this man will stay in history as one of the greatest statesmen of our times a man of honesty n princible to make his country proud to make us all proud sir with great respect i admire u deeply and am greek
bu basbakan beceremiyor. eger bizim askeri gemimize düsman saldirip sehit verdiysek neden bunun üstüne bir savas olusmadi! onlar yerlerinde oturup gülüp eglenmislerdi bizim analarimis yillar boyunca ogullarina aglarken. yaziklar olsun tayyip 9 milyon yahudilerden ve amerikalilardan korkuyorsun!
@arif2739 SEN GERCEKTEN GARIPSIN AMA GERCEKTEN! HEP SAVAS SAVAS? SAVASLA NEREYE GELINMIS BU ZAMANA KADAR EY GARIP COCUK? BOYCOT, DIPLOMATIK BAGI KOPARMAK VE GELECEKTE ELINI ISRAELDEN CEKMEK COK DAHA KARLIDIR BIZIM ICIN, GIT BIRAZ KITAB OKU SAVASLAR NE YAPMIS BU ZAMANA KADAR...
ISLAM-Fasizminin Liderleri Tayyip ve Abdullah son yapilan Gazeteci tutuklamalarinda bizzat kendileri sorumludur. Ve bu Sorumlu Islam Diktatörleri bunun cezasini Sikilerek ödeyecekler
Mr. Erdogan is a brave and wise man. I deeply respect him and he should be respected by all those who fear the terrorist, Zionist, Nazi State of Israel, who feels that she can commit every type of crime under the sun, and not be accountable because she is protected by of America. God bless Mr. Erdogan, his is a hero.
and not just this islami turks have killed 1,6 milion Armenians you comited genocide against Assyrians as well.Turkey is still terrorising and ocupying Kurdistan and suronding Kurds and Turkey is ocupying Cyprus ilegaly.Turkey have comited genocides against south slavs and even the whole of your nation was created in kidnaping children to janisseries and on genocide against Byzantine.There has hardly ewer been a nation with more inocent blood on their hands than Turkey
@Tomislavv2 These are right facts.. I just could`nt remember , because there is too much of things to write about the "Turkey and their democratical Humanrights"
@Tomislavv2 Nice anti-islam page you've got there. So I guess anything you say about Islam is pure fact and not biased. -sarcasm off- And let's not talk about the spoiled blood on the hands of christians, zionists... Lets only focus on the muslims! -.-
And off topic: I mean not about this topic. Hürriyet and Kurtlar Vadisi are not in my list to take into consideration. Also I'm not watching Kurtlar vadisi. I love old movies and recently I'm wathing some new TV-shows, and some Japanese manga. Thats all ;)
@tahapamuk Thanks for you too for kindy postings!! It is a long topic, we could discuss endless, but without a result, the fact is, the turks and kurds need a solution without weapons(that was not the solution in the last 20 years), otherwise the bleeding will not stop, unfortunately. And sorry about kurtlar vadisi and Hürriyet, but the most people here choose unly those sources ;))
there was no Armenian genocide and there was no Kurd genocide where are are you reading this? Turkiye offered to open archieves about this matter but no other country wants to open this archieves because all their things are lie. You can easily see that this is something political. Turkiye is growing and becoming a great force in this area. America, Israel doesnt want this because they are using petrol in these lands. Politics and facts are differents things as black and white.
@tahapamuk this is what i mean by Turks being the biggest joke. when did things like this ever happen? and even if it did happen it happened under the supervision of Turks behind closed door in which they decided to make up what ever conclusion suited them. thats why no one heard about it. Turks did not commit genocide against Kurds, but they did against Armenians and assyrians. Kurds are killed and their basic rights are violated in Turkey today.
@tahapamuk The most things you write is logical respecting unnecessary die and war, but i can never accept, and will discuss about that, if kurds are turks or not.. Then you have to say that the turks in (Greek, bulgaria, cyprus a.so.) are not turks too.. and you cannot say that millions of people with another language and descent/origin is a turk, that is facism! Another point, "pkk" nobody would die for nothing, nobody dies for no target, try to survive 3 days in the woods, you`ll fail!
@tahapamuk also i will not discuss about the topic, if there was an Kurdish or Armenian genocide, because there was definitifly an genocide. We don`t need to talk about the killings of the facist front in Kahraman Maras a.s.o
You should know, that nobody choose the way to fight for nothing, and gives up his life, instead of having a girlfriend, going to holidays, and enjoying live. Like i said 3 days in the wood, and you `ll understand this, why should the pkk do this? Killing his own people??
the legitimacy of the Turkish government in Turkey is questionable. how can a government represent its people when 20 million people living under its laws are oppressed and denied their basic rights. how can they activate international laws when they violated it themselves when they invaded cyprus. how can they intervene in affairs of foreign countries when their motto is nationalism. Turkey is the biggest joke i have ever heard.
@TheScienceofnature What about the Indians, they're not put in r? If I use the same logic like you did, then I should say the US is even a bigger joke... It's easy to judge others isn't it? "We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their acts." -Harold Nicolson-
@DeKutnest the native americans practice their culture without any interference from the government or discouragement. they have their representatives and in the areas in which they are a majority they control the resources and management of the area. you cannot compare Turkey to USA because USA is a country which is leading the world in development and progress. mesopotamia and anatolia were the center of civilization before turks invaded it. now there is only bad government and corruption.
@TheScienceofnature "USA is a country which is leading the world in development and progress" haha you actually believe this? What about the US backing from the US of Saudi royals, the country with the biggest oilreserves, yet it's citizens are starving and living under islamic opression? I hope you see the contradiction here... They came to "liberate" Iraq, while we all know what the real reason is. Saddam was put in power by the US, but it wasn't playing "ball" anymore so he had to go.
@TheScienceofnature You see the US isn't that interested in human rights or progress, they're only intersted in domination. Where was the US when Sadam, put in power by the US, killed thousands of Kurds? So you see the US isn't intersted in the Kurds, only when it fits them. So stop using double-standards plz, judge yourselves before judging others... -.-
@DeKutnest USA created the UN charter of human rights. before their influence in world politics feudalistic ideology was the common philosophy of governments. without the US funds from charity and other influences in world politics the people of Africa would have long been vanished and even even communist countries like Vietnam and north Korea rely on US food supplies. protecting the Kurds in Turkey and middle east is another human rights mission which USA is undertaking.
@TheScienceofnature You're missing a big point here on Viëtnam!!! Who killed more then millions of people in Viëtnam in the first place... Twisting facts is becoming a hobby these days... Lol first killing and leave the country in ruins, now they're "helping". This is why the world thinks why Americans are dumb, they acually believe their own propaganda just like you, but the world knows better... Every superpower is doomed to fail, if you know history you'll know this... so will the USA fail...
@TheScienceofnature "protecting the Kurds in Turkey and middle east is another human rights mission which USA is undertaking." Anyone who belives this has an IQ under 50. It's not human rights mission you zionist, it's war!!! I can't blame you, the propagandamachine in the US left it's people living in a fantasyworld where their government is there to liberate the world. -.- USA 4 percent of the world's population, yet they consume 1/4 of the world's oilsupply, no wonder there is poverty... -.-
@DeKutnest the rise of saddam hussein is not due to US politics in the area, its due to Turkish and Iranian politics. dividing Kurdistan is the main contributer to instability in the area. the rise of saddam was due to the divided people of Iraq. the same is with the shah and the modern Islamic republic, its also the destiny of Turkey. the solution of keeping Kurds occupied and oppressed is not new, its been tried in every way and it does not work. lets try the obvious one, freedom for people.
@TheScienceofnature "the rise of saddam hussein is not due to US politics in the area, its due to Turkish and Iranian politics." Dude omg how can someone even write this kind on nonsens. You actually believe this? Read some facts instead of fairytales!!!
@DeKutnest Turkey encouraged the nationalism and anti Kurdish behavior of saddam. Turkey only opened is door on Kurdish refugees who were escaping the genocide because of international pressure. Iran was the first country to take Kurdish refugees but they also sent their own spies back along with the refugees when the massacre ended and established the Islamic movements in the areas of Halabja in an attempt to invade northern Iraq. they bombed Kurdish cities and beheaded Kurdish peshmerga
@TheScienceofnature "Hussein, while only in his early 20s, became a part of a U.S. plot to get rid of Abd al-Karim Qasim. Hussein was installed in an apartment in Baghdad on al-Rashid Street directly opposite Qassim's office in Iraq's Ministry of Defense, to observe Qassim's movements. The move was done with full knowledge of the CIA, and Hussein's CIA handler was an Iraqi dentist working for CIA and Egyptian intelligence" These are facts!! not fairytales like you're writing! Nice try tho -.-
@DeKutnest saddam was a close ally of Russia, if he was a US spy working in Iraq why didn't he buy US weapons, why did he spend all of Iraqi' resources on Diplomacy with the soviet union? you are taking everything and twisting it so that it means something else. north vietnam invaded south vietnam and massacred the oppositions against the socialist movements. this was a war which was backed by China. after the Us troops pulled out of Vietnam, China carried out an invasion of its own
@TheScienceofnature Dude I'm not gonna argue with you anymore, cuz obviously you're producing your own facts, while I do research and answer you back with facts... So if you want all answers do your own research... Google is your friend, look it up.. Go wikipedia and type Saddam US and read it yourself.. And those other points too! And if anyone's reading this do the research!!! The you'll know who's right who's wrong...
@DeKutnest i imagine you believe the CIA posts all their secret missions and operations online. i am only assessing situation and making my own conclusion. i have spoken to Palestinians and even they agreed on the fact that arab nations have turned their backs on Palestinians and its only countries like Iran and Turkey that are keeping the conflict going because they want a peace of the profit. the state of Israel is legally recognized as a country by Egypt, Jordan some other arab countries.
@DeKutnest why would i make anything up. i am not asking you to fight against your government, i am only asking you to recognize the mistakes they are making because its your lives they are gambling on. why do you believe Turkey has the right to throw Kurds out of their home or pressure them into accepting a foreign rule when clearly this is an act of aggression and Kurds have every right to resort to violence to get their basic human rights.
@DeKutnest you can't turn around and blame Israel for invading Palestine when Turks themselves have done similar thing in Anatolia. while Israelis have historical claims to Israel because it was the land of Jews before it was the land of arabs, Turks have no historical claims to anatolia. Turks are wiping out a culture which has no other home apart from the land they call Kurdistan while Israel is fighting a culture which has occupied much of africa and continues to expand under Islam.
@DeKutnest you are not gona argue because you have nothing to argue about. you have not got any good reason to back your opinion up. you accuse me of spreading propaganda when i am just a normal person who is interested in politics. i am not delusional like the people of arabia and Turkey who turn their eyes away from reality and pretend things don't exist or treat them differently and think they are fooling the word when the only person that is fooled are themselves.
@TheScienceofnature aka TheScienceofFICTION, I already said that Turkey has work to do regarding the Kurds, but you're telling me that Israël is right to emprison 1.5 million people in Gaza just because they voted for Hamas? People who actually believe your comments are the ones that are believing Fox news, F(ucked up)air and B(iased)alanced... -.- You should watch some refuseniks talk about the Palestinian issue...
@DeKutnest my friend came back from a holiday in Turkey yesterday, he is from Pakistan, he said he had met some Kurds who he got into a conversation with and out of no where they expressed their dissatisfaction with the Turkish people and how the government promoted and encouraged discrimination against Kurds. Kurds are only forced to act as if they like Turkish government, the case of smile and wave for the camera. this Kurds worked in a holiday resort, nothing to do with PKK.
@TheScienceofnature Dude for your blind support for Israël it's clear to everyone that you support zionazism, so why would I even consider you neutral and not biased? And that's the main reason I wont argue with you anymore... We all know how delusional zionists are... -.-
@DeKutnest when someone like me exposes the truths and makes solid arguments backed by solid facts, someone like you accuses them of spying and spreading propaganda for a foreign government. i am just a civilian, maybe well informed but thats not a crime. its a crime to be misinformed. the reason Israel has separated the Gaza strip from the rest of Israel is because terrorists were easily finding their way into Israeli cities, kidnapping jewish civilians and detonating bombs.
@DeKutnest i guess in Turkey anyone who is too intelligent is accused of being foreign spies and executed thats why they are not very bright when it comes to politics and governing. europe was similar in the dark ages, they used to kill intelligent woman accusing them of being witches. Turkey is the modern version of the dark ages in europe if that is the case. most crusaders ended up working in middle east as slaves, maybe there is something in the genes.
@DeKutnest you strike me as someone who listens and absorbs information unlike other Turks i have talked to. so i enjoyed exchanging some opinions with you. don't listen to me though, i might be a spy lol. just see the world as a human not a Turk. they say good is in the details. if you want to know the truth you will need to invest your own time into it rather than allow others to make up facts for you. my only aim was to show you that Kurds in Turkey are not monsters as your government depicts
@TheScienceofnature "my only aim was to show you that Kurds in Turkey are not monsters as your government depicts."
