview was disproven to me, I would not hold on to it, but instead it has been proven to me in a very strong way, and I don't think that you've really understood just HOW strongly. It seems like we aren't really getting anywhere in this discussion anymore, so we don't have to go on unless you want to know more about my belief or experiences. This is one of the most intelligent and respectful discussions I've had with an atheist, so thanks.
I'm not asking you to give up your faith or what you believe,I am just saying think!I feel now we are getting somewhere,what criteria would you need that would make you consider what you have been told all your life? Because if all you make is excuses, then you can never look outside of your world with true sincerity and without pretense and unconditionaly.You must first empty the glass before you can fill it. Thank you for your comments concerning our discussions, I'll take that as a compliment
My faith is not based upon what I've been told. It used to be when I was younger, but after some thinking, research, and most of all after PHYSICALLY feeling God's precense, the things that I had been told wasn't the foundation of my faith anymore. So even if the persons that told me about God would take back what they have said, I would still believe. If I was PRETENDING to have a relationship with God, I would have wasted my life, and I wouldn't hold on to my faith.
It's interesting to hear a 15 yr old speak religiously & about god & to say that what you have been told is not the foundation of your faith. If you were on a deserted island, I find it hard to believe that you would feel the same, or if you were born in Iraq, Iran or some other muslim country that you would be just as staunch, except for the Islam religion, and thus would be vilifying any other outside religion.
But if this is what you have chosen, right or wrong,good or bad,it is your choice!
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.(NKJV)
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.(NLT)
I guess no one saw how inefficient it is to create billions of planets and only have one actually provide the ability to produce life. Also note, the guy is all powerful, all knowing, and has an issue with running the universe. God, by his own assertions, is like a genie, a genie that gives no fucks about hypocritical teachings, or recording its words more permanently than in a book changed multiple times over the years. This isn't cross examination, it is blatant lies.
Dooba101 20 hours ago
wow.. idiots..
phibersunos 22 hours ago
He does realize fine tuning limits how god can create a universe to allow life meaning he is not all powerful and has to follow certain laws just to create things, and also if you change the four forces all at once you can create a universe. The fine tuning argument just shows that god is not all powerful, and the anthropic principle is basing the whole of the universe on life when you could take out all the galaxies and stars and the universe would be much the same.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 2 months ago
@Requiemxtoxinnocence He's insinuating that God created the anthropic principals and they limit the creation, not God. (e.g. the gravitational constant is God's design.) As far as the other galaxies are concerned, the second law of thermal dynamics would cause our galaxy to be much more short lived. (that is to say, without the thermal bumper in the finite past our galaxy would be much closer to heat death. Since the universe is ever expanding.)
OnyxMass 1 month ago
@OnyxMass It's a limitation to god, by saying something is fine tuned you then put specific laws and sciences as a limitation to how one can create and further bind them to him making him not all powerful. Our galaxy is actually on a head on collision with the Andromeda galaxy, so we're screwed no matter what and our sun will burn us long before that. Some religious people actually pose that god will stop the heat death which I find a bit odd.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 1 month ago
@Requiemxtoxinnocence I don't see a problem with God being limited. Though fine tuning isn't a limitation. The best explanation I can think of (right now) for how fine tuning works is as follows. Say your holding water in your hands. Since, the water is being contained within your hand it doesn't fall to the ground. But, it can still be dropped, shaken, (to make waves) among other things. The norm of the water not falling out is only because it is being held in place.
OnyxMass 1 month ago
@OnyxMass From your suggestion then that would mean that the universes parts were already there and god simply put them into a different state, this is different than creating from nothing. But I don't see why the universe couldn't simply be in a chaotic state until it formed into what it is now and then being the first uncaused cause. But your analogy is understandable.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 1 month ago
@Requiemxtoxinnocence I'm saying that god created time,space and matter as well as the anthropic principals. The anthropic principals are designed in a way that they can be exchanged/rearranged/bent with/to new principals if it suits God's needs. As far as the chaotic state is concerned. Check out the Borde Guth Vilenkin Theorem on inflationary space times.
OnyxMass 1 month ago
@OnyxMass How can god create time? How does one create matter and energy? These are questions that will need to be answered before a god can become something more than a hypothesis. Furthermore the anthropic principle is really sketchy, considering we don't know what other reasons there could be for a universe. The universe is also quite hostile to life, yet quite hospitable to the destructive forces that eradicate life.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 1 month ago
Seems like an awful lot of work, and an awful waste of space when God could have simply just put everybody in heaven right away!
