Morir Tremenda Cosa...Urna Fatale - Sherrill Milnes 1983

[Beth29252]

I love this aria, and Milnes sings it wonderfully. I am starting to get tired of the criticisms against Milnes, not that he is being criticised but because some people are expressing themselves in a very opinionated way. True, this is not Milnes at his very best, but charisma wise and musicality wise he is very compelling here. Also calling him king of all who sing flat is unfair and completely off base. In 1976's Tosca and in 1971's Rigoletto recording, both superb, he's dead on in pitch mostly

[Baritanist]

Mics. Woofy. Boo!

[hermanzoon]

It's great to have all of these videos of all of these great singers.

[redgrapeskins]

He tried to summon the ghost of his Idol, Mr Warren here

[ezev8logos]

amazing

[hartmuthopp]

I just love this voice, he got what technique as a baritone you might need, a lot of musicality and a tremendous voice. I miss him a lot

[tenorismo]

LOL MIlnes . YAOWEL DeHHHHHHOWEL . lol lol lol MIlnes he he he ehe

[Labienus]

I'm always amazed by this get Milnes movement He had a great career shortened by some vocal problems that as with many singers we're unsure why

I heard him live many times in his best yrs big burly voice with a brilliant top maybe too obsessed with Warrenitis great appearance, good musician 15 or so great yrs. and we've yet to have a big scale Verdi baritone since him sure Merrill had a greater voice sang forever but generally was dull Mac was fabulous but had bad stretches

[ShawDAMAN]

Good summary =P

[MAR3668]

@Labienus Sherrill Milnes was in Blacksburg Virginia on Monday as a Special Guest to the showing of the 1976 Tosca, and what I saw and found out I hadn't

known that in Maestro Milnes credit that he is a student of Opera. Between the second and third acts, he came to the front of the stage, and talked about singers

and roles, and I know by this that in his day he got into the skin of his roles and did research on them. also when saying who is the greatest baritone, don't forget

Bastiannini also

[Labienus]

@MAR3668 Nice to hear that-I know he was at a Met event this spring honoring baritones including even more of a favorite of mine MacNeil Actually Milnes is not my favorite I just hate as I've said this lack of respect for him Since Milnes' prime I've yet to hear a big voiced soaring baritone voice...and that is saying a lot about him

[AmadeusJMB]

Definitely one of the great influences of my life in singing!

[Vairguy09]

I sang in a Master Class with Mr. Milnes in 1983, and chauffered him around town in Lansing, Michigan. A wonderful man, and very down to earth. Being from Downers Grove, Illinois, he was bound to be just a guy. When asked how he got his break, he stated very emphatically he didn't get a break, he worked very hard for what he got. LOTS of nuance, lot of color and a very musical person.

[operajlb]

One of the greatest baritones of the 20th century!! Saw him many times, great voice and great artist!!!

Justin

[a28594]

What a man !!!!!

[leadoffeohippus]

4:37: WOW.

[hedgechair]

Comment to "Operacaster". You have obviously seen so much more than I, and we all have aural memories that are our own. Just to say that Milnes in June 2008 giving masterclasses at Snape, England, was funny, perceptive, supportive and generous. I have no axe to grind about any great singer, but he seemed to have the lack of ego shared by only the greatest; tinged by regret that glory days were over. He only sang a few phrases, but the voice still has presence. Ps. I was only in the audience.

[chessmann]

Geez, here we go again! Milnes and Shore are both baritones, and that is as close as they get to each other - 2 totally different sounds. I prefer Milnes's sound, others prefer Shore's sound. Milnes was the leading baritone in the world for a good number of years....for a reason. I heard him live, and believe me, there were no holes, and no problems whatsoever with his volume. Only in the early 80's did his decline begin, but even here, some minor flaws, but still GREAT performance overall!

[OperaBaritoneJoe]

Type in "SHERRILL MILNES-HOMAGE TO VERDI-PART TWO" he sounds about 2 time's better in that version of him sining Urna Fatale.

