The Physics of Science Fiction: Electromagnetic Pulse

[murphynapoleon]

Rubbish.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@murphynapoleon Any chance of being more specific? We have a higher expectation of articulation on this forum

[FrankaDith]

Interesting .

[Shipadge]

Aaah it's nuclear fusion not fission. Fission is for nuclear power plants. Fusion is the build up of atoms which leads to a large explosion

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@Shipadge Fusion is the fusing of two small elements into one big one. Thats what the Sun does, takes hydrogen and fuses it into helium, then fuses helium into carbon, etc. Atomic bombs work with Fission, where heavy elements bust apart into little ones. Plutonium fragmentates into Strontium, etc. The exception there is the Hydrogen bomb, where the Plutonium explosion is used to power a supply of helium, causing a fusion reaction, with about 5 times the power of a regular atomic bomb.

[RickMojave]

How long does the effect of an EMP to wear off?

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@RickMojave The EMP is instantaneous, its there then its gone. The problem is that its damage is permanent. Once your circuits are fried they're fried, and the only thing to do is replace them. But when you're talking about circuits for over 100,000,000 devices.... and all those circuits need to be built in factories which are also fried, factories no one can get to cause their cars are fried, on and on. With no electricity you cant fix ANYTHING

[Uaz31]

That would be very effective as a prelude to an invasion but it would not end a war it would add fuel to the fire as you would have an entire country ready and willing out of necessity to kick some ass.

What ya do is after that emp then ya hit em with the ground nukes or full scale air strikes. That would end a war. Ya can't win a war without having to kill and be killed, it just doesn't happen. Great, so now we know how to destroy ourselves, wonderful.

[AtomSmashr]

The EMP commission did an exhaustive analysis on the effects of an EMP attack on the United States and, while it would be very destructive and expensive, it would not destroy all electronics. That would require a large number of weapons. One reason is that the long distance effects are contingent on ionization of the atmosphere and over 40 kilometers the atmosphere is too tenuous. 20 to 30km is more optimal but greatly reduces the effected area.

[AtomSmashr]

... The long wave (less than 1 hertz) flux would cause the most widespread damage. It has a longer duration and greater structural and ground penetration so it would couple to large conducting surfaces such as power lines readily but not to small electrical systems, most of would be protected by transformers. This means that all electronics would not be destroyed, most of the damage would be isolated to equipment directly connected to long distance power lines, pipes and so forth.

[AtomSmashr]

If you read some of the analysis done on realistic EMP threats, nuclear and otherwise, you will find that the catastrophic scenarios are somewhat over-stated. The high frequency flux which shorts out small electronics like computers and cell phones is rapidly absorbed and would not effect the entire continent. More likely a nuclear EMP at optimal altitude would be able to destroy small electronics for hundreds of miles.

[ftlqed]

25 pounds per foot of emp has to make it 300 miles down through water, so you get the ozone layer burning people alive.A giga-cane burrowing a hole to the core of the earth. It has to be done!

[LechuCzechu]

You didn't mention the non-nuclear way to make an EMP:

en.wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Expl­osively_pumped_flux_compressio­n_generator

This device is much cheaper than a nuclear bomb and does not generate fallout, radiation poisoning and is almost impossible to detect by the police if used by a terrorist sleeper cell. Its also safe to handle, easy to store almost indefinitely and the EMP pulse intensity can be calculated to 1%.

[RickMojave]

By far your best video so far! :)

KEEP MAKIN' 'EM!!!

[kokofan50]

The problem with emps is that they are easy to deffend against.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@kokofan50 But you cant put everything inside a Faraday cage. There's millions of cars and computers in USA alone.

[kokofan50]

@SpreadingtheMuse True but you can't stop an army it. The millitey has shelding for it so that if used they can keep fighting the war. Some of the people we fight now days don't even have enough tech to take out with an emp to really be a problem to them. An emp will not win you a war; it is a problem at best.

[srkh28]

@kokofan50 Yeah, your most likely right - but no one did. emp is only easy to protect against by design.

