Read tiny url 593htl . It is a link to supporters' own research. The important part to read is page 30 on, "Appendix: Households’ Well-Being under the FairTax", in which they clearly state that according to their research those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay MORE in taxes under the "Fair" Tax than now. They try and fudge around this with what they call "income mobility", however Table 13 makes it clear--that mobility is into poverty-- and they call that a positive.
The "Fair" Tax is basically class warfare,the wealthy declaring war on the middleclasses by raising their effective tax rates. It would, by Americans for Fair Taxation's own admission, raise the effective tax rate of those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year while lowering the effective rate of those making $150,000 and up a year. Source:tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on -pay particular attention to table 13, years 7-8 -- would you be "better off" if your income dropped from $25k to less than $10k?
Love it all. I don't agree that it would end the underground economy; It wouldn't "END" the underground economy (which is fine because there will always be illegal activity everywhere) HOWEVER, those who work illegally will now become part of a tax paying society and contribute to the schools that teach our kids, the roads that drive us to the there and the parks in which we play afterwards.
Fairtax is goofy crap. First of all, its a direct tax on all government PENSIONS, including military pensions. SInce when is a sales tax applied to PENSIONS??
Yes, pensions are taxed, all government wages are taxed, all city county and state wages,benefits and pensions.
And these taxes have to be paid --- IN ADVANCE!. That is just PART of the goofy shit. See footnote 19 in Fairtax document about the "advance" tax on wages and pensions.
Enacting the Fair Tax or any other national sales tax would require repealing the 16th Amendment first. That would have to be done with something never tried before. 2/3 of the state legislatures, 34 in other words, would have to request a constitutional convention to consider an amendment to repeal the 16th. Then 3/4 of the state legislatures, or 38, would have to ratify the amendment.
I'm trying to get more involved in getting the Fair Tax passed. I saw a great ad on tv about a week ago that led me to this website where I both signed and donated because they are trying to air a 30 minute national show on the Fair Tax so they can gain supporters. PassFairTax(dot)com
No dumb fuck -- Ron Paul isnt for Fairtax because he knows its pure bullshit.
It's like saying you have a magic pony that shits gold. Sure, Fairtax would work if we spent 75% less. But the simple math is -- to replace all current tax, a sales tax would have to be 60% or more, and that would absolutely destroy the economy.
Ron Paul says if he is President, and FT passed, he wouuld sign it. Thats because he knows very welll it can never fucking pass cause its pure bullshit.
Yes, we need a new tax code. These fucking lying bastards at Fairtax are actually hurting any effort to get a new tax code, with this BS non fucking sense.
The FT is pure fucking bullshit you idiot -- its a MASSIVE new tax on the governement. Read that again dumb fuck -- a massive new tax the government pays its fucking self.
Fucking bullshit
Now can you fucking GUESS what's wrong with that shit? No -- you are too stupid to guess you mindless fucking sheep. How fucking stupid can you get.
Fairtax is a huge hoax -- nonsense, utter nonsense. It's own leaders know its nonsense, they aren't really trying to pass it.
Fairtax fine print has MASSIVE new hidden taxes on cities and states. Fairtax isn't about to try to sell that shit to Congress -- hell, they hide it in their fine print BECAUSE its bullshit.
Yes our tax code sucks -- but fairtax is pure bullshit. You cant make the government pay itself 2 trillion in taxes -- and count that as income, like Fairtax pretends it can.
so you are going to listen to the government, so you are going to listen to the Corporations, to the Irs, your going to listen to politicians? So where is your proof it is a HOax or B.s. Did you even look into it your self? Probably not. I bet you have no idea what is really going on under our noses with this system we are in.
The Fed is also Screwing this country, on top of that, the Shadow government is enslaving us all. Wake up my friend there is more going on than you realize.
No. The government cannot tax itself because the government is the tax beneficiary. If the government imposes a FT at 23% during the month as it collects revenue. Lets assume all retailers collect a billion dollars in taxes in Jan. At the beginning of Feb when all retailers pay one billion in the FT back where does it go? To the government. If the government pays 300 million in taxes in January and that 300 million is paid back in taxes in February how did the gov't get a new tax?
First -- its a huge NEW tax, a hidden tax no less - on all cities and states. Every city and state would have to pay this tax -- and Fairtax hides that in the fine print.
Next -- its not revenue neutral. It wouldn't bring in half enough money, becuase the government cant really fucking pay itself, that's just fucking bullshit.
How the fuck will renters pay this? How will cancer patients, nursing home residents, ect.
The government levies the Fair Tax at 23% then at the end of the month the government gets back from the retailer all 23%. The government gets back all taxes it pays out on goods because if you tax yourself and you pay yourself back that tax at the end of the month then its neutral. At the same time there are NO exemption at the the register where the tax is collected. Revenue Neutral across the board.
This is a HOAX you fucking idiot. ITs a fucking lunatic gimmick -- they are not serious about it, retard.
Each city, you dumb fuck, would have to pay massive taxes. Each state. Each everything dumb fuck.
Are you not grasping that you fucking retard?
Its not just a tax on people -- its insanely a tax on GOVERNMENT dumb fuck. They hid this part dumb fuck -- because its so full of shit. Got that retard?
What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.
Exempting government consumption will cause every one will ask the government to give them everything.
Actually, it subsidizes the underground economy. Under the Fair Tax scheme, every contraband trade is subsidized at the rate of 30%. Every hooker would be bribed $30 by Fair Tax for every $100 in tricks turned. Every heroin dealer eould be bribed $30 by Fair Tax for every $100 of heroin sold.
No. Prebate on all taxes on up to the poverty level on the cost of basic necessities is a prebate paid to every family in the United States. This is a revenue neutral plan. The rich and the poor and the middle get the prebate.
YOu dumb ass -- it doesn't fucking work. It's pure bullshit farce. Fairtax leaders fucking KNOW you can't put a huge sales tax on every city, every state, every county.
You can't fucking collect 100 billion in sales tax from the Pentagon dumb fuck -- they would have to get that from someplace.
I know the facts on Fairtax. Like that it's pure fucking bullshit -- and should NOT be treated with respect.
Its a fucking FARCE -- a huge lie, dumb ass.
In the fine print, its basically a HUGE fucking NEW tax -- never before even tried.
Why never tried? Becuase its fucking bullshit nonsense crap, that's why. Its a fucking MASSVIE tax on the government, That's why FT won't even go to a hearing under oath. That's why it's dead in the water - the leaders KNOW its bullshit.
There are plenty of proven and completely voluntary ways to fund legitimate government functions. Furthermore, if presidential candidates and congressional candidates are able to raise billions of dollars (collectively) through voluntary means while campaigning for office, why dont we simply require them to continue raising money via voluntarily means, after they are elected? Havent they just proven the ability to do just that?
Why would anyone who understands the meaning of Freedom, waste their time trying to figure out new ways for the feds to tax us?
Heres a better question: If we are supposed to have government by the people, of the people and for the people, why in the world would you need to force people to support that?
boss dumb fuck - I know the Fairtax plan as well as any of it's "leaders" -- I was for the Fairtax before most of you dumb fucks ever heard of it. Then I did learn the "details" and found it -- it's full of shit, a farce.
But Fairtax leaders know it''s a hoax, they are not about to let it even have a hearing under oath. It's make believe fucking nonsense. They would shit their pants if it ever got CLOSE to a hearing under oath.
The slave wage "income" tax is bondage and makes us slaves and worse the the Serfs. They used to pay their masters "after" feeding their children and clothing them. We pay our masters "before" we feed our children and clothe them. The fair tax is already shown to work, se Florida...
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Somone should expose this hoax, and I'mm doing it. Serious economist know this is a joke a farce.
You can't reallly make the government pay itself the largest sales tax on earth -- on all spending -- and collect income.
But thats exactly one of the bullshit farces of this con game.
Fairtax knows their shit is slick lies based on bullshit. They aren't even trying to pass it. 13 years, 23 milloin dollars, 8 million supporters -- blah blah
HOw stupid can you be??? Dude, the Fair Tax was actually THE tax system that the original founding fathers implemented. And it is what made us the most powerful economy in the world. Ever since the IRS and the slave wage "income" tax was implemented, our economy began to slowly decline...
Real math by real economists have shown a national sales tax -- to replace all other taxes -- is possible.
PRoblem is, the rate would be 60% -- or higher. That came from the Joint Commission on Taxation, a study done at request of President Bush.
But Fairtax claims it would only be 23% --- how? Because Fairtax lies to dumb ass people and tell them they can put a huge sales tax on the government, and get money that way.
That's just one of their lies. Its a bunch of crap.
I think everybody is on to you now Mark. Why don't you give it a break and move on to something else? Using multiple names and the same arguments is a dead give away. Get used to the FairTax, it's coming and your little bullshit arguments aren't going to stop it or change anybody's mind.
Yes, its BS. Let Huck tell this nonsense to someone whose child gets luekemia, and has 50,000 dollars in SALES taxes, just on the medical cost. Let Huck explain to renters who would have to pay 3-5 thousand a year, just in sales tax on their rent. Some poor bastark could rent, have high medical cost, and owe much higher taxes than they have income. Course, Huck won't tell the morons that truth.
I read the Fairtax book -- four times. Its a complete farce. Its bogus nonsense. The math is wacko. Its magic beans. Just ONE farce - it pretends to get MOST of the taxes FROM the government. Thats right you idiots, MOST of the tax money, the GOVERNMENT will pay ITSELF. It's dumber than hell.
mark it's bs. religious fundamentalist hillbillies back this redneck shyster because he used to be a pastor. mill, smith, hayek, friedman, and keynes all supported income taxes even though they disagreed over whether it should be progressive, negative, or flat.
No, Ron Paul is NOT one of the co-sponsors. He fails it's not good enough. He wants to eliminate taxes. However, we was asked if he'd approve the fairTax f he was president, and said yes he would. Bottom line: Ron Paul won't settle for the FairTax, because it's just one step toward downsizing the government. So far I haven't heard of a plan that will downsize the government BEFORE we get the FairTax, though.
HUGE Fair Tax Rally April 11, 2009 in Cola., SC. Gov. Huckabee, Neal Boortz and John Linder will all be there. Plan to attend. Giant crowds will convince the politicians we are serious about getting this passed into law!! See you there.
The Fair Tax sounds cool, but how the heck are you going to keep people from buying crap from overseas or from accross the border and having it shipped. I don't see why you would bother to buy anything from your local guys when you could get it free off shore. What are they going to do about that, shift all the IRS jobs to have people poking around in every package that comes into this country to find out if it has been taxed? Seriously.
What does that have to do with this? Why can't we elect a black man, a woman, a hispanic, an asian, a white guy, etc. because they're the right person for the job?