[operacaster]

and if u did hear milnes live, did u listen with an educated ear or just so happy to be at the opera that everyone was just 'marvelous...'. have you heard any of the people like merrill, warren, or bastiannini, or nucci, or quilico, corelli or others when they were good. otherwise, you puttin your 2 cents worth in is really of very small importance. those that knew of gobbi do u really know of him and what he could do. of course it wasn't the greatest voice. but there's more there.

[operacaster]

'going on'..

except for the beginning of his career had vocal troubles and quit singing the highest parts like rigoletto early because othe tessitura. he could be a miserable person to be around because of his ego, many of his peers couldn't stand him, he ended up gettin fired at the met because he said something to jimmy that jimmy didn't like. if u compare shore to milnes compare the good stuff. listen to that little thing from astis by shore. there's reality. but sure u all know better

[operacaster]

i'd like to ask a ? to all you milnes supporters that think he was the greatest thing since peanut butter. did any of u really ever hear him live in the house? not just on recording? i will give u an honest review of him. he was tall and looked good on stage. he was an excellent muscian. decent on stage. had very secure high notes. but u couldn't always hear him except on top, had a big hole in his voice, sang 'flarp' (his discription of it) where you couldn't tell what pitch he was on

[izar1234]

operacaster: I heard him live. Many times. Milnes had a thrilling and big top, but his voice was always hit and miss pitch wise around middle C. And he always approached his passagio (E-flat above middle C) with an over hook sound that made any vowel sound like a combination of three different vowels. I agree with you that his pitch was problematic, especially even after age 35. By contrast, I also heard Capp many times live and his voice was superior in every way. A true Verdian voice.

[lpvcrcd]

He was by all accounts "King of All Who sing Flat"

[operadirector2009]

Peter Davis - opera news said. "When the final word is pronounced on Sherrill Milnes, if general agreement can ever be reached on any opera singer, it's unlikely that his rather narrow art and self-regarding vocalism will qualify him for inclusion among the greatest artists of the last century. And the devil-may-care, sock-it-to-them style in which he reveled, and which surely contributed to his vocal problems, serves as a dangerous model for young singers today."

[operadirector2009]

And the attacks on Joe Shore, a great singer, were horribly barbaric. I worked with Joe in many productions. In one I told him, "Take Milnes. He has this big voice but not much color. In my opinion you (meaning Shore) have both." Joe Shore was the most talented singer I saw come through OPera America in many years.

[Labienus]

So what's the point here? That Joe Shore had as important a career as Milnes? It just seems a gratuitous knock on Milnes, and a forced bolstering of-let's be honest-not a particularly well know favorite.

Maybe if Joe hadn't spent as much time singing opera as in Hines' dubious celebration of fudamentalist Christianity-I am the Way-we'd all know more about him.

[ninasim1]

@operadirector2009 Why do you bring up Joe Shore? How is he relevant here? He may have been talented, but there are many talented D-list, regional opera singers! Without his endless self-promotion on YT and the five or six devotees (such as yourself) he would never be mentioned. Also, he has horrible comments directed towards him because he invites them with his egocentric and offensive manner. There are greater singers who have been robbed of a career than Joe Shore.

[Labienus]

This is exactly what I mean below. Here some one takes the time to type out a negative opinion of Milnes for no apparent reason.

You can always find "professional" remarks out there to serve a viewpt.

A more honest appraisal of Milnes-some criticism, but over all full of praise and admiration is to be found in Steane's Grand Tradition where he devotes a generous 3 1/2 pages to him. I don't know about great artists of the century! but one of its distinquished baritones

[Pombo747]

I get a kick out of this Shore versus Milnes argument. It's really very simple: Shore was a shouter, Milnes was a singer. I think their careers kind of bear this out, don't you?

