banks and corporations make financial decisions every day, and closing down a factory for financial reasons is quite ethical in their opinion, this leads to job loss, and general unsettling feelings for all involved. SO WHY CANT HOME OWNERS DO THE SAME. If anyone can answer me this question, please do so???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Foreclosure has been taking a tole on America as well as the rest of the world. Im here to make a difference! Millions of Americans are unemployed and if you are part of this or need some DAILY income then this is probably a good start for you! Make $20+ an hour with online marketing. No get rich quick scheme. Honest pay for honest work! If interested you can check out my webpage!
@doodgeful As time goes by, more people realize that when your house turns from an asset to a liability the impact on your personal finances runs deep. What if you have to sell because you get a job transfer of out of state or have a baby? Will you be able to write a check at the closing for the deficiency? For many people, an underwater mortgage is like kissing goodbye to their kids going to college or their retirement. When you start thinking ahead a few years, it can be scary.
I did the same thing and the bank finally gave me a loan mod, then they took it away, then gave it back. Like most people, work has precarious and I make significantly less than what I used to. I'd have no qualms about walking away from my place, Would I be a thief if I knowingly default on my mortgage? Back in the 00's, I never over-leveraged, I have no access the Fed, I never received TARP funds. I have no Authority, without authority, these is no accountability.
If the home owner walks away and bank forecloses and the home is sold to cover the loan. The sale does not cover the loan the home owner is a thief. He is just another low life christen that does not up hold the law of his belief (thou shall not steel).
Most of America feels the same way, my family just went through it. We didn't want to keep paying a high mortgage when our property is going down, so we let the house go. We will bounce back again!
Dont worry about the angry feedback, these are just ignorant elitisist, what is elitism you ask ? Elitism is the insertion of goldman sachs into your white house !!!!!!!!! f'' em right back and walk ! We did, on two properties, free yourself up to invest in something else
what you saying is no one deserves to be payed back or you can pick and chose who gets payed back with that thinking please never borrow a dime from anyone again.
Planning the same, but I am concerned about the second lender coming after us, because they probably won't see any money after the first is paid off. So then we will have to file bankruptcy on top of the foreclosure. Learned our lesson the hard way, the American dream is a joke. Life for most is too unpredictible to buy a house anymore. Looking forward to renting a house bigger, nicer, and CHEAPER than what we are in now.
@stevenbecky03 I know exactly what you mean! i want to strongly urge you to speak to an attorney as soon as possible. The are advantages to short sales that might help you avoid deficiency actions. It is still an option for a strategic default.
Until the banks are overwhelmed by defaults, the defaulting consumers will be vilified by the system and hit with judgments and hounded by debt collectors to the very edge of the solar system!!! Only when the number of defaults reaches a critical tipping point will millions of borrowers get free of the yoke of bad loans. Oh, Yeah! a few banks will have to write it off as a loss.
Klavanway, Thanks for this post. It is difficult to see thru the ruse. Although we need a habitat, we don't necessarily need to swim with an anchor!
Debit is the enemy. DON'T is the answer. Simple really. We have gone thru 3 or 4 decades of increasing debt. We thought is was this benign and faceless thing. It isn't. It is a trap our parents fell for, and so did we. It is time to stop building McMansions. 2 ppl can live with confort in 400 s.f. at $50. psf. Paid for in a year.
@pjamesbda Scaling back is a very popular concept these days - it's refreshing to get back to what is really important and the McMansion just isn't it...
@klavanway - I was touting affordable housing way before it was popular. As you say the problem is deep, and gets into status and life purpose etc. Before the crash, as an Arch. Designer I built a business on this concept. Ironic it would fail, when we need it most.
The best thing to do is to "strategically" pay down the principal. Saving a load of interest. What ever happened to people buying a house and paying the dam thing off? Instead people are playing games with the values of their homes. Not smart...
There are valid arguments for both sides regarding strategic default. The problem is deeper than most people realize. For most people, it's a business decision. Does it make sense to keep a toxic asset on the family ledger. The banks who shout about the ethics are the first to dump non-performing assets which is what a home with a high percentage of negative equity is. Often, you are talking about decades before you are breaking even. There are no easy answers here, trust me...