I'm for the fair tax plan. But,it will never pass. Why? It is too simple.Our politicians have to make everything real complicated and full of loop-holes. Also, as the saying goes, the more one makes, the more one spends. Politicians don't like this.
WE are the ones who can get this passed. Call your state reps. and let them know you want THE FAIR TAX. I let Lindsey Graham know I voted democrat for Senate this yr. because Bob Conley (the dem) was for FAIR TAX and Graham was not.
It's not really debateable, the numbers show (including supporters' own research, see links) that this tax would raise the taxes of the middle classes while lowering the taxes of the wealthy tremendously (sources: CBO, Table 1A, tinyurl 3gudvf, and fairtaxorg/BHI, Table 9, tiny 67cyeq
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings, and churches/religious groups, and not-for-profits, et cetera) would be devastated.
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings, and churches/religious groups, and not-for-profits, et cetera) would be devastated.
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings, and churches/religious groups, and not-for-profits, et cetera) would be devastated.
This nutty tax idea is a major reason Huckabee is out of the race.
If he supports this crackpot idea, it shows that he has not bothered to think it through... or he prefers taxing the middle classes, seniors, and churches, etc., more while cutting the taxes of the extremely wealthy.
Jumping on a tiny "grassroots" (lol, paid for by... look it up) movement without researching it is beyond foolhardy.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is FAIL.
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings) would be devastated.
This nutty tax idea is a major reason Huckabee is no longer a threat in the race.
If he supports this crackpot idea, it shows that he has not bothered to think it through... or he prefers taxing the middle classes, seniors, and churches, etc., more while cutting the taxes of the extremely wealthy.
Jumping on a tiny "grassroots" (lol, paid for by... look it up) movement without researching it is beyond foolhardy.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is FAIL.
This nutty tax idea is a major reason Huckabee is no longer a threat in the race.
If he supports this crackpot idea, it shows that he has not bothered to think it through... or he prefers taxing the middle classes, seniors, and churches, etc., more while cutting the taxes of the extremely wealthy.
Jumping on a tiny "grassroots" (lol, paid for by... look it up) movement without researching it is beyond foolhardy.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is FAIL.
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings) would be devastated.
Listen to the ignorance (or duplicity) of Huckabee, claiming that churches and non-profits will be better off under an FT/NST because they won't have to worry about losing their tax-exempt status under an FT/NST, LOL!
Ahh, yess, Mr. Huckabee, they won't have to worry BECAUSE THEY WILL ALREADY HAVE LOST THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS, paying national sales tax on purchases of goods and services. Whether they will be better off or worse off hinges on their current/future wage costs.
So now that I have shown that there are two ways to look at the situation, individually (as income taxes and FICA) or as an average across the whole("embedded taxes"), and that if one accepts the concept of "embedded taxes" one has to accept that the FT/NST is a "pimp windfall," let's take a look at the individual situation re:"pimps"...
When looking at it as the individual, clearly the "pimp" pays no FIT or FICA taxes now, obviously. But, guess what-- it is STILL a pimp windfall under the FT/NST even when looking at the pimp as PAYING NOTHING NOW!
Let's first understand the concept of "consumption power (CP)"-- if you make $100takehome now and milk is $5, your power is 20milks. If milk goes up to $10, your CP is 10milks. If your takehome wages then increase to $200takehome, your CP is 20milks.
If your takehome pay is $80 of $100gross before the imposition of an FT (16milks CP), and $80takehome/gross (still 16milks CP) AFTER imposition of an FT/NST (necessary to keep prices the same), in effect YOU are paying the pimp's taxes still, through lower gross pay.
So his consumption power stays they same, and so does yours, and it is the same CP as now.
I'll leave it to the educated among you to work through the situations if prices go up or if prices go down, just remember that the pimp's product price is essentially tied to prices, and fluctates the same (generally following CPI), and that if prices go up and the pimp pays more, WE ALL pay more.
You will find that the pimp has a windfall no matter which way prices go, because of the prebate.
So now that I have shown that there are two ways to look at the situation, individually (as income taxes and FICA) or as an average across the whole("embedded taxes"), and that if one accepts the concept of "embedded taxes" one has to accept that the FT/NST is a "pimp windfall," let's take a look at the individual situation re:"pimps"...
When looking at it as the individual, clearly thew "pimp" pays no FIT or FICA taxes now, obviously. But, guess what-- it is STILL a pimp windfall under the FT/NST even when looking at the pimp as PAYING NOTHING NOW!
Let's first understand the concept of "consumption power (CP)"-- if you make $100takehome now and milk is $5, your power is 20milks. If milk goes up to $10, your CP is 10milks. If your takehome wages then increase to $200takehome, your CP is 20milks.
Boy, this FairTax is really gonna suck for you isn't it Disky? You may even have to give up your food stamps and welfare check and get a job. We have another big mall event this weekend. We had upwards of 3000 new people there supporting the FairTax. I'll bet this weekend will be even bigger!
The FT/NST is often pushed with the idea that "you can control how much you pay in taxes," so llet's look at this claim.
Who can most easily avoid taxes by buying very expensive "used' real estate, or "used factories" or castles in Germany? The very wealthy, of course. Clearly the wealthy will pay less in taxes under an FT-- mathematically they automatically get at least an 11% rate reduction (26 v. 23%). Where is this money made up to keep the tax revenue neutral?
Clearly the FT "reveneue neutral" rate is mandated by consumption, and supporters state that consumption rates are steadier than income. So even if consumption is steady, and the wealthy consume exactly the same under the FT/NST, where do the taxes needed to make up their lower rates (again, 23 v. 26%)?
Looking at the current total effective tax rates of the middle classes, we see that the taxes are made up by them-- because 23% is greater than 10-21%.
So what happens if all classes start legally avoiding the tax (saving more, buying "used") and consumption starts to drop? Clearly, to remain "revenue neutral" the rate would have to be increased. And as the rate is increased, the all classes try to avoid more... but which class can avoid the most, which class has the most disposable income to do with as they wish (like saving)? Clearly, the wealthy. Clearly, the middle classes bear the burden of much of the tax avoidance the wealthy partake of.
Hopefully at this point one or two fans out there are starting to think, starting to analyze the idea of supposed "embedded tax costs" and why it was created by Boortz et al.
One step is realizing that FIT and FICA and matching FICA are, in reality, wage and labor costs for comapanies, and that the amounts are different %ages of COGS for different companies, understanding that 23% is just an average--
ou start to see the reason WHY the backers want most people to think about it as 23% average rather than what it really is (different for every company): in this way people who only have 0-15% of their wages paid in as taxes won't question how a 23% FT rate is obviously worse for them, because they are made to think that they are paying 23% in everytrhing they buy... when clearly they are not, THOSE AMOUNTS ARE FROM OTHER FOLKS WAGES, and are a business WAGES/LABOR cost, not "embedded taxes."
A simple way to see this is to realize that you cannot claim you pay income taxes AND 23% embedded tax costs in everything you buy, as OTHERS claiming the same thing about supposed "embedded taxes" from YOUR employer leads to all the tax revenue being counted TWICE, by the person whose wages the taxes came from AND by those buying the product with the supposed "emb. taxes."
These supposed "embedded taxes" (an average)can be analyzed in a general way, but cannot be applied to the individual.
I guess the FairTax is just gonna suck for you then. On Saturday our FT support groups set up tables in two of the larger shopping malls. We had computers set up with internet connections courtesy of Radio Shack. B Dalton & Waldenbooks both had ordered extra copies of the FT book and sold out! We had people writing their congressmen from our computers! We had crowds around our tables! It was a huge success. I'm sure we picked up upwards of 3000 new supporters. With not one negative comment!
Is the FT/NST "progressive" or "regressive"? Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
Those who undertand what this means now understand what a bad idea the FT/NST is.
It is easy to look at the numbers and see the fraud the backers of the FT/NST are trying to pull-- raising the taxes of the middle class while lowering the taxes of the very wealthy.
Huckabee is either a dupe, or in on the scam.
Some obvious truths:
1)The FT/NST does not "tax the underground" any more than they are taxed now if one agrees with the supporters' concept of "embedded taxes"
2)Estate & capital gains taxes are not "embedded tax costs"
today: we are paying a tax on income and payroll then paying for it again at the register under embedded taxes (which you dispute). Sure pimps etc pay an embedded tax, but they aren't helping on the income or payroll portion. Don't try to pretend we forgot that part
That is absolutely not true... YOU CANNOT CLAIM WE PAY THE SAME TAXES TWICE. Assume you buy something YOUR EMPLOYER makes... are you paying the alleged "embedded taxes" on the part which is due to the taxes FROM YOUR PAYCHECK. Of course not. If you do not understand the math, get someone to explain it to you.
When I said "we are paying a tax on income and payroll then paying for it again at the register under embedded taxes" it was poorly worded. We do not pay an income tax twice, we foot the bill once the business isn't going to charge us again. You're right.
What I was getting at is that we're in essence paying a tax again at the register. I'll clarify in the next post
embedded taxes exist as taxes the business has to pay for simply being a business and having employees. To say a business is not incorporating that into their final price would be naive, and saying businesses don't pay taxes would be too. I hope you understand that and you were just taking advantage of my poor wording to make embedded taxes sound made up.
You can only look at taxes one way at a time to make a valid argument-- either as a part of your wages that are removed in the specific, or as embedded taxes in the general way.
If you consider taxes as "emebedded" in prices rather than as removed from wages, 3 things are indisputable facts:
1)Pimps, criminals, and illegals would not paymore under an FTNST-- taxes are "embedded" in all they buy, that is your claim.
2)the 23% rate was calculated by ALSO removing estate and corporate taxes, and these are clearly not "embedded" in prices, as is seen by considering a business with a loss.
3)Depending on the amount of wages, a business would have different percentages of "embedded" taxes. So those with less than 23% (most-- remember #2 above) will raise prices under an FTNST.
why is it illogical to say we pay more than what's in our check? Yes we get our taxes removed from our income. The businesses have other taxes that must be accounted for so they factor them into their price. That increase in price, while not a direct tax, equates to us paying those taxes for them.
Because you are still counting the same money TWICE.
First you are saying the employee is paying it from his wages (this is the correct way-- it is a WAGE cost for the business, not a tax cost), then you are saying that the customer is paying the the monies again-- he is not, it's the same money, it's linear--
customer money goes to business, business pays (or has paid) some as wages to employee, employee receives wages (part of same money, see) and pays some to gov. (continued)
I would like to point out that if you believe the extremely wealthy who have the highest income and payroll tax bracket actually pays that much, you are mistaken. How many of them do you believe pay a payroll tax in the first place? They are the ones with power, they simply transfer the bill to the middle class and poor. The key to eliminating many advantages these individuals have is through the simplicity and clarity the FT brings
It is not a belief, it is a fact from governmental data.