Aphex217Twin 7 months ago
@Aphex217Twin
You dont say to your boss how to do his work, he tells you : )
Harakat123 3 months ago
or she, haha
Harakat123 3 months ago
@Aphex217Twin You're right: it SEEMS to be so.
abbielayla 2 months ago
So, the entire universe is set up just so man can exist on an insignificant planet on the fringe of a lackluster galaxy? Seems a bit of overkill.
So, what are Turek's credentials to be able to intelligently talk about cosmology? Absolutely none? Go figure.
CamW30 8 months ago
..."It's not fine tuned or tweaked"
Watch this video again lol
camthejock 8 months ago
0% of the universe that we know as of now, are inhabitable. (Yes, I know it's 0,0000......1)
78% of Earth is covered in water.
1/3 of the remaining 22% consists of mountains, deserts and ice caps.
That leaves about 15% left for us.
15% which is safe enough that we might live there, though in constant fear of hypothermia, overheating, earthquakes, volcanoes, monsoons, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, lightning storms, and so forth.
Yeah, Earth was probably created for humans. lol
Skitlus 1 year ago 2
@Skitlus Of the universe, how much do we actually know? my bet is 0.0000000..............1% if even that.
Your argument is an ad ignoranum logical fallacy.
Microtardz 11 months ago
@Microtardz
Problem is, I was talking mainly about Earth, which Christians, and Creationists especially, claim was made for us by a superior being, yet even the 15% we can live on are mostly dangerous due to wild life and natural disasters.
Skitlus 11 months ago
@Skitlus You watched this video for a reason. If you dont believe in God then dont waste your time on a video about Him.
camthejock 8 months ago
You're a moron sir. Life could possibly arise in areas we could not. The universe is not specifically tweaked for us, but instead, we are specifically tweaked for this world. We have evolved and adapted to this world. That is why if we went to mars, we would die without proper protection of course.
Whats more, is just because our human notion of life, doesn't exist on the planets we have found it not to exist, doesn't mean a non-human notion of life, doesn't exist on them.
Microtardz 1 year ago
@Microtardz So where are these non-human life forms?
therealhardrock 11 months ago
@therealhardrock up your ass dumb ass.
Didn't read the whole thing??? It says Human Notions, not non-human life forms.
Meaning it could be a form of life that we're ignoring.
Where are they? The question is, how do you know they're not on your hands?
Something so insignificant, that we'd never consider it, but it exists none-the-less.
We don't even know 0% of the universe. Any arguments to the contrary fail.
Microtardz 11 months ago
@Microtardz You're just making a random claim with no scientific basis. Unless you can find evidence, of these "not human notions of life" your claim has no foundation to stand on.
therealhardrock 11 months ago
@Microtardz Read "A Brief History In Time" by Stephen Hawking when he describes the expansion rate of the universe, and then tell me that the universe is not tweaked or fine tuned.
c'mon man!
camthejock 8 months ago
@camthejock Read it, it's not fine tuned or tweaked.
I love how you're like, if you don't believe in god then don't waste your time on a video about him.
Do you not want atheists to believe in your god? Or do you want us to be ignorant of him period because that helps your arguments out more??
You could be like YOU NEVER READ THE BIBLE! And since your logic states that we shouldn't because we don't believe in god, that means we didn't.
No, fuck your standard.
Microtardz 8 months ago
He's misrepresenting the anthropic principle. The anthropic principle states that due to the trillions of trillions of planets in existence, even if their is a case for life to arise one time out of a billion their is still areas where life will occur.
TheCarpecarp 1 year ago
The silliest agglomeration of stupid ideas, wrong theories, non-sequitur's ever assembled to try to explained what science had already got an answer for.
"Not all opinions are equal. Some are a great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others" - D. Adams
bersa888 1 year ago
im not religious at all, but u guys are missing the interpretation of god. GOD is ALL. hes within us and everything else. just believe and have faith and stay positive minded.
MrCarnage7 1 year ago
@MrCarnage7
in what way do you consider yourself not to be religious?