[YouthFreedomFighters]

Guns would still work. A gun does not run on electricity, it operates by burning powder ignited by a primer, so cartridge firearms would still work which means there would still be defense and a means to fight back.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@YouthFreedomFighters Yes, but a defense without radar, or communications, or any kind of sophisticated moving vehicle. A guerilla war.

[Uaz31]

@YouthFreedomFighters

I heard all ignition systems would fail, not even matches would ignite. Only chemical fires would be possible. Car ignitions would not work, guns would not fire and you wouldn't be able to even start a fire as ya would not be able to create a spark. So unless there are fires already burning your gun would be only useful for burning the stock for fuel.

[AtomSmashr]

@Uaz31 That is absurd. EMP effects only electrical conductors. It is theoretically possible that a high enough charge could ignite powder inside bullet casings but even that is nearly impossible. The inverse square law applies to EMP so it's strength dimishes as the inverse square of the distance from the source. Matches use friction to ignite phosphorus and unless an EMP could change the laws of physics these would work fine. So would bullets and anything not reliant on electricity.

[Uaz31]

@AtomSmashr

Perhaps it was not emp but the nuclear fallout I was thinking of. Maybe I am misinformed but I remember learning about the aftermath of a nuclear attack removing the charge from the atmosphere so that one would not be able to create a spark. Perhaps it was an outdated theory. Well thats somewhat comforting to know...I guess.

[Uaz31]

@YouthFreedomFighters

p.s...... get a nice crossbow.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@Uaz31 My low tech defensive arsenal includes a baseball bat and machete. ;)

[NowhereMan1966]

EMP is not the 800 lbs gorilla it is made out to be, more like a 500 lbs one. Most cars are shielded by their bodies like a Farady cage and even if the EMP shuts it down, chances are that you can restart it again. The Navy did experiments on cars where that did happen. Some did have damage to their gauges and one or two did not start. The worst effect would be to the power grid if they cannot get that restarted in a timely manner, the financial sector and general panic that would follow.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@NowhereMan1966 Any car with electronic fuel injection would have its electronics fried. Any motor that predates that wouldnt be affected, but the cars that did would be useless. The injector electronics could possibly be bypassed with some tickering, and then the car would run again (albiet a little more roughly).

But every single computer in the country would be fried and have to be replaced. With so much of the economy tied to those it would be a disastor.

[NowhereMan1966]

@SpreadingtheMuse - I'm not saying it is a problem, believe me, I know about it, I'm a licensed amateur radio operator and work with auto parts. There is a lot to be concerned about EMP but there is a lot of bull out there as well. Auto electronics are designed to work in adverse conditions, heat, cold and high current, so I thin most cars wil lbe fine and most electronics will be OK if not connected to power and antennas (or antennas folded).

[TVperson1]

We'd better get some EMP shielding.

[minrlwtr]

The Book Preppers Road March was a good fiction read of how the residents of Atlanta would possibly be allowed to survive such an event.

[koutaman112]

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get that scene where the earth was being bombarded with nukes?

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@koutaman112

Bombarded being seen from space? That was from Battlestar Galactica, the made for Sci Fi move "The Plan."

[koutaman112]

@SpreadingtheMuse ok, thanks.

[f4llenSk4ter]

Tony stark, "People say an affective weapon is one you never have to fire,I disagree,an affective weapon is one you only have to fire ONCE"

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@f4llenSk4ter I ripped off Tony Stark? Didnt even occur to me. Ironic with all the Iron Man footage in here.

[f4llenSk4ter]

@SpreadingtheMuse haha,indeed it is.

[albertosapiens1]

North Korea developing EMP nuclear bombs by Wikipedia

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@albertosapiens1

That makes me feel better ;(

[CapricornKids]

Any idea on how to block and/or repair the effects of this?

[albertosapiens1]

@CapricornKids I guess it will be replacing damaged parts manufactured uh... where?.... brought with.... what?.....

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@CapricornKids

Repair? No.

Block? One chance. Something called a "Faraday Cage." It'll block it alright, but google how to make one, not practical on a large scale.

[FearlessSon]

This is actually one of the things that they use nukes specifically for in the Halo series. Covenant energy shields give their ships a huge tactical advantage over human ones, so humans use the EMP from a nuke in space to disable them. However, detonating that EMP to take down the Covenant shields without disabling the human's own fleet and timing the projectile weapon launch (keeping in mind stellar distances) to hit before the Covenant get their shields back up is rather tricky.

