on my mac, flash only seems to crash on safari. i use firefox and chrome. it still does heat up, thats just the nature of flash, but it doesn't crash on my mac unless i'm using safari.
Flash ActionScript was influences by JavaScript and the ECMA-262 (Third Edition) standard, and to quote Steve Jobs "Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. " "If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?" Flash is based on JavaScript . This means Flash ActionScript is more modern technology.
I tend to agree, all the best FOSS projects usually have either some formal organization behind them or a corporate sponsorship of some kind.
As much as I love it philosophically, many of the products end up as bundles of hacks, over-engineered monstrosities, or just get dropped because the developer decided that they might need food at some point.
Not sure why I didn't get this video in my subscription box. I'll have to watch it when my MBP comes back from hospital after a very large accidental spillage of soy sauce on the trackpad and keyboard :-(
@20:00 that's exactly what GNOME 3 is doing. They redesigned the desktop so that the computer does what it needs to do and gets out of the way for you. I do believe that they are going the right direction, but I would still want a bit more power for myself.
Flash is nice for being so cross-platform, but HTML should have a standard that's just as powerful in my opinion. A single open standard available by default on every browser on every device - that's what it should be. Until then, Flash needs to stick around in my opinion. Java is also good for things like simulations and stuff.
@wellivea1 The kernel is Linux, the stuff on top is Java. They're currently being sued over it by Oracle (who now own Java) for using bits they shouldn't have.
Java was originally licensed under GPL.. But Oracle changed their license... Android uses java correct, but Oracle is being ignorant... They say it uses patented functions.. We will see who is right..
@hal970fx To be fair, most FOSS isn't all that great, at least from a design and UI perspective. Functionality wise a lot of it is brilliant, but you can tell it was made by developers and not designers when it comes to the UI.
Steve was wrong in many more cases. he said: Audio Players are only Software“ thats why their ipod/iphones look pretty now and sound like shit. In Earlyer times we hat Portable CD/MD Players which sounded great like Hifi.
i think flash is buggy and resource hungry compared to other counter parts but my main gripe with apple denying it was the fact that they make a fully functional internet device and a lot of websites etc use it. how can you say you cant use something when a good amount of people do?
Agree Jobs is wrong about Flash. it should never be what Apple wants, but what their customers want and they do want it. If they don't want to use flash, fine... they can uninstall it or turn it off. Having that option is better than not having it. If the slogan is "It just works" then it should, not just what Apple says how it should work.
On Safari from rare time to time flash will stop working but system is not crashing nor heating up or fan's spinning up. For me it's been pretty much fine.
@bullboykennels For me, flash runs horribly in safari but fine in chrome and firefox. Of course, I'm using the leopard version of safari, not the snow leopard or lion releases.
The problem with Application driven web browsing (not plugins or built in) is that applications take up more space, ontop of the browsers (likely smaller then most care about) and can corrupted, rather then just a single built in unit or a designed plugin (for the browser) can run more streamlined, assuming the system has proper power and compatibility with the browser (and plugins)
@Kerns0Phoegon Running on the browser rather than relying on something that may not be installed on top of it is a better result for us all. It means we don't have to cede reliance to any one company (like in the case of Flash. If something breaks, it's up to Adobe to fix it, nobody else can do it without getting sued). We're in a transitional phase. Flash was a solution to a problem back in the day when standards weren't homogenous across browsers, but that's far less of an issue now.
I agree, but I'm just stating that you can't have the standards without agreements of the users and devs. Though with all respect, flash needs more regulation as it is a semi-formal program and the minial and recomended specs for windows, linux, macs should be shown and easy to find BEFORE downloading. It needs to stop being treated as if it's just part of the browser, it's not (not fully anywho) and it has it's own requirements and bugs. (like any program)
@Kerns0Phoegon I agree, to a point, but Flash just runs like ass because it's so poorly coded. My 2.66GHz Core i7 MacBook Pro ramps up to 70+ degrees C playing Flash content at times. It's ridiculous. It pushes the CPU harder playing a 480p YouTube video in Flash that playing full HD content being pushed to my 24" monitor in QuickTime or iTunes (well, still technically QuickTime I guess lol). It gets as hot on Flash sites as It does rendering video! It needs a rewrite, badly.
@TalesOfWar Yes that's partly flash... but mostly your system.
You are on the LOW to MID side of it, and the Macbooks i7's aren't really optimized (very sad honestly)... and you may need to avoid HD content, because it DOES require more power then SD, or Crappy Def. (240p)
I aggree flash should work, but YT is HTML 5 now, and/or shifting there now. It's your system my friend, and I'm willing to bet you have the latest MacOS don't you.