[lukebrainard2006]

You are either foolish or really naive to believe that careers mirror talent. As I have just said, Everyone who knows anything about the opera business knows that talent does not always equal career. There are some people with great talent who have small careers or none at all, and some singers have poor talent and manage to make a career. The future of opera depends on honesty of ears, not hero worship or career coveting.

[jdoranger]

"It's really very simple." Some people--like you--are threatened by the idea that someone can be very talented and NOT have a huge career. It offends your religion of hero worship. Most all of the major critics praised Shore for his singing--not his shouting. Critics can be wrong, but can ALL of them be wrong? Not likely.

[Pombo747]

Ohhh, looks like I touched a nerve, didn't I? Shore was a solid, somewhat thick voiced, rather shouty pro-grade Baritone. Nothing more, nothing less. As to the critics, I have only your word for his many successes with them. Besides, if that's the standard here then London, Prey, Milnes, and a host of other baritones put Mr. Shore in his proper historical perspective, don't they? And as for hero worship, well, if you've nothing better to prop up your slander with, then slander not.

[jdoranger]

You are a mean spirited little fellow. If you did your research you could see what the critics said about Shore. Many of the best reviews are printed on his web site. As to historical perspective, Mr. Shore's colleague, Jerome Hines, did that, along with the other critics. It's fine to have different opinions about singers. What caused me to comment on you was your mean-spirited-ness. You can believe Gobbi was the greatest baritone if you want to. Who cares? But you don't have to be so hot.

[lukebrainard2006]

Pombo747 you are making a stupid argument. Jerome Hines said this about Shore:

"I have had the good fortune to both employ and sing with Joseph Shore over a period of many years. I have always been a sincere admirer of his beautiful voice and obviously superior grasp of vocal technique... Joseph Shore is a world-class singer who really knows what he is doing."

Jerome Hines, The Metropolitan Opera

Maybe Hines was wrong and you are right...but I doubt it.

[lukebrainard2006]

And oh yes, Jerome Hines dedicated his book, The Four Voices of Man to Shore:

"To Joseph Shore, who gave me a better understanding of the male's high voice."

Jerome Hines, The Four Voices of Man, (Acknowledgments, p.xi) But hey, it was just Jerome Hines. I suppose he was just a "thick voiced" pro-grade bass. Right?

[pianoandpipes]

Say what you will about Levine, but he gets great things out of an orchestra...and always brings everybody together.

[izar1234]

Best version on Youtube? Did they remove the versions by Warren, Bastiannini, Cappuccilli, Shore, Sereni and Herlea?

[sandrup]

Why is shore on your list?

[izar1234]

Have you heard his version? If not, go listen. If you have and don't think he deserves to be on the list, not much else to say.

[sandrup]

I have. But in the ocean of opera the others you listed were tsunamis whereas Shore was more of a ripple.

[izar1234]

Well, some tsunamis must have damaged your ears if you think he's not up to snuff. It's not always the biggest stones that make the biggest splash in the opera world. Milnes' voice is not remotely close in sonority and true baritone sound compared with Shore's. But, to each her own!

[sandrup]

HAHA. Oh gee thats really funny. Do you write your own material? "To each her own!" I think I get it. You've taken the everyday platitude "to each their own" and changed it to insult me and call me a girl. Gosh you're so clever. I knew it took a lot of cunning to think that Shore is better than Milnes.

[izar1234]

Well, sorry if I thought you were a girl. No insult meant by that. If you can't hear that Shore had a better operatic baritone voice than Milnes, no big deal.

[lukebrainard2006]

You are confusing career with talent. Shore's career was small but his talent was huge. And he was no shouter. Everyone who knows anything about the opera business knows that talent does not always equal career. There are some people with great talent who have small careers or none at all, and some singers have poor talent and manage to make a career. The future of opera depends on honesty of ears, not hero worship or career coveting.

[edgrow]

Milnes is a force of nature, an inspiration to us all! My favorite part is Levine singing along during the cabaletta...you can tell he's really into it.