[JazzmanMjolnir]

There's a mistake. A Faraday cage protects all the electronic you put inside of it. For example, the rocket silos has huge cages inside their walls... and internal cages on their computers.

The obvious problem with this is the volume of the protection, and the price and many others.

But I don't know if only a nuke at 300 miles can destroy the USA... because the Earth has a natural protectión agains the EM radiation (the Van Alen Belts...), but i'm not sure of their size.

However, a great video.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@JazzmanMjolnir

Yes the Faraday Cage, insulating your electronics with a grounded metal screen. But explaining that and why it worked would have taken a whole other movie.

I got the 300 miles direct from military testimony given to congress about EMP threats. The VABs are magnetic belts, but gamma radiation doesnt have a magnetic charge (alpha is positive and beta is negative) so the belts wouldnt stop it at all.

[sparrowlt]

Nice video... quite perfectly explained..

Tought military industries are makign weapons, planes and vehicles inmune to EMP pulses.. the russian MIG-25 had "old" electronics like vacuum valves, but that made it theorically inmune to EMP pulses so it would continue to operate after nuclear blasts..

Also the most basic electronics shouldnt be affected.. diesel generators should still generate electricity to light bulbs and electric heating

[SVOddball]

And to think all this time I thought the world's most potent weapon was armies of school girls...Japanese Anime you have mislead me!

Nice to see you back making videos again.

[Unther]

Another great video explaining another effect of the nuclear bomb. If you now cover how a neutron bomb works (also something that might be used in future wars), I think you'll have covered most of the "nuclear stuff". :)

Any ideas for future projects? Maybe analyzing FTL-drive-ideas in SciFi-movies? Or how a teleporter might work?

[shanedk]

This was the premise of the TV show Dark Angel.

But aren't the effects of an EMP temporary? How long would it take to get everything back online?

[EvanMe]

It seems to me that EMPs in films are always shown as being their own entities, rather than the byproduct of a fusion reaction. Is there any way to produce an EMP capable of disrupting electronics but without the other destructive effects of a detonation?

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@EvanMe

Yes. You could do it with a huge electromagnet too. Anything that can change the electric charge in an area. I chose the nuke just to show how easy it was. One terrorist at 300 miles up and boom. The electromagnets wouldnt be as powerful.

[Karadum]

@SpreadingtheMuse It is actually in the aim of contemporary military developement to find a non-nuke cost firendly (at least in military terms) EMP weapon.

The only thing I lacked in this vid hard was the possibility to shield your systems against EMPs. As for example the USSR army was running all on old vacuum tube-like electronicts as those were supposed to be resistant to EMPs.

[buckaroohawk]

Another incredible video, but I can't believe you missed one of the best examples of this subject from the movies; "Escape from LA," where at the end of the film Snake Plissken does exactly what you're talking about, only he plunges the entire world into permanent darkness.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@buckaroohawk

Oh I didnt forget ;) I burned all the Escape from LA EMP scenes, but they ended up not making the cut. The obligatory scene where they explain the EMP was about how pinpoint their system was, opposite of what I was saying. And they used satellites instead of nukes. And the big EMP scene was a huge letdown, just a few floodlights on the base and Snake winking out. Not visual enough at all and way too dark. But I'm glad you remembered ;)

[buckaroohawk]

@SpreadingtheMuse Actually, I should have known that you would have at least thought about using those scenes from EFLA, considering your obviously extensive knowledge of sci-fi films. After you pointed out the differences to the subject of your video I understand why they didn't make the cut.

Hard to believe just one nuke 300 miles up would frak the entire US power system. Kinda makes the "Duck and Cover" stuff from the Cold War Era seem tame by comparison. Thanks for the response!

[starknight97]

love your stuff. too be sorted out it has too be on or power.Most modern e.q. don't turn off the batt has too be pulled then many have more. then the -DB from a trashcan is enough too protect a computer. This weapon only effects advance country's as a waring 3rd or 4th world nation might not even notice. Because that gun will still fire more so the ak47. air-force 1 is shielded from emp as well as any e.q. underground deep enough as the emp charge gets grounded. easy come easy go is true though.