Are you actually foolish enough to believe that a SALES TAX will tax them more, especially when it is 23% as opposed to the 26% average they pay now the math is very simple, do it and get back to me.
We need to get on the same page. I was talking about a payroll tax and the extremely wealthy. I doubt there are many people who are considered extremely wealthy who earn wages...
You are right, they pay the most in income taxes by far. However, when you factor in payroll taxes the middle class gets it in the rear.
You can't deny the influence the top 1% has on our government. If they truly don't want to pay something, they find a way around it.
Of course no Democrat would ever support it. Tax and spend is their mantra. Social programs that require lots of taxes. They want the power to tax citizens into oblivion. And as far as McCain is concerned, he seems very interested in the FairTax. If I were a betting man, I say he'd sign the bill if it gets to his desk. He's already acknowledged the groundswell of support.
My grandmother is a diehard democrat and supports the Fairtax. Most Repblican politicians these days are hardly conservative when you look at their rediculous spending habits.
The Fairtax is just logical, and I think logic+ a need for reform goes beyond party lines
By now, hopefully, those with open minds are starting to see the many problems that the FT/NST creates, and how it is a Very Bad Idea.
It would hammer the middle classes with a tax increase while making not just April 15th a tax day, but every day of the year tax day, bleeding the middle classes dry one drop at a time.
Luckily, McCain will be the Republican nominee, and he will likely not support the FT/NST if elected, and of course no Democrat nominee would ever support it.
Thanks for that info Disky. It'll probably be on the front page of USA Today for tomorrows issue. Americans will be forever indebted for you spamming this video! Oh wait! CNN just reported: "Nerd dismantles FairTax on YouTube"! Wow, you did it Disky! You reached America!
you want to drive an FT/NST suporter to think, ask how Social Security could be disbursed under an FT/NST.
"Employers will report your income," they will say.
To which I reply:
"Sweeet," all the pimps will say, "now we can report our self-employment 'income', and since there is no way to disprove, make up the amounts, reporting much higher than we make to ensure more SS$ when we retire. Pimp windfall!"
The "Fair" Tax-- every pimps' dream form of taxation.
For another example of many "Fair Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTI" fans blatant disregard for the truth, look at their claim that it has "non-partisan support."
Their definition of "non-partisan" seems to be that if even 1 Democrat is for it it is 'non-partisan" -- lolFAIL.
Just look at the "Taxation Scorecard" on AFT's own site to see just how extremely partisan the FT/NST support/opposition is.
It lowers taxes for the uber wealthy, so you guess which party suports it.
If it lowers taxes for the wealthiest, my assumption is that both sides of the political elite support it...
back to reality, I have a mailing list full of mostly liberals who support this movement. For me, this is an indicator that people crave change and that this reform makes sense to both sides.
Currently, the highest quintile pay an effective federal tax rate of 26.5%, pay 64% of all federal tax liabilities. If we assume their taxes are 23% inder an FT/NST (i.e., they spend essentially 100% of their annual income on taxed items), the amount of taxes they pay in has been reduced by 13%.
This 13% of 64% they pay now is 8.3% of all federal taxes, which has to be made up by the bottom 80% of taxpayers.
They pay 36% of fed taxes, and adding the 8.3% increases their tax rate 25%.
Oh Disky. Poor little failure in life. I don't offer evidence to you because, after all, who are you but a little nerd with nothing else to do but spam FairTax video's? I go to the FairTax meetings, I write my elected officials, I campaign. So tell me Disky, if it's so wrong, why are you not doing anything to keep it from passing? You think America comes to see what you have to say here on YouTube? Let's hurry up and get to YouTube so we can see what Disky's advice is!
See denim keep blathering yet offering no evidence... because he hasn't looked at the math (wonder if he STILL thinks the prebate would be based on income,lolFAIL), he just wallows in his jealous ignorance. Notice how he avoids answering ANY of the points made against the tax. Because... he can't. He is the typical prole dupe the AFT backers are looking for-- "to he** with the math or logic, Chuck Norris thinks it's a good idee!"
Yeah, sad thing though... not too many people on the fence. How about that Republican debate video Disky? Wonder why 7 out of 8 candidates either outright supported FairTax or supported some form of flat or consumption tax or no tax at all? Yeah, we're all crazy and you're the only sane one alive Disky. Boy, it must be nice on your planet.
I think by now those on the fence about this tax can see who is educated on it and provides numbers and facts (opponents), and who is not and engages in endless ad hominem and cultism (most supporters).
Poor ignorant denim, hasn't heard of computers for data manipulation and record storage.
And look as his jealousy has him imagining all his opponents live in trailers (he seems to know a lot about trailers, hmmmm). He keeps imagining my old office at my rental was my whole house lol. I'll just laugh all the way to retirement as in my neighborhood houses have increased in value 300-400% in the last 10 years.. shame I have two such houses (kaching).
Disky, I apologize for assuming you live in a trailer. Sorry. I watched your little gay tee shirt fashion show... with that really old dilapidated house in the background. Yep, you sure look like a financial success. A man who has so many tee shirts must have struck it rich! And those top-of-the-line eye glass frames! Those must have really set you back at least, what, $25.00? So stylish and successful! Well, I'm impressed! No wonder nobody pays any attention to you.
Poor little Disky! I've caught him in so many lies. He doesn't think about what he's saying and he forgets what he's said before. Trying so desperately to get some attention. First he says he's in business and employs people, then he says he doesn't keep but a small shoe box of tax records. The 1st lie. Then he says he has a 350k house, but in the pictures on his YouTube page, there is an unmistakable trailer, with cheap looking furnishings and piles of junk. 2nd lie. More to come. Stay tuned!
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you Disky. I went to my local FairTax, Kool-Aid drinking meeting. My congressman was there. He supports the FairTax. How many meetings have you gone to Disky? Oh, that's right, you don't do anything constructive to help your cause... you just comment on one or two video's on YouTube. ROFLMAO!!!! What a L-L-L-LOSER!
By-the-way Disky, my congressman says that more of his colleagues are starting to become more interested in FairTax. 100 cosponsors by May!
"I have no experience, I have no qualifications, I have no education, My life has been a failure, I know about as much about the economy as my dog... but please everybody, I really am smart. Just because my life is a failure and I live in either a trailer or a really junked up house, I really am smart. I can't help it that nobody ever picked me to be on their team. It really hurt my feelings, so if you'll listen to me now, it'll make me feel better."
"I will never admit I am wrong, even when I clearly am. I prefer ad hominem to facts. I have read nothing and no numbers about FT/NST but I think everyone who has is wrong. I want to pay a lot more in taxes, because then I won't have to keep a box of papers and do some simple addition every year. I don't care if they won't be able to disburse Social Security funds accurately under FT/NST. Yes Huckabee, I will drink the 'Fair' Tax Kool-Aid, tax me more!"
You're starting to sound really sad Disky. You've proven that you haven't read HR 25 or the FairTax book. If anyone's whining little man, it's you. Ignoring the groundswell of support and the members of congress who've signed on to either cosponsor the bill, or support it. You're twisted little narrow mind is in such a turmoil! Poor Disky, a failure at life. No credentials, no experience... why doesn't anyone want to hear poor little Disky's numbers? Here's a clue... nobody cares to hear you!
Again, we see how fans like denim continually avoid the facts and run off on minor tangents, cultishly holdong on to disnegenuous soundbites while never looking at the numbers, never answering questions posed to them but throwing up straw men.
Your starting to sound desperate now Disky. I don't care what your twisted take on the FairTax is. I don't think anyone else is either. Maybe if you had some type of credentials... maybe. But here's this little nerd that spams YouTube FairTax video's with nothing else to do. No accounting degree, no economics degree, no more experience than the average person. I still want control over my taxes, no matter how many times you come back and slam it or me.
Keep whining while ignoring the numbers-- still think the prebate is based on income, lol? You clearly know next-to-nothing about this lame FT/NST, and are just spouting to cover your ignorance. Maybe one day you or your wife will read up on it and find out the facts... but at this point I doubt it, you will just act like the average cult-member prole, waiting for the Kool-Aid.
Now I know you don't know what you're talking about! And you CAN'T be in business if all you have is a small shoebox of papers! Ha! You're asking for an audit! You go in to an audit with a small shoebox of records and you're gonna get raked over the coals! My wife keeps Boxes and boxes of tax records for 5 years back! What planet are you on? Disky, you're actually making my case for me! You must be insane!
You are lol funny in your cultish devotion to a NAtional Sales Tax... wanting to pay much more in taxes and give pimps a windfall prebate just so you won't have to keep a few boxes of papers for a few years.
You're still lying about your business and who knows what else. Anybody who's in business knows to keep extensive records. If you don't, well, you're pretty brave... or stupid. You can bring up pimps till hell freezes Disky. It gives everyone else the same "windfall" prebate... Fair.
No 1040's, no 1099's, no W2's, no W4's, no receipts. No danger of ever getting audited. No danger of ever having assets seized. Complete control over our taxation.
See folks, here is a prime example of how denim refuses to see the math-- he STILL doesn't realize that under the FT/NST, no matter what happens to prices, the honest taxpaying middle-class person's purchasing power DECLINES on average because he will be paying a higher effective tax rate (and "whole paycheck" generally equals takehome now), while the pimp's purchasing power increases, because he receives a prebate AND his income change is generally proportional to changes in prices overall.
Another problem with the FT/NSt (there are soo many, they just keep coming to mind lol):
How will social security amounts be disbursed under ft/NST, since their will be no records of amounts paid in by individuals as sales taxes, and no records of individuals levels of income?
Thanks for bringing this point out Disky! I couldn't pay to get such good information! Isn't it great? Americans would no longer have to keep receipts, tax records, and forms from years back... actually no records at all! No filing tax returns! No 1040's, no 1099's, no W2's! April 15 is no longer a source of anger and frustration! Employers would report earnings of employees so the amount of each family's prebate can be determined! You are terrific Disky! Thanks! ROFLMAO!!!
WOW! You mean I won't have to keep a small shoebox of papers... and the only price to pay is a higher effective tax rate for middle class workers? What a deal!
Lack of records leads to larger non-compliance in taxes.
Oh, so employers will report employees' wages, ehh? Better tell all the FT fans-- seems a lot of them assume that the fedgov WON't get that info-- that is why they SUPPORT the FT/NST.
Dumbass, you miss the whole point of FairTax. The burden of compliance wouldn't be the individual! All the individual has to do is go to the store and make a purchase! Wow, you make this too easy! The burden of compliance would be up to the business. You said you were in business, would you risk your business by not sending in the taxes you collect or worse yet, not even collect the taxes on sales? If a business offers me a cash deal, sure I'll take it, it's not my ass on the line! ROFLMAO!!!