[baritoneforyears]

yes this is the best version on youtube. only because it's in recital and not live action, but still vocally and dramatically definitive.

[GomaMan]

He was not having vocal problems at this time. One of his vocal cords had bled under a fold in the tissue and the first surgery he had on it made it somewhat worse. It shortened his career. Laater, he found a better doctor and the difficulty was cured, but by then he had lost his place on the schedules of the great houses and the Met treated him extremely shabbily.

[matiasquiroz80]

EL MEJOR DE TODOS LOS TIEMPOS

[courtneybaritone01]

the cabaletta alone makes me want to just jump up and down and throw confetti!

[pianoandpipes]

I love it! I want to throw confetti too!

[annalbin]

Well, I went back and read all the other comments. I was a French horn player, so what the hell do I know. LOL. Whatever he was lacking in vocal technique and production, he was sure making up in other areas (such as musicianship, acting, personality, stage presence, and good looks - OK, yes, there, I've said it!). He was commercially successful, and, yes, I am a totally biased fan. I did enjoy all of the posts, however.

[annalbin]

Thanks for posting this. I was lucky enough to have taped this performance when it was first broadcast. Listening to his performance still gives me goosebumps. I thought the whole performance was great (with Placido) and wonder why it was never commercially released. Like one of the posters below, I read Milnes autobiography and know that he was have serious vocal problems during this time, but I can't hear it. Seems like a brave performance to me.

[baritonoguapo]

Hey, why don't we take all of this vehemence over to an Andrea Bocelli video and start a real riot?

[stevevandien]

We should remember that Milnes was in the middle of his self-described "decade of panic" over a recurring vocal crisis when he gave this performance. Therefore, I'm willing to cut him some slack. I should add that I heard Milnes live for the only time two years later at Lyric Opera of Chicago as Iago, and though the voice sounded a little gritty at times, its sheer size and power were startling --

[bdbaritone]

Come on people, Milnes, Warren, Nucci, Hampson and all the other new singers were (and are) great in their own way. Let's just enjoy hearing these great singers. Thanks for all the people who posted these vids.

[trem0lo]

As someone who has coached with Milnes and heard him sing up close, I can definitely say he was a baritone and a damn good one. A tenor? Come on. He got into vocal trouble because he started scooping notes, not because he always sang with a "faulty technique." It was a large, healthily produced beautiful voice in its prime.

I should also mention he doesn't have the "dirty" color that a lot of baritones have. To me, that distinguishes a great voice from a star voice.

[chessmann]

People should also be slower offensively, as well.

[maestroshore]

It appears that I am not being permitted to comment, but I'll try again. I would like one more time to try to clarify this tempest in a teapot. IAM SORRY I USED THE WORD 'FAKE' IN MY critique. I meant only to point out--as others have done--certain techniques--like breath mixtures, false weight--that most voice teachers consider "false" ways to deal with technique. Milnes used these. I agree Milnes deserved his fame.

[lukebrainard2006]

That should end this bickering. People either agree with you or they don't, but your opinion is certainly shared by many. A lot of people react viscerally when their hero is criticized. They don't see it as analytical. People should be slower to attack defensively but that is the way people are.

[hightenor123]

Personally I am kind of happy that there are a few people left who care about Opera enough to bicker about the technique of great singers.

[chessmann]

Ooops, I meant to say, "...some of the posts" instead of "the last 2 posts."

[chessmann]

The lack of maturity of sherrillfester, among others, is pretty sad. Milnes was the leading baritone in the world for a number of years for a reason. I'm sure no one was sadder at the vocal decline than Milnes. However, criticism can be done with grace and class - something sadly lacking in the last 2 posts, as well as Shore's original (good for him for apologizing, however!)

[mikenyby]

And Sherrill, if you are reading this, sorry for the jabs.