I've said two times that Turkey has the work on giving the Kurds more freedom, you don't have to tell me that. The thing that bothers me the most is that you're keep defending Israël and attacking Turkey. The US media is biased on Israël, try to look elswhere then the US media and you'll know what I mean...
@TheScienceofnature They're are a lot of Jews against zionism btw. Type "frefuseniks" and watch a few videos, then I hope you'll see how delusional you are on the Palestinian issue... This is my last comments for this, unlike you I have better things to do... btw how much is the Aipac paying you? -.-
@DeKutnest lol, if i was a spy i would be pretty damn busy to be answering your comments on youtube. i do not support zionism nor anything that ends in ism. the case of Israel against Palestinians is the case of the big guy portrayed as the bully when its the Palestinians that have refused to live together with the Jews. i don't know how much you know about the history of Israel but if you would bother to know, you would find that its always Israel that offer the hand of peace.
@DeKutnest i wasn't even talking about the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, i was talking about Kurds. they are very different issues. you cannot oppress Kurds because Israel has a country and USA backs them up. arabs are occupiers themselves. they occupied ever land outside saudi arabia. i won't say Israel is wrong or Palestine is wrong, i know Kurds are right to fight and Turks don't over Kurdistan.
There was never a Kurdistan dude, and there was a Palestine. Israël has no right to kill innocent civilians and occupy and oppress them! I'm saying that Israël is wrong, and Palestine is right! There are even Jews wich are against the zionistic illegal occupation. You don't know anything in the middle-east... keep supporting zionism and keep attacking others like in this case Turkey, it makes you very neutral in politics. -.- You have your view and I have mine and nothing will change that...
@DeKutnest you are wrong about your history. there were Kurdish states, Emirates before Kurdistan was divided. Kurds can trace their ancestors back to as far as the time of the ancient Sumerians, that is as far back as history goes. Palestine was a state who a Kurdish leader named Salahadine liberated from Crusaders. don't be fooled by the false history enemies of Kurds write about Kurds. Palestine is a settlement which Jews built, Romans destroyed and arabs invaded.
@TheScienceofnature This is a very interesting debate you guyz are having. Please allow me to drop in. There are a couple of things that I'd quickly state, kurds have the right to fight, i agree, like everyone else demanding a piece of land as theirs' because of historical connotations they do have that right. But shouldn't the U.S pressure their current puppet govt in Iraq to liberate the kurd regions of Iraq? Why has the U.S labelled kurds as terrorists?
@bashrox USA hasn't labelled Kurds as terrorists, they have labelled the PKk as terrorists. they are only an organizations, they represent some Kurds along with many other Kurdish organizations. but Turkey wants the PKK to be the most popular one because the PKK commits acts of violence. they are also a socialist part in nature. this is the perfect prey to bring the west into the conflict in the favor of Turks.
@bashrox Kurds have many different organizations representing different parts of the Kurdish society. this is what democracy is. we cannot oppress a population of Kurds because the west disagrees with them, we have nationalist parties, Liberal parties, Islamic parties. the Liberals and nationalists are the most popular parties in Kurdish society. but Turkey only hypes up about the PKK because they can use them as an excuse to attack southern Kurdistan and influence the western opinion
@bashrox as for northern Iraq, the only reason the Kurds are forces to remain inside the borders of Iraq is because of pressure from Turkey. Turkey said if Kurds ever declared Independence in northern Iraq, they would invade all of Iraq. they even brought some 50 thousand soldiers to the border, USA had to step in and prevent them from launching any operations into Iraq. they agreed not to invade but they continue to send spies and poisonous food to northern Iraq as an act of sabotage
@bashrox many Kurds have died from foods brought from Turkey by Turkish smugglers. entire farms have shut down because their animals died from poisoned food from Turkey. every act of terrorism and unrest committed inside the borders of Kurdistan (including Kirkuk) are committed by Turkish groups and Turkish spies. they are the single obstacle in middle east whose interests go against those of the people and prevent stability and progress in many parts of the world. including Greece.
@DeKutnest the Turkish policy of converting and consuming Kurdistan is not in the best interests of the Turkish people either. any politician that takes this route reveals only their lack of knowledge on the subject and should not be empowered to carry out such actions. politics only works when people get involved. the Turkish government uses the fear of Kurds against its own people to deny them their rights as well. like the Islamic republic of Iran uses the fear of america to control people.
@TheScienceofnature Brother you have just picked the kind of apples you like from the apple tree and haven't answered any of my questions. PKK is the only known kurdish party, when i said kurds i meant pkk. Even if i agree to you that there are many other representative parties of kurds than the argument is that what will kurds achieve if they don't have a single voice of their own. And surely if the U.S wills it can create an independent kurdish country, Ankara won't be able to do a thing.
@bashrox Ankara can do a lot of things and they do a lot of things as well. i have read and watched many news reports from Kurdistan in which they discourage any form of trading and imports from Turkey because they say those products are unsafe for use. farmers have come on TV showing their stocks wiped out from poisonous food which have been imported from Turkey. this is not something new, turkey did the same thing to Armenians when they became a country.
@bashrox the PKK is the smallest Kurdish party. their active members do not exceed 4000 and their supporters no more than 5000. but because Turkey puts the spotlight on them all the time, they are the only people by which europe and Turkish people recognizes Kurds. only in recent years the opinions of the west changed towards Kurds when they became more directly involved in the Kurdish issue. in southern Kurdistan alone there is over 6 different political parties representing Kurds.
@bashrox the KDTP (Kurdish democratic party of Turkey) can rally hundreds of thousands of Kurds in one call. the PKK could not do this in their wildest dreams. the KDTP is a peaceful Kurdish political party which is active in pursuing Kurdish interests in Turkey. how many people know about them? if Turkey was serious about peace and prosperity they wouldn't provoke violence by disrespecting Kurds, they would put the spotlight on peaceful movements of Kurds not on violence to raise hatred
@bashrox in Turkey there are 20 different political groups representing Kurds. ranging from nationalists, to Islamic and ideologists. in Iran there is 4 different political groups fighting for Kurdish freedom. in syria about 3 more. this is democracy not Turkey when they use all their efforts, knowledge and diplomatic power to oppress Kurds and Turks alike. the Turkish government is a pathetic excuse of a government. its hardly different from the outdated feudalistic, imperialist governments.
@TheScienceofnature The poisionous food thing is just absurd man but perhaps it is the sort of the proapaganda that Kurdish people of Iraq need against Turkey. Many kurds withing turkey are now very happy, this government is the first one to allow them the chance to celebrate "Nauroz" which the previous governments didn't allow, it has freed many prevoius political prisoners. The economy of Turkey is growing rapidly. How do you call the government pathetic? You, brother, have a bias.....
@bashrox giving them the freedom to be themselves is not a bonus, its their god given rights. taking it away is pure evil and uncivilized. the idea of a nation like Turkey poisoning people like Kurds is quite unbelievable i know. but that doesn't mean its not true. i have seen outdated food, food with dangerous chemicals, even building products are all of poor quality and cause deaths throughout Kurdistan. all of which costs the economy money which makes Kurds poor and kills people.
@bashrox Kurds have never done anything to Turks. its always Turkey who triggers the fire in some way and begins the slaughter of Kurdish civilians accusing them of terrorism. no one even bothers to ask any question. Kurds have the right to live in their own lands, govern themselves and chose their own destiny. they are not born slaves to serve the interests of Turks or arabs. treating them in this manner will give them the right to be violent. Turks would do worse in that position.
@TheScienceofnature Dude your arguments are turning profoundly stupid, the turkish government poisoning that KURDS...wow! What an argument, the govt of turkey does not produce food or building material, communist govts do that.. then one begs to ask the question, why buy from turks...buy from someone else... and i know freedom is a virtue but to have that virtue was a rareity for the Kurds... Erdogan has given them back what was theirs..no one else had those balls... so please stop your crap
@bashrox smugglers bring those foods into Kurdistan. Turkey cannot produce food and building materials for export? then why are there so many Turkish companies in northern Iraq? Ibrahim tatlse is the face of Turkish economical occupation of northern Iraq. Kurds cannot be free in Turkey unless the constitution is changed in which Kurds are given rights by law to be themselves, even if its inside the borders of Turkey, they must be Kurds in Kurdistan not Kurds in Turkey.
@bashrox the model that could work in Turkey is the model of the UK government. Scots, English and welsh all live inside the borders of Great Britain however they each have their own parliament and elect their own parties to govern their region with their own budget to spend on what they want. this creates stability and peace as well as paving the way for development. modern Turkish constitution creates unrest, hatred because Turks get more than everyone and is disrespectful to other cultures
@TheScienceofnature You babling on without any coherence. THE TURKISH GOVT DOES NOT MAKE ANY FOOD AND BUILDING MATERIAL FOR EXPORT, it is private industries that do that. If there are turkish companies in northern iraq then it is not turky's fault, it is the American occupiers' fault to let them do that but they won't say a word because they themselves are occupying a land. Of course you would pin anything on them because you are biased. Why don't you ask for the same UK model in Iraq and Iran?
@bashrox the same model is the only model that works in any multi cultural or multi national country. both Iraq and Iran have the same issue with their population as they don't represent anyone but themselves. Iran has long been fighting guerilla wars with Kurds and the Baluchi and it will continue to do so until they are given formal rights. besides, Turkey sees itself as a country which is worthy to stand amongst the developed nations of the EU. these developments are simple to fail
@TheScienceofnature The fact of the matter is that there is no geographical division between the kurdish parts of turkey. They are only around 20% the total population of Turkey. It is around the same % of population of South Asians in the UK, should UK provide them with a separte governmental system? You arguments are dumb and loaded with hatred towards Turkey.
@bashrox the Kurds did not migrate to Turkey, they are native to the ancient land of Anatolia. the south asian population of UK agreed to migrate to the UK by accepting the British law, British constitution, culture and government. they are either asylum seekers or are there under work or education permit. Kurds in Turkey were there when the constitution was written, they were simply disregarded. Kurds are not refugees for gods sake. they are occupied by Turks.
@TheScienceofnature Well if you go on about history and how native people were occupied then there will be no united states, no australia, no new zealand and i can go on... you argument does not hold water
@bashrox i am not talking about america or what ever land. if turks had created a nation a quarter as successful as the united states and Australia i doubt they would be so keen in wiping Kurds out. they would be living in a multi cultural society like USA and Australia. also comparing Ordugan to the previous rulers of Turkey is not gona get us anywhere. as we have agreed that what has been done to Kurds in the past was wrong. to make it right we cannot use it as a scale of measurement.
@TheScienceofnature Well this video isn't about kurds but we are talking about them, so i can talk about whoever i choose and compare erdogan to turks rulers of previous age as that is relevant even if we agree the past was bad. And if you think australia and american are succesful on racial ground than look no further than katrina where bush let blacks die and look no further than jhon howard who refused to apologize only a few years ago.
@bashrox there is no formal census of the Kurdish population. everyone who carries out any census seems to get a different result. my best guess is somewhere between 25 to 30 million as there are many Kurds in Turkish populated areas that are counted as Turks. the reason there is no formal division between the Kurdish and Turkish parts is because the unity is maintained by military means. i am not saying divide up Turkey, i am saying a large portion of the country that is neglected is unjust
@bashrox without security and recognition of the Kurdish ethnicity by Turkey as distinctive population with full human rights in the constitution there is no guarantee that everything Ordugan does for Kurds won't be undone by the next government. by throwing away the nationalist, intolerant image of Turkey and replacing it with a multi cultural and diverse nation which it is in nature, only then Turkey is a legal country whose legitimacy cannot be denied.
@bashrox the Turkish government can invade and attack Kurds for eternity, it will only make things worse. they can destroy the PKK a million times and another organization will replace them. because all this money has been spent and lives lost, they haven't really done anything about the problem. the problem is that Turkey needs to recognize Kurds and empower them to develop themselves. governments are there for the people not their own interests. thats why people die for their country.
@bashrox Kurds live in poverty in Turkey. i have been there, i really feel sorry for them. the Turkish government has driven them back a thousand years. arming clans and building watch towers throughout the Kurdish cities. it feels like a prison. i was there for 2 days and i wanted to fight. the image of armed Turkish soldiers itself is intimidating to people never mind what they do to Kurds behind closed doors. i have seen Kurds beaten to death by police officers only a year or two ago.
@TheScienceofnature So you deny Turkey's legitimacy, you are a buffon if you do that. Does Israel have that kind of legislation to ensure the proportionate representation of the Arabs within it's boundries? does it have the laws the ensure that West bank and east Jerusulam do not become occupied territories? In fact isreal builds upon them occupies them and has no plan hand them back, now that is a country that can't be called legitimate. Tukey on the other hand considers Kurds as turks.