[AstralDragoon]

Hey anybody, I have a question about nukes. I read once that if a person is caught in the blast radius of a fission bomb, the heat is so intense that they spontaneously combust in a fraction of a second, essentially vaporizing. However, in these movies, it always seems to take a lot longer, long enough that people still have time to run around. Which is more true-to-life?

[TheHappyFriar]

@AstralDragoon People survived the two bombs dropped in Japan during WWII, so I'd say there's a chance people could survive/escape (those were very tiny bombs compared to what we have now though, maybe good enough for an EMP though!)

[AstralDragoon]

@TheHappyFriar  Do you know how far away they were?

[lordgarethantle]

just a question, although modern cars have a lot of computers in them, would a EMP stop an internal combustion engine?

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@lordgarethantle

Something like a lawn mower wouldnt be hurt, no electronics at all. So all older cars would be fine. The TNT series Falling Skies, which has the earth victimized by an alien EMP, makes small note of that fact.

[TheHappyFriar]

I haven't seen RoboJocks since I was a kid. Awesome. :)

[MisterKeitel]

Muse. Good to see you back again. How long would this EMP last? Days? Years? Forever?  Would it depend on the size of the blast?

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@MisterKeitel

The EMP itself is instantaneous. The problem is the damage it does. Anything it touches shorts out and is fried. So any and all electronics have to be replaced. But if it happens to a whole country at once, how the hell can you replace all that? It would take years, with no cars or computers to help. By then, you're screwed.

[Lordsuhn]

Nicely done. I did not realize that EMP was line of site - that is a game changer. - An excellent case for working on EM shielding!

[WackyAmoebatrons]

Thanks and welcome back! The audio quality is better than in the past, but still could be improved--this is from a non-native speaker...

[BizzLeVrai]

what is the old movie you show

look interesting

[Baloth86]

@BizzLeVrai Pause at 11:44 ^^ It's Robot Jox!

I wanted to ask too but then i saw this 1 sec. text and wanted to know what it says... Good i didn't ask ;P

Very interesting Video! But how big does this Bomb have to be? How long does the Blackout last? Won't radiation be a Problem, or will it be so far in space that it isn't?

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@Baloth86 The EMP itself is instantaneous. The problem is the damage it does. Anything it touches shorts out and is fried. So any and all electronics have to be replaced. But if it happens to a whole country at once, how the hell can you replace all that? It would take years, with no cars or computers to help, and you're in the total dark while you do it. By then, you're screwed. And radiation wouldnt be a problem. 300 miles is too far away

[TheHappyFriar]

@SpreadingtheMuse Would all electrical components be fried or just ones currently receiving power? Say I have a drawer full of battery's, diodes, resisters, etc. Would they be fried? Is there a certain thickness of earth/concrete this couldn't go though? It was only about 50 years ago most things were done mechanical with minimal electronic intervention, I'm sure there's people around now who could get things up and running (not fast enough though)

[BizzLeVrai]

I learn a lot THANK YOU

[ThatsMrFrank]

ooohhh I knew this one!

one nuke a few hundred miles up emp's a continent

[ThatsMrFrank]

YAY! I missed these videos!

[ig33ku]

If I remember correctly if there is an EMP blast all u have to do is make sure all ur electronic stuff is off.... n maybe replace a few capacitors.

[trekkie117]

5:42

i thin kit's fair to say that we all know that a jet engine would most likely not be affected by an EMP as they are not run by electricity

still, it's gotta be stressful flying an airliner with no instruments

[OttomanDrifter91]

@trekkie117 yeh its running on fuel but fuel pumps, regulators, injectors and even sensors of fuel tanks run on electricity so i'm not gonna try to explain how f***'ed up its gonna be when you cant control the thing you fly, its actually more devastating than we could ever imagine :(

[trekkie117]

@OttomanDrifter91 i keep forgetting about those fuel pumps and what not. also, there is a possibility that you might yet be able to control an aircraft post-EMP. it's entirely reliant on you having phisical cables as opposed to fly-by-wire

[Talon3000]

He's alive! Wohoo!