TheCarpecarp 1 year ago
God is out of this world and people who believe in him, are out of their mind
UninstallingWindows 1 year ago
well done frank - blast them with amazing scientific fact then try to attach your silly god rubbish to it at the end. why can't religeous people see through this crap ?
peterwetton 1 year ago
we haven't even investigated the universe, holy shit, we know nothing about our universe... god doesn't need something to support life, he could just use magic, we wouldn't even need oxygen... we could live on fairy floss mountains and have an alice in wonderland world or an avatar planet...
we live in a very NATURAL world. we're a beautiful cosmic fuck up... and there has to be more.. put up your pink into the sky, 1/85th of the sky has been measured, containing 7500 galaxies.
lukeism2 1 year ago
Wow, that was an abysmal display of logic.
FreneticArray 1 year ago
This makes sense to some people? I don't understand how his 'logic' is even considered a valid argument
bryanandhallie 1 year ago
If "god" created everything, why would he need Jupiter's gravity to clean all the "space junk"? Why would god just not have the meteors come near us?
rmharrison35 1 year ago
thoguht the same thing
warhammermichael 1 year ago
Great post! Thanks. It's overwhelming to think how much power God had to have to be able to create this vast universe and pour so much energy into it. What is more awesome is the fact that He wants to know us personally. He has given us so much.
Mulehead54 1 year ago
id rather god come see me personaly then make me have to wonder if hes real and maybe i suffer eternal damnation because of the free will he gave me...id rather be a slave for all eternity than go to hell....wheres the free will in that?
warhammermichael 1 year ago
@warhammermichael I am sorry, but I really don't understand your post, particularly the slave comment. As to the free will, you just expressed your preference, so there is the free will.
Mulehead54 1 year ago
WHAT. A. CREEEEPER.
Gretaleine 2 years ago
No evidence presented.... moving on... sigh...
hutchings000 2 years ago
All i heard from this is...
The solar system is really really big. Planet jokes. ...installing fear over Shuttle Crash.
saying the universe is immense is no evidence of a supernatural being.
MidnightPancakes 2 years ago
@MidnightPancakes true, but a perfectly balanced universe that follows intelligent, unwritten laws and patterns (like gravity and thermodynamics) is evidence of an architect of some kind. Denying that would be like denying that entire cities with buildings and roads and underground utility infrastructures are all evidence of someone that designed them. Well, maybe I'm wrong. I guess over trillions of years it might be possible for an entire working city to appear from an explosion and evolution.
shawn76o 1 year ago
@shawn76o No, That's is a broad over generalization. It's intellectually lazy. I don't deny that there could be a god. In fact, I'm a deist. However, the Christian Bible's perspective (regardless of language or translation) on the origin of the universe is so distorted that you have to use scare tactics, ignorance, and subjective self delusion in order to believe it. What would should believe in this universe is from what is observably consistent... like the radioactive dcay of elements... etc
MidnightPancakes 1 year ago
@MidnightPancakes What may be known of God is manifest in all people, for God has shown it to them. Since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools... Rom 1
shawn76o 1 year ago
@shawn76o So are you calling me dark hearted? : / rather sad for you to throw that at me if that's what you're trying to get at. I was a Christian for 15 years, I never professed to be wise. I studied the Bible in both Greek and Hebrew. However, still I came to the solution that I did when I was 6 that the Creation story was written be people who had know idea how to describe their universe. Now, I freed myself from Christianity, I truly appreciate my own life and others more with a honest heart
MidnightPancakes 1 year ago
@shawn76o The Key is cities don't emerge randomly like that because THEY ARE UNNATURAL. Most things humans do go against normal natural processes. Evolution is a natural biological process. Abiogenesis is based on natural processes. To me, the universe is a cycle of these processes and I take joy in the fact that I am a self aware being that can view and appreciate these cycles
MidnightPancakes 1 year ago
Frank,
since you KNOW that the universe represents God's fingerprints - now show us how you link them to God.
Just like in a murder case, show us the match:
Here the fingerprints on the murder weapon and there the fingerprints of God taken by you.
Come on: Show us how you take the fingerprints of God!