@Kerns0Phoegon I see Flash choke 12 core Mac Pro's with dual 2.93GHz Xeons running 16GB of RAM. It's not the system, it's Flash. Trust me. It uses FAR too much power than it should. How the hell does the same machine (my MacBook Pro) output full HD BluRay quality video to my 24" UltraSharp via Mini DisplayPort playing through QuickTime without big spikes in CPU usage and heat generation, run so hot while playing SD shit on YouTube in Flash? The issue doesn't exist when I play the HTML5 version.
Flash was designed for windows, x86 environment first, and Mac is a different take on that. Flash and Quicktime tend to fight each other, and anyone who knows much about Mac OS, knows that Quicktime, or a version of it, as part of it's OS to enable some of the 'unique' features withing it's 'finder windows'.
Sadly it's partly the design of the Mac OS that causes some conflicts which if not corrected can cause issues.
I'm sorry to tell you, flash worked perfectly on my windows, and linux Os' to include beta versions x64 & x86.
I've not had a linux issue with anything (except steam, but *shrugs*)
I feel bad for you. Yes Flash needs tightening up, but it's not bad for any of my OS's (I run windows and linux, and the odd moments unix, but I don't do multi media there)
I would suggest, that you drop your bais, it's making you look bad.
@Kerns0Phoegon The platform does not optimize itself to third-party plugins, the third party plugin's developer optimizes for the platform. Adobe has a long history of throwing Apple under the bus the second it is convenient. I don't blame Apple for not inviting Flash to the iOS party.
True, though I say Mac OS is optimized for QuickTime and Itunes because it's because it's done by the same company (apple) and the OS is more open and designed around them, and they are optimized for Mac OS.
@adobePC It's lazy coding on Adobe's end. Simple as that. If Microsoft can manage to do a good job with Silverlight and even include full hardware GPU acceleration more than a year before Adobe can, using the exposed API's Apple created and documented years previously, why couldn't Adobe? Why did they have to wait until Apple created and exposed some more API's JUST for them to shut them up and remove any excuse they had for being too lazy to use them? And it still sucks on OSX. Adobe are LAZY.
Silverlight and Flash are different. Just live AVCHD and Flash are different. Flash technology is an infrastructer that rocks with Flash Designer and Flash Catalyst. Mrbit is hinting at all the mega cool things Flash technology has to offer but HTML is getting much better. I think Flash and HTML both will have a future.
@adobePC Silverlight is an entire development platform, like Flash, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Silverlight plugin is written FAR better than the Flash plugin. When Microsoft out codes you, something is wrong.
I think at this point in time you can do more with Flash although I am not 100% sure about that. I know MS has their Expression Suit of software and the replacement for Frontpage (Web Expressions) looks like Dreamweaver. Does Silverlight have all the capabilites of Flash Action Script 3.0?
@MrDemilord From a technical standpoint, the Silverlight plug-in is coded WAY better than Flash is. They also seem to have a cohesive strategy for it whereas Flash just kind of is. They didn't even make it to begin with so it's been treated like the ugly step-child they have to support in their new marriage. The Flash Player is a mess.
@TalesOfWar Well it could be better then flash I dont doubt about that, but from what Ive read Microsoft stops with Silverlight next year, and concentrates on HTML5
People in the comments, some of you do not make any sense. I'll explain, if flash is so wonderful for phones then why is adobe favouring HTML5 for mobile? Lol even adobe left you..
i love your videos man, your not like other youtubers who are fanboys. you dont side with apple all of the time!!! i see no problems with flash, in my eepad transformer it runs smoothly. people that say flash is laggy on android devices use crappy low spec devices. i find that the same as people with iphone 3gs that find ios 5 laggy
So if someone sides with Apple on this one, that person is an Apple fanboy? Does that mean you are an Adobe fanboy? Or everybody else that likes Flash for that matter...
@rhtrv1 Adobe have made more of an effort to make it run better on Android because that's where the focus of it is. They seem to have issues with Apple, and it's entirely political, not technical. The quality of their software for the Mac has been going down over the years since they bought Macromedia. The lack of real competition (as they bought their only true competitor) has resulted in them getting lazy and resting on their laurels. I use their stuff to make my living but it annoys me no end
@TalesOfWar That's too bad because I like silverlight and (most definitely) Unity, way more than Flash.
Flash is useless to me for the fact that I just want to get my content don't care if it is HTML5 or an app. Flash used to be one of the only ways to reliably get that content, but there are other technologies that have outstripped it five years ago in terms of capability and it is getting to the point that middleware webplayer platforms like Flash, won't be needed at all to get media content.