[mikenyby]

Milnes was a great singer...once. His voice in the late 60's and early 70's was wonderful, but suffered later. Most baritones don't like him because we know how good he was and then saw the dramatic decline. If you listen to his 1967 Traviata then his 1983 Boccanegra, you'll see exactly what I mean. No doubt Milnes was an excellent actor, but the voice left much to be desired in later years. I have to agree completely with Mr. Shore on this one, and I think most baritones would do the same.

[schwanseman]

Exactly...I've been watching this stupidity. Shore is totally right that Milnes used what most of us call "fake" vocal techniques. He used a breath mixture for his mezza voce; he sang flat a lot from false weight. It is the fact the he started out in the late 60's with such great talent that makes us feel bad for him and the cause of singing.

[mikenyby]

Amen! He never really had the size or color that Warren or Merrill commanded, and he must have tried to compensate.

[jebdunnit]

What I find almost as interesting is the defensiveness of his fans. They were ready to tar and feather Shore for making a simple observation.

[sherrillfester]

You people are stupid. Shore means that MIlnes uses a lot of fake colorization techniques. It passes a lot of air out for piano. He puts false weight in the voice and sings flat. All because he was really a tenor taking it easy singing baritone. Most of you people are "wannabes" and you worship FAME. You play this little game of pretending you are your favorites in your fantasies. Woe betides the musician who comes along and pokes holes in your little game. Grow up.

[blakemooney]

The giants of science, literature and music held fast to one belief: the relentless search for the truth. Singing has unwritten laws inherent in sound production. When one spends a lifetime relentlessly studying these musical and vocal laws it's only natural and expected that they will criticize themselves and all others. Joseph Shore is no more critical of Milnes than himself. Let's not become confused: the "search for truth" and not the personality is the issue.

[maestroshore]

Dare I squeak back in and say "Amen."

[orestis23]

come on, lets stop this, enjoy what you want to enjoy and leave things be.

[jebdunnit]

jebdunnit

Shame on you Agorante. You don't know what Mr. Shore achieved, He achieved a tremendous amount--look at his CV. Does yours look that way? He achieved all that while having three open heart surgeries for a congenital heart disease he was not supposed to last until adulthood. He withdrew from singing only after his second open heart surgery. Judge not lest you be judged. Mr. Shore just made on little sentence about Milnes technique and you guys were ready to kill him. SHAME on you

[sherrillfester]

It looks from these comments that the tide is turning against you "Agorante." People are sensing the truth....oooh, must be a scary feeling for you!!

[jebdunnit]

Mr. Shore made a public apology on his channel for hurting your feelings. He does have a right to his opinion and as long as he doesn't say anything here he wouldn't say to Milnes personally, I don't see a problem. I see a bunch of Milnes fans pissed that somebody didn't like their guy and they are willing to tar and feather a good man because of it.

[jebdunnit]

Mr. Shore made a public apology on his channel for hurting your feelings. He does have a right to his opinion and as long as he doesn't say anything here he wouldn't say to Milnes personally, I don't see a problem. I see a bunch of Milnes fans pissed that somebody didn't like their guy and they are willing to tar and feather a good man because of it.

[Agorante]

Joeseph Shore for shame! Milnes had a big, big career. Opening nights, recordings, TV, concerts - everything. You have only had a career on YouTube. You have a hell of a set of pipes but your remarks sound like nothing so much as sour grapes. What the hell is wrong with you that with all your gifts you achieved so little? Maybe with these comments of yours I'm beginning to see an answer.

[jebdunnit]

Shame on you Agorante. You don't know what Mr. Shore achieved, He achieved a tremendous amount--look at his CV. Does yours look that way? He achieved all that while having three open heart surgeries for a congenital heart disease he was not supposed to last until adulthood. He withdrew from singing only after his second open heart surgery. Judge not lest you be judged. Mr. Shore just made on little sentence about Milnes technique and you guys were ready to kill him. SHAME on you.