@klavanway The answer is very easy. Corporations do not continue to pay for underwater assets. The financial industry got a huge bailout of your money. Defaulters are not avoiding the consequences of their actions; they are suffering them. They are following their contracts to the letter. Fuck that. You don't have a moral obligation to your bank. They certainly wouldn't do it for you. Honestly.
There is nothing written stating that your home must rise in value, and what does it matter whether your home is worth one dollar or one million...if that is where you plan on living, and you don't plan on selling, then value is essentially meaningless.
Christ!!! Survivors!!! Wussies is more like it. You signed on the dotted line....where is it written that your home is supposed to rise in value. Also, the home values that are plummeting will rise, maybe not to their highest level, but high enough. People signed the docs. They made an agreement. I wonder if they'd feel so smug if someone burned them.
@janus454 we ARE being burned--that's the whole point here. i'm considering walking and i don't feel smug, i feel empowered. in order to fulfill my moral and ethical obligations, i've blown thru my retirement. meanwhile, the banks have been bailed out, corporations have been given "people status" by the supreme court, and as the lowly taxpayer under water by 120k, i've been screwed. there are no brownie points for conscientious people anymore, just more sharks to take advantage of our naivety.
@janus454 With the level of fraud that occurred in the banking/mortgage and real estate industry during the boom years, your argument just doesn't hold water.
@gwuengr2 How does it not hold water? True, there are unethical loan officers, but the stack of paper you have to sign coupled with the information found on the Internet and in books from the library...C'mon...either we're living in the information age or we're not. And these strategic defaults are NOT about fraud---they are about value of homes, but as I said again...if your home is your primary residence, then it doesnt' matter what it's worth...pay it off.
@janus454 1st of all I would ask that you not refer to these con artists (most of them) as Loan Officers. It's disrespectful to people who actually are officers.
2ndly, the main reason people are upside down on their houses is because of the fraud that took place.
You sign papers assuming most everyone is playing by the same rules...but many weren't.
If you went to vegas, played poker and lost and 5 minutes later someone told you the game was rigged, would you want your money back?
@gwuengr2 There is no fraud. Fraud is the intent to mislead. Housing values are cannot be forced up or down by loan officers. People bought houses that were already over valued. That's the risk. And, again, if you plan on living in your home for a long time and plan on paying it off, then it really doesn't matter what it's worth.
I'm upside down or under water in my own home, but I don't care. I'll pay it off in 15 years regardless of its value.
@janus454 No fraud? Are you kidding? How many people have been arrested in the last 2 years for mortgage fraud? It all started with stated income...but appraisers, realtors, mortgage brokers to name a few were complicit as well.
This most recent boom/bust was not a 'normal' cycle if that's what you happen to believe, it was engineered and fraud DEFINITELY played a role.
@gwuengr2 There is no way this could have been engineered. Was there fraud on an individual level, yes, but the borrowers were at fault, too. At closing, they had to sign a stack of paper an inch thick, and either we live in the information age or we don't. And if we live in the the info. age then people need to inform themselves. And remember, this all started about 'strategic defaults'. People who can pay but don't want to because their houses decreased in value.
Everyone needs to look at their personal finances like a business. Morgan Stanley walked away from several of their larger real estate holdings not because they couldn't pay for it but because it didn't make business sense to continue to pay for them i.e. bad investment...cut losses. Home owners need to do the same.
If you are at all feeling bad about walking away remember that Wells Fargo CEO just paid himself the largest bonus in bank history thanks to us tax payers.
I want to buy 15 minutes of a lawyer's time soon about this, but yeah the IL cycle is 210 days and that's depends on how long it takes the bank to start it. You stay in your home, save that money you'd pay for mortgages, wait until the eviction notice gets tagged to your door, find an apartment. My mortgage lender got a fat juicy stimulus and gave themselves bonuses, so this doesn't seem unethical. I only considered it once my home (although cheap anyway) dropped by another 50% in value recently
AMEN! not only should you foreclose but dont leave your home it takes years for them to finalize it and it wont ever sell. we are staying in ours for a year now and they havnt even begun to process. besides we left originally and someone broke in our vacant home. we later realized it was best to move back in so we did and have been here ever since. they still need to properly evict you when the time comes but in the mean time save your money by refusing tot leave
a home stopped becoming a "home" many years ago. once it became an atm it became a business transaction and not a "home" therefore business rules apply. if you can save $50000 over 18 months and be debt free this a tremendous incentive to strategic default. a home needs to become a home again and not a store of wealth. of you want a store of wealth open up a business and make investments outside the home. a home should never be regarded as an investment.