Your lack of crashing or fan spin up is likely reduced in effect because you run a Mac Pro. The crashing isn't as bad as it used to be, nor is the heat generation, but only because they've HAD to improve the shitty plugin, but it still rinses your CPU cycles compared to what it should do. This is worse when running something like a MacBook Pro, seeing as it's not got two monstrous heatsinks and fans cooling the CPUs and so on like the Mac Pro.
@TalesOfWar my sons G4 Imac, my wife has an 06 iMac & has all kinds of flash cards & fun stuff her friends send her. My sons g4 while old, i expect it to be slower... lol
Expecting to be slower is one thing, but the ratio of degeneration for the difference in hardware specs suggests that there is some bad issues(beyond hardware power) for mac and flash, with the lower end hardware. (which is a major issue of the mac)
For most macs yes. Though it can always be stated there is variables for hardware (going from bad, to average, to great for what it was designed), but yes I do mean the lower power system vs. your more powerful mac pro. understanding the upper limit of performance for over powered systems specs.
@mrbit10 Desktops are a little different, the cooling is better than laptops (for obvious reasons lol). My point was that Flash uses a lot more CPU power than it really should because it's so poorly coded. They should have gone almost entirely GPU accelerated years ago and use the CPU as a fallback. It's gotten better, but only because Apple made a fuss about it, but it still sucks on the Mac compared to Windows, and let's not start on the Linux version haha.
@mrbit10 Fair enough. I've never really been against Flash itself, more the player. It's terrible, but the platform itself is great, you can do damn near anything with it. My MAIN gripe with it is something you touched on but didn't quite flesh out. Only Adobe have any control over it. It comes down to them to support it, and if they don't want to, then it'll remain as such. With HTML5, even if it's not made to replace it outright, it's an open standard controlled and changed by many, not one.
The problem with standards is, to get standards, you need to have an agreement how to go about it. "all in one", "Basic browser + plugins", "Browser + additional applications" each has their own ups and downs, but honestly my feelings on applications is ... stand offish, because the chance of 'charging' for applications is to real, and something that alot of people won't like happening and, the app store isn't helping matters.
@Kerns0Phoegon This whole entitled "everything should be free" argument is stupid. If you make something and wish to charge for it, it's your right to do so, and the users right to pay or not. Would you work for free? The alternative is that everything is laced with ads, which people seem to hate even more. Developing apps, websites and just generally anything costs, even if it's just time, and surely it's fair that if people wish to be compensated for their efforts they should be? Right?
The problem with your statement is that, for 'portal' type programs, like flash, web browsers, app stores, and other things that allow you to access other content not created by that author is, that if you charge for that 'portal' program your charging people to access other stuff that you have to pay for, which is entirely wrong and has a negative effect on the content created by the others,because you've already started to drain from the user before they get to even browse them.
@Kerns0Phoegon The "portal" will never be free. You're always going to have to buy a computer or a smartphone or a tablet or whatever to use it. Beyond that initial investment though it's the content itself you're potentially paying for, ignoring things like the power to allow it's use and internet access of course. Unless we manage to enter an enlightened era like Star Trek where money and material wealth are a thing of the past, we're always going to pay in some way or another.
and ISP, You are buying the 'bandwidth access' and it is not a portal, because of the lack of centerlized management since most ISP do NOT direct you to other people, it just lets you have access to what you can find.
I never said everything should be free, but I'll be one of the first to shun portal programs, System tools (created by the OS company), Gaming portals (that take you to flash sites, where the game can be found legitly for free elsewhere) that charge you for it. That is pure greed, and a major part of what is wrong.
I support buying your games, movies, songs, computer programs, and 'stuff' from developers, but not paying a portal for that privilege.
@mrbit10 I've seen PowerMac G5's brought to their knees on CPU usage running Flash (granted, older versions of it, they've improved somewhat since). Kind of takes the piss when Flash is using more CPU cycles than rendering out full HD video content. I see similar (though not as extreme) situations on Intel Macs too, again, older versions, but still the issue persists to a lesser degree (no pun intended lol).
Yes more demanding users means more demand on battery power. I have two mac's and no real problems. Don't care about iPhone as it lacks any real power. If a smart phone can't show a website flash or other wise then the sensible thing for a consumer to do is buy else where. i use android mobile now and love it. It will soon become the mobile users choice. Apple fool around to get more battery but who are they pleasing? Apple share holders!
Mrbit you are a legend, I don't think I've ever disagreed about anything you've said. Thanks for being the voice of reason on topics like this!
When I had a Mac, Flash *never* crashed, even when using beta builds like the early GPU accelerated release (Gala I think).