@TheScienceofnature Much like the way the native indians and blacks are considered americans in america. Why should they be treated any differently than any other turkish person in the eyes of the law. Turks have never invaded iraq, they attack only when provoked. Turkey has democracy and it represents the people on that proportion, human rights are same for every turkish national. Kurds live in poverty because they choose no to integrate themselves.
@bashrox Turkey was not very far from invading Iraq, they sent some 50 thousand troops to occupy Iraq but USA prevented them from doing so. Turkey Occupied Cyprus, they occupied anatolia to begin with. never mind all the troubles they caused in other parts of the world by laying claim to occupied territories they had failed to defend.
@TheScienceofnature Turkey can and will invade iraq if americans can't keep the kurds from shooting and killing turks on the other side of the border, if america can stop them from invading surely it can provide kurds with a country an autonomy. Dont lecture me about turkish empire building of past coz i know all about it, yet it is only decent country on the face of earth in today's day and age... period!
@bashrox Kurdistan is autonomous, but Turkey is the only country that has problem with this. the Kurds that fight Turks are not from Iraqi Kurdistan, they are from the Turkish Kurdistan. they are in the Kandil mountains, Turkey has tried to get to them for as long as they have existed and have failed to get to the PKk. why do they come to Iraqi Kurdistan to get back at the PKK. the Turkish people are so misinformed and misled that they can't tell the difference between black and white
@bashrox the united states elected a black president, would Turkey ever elect a Kurdish president? to come on Turkish national TV and confirm his place of birth and ethnicity? Australian politicians publicly went on TV and confirmed all the crimes they committed against the natives and apologized for it. they reassured those native cultures to be protected by government law. would Turkey ever think about something like that for Kurds?
@bashrox non of the terrorist attacks committed against Turkish civilians was committed by Kurds, but pro Turkish nationalists. old generals who still receive funds from the government and they use it to recruit Turks and make them carry out acts of terror against civilians to create hatred towards Kurds. one of these groups were exposed and the Turkish government quickly made them disappear and dumbed the population down with distractions.
@bashrox during the long history of Kurdish rebellion and struggle for freedom, not in any circumstances have Kurds carried out any acts of terrorism or targeted civilians. only when there was a foreigner (either Turk or arab) behind it. Turks did the same in cyprus when they sent Turks to kill the Turkish civilians in the island to use it as an excuse to invade it. this was all over the news back in the days.
@TheScienceofnature Your propaganda talk is full of half truths and outright myths that have been conjured up by those who hate to see erdogan talk against the Israelis and for the Palestinians, you want people to stay busy in their own problems. The fact of the matter is that what Erdogan has done for the Kurds even the U.S hasn't been able to do that in Iraq. If U.S has elected a black president it just for people like you to quote... we all know AIPAC runs the U.S.
@bashrox haha, you just jumped ahead of me and accused me of doing what you are doing, twisting the truths. what the hell has Ordugan done for Kurds than you are so upset about? he allowed them to be Kurds? that my friend was under intense Political pressure. Turkeys image has already been ruined, these are attempts to regain trust.
@bashrox the united states have never under any circumstances harmed a Kurdish grass. on top of that he has given the Iraqi Kurds full sovereignty and independence to govern themselves under their protection. that my friend is history. no nation has ever treated Kurds with such respect. of course these actions only reveal the wisdom and honor of the nation that is USA, they would have trust and believe in almost any human, no matter how oppressed or hopeless their situation is.
@TheScienceofnature Australia only apologized but tell me has the situation of the aboriginals improved? It hasn't. Why should turkey apologize to kurds when they have never been mstreated out of intent. The case is simple, if kurds want to join in the turkish life, there can't be a better time than erdogan's government. About the kurds in Iraq, they will be shot down everytime they try and breach Turkey's defences.
@bashrox once again you are not understanding the problem. Kurds do not want to be Turks. they do not want to abandon their 10 thousand year old heritage for the less than 100 year old Turkey. they will fight non stop and believe me they are not afraid of Turks or anyone. if they were they wouldn't have survived under all the oppression and mistreatment they have received under Turks. and you just proved the mindset that is Turks, intolerant and uneducated thoughts that benefits no one.
@bashrox you telling me its ok to invade Turkey, prevent them from speaking their language and use the name Turk to describe themselves? and if they breach these laws they shall be imprisoned and killed. these are the laws which Turkey has placed on Kurds. its provocative and intended for one purpose, to give Turkey the right to kill Kurds. Kurds have played their cards rights thats why they still exist. and you are telling me Turkey has never harmed Kurds? why are you fooling yourself mate
@TheScienceofnature It is you who is trying to fool everyone perhaps to just malign Turkey, you have no favors to give to the Kurdish people. You just want to blow your flute so that people may think lower of Turkey. Now here are the facts, Kurdish language is the second official language of the country, Kurds can call themselves kurds, they are free to participate in the democratic life of the Turkey. All this was done by erdogan. Now brother, would you kindly...SOD OFF!
@bashrox to tell you the truth i am not exactly sure if all these things you have said are true. it probably is because i heard that some senior military officials were arrested because they tried to topple the government in a military coup. for this to happen Ordugan must have really pissed them off. the military class of Turkey are the biggest enemy of Kurdish rights. however this cannot overwrite the fact that Turkey seeks to cease northern Iraq. it could be a political stunt.
@bashrox the reason i do not trust in all these moves is because the Turkish constitution is quite the opposite of that. it discriminates against any non Turkish ethnicities. so you have to ask yourself the question, is Ordugan more powerful than the Turkish constitution? how long can Kurds have freedom for and is Ordugan doing this because of western pressure or is he doing it because he believes this is the solution.
@bashrox finally how can i favor Turkey when they are such an aggressive, unpopular nation in the area. we can all shut our eyes and pretend that Turkey is lawful, fair and wise nation or we can judge the facts and see for ourselves that the foundation on which Turkey is built is quite outdated and is bound to create problems in Turkey. the west cannot support turkey in discrimination and aggression. and Kurds cannot be blamed for fighting back against these actions.
@TheScienceofnature Who want you to favor turkey... you just keep your nose out of turkey's business. You don't trust erdogan...fine, you don't trust turkey...fine... we don't trust you either. Kurds are happy, are in the parliament, have representation.. these are the facts that go beyond you assertions and assumptions. So please stop spreading hatred that has no value
@bashrox Iraq is not Turkey's business. Turkey has always been a major obstacle to peace in Iraq. even saddam was always trying to make peace with Kurds but Turkey would always threaten them with sanctions and blocking the fresh water supplies going into Iraq if Iraq made peace with Kurds. but now saddam is gone, Iraq once again belongs to the world and humanity not Turks and arabs. Kurds have every right to be independent and have government in Iraq, Turkey will just have to change policies
@bashrox if Kurds cause problems to Turkey its only because Turkey acts like a childish gangster towards them. if Kurds are violent its only because Turks taught them to be that way. Turkey is the government not Kurds. everything wrong done inside Turkey the Turkish government will be blamed not the civilians. as for Iraqi Kurds, if Turkey doesn't stop creating problems there rest assured the conflict in Iraq will reach Turkey as well soon enough.
@TheScienceofnature Turkey wants none of Iraq... It won't have any advantage by destabalizing iraq. In fact it is the U.S that is poking her nose all over the world, they want Pakistan now to attack the taliban while they themselves talk of peace with them in Afghanistan. The kurds in Iraq are U.S's headache, and if they don't put an end to the problems they create for turkey then turkey knows how to tackle them. And look at you talk... Iraq belongs to humanity and the world...?
@bashrox Turkey thinks that if the Kurds of Iraq get an independent nation, the Kurds of Turkey will also rise up. of course this is true, but then again they have the right to be free, occupying their territory in the first place was a mistake not allowing them to be free. all those Iraqis were killed not by US troops but by Turkish, Iranian and arabic backed terrorist organizations. what is Iraq, Iraq is not even a real country. the British and Turkey forced them to live together.
@bashrox when in the history of humanity a country was built for the interests of its neighboring countries? countries are built around a group of people, they are built around one culture, one civilization. not forcing three different cultures together and keeping them together by making threats to them and at the point of the sword. that is Iraq, if Turkey didn't want Iraq to be united Iraq would have long been three distinctive nations. also the British built Iraq for Kurds not arabs.
@bashrox Turkey is the source of all the problems in Iraq. they wont allow the country to be divided and they won't allow Kurds do be an active member in the country. Kirkuk is a Kurdish city and they wont allow Kurds who were thrown out to return to their own city. they won't allow a Kurdish city to be Kurdish, and you blame PKK for killing Turkish soldiers? if they didn't fight with Turks then i would justify their death. because the tyranny of Turkey is worthy of punishment. they are patriots
@TheScienceofnature It is u.s that occupies iraq and no one in his right mind would deny it except of course for propagandists like you. And turkey has to kurdish problem from the inside, it is the pKK terrorists from across broder fostered by U.S these days to undermine erdogan's govt's stance against israel. It is really very simple but for your blindness of ignorance.
@bashrox i am ignorant? you talk about the people of Iraq, who are the people of Iraq? Kurds are the people of Iraq. and Turkey doesn't want Kurds getting anything. i am sorry but Turkey has no right and is in no position to decide the destiny of Kurds. they are a distinctive culture of people and without their recognition Turkey will always find itself having to fight Kurdish rebels. Turkey has created the problem not USA. why won't they recognize Kurdish freedom? thats the problem.
@TheScienceofnature SHUT THE FUCK UP! You are a complete idiot, arguing with you is like talking to the wall. You have the IQ of a planckton. There is no single country on this planet that has one culture.. america has white, hespanic, black, jewish and amish culutures, china has mainland, cantonese, tibet even turkish culture, indian has so many different cultures that it has 22 secessionist movments in its midst, why don't you talk about them? You are full of bias and full of shit!
@bashrox the while europeans, mainly citizens of British origins founded the united states, China was built by the mandarine ethnicity, Indian people have built India, all of the people in India belong to the indian civilization apart from Pakistanis who are Mongolian by origin. the people in these nations are all on the same wavelength, they agree and cooperate. in Iraq the slightest disagreement leads to total war and with the cultural makeup of the country disagreements are guaranteed.
@bashrox if you are as clever as you think you are then prove me wrong, don't dismiss me for an idiot. everyone can swear, those are the characteristics of uncivilized, savage people. your bad language is a sign of weakness and lack of logical response. in all your arguments you have completely overlooked everything that is important, the people. you seem to think that people are some kind of tools and they must do what ever they are asked to do.
@TheScienceofnature You deserve to be ridiculed and sweared on because as i said you have an IQ of a planckton. You have just proved me right by ignoring what FACTS i've quoted, all the nations you labelled as one are anything but one. The british who FOUND the U.S had to capture and kill the natives in order to calim that they FOUNDED that tact of land and for God's sake Pakistanis are not Mangols
@TheScienceofnature ... tell you what i'll take everything back and call you a genious and curse the Turks if you prove yoruself right by quoting one authentic source that says indians are all of indian ethnicity and that pakistanis are mongols or that british founded U.S or that whole of china agrees on cooperate. if you can't do that then you have to write here that you kiss your own butt whole and that therez a kurd living up there
@bashrox USA is a British originated society in many ways, for starters the colonies of New York, Virginia...etc most of the original states were British colonies. secondly, if you take a look at the united states declaration of independence you will find that its strikingly similar if not directly from the writings of the famous English philosopher John Locke. finally the entire nation of USA communicates with the language of the British people if slightly tampered with.
@TheScienceofnature You are a buffon aren't you, what of the people who originally inhibited these lands? the Red Indians the racist scum bags called them then. They are the natives of the land and the british were the first to invade their lands after which came wave after wave of settlers from europe including jews, also bringing black slaves with them to cultivate their cotton fields. This is the truth that you try to conceal.
@bashrox i would much rather talk to my wall at home than you. you have no knowledge of any history, culture or have the slightest awareness of the world around you. it doesn't matter how many times i prove you wrong you just give me a headache by bringing up topics completely unrelated. the last government to rule Pakistan was the Mughal empire, an Islamic empire of Mongol origins. the first government to rule Pakistan after the British was an Islamic government
@bashrox Finally, the native americans had no country, they were hunter gatherers who by no laws of civilization owned the lands they dueled in, to own a land you must put your labour into it. for starters they were nomads, secondly no ancient artifacts of native americans exist in the united states, only in south america. that indicates that the native americans of northern america could have also been no more than migrants from the southern civilizations.
@TheScienceofnature You have proved to me that you indeed know nothing but posess a vandetta against the Turks.. But you will never succeed because truth stands tall and falsehood like yours is bound to be destroyed when met with truth!
@bashrox i don't need to make anything up to prove that Turks lack the skills to govern. those facts are self evident. you are the one who is in denial. there has been a war between Kurds and turks non stop for a hundred years and you are saying Kurds have no problem in Turkey. how dare you even give yourself the right to argue amongst reasonable people. you said if i could prove my point you would agree that you are an idiot, i did and you dismissed it.