But don't forget to apply the same scientific methods when taking the fingerprints of God, as were used to discover all the fascinating things in the universe!
manu191357 2 years ago 2
@manu191357 Are you serious? You want God's fingerprints? Even if it were possible to do so, you would still deny it. Nobody is going to prove anything to you. All of the evidence that God would have you to see is available to you. You say the evidence is not scientific, which is true. Science has no room for the supernatural, only the tangible. So then you have a choice; put your faith in science alone, or acknowledge the limitations of science and understand there are things far greater.
shawn76o 1 year ago
The vastness of space truly is mind boggling.
germans1 2 years ago
If the universe is so finely-tuned for us, why can't we live in most of it?
manu191357 2 years ago
good point....maybe it means we wernt supposed to live anywhere but here....the fishtank theory? lol
warhammermichael 1 year ago
@manu191357 The universe is finely-tuned in order for life to thrive on Earth. Think about it. You don't ask why, if your car is so finely-tuned for you, why can't you drive it from the trunk, or ride under the hood... if your house is built so nicely for you, why can't you live in the sewage pipes? That's ridiculous. Why would you want to live in the plumbing of the universe, anyway?
shawn76o 1 year ago
@manu191357 u sound like a whining little girl. why must we be able to live in all the universe for it to be created by God?
123451417 1 year ago
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@123451417
'u sound like a whining little girl...'
Don't worry - I am not whining!
I just disagree with Frank that the universe is so finely-tuned for us.
manu191357 1 year ago
No one knows if we can or can't live in most of the universe. No one has been able to find out. It's all based on opinions, or what they think (same rule for meteorologists - they say there is no rain for tomorrow, but, sure enough, it rains). Just a thought.
spacitydrummer4JC 1 year ago
Frank hijacks science to prove his religious points like Jack Van Impe uses "today's headlines".
I guess he rejects sola scriptura.
MrOldSlacker 2 years ago
The universe, being as big as it is, makes the probability that there will be life SOMEWHERE in its vastness fairly probable. If we all die (as the bible predicts), there's no reason the rest of the universe can't go along just fine. Would it be too much to postulate that it could have been here (and in a much better condition) if we had not? The idea that if we are here, the universe must be as it is (just as likely from random occurrence as from God), makes the point moot.
Wowaddict1701 2 years ago
Your whole argument is a postulation and your claim of life existing elsewhere in the universe is without evidence. Your entire comment is moot.
levigorin 2 years ago
Hence why I said "postulate".
Take away the pomp and circumstance, and it's not so compelling. Take a away the Jesus juice and it's a fun little astronomical symposium. He gives no empirical evidence as to why God exists. It's all more "we don't understand something so somebody else must have done it." Is there a reason to think so? Some self-righteous Christians feel the need to antagonize people (surprise, surprise) over a matter of belief. And it goes back farther than atheists.
Wowaddict1701 2 years ago
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levigorin 2 years ago
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levigorin 2 years ago
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levigorin 2 years ago
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levigorin 2 years ago
Maybe not here... why not somewhere else?
Pazako 2 years ago
I'm failing to see any proof here but doesn't listening to people talk science and the universe capture the imagination
Bauks 2 years ago
IF I teleported you to a random place in the universe you would die instantly 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time. Sounds designed to me.......Would you call I car that doesn't start 99.9999....% of the time a good design?
TheFluffyDuck 2 years ago
people dont disagree with the points hes making, but why does this prove there is a god
thenenini 2 years ago
So let me get this straight, god created the universe and put jupiter there to take care of space junk and to protect the earth? Is he then saying that god cannot control space junk by not creating it in the first place? What about the ones that got through? Just does not make any sense!
EchosFromaBlankMind 2 years ago
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memoryhero 3 years ago
if the ratio of the elements of air - oxygen,
nitrogen and the inert mixed gases were off by 1% we would be intoxicated, retarded or dead.
TheygotSkylar 3 years ago
So by saying that Jupiter is a sort of vacume cleaner, you are saying that god in all of his wisdom and power cannot control asteroids or meteors and can not just wipe the universe clean of space debris? You are also assuming that the earth was placed in its precise location to support us, maybe we exist because it is in the right place and we adapted as the planets atmosphere was able to support life. (Cambrian Explosion). Does this really point to a God? Naaaah!
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
God in his wisdom and power created Jupiter to do the job. Why always wipe asteroids away when a planet can do that automatically? Usually a complex and detailed painting is more beautiful than a simple one, and I believe that God made the universe complex partially for the same reason.
48893 3 years ago
So by you saying that god created Jupiter to do the job, that he does not really have total control over the earth and the universe. Could he not control the asteroids to avoid us altogether? And how about the ones that got through, was god sleeping at the wheel? Too bad god can't explain it to us in person. Has anyone seen him lately? Anything any one says is speculation. Until the big invisible guy tells us in person, he is either dead, does not exist or just does not care!
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
Well, I haven't seen God, but I've felt his precense very strongly. That's why my faith is as strong as it is. I don't really understand why Jupiter would be proof of God not being in total control. I'm sure God is ABLE to control asteroids without using Jupiter, and as big as the universe is, we can't really say whether he does it or not. We can't understand God. Watch from 7:39 again.
48893 3 years ago
Either god does, or he does not rule the universe, you can't pick and choose. Feeling his prescense is not proof of his existence anymore then the bible is. As for Jupiter, how many asteroids were let to pass and connect with earth, was that gods plan also? All I am hearing is excuses and speculation for someone who is not there. Is he really infinite? is that why we do not see him, because he is not there. His mere existence would violate the first and second law of thermo dynamics.
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
"Either god does, or he does not rule the universe, you can't pick and choose."
I agree 100%, and I believe that God rules the universe.
"As for Jupiter, how many asteroids were let to pass and connect with earth, was that gods plan also?"
I don't know.
Actually, all I'm hearing from you too is excuses and speculation.
Have you seen the wind? I bet not. But still you know that it's there, right? Things doesn't have to be visible to us to exist.
48893 3 years ago
I'm not trying to prove God's existence. I want to answer your questions.
48893 3 years ago
Actualy if you beleive that god exist, you should be presenting arguments to validify him. Unless you feel that you cannot clarify his existence and wish to keep his existence in a supernatural state. If he does exist, he sure has a strange way of presenting himself. Such as, when someone has cancer or other disease and is miraculesly cured, they say god performed a miracle. When was the last time god regrew an amputees stump?is he prejudice against amputees,is that beyond him,or just not there!
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
Have you seen the wind? Sorry but those type of arguments are sensless along with you cant see air. But lets follow your logic for a second. Wind can't be seen, but it can be measured and its effects seen, air cannot be seen, yet if we put you in a sealed environment and remove the air you die. We can also use meters to determine what the percentage of oxygen, hydrogen and other inert gases are available. Remove god from the equation and nothing changes, just maybe less wars in his name.
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
God IS supernatural, and I haven't tried to prove that He's not, because He is. He's not bound to obey the laws of nature. He created them! I've heard about God regrowing legs and stuff, and in the Bible Jesus heals an ear that has been cut off. So He's not prejudice, He knows everything about everyone. Since He can create a universe, it definitely isn't BEYOND him.
48893 3 years ago
I myself were healed by God from lactose intolerance few weeks ago after praying and again, being touched by God, so for me it's very valid proof that He exists. I can't convince you about God's existence using arguments or by speaking from experience, so I'll leave that to God himself.
48893 3 years ago
Either you didn't get my point when I wrote about the wind, or then I didn't get the point with your response.
48893 3 years ago
I got your point, Just because we cannot see it does not mean it does not exist. But your examples are tangible and can be proven quite simply. Even by the bibles standard where Jesus says that if you call upon him he will show himself, which is either a lie or just cant be done due to non existence. The bible which is supposed to be the word of god is riddled with inaccuracies and errors.I guess if it makes you feel better to believe then more power to you, but don't pass it off as fact!its not
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
How do you know that if you did not pray, you would have still healed up! See the studies, prayer did not improve the actual outcome of physical issues, however it did make some feel better, but they still died anyway. You say he exists, where is he? can we go vist or see pictures of him? There are no gods, devils, angels, and I can prove it,there are none to be seen. Why do they hide if they exist,why are they not an every day occurance. Even a king comes out once in awhile to view his subjects
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
God doesn't hide. He only shows himselves to those who want him. If you choose to reject him, he lets you choose..
I would like to have a respectable arguement with you. If you messge me. I have read your points and it has only strengthen my faith.
goxjr41 2 years ago
"God doesn't hide. He only shows himselves to those who want him. If you choose to reject him, he lets you choose."
Yes god does hide, when was the last time nayone physicaly saw him. As for the statement of showing himself only to thode that want him, sounds more elitist then a statement of fact. Does he really give you free choice? Lets see, God loves you and he wants you to accept him, but if you don't you burn in hell for eternity with some creature tearing at your flesh! What a choice!