[jamesfirst]

So sorry to read all these comments about the lack of legato, rhythm problems etc... or the superiority of a singer on another. The apparent knowledge on the art of singing should make us measure the severity of our opinions. We should avoid to speak like people watching a football match on TV and criticizing methodically all the mistakes made by the players or the decisions of the referee. Freedom of speech is important but don't forget we talk about skifull singers not students.

[chianti95]

I attended this concert in 1983, and believe me, Milnes was no fake singer! Along w/ Domingo's aria from Andrea Chenier, this received the most exciting and dramatic audience response. He was back, singing very well,and it was a magical night. This particular night at the Met is the one I will always cherish because he was able to come back from the brink and give us such a special, heartfelt, one might even say triumphant performance.

[annalbin]

LUCKY LUCKY YOU!!! I would have given anything to have heard this performance in person.

[hightenor123]

Mr. Shore, I think you are wrong. I know how amazing your voice is, Sherill Milnes is an ELECTRIFYING singer. And the voice, although pushed after his vocal surgeries, is TRUE Chiaroscuro. Thus the resonance, and the fullness. He THRILLS audiences, not fake audiences, or mis-informed audiences... but the most exacting around the world.

[lightbarytone]

Great Milnes, even after the nodules... If Milnes is a fake siger, what about Putilin, Chernov, Hvorostovsky, (all the russians Met recent Companies), Pons... At least Milnes had a great personality, an enormous voice, and as I wrote elsewhere the only flat notes are in the transitional zone, not in the high register... And moreover he has STAMINA: the cabaletta is exciting!!!!

[BorisGodunov]

If two responses show up, it's because it was failing to show the first registered...

[BorisGodunov]

For a "fake singer," he sure had a mighty successful career. I guess it's just a huge fluke this "fake singer" is one of the most popular baritones in opera history. Really, such comments are unbecoming.

[maestroshore]

Unbecoming to what? To honesty? You would obviously be surprised to know the number of professional singers who agree with me...and the number of critics.

[BorisGodunov]

How about unbecoming of one who claims to be a professional colleague of Mr. Milnes? I am well aware of the criticism of his technique--nobody attuned to opera isn't. Some of it is valid, some not. However, since I have been acquainted with Mr. Milnes personally, I can say he'd NEVER be as crass as to slag off a colleague on a public forum such as this. It reeks of professional jealousy and extremely bad taste.

[maestroshore]

I am retired from the stage now and am mostly a critic. For something like Youtube I don't feel like I need to pull any punches. Especially when there are so many able bodies there to protect singers from me! Milnes got just as bad review from Peter G Davis after his departure from the Met. Davis critiqued his whole career and called it a major disappointment.

[BorisGodunov]

One can find bad reviews of any singer. Not every singer suits everyone's taste. I read your web site, and saw you use Milnes' name in your list of great singers with whom you've performed. How rich. As for his career being a disappointment: he sang at the Met for 30 years and is featured on dozens of recordings with other first-rate opera singers. He's now easily the most famous living American baritone. If that's a disappointing career, would that make yours disastrous?

[hightenor123]

Your mentor, Jerome Hines chose to interview Milnes for his book, Great Singers on Great Singing, surely Hines heard something in the voice? Does an embarrasing vocal decline, make his thrilling presence fake?

[orestis23]

i think it's safe to say that the critic's reviews do not always accurately represent a singer, and to base your decision to like or dislike a performance or singer based on a critic's review would be nonsense. Especially with the lack of knowledge about good singing that seems to plague audiences.

[maestroshore]

I know you are a Milnes fan so I probably shouldn't even make a comment...No bottom. Most tones in the upper chest are flat. The tone is snarly not chiaroscuro. A lot of false color in the voice. A fake singer!

[robertwbecker]

I totally agree with you! Not to mention that hook or cover or whatever you want to call what he did crossing over the eflat passagio into the upper register. He was very good in the 60's when he was still thinking and singing like a lyric baritone. But then all of the attributes you mentioned began.

[Vivalatosca]

BEAUTIFUL!!!!

I love his rendtion of the aria!

And that cabaletta just rocks.