@TheScienceofnature the native americans first attacked the white settlers. the european settlers tried to establish trade and relations with the native americans but they attacked and killed them, you cannot start a war and expect the other side to stop when you are losing. this is the sign of their savagery, they had not diplomacy, no government and no law by which they could establish themselves the owners of north america. only the fact that they were there. thats the same as the buffaloes.
@bashrox let me give you a piece of advice, you as a Turks should never talk about the truth. because the truth is you are all gypsies who migrated to anatolia and invaded it, you committed the genocide of Armenians, you invaded Cyprus against all international laws, you continue to oppress and murder Kurds in their home and never stop converting and destroying the Kurdish culture. and you won't stop there, you will continue to spread your backwards ideas with your savage characteristics.
@TheScienceofnature It was better had you not replied at all for the only thing that you've done is that you've pulled off the last pieces of cloth guarding your privates, now you are naked before me and honestly you look ugly. Your point are: 1. The native americans had no right and were savage so the british n europeans had the right to exterminate them and their culture. 2. You say that since Mughal empire was mongol and that is why all pakistanis are mongols... wow!
@bashrox the native americans had no civilization in northern america, they didn't even have governments or philosophies. they were by no right the owners of northern america. the white europeans were not owners either, but they put their labour into the land and made it into the most successful nation in the world in which even the native americans are better for it. the history of USA is proud of its native american heritage, it does not deny it nor oppress the remaining populations.
@TheScienceofnature Fact remains that you didn't quote one author or authentic source to defend your claims... i don't have to rebuke you anymore... if you don't know shit about the world's most important countries today how the hell can talk about a flimsy, madeup issue which is the kurds pitted against turks... I've only talked of facts... you've talked about fantasies...no wonder a kurd lives up your butt hole...fukin idiot!
@bashrox no you have only talked about simple misrepresented facts, i have talked about the more complicated truths. the ones most politicians are afraid to talk about or even mention because it will cause havoc and will challenge the foundation of many modern countries. i personally believe anything can survive if you cover up for it and allow it to do what ever it pleases them, e.g. Turks writing the history of Kurds. only if they survive after the challenges they have the right to exist.
@bashrox Turkey is a nation built on false sense of confidence and an even more false sense of security. it does not have what we call legal government. its a militarized nation who imposes laws for its own benefit rather than its people, it represents a minority of immigrants who by moral and legal rights do not have the right to call Anatolia Turkey.
@bashrox the Turks used the culture of arabs, Kurds and Greeks on the lands of Kurds, Armenians and Greeks, on the foundation of the middle eastern and european societies. what is Turk if not merely an issue of race and ethnicity? everything your people are proud of belongs to another civilization, those your people vanquished, why not live with them and allow growth than to destroy them because they are not Turks by genes. what is the difference between this state and Nazism?
@bashrox they too rose to power for no particular reason but the vague issue of race and nationality. Jews where born, bred and contributed to the german society and were slaughtered for being Jewish. Turkey does the same to Kurds, why can they not exist by being different? why must they become Turks for them to have rights? what is it that Turks have and Kurds don't? the fact that Turks can kill and fail to respect anything outside their own? that is not civilized. that is savage.
@TheScienceofnature secessionist movements going on at the moment from among it's 27 provinces... these are facts that no one denies rather than a theory from some philosopher. Yes you claim that each of these countries has their entire population at the same wavelength. You are a clown... The real issue here is the continued occupation and exploitation of Palestininas but you want people to watch the video and then go.. oh turks exploit kurds so Israel may exploit Palestinians... Fuckin Moron!
@bashrox according to your theory Turkey is not Turkish either. it has a lot of Kurdish people living in it. but the language is Turkish, the people that rule the government are Turkish, what does that make it? if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck what they found was a duck. i can tell your frustration from your use of offensive words. i know i have a point i use reason, you know you are ignorant you resort to uncivilized manners.
@bashrox i will reply to you no more. i have made my point and i wouldn't want to educate an enemy of freedom and humanity any further. clearly the difference between me and you is you seek a solution for the benefit of Turks and i seek a solution for the benefit of humanity. they are two very different things. i know i am right because history tells us that humanity lasts longer than nationality. many nations have perished before, far more civilized and advanced than Turks.
@bashrox historians write what benefits their employers. i have given you the source of a primary source. John Locke, have a look at his writings and if you didn't find the exact words written in the declaration of independence of the united states, come and tell me thats not true. i am not saying anyone should exploit anyone. arabs themselves occupied Palestine, why do they have more right over it than Jews? because they did it first? Jews created that land, it was a desert before them.
@bashrox Turkey and Israel were best friends before, why all the sudden they are arch enemies? its obvious, Israel needs Kurds and turkey hates Kurds.
@TheScienceofnature John Locke is not a historian he is a philosopher and he is not a competent authority in this matter. What you are now jumping on about is not what we were talking facts about. American is not british in nature neither directly nor indirectly, it is a mixture of different populations and culture and not everyone is on the same wavelength. You don't know anything about the discrepencies in Mainland China, Hongkong, Sinkiang n Tibet, You don't know that in India there are 22..
@TheScienceofnature John Locke is not a neutral reporter of history, i didn't say any author i said an authentic source, which ofcourse you will not able to quote because it is not the truth that you wish to prove. How can I be an enemy of humanity, is turkey not part of humnity or is it because you think that my government is not working alright so you can invade my land because according to you if a govt doesn't exist or work properly a country can be invaded!
@TheScienceofnature Uncivilized would be to invade your country or try to call you illegitimate because your country has a problem of racial nature and I have a vendetta against your country that can be served by this problem you have. I'm just calling you names that best describe you... I haven't talked about your family or anything i've called you buffon, a fuker, an idiot, having an intellect of a planckton...all of these suit you!
@TheScienceofnature Historians may write what their bosses tell them too but still you won't find one boss in the world who would've paid to write people that U.S is all british in nature, or that india, china have a homogeneous population or that Pakistanis are children of mongols. Hence you are an ass.
@bashrox it doesn't take a genius to figure out the influence of the British culture on USA. somethings are not written not because they don't exist but for the fear of provoking people or just because they are so obvious they don't make an interesting story for people to read. the separation of the united states from Britain was not by any means because of cultural differences, but because of ideological difference. it was Capitalism vs Liberalism.
@TheScienceofnature Did a jewish pussy squirt out the land of palestine? It is still a desert in most places so don't give me shit about it being made by the jews. Let us assume that jews did make the land...so what? they left it thousands of years ago... how does it make it fair to drive some from his home because someone whose fore-fore-fathers used to live their have claimed it as theirs. Where in the history of the world has this happend? You talk of humnaity... just look what you defend...
@TheScienceofnature Turks and Israelis are no longer friends because Israel continues to occupy palestinian lands and has killed turkish citizens.. Kurds have nothing to do with it..except of course that israel earlier used to provide turks with intelligence about Kurds, it no longer does that and maybe supports PKK now
@TheScienceofnature I don't care if you reply or not... I can see turkey grow, israel has lost any legitimacy in most people's eyes. palestinians will, God-Willing, soon get their land, Kurds are our brothers... we will always stand by their side and will make it easier for them to share with us the progress of Turkey. PKK will soon die off. We will rise again to the heights that your own analysts are scared of... God-Willing! Long Live Erdogan, Long Live Turkey...Down with the propagandists!
@bashrox my go you are the biggest ignorant, highly misinformed and incredibly stupid individual. do you seriously believe Kurds like living with Turks? do you seriously believe Turkey has any plan of any form to give Kurds a single chance within anatolia if kurds don't resort to violence? Turkey will never stop the Turkification of Anatolia. this is a historical fact. lets just look at the past one hundred years history of Turkey.
@bashrox Armenian massacres in 1915, anti-Jewish pogroms in 1934, anti-Greek and Armenian pogroms in 1955, the Alevi massacres of 1978, the Sivas massacre of 1993, they all were carefully planned and organized by the deep state elements in Turkey. this country has no intentions to tolerate anything or anyone outside the Turkish speaking population. i have no interest in Turkey's business. i just don't want people being misled about Kurds. they are no terrorists, Turkey is.
@bashroxA schizophrenic Western mentality appears when dealing with Turkey’s past and present. They do not want to see that those who carried out all these massacres and the so-called modernizing forces of Turkey were exactly the same people. They do not want to see the continuation between the Turkification of Anatolia and the modernization of Turkey.
@bashrox people have the right to fight when threatened. Kurds are defending what is sacred to them, they are being thrown out of their own homes and their rights are violated inside the lands they have lived in for thousands of years. turkey is the aggressor here. USA has invaded Iraq, they have no plans what so ever to convert Iraqis into americans. every territory that was occupied by USA has prospered. look at south Korea and north Korea, look at Japan. USA has resect.
@bashrox Iraq was never a country, this is an imaginary border created between the same people called the Kurds. there is no cultural or historical ties between Kurds and arabs apart from the fact that arabs invaded Kurdistan. the same goes for Turkey. these are no governments, they are human eating machines. Kurds are a population of over 40 million people. what gives any nation the right to deny them their rights? you Turks are all softheaded morons.
@TheScienceofnature hahah you said you wouldn't reply... but you did... a man who reverses on his word is not a man at all... you've proved me right all the time by saying all the stupid things, you claim you want rights for kurds but your are quick to quote incidents in which erdogan had nothing to do. Of course you are a bigoted piece of shit who twists facts to his liking but u fool no one...get the fuck out of here!
@bashrox how can i not replay to such ignorance, such ridiculous, misleading and inaccurate information. who is Ordugan? he is just one man who is drawing a cloud over peoples minds to allow the real oppressive, intolerant and violent Turkish constitution and those who impose it do their job without opposition from the people who pay the price in blood. Kurds are not in your debt for allowing them to speak their language in their home land. thats their basic god given rights.
@bashrox the internet is the greatest gift for freedom of speech and i sure as hell am not going to get off here. the internet gives us the power to educate ourselves rather than be educated by our politicians. thats why we no longer need them, we need politicians to serve us rather than us serving them. and we will make examples of dickheads like you who spreads narrow minded views like that. Ordugan is the puppet of the Turkish state, thats what we will change, the Turkish state not Ordugan.
@TheScienceofnature Your profound ignorence is punctuated by every statement that you make, Erdogan is not the guardian of the current constitution. In fact he is the only one who has had the courage to amend it. Kurds are part of the Turkish fabric of life, Erdogan is setting things right and for that he doesn't want the Kurds to ben in debt to him or turks in general. He wants them to co-exist with love. Indeed internet is freedom but the cost of it that we have to brush away pinhead like you.
@bashrox you talk on the basis of Turkey being all the things it isn't. you represent Turkey as a Liberalist, tolerant and multicultural society in which every human is equal and has rights. Turkey is the opposite of all that and more. why do people leave the country and migrate to the rest of the world? its not because Turkey is a poor land, Anatolia is one of the most fertile lands on earth. its because the government, the society is built on false hope and false assumption.
@TheScienceofnature Turkey is indeed tolerant, it is represented by the number of jews who live within turkey and support turkey's stance against israel's occupation of palestinian lands which, must I remind you, is the topic of this video in the first place. In fact most of the nations that you claim as civilizedrecognize this. This is shown in effect by the support turkey recieves from Britain, U.S etc. People move from every country, even the U.S, China, India etc... it shows nothing!
@TheScienceofnature Neither you... nor thousands of your kind can help stop Turkey from being what it is and what it will grow to become. You can only come on the internet and try to malign Turkey's greatness and Erdogan's courage against Israel..but nothing will change Turkey from it's Destiny to Greatness!
@bashrox without your imagination the Turkey you speak of doesn't exist. its in many ways a feudalist or even pre feudalist society. i try not to get into a swearing competition with you. people make personal remarks when they lose the battle of reason. you cannot disprove my argument thats why you are challenging the legitimacy of the source. if you could prove me wrong you would.
@TheScienceofnature Whatever Turkey might be, it has the only high growth rate in the whole of Europe while other european countries were hit with recession. Turkey has had fair and free elections and erdogan has won twice, showing the support he recieves from the people of Turkey. You claim you don't want to get into a swearing competition yet you did call me names. If you arguments are right then surely you can back them up with facts and sources. if you can't then u are making things up.
@TheScienceofnature I have proved you wrong more than once (for example by quoting that Pakistanis are not mongols and that India is mixture of races and that U.S was not founded by the british) but you just ignore these because if you accept that then there is no slur left to hurl at Turkey. As I've said before, you are worse than a loser, you are a loser who wouldn't accept losing!
@bashrox lol, you are hilarious man. i wouldn't talk if i didn't have a good reason to base it on. i have been very busy this past few weeks, too much work. but yeah sure, i will give you USA as an example. i won't explain every single example i have given, that will take ages and you won't even be able to look those informations up yourself. e.g. the history of Pakistan is hard to look up since little records exist of their mongol origins. they are descended of the Moghal empire.