Earnings have everything to do with the prebate! How else would they tell who's under the poverty level and who's not? Everybody gets a prebate, the more you make the less you get. That's for an individual. Married and married with children adjusts the prebate amount. Come on man, this is too easy. You're losing it Disky!
IF you want to see something really funny, check out the recent history of which economists the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" fans have pushed as their economic genius-- pay particular attention to their opinion of Jorgenson in the past and their opinion now, lol.
A lot of their calls-to-authority used to rest on him, but since he, among other ideas, favors or favored more energy taxes and "carbon taxes"-- he fell out of their "go-to-economist-guy" list.
The root of the problem with many supporters is they think the system is "broken" because they think they have to pay too much (and it is mainly FICA for most of them)-- not realizing that if they make about $30k to $200-$300K a year, they will pay an higher effective rate with the FT/NST.
Oh Disky! That's good! You can't come up with 5 good things, so you push it off on me? ROFLMAO! Come on Disky, surely such a great YouTube economist can come up with just 5 good things on the current system! Come on Disky, show us how smart you are! Just 5 little bitty things! I can't stop laughing!
You are the one wanting to change the system to the inane National Sales Tax... it is up to you to establish why this would allegedly be sooooo much better.
Here's one great thing about the curent system: it doesn't screw the middle classes with a higher effective rate like the FT/NST would.
Here's another: the wealthy, who can easily afford it, pay more under the current system than they would under an FT/NST.
Wow, lot's of "sites".. oh wait, they are mostly FT fans blogs and sub-sites of AFT, mostly logrolling the AFT site and referencing mostly Kotlikoff. Such a surprise that that would come up if you Google "Fair Tax,"
lolFAIL.
Meanwhile, here in reality, The New York Times, The Washington Post, CBS News, etc., report that most economists are opposed to the FT/NST. But hey, BillyBob blogging about how the IRS is evil incarnate knows much more about the FT/NST than them big city folks.
To anyone: Google Fair Tax. Go as deep in the search as you want. Then tell me what you find. I was able to find "maybe", two out of every ten web sites/articles are against FairTax. See who's "cherry picking". I found at least 80 to 90 percent in favor of Fair Tax. But please, don't believe me... show this little nerd what you find.
You're amazing Disky! I'm "cherry picking"? I'M CHERRY PICKING"? I'd like to know where you find these "legions". So far, the only person you quote is Bruce Bartlett, (ex IRS) with his flawed analysis. Tell you what Disky since I've blown your cover, I'll give you a chance at redemption. You name 5 good things about the current tax system and I'll name 5 Good things about the Fair Tax, and we'll see what the majority of America wants. That's 5 good things Disky, NOT 5 bad things about FairTax.
There he goes AGAIN.. cherrypicking the handful of economic professors that support this tax (mainly those who think raising taxes on the middle class and lowering them for the wealthy is a good idea-- human nature is not their strong suit, lol) and ignoring the legions of "economic professors" who think the FT/NST is unworkable to "crackpot." Sure, the handful chosen (chosen BECAUSE they PREVIOUSLY supported NST ideas) must be right, the majority of profs against the tax must be wrong. Rigghht.
I didn't say you were wrong Disky. What I am saying is this: Do we believe some little nerd or do we believe the economists that developed the FairTax from scratch? You say economists from MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Boston University and a list that space here won't allow, are wrong. You said that, didn't you? You accuse me of "cherry picking" my sources. Maybe, but my sources are university economic professors. Aren't they the ones who actually teach economics to the newspaper reporters you quote?
See what I mean... guys like this go on about how I am wrong because I don't agree with the MINORITY of economists et cetera who support the FT/NST*, while he ignores the MAJORITY of economists, assuming THEY don't know what they are talking about.
Sources: NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, CBS News, et cetera
Well then. Let's see. Does anyone want to post numbers for Diskatopia? Does anyone think they'll be able to convince him that he's wrong? Diskatopia already says that tax attorneys, CPAs, economists from MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Boston University, and a list that space won't allow here, don't know what they're talking about. So, is there anyone who wants to post numbers for Diskatopia? I'm sure anyone with half a brain can see the futility in posting numbers for Diskatopia. Get a hobby Disky.
And my main question remains. Why here Disk? How many people do you think you're going to reach? If you hate the FairTax so much, wouldn't it be much more productive to form your own focus group? Put an ad in the paper... call it "Citizens Against Fair Taxation" or something catchy like that. You'll probably draw all the finest economists, as you claim. Or even go to your local FairTax group meeting and see if they'll debate with you. Take your calculator with you... show them how smart you are.
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Read tiny url 593htl . It is a link to supporters' own research. The important part to read is page 30 on, "Appendix: Households’ Well-Being under the FairTax", in which they clearly state that according to their research those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay MORE in taxes under the "Fair" Tax than now. They try and fudge around this with what they call "income mobility", however Table 13 makes it clear--that mobility is into poverty-- and they call that a positive.
FairTaxisaLie 3 hours ago
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The "Fair" Tax is basically class warfare,the wealthy declaring war on the middleclasses by raising their effective tax rates. It would, by Americans for Fair Taxation's own admission, raise the effective tax rate of those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year while lowering the effective rate of those making $150,000 and up a year. Source:tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on -pay particular attention to table 13, years 7-8 -- would you be "better off" if your income dropped from $25k to less than $10k?
FairTaxisaLie 5 months ago
Love it all. I don't agree that it would end the underground economy; It wouldn't "END" the underground economy (which is fine because there will always be illegal activity everywhere) HOWEVER, those who work illegally will now become part of a tax paying society and contribute to the schools that teach our kids, the roads that drive us to the there and the parks in which we play afterwards.
kurolap 7 months ago
Fairtax is goofy crap. First of all, its a direct tax on all government PENSIONS, including military pensions. SInce when is a sales tax applied to PENSIONS??
Yes, pensions are taxed, all government wages are taxed, all city county and state wages,benefits and pensions.
And these taxes have to be paid --- IN ADVANCE!. That is just PART of the goofy shit. See footnote 19 in Fairtax document about the "advance" tax on wages and pensions.
Fairtax is really goofy shit.
12FlyMe 7 months ago
ron paul 2012
gonadcancervictim 11 months ago
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Nice videos this you tube world just gets bigger every day! When you have time come visit my channel!
simplechocolatediet 11 months ago
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Nice videos this you tube world just gets bigger every day! When you have time come visit my channel!
FatReleaseSystem 11 months ago
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Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. Compare vocabulary and style. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools, TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
urgener 1 year ago
Enacting the Fair Tax or any other national sales tax would require repealing the 16th Amendment first. That would have to be done with something never tried before. 2/3 of the state legislatures, 34 in other words, would have to request a constitutional convention to consider an amendment to repeal the 16th. Then 3/4 of the state legislatures, or 38, would have to ratify the amendment.
forexrobots212 1 year ago
I'm trying to get more involved in getting the Fair Tax passed. I saw a great ad on tv about a week ago that led me to this website where I both signed and donated because they are trying to air a 30 minute national show on the Fair Tax so they can gain supporters. PassFairTax(dot)com
BrSmith1321 1 year ago
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MathTruthTax
FreeLunchTax
SouthernFriedHoney
FarceTax
PeopleLieAboutTaxes
12FlyMe
Are all the same person spamming all the fair tax debates.
riotuesday 2 years ago
No dumb fuck -- Ron Paul isnt for Fairtax because he knows its pure bullshit.
It's like saying you have a magic pony that shits gold. Sure, Fairtax would work if we spent 75% less. But the simple math is -- to replace all current tax, a sales tax would have to be 60% or more, and that would absolutely destroy the economy.
Ron Paul says if he is President, and FT passed, he wouuld sign it. Thats because he knows very welll it can never fucking pass cause its pure bullshit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Yes, we need a new tax code. These fucking lying bastards at Fairtax are actually hurting any effort to get a new tax code, with this BS non fucking sense.
The FT is pure fucking bullshit you idiot -- its a MASSIVE new tax on the governement. Read that again dumb fuck -- a massive new tax the government pays its fucking self.
Fucking bullshit
Now can you fucking GUESS what's wrong with that shit? No -- you are too stupid to guess you mindless fucking sheep. How fucking stupid can you get.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
Fairtax is a huge hoax -- nonsense, utter nonsense. It's own leaders know its nonsense, they aren't really trying to pass it.
Fairtax fine print has MASSIVE new hidden taxes on cities and states. Fairtax isn't about to try to sell that shit to Congress -- hell, they hide it in their fine print BECAUSE its bullshit.
Yes our tax code sucks -- but fairtax is pure bullshit. You cant make the government pay itself 2 trillion in taxes -- and count that as income, like Fairtax pretends it can.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
so you are going to listen to the government, so you are going to listen to the Corporations, to the Irs, your going to listen to politicians? So where is your proof it is a HOax or B.s. Did you even look into it your self? Probably not. I bet you have no idea what is really going on under our noses with this system we are in.
The Fed is also Screwing this country, on top of that, the Shadow government is enslaving us all. Wake up my friend there is more going on than you realize.
bigsteelguy 2 years ago
No. The government cannot tax itself because the government is the tax beneficiary. If the government imposes a FT at 23% during the month as it collects revenue. Lets assume all retailers collect a billion dollars in taxes in Jan. At the beginning of Feb when all retailers pay one billion in the FT back where does it go? To the government. If the government pays 300 million in taxes in January and that 300 million is paid back in taxes in February how did the gov't get a new tax?
hdaen01 1 year ago
@hdaen01 dumb fuck -- no idiot, FT con artist are counting it as INCOME you dumb fuck. Not as an expense or a wash idiot.
They had to pretend that shit, dumb fuck, to make the "math" work.
Plus you fucking idiot -- every city and state would pay it too dumb fuck. '
they wouldnt get it back, would they retard? Go fucking add up what all cities would pay retard. add up what all states would have to pay, retard.
Do you get the picture yet, retard?
It's a fucking hoax
SteamboatCamp 1 year ago
Fun fact. me and a few FT volunteers came up with a drinking game. Every time Mark says "dumb fuck" you take a drink.
after 5 hospitalizations and 2 deaths we had to put a stop to it, though.
laudanum4u 1 year ago 2
MurphysTaxLaw/Taxfools/FarceTax/2FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector are all the same person, he probably learned his thuggery techniques from ACRON
kaziqbal 2 years ago
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ntpyles 2 years ago
There is nothing about Fairtax that is valid.
First -- its a huge NEW tax, a hidden tax no less - on all cities and states. Every city and state would have to pay this tax -- and Fairtax hides that in the fine print.