People, especially in the Apple community, hang on Apple's every word. When Jobs says "Flash sucks!" they latch on to it, don't actually develop their own opinion from personal experience, just blindly go with it.
Security issues. Bullcrap. I remember reading about Quicktime having more security holes than Flash a few months back, are you all going to uninstall it because of that? It's silly, a terrible excuse. Browsers have security holes, everything does.
@Aaronage1 More holes doesn't equal seriousness. Flash has (or had) some pretty big gaping holes in it, like Acrobat does. They're always telling people to turn off Java and stuff with Acrobat when they find yet another gaping hole in their shitty code. Adobe have always had crap security, their code is about as legacy as you can get, I'd say worse than Microsoft in some respects.
@Aaronage1 Battery life? Maybe. But even HTML5 animations are going to consume copious amounts of CPU time, so I don't understand that argument. Video isn't even worth mentioning, Flash supports video acceleration through GPU acceleration of fixed function hardware just like a native video player.
Oh and apparently being proprietary makes it bad. Hah, I'd love to live in a perfect world where open standards rule, but it's just not gonna happen. Open standards develop slooowly, look at HTML5
@Aaronage1 Flash only recently got GPU acceleration, despite being told for years by Apple to do this. They only bothered to do this after the whole "iPad doesn't use Flash!" war Adobe started when Apple announced it. They had literally YEARS to create something better. The reason iOS is so smooth is because the whole UI is GPU accelerated. Flash can be that way too, it doesn't really need that much CPU time for what it actually is, it's just Adobe's poor code and feet dragging.
It's not all about performance. It's about battery life as-well. Also security. And openeness. And if Apple thinks that with HTML 5 they can achieve all of those things - I'm all for it.
on my mac, flash only seems to crash on safari. i use firefox and chrome. it still does heat up, thats just the nature of flash, but it doesn't crash on my mac unless i'm using safari.
OriginalZero 2 days ago
Apps will never die - Team America 'f yea'
ReadWriteAccess 1 month ago
Windows, Linus, it just works.
ReadWriteAccess 1 month ago
Flash never has crashed me too ... Ubuntu, Fedora, no problem Flash works
ReadWriteAccess 1 month ago
Flash is available for Smart Phone Operating Systems and that is a good thing.
ReadWriteAccess 1 month ago
I watched this video on safari and firefox, with activity monitor on, and it did run more efficiently in firefox.
lamppshade09 1 month ago
Adobe Fucker over steve so he returned the favour. Shimples!
Gowlar 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Flash ActionScript was influences by JavaScript and the ECMA-262 (Third Edition) standard, and to quote Steve Jobs "Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. " "If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?" Flash is based on JavaScript . This means Flash ActionScript is more modern technology.
maw88ify 2 months ago
@mrbit10
I tend to agree, all the best FOSS projects usually have either some formal organization behind them or a corporate sponsorship of some kind.
As much as I love it philosophically, many of the products end up as bundles of hacks, over-engineered monstrosities, or just get dropped because the developer decided that they might need food at some point.
hal970fx 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
BUTTHURT!
tincho81 3 months ago
Not sure why I didn't get this video in my subscription box. I'll have to watch it when my MBP comes back from hospital after a very large accidental spillage of soy sauce on the trackpad and keyboard :-(
Westsound191 3 months ago
Great video as always, just finished watching.
FearedBliss 3 months ago
@20:00 that's exactly what GNOME 3 is doing. They redesigned the desktop so that the computer does what it needs to do and gets out of the way for you. I do believe that they are going the right direction, but I would still want a bit more power for myself.
FearedBliss 3 months ago
Flash is nice for being so cross-platform, but HTML should have a standard that's just as powerful in my opinion. A single open standard available by default on every browser on every device - that's what it should be. Until then, Flash needs to stick around in my opinion. Java is also good for things like simulations and stuff.
PoliticalHell 3 months ago
I still think it's Java. write and app for Android.. you need to know java... how else does it run on so many platforms.
HolidayNova 3 months ago
@HolidayNova
You got a program for that, that simplifies it.. Android developers kit
MrDemilord 3 months ago
Android is a java based OS.. of course it will always be slower!!!
HolidayNova 3 months ago
@HolidayNova Umm no its linux
wellivea1 3 months ago
@wellivea1 The kernel is Linux, the stuff on top is Java. They're currently being sued over it by Oracle (who now own Java) for using bits they shouldn't have.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
Java was originally licensed under GPL.. But Oracle changed their license... Android uses java correct, but Oracle is being ignorant... They say it uses patented functions.. We will see who is right..
I hope you know Java was of Sun
MrDemilord 3 months ago
@MrDemilord GPL is poison in license form. It's about the most restrictive software license on the planet, no wonder they changed it.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
Completely agree, watched the whole video from a mobile device running Adobe flash all 20+ minutes of it.
codebean 3 months ago
@codebean
I watched it on my computer using my mobile device (phone as modem : )
4G Rocks !!!!
adobePC 3 months ago
I like flash on Windows but on Mobile devices web browsing becomes sluggish, slow and in some cases unusable.
watch?v=-zZLp1e2FiQ&feature=channel_video_title
oOADROo 3 months ago in playlist Liked
If development of Flash is so hard, maybe they should take a que from the FOSS crowd, they don't seem to have any trouble between platforms.
hal970fx 3 months ago
@hal970fx To be fair, most FOSS isn't all that great, at least from a design and UI perspective. Functionality wise a lot of it is brilliant, but you can tell it was made by developers and not designers when it comes to the UI.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar I think you should take a look at the new KDE.. how it improved
MrDemilord 3 months ago
Steve was wrong in many more cases. he said: Audio Players are only Software“ thats why their ipod/iphones look pretty now and sound like shit. In Earlyer times we hat Portable CD/MD Players which sounded great like Hifi.
linusevosonic 3 months ago
Windows Phone 7 didn't even have Flash.
thisithis 3 months ago
i think flash is buggy and resource hungry compared to other counter parts but my main gripe with apple denying it was the fact that they make a fully functional internet device and a lot of websites etc use it. how can you say you cant use something when a good amount of people do?
steven4570 3 months ago
Agree Jobs is wrong about Flash. it should never be what Apple wants, but what their customers want and they do want it. If they don't want to use flash, fine... they can uninstall it or turn it off. Having that option is better than not having it. If the slogan is "It just works" then it should, not just what Apple says how it should work.
blacksteel25 3 months ago
flash never crashed my browser nor computer. it just ramped up the cpu to max when playing videos. this happens often but not always.
gundambob646 3 months ago
On Safari from rare time to time flash will stop working but system is not crashing nor heating up or fan's spinning up. For me it's been pretty much fine.
bullboykennels 3 months ago
@bullboykennels For me, flash runs horribly in safari but fine in chrome and firefox. Of course, I'm using the leopard version of safari, not the snow leopard or lion releases.
sc0pl355 3 months ago
@sc0pl355 Yeah I'm still on SL as I have not wanted to upgrade yet to Lion at least for the moment.
bullboykennels 3 months ago
@bullboykennels Yeah, I'm waiting till I get a new Mac before updating to Lion. Leopard is just fine to me. Tho, I may upgrade to SL.
sc0pl355 3 months ago
looking forward for your windows 8 video
AtomicAutopsy 3 months ago
The problem with Application driven web browsing (not plugins or built in) is that applications take up more space, ontop of the browsers (likely smaller then most care about) and can corrupted, rather then just a single built in unit or a designed plugin (for the browser) can run more streamlined, assuming the system has proper power and compatibility with the browser (and plugins)
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon Running on the browser rather than relying on something that may not be installed on top of it is a better result for us all. It means we don't have to cede reliance to any one company (like in the case of Flash. If something breaks, it's up to Adobe to fix it, nobody else can do it without getting sued). We're in a transitional phase. Flash was a solution to a problem back in the day when standards weren't homogenous across browsers, but that's far less of an issue now.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
I agree, but I'm just stating that you can't have the standards without agreements of the users and devs. Though with all respect, flash needs more regulation as it is a semi-formal program and the minial and recomended specs for windows, linux, macs should be shown and easy to find BEFORE downloading. It needs to stop being treated as if it's just part of the browser, it's not (not fully anywho) and it has it's own requirements and bugs. (like any program)
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon I agree, to a point, but Flash just runs like ass because it's so poorly coded. My 2.66GHz Core i7 MacBook Pro ramps up to 70+ degrees C playing Flash content at times. It's ridiculous. It pushes the CPU harder playing a 480p YouTube video in Flash that playing full HD content being pushed to my 24" monitor in QuickTime or iTunes (well, still technically QuickTime I guess lol). It gets as hot on Flash sites as It does rendering video! It needs a rewrite, badly.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar Yes that's partly flash... but mostly your system.
You are on the LOW to MID side of it, and the Macbooks i7's aren't really optimized (very sad honestly)... and you may need to avoid HD content, because it DOES require more power then SD, or Crappy Def. (240p)
I aggree flash should work, but YT is HTML 5 now, and/or shifting there now. It's your system my friend, and I'm willing to bet you have the latest MacOS don't you.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon I see Flash choke 12 core Mac Pro's with dual 2.93GHz Xeons running 16GB of RAM. It's not the system, it's Flash. Trust me. It uses FAR too much power than it should. How the hell does the same machine (my MacBook Pro) output full HD BluRay quality video to my 24" UltraSharp via Mini DisplayPort playing through QuickTime without big spikes in CPU usage and heat generation, run so hot while playing SD shit on YouTube in Flash? The issue doesn't exist when I play the HTML5 version.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
Flash was designed for windows, x86 environment first, and Mac is a different take on that. Flash and Quicktime tend to fight each other, and anyone who knows much about Mac OS, knows that Quicktime, or a version of it, as part of it's OS to enable some of the 'unique' features withing it's 'finder windows'.
Sadly it's partly the design of the Mac OS that causes some conflicts which if not corrected can cause issues.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar MacOS is optimized for Quicktime and Itunes playback, not flash, or 3rd party media players. (though some work very nicely on a mac)
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon No... Flash just isn't optimised for anything but Windows. It gets 10 times worse on Linux than OSX. It's just Adobe being lazy.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
I'm sorry to tell you, flash worked perfectly on my windows, and linux Os' to include beta versions x64 & x86.
I've not had a linux issue with anything (except steam, but *shrugs*)
I feel bad for you. Yes Flash needs tightening up, but it's not bad for any of my OS's (I run windows and linux, and the odd moments unix, but I don't do multi media there)
I would suggest, that you drop your bais, it's making you look bad.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon The platform does not optimize itself to third-party plugins, the third party plugin's developer optimizes for the platform. Adobe has a long history of throwing Apple under the bus the second it is convenient. I don't blame Apple for not inviting Flash to the iOS party.
sc0pl355 3 months ago
@sc0pl355
True, though I say Mac OS is optimized for QuickTime and Itunes because it's because it's done by the same company (apple) and the OS is more open and designed around them, and they are optimized for Mac OS.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon Well, I wouldn't say that OSX is 'optimized' for Quicktime. I would say that Quicktime is an integrated part of OSX.
sc0pl355 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
I think your problem is the OS and Quicktime. I have seen Flash work well on PC laptops.
adobePC 3 months ago
@adobePC It's lazy coding on Adobe's end. Simple as that. If Microsoft can manage to do a good job with Silverlight and even include full hardware GPU acceleration more than a year before Adobe can, using the exposed API's Apple created and documented years previously, why couldn't Adobe? Why did they have to wait until Apple created and exposed some more API's JUST for them to shut them up and remove any excuse they had for being too lazy to use them? And it still sucks on OSX. Adobe are LAZY.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
Silverlight and Flash are different. Just live AVCHD and Flash are different. Flash technology is an infrastructer that rocks with Flash Designer and Flash Catalyst. Mrbit is hinting at all the mega cool things Flash technology has to offer but HTML is getting much better. I think Flash and HTML both will have a future.
adobePC 3 months ago
@adobePC Silverlight is an entire development platform, like Flash, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Silverlight plugin is written FAR better than the Flash plugin. When Microsoft out codes you, something is wrong.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
I think at this point in time you can do more with Flash although I am not 100% sure about that. I know MS has their Expression Suit of software and the replacement for Frontpage (Web Expressions) looks like Dreamweaver. Does Silverlight have all the capabilites of Flash Action Script 3.0?
adobePC 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar Silverlight a good job? Did you know Microsoft stops with silverlight next year?
Silverlight is a joke
MrDemilord 3 months ago
@MrDemilord From a technical standpoint, the Silverlight plug-in is coded WAY better than Flash is. They also seem to have a cohesive strategy for it whereas Flash just kind of is. They didn't even make it to begin with so it's been treated like the ugly step-child they have to support in their new marriage. The Flash Player is a mess.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar Well it could be better then flash I dont doubt about that, but from what Ive read Microsoft stops with Silverlight next year, and concentrates on HTML5
MrDemilord 3 months ago
People in the comments, some of you do not make any sense. I'll explain, if flash is so wonderful for phones then why is adobe favouring HTML5 for mobile? Lol even adobe left you..
kevinklinkmuller 3 months ago
i love your videos man, your not like other youtubers who are fanboys. you dont side with apple all of the time!!! i see no problems with flash, in my eepad transformer it runs smoothly. people that say flash is laggy on android devices use crappy low spec devices. i find that the same as people with iphone 3gs that find ios 5 laggy
alarm991 3 months ago
@alarm991
So if someone sides with Apple on this one, that person is an Apple fanboy? Does that mean you are an Adobe fanboy? Or everybody else that likes Flash for that matter...
Gforce002 3 months ago
@Gforce002 please shut the fuck up, i dont have time for trolls...
alarm991 3 months ago
@alarm991
Who is the troll here, you are calling people that agree with Apple fanboys. Moron.
Gforce002 3 months ago
@alarm991 How is he a troll? Because he actually has a good point and you can't think of a good counter-argument?
sc0pl355 3 months ago
@sc0pl355 if you really think that your so tough. lets arrange a location and time and then we can sort this out like men
alarm991 3 months ago
@alarm991 "lets arrange a location and time and then we can sort this out like men"
Oh man, internet tough guy alert! Oooh scary. I is a-scairt! The big bad retard wants to fight me! Whatever will I do??
sc0pl355 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sc0pl355 who the fuck do you think you are?!
alarm991 3 months ago
@alarm991 The motherfuckin Sc0pl355!
Ask your mother about that.
sc0pl355 3 months ago
flash works well on my android tablet and phone. its crap on my macbook. shouldnt it be the opposite?
rhtrv1 3 months ago
@rhtrv1 Adobe have made more of an effort to make it run better on Android because that's where the focus of it is. They seem to have issues with Apple, and it's entirely political, not technical. The quality of their software for the Mac has been going down over the years since they bought Macromedia. The lack of real competition (as they bought their only true competitor) has resulted in them getting lazy and resting on their laurels. I use their stuff to make my living but it annoys me no end
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar That's too bad because I like silverlight and (most definitely) Unity, way more than Flash.
Flash is useless to me for the fact that I just want to get my content don't care if it is HTML5 or an app. Flash used to be one of the only ways to reliably get that content, but there are other technologies that have outstripped it five years ago in terms of capability and it is getting to the point that middleware webplayer platforms like Flash, won't be needed at all to get media content.
sc0pl355 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar agreed, even as an android user, i hope HTML5 becomes more popular
rhtrv1 3 months ago
Your lack of crashing or fan spin up is likely reduced in effect because you run a Mac Pro. The crashing isn't as bad as it used to be, nor is the heat generation, but only because they've HAD to improve the shitty plugin, but it still rinses your CPU cycles compared to what it should do. This is worse when running something like a MacBook Pro, seeing as it's not got two monstrous heatsinks and fans cooling the CPUs and so on like the Mac Pro.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar my sons G4 Imac, my wife has an 06 iMac & has all kinds of flash cards & fun stuff her friends send her. My sons g4 while old, i expect it to be slower... lol
mrbit10 3 months ago
@mrbit10
Expecting to be slower is one thing, but the ratio of degeneration for the difference in hardware specs suggests that there is some bad issues(beyond hardware power) for mac and flash, with the lower end hardware. (which is a major issue of the mac)
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon you mean my sons G4?
mrbit10 3 months ago
@mrbit10
For most macs yes. Though it can always be stated there is variables for hardware (going from bad, to average, to great for what it was designed), but yes I do mean the lower power system vs. your more powerful mac pro. understanding the upper limit of performance for over powered systems specs.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@mrbit10 Desktops are a little different, the cooling is better than laptops (for obvious reasons lol). My point was that Flash uses a lot more CPU power than it really should because it's so poorly coded. They should have gone almost entirely GPU accelerated years ago and use the CPU as a fallback. It's gotten better, but only because Apple made a fuss about it, but it still sucks on the Mac compared to Windows, and let's not start on the Linux version haha.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar i am not going to defend Flash as in yes it could use a lot of improvements and yes Adobe is lazy, i think i conveyed that in the video.
mrbit10 3 months ago
@mrbit10 Fair enough. I've never really been against Flash itself, more the player. It's terrible, but the platform itself is great, you can do damn near anything with it. My MAIN gripe with it is something you touched on but didn't quite flesh out. Only Adobe have any control over it. It comes down to them to support it, and if they don't want to, then it'll remain as such. With HTML5, even if it's not made to replace it outright, it's an open standard controlled and changed by many, not one.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar yea, i fought for standards way back but it is so hard to get agreement & compliance.
mrbit10 3 months ago
@mrbit10
The problem with standards is, to get standards, you need to have an agreement how to go about it. "all in one", "Basic browser + plugins", "Browser + additional applications" each has their own ups and downs, but honestly my feelings on applications is ... stand offish, because the chance of 'charging' for applications is to real, and something that alot of people won't like happening and, the app store isn't helping matters.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon This whole entitled "everything should be free" argument is stupid. If you make something and wish to charge for it, it's your right to do so, and the users right to pay or not. Would you work for free? The alternative is that everything is laced with ads, which people seem to hate even more. Developing apps, websites and just generally anything costs, even if it's just time, and surely it's fair that if people wish to be compensated for their efforts they should be? Right?
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
The problem with your statement is that, for 'portal' type programs, like flash, web browsers, app stores, and other things that allow you to access other content not created by that author is, that if you charge for that 'portal' program your charging people to access other stuff that you have to pay for, which is entirely wrong and has a negative effect on the content created by the others,because you've already started to drain from the user before they get to even browse them.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@Kerns0Phoegon The "portal" will never be free. You're always going to have to buy a computer or a smartphone or a tablet or whatever to use it. Beyond that initial investment though it's the content itself you're potentially paying for, ignoring things like the power to allow it's use and internet access of course. Unless we manage to enter an enlightened era like Star Trek where money and material wealth are a thing of the past, we're always going to pay in some way or another.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
WRong, you are buying the 'HARDWARE' and thus even though it's a portal, you get a product.
Pure portals as digital only.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
and ISP, You are buying the 'bandwidth access' and it is not a portal, because of the lack of centerlized management since most ISP do NOT direct you to other people, it just lets you have access to what you can find.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@TalesOfWar
I never said everything should be free, but I'll be one of the first to shun portal programs, System tools (created by the OS company), Gaming portals (that take you to flash sites, where the game can be found legitly for free elsewhere) that charge you for it. That is pure greed, and a major part of what is wrong.
I support buying your games, movies, songs, computer programs, and 'stuff' from developers, but not paying a portal for that privilege.
Kerns0Phoegon 3 months ago
@mrbit10 I've seen PowerMac G5's brought to their knees on CPU usage running Flash (granted, older versions of it, they've improved somewhat since). Kind of takes the piss when Flash is using more CPU cycles than rendering out full HD video content. I see similar (though not as extreme) situations on Intel Macs too, again, older versions, but still the issue persists to a lesser degree (no pun intended lol).
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
Yes more demanding users means more demand on battery power. I have two mac's and no real problems. Don't care about iPhone as it lacks any real power. If a smart phone can't show a website flash or other wise then the sensible thing for a consumer to do is buy else where. i use android mobile now and love it. It will soon become the mobile users choice. Apple fool around to get more battery but who are they pleasing? Apple share holders!
jamaic1aboy2 3 months ago
Mrbit you are a legend, I don't think I've ever disagreed about anything you've said. Thanks for being the voice of reason on topics like this!
When I had a Mac, Flash *never* crashed, even when using beta builds like the early GPU accelerated release (Gala I think).
People, especially in the Apple community, hang on Apple's every word. When Jobs says "Flash sucks!" they latch on to it, don't actually develop their own opinion from personal experience, just blindly go with it.
Aaronage1 3 months ago
@Aaronage1 What has been said about Flash?
Security issues. Bullcrap. I remember reading about Quicktime having more security holes than Flash a few months back, are you all going to uninstall it because of that? It's silly, a terrible excuse. Browsers have security holes, everything does.
Aaronage1 3 months ago
@Aaronage1 More holes doesn't equal seriousness. Flash has (or had) some pretty big gaping holes in it, like Acrobat does. They're always telling people to turn off Java and stuff with Acrobat when they find yet another gaping hole in their shitty code. Adobe have always had crap security, their code is about as legacy as you can get, I'd say worse than Microsoft in some respects.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
@Aaronage1 Battery life? Maybe. But even HTML5 animations are going to consume copious amounts of CPU time, so I don't understand that argument. Video isn't even worth mentioning, Flash supports video acceleration through GPU acceleration of fixed function hardware just like a native video player.
Oh and apparently being proprietary makes it bad. Hah, I'd love to live in a perfect world where open standards rule, but it's just not gonna happen. Open standards develop slooowly, look at HTML5
Aaronage1 3 months ago
@Aaronage1 Flash only recently got GPU acceleration, despite being told for years by Apple to do this. They only bothered to do this after the whole "iPad doesn't use Flash!" war Adobe started when Apple announced it. They had literally YEARS to create something better. The reason iOS is so smooth is because the whole UI is GPU accelerated. Flash can be that way too, it doesn't really need that much CPU time for what it actually is, it's just Adobe's poor code and feet dragging.
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
So, apple wants to use an open platform an people are bitching about it?
delonholmes92 3 months ago
@delonholmes92 Rather ironic coming from the Android crowd eh?
TalesOfWar 3 months ago
It's not all about performance. It's about battery life as-well. Also security. And openeness. And if Apple thinks that with HTML 5 they can achieve all of those things - I'm all for it.
Vikruntasas 3 months ago
@Vikruntasas Agreed. Flash needs to die.
dragonballjiujitsu 3 months ago