@TheScienceofnature Oh shut the fuck up... you konw what is worse than a loser? it is you! Because you won't admit you are at fault. You say won't expalin because i won't be able to look up.. well i don't need to look up because I know these things. Pakistanis are a mixture of different races like india, china and most of all U.S.A and all of these countries have problems within whereas in india, china, paksitan there are proper secessionist movements. You are nothin more than "in denial"
this man is only dog !!! selling his country for money !!
ardaxoy 5 months ago
this man will stay in history as one of the greatest statesmen of our times a man of honesty n princible to make his country proud to make us all proud sir with great respect i admire u deeply and am greek
polygamous1 8 months ago
bu basbakan beceremiyor. eger bizim askeri gemimize düsman saldirip sehit verdiysek neden bunun üstüne bir savas olusmadi! onlar yerlerinde oturup gülüp eglenmislerdi bizim analarimis yillar boyunca ogullarina aglarken. yaziklar olsun tayyip 9 milyon yahudilerden ve amerikalilardan korkuyorsun!
arif2739 10 months ago
@arif2739 SEN GERCEKTEN GARIPSIN AMA GERCEKTEN! HEP SAVAS SAVAS? SAVASLA NEREYE GELINMIS BU ZAMANA KADAR EY GARIP COCUK? BOYCOT, DIPLOMATIK BAGI KOPARMAK VE GELECEKTE ELINI ISRAELDEN CEKMEK COK DAHA KARLIDIR BIZIM ICIN, GIT BIRAZ KITAB OKU SAVASLAR NE YAPMIS BU ZAMANA KADAR...
pudinggala 9 months ago
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ISLAM-Fasizminin Liderleri Tayyip ve Abdullah son yapilan Gazeteci tutuklamalarinda bizzat kendileri sorumludur. Ve bu Sorumlu Islam Diktatörleri bunun cezasini Sikilerek ödeyecekler
john74464 11 months ago
Mr. Erdogan is a brave and wise man. I deeply respect him and he should be respected by all those who fear the terrorist, Zionist, Nazi State of Israel, who feels that she can commit every type of crime under the sun, and not be accountable because she is protected by of America. God bless Mr. Erdogan, his is a hero.
Jevezy 1 year ago
and not just this islami turks have killed 1,6 milion Armenians you comited genocide against Assyrians as well.Turkey is still terrorising and ocupying Kurdistan and suronding Kurds and Turkey is ocupying Cyprus ilegaly.Turkey have comited genocides against south slavs and even the whole of your nation was created in kidnaping children to janisseries and on genocide against Byzantine.There has hardly ewer been a nation with more inocent blood on their hands than Turkey
Tomislavv2 1 year ago
@Tomislavv2 These are right facts.. I just could`nt remember , because there is too much of things to write about the "Turkey and their democratical Humanrights"
Everybody knows that, just the Turks not :))
schokolataman 1 year ago
@Tomislavv2 Nice anti-islam page you've got there. So I guess anything you say about Islam is pure fact and not biased. -sarcasm off- And let's not talk about the spoiled blood on the hands of christians, zionists... Lets only focus on the muslims! -.-
DeKutnest 1 year ago
And off topic: I mean not about this topic. Hürriyet and Kurtlar Vadisi are not in my list to take into consideration. Also I'm not watching Kurtlar vadisi. I love old movies and recently I'm wathing some new TV-shows, and some Japanese manga. Thats all ;)
tahapamuk 1 year ago
@tahapamuk Thanks for you too for kindy postings!! It is a long topic, we could discuss endless, but without a result, the fact is, the turks and kurds need a solution without weapons(that was not the solution in the last 20 years), otherwise the bleeding will not stop, unfortunately. And sorry about kurtlar vadisi and Hürriyet, but the most people here choose unly those sources ;))
Have nice day man!
schokolataman 1 year ago
there was no Armenian genocide and there was no Kurd genocide where are are you reading this? Turkiye offered to open archieves about this matter but no other country wants to open this archieves because all their things are lie. You can easily see that this is something political. Turkiye is growing and becoming a great force in this area. America, Israel doesnt want this because they are using petrol in these lands. Politics and facts are differents things as black and white.
tahapamuk 1 year ago
@tahapamuk this is what i mean by Turks being the biggest joke. when did things like this ever happen? and even if it did happen it happened under the supervision of Turks behind closed door in which they decided to make up what ever conclusion suited them. thats why no one heard about it. Turks did not commit genocide against Kurds, but they did against Armenians and assyrians. Kurds are killed and their basic rights are violated in Turkey today.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@tahapamuk The most things you write is logical respecting unnecessary die and war, but i can never accept, and will discuss about that, if kurds are turks or not.. Then you have to say that the turks in (Greek, bulgaria, cyprus a.so.) are not turks too.. and you cannot say that millions of people with another language and descent/origin is a turk, that is facism! Another point, "pkk" nobody would die for nothing, nobody dies for no target, try to survive 3 days in the woods, you`ll fail!
schokolataman 1 year ago
@tahapamuk also i will not discuss about the topic, if there was an Kurdish or Armenian genocide, because there was definitifly an genocide. We don`t need to talk about the killings of the facist front in Kahraman Maras a.s.o
You should know, that nobody choose the way to fight for nothing, and gives up his life, instead of having a girlfriend, going to holidays, and enjoying live. Like i said 3 days in the wood, and you `ll understand this, why should the pkk do this? Killing his own people??
schokolataman 1 year ago
the legitimacy of the Turkish government in Turkey is questionable. how can a government represent its people when 20 million people living under its laws are oppressed and denied their basic rights. how can they activate international laws when they violated it themselves when they invaded cyprus. how can they intervene in affairs of foreign countries when their motto is nationalism. Turkey is the biggest joke i have ever heard.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature What about the Indians, they're not put in r? If I use the same logic like you did, then I should say the US is even a bigger joke... It's easy to judge others isn't it? "We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their acts." -Harold Nicolson-
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest the native americans practice their culture without any interference from the government or discouragement. they have their representatives and in the areas in which they are a majority they control the resources and management of the area. you cannot compare Turkey to USA because USA is a country which is leading the world in development and progress. mesopotamia and anatolia were the center of civilization before turks invaded it. now there is only bad government and corruption.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature "USA is a country which is leading the world in development and progress" haha you actually believe this? What about the US backing from the US of Saudi royals, the country with the biggest oilreserves, yet it's citizens are starving and living under islamic opression? I hope you see the contradiction here... They came to "liberate" Iraq, while we all know what the real reason is. Saddam was put in power by the US, but it wasn't playing "ball" anymore so he had to go.
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature You see the US isn't that interested in human rights or progress, they're only intersted in domination. Where was the US when Sadam, put in power by the US, killed thousands of Kurds? So you see the US isn't intersted in the Kurds, only when it fits them. So stop using double-standards plz, judge yourselves before judging others... -.-
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest USA created the UN charter of human rights. before their influence in world politics feudalistic ideology was the common philosophy of governments. without the US funds from charity and other influences in world politics the people of Africa would have long been vanished and even even communist countries like Vietnam and north Korea rely on US food supplies. protecting the Kurds in Turkey and middle east is another human rights mission which USA is undertaking.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature You're missing a big point here on Viëtnam!!! Who killed more then millions of people in Viëtnam in the first place... Twisting facts is becoming a hobby these days... Lol first killing and leave the country in ruins, now they're "helping". This is why the world thinks why Americans are dumb, they acually believe their own propaganda just like you, but the world knows better... Every superpower is doomed to fail, if you know history you'll know this... so will the USA fail...
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature "protecting the Kurds in Turkey and middle east is another human rights mission which USA is undertaking." Anyone who belives this has an IQ under 50. It's not human rights mission you zionist, it's war!!! I can't blame you, the propagandamachine in the US left it's people living in a fantasyworld where their government is there to liberate the world. -.- USA 4 percent of the world's population, yet they consume 1/4 of the world's oilsupply, no wonder there is poverty... -.-
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest the rise of saddam hussein is not due to US politics in the area, its due to Turkish and Iranian politics. dividing Kurdistan is the main contributer to instability in the area. the rise of saddam was due to the divided people of Iraq. the same is with the shah and the modern Islamic republic, its also the destiny of Turkey. the solution of keeping Kurds occupied and oppressed is not new, its been tried in every way and it does not work. lets try the obvious one, freedom for people.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature "the rise of saddam hussein is not due to US politics in the area, its due to Turkish and Iranian politics." Dude omg how can someone even write this kind on nonsens. You actually believe this? Read some facts instead of fairytales!!!
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest Turkey encouraged the nationalism and anti Kurdish behavior of saddam. Turkey only opened is door on Kurdish refugees who were escaping the genocide because of international pressure. Iran was the first country to take Kurdish refugees but they also sent their own spies back along with the refugees when the massacre ended and established the Islamic movements in the areas of Halabja in an attempt to invade northern Iraq. they bombed Kurdish cities and beheaded Kurdish peshmerga
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature "Hussein, while only in his early 20s, became a part of a U.S. plot to get rid of Abd al-Karim Qasim. Hussein was installed in an apartment in Baghdad on al-Rashid Street directly opposite Qassim's office in Iraq's Ministry of Defense, to observe Qassim's movements. The move was done with full knowledge of the CIA, and Hussein's CIA handler was an Iraqi dentist working for CIA and Egyptian intelligence" These are facts!! not fairytales like you're writing! Nice try tho -.-
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest saddam was a close ally of Russia, if he was a US spy working in Iraq why didn't he buy US weapons, why did he spend all of Iraqi' resources on Diplomacy with the soviet union? you are taking everything and twisting it so that it means something else. north vietnam invaded south vietnam and massacred the oppositions against the socialist movements. this was a war which was backed by China. after the Us troops pulled out of Vietnam, China carried out an invasion of its own
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Dude I'm not gonna argue with you anymore, cuz obviously you're producing your own facts, while I do research and answer you back with facts... So if you want all answers do your own research... Google is your friend, look it up.. Go wikipedia and type Saddam US and read it yourself.. And those other points too! And if anyone's reading this do the research!!! The you'll know who's right who's wrong...
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest i imagine you believe the CIA posts all their secret missions and operations online. i am only assessing situation and making my own conclusion. i have spoken to Palestinians and even they agreed on the fact that arab nations have turned their backs on Palestinians and its only countries like Iran and Turkey that are keeping the conflict going because they want a peace of the profit. the state of Israel is legally recognized as a country by Egypt, Jordan some other arab countries.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@DeKutnest why would i make anything up. i am not asking you to fight against your government, i am only asking you to recognize the mistakes they are making because its your lives they are gambling on. why do you believe Turkey has the right to throw Kurds out of their home or pressure them into accepting a foreign rule when clearly this is an act of aggression and Kurds have every right to resort to violence to get their basic human rights.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@DeKutnest you can't turn around and blame Israel for invading Palestine when Turks themselves have done similar thing in Anatolia. while Israelis have historical claims to Israel because it was the land of Jews before it was the land of arabs, Turks have no historical claims to anatolia. Turks are wiping out a culture which has no other home apart from the land they call Kurdistan while Israel is fighting a culture which has occupied much of africa and continues to expand under Islam.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@DeKutnest you are not gona argue because you have nothing to argue about. you have not got any good reason to back your opinion up. you accuse me of spreading propaganda when i am just a normal person who is interested in politics. i am not delusional like the people of arabia and Turkey who turn their eyes away from reality and pretend things don't exist or treat them differently and think they are fooling the word when the only person that is fooled are themselves.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature aka TheScienceofFICTION, I already said that Turkey has work to do regarding the Kurds, but you're telling me that Israël is right to emprison 1.5 million people in Gaza just because they voted for Hamas? People who actually believe your comments are the ones that are believing Fox news, F(ucked up)air and B(iased)alanced... -.- You should watch some refuseniks talk about the Palestinian issue...
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest my friend came back from a holiday in Turkey yesterday, he is from Pakistan, he said he had met some Kurds who he got into a conversation with and out of no where they expressed their dissatisfaction with the Turkish people and how the government promoted and encouraged discrimination against Kurds. Kurds are only forced to act as if they like Turkish government, the case of smile and wave for the camera. this Kurds worked in a holiday resort, nothing to do with PKK.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Dude for your blind support for Israël it's clear to everyone that you support zionazism, so why would I even consider you neutral and not biased? And that's the main reason I wont argue with you anymore... We all know how delusional zionists are... -.-
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest when someone like me exposes the truths and makes solid arguments backed by solid facts, someone like you accuses them of spying and spreading propaganda for a foreign government. i am just a civilian, maybe well informed but thats not a crime. its a crime to be misinformed. the reason Israel has separated the Gaza strip from the rest of Israel is because terrorists were easily finding their way into Israeli cities, kidnapping jewish civilians and detonating bombs.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Haha I like this comment, it shows that you're neutral... -.-
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest i guess in Turkey anyone who is too intelligent is accused of being foreign spies and executed thats why they are not very bright when it comes to politics and governing. europe was similar in the dark ages, they used to kill intelligent woman accusing them of being witches. Turkey is the modern version of the dark ages in europe if that is the case. most crusaders ended up working in middle east as slaves, maybe there is something in the genes.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@DeKutnest you strike me as someone who listens and absorbs information unlike other Turks i have talked to. so i enjoyed exchanging some opinions with you. don't listen to me though, i might be a spy lol. just see the world as a human not a Turk. they say good is in the details. if you want to know the truth you will need to invest your own time into it rather than allow others to make up facts for you. my only aim was to show you that Kurds in Turkey are not monsters as your government depicts
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
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@TheScienceofnature "my only aim was to show you that Kurds in Turkey are not monsters as your government depicts."