Next -- its not revenue neutral. It wouldn't bring in half enough money, becuase the government cant really fucking pay itself, that's just fucking bullshit.
How the fuck will renters pay this? How will cancer patients, nursing home residents, ect.
Pure fucking BS
MurphysTaxLaw 2 years ago
The government levies the Fair Tax at 23% then at the end of the month the government gets back from the retailer all 23%. The government gets back all taxes it pays out on goods because if you tax yourself and you pay yourself back that tax at the end of the month then its neutral. At the same time there are NO exemption at the the register where the tax is collected. Revenue Neutral across the board.
hdaen01 1 year ago
@hdaen01 you are a complete dumb fuck, dumb fuck.
This is a HOAX you fucking idiot. ITs a fucking lunatic gimmick -- they are not serious about it, retard.
Each city, you dumb fuck, would have to pay massive taxes. Each state. Each everything dumb fuck.
Are you not grasping that you fucking retard?
Its not just a tax on people -- its insanely a tax on GOVERNMENT dumb fuck. They hid this part dumb fuck -- because its so full of shit. Got that retard?
Its full of shit
MurphysTaxLaw 1 year ago
@MurphysTaxLaw and your 35 other youtube aliases
What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.
Exempting government consumption will cause every one will ask the government to give them everything.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
7:12 "It ends the underground economy"
Actually, it subsidizes the underground economy. Under the Fair Tax scheme, every contraband trade is subsidized at the rate of 30%. Every hooker would be bribed $30 by Fair Tax for every $100 in tricks turned. Every heroin dealer eould be bribed $30 by Fair Tax for every $100 of heroin sold.
hitssquad 2 years ago
Hit -- excellent point, but the discount would go to people who evade the massive tax.
Don't worry , it's a farce, its own leaders know its a farce. They aren''t trying to pass it.
FairtaxFraud 2 years ago
No. Prebate on all taxes on up to the poverty level on the cost of basic necessities is a prebate paid to every family in the United States. This is a revenue neutral plan. The rich and the poor and the middle get the prebate.
hdaen01 1 year ago
I should find out how Fairtax WORKS?
YOu dumb ass -- it doesn't fucking work. It's pure bullshit farce. Fairtax leaders fucking KNOW you can't put a huge sales tax on every city, every state, every county.
You can't fucking collect 100 billion in sales tax from the Pentagon dumb fuck -- they would have to get that from someplace.
You fuck tards are dumber than shit
MurphysTaxLaw 2 years ago
I was a Fairtax fan until I saw their bullshit fucking fine print. Read it your self.
A huge tax on every city, every state, even the military? Are you fucking nuts? How will the government get the money to pay it?
Its fucking lie you dumb fuck. They had to lie --- cause the truth is, a national sales tax to replace all other taxes would be 60-90%. Not 23%
They KNOW it can't be 23, that's why they had to lie. So they lied and said they could tax the gov. Bullshit.
Taxfools 2 years ago
I know the facts on Fairtax. Like that it's pure fucking bullshit -- and should NOT be treated with respect.
Its a fucking FARCE -- a huge lie, dumb ass.
In the fine print, its basically a HUGE fucking NEW tax -- never before even tried.
Why never tried? Becuase its fucking bullshit nonsense crap, that's why. Its a fucking MASSVIE tax on the government, That's why FT won't even go to a hearing under oath. That's why it's dead in the water - the leaders KNOW its bullshit.
Taxfools 2 years ago
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Check this shit out -- Fairtax claims it "will make the federal government a MAJOR taxpayer"
Yeah, and I got a MAJOR magical pony to sell you that shits gold.
Fairtax also claims every city, state, police department, veteran's hospital, etc will be major taxpayers too.
Dumb fucking liars -- only PEOPLE pay taxes.
Google Fairtax absurdity
Why the fuck do you think retailers hate it, and Corporations laugh at it?
Cause Fairtax is a fucking fairy tale.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
There are plenty of proven and completely voluntary ways to fund legitimate government functions. Furthermore, if presidential candidates and congressional candidates are able to raise billions of dollars (collectively) through voluntary means while campaigning for office, why dont we simply require them to continue raising money via voluntarily means, after they are elected? Havent they just proven the ability to do just that?
healthhavencom 2 years ago
Why would anyone who understands the meaning of Freedom, waste their time trying to figure out new ways for the feds to tax us?
Heres a better question: If we are supposed to have government by the people, of the people and for the people, why in the world would you need to force people to support that?
Answer: You wouldn't.
healthhavencom 2 years ago
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The Fairtax concept is awesome -- but so is the concept of a magician making a dove come out of a napkin.
Here is a clue -- the dove didn't come from the napkin.
Fairtax napkin trick is revealed on page 148 of FT Book
"The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
When the fed gov sends itself a check -- it has to PAY the check too. So there is no spendable income from itself.
Yes-- its silly as that. And Fairtax knows it. Google Fairtax absurdity.
PowerPlantEngineer 2 years ago
Farce Tax -- its a farce, its not a serious plan ding dongs.
Fairtax is total bullshit -- it pretends to get most of federal revenue by taxing the federal government.
Yes, its THAT fuching stupid, THAT much of a hoax.
Google Fairtax Absurdity.
MurphysTaxLaw 2 years ago
You should really become more educated on how the fairtax works.
boss42971 2 years ago
Fairtax is a complete bogus piece of nonsense -- written by liars. Huck is either a dumb ass or a liar.
I bet he is a liar.
Fairtax isn't a serious plan - the leaders know its pure bullshit. It pretends to get half of government revenue by taxing itself.
It's utter garbage. We need a new tax code - not some lunatic con job based on pure bullshit. Google Fairtax absurdity, and learn something.
Quit being such a dumb ass sucker to liars like Huck and Fairtax.
FairtaxFraud 2 years ago
Which idiot said here Fairtax was the tax system our founding fathers used?
Retard - NO government anywhere ever put a sales tax on its own spending - and counted that as income.
What part of this don't you understand dumb ass? Fairtax pretends to tax the government when the government spends money.
When the government spends money -- it has to PAY itself - and you dumb fucks don't say "say what?"
Hell no you don't cause you are dumb asses.
FairtaxFraud 2 years ago
You can't construct complete sentences or debate an issue without calling people names, and you expect people to care what you think about tax code?
ElPupitre 2 years ago
Every time you use profanity your credibility diminishes significantly. Learn the facts about the fairtax plan.
boss42971 2 years ago 6
boss dumb fuck - I know the Fairtax plan as well as any of it's "leaders" -- I was for the Fairtax before most of you dumb fucks ever heard of it. Then I did learn the "details" and found it -- it's full of shit, a farce.
But Fairtax leaders know it''s a hoax, they are not about to let it even have a hearing under oath. It's make believe fucking nonsense. They would shit their pants if it ever got CLOSE to a hearing under oath.
FairtaxFraud 1 year ago
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I did read the FT Book -- four times, and have the second book.
Funny how the first Fairtax book brags that "Fairtax makes the federal government become a MAJOR taxpayer".
City, county, and state governments have to- pay this huge sales tax too.
In fact, Fairtax math is based on over a trillion in taxes FROM the government.
But then the second book -- which was going to answer critics -- never dared touch this subject.
Why?
Because that's their bullshit, and they know it.
MakeMyPower 2 years ago
Fairtax is bullshit farce.
For example -- it pretends it can collect over a trillion dollars FROM -- thats right FROM -- the government in taxes.
Read the fucking book, page 148 "The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer."
Pure bullshit farce. They are selling your dumb ass a Magic Pony that shits gold.
Pure bullshit. And Huck knows it.
Huck is a liar or a dumb ass - take your pick.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
The slave wage "income" tax is bondage and makes us slaves and worse the the Serfs. They used to pay their masters "after" feeding their children and clothing them. We pay our masters "before" we feed our children and clothe them. The fair tax is already shown to work, se Florida...
divine137 2 years ago 2
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What part of "the government can't pay itself a trillion dollars in sales taxes" don't you fuching get?
Yes retard -- Fairtax depends on shit like that. Their bullshit math depends on getting a MAJOR part of taxes FROM taxing the government.
Its dumber than dog shit.
Read the fuching book page 148. "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
And thats just ONE thing -- its all based on bullshit like that.
Its a magic pony that shits gold. Its a farce.
FarceTax 2 years ago
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Somone should expose this hoax, and I'mm doing it. Serious economist know this is a joke a farce.
You can't reallly make the government pay itself the largest sales tax on earth -- on all spending -- and collect income.
But thats exactly one of the bullshit farces of this con game.
Fairtax knows their shit is slick lies based on bullshit. They aren't even trying to pass it. 13 years, 23 milloin dollars, 8 million supporters -- blah blah
And no hearing? Not one?
Funny
FairtaxFraud 2 years ago
HOw stupid can you be??? Dude, the Fair Tax was actually THE tax system that the original founding fathers implemented. And it is what made us the most powerful economy in the world. Ever since the IRS and the slave wage "income" tax was implemented, our economy began to slowly decline...
divine137 2 years ago 2
Real math by real economists have shown a national sales tax -- to replace all other taxes -- is possible.
PRoblem is, the rate would be 60% -- or higher. That came from the Joint Commission on Taxation, a study done at request of President Bush.
But Fairtax claims it would only be 23% --- how? Because Fairtax lies to dumb ass people and tell them they can put a huge sales tax on the government, and get money that way.
That's just one of their lies. Its a bunch of crap.
FairtaxFraud 2 years ago
I think everybody is on to you now Mark. Why don't you give it a break and move on to something else? Using multiple names and the same arguments is a dead give away. Get used to the FairTax, it's coming and your little bullshit arguments aren't going to stop it or change anybody's mind.