[PSshadow92]

I didn't know nuke's cause that. What a disturbing thought. Y'know, It would suck if someone's only been alive this long because of technology, fell victim to an EMP. For instance, I've got cystic fibrosis. EMP happens, there'd be no point in panicking. Seriously. I'm about seven years overdue as is. Goodbye technology, goodbye me, and anyone else who qualifies, like diabetics. No, I'm just gonna sit back, relax, have a root beer float, and greet Death like an old friend. Panic is overrated.

[ig33ku]

@PSshadow92 I would think good majority of others would like to tweet/fb about it.

[Holammer]

Awesome video, but how about EMP shielding? How does that work, does it work? :)

[AstralDragoon]

@Holammer I've heard of a device called a Faraday cage. If you place it around the object you want to shield, I think it acts like a lightning rod, absorbing and grounding the incoming EMP.

[Holammer]

@AstralDragoon Yes, I thought of that myself. Mythbusters did a really good demonstration of one. Could the principles behind them be useful in smaller everyday devices.

[AstralDragoon]

@Holammer Well, I looked up a Faraday cage on Wikipedia, and from what I understand from that information, a tiny cage wouldn't be able to absorb the radiation because it doesn't have as large a field to spread it over.

[TheOneSourceOfTruth]

As usual, you explain physical effects in a brilliant way to people who have no idea.

You should start to teach physics at a university again...

[Pacober1]

great video

[ricepaddy69]

Besides Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Iron Man, Moonraker, and the Matrix (maybe Terminator II also?), I'm not sure what the other movies are. Can someone fill me in on the rest please, especially the older ones with the Einstein quote, the battling robots, and the boy who looks into the explosion? Thanks.

[Killersepp]

@ricepaddy69 The Einstein quote, the boy looking into the flash (as well as some other scenes) are from "The Day After". The giant fighting mechs are, as mentioned ate the end of the video, from "Robot Jox".

[ricepaddy69]

@Killersepp Sweet, thanks. As you can see, I need to build on my sci-fi movie base, which I think is a little limited. If there are any more, keep them coming.

[Killersepp]

@ricepaddy69: You're welcome. Allthough "The Day After" isn't Science Fiction, but an Anti-War movie. And a real, REAL downer - with a bald Stephen Gutenberg. You have been warned! ;-)

[ricepaddy69]

@Killersepp A real downer? Oh, boy. Guess I'll look for it, then pop it in when I'm really depressed. =) ... or is it X*(

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@ricepaddy69

The scenes I showed you from Day After of the mushroom clouds, in the original movie then cut straight to hundreds of people being incinerated alive while screaming. They cut that scene out whenever its rerun on basic cable. Its whiteknuckle.

[ricepaddy69]

@SpreadingtheMuse Wow. Looks and sounds like this will be scarier than any horror movie can muster up. Brace myself?

[shedininja001]

oh no! thats messed up!

[billyboyjennings]

@SpreadingtheMuse

What's your favorite Sci-Fi universe?

[SpreadingtheMuse]

@billyboyjennings

Tough choice. SW gets the most devotion, but Battlestar is in these movies more, and Space Above and Beyond is a long lost flame, B5 has the geek credential, etc.

[SpaceNinja197]

I think there maybe, saying maybe here, some sort of insolation for computer hardware to high levels of electromagnticism but I don't think we have any that can stand up to one made by a Nuke.

[aarontaylor94]

so the ultimate weapon is an electric pulse that has no effect on guns and diesel trucks

[EnderGhost119]

@aarontaylor94 Factories that make bullets are affected, and oil rigs that get oil for trucks are too.

So, how good are you at one shot one kill?

[aarontaylor94]

@EnderGhost119 who said i'd have so little ammo

i'm from texas, we have more ammo for all the guns in one store than we could waste

and why waste a good bullet

[SpaceNinja197]

#2 thier bright. *child stares into nuclear detenation and suffers* lol moment

[shedininja001]

yay!!!!!!!!!

[gunttoo]

better take some survival lessons..

or move in with the Amish...

[Krellnus]

Great like always!

[dackjack]

woah its been a while since a video from your channel

welcome back :D