I've said two times that Turkey has the work on giving the Kurds more freedom, you don't have to tell me that. The thing that bothers me the most is that you're keep defending Israël and attacking Turkey. The US media is biased on Israël, try to look elswhere then the US media and you'll know what I mean...
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature They're are a lot of Jews against zionism btw. Type "frefuseniks" and watch a few videos, then I hope you'll see how delusional you are on the Palestinian issue... This is my last comments for this, unlike you I have better things to do... btw how much is the Aipac paying you? -.-
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest lol, if i was a spy i would be pretty damn busy to be answering your comments on youtube. i do not support zionism nor anything that ends in ism. the case of Israel against Palestinians is the case of the big guy portrayed as the bully when its the Palestinians that have refused to live together with the Jews. i don't know how much you know about the history of Israel but if you would bother to know, you would find that its always Israel that offer the hand of peace.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@DeKutnest i wasn't even talking about the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, i was talking about Kurds. they are very different issues. you cannot oppress Kurds because Israel has a country and USA backs them up. arabs are occupiers themselves. they occupied ever land outside saudi arabia. i won't say Israel is wrong or Palestine is wrong, i know Kurds are right to fight and Turks don't over Kurdistan.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
There was never a Kurdistan dude, and there was a Palestine. Israël has no right to kill innocent civilians and occupy and oppress them! I'm saying that Israël is wrong, and Palestine is right! There are even Jews wich are against the zionistic illegal occupation. You don't know anything in the middle-east... keep supporting zionism and keep attacking others like in this case Turkey, it makes you very neutral in politics. -.- You have your view and I have mine and nothing will change that...
DeKutnest 1 year ago
@DeKutnest you are wrong about your history. there were Kurdish states, Emirates before Kurdistan was divided. Kurds can trace their ancestors back to as far as the time of the ancient Sumerians, that is as far back as history goes. Palestine was a state who a Kurdish leader named Salahadine liberated from Crusaders. don't be fooled by the false history enemies of Kurds write about Kurds. Palestine is a settlement which Jews built, Romans destroyed and arabs invaded.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature This is a very interesting debate you guyz are having. Please allow me to drop in. There are a couple of things that I'd quickly state, kurds have the right to fight, i agree, like everyone else demanding a piece of land as theirs' because of historical connotations they do have that right. But shouldn't the U.S pressure their current puppet govt in Iraq to liberate the kurd regions of Iraq? Why has the U.S labelled kurds as terrorists?
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox USA hasn't labelled Kurds as terrorists, they have labelled the PKk as terrorists. they are only an organizations, they represent some Kurds along with many other Kurdish organizations. but Turkey wants the PKK to be the most popular one because the PKK commits acts of violence. they are also a socialist part in nature. this is the perfect prey to bring the west into the conflict in the favor of Turks.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Kurds have many different organizations representing different parts of the Kurdish society. this is what democracy is. we cannot oppress a population of Kurds because the west disagrees with them, we have nationalist parties, Liberal parties, Islamic parties. the Liberals and nationalists are the most popular parties in Kurdish society. but Turkey only hypes up about the PKK because they can use them as an excuse to attack southern Kurdistan and influence the western opinion
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox as for northern Iraq, the only reason the Kurds are forces to remain inside the borders of Iraq is because of pressure from Turkey. Turkey said if Kurds ever declared Independence in northern Iraq, they would invade all of Iraq. they even brought some 50 thousand soldiers to the border, USA had to step in and prevent them from launching any operations into Iraq. they agreed not to invade but they continue to send spies and poisonous food to northern Iraq as an act of sabotage
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox many Kurds have died from foods brought from Turkey by Turkish smugglers. entire farms have shut down because their animals died from poisoned food from Turkey. every act of terrorism and unrest committed inside the borders of Kurdistan (including Kirkuk) are committed by Turkish groups and Turkish spies. they are the single obstacle in middle east whose interests go against those of the people and prevent stability and progress in many parts of the world. including Greece.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@DeKutnest the Turkish policy of converting and consuming Kurdistan is not in the best interests of the Turkish people either. any politician that takes this route reveals only their lack of knowledge on the subject and should not be empowered to carry out such actions. politics only works when people get involved. the Turkish government uses the fear of Kurds against its own people to deny them their rights as well. like the Islamic republic of Iran uses the fear of america to control people.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Brother you have just picked the kind of apples you like from the apple tree and haven't answered any of my questions. PKK is the only known kurdish party, when i said kurds i meant pkk. Even if i agree to you that there are many other representative parties of kurds than the argument is that what will kurds achieve if they don't have a single voice of their own. And surely if the U.S wills it can create an independent kurdish country, Ankara won't be able to do a thing.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox Ankara can do a lot of things and they do a lot of things as well. i have read and watched many news reports from Kurdistan in which they discourage any form of trading and imports from Turkey because they say those products are unsafe for use. farmers have come on TV showing their stocks wiped out from poisonous food which have been imported from Turkey. this is not something new, turkey did the same thing to Armenians when they became a country.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox the PKK is the smallest Kurdish party. their active members do not exceed 4000 and their supporters no more than 5000. but because Turkey puts the spotlight on them all the time, they are the only people by which europe and Turkish people recognizes Kurds. only in recent years the opinions of the west changed towards Kurds when they became more directly involved in the Kurdish issue. in southern Kurdistan alone there is over 6 different political parties representing Kurds.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Where are you getting these reports of poisionous food from? I have never heard of them. Kindly share.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox the KDTP (Kurdish democratic party of Turkey) can rally hundreds of thousands of Kurds in one call. the PKK could not do this in their wildest dreams. the KDTP is a peaceful Kurdish political party which is active in pursuing Kurdish interests in Turkey. how many people know about them? if Turkey was serious about peace and prosperity they wouldn't provoke violence by disrespecting Kurds, they would put the spotlight on peaceful movements of Kurds not on violence to raise hatred
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox in Turkey there are 20 different political groups representing Kurds. ranging from nationalists, to Islamic and ideologists. in Iran there is 4 different political groups fighting for Kurdish freedom. in syria about 3 more. this is democracy not Turkey when they use all their efforts, knowledge and diplomatic power to oppress Kurds and Turks alike. the Turkish government is a pathetic excuse of a government. its hardly different from the outdated feudalistic, imperialist governments.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature The poisionous food thing is just absurd man but perhaps it is the sort of the proapaganda that Kurdish people of Iraq need against Turkey. Many kurds withing turkey are now very happy, this government is the first one to allow them the chance to celebrate "Nauroz" which the previous governments didn't allow, it has freed many prevoius political prisoners. The economy of Turkey is growing rapidly. How do you call the government pathetic? You, brother, have a bias.....
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox giving them the freedom to be themselves is not a bonus, its their god given rights. taking it away is pure evil and uncivilized. the idea of a nation like Turkey poisoning people like Kurds is quite unbelievable i know. but that doesn't mean its not true. i have seen outdated food, food with dangerous chemicals, even building products are all of poor quality and cause deaths throughout Kurdistan. all of which costs the economy money which makes Kurds poor and kills people.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Kurds have never done anything to Turks. its always Turkey who triggers the fire in some way and begins the slaughter of Kurdish civilians accusing them of terrorism. no one even bothers to ask any question. Kurds have the right to live in their own lands, govern themselves and chose their own destiny. they are not born slaves to serve the interests of Turks or arabs. treating them in this manner will give them the right to be violent. Turks would do worse in that position.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Dude your arguments are turning profoundly stupid, the turkish government poisoning that KURDS...wow! What an argument, the govt of turkey does not produce food or building material, communist govts do that.. then one begs to ask the question, why buy from turks...buy from someone else... and i know freedom is a virtue but to have that virtue was a rareity for the Kurds... Erdogan has given them back what was theirs..no one else had those balls... so please stop your crap
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox smugglers bring those foods into Kurdistan. Turkey cannot produce food and building materials for export? then why are there so many Turkish companies in northern Iraq? Ibrahim tatlse is the face of Turkish economical occupation of northern Iraq. Kurds cannot be free in Turkey unless the constitution is changed in which Kurds are given rights by law to be themselves, even if its inside the borders of Turkey, they must be Kurds in Kurdistan not Kurds in Turkey.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox the model that could work in Turkey is the model of the UK government. Scots, English and welsh all live inside the borders of Great Britain however they each have their own parliament and elect their own parties to govern their region with their own budget to spend on what they want. this creates stability and peace as well as paving the way for development. modern Turkish constitution creates unrest, hatred because Turks get more than everyone and is disrespectful to other cultures
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature You babling on without any coherence. THE TURKISH GOVT DOES NOT MAKE ANY FOOD AND BUILDING MATERIAL FOR EXPORT, it is private industries that do that. If there are turkish companies in northern iraq then it is not turky's fault, it is the American occupiers' fault to let them do that but they won't say a word because they themselves are occupying a land. Of course you would pin anything on them because you are biased. Why don't you ask for the same UK model in Iraq and Iran?
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox the same model is the only model that works in any multi cultural or multi national country. both Iraq and Iran have the same issue with their population as they don't represent anyone but themselves. Iran has long been fighting guerilla wars with Kurds and the Baluchi and it will continue to do so until they are given formal rights. besides, Turkey sees itself as a country which is worthy to stand amongst the developed nations of the EU. these developments are simple to fail
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature The fact of the matter is that there is no geographical division between the kurdish parts of turkey. They are only around 20% the total population of Turkey. It is around the same % of population of South Asians in the UK, should UK provide them with a separte governmental system? You arguments are dumb and loaded with hatred towards Turkey.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox the Kurds did not migrate to Turkey, they are native to the ancient land of Anatolia. the south asian population of UK agreed to migrate to the UK by accepting the British law, British constitution, culture and government. they are either asylum seekers or are there under work or education permit. Kurds in Turkey were there when the constitution was written, they were simply disregarded. Kurds are not refugees for gods sake. they are occupied by Turks.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Well if you go on about history and how native people were occupied then there will be no united states, no australia, no new zealand and i can go on... you argument does not hold water
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox i am not talking about america or what ever land. if turks had created a nation a quarter as successful as the united states and Australia i doubt they would be so keen in wiping Kurds out. they would be living in a multi cultural society like USA and Australia. also comparing Ordugan to the previous rulers of Turkey is not gona get us anywhere. as we have agreed that what has been done to Kurds in the past was wrong. to make it right we cannot use it as a scale of measurement.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Well this video isn't about kurds but we are talking about them, so i can talk about whoever i choose and compare erdogan to turks rulers of previous age as that is relevant even if we agree the past was bad. And if you think australia and american are succesful on racial ground than look no further than katrina where bush let blacks die and look no further than jhon howard who refused to apologize only a few years ago.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox there is no formal census of the Kurdish population. everyone who carries out any census seems to get a different result. my best guess is somewhere between 25 to 30 million as there are many Kurds in Turkish populated areas that are counted as Turks. the reason there is no formal division between the Kurdish and Turkish parts is because the unity is maintained by military means. i am not saying divide up Turkey, i am saying a large portion of the country that is neglected is unjust
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox without security and recognition of the Kurdish ethnicity by Turkey as distinctive population with full human rights in the constitution there is no guarantee that everything Ordugan does for Kurds won't be undone by the next government. by throwing away the nationalist, intolerant image of Turkey and replacing it with a multi cultural and diverse nation which it is in nature, only then Turkey is a legal country whose legitimacy cannot be denied.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox the Turkish government can invade and attack Kurds for eternity, it will only make things worse. they can destroy the PKK a million times and another organization will replace them. because all this money has been spent and lives lost, they haven't really done anything about the problem. the problem is that Turkey needs to recognize Kurds and empower them to develop themselves. governments are there for the people not their own interests. thats why people die for their country.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Kurds live in poverty in Turkey. i have been there, i really feel sorry for them. the Turkish government has driven them back a thousand years. arming clans and building watch towers throughout the Kurdish cities. it feels like a prison. i was there for 2 days and i wanted to fight. the image of armed Turkish soldiers itself is intimidating to people never mind what they do to Kurds behind closed doors. i have seen Kurds beaten to death by police officers only a year or two ago.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature So you deny Turkey's legitimacy, you are a buffon if you do that. Does Israel have that kind of legislation to ensure the proportionate representation of the Arabs within it's boundries? does it have the laws the ensure that West bank and east Jerusulam do not become occupied territories? In fact isreal builds upon them occupies them and has no plan hand them back, now that is a country that can't be called legitimate. Tukey on the other hand considers Kurds as turks.