NAGGERNUTZ 2 years ago 2
Yes, its BS. Let Huck tell this nonsense to someone whose child gets luekemia, and has 50,000 dollars in SALES taxes, just on the medical cost. Let Huck explain to renters who would have to pay 3-5 thousand a year, just in sales tax on their rent. Some poor bastark could rent, have high medical cost, and owe much higher taxes than they have income. Course, Huck won't tell the morons that truth.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
I read the Fairtax book -- four times. Its a complete farce. Its bogus nonsense. The math is wacko. Its magic beans. Just ONE farce - it pretends to get MOST of the taxes FROM the government. Thats right you idiots, MOST of the tax money, the GOVERNMENT will pay ITSELF. It's dumber than hell.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
mark it's bs. religious fundamentalist hillbillies back this redneck shyster because he used to be a pastor. mill, smith, hayek, friedman, and keynes all supported income taxes even though they disagreed over whether it should be progressive, negative, or flat.
freakazoidodo 2 years ago
I love the fair tax! I wonder if Ron Paul supports it?
alex3914 2 years ago
No, Ron Paul is NOT one of the co-sponsors. He fails it's not good enough. He wants to eliminate taxes. However, we was asked if he'd approve the fairTax f he was president, and said yes he would. Bottom line: Ron Paul won't settle for the FairTax, because it's just one step toward downsizing the government. So far I haven't heard of a plan that will downsize the government BEFORE we get the FairTax, though.
urgener 2 years ago
HUGE Fair Tax Rally April 11, 2009 in Cola., SC. Gov. Huckabee, Neal Boortz and John Linder will all be there. Plan to attend. Giant crowds will convince the politicians we are serious about getting this passed into law!! See you there.
nrobyar 3 years ago
The Fair Tax sounds cool, but how the heck are you going to keep people from buying crap from overseas or from accross the border and having it shipped. I don't see why you would bother to buy anything from your local guys when you could get it free off shore. What are they going to do about that, shift all the IRS jobs to have people poking around in every package that comes into this country to find out if it has been taxed? Seriously.
sgiff 3 years ago
I think the time has come for a black man or women, simply to overshadow this which is the issue at large.
vacant719 3 years ago
What does that have to do with this? Why can't we elect a black man, a woman, a hispanic, an asian, a white guy, etc. because they're the right person for the job?
clscurlock 3 years ago 3
I'm for the fair tax plan. But,it will never pass. Why? It is too simple.Our politicians have to make everything real complicated and full of loop-holes. Also, as the saying goes, the more one makes, the more one spends. Politicians don't like this.
mahaffey8 3 years ago 3
We just have to demand it and elect those politicians who believe the way we do instead of the traditional status quo.
clscurlock 3 years ago
Well, then. You must be very rich, very poor, or very stupid.
TarkinRocher 3 years ago
WE are the ones who can get this passed. Call your state reps. and let them know you want THE FAIR TAX. I let Lindsey Graham know I voted democrat for Senate this yr. because Bob Conley (the dem) was for FAIR TAX and Graham was not.
nrobyar 3 years ago 2
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It's not really debateable, the numbers show (including supporters' own research, see links) that this tax would raise the taxes of the middle classes while lowering the taxes of the wealthy tremendously (sources: CBO, Table 1A, tinyurl 3gudvf, and fairtaxorg/BHI, Table 9, tiny 67cyeq
Diskwin 3 years ago
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Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT/Excise:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Even with the prebate, the "Fair" Tax hammers the middle class, not-for-profits, religious groups, and senior citizens living on savings
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings, and churches/religious groups, and not-for-profits, et cetera) would be devastated.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT/Excise:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Even with the prebate, the "Fair" Tax hammers the middle class, not-for-profits, religious groups, and senior citizens living on savings.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings, and churches/religious groups, and not-for-profits, et cetera) would be devastated.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT/Excise:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Diskatopia 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings, and churches/religious groups, and not-for-profits, et cetera) would be devastated.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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This nutty tax idea is a major reason Huckabee is out of the race.
If he supports this crackpot idea, it shows that he has not bothered to think it through... or he prefers taxing the middle classes, seniors, and churches, etc., more while cutting the taxes of the extremely wealthy.
Jumping on a tiny "grassroots" (lol, paid for by... look it up) movement without researching it is beyond foolhardy.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT/Excise:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Diskatopia 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings) would be devastated.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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This nutty tax idea is a major reason Huckabee is no longer a threat in the race.
If he supports this crackpot idea, it shows that he has not bothered to think it through... or he prefers taxing the middle classes, seniors, and churches, etc., more while cutting the taxes of the extremely wealthy.
Jumping on a tiny "grassroots" (lol, paid for by... look it up) movement without researching it is beyond foolhardy.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Diskatopia 3 years ago
youdebate dot com slash debates slash tax_national_sales dot htm
Is the national sales tax the fairest plan?
YES = 80.12%
NO = 19.88%
denimblueindigo 3 years ago
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Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Diskatopia 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This nutty tax idea is a major reason Huckabee is no longer a threat in the race.
If he supports this crackpot idea, it shows that he has not bothered to think it through... or he prefers taxing the middle classes, seniors, and churches, etc., more while cutting the taxes of the extremely wealthy.
Jumping on a tiny "grassroots" (lol, paid for by... look it up) movement without researching it is beyond foolhardy.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings) would be devastated.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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You can feel like the middle class pays most taxes all you want, but the numbers don't lie, under an FT/NST, the middle classes pay much more:
Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Now... look and see-- which of these is greater than 23%, and will thus get a taxcut under an FT/NST?
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Mike: Said the bible that is Jesus Christ who put presidents (kings) over all the countries in the world today, said the Bible.
osotoron 3 years ago
YES YES AND YES.... send this to everyone on your i.m. friends list. Vote FAIR TAX
LILGEO3 3 years ago
Go Huckabee
Fair Tax!
1lowhit 4 years ago
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You just stay here and spam these video's Disky! I'm sure you'll reach all of 6 people! Ha ha ha ha ha!
Looks like you're getting really obsessed with these rantings.
denimblueindigo5 4 years ago
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Listen to the ignorance (or duplicity) of Huckabee, claiming that churches and non-profits will be better off under an FT/NST because they won't have to worry about losing their tax-exempt status under an FT/NST, LOL!
Ahh, yess, Mr. Huckabee, they won't have to worry BECAUSE THEY WILL ALREADY HAVE LOST THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS, paying national sales tax on purchases of goods and services. Whether they will be better off or worse off hinges on their current/future wage costs.
"Fair"Tax=FAIL
Diskatopia 4 years ago
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Reposted, in order--
So now that I have shown that there are two ways to look at the situation, individually (as income taxes and FICA) or as an average across the whole("embedded taxes"), and that if one accepts the concept of "embedded taxes" one has to accept that the FT/NST is a "pimp windfall," let's take a look at the individual situation re:"pimps"...
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
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When looking at it as the individual, clearly the "pimp" pays no FIT or FICA taxes now, obviously. But, guess what-- it is STILL a pimp windfall under the FT/NST even when looking at the pimp as PAYING NOTHING NOW!
Let's first understand the concept of "consumption power (CP)"-- if you make $100takehome now and milk is $5, your power is 20milks. If milk goes up to $10, your CP is 10milks. If your takehome wages then increase to $200takehome, your CP is 20milks.
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
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Now let's look at the "pimp" under FT:
Assume Pimp charges $50 for his "product" now and milk is $5. Pimp's current CP=10milks
In the first situation, we assume prices stay the same under anFT/NST.
Obviously pimp's CP is still 10 milks, + he gets a prebate, resulting in a "pimp windfall"...
but how can this be, since 23% of what the pimp pays is now sales tax?
For prices to STAY THE SAME, takehome pay must also.
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
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If your takehome pay is $80 of $100gross before the imposition of an FT (16milks CP), and $80takehome/gross (still 16milks CP) AFTER imposition of an FT/NST (necessary to keep prices the same), in effect YOU are paying the pimp's taxes still, through lower gross pay.
So his consumption power stays they same, and so does yours, and it is the same CP as now.
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
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I'll leave it to the educated among you to work through the situations if prices go up or if prices go down, just remember that the pimp's product price is essentially tied to prices, and fluctates the same (generally following CPI), and that if prices go up and the pimp pays more, WE ALL pay more.
You will find that the pimp has a windfall no matter which way prices go, because of the prebate.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
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So now that I have shown that there are two ways to look at the situation, individually (as income taxes and FICA) or as an average across the whole("embedded taxes"), and that if one accepts the concept of "embedded taxes" one has to accept that the FT/NST is a "pimp windfall," let's take a look at the individual situation re:"pimps"...
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
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When looking at it as the individual, clearly thew "pimp" pays no FIT or FICA taxes now, obviously. But, guess what-- it is STILL a pimp windfall under the FT/NST even when looking at the pimp as PAYING NOTHING NOW!
Let's first understand the concept of "consumption power (CP)"-- if you make $100takehome now and milk is $5, your power is 20milks. If milk goes up to $10, your CP is 10milks. If your takehome wages then increase to $200takehome, your CP is 20milks.
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
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Now let's look at the "pimp" under FT:
Assume Pimp charges $50 for his "product" now and milk is $5. Pimp's current CP=10milks
In the first situation, we assume prices stay the same under anFT/NST.
Obviously pimp's CP is still 10 milks, + he gets a prebate, resulting in a "pimp windfall"...
but how can this be, since 23% of what the pimp pays is now sales tax?
For prices to STAY THE SAME, takehome pay must also.
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
You just stay here and spam these video's Disky! I'm sure you'll reach all of 6 people! Ha ha ha ha ha!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Boy, this FairTax is really gonna suck for you isn't it Disky? You may even have to give up your food stamps and welfare check and get a job. We have another big mall event this weekend. We had upwards of 3000 new people there supporting the FairTax. I'll bet this weekend will be even bigger!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
The FT/NST is often pushed with the idea that "you can control how much you pay in taxes," so llet's look at this claim.
Who can most easily avoid taxes by buying very expensive "used' real estate, or "used factories" or castles in Germany? The very wealthy, of course. Clearly the wealthy will pay less in taxes under an FT-- mathematically they automatically get at least an 11% rate reduction (26 v. 23%). Where is this money made up to keep the tax revenue neutral?
(continued )
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Clearly the FT "reveneue neutral" rate is mandated by consumption, and supporters state that consumption rates are steadier than income. So even if consumption is steady, and the wealthy consume exactly the same under the FT/NST, where do the taxes needed to make up their lower rates (again, 23 v. 26%)?
Looking at the current total effective tax rates of the middle classes, we see that the taxes are made up by them-- because 23% is greater than 10-21%.
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
So what happens if all classes start legally avoiding the tax (saving more, buying "used") and consumption starts to drop? Clearly, to remain "revenue neutral" the rate would have to be increased. And as the rate is increased, the all classes try to avoid more... but which class can avoid the most, which class has the most disposable income to do with as they wish (like saving)? Clearly, the wealthy. Clearly, the middle classes bear the burden of much of the tax avoidance the wealthy partake of.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Hopefully at this point one or two fans out there are starting to think, starting to analyze the idea of supposed "embedded tax costs" and why it was created by Boortz et al.
One step is realizing that FIT and FICA and matching FICA are, in reality, wage and labor costs for comapanies, and that the amounts are different %ages of COGS for different companies, understanding that 23% is just an average--
when you start thinking about it in this way...
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
ou start to see the reason WHY the backers want most people to think about it as 23% average rather than what it really is (different for every company): in this way people who only have 0-15% of their wages paid in as taxes won't question how a 23% FT rate is obviously worse for them, because they are made to think that they are paying 23% in everytrhing they buy... when clearly they are not, THOSE AMOUNTS ARE FROM OTHER FOLKS WAGES, and are a business WAGES/LABOR cost, not "embedded taxes."