I've been seeing a "fresh start" mood in a lot of people so a "strategic default" would fit right into that. On the other hand, when people stop honoring their promises just because it's no longer convenient.... I find that very sad. No one forced anyone to take out a loan and there was never a promise of perpetual appreciation. What kind of society will we have if no one feels the need to honor their commitments?
banks and corporations make financial decisions every day, and closing down a factory for financial reasons is quite ethical in their opinion, this leads to job loss, and general unsettling feelings for all involved. SO WHY CANT HOME OWNERS DO THE SAME. If anyone can answer me this question, please do so???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Ianjcarroll 6 days ago
@samten10a learn how to spell & make sence before u post something offensive on a public forum...
swisshakilla 1 week ago
@swisshakilla ----- make "sence"? "U" need to take your own advice on spelling!
stefrzchicago 1 day ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Foreclosure has been taking a tole on America as well as the rest of the world. Im here to make a difference! Millions of Americans are unemployed and if you are part of this or need some DAILY income then this is probably a good start for you! Make $20+ an hour with online marketing. No get rich quick scheme. Honest pay for honest work! If interested you can check out my webpage!
dailypaymachine . com
352-989-0181
dailypaymachine 3 weeks ago
Great post! It is so true!
TheeLynnChase 1 month ago
My mindset right now is the same as your friend's.
Sassymarkrep 2 months ago
@doodgeful As time goes by, more people realize that when your house turns from an asset to a liability the impact on your personal finances runs deep. What if you have to sell because you get a job transfer of out of state or have a baby? Will you be able to write a check at the closing for the deficiency? For many people, an underwater mortgage is like kissing goodbye to their kids going to college or their retirement. When you start thinking ahead a few years, it can be scary.
klavanway 4 months ago
@ddodgeful - In the end, it is purely a business decision...
klavanway 3 weeks ago
I did the same thing and the bank finally gave me a loan mod, then they took it away, then gave it back. Like most people, work has precarious and I make significantly less than what I used to. I'd have no qualms about walking away from my place, Would I be a thief if I knowingly default on my mortgage? Back in the 00's, I never over-leveraged, I have no access the Fed, I never received TARP funds. I have no Authority, without authority, these is no accountability.
doodgeful 4 months ago
If the home owner walks away and bank forecloses and the home is sold to cover the loan. The sale does not cover the loan the home owner is a thief. He is just another low life christen that does not up hold the law of his belief (thou shall not steel).
samten10a 4 months ago
Most of America feels the same way, my family just went through it. We didn't want to keep paying a high mortgage when our property is going down, so we let the house go. We will bounce back again!
Spazjer13 5 months ago
Dont worry about the angry feedback, these are just ignorant elitisist, what is elitism you ask ? Elitism is the insertion of goldman sachs into your white house !!!!!!!!! f'' em right back and walk ! We did, on two properties, free yourself up to invest in something else
tommyg524 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is why those darn so called SHORT SALES take so long to get APPROVED. Making sure Linda Green is not Present on the documents....WOOOOWWWW
Here is the truth Banks were signing this ladies name look it up....
IgnacioStapleton 10 months ago
what you saying is no one deserves to be payed back or you can pick and chose who gets payed back with that thinking please never borrow a dime from anyone again.
TrueBlueBAC333 11 months ago
Planning the same, but I am concerned about the second lender coming after us, because they probably won't see any money after the first is paid off. So then we will have to file bankruptcy on top of the foreclosure. Learned our lesson the hard way, the American dream is a joke. Life for most is too unpredictible to buy a house anymore. Looking forward to renting a house bigger, nicer, and CHEAPER than what we are in now.
stevenbecky03 1 year ago 3
@stevenbecky03 I know exactly what you mean! i want to strongly urge you to speak to an attorney as soon as possible. The are advantages to short sales that might help you avoid deficiency actions. It is still an option for a strategic default.
klavanway 1 year ago
Until the banks are overwhelmed by defaults, the defaulting consumers will be vilified by the system and hit with judgments and hounded by debt collectors to the very edge of the solar system!!! Only when the number of defaults reaches a critical tipping point will millions of borrowers get free of the yoke of bad loans. Oh, Yeah! a few banks will have to write it off as a loss.
keivil09 1 year ago
Klavanway, Thanks for this post. It is difficult to see thru the ruse. Although we need a habitat, we don't necessarily need to swim with an anchor!
Debit is the enemy. DON'T is the answer. Simple really. We have gone thru 3 or 4 decades of increasing debt. We thought is was this benign and faceless thing. It isn't. It is a trap our parents fell for, and so did we. It is time to stop building McMansions. 2 ppl can live with confort in 400 s.f. at $50. psf. Paid for in a year.
pjamesbda 1 year ago 3
@pjamesbda Scaling back is a very popular concept these days - it's refreshing to get back to what is really important and the McMansion just isn't it...
klavanway 1 year ago
@klavanway - I was touting affordable housing way before it was popular. As you say the problem is deep, and gets into status and life purpose etc. Before the crash, as an Arch. Designer I built a business on this concept. Ironic it would fail, when we need it most.
pjamesbda 1 year ago
I just started a strategic default last month. I'm cutting my losses.
RayAir1 1 year ago
@RayAir1 Good luck to you! Hope that better days are ahead...
klavanway 1 year ago
agree 1000% im doing the same thing very soon the banks suck!
dl5373 1 year ago 2
The best thing to do is to "strategically" pay down the principal. Saving a load of interest. What ever happened to people buying a house and paying the dam thing off? Instead people are playing games with the values of their homes. Not smart...
1Henryetta 1 year ago
There are valid arguments for both sides regarding strategic default. The problem is deeper than most people realize. For most people, it's a business decision. Does it make sense to keep a toxic asset on the family ledger. The banks who shout about the ethics are the first to dump non-performing assets which is what a home with a high percentage of negative equity is. Often, you are talking about decades before you are breaking even. There are no easy answers here, trust me...
klavanway 1 year ago
@klavanway The answer is very easy. Corporations do not continue to pay for underwater assets. The financial industry got a huge bailout of your money. Defaulters are not avoiding the consequences of their actions; they are suffering them. They are following their contracts to the letter. Fuck that. You don't have a moral obligation to your bank. They certainly wouldn't do it for you. Honestly.
hymnofashes 1 year ago
Junkforkaryn,
There is nothing written stating that your home must rise in value, and what does it matter whether your home is worth one dollar or one million...if that is where you plan on living, and you don't plan on selling, then value is essentially meaningless.
janus454 1 year ago
Christ!!! Survivors!!! Wussies is more like it. You signed on the dotted line....where is it written that your home is supposed to rise in value. Also, the home values that are plummeting will rise, maybe not to their highest level, but high enough. People signed the docs. They made an agreement. I wonder if they'd feel so smug if someone burned them.
janus454 1 year ago
@janus454 we ARE being burned--that's the whole point here. i'm considering walking and i don't feel smug, i feel empowered. in order to fulfill my moral and ethical obligations, i've blown thru my retirement. meanwhile, the banks have been bailed out, corporations have been given "people status" by the supreme court, and as the lowly taxpayer under water by 120k, i've been screwed. there are no brownie points for conscientious people anymore, just more sharks to take advantage of our naivety.
junkforkaryn 1 year ago 2
@janus454 With the level of fraud that occurred in the banking/mortgage and real estate industry during the boom years, your argument just doesn't hold water.
gwuengr2 1 year ago
@gwuengr2 How does it not hold water? True, there are unethical loan officers, but the stack of paper you have to sign coupled with the information found on the Internet and in books from the library...C'mon...either we're living in the information age or we're not. And these strategic defaults are NOT about fraud---they are about value of homes, but as I said again...if your home is your primary residence, then it doesnt' matter what it's worth...pay it off.
janus454 1 year ago
@janus454 1st of all I would ask that you not refer to these con artists (most of them) as Loan Officers. It's disrespectful to people who actually are officers.
2ndly, the main reason people are upside down on their houses is because of the fraud that took place.
You sign papers assuming most everyone is playing by the same rules...but many weren't.
If you went to vegas, played poker and lost and 5 minutes later someone told you the game was rigged, would you want your money back?
gwuengr2 1 year ago
@gwuengr2 There is no fraud. Fraud is the intent to mislead. Housing values are cannot be forced up or down by loan officers. People bought houses that were already over valued. That's the risk. And, again, if you plan on living in your home for a long time and plan on paying it off, then it really doesn't matter what it's worth.
I'm upside down or under water in my own home, but I don't care. I'll pay it off in 15 years regardless of its value.
janus454 1 year ago
@janus454 No fraud? Are you kidding? How many people have been arrested in the last 2 years for mortgage fraud? It all started with stated income...but appraisers, realtors, mortgage brokers to name a few were complicit as well.
This most recent boom/bust was not a 'normal' cycle if that's what you happen to believe, it was engineered and fraud DEFINITELY played a role.
gwuengr2 1 year ago
@gwuengr2 There is no way this could have been engineered. Was there fraud on an individual level, yes, but the borrowers were at fault, too. At closing, they had to sign a stack of paper an inch thick, and either we live in the information age or we don't. And if we live in the the info. age then people need to inform themselves. And remember, this all started about 'strategic defaults'. People who can pay but don't want to because their houses decreased in value.
janus454 1 year ago
Is it really true people are actually handing there houses back to the banks ...??
Im from the UK
satansdaughters 1 year ago
@satansdaughters -
Yes---it's really true. People are doing this intentionally, because the banks screwed us all and we don't care anymore.
Anonymous1572 1 year ago
@satansdaughters -
Yes---it's really true. People are doing this intentionally, because the banks screwed us all and we don't care anymore.
Anonymous1572 1 year ago
I agree, and now Im fed up, so they can have my house back too... thanks for cheering me up...:)
taysirk 1 year ago 2
Well, Today April 4th, I will NOT be making anymore payments on my house. I am letting the bank have it back
mgalison 1 year ago
Well, Today April 4th, I will NOT be making anymore payments on my house. I am letting the bank have it back
mgalison 1 year ago
Everyone needs to look at their personal finances like a business. Morgan Stanley walked away from several of their larger real estate holdings not because they couldn't pay for it but because it didn't make business sense to continue to pay for them i.e. bad investment...cut losses. Home owners need to do the same.
If you are at all feeling bad about walking away remember that Wells Fargo CEO just paid himself the largest bonus in bank history thanks to us tax payers.
bloodlettingpress 1 year ago
I want to buy 15 minutes of a lawyer's time soon about this, but yeah the IL cycle is 210 days and that's depends on how long it takes the bank to start it. You stay in your home, save that money you'd pay for mortgages, wait until the eviction notice gets tagged to your door, find an apartment. My mortgage lender got a fat juicy stimulus and gave themselves bonuses, so this doesn't seem unethical. I only considered it once my home (although cheap anyway) dropped by another 50% in value recently
eurohim 2 years ago
AMEN! not only should you foreclose but dont leave your home it takes years for them to finalize it and it wont ever sell. we are staying in ours for a year now and they havnt even begun to process. besides we left originally and someone broke in our vacant home. we later realized it was best to move back in so we did and have been here ever since. they still need to properly evict you when the time comes but in the mean time save your money by refusing tot leave
demonhunter5110 2 years ago
a home stopped becoming a "home" many years ago. once it became an atm it became a business transaction and not a "home" therefore business rules apply. if you can save $50000 over 18 months and be debt free this a tremendous incentive to strategic default. a home needs to become a home again and not a store of wealth. of you want a store of wealth open up a business and make investments outside the home. a home should never be regarded as an investment.
mmwilson9 2 years ago
I've been seeing a "fresh start" mood in a lot of people so a "strategic default" would fit right into that. On the other hand, when people stop honoring their promises just because it's no longer convenient.... I find that very sad. No one forced anyone to take out a loan and there was never a promise of perpetual appreciation. What kind of society will we have if no one feels the need to honor their commitments?
OneCosmicGuy 2 years ago