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Much like the way the native indians and blacks are considered americans in america. Why should they be treated any differently than any other turkish person in the eyes of the law. Turks have never invaded iraq, they attack only when provoked. Turkey has democracy and it represents the people on that proportion, human rights are same for every turkish national. Kurds live in poverty because they choose no to integrate themselves.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox Turkey was not very far from invading Iraq, they sent some 50 thousand troops to occupy Iraq but USA prevented them from doing so. Turkey Occupied Cyprus, they occupied anatolia to begin with. never mind all the troubles they caused in other parts of the world by laying claim to occupied territories they had failed to defend.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Turkey can and will invade iraq if americans can't keep the kurds from shooting and killing turks on the other side of the border, if america can stop them from invading surely it can provide kurds with a country an autonomy. Dont lecture me about turkish empire building of past coz i know all about it, yet it is only decent country on the face of earth in today's day and age... period!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox Kurdistan is autonomous, but Turkey is the only country that has problem with this. the Kurds that fight Turks are not from Iraqi Kurdistan, they are from the Turkish Kurdistan. they are in the Kandil mountains, Turkey has tried to get to them for as long as they have existed and have failed to get to the PKk. why do they come to Iraqi Kurdistan to get back at the PKK. the Turkish people are so misinformed and misled that they can't tell the difference between black and white
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox the united states elected a black president, would Turkey ever elect a Kurdish president? to come on Turkish national TV and confirm his place of birth and ethnicity? Australian politicians publicly went on TV and confirmed all the crimes they committed against the natives and apologized for it. they reassured those native cultures to be protected by government law. would Turkey ever think about something like that for Kurds?
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox non of the terrorist attacks committed against Turkish civilians was committed by Kurds, but pro Turkish nationalists. old generals who still receive funds from the government and they use it to recruit Turks and make them carry out acts of terror against civilians to create hatred towards Kurds. one of these groups were exposed and the Turkish government quickly made them disappear and dumbed the population down with distractions.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox during the long history of Kurdish rebellion and struggle for freedom, not in any circumstances have Kurds carried out any acts of terrorism or targeted civilians. only when there was a foreigner (either Turk or arab) behind it. Turks did the same in cyprus when they sent Turks to kill the Turkish civilians in the island to use it as an excuse to invade it. this was all over the news back in the days.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Your propaganda talk is full of half truths and outright myths that have been conjured up by those who hate to see erdogan talk against the Israelis and for the Palestinians, you want people to stay busy in their own problems. The fact of the matter is that what Erdogan has done for the Kurds even the U.S hasn't been able to do that in Iraq. If U.S has elected a black president it just for people like you to quote... we all know AIPAC runs the U.S.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox haha, you just jumped ahead of me and accused me of doing what you are doing, twisting the truths. what the hell has Ordugan done for Kurds than you are so upset about? he allowed them to be Kurds? that my friend was under intense Political pressure. Turkeys image has already been ruined, these are attempts to regain trust.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox the united states have never under any circumstances harmed a Kurdish grass. on top of that he has given the Iraqi Kurds full sovereignty and independence to govern themselves under their protection. that my friend is history. no nation has ever treated Kurds with such respect. of course these actions only reveal the wisdom and honor of the nation that is USA, they would have trust and believe in almost any human, no matter how oppressed or hopeless their situation is.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Australia only apologized but tell me has the situation of the aboriginals improved? It hasn't. Why should turkey apologize to kurds when they have never been mstreated out of intent. The case is simple, if kurds want to join in the turkish life, there can't be a better time than erdogan's government. About the kurds in Iraq, they will be shot down everytime they try and breach Turkey's defences.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox once again you are not understanding the problem. Kurds do not want to be Turks. they do not want to abandon their 10 thousand year old heritage for the less than 100 year old Turkey. they will fight non stop and believe me they are not afraid of Turks or anyone. if they were they wouldn't have survived under all the oppression and mistreatment they have received under Turks. and you just proved the mindset that is Turks, intolerant and uneducated thoughts that benefits no one.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox you telling me its ok to invade Turkey, prevent them from speaking their language and use the name Turk to describe themselves? and if they breach these laws they shall be imprisoned and killed. these are the laws which Turkey has placed on Kurds. its provocative and intended for one purpose, to give Turkey the right to kill Kurds. Kurds have played their cards rights thats why they still exist. and you are telling me Turkey has never harmed Kurds? why are you fooling yourself mate
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature It is you who is trying to fool everyone perhaps to just malign Turkey, you have no favors to give to the Kurdish people. You just want to blow your flute so that people may think lower of Turkey. Now here are the facts, Kurdish language is the second official language of the country, Kurds can call themselves kurds, they are free to participate in the democratic life of the Turkey. All this was done by erdogan. Now brother, would you kindly...SOD OFF!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox to tell you the truth i am not exactly sure if all these things you have said are true. it probably is because i heard that some senior military officials were arrested because they tried to topple the government in a military coup. for this to happen Ordugan must have really pissed them off. the military class of Turkey are the biggest enemy of Kurdish rights. however this cannot overwrite the fact that Turkey seeks to cease northern Iraq. it could be a political stunt.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox the reason i do not trust in all these moves is because the Turkish constitution is quite the opposite of that. it discriminates against any non Turkish ethnicities. so you have to ask yourself the question, is Ordugan more powerful than the Turkish constitution? how long can Kurds have freedom for and is Ordugan doing this because of western pressure or is he doing it because he believes this is the solution.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox finally how can i favor Turkey when they are such an aggressive, unpopular nation in the area. we can all shut our eyes and pretend that Turkey is lawful, fair and wise nation or we can judge the facts and see for ourselves that the foundation on which Turkey is built is quite outdated and is bound to create problems in Turkey. the west cannot support turkey in discrimination and aggression. and Kurds cannot be blamed for fighting back against these actions.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Who want you to favor turkey... you just keep your nose out of turkey's business. You don't trust erdogan...fine, you don't trust turkey...fine... we don't trust you either. Kurds are happy, are in the parliament, have representation.. these are the facts that go beyond you assertions and assumptions. So please stop spreading hatred that has no value
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox Iraq is not Turkey's business. Turkey has always been a major obstacle to peace in Iraq. even saddam was always trying to make peace with Kurds but Turkey would always threaten them with sanctions and blocking the fresh water supplies going into Iraq if Iraq made peace with Kurds. but now saddam is gone, Iraq once again belongs to the world and humanity not Turks and arabs. Kurds have every right to be independent and have government in Iraq, Turkey will just have to change policies
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox if Kurds cause problems to Turkey its only because Turkey acts like a childish gangster towards them. if Kurds are violent its only because Turks taught them to be that way. Turkey is the government not Kurds. everything wrong done inside Turkey the Turkish government will be blamed not the civilians. as for Iraqi Kurds, if Turkey doesn't stop creating problems there rest assured the conflict in Iraq will reach Turkey as well soon enough.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Turkey wants none of Iraq... It won't have any advantage by destabalizing iraq. In fact it is the U.S that is poking her nose all over the world, they want Pakistan now to attack the taliban while they themselves talk of peace with them in Afghanistan. The kurds in Iraq are U.S's headache, and if they don't put an end to the problems they create for turkey then turkey knows how to tackle them. And look at you talk... Iraq belongs to humanity and the world...?
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox Turkey thinks that if the Kurds of Iraq get an independent nation, the Kurds of Turkey will also rise up. of course this is true, but then again they have the right to be free, occupying their territory in the first place was a mistake not allowing them to be free. all those Iraqis were killed not by US troops but by Turkish, Iranian and arabic backed terrorist organizations. what is Iraq, Iraq is not even a real country. the British and Turkey forced them to live together.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox when in the history of humanity a country was built for the interests of its neighboring countries? countries are built around a group of people, they are built around one culture, one civilization. not forcing three different cultures together and keeping them together by making threats to them and at the point of the sword. that is Iraq, if Turkey didn't want Iraq to be united Iraq would have long been three distinctive nations. also the British built Iraq for Kurds not arabs.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Turkey is the source of all the problems in Iraq. they wont allow the country to be divided and they won't allow Kurds do be an active member in the country. Kirkuk is a Kurdish city and they wont allow Kurds who were thrown out to return to their own city. they won't allow a Kurdish city to be Kurdish, and you blame PKK for killing Turkish soldiers? if they didn't fight with Turks then i would justify their death. because the tyranny of Turkey is worthy of punishment. they are patriots
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature It is u.s that occupies iraq and no one in his right mind would deny it except of course for propagandists like you. And turkey has to kurdish problem from the inside, it is the pKK terrorists from across broder fostered by U.S these days to undermine erdogan's govt's stance against israel. It is really very simple but for your blindness of ignorance.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox i am ignorant? you talk about the people of Iraq, who are the people of Iraq? Kurds are the people of Iraq. and Turkey doesn't want Kurds getting anything. i am sorry but Turkey has no right and is in no position to decide the destiny of Kurds. they are a distinctive culture of people and without their recognition Turkey will always find itself having to fight Kurdish rebels. Turkey has created the problem not USA. why won't they recognize Kurdish freedom? thats the problem.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature SHUT THE FUCK UP! You are a complete idiot, arguing with you is like talking to the wall. You have the IQ of a planckton. There is no single country on this planet that has one culture.. america has white, hespanic, black, jewish and amish culutures, china has mainland, cantonese, tibet even turkish culture, indian has so many different cultures that it has 22 secessionist movments in its midst, why don't you talk about them? You are full of bias and full of shit!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox the while europeans, mainly citizens of British origins founded the united states, China was built by the mandarine ethnicity, Indian people have built India, all of the people in India belong to the indian civilization apart from Pakistanis who are Mongolian by origin. the people in these nations are all on the same wavelength, they agree and cooperate. in Iraq the slightest disagreement leads to total war and with the cultural makeup of the country disagreements are guaranteed.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox if you are as clever as you think you are then prove me wrong, don't dismiss me for an idiot. everyone can swear, those are the characteristics of uncivilized, savage people. your bad language is a sign of weakness and lack of logical response. in all your arguments you have completely overlooked everything that is important, the people. you seem to think that people are some kind of tools and they must do what ever they are asked to do.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature You deserve to be ridiculed and sweared on because as i said you have an IQ of a planckton. You have just proved me right by ignoring what FACTS i've quoted, all the nations you labelled as one are anything but one. The british who FOUND the U.S had to capture and kill the natives in order to calim that they FOUNDED that tact of land and for God's sake Pakistanis are not Mangols
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature ... tell you what i'll take everything back and call you a genious and curse the Turks if you prove yoruself right by quoting one authentic source that says indians are all of indian ethnicity and that pakistanis are mongols or that british founded U.S or that whole of china agrees on cooperate. if you can't do that then you have to write here that you kiss your own butt whole and that therez a kurd living up there
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox USA is a British originated society in many ways, for starters the colonies of New York, Virginia...etc most of the original states were British colonies. secondly, if you take a look at the united states declaration of independence you will find that its strikingly similar if not directly from the writings of the famous English philosopher John Locke. finally the entire nation of USA communicates with the language of the British people if slightly tampered with.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature You are a buffon aren't you, what of the people who originally inhibited these lands? the Red Indians the racist scum bags called them then. They are the natives of the land and the british were the first to invade their lands after which came wave after wave of settlers from europe including jews, also bringing black slaves with them to cultivate their cotton fields. This is the truth that you try to conceal.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox i would much rather talk to my wall at home than you. you have no knowledge of any history, culture or have the slightest awareness of the world around you. it doesn't matter how many times i prove you wrong you just give me a headache by bringing up topics completely unrelated. the last government to rule Pakistan was the Mughal empire, an Islamic empire of Mongol origins. the first government to rule Pakistan after the British was an Islamic government
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Finally, the native americans had no country, they were hunter gatherers who by no laws of civilization owned the lands they dueled in, to own a land you must put your labour into it. for starters they were nomads, secondly no ancient artifacts of native americans exist in the united states, only in south america. that indicates that the native americans of northern america could have also been no more than migrants from the southern civilizations.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature You have proved to me that you indeed know nothing but posess a vandetta against the Turks.. But you will never succeed because truth stands tall and falsehood like yours is bound to be destroyed when met with truth!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox i don't need to make anything up to prove that Turks lack the skills to govern. those facts are self evident. you are the one who is in denial. there has been a war between Kurds and turks non stop for a hundred years and you are saying Kurds have no problem in Turkey. how dare you even give yourself the right to argue amongst reasonable people. you said if i could prove my point you would agree that you are an idiot, i did and you dismissed it.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature the native americans first attacked the white settlers. the european settlers tried to establish trade and relations with the native americans but they attacked and killed them, you cannot start a war and expect the other side to stop when you are losing. this is the sign of their savagery, they had not diplomacy, no government and no law by which they could establish themselves the owners of north america. only the fact that they were there. thats the same as the buffaloes.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox let me give you a piece of advice, you as a Turks should never talk about the truth. because the truth is you are all gypsies who migrated to anatolia and invaded it, you committed the genocide of Armenians, you invaded Cyprus against all international laws, you continue to oppress and murder Kurds in their home and never stop converting and destroying the Kurdish culture. and you won't stop there, you will continue to spread your backwards ideas with your savage characteristics.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature It was better had you not replied at all for the only thing that you've done is that you've pulled off the last pieces of cloth guarding your privates, now you are naked before me and honestly you look ugly. Your point are: 1. The native americans had no right and were savage so the british n europeans had the right to exterminate them and their culture. 2. You say that since Mughal empire was mongol and that is why all pakistanis are mongols... wow!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox the native americans had no civilization in northern america, they didn't even have governments or philosophies. they were by no right the owners of northern america. the white europeans were not owners either, but they put their labour into the land and made it into the most successful nation in the world in which even the native americans are better for it. the history of USA is proud of its native american heritage, it does not deny it nor oppress the remaining populations.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Fact remains that you didn't quote one author or authentic source to defend your claims... i don't have to rebuke you anymore... if you don't know shit about the world's most important countries today how the hell can talk about a flimsy, madeup issue which is the kurds pitted against turks... I've only talked of facts... you've talked about fantasies...no wonder a kurd lives up your butt hole...fukin idiot!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox no you have only talked about simple misrepresented facts, i have talked about the more complicated truths. the ones most politicians are afraid to talk about or even mention because it will cause havoc and will challenge the foundation of many modern countries. i personally believe anything can survive if you cover up for it and allow it to do what ever it pleases them, e.g. Turks writing the history of Kurds. only if they survive after the challenges they have the right to exist.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Turkey is a nation built on false sense of confidence and an even more false sense of security. it does not have what we call legal government. its a militarized nation who imposes laws for its own benefit rather than its people, it represents a minority of immigrants who by moral and legal rights do not have the right to call Anatolia Turkey.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox the Turks used the culture of arabs, Kurds and Greeks on the lands of Kurds, Armenians and Greeks, on the foundation of the middle eastern and european societies. what is Turk if not merely an issue of race and ethnicity? everything your people are proud of belongs to another civilization, those your people vanquished, why not live with them and allow growth than to destroy them because they are not Turks by genes. what is the difference between this state and Nazism?