Diskatopia 4 years ago
A simple way to see this is to realize that you cannot claim you pay income taxes AND 23% embedded tax costs in everything you buy, as OTHERS claiming the same thing about supposed "embedded taxes" from YOUR employer leads to all the tax revenue being counted TWICE, by the person whose wages the taxes came from AND by those buying the product with the supposed "emb. taxes."
These supposed "embedded taxes" (an average)can be analyzed in a general way, but cannot be applied to the individual.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
I guess the FairTax is just gonna suck for you then. On Saturday our FT support groups set up tables in two of the larger shopping malls. We had computers set up with internet connections courtesy of Radio Shack. B Dalton & Waldenbooks both had ordered extra copies of the FT book and sold out! We had people writing their congressmen from our computers! We had crowds around our tables! It was a huge success. I'm sure we picked up upwards of 3000 new supporters. With not one negative comment!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Is the FT/NST "progressive" or "regressive"? Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
Those who undertand what this means now understand what a bad idea the FT/NST is.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
It is easy to look at the numbers and see the fraud the backers of the FT/NST are trying to pull-- raising the taxes of the middle class while lowering the taxes of the very wealthy.
Huckabee is either a dupe, or in on the scam.
Some obvious truths:
1)The FT/NST does not "tax the underground" any more than they are taxed now if one agrees with the supporters' concept of "embedded taxes"
2)Estate & capital gains taxes are not "embedded tax costs"
3)"revenue neutral" FT= middle pays more
Diskatopia 4 years ago
today: we are paying a tax on income and payroll then paying for it again at the register under embedded taxes (which you dispute). Sure pimps etc pay an embedded tax, but they aren't helping on the income or payroll portion. Don't try to pretend we forgot that part
jfrofree 3 years ago
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That is absolutely not true... YOU CANNOT CLAIM WE PAY THE SAME TAXES TWICE. Assume you buy something YOUR EMPLOYER makes... are you paying the alleged "embedded taxes" on the part which is due to the taxes FROM YOUR PAYCHECK. Of course not. If you do not understand the math, get someone to explain it to you.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
When I said "we are paying a tax on income and payroll then paying for it again at the register under embedded taxes" it was poorly worded. We do not pay an income tax twice, we foot the bill once the business isn't going to charge us again. You're right.
What I was getting at is that we're in essence paying a tax again at the register. I'll clarify in the next post
jfrofree 3 years ago
embedded taxes exist as taxes the business has to pay for simply being a business and having employees. To say a business is not incorporating that into their final price would be naive, and saying businesses don't pay taxes would be too. I hope you understand that and you were just taking advantage of my poor wording to make embedded taxes sound made up.
jfrofree 3 years ago 3
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You can only look at taxes one way at a time to make a valid argument-- either as a part of your wages that are removed in the specific, or as embedded taxes in the general way.
If you consider taxes as "emebedded" in prices rather than as removed from wages, 3 things are indisputable facts:
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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1)Pimps, criminals, and illegals would not paymore under an FTNST-- taxes are "embedded" in all they buy, that is your claim.
2)the 23% rate was calculated by ALSO removing estate and corporate taxes, and these are clearly not "embedded" in prices, as is seen by considering a business with a loss.
3)Depending on the amount of wages, a business would have different percentages of "embedded" taxes. So those with less than 23% (most-- remember #2 above) will raise prices under an FTNST.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
why is it illogical to say we pay more than what's in our check? Yes we get our taxes removed from our income. The businesses have other taxes that must be accounted for so they factor them into their price. That increase in price, while not a direct tax, equates to us paying those taxes for them.
jfrofree 3 years ago 2
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Because you are still counting the same money TWICE.
First you are saying the employee is paying it from his wages (this is the correct way-- it is a WAGE cost for the business, not a tax cost), then you are saying that the customer is paying the the monies again-- he is not, it's the same money, it's linear--
customer money goes to business, business pays (or has paid) some as wages to employee, employee receives wages (part of same money, see) and pays some to gov. (continued)
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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To see, let's take the fav example of FTers, and assume that employers pay employees their current gross wages if an FT is in effect:
Does the employer have less cost? Slightly, from no matching FICA-- maybe 1-4% of retail prices.
Has the cost of the product changed to customer? answer: yes, goes UP because of the sales tax added on (ex:.96 + .23*.96>1)
Employee have more money? Yes,tax is not taken from his wages,it is shifted to the customer. But HE is a customer, facing higher prices also.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
I would like to point out that if you believe the extremely wealthy who have the highest income and payroll tax bracket actually pays that much, you are mistaken. How many of them do you believe pay a payroll tax in the first place? They are the ones with power, they simply transfer the bill to the middle class and poor. The key to eliminating many advantages these individuals have is through the simplicity and clarity the FT brings
jfrofree 3 years ago
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It is not a belief, it is a fact from governmental data.
Are you actually foolish enough to believe that a SALES TAX will tax them more, especially when it is 23% as opposed to the 26% average they pay now the math is very simple, do it and get back to me.
THe "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
We need to get on the same page. I was talking about a payroll tax and the extremely wealthy. I doubt there are many people who are considered extremely wealthy who earn wages...
You are right, they pay the most in income taxes by far. However, when you factor in payroll taxes the middle class gets it in the rear.
You can't deny the influence the top 1% has on our government. If they truly don't want to pay something, they find a way around it.
jfrofree 3 years ago
Of course no Democrat would ever support it. Tax and spend is their mantra. Social programs that require lots of taxes. They want the power to tax citizens into oblivion. And as far as McCain is concerned, he seems very interested in the FairTax. If I were a betting man, I say he'd sign the bill if it gets to his desk. He's already acknowledged the groundswell of support.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
My grandmother is a diehard democrat and supports the Fairtax. Most Repblican politicians these days are hardly conservative when you look at their rediculous spending habits.
The Fairtax is just logical, and I think logic+ a need for reform goes beyond party lines
jfrofree 3 years ago
By now, hopefully, those with open minds are starting to see the many problems that the FT/NST creates, and how it is a Very Bad Idea.
It would hammer the middle classes with a tax increase while making not just April 15th a tax day, but every day of the year tax day, bleeding the middle classes dry one drop at a time.
Luckily, McCain will be the Republican nominee, and he will likely not support the FT/NST if elected, and of course no Democrat nominee would ever support it.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Thanks for that info Disky. It'll probably be on the front page of USA Today for tomorrows issue. Americans will be forever indebted for you spamming this video! Oh wait! CNN just reported: "Nerd dismantles FairTax on YouTube"! Wow, you did it Disky! You reached America!
FAIL
What a L-L-L-L-L-Loser!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
you want to drive an FT/NST suporter to think, ask how Social Security could be disbursed under an FT/NST.
"Employers will report your income," they will say.
To which I reply:
"Sweeet," all the pimps will say, "now we can report our self-employment 'income', and since there is no way to disprove, make up the amounts, reporting much higher than we make to ensure more SS$ when we retire. Pimp windfall!"
The "Fair" Tax-- every pimps' dream form of taxation.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
If social security is disbursed based on how much income you've made or are making there is a serious issue there.
If the Social Security should be disbursed simply as a security to ensure the basic necessities of life
You also speak as though you can't lie under our current system.
jfrofree 3 years ago
For another example of many "Fair Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTI" fans blatant disregard for the truth, look at their claim that it has "non-partisan support."
Their definition of "non-partisan" seems to be that if even 1 Democrat is for it it is 'non-partisan" -- lolFAIL.
Just look at the "Taxation Scorecard" on AFT's own site to see just how extremely partisan the FT/NST support/opposition is.
It lowers taxes for the uber wealthy, so you guess which party suports it.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
If it lowers taxes for the wealthiest, my assumption is that both sides of the political elite support it...
back to reality, I have a mailing list full of mostly liberals who support this movement. For me, this is an indicator that people crave change and that this reform makes sense to both sides.
jfrofree 3 years ago
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I guarantee they are just gobbling up the soundbites without looking at the math.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Currently, the highest quintile pay an effective federal tax rate of 26.5%, pay 64% of all federal tax liabilities. If we assume their taxes are 23% inder an FT/NST (i.e., they spend essentially 100% of their annual income on taxed items), the amount of taxes they pay in has been reduced by 13%.
This 13% of 64% they pay now is 8.3% of all federal taxes, which has to be made up by the bottom 80% of taxpayers.
They pay 36% of fed taxes, and adding the 8.3% increases their tax rate 25%.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Oh Disky. Poor little failure in life. I don't offer evidence to you because, after all, who are you but a little nerd with nothing else to do but spam FairTax video's? I go to the FairTax meetings, I write my elected officials, I campaign. So tell me Disky, if it's so wrong, why are you not doing anything to keep it from passing? You think America comes to see what you have to say here on YouTube? Let's hurry up and get to YouTube so we can see what Disky's advice is!
Diskatopia = BIG FAILURE!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
See denim keep blathering yet offering no evidence... because he hasn't looked at the math (wonder if he STILL thinks the prebate would be based on income,lolFAIL), he just wallows in his jealous ignorance. Notice how he avoids answering ANY of the points made against the tax. Because... he can't. He is the typical prole dupe the AFT backers are looking for-- "to he** with the math or logic, Chuck Norris thinks it's a good idee!"
According to most economists--
the "Fair" Tax is Fail.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Yeah, sad thing though... not too many people on the fence. How about that Republican debate video Disky? Wonder why 7 out of 8 candidates either outright supported FairTax or supported some form of flat or consumption tax or no tax at all? Yeah, we're all crazy and you're the only sane one alive Disky. Boy, it must be nice on your planet.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
I think by now those on the fence about this tax can see who is educated on it and provides numbers and facts (opponents), and who is not and engages in endless ad hominem and cultism (most supporters).
"Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Poor ignorant denim, hasn't heard of computers for data manipulation and record storage.
And look as his jealousy has him imagining all his opponents live in trailers (he seems to know a lot about trailers, hmmmm). He keeps imagining my old office at my rental was my whole house lol. I'll just laugh all the way to retirement as in my neighborhood houses have increased in value 300-400% in the last 10 years.. shame I have two such houses (kaching).