EchosFromaBlankMind 2 years ago
He doesn't send you to hell. Hell isn't "burning". Its total seperation from God. Thats it. He lets you freely choose it.
Your idea of hell and God are wrong.
goxjr41 2 years ago
It's what I have been saying all along,no one agrees on anything,you say no burning hell, the other guys say a lake that burns eternally with a 15 foot demon ripping your flesh. One guy says all you have to be is a good person, while the other one says that god requires a blood sacrafice. The more people tell me about god/religion, the happier I am about my atheistic choice. My story remains the same, no god, no religion, simple and sweet, sweetly simple. Let me know when you all sort it out.
EchosFromaBlankMind 2 years ago
But your basing your beliefs on what others think. Your not basing them on truth. But Christianity doesn't call on religion, it calls on a relationship. Like i said your concept of God is wrong, probably because of what people told you or what you have been brought up in. But im saying if you look at purely the facts, believing in God is more logical then not believing in Him. Dont worry about other beliefs.
goxjr41 2 years ago
TRUTH! Thats a statement that is being tested! Others would disagree with you as for concepts of god. Exactly what facts would make it more logical to believe in a currently living god, then to dismiss gods existence? As for your statement "Dont worry about other beliefs" That seems to me to be a slightly bit hypocritical, you want an atheist to keep an open mind, but only if I follow what you say as being right, yet all those other older religions are just dead wrong! cant wait for reply!
EchosFromaBlankMind 2 years ago
Are we talking about religion or God? Theres a difference.
goxjr41 2 years ago
If you think that you can remove religion from god, then lets talk about god. If you are one of those that if something ismade, then it must have a creator. Then who created god? thats when most people will use logic, and then all of a sudden the supernatural kicks in. What about god created us, but he himself has moved on and has kicked the bucket, just like all things natural. To believe that god currently exists is a stretch, great claims require great proof, so far god has remained hidden.
EchosFromaBlankMind 2 years ago
Not necessarily. If we believe that God is the Creator of all things. That means he is the creator of time itself. Therefor God is outside of time because he created it. He does not need to be created. Thats were the word eternal came from. I have some sources if you would like to see..
goxjr41 2 years ago
Thats right!, If we beleive god is the creator of all things. So by god not needing to be created, something can come from nothing! Your going all supernatural on me, Santa Clause also fits into the god description. He creates toys from nothing, knows when your awake, knows if you've been bad or good, and can deliver toys around the world to millions of children in one night! Maybe there is a reason that god is always depicted with a grey long beard? HoHoHo, or should I say Amen, Amen, Amen!
EchosFromaBlankMind 2 years ago
Right, but there is compelling evidence for a Creator of the Universe then some made up person name Santa. Sorry bud that arguement is old.
goxjr41 2 years ago
The difference between you and I is that I will listen to a statement and asess it strong points thus its validity. Using your supernatural argument is counter productive and proves nothing. That term is usualy reserved for statements that have no viable answers. If you are going to say that you heard about god regrowing things, please back up your statements with facts that can be verified. And anything in the bible is only conjecture and cannot be taken as fact.
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
I'm not saying that my supernatural argument proves anything about God's existence.
Watch some of Randall Niles' videos to learn more about the reliability of the Bible, especially all the 5 parts of 'Journey'.
And as I said, I myself can't convince you about something you refuse to believe, and you can't convince me either because of my experiences.
48893 3 years ago
There are more details about how I exactly were healed, as well as there are more things that are valid proof of God to ME, and I completely understand that it's not valid proof to YOU.
BTW, when man fell into sin, he was separated from God. Jesus was sent to take the punishment for our sins (death) upon himself, so we could be forgiven and united with God again. So for those who have accepted Christ, God is, or will shortly become an everyday occurance.
48893 3 years ago
...and those who haven't recieved salvation through Jesus, are still separated from God, which is why there is no sign of Him for them.
48893 3 years ago
Here we go again, if you do not belong to the exclusive club then you cannot see god, just as those who say you must beleive in ghosts in order to see them. I am willing to listen to your thoughts and evaluate their validity, but you are not willing to see my point, that much is true. What would I need to do, by your own admission, in order to see god to set me straight? Please show me the error of my ways! Something tangible,not supernatural. When I stopped believing,is when I felt the happiest
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
Again, please do not use the bible as fact, it is not any more factual then a harry potter book. Again you delve into the realm of the supernatural, with no proof but the bible. Obviously you are just spouting what you have been taught without thinking it through. Please give my regards to the easter bunny and santa claus, who is visiting with the tooth fairy, because according to you, they all exist if we only beleive!
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
It is not something that I refuse to beleive,I was quite religious once. And what would a 15yr old know about life experiance (No offense intended).When I served in the military,saw death first hand,and held dying people in my hands while we were trying to revive them or give CPR. Or the time that 6 children drowned when only 50 yards from shore. If god is put in that equation then we should all be mad as hell. But since he does not exist, it is then just the nature of things, I can accept that!
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
What you need to do to find God? Seek Him honestly. Many times it requires a really desperate situation for a non-believer to honestly call for Gods help.
As for seeing God, you very, very rarely actually SEE him visually. He usually "shows" himself in other ways.
I've been thinking things through a lot and I'm not trying to use the Bible as proof, I'm explaining my worldview. I get your point and I understand, and I'm very sorry to hear about your life experinces.
48893 3 years ago
I don't think santa claus or any other of those things exists if you just believe in them, but I understand that you put God in the same category as them because for YOU there is just as much proof for God as there is for the easter bunny.
48893 3 years ago
No not for me! For everyone. Using your own argument, just because you do not see them, does not mean they don't exist! Preists and clergy do for god what your mom and dad do for santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny! Except that your parents probably did more for you then any preist or clergy!
I know this sounds silly to you, but the premise is the same. If god is a creator, then who created god? Another supernatural being? If god can step outside of natural laws, then maybe so can we!
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
Thank you for your sincerity, but please do not be sorry about my life experiances, I chose that path and got more then I expected. This is how lives are shaped,not by an ancient tome that is clouded & veiled in ambiguity & questionable validity. I do appreciate you sharing your own views. When I was young I also beleived, but life changed my way of thinking and the lack of religion or god to fulfill my soul. Once I realized my current path, I must say it felt like a weight had been lifted.
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
If my wolrdview was disproven to me, I would not hold on to it, but instead it has been proven to me in a very strong way, and I don't think that you've really understood just HOW strongly. It seems like we aren't really getting anywhere in this discussion anymore, so we don't have to go on unless you want to know more about my belief or experiences. This is one of the most intelligent and respectful discussions I've had with an atheist, so thanks.
48893 3 years ago
I'm not asking you to give up your faith or what you believe,I am just saying think!I feel now we are getting somewhere,what criteria would you need that would make you consider what you have been told all your life? Because if all you make is excuses, then you can never look outside of your world with true sincerity and without pretense and unconditionaly.You must first empty the glass before you can fill it. Thank you for your comments concerning our discussions, I'll take that as a compliment
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
My faith is not based upon what I've been told. It used to be when I was younger, but after some thinking, research, and most of all after PHYSICALLY feeling God's precense, the things that I had been told wasn't the foundation of my faith anymore. So even if the persons that told me about God would take back what they have said, I would still believe. If I was PRETENDING to have a relationship with God, I would have wasted my life, and I wouldn't hold on to my faith.
48893 3 years ago
When I look back at my life, I see the day I made my own decision to follow Jesus as the day when my life really started. It has been AWESOME!
48893 3 years ago
It's interesting to hear a 15 yr old speak religiously & about god & to say that what you have been told is not the foundation of your faith. If you were on a deserted island, I find it hard to believe that you would feel the same, or if you were born in Iraq, Iran or some other muslim country that you would be just as staunch, except for the Islam religion, and thus would be vilifying any other outside religion.
But if this is what you have chosen, right or wrong,good or bad,it is your choice!
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
Your not understand so your arguement fails. Maybe we do exist because were in the exact right place but that still doesn't explain how.
So yes it does point to a Creator.
goxjr41 2 years ago
amen to that brother!! lol. that is true. this guy is good
danielbeez15 3 years ago
amen you dont see them saying anything about this yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh
lilchrizz123 3 years ago
i love frank turek! i just about done with his book "i dont have enough faith to be an atheist"
3superdogs 3 years ago
oh is it good i want to get it
lilchrizz123 3 years ago
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2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.(NKJV)
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.(NLT)
PythonicKenny 3 years ago
The fact that life exists at all is a miricle, Thank you Jesus.
Djw0071 3 years ago
Amen.
lateintheday2007 3 years ago