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox they too rose to power for no particular reason but the vague issue of race and nationality. Jews where born, bred and contributed to the german society and were slaughtered for being Jewish. Turkey does the same to Kurds, why can they not exist by being different? why must they become Turks for them to have rights? what is it that Turks have and Kurds don't? the fact that Turks can kill and fail to respect anything outside their own? that is not civilized. that is savage.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature secessionist movements going on at the moment from among it's 27 provinces... these are facts that no one denies rather than a theory from some philosopher. Yes you claim that each of these countries has their entire population at the same wavelength. You are a clown... The real issue here is the continued occupation and exploitation of Palestininas but you want people to watch the video and then go.. oh turks exploit kurds so Israel may exploit Palestinians... Fuckin Moron!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox according to your theory Turkey is not Turkish either. it has a lot of Kurdish people living in it. but the language is Turkish, the people that rule the government are Turkish, what does that make it? if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck what they found was a duck. i can tell your frustration from your use of offensive words. i know i have a point i use reason, you know you are ignorant you resort to uncivilized manners.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox i will reply to you no more. i have made my point and i wouldn't want to educate an enemy of freedom and humanity any further. clearly the difference between me and you is you seek a solution for the benefit of Turks and i seek a solution for the benefit of humanity. they are two very different things. i know i am right because history tells us that humanity lasts longer than nationality. many nations have perished before, far more civilized and advanced than Turks.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox historians write what benefits their employers. i have given you the source of a primary source. John Locke, have a look at his writings and if you didn't find the exact words written in the declaration of independence of the united states, come and tell me thats not true. i am not saying anyone should exploit anyone. arabs themselves occupied Palestine, why do they have more right over it than Jews? because they did it first? Jews created that land, it was a desert before them.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Turkey and Israel were best friends before, why all the sudden they are arch enemies? its obvious, Israel needs Kurds and turkey hates Kurds.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox and i did quote an author. John Locke is an author. he is the father of modern Liberalism.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature John Locke is not a historian he is a philosopher and he is not a competent authority in this matter. What you are now jumping on about is not what we were talking facts about. American is not british in nature neither directly nor indirectly, it is a mixture of different populations and culture and not everyone is on the same wavelength. You don't know anything about the discrepencies in Mainland China, Hongkong, Sinkiang n Tibet, You don't know that in India there are 22..
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature John Locke is not a neutral reporter of history, i didn't say any author i said an authentic source, which ofcourse you will not able to quote because it is not the truth that you wish to prove. How can I be an enemy of humanity, is turkey not part of humnity or is it because you think that my government is not working alright so you can invade my land because according to you if a govt doesn't exist or work properly a country can be invaded!
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Uncivilized would be to invade your country or try to call you illegitimate because your country has a problem of racial nature and I have a vendetta against your country that can be served by this problem you have. I'm just calling you names that best describe you... I haven't talked about your family or anything i've called you buffon, a fuker, an idiot, having an intellect of a planckton...all of these suit you!
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Historians may write what their bosses tell them too but still you won't find one boss in the world who would've paid to write people that U.S is all british in nature, or that india, china have a homogeneous population or that Pakistanis are children of mongols. Hence you are an ass.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox it doesn't take a genius to figure out the influence of the British culture on USA. somethings are not written not because they don't exist but for the fear of provoking people or just because they are so obvious they don't make an interesting story for people to read. the separation of the united states from Britain was not by any means because of cultural differences, but because of ideological difference. it was Capitalism vs Liberalism.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Did a jewish pussy squirt out the land of palestine? It is still a desert in most places so don't give me shit about it being made by the jews. Let us assume that jews did make the land...so what? they left it thousands of years ago... how does it make it fair to drive some from his home because someone whose fore-fore-fathers used to live their have claimed it as theirs. Where in the history of the world has this happend? You talk of humnaity... just look what you defend...
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Turks and Israelis are no longer friends because Israel continues to occupy palestinian lands and has killed turkish citizens.. Kurds have nothing to do with it..except of course that israel earlier used to provide turks with intelligence about Kurds, it no longer does that and maybe supports PKK now
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature I don't care if you reply or not... I can see turkey grow, israel has lost any legitimacy in most people's eyes. palestinians will, God-Willing, soon get their land, Kurds are our brothers... we will always stand by their side and will make it easier for them to share with us the progress of Turkey. PKK will soon die off. We will rise again to the heights that your own analysts are scared of... God-Willing! Long Live Erdogan, Long Live Turkey...Down with the propagandists!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox my go you are the biggest ignorant, highly misinformed and incredibly stupid individual. do you seriously believe Kurds like living with Turks? do you seriously believe Turkey has any plan of any form to give Kurds a single chance within anatolia if kurds don't resort to violence? Turkey will never stop the Turkification of Anatolia. this is a historical fact. lets just look at the past one hundred years history of Turkey.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Armenian massacres in 1915, anti-Jewish pogroms in 1934, anti-Greek and Armenian pogroms in 1955, the Alevi massacres of 1978, the Sivas massacre of 1993, they all were carefully planned and organized by the deep state elements in Turkey. this country has no intentions to tolerate anything or anyone outside the Turkish speaking population. i have no interest in Turkey's business. i just don't want people being misled about Kurds. they are no terrorists, Turkey is.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
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TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashroxA schizophrenic Western mentality appears when dealing with Turkey’s past and present. They do not want to see that those who carried out all these massacres and the so-called modernizing forces of Turkey were exactly the same people. They do not want to see the continuation between the Turkification of Anatolia and the modernization of Turkey.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox people have the right to fight when threatened. Kurds are defending what is sacred to them, they are being thrown out of their own homes and their rights are violated inside the lands they have lived in for thousands of years. turkey is the aggressor here. USA has invaded Iraq, they have no plans what so ever to convert Iraqis into americans. every territory that was occupied by USA has prospered. look at south Korea and north Korea, look at Japan. USA has resect.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox Iraq was never a country, this is an imaginary border created between the same people called the Kurds. there is no cultural or historical ties between Kurds and arabs apart from the fact that arabs invaded Kurdistan. the same goes for Turkey. these are no governments, they are human eating machines. Kurds are a population of over 40 million people. what gives any nation the right to deny them their rights? you Turks are all softheaded morons.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature hahah you said you wouldn't reply... but you did... a man who reverses on his word is not a man at all... you've proved me right all the time by saying all the stupid things, you claim you want rights for kurds but your are quick to quote incidents in which erdogan had nothing to do. Of course you are a bigoted piece of shit who twists facts to his liking but u fool no one...get the fuck out of here!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox how can i not replay to such ignorance, such ridiculous, misleading and inaccurate information. who is Ordugan? he is just one man who is drawing a cloud over peoples minds to allow the real oppressive, intolerant and violent Turkish constitution and those who impose it do their job without opposition from the people who pay the price in blood. Kurds are not in your debt for allowing them to speak their language in their home land. thats their basic god given rights.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@bashrox the internet is the greatest gift for freedom of speech and i sure as hell am not going to get off here. the internet gives us the power to educate ourselves rather than be educated by our politicians. thats why we no longer need them, we need politicians to serve us rather than us serving them. and we will make examples of dickheads like you who spreads narrow minded views like that. Ordugan is the puppet of the Turkish state, thats what we will change, the Turkish state not Ordugan.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Your profound ignorence is punctuated by every statement that you make, Erdogan is not the guardian of the current constitution. In fact he is the only one who has had the courage to amend it. Kurds are part of the Turkish fabric of life, Erdogan is setting things right and for that he doesn't want the Kurds to ben in debt to him or turks in general. He wants them to co-exist with love. Indeed internet is freedom but the cost of it that we have to brush away pinhead like you.
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox you talk on the basis of Turkey being all the things it isn't. you represent Turkey as a Liberalist, tolerant and multicultural society in which every human is equal and has rights. Turkey is the opposite of all that and more. why do people leave the country and migrate to the rest of the world? its not because Turkey is a poor land, Anatolia is one of the most fertile lands on earth. its because the government, the society is built on false hope and false assumption.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Turkey is indeed tolerant, it is represented by the number of jews who live within turkey and support turkey's stance against israel's occupation of palestinian lands which, must I remind you, is the topic of this video in the first place. In fact most of the nations that you claim as civilizedrecognize this. This is shown in effect by the support turkey recieves from Britain, U.S etc. People move from every country, even the U.S, China, India etc... it shows nothing!
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Neither you... nor thousands of your kind can help stop Turkey from being what it is and what it will grow to become. You can only come on the internet and try to malign Turkey's greatness and Erdogan's courage against Israel..but nothing will change Turkey from it's Destiny to Greatness!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox without your imagination the Turkey you speak of doesn't exist. its in many ways a feudalist or even pre feudalist society. i try not to get into a swearing competition with you. people make personal remarks when they lose the battle of reason. you cannot disprove my argument thats why you are challenging the legitimacy of the source. if you could prove me wrong you would.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Whatever Turkey might be, it has the only high growth rate in the whole of Europe while other european countries were hit with recession. Turkey has had fair and free elections and erdogan has won twice, showing the support he recieves from the people of Turkey. You claim you don't want to get into a swearing competition yet you did call me names. If you arguments are right then surely you can back them up with facts and sources. if you can't then u are making things up.
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature I have proved you wrong more than once (for example by quoting that Pakistanis are not mongols and that India is mixture of races and that U.S was not founded by the british) but you just ignore these because if you accept that then there is no slur left to hurl at Turkey. As I've said before, you are worse than a loser, you are a loser who wouldn't accept losing!
bashrox 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature It has been two days and you haven't responded, either accept defeat like a man or just admit that you do not have an answer!
bashrox 1 year ago
@bashrox lol, you are hilarious man. i wouldn't talk if i didn't have a good reason to base it on. i have been very busy this past few weeks, too much work. but yeah sure, i will give you USA as an example. i won't explain every single example i have given, that will take ages and you won't even be able to look those informations up yourself. e.g. the history of Pakistan is hard to look up since little records exist of their mongol origins. they are descended of the Moghal empire.
TheScienceofnature 1 year ago
@TheScienceofnature Oh shut the fuck up... you konw what is worse than a loser? it is you! Because you won't admit you are at fault. You say won't expalin because i won't be able to look up.. well i don't need to look up because I know these things. Pakistanis are a mixture of different races like india, china and most of all U.S.A and all of these countries have problems within whereas in india, china, paksitan there are proper secessionist movements. You are nothin more than "in denial"