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Disky, I apologize for assuming you live in a trailer. Sorry. I watched your little gay tee shirt fashion show... with that really old dilapidated house in the background. Yep, you sure look like a financial success. A man who has so many tee shirts must have struck it rich! And those top-of-the-line eye glass frames! Those must have really set you back at least, what, $25.00? So stylish and successful! Well, I'm impressed! No wonder nobody pays any attention to you.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Poor little Disky! I've caught him in so many lies. He doesn't think about what he's saying and he forgets what he's said before. Trying so desperately to get some attention. First he says he's in business and employs people, then he says he doesn't keep but a small shoe box of tax records. The 1st lie. Then he says he has a 350k house, but in the pictures on his YouTube page, there is an unmistakable trailer, with cheap looking furnishings and piles of junk. 2nd lie. More to come. Stay tuned!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you Disky. I went to my local FairTax, Kool-Aid drinking meeting. My congressman was there. He supports the FairTax. How many meetings have you gone to Disky? Oh, that's right, you don't do anything constructive to help your cause... you just comment on one or two video's on YouTube. ROFLMAO!!!! What a L-L-L-LOSER!
By-the-way Disky, my congressman says that more of his colleagues are starting to become more interested in FairTax. 100 cosponsors by May!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Translating what Disky is saying:
"I have no experience, I have no qualifications, I have no education, My life has been a failure, I know about as much about the economy as my dog... but please everybody, I really am smart. Just because my life is a failure and I live in either a trailer or a really junked up house, I really am smart. I can't help it that nobody ever picked me to be on their team. It really hurt my feelings, so if you'll listen to me now, it'll make me feel better."
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Translating what denim is spewing:
"I will never admit I am wrong, even when I clearly am. I prefer ad hominem to facts. I have read nothing and no numbers about FT/NST but I think everyone who has is wrong. I want to pay a lot more in taxes, because then I won't have to keep a box of papers and do some simple addition every year. I don't care if they won't be able to disburse Social Security funds accurately under FT/NST. Yes Huckabee, I will drink the 'Fair' Tax Kool-Aid, tax me more!"
Diskatopia 4 years ago
You're starting to sound really sad Disky. You've proven that you haven't read HR 25 or the FairTax book. If anyone's whining little man, it's you. Ignoring the groundswell of support and the members of congress who've signed on to either cosponsor the bill, or support it. You're twisted little narrow mind is in such a turmoil! Poor Disky, a failure at life. No credentials, no experience... why doesn't anyone want to hear poor little Disky's numbers? Here's a clue... nobody cares to hear you!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Again, we see how fans like denim continually avoid the facts and run off on minor tangents, cultishly holdong on to disnegenuous soundbites while never looking at the numbers, never answering questions posed to them but throwing up straw men.
"Fair" Tax? LOLFAIL.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Your starting to sound desperate now Disky. I don't care what your twisted take on the FairTax is. I don't think anyone else is either. Maybe if you had some type of credentials... maybe. But here's this little nerd that spams YouTube FairTax video's with nothing else to do. No accounting degree, no economics degree, no more experience than the average person. I still want control over my taxes, no matter how many times you come back and slam it or me.
Diskatopia? LOL FAILURE!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Keep whining while ignoring the numbers-- still think the prebate is based on income, lol? You clearly know next-to-nothing about this lame FT/NST, and are just spouting to cover your ignorance. Maybe one day you or your wife will read up on it and find out the facts... but at this point I doubt it, you will just act like the average cult-member prole, waiting for the Kool-Aid.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Now I know you don't know what you're talking about! And you CAN'T be in business if all you have is a small shoebox of papers! Ha! You're asking for an audit! You go in to an audit with a small shoebox of records and you're gonna get raked over the coals! My wife keeps Boxes and boxes of tax records for 5 years back! What planet are you on? Disky, you're actually making my case for me! You must be insane!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
You are lol funny in your cultish devotion to a NAtional Sales Tax... wanting to pay much more in taxes and give pimps a windfall prebate just so you won't have to keep a few boxes of papers for a few years.
The "Fair" Tax is Fail.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
You're still lying about your business and who knows what else. Anybody who's in business knows to keep extensive records. If you don't, well, you're pretty brave... or stupid. You can bring up pimps till hell freezes Disky. It gives everyone else the same "windfall" prebate... Fair.
No 1040's, no 1099's, no W2's, no W4's, no receipts. No danger of ever getting audited. No danger of ever having assets seized. Complete control over our taxation.
FairTax is a WINNER! A+++++++!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
See folks, here is a prime example of how denim refuses to see the math-- he STILL doesn't realize that under the FT/NST, no matter what happens to prices, the honest taxpaying middle-class person's purchasing power DECLINES on average because he will be paying a higher effective tax rate (and "whole paycheck" generally equals takehome now), while the pimp's purchasing power increases, because he receives a prebate AND his income change is generally proportional to changes in prices overall.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Another problem with the FT/NSt (there are soo many, they just keep coming to mind lol):
How will social security amounts be disbursed under ft/NST, since their will be no records of amounts paid in by individuals as sales taxes, and no records of individuals levels of income?
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Correction (dammm homonyms):"there"
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Thanks for bringing this point out Disky! I couldn't pay to get such good information! Isn't it great? Americans would no longer have to keep receipts, tax records, and forms from years back... actually no records at all! No filing tax returns! No 1040's, no 1099's, no W2's! April 15 is no longer a source of anger and frustration! Employers would report earnings of employees so the amount of each family's prebate can be determined! You are terrific Disky! Thanks! ROFLMAO!!!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
WOW! You mean I won't have to keep a small shoebox of papers... and the only price to pay is a higher effective tax rate for middle class workers? What a deal!
Lack of records leads to larger non-compliance in taxes.
Oh, so employers will report employees' wages, ehh? Better tell all the FT fans-- seems a lot of them assume that the fedgov WON't get that info-- that is why they SUPPORT the FT/NST.
PS--Earnings has ZERO to do with the prebate.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Dumbass, you miss the whole point of FairTax. The burden of compliance wouldn't be the individual! All the individual has to do is go to the store and make a purchase! Wow, you make this too easy! The burden of compliance would be up to the business. You said you were in business, would you risk your business by not sending in the taxes you collect or worse yet, not even collect the taxes on sales? If a business offers me a cash deal, sure I'll take it, it's not my ass on the line! ROFLMAO!!!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Earnings have everything to do with the prebate! How else would they tell who's under the poverty level and who's not? Everybody gets a prebate, the more you make the less you get. That's for an individual. Married and married with children adjusts the prebate amount. Come on man, this is too easy. You're losing it Disky!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Uhhh...YES EVERYBODY gets a prebate, based on # of SS#s in the household and married/single, not income.
The prebate is the same amount for the single billionaire and the single priest and the single pimp.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
IF you want to see something really funny, check out the recent history of which economists the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" fans have pushed as their economic genius-- pay particular attention to their opinion of Jorgenson in the past and their opinion now, lol.
A lot of their calls-to-authority used to rest on him, but since he, among other ideas, favors or favored more energy taxes and "carbon taxes"-- he fell out of their "go-to-economist-guy" list.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
The root of the problem with many supporters is they think the system is "broken" because they think they have to pay too much (and it is mainly FICA for most of them)-- not realizing that if they make about $30k to $200-$300K a year, they will pay an higher effective rate with the FT/NST.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
No denim, I'll give you a chance: tell us 5 things wrong with income tax that would supposedly be fixed by a national sales tax.
And show your numbers.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Oh Disky! That's good! You can't come up with 5 good things, so you push it off on me? ROFLMAO! Come on Disky, surely such a great YouTube economist can come up with just 5 good things on the current system! Come on Disky, show us how smart you are! Just 5 little bitty things! I can't stop laughing!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
You are the one wanting to change the system to the inane National Sales Tax... it is up to you to establish why this would allegedly be sooooo much better.
Here's one great thing about the curent system: it doesn't screw the middle classes with a higher effective rate like the FT/NST would.
Here's another: the wealthy, who can easily afford it, pay more under the current system than they would under an FT/NST.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Wow, lot's of "sites".. oh wait, they are mostly FT fans blogs and sub-sites of AFT, mostly logrolling the AFT site and referencing mostly Kotlikoff. Such a surprise that that would come up if you Google "Fair Tax,"
lolFAIL.
Meanwhile, here in reality, The New York Times, The Washington Post, CBS News, etc., report that most economists are opposed to the FT/NST. But hey, BillyBob blogging about how the IRS is evil incarnate knows much more about the FT/NST than them big city folks.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
To anyone: Google Fair Tax. Go as deep in the search as you want. Then tell me what you find. I was able to find "maybe", two out of every ten web sites/articles are against FairTax. See who's "cherry picking". I found at least 80 to 90 percent in favor of Fair Tax. But please, don't believe me... show this little nerd what you find.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
You're amazing Disky! I'm "cherry picking"? I'M CHERRY PICKING"? I'd like to know where you find these "legions". So far, the only person you quote is Bruce Bartlett, (ex IRS) with his flawed analysis. Tell you what Disky since I've blown your cover, I'll give you a chance at redemption. You name 5 good things about the current tax system and I'll name 5 Good things about the Fair Tax, and we'll see what the majority of America wants. That's 5 good things Disky, NOT 5 bad things about FairTax.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
There he goes AGAIN.. cherrypicking the handful of economic professors that support this tax (mainly those who think raising taxes on the middle class and lowering them for the wealthy is a good idea-- human nature is not their strong suit, lol) and ignoring the legions of "economic professors" who think the FT/NST is unworkable to "crackpot." Sure, the handful chosen (chosen BECAUSE they PREVIOUSLY supported NST ideas) must be right, the majority of profs against the tax must be wrong. Rigghht.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
I didn't say you were wrong Disky. What I am saying is this: Do we believe some little nerd or do we believe the economists that developed the FairTax from scratch? You say economists from MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Boston University and a list that space here won't allow, are wrong. You said that, didn't you? You accuse me of "cherry picking" my sources. Maybe, but my sources are university economic professors. Aren't they the ones who actually teach economics to the newspaper reporters you quote?
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
See what I mean... guys like this go on about how I am wrong because I don't agree with the MINORITY of economists et cetera who support the FT/NST*, while he ignores the MAJORITY of economists, assuming THEY don't know what they are talking about.
Sources: NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, CBS News, et cetera
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Well then. Let's see. Does anyone want to post numbers for Diskatopia? Does anyone think they'll be able to convince him that he's wrong? Diskatopia already says that tax attorneys, CPAs, economists from MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Boston University, and a list that space won't allow here, don't know what they're talking about. So, is there anyone who wants to post numbers for Diskatopia? I'm sure anyone with half a brain can see the futility in posting numbers for Diskatopia. Get a hobby Disky.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
And my main question remains. Why here Disk? How many people do you think you're going to reach? If you hate the FairTax so much, wouldn't it be much more productive to form your own focus group? Put an ad in the paper... call it "Citizens Against Fair Taxation" or something catchy like that. You'll probably draw all the finest economists, as you claim. Or even go to your local FairTax group meeting and see if they'll debate with you. Take your calculator with you... show them how smart you are.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago