He beat them all in this race. Shame Ovett was not fully fit and Cram too though I dare say if Coe was not in the race Cram would have won and Ovett would have madeit to the podium. He beat them both 500m out. Scott's tactics were poor uncharacteristly so
(Lord Sebastian Newbold Coe, KBE, Baron Coe por Ranmore en el condado de Surrey, desde el año 2000 (Chiswick, Londres, Inglaterra; 29 de septiembre de 1956); atleta británico especialista en pruebas de medio fondo.
Fue campeón olímpico de los 1.500 metros en Moscú 1980 y Los Angeles 1984, batió numerosos récords del mundo y está considerado como uno de los mejores atletas de la historia.
@dan32113 Stop trolling. Show me one piece of written evidence where Peter Coe ever advocated blood doping or EPO. Synthetic EPO didn't exist in Coe's era. It wasn't used by athletes until 92 at the earliest. It was Coe's work through the Sports Council that got blood doping outlawed in 85/86 on his recommendations.
@dan32113 How could Peter Coe be an advocate of it when it didn't exist in its synthetic form when Coe was running!? EPO wasn't used by cyclists and distance runners until the early/mid 90's. Blood doping would have had little if any benefit for an 800m runner, and certainly wouldn't have helped him run 45.5 for a 400m relay. The UK were randomly testing their athletes from c. 1981, long before the IAAF did so from 1989.
@deano27671 Peter Coe wouldn"t of vilified blood doping because it wasn"t illegal then. Cycling has been involved in blood doping in the 1980"s, EPO devolpment came from Italy. You know nothing about cycling, EPO started in early/mid 90"s? thats very funny! Lasse Viren WAS doing it before Coe in early 70"s.
@dan32113 How many more times!? Blood doping that took place in the 70's (only a couple of Finns & Italian distance runners~5 &10k, NOT 800m~ have ever been found to have used it) IS NOT THE SAME as EPO, which is a supplement first discovered in 1985 & wasn't used in cycling until the early 90's, before it made its way to T&F. Blood doping was extremely dangerous &the benefits to 800m (mostly anaerobic) would be negligible. Thats why athletes started using EPO in 90's; safer and more benefit.
@dan32113 Read what it says about Erythropoietin on Wiki. The human hormone was only isolated in 1985 and a synthetic version was approved in the US in 1989. The use of it in athletics was not until the 90's, by which time Coe had retired.
@dan32113 You've just changed the whole argument of what you were earlier saying. There might have been blood doping in the late 70's/early 80's, but it's only been proven to be used by 5k + runners from Finland and Italy. What makes you say Coe did it? Complete speculation. Without specific evidence then you can equally say all runners were blood doping. Coe ran his fastest 1500 in 86 after blood doping was banned, and long before EPO was used in sport, contrary to what you've been saying.
@dan32113 The IOC and IAAF banned blood doping (NOT EPO, as it wasn't used as a synthetic hormone at this point) at the insistence and recommendations of the Coe/Moynihan report of 1985. Coe was one of just 2 athletes (the other was Ed Moses) who was calling for life bans for drug users from 1981. This wasn't a passing comment to a newspaper, but an official speech to the IOC Congress at Baden Baden.
This isn't the behaviour of someone using drugs, especially someone with political aspirations. Any immoral misdemeanors during his athletic career would have been discovered and divulged by the UK press.
It is amazing how Coe got his tactics spot on in both 1500m finals and beat first Ovett and then Cram respectively as well as some other fine athletes. He messed up a few 800m finals although not in 1984 when Cruz was at his peak and Coe recovering to fitness.
According to the timing by deano27671, Seb's first 400 m averaged at 14.725 s per 100 m, then he did 3 x 100 m averaging 14.9 s, then 14.2 s, then 3 x 100 m averaging 14.13333 s, then 14.0 s, then 13.5 s, then 13.0 s, and finally 12.7 s. An awesome machine... Average speeds (m/s): 6.79-6.79-6.79-6.79-6.71-6.71-6.71-7.04-7.07-7.07-7.07-7.14-7.40-7.69-7.87! And again, WHOEVER DISLIKED THIS VID IS A FAGGOT!
I fucking seriously CANNOT imagine running 200 meters in 25.7 s after 1,300 meters!!! OMG, those dudes are inhumanly good! Or, Seb is... The timing says he's gradually got faster and faster and faster and faster in the entire second more-than-a-half (800/1,500). Picture this: USAIN running 200 meters in 19.19 could do the next 200 meters in 23.98 s and STILL become a 400 m WR holder. But HE (THE runner of our time) CANNOT do 200 m in 24 s after "just" 200 m. Seb did 25.7 after 1,300 m ages ago!
The british are coming, the british are coming. Seriously, why the hell do we run 1500 meters? I realize that most of the world is metric, but can't we just run the damn mile from now on. Almost everyone is familiar with mile times, but not too many people know what a good 1500 time is. And why just run 3.75 laps? Why not complete 4?
Seb was great in LA, I was there. But lets not forget that half the countries of the world did the boycot. I bet lynn williams still wakes up at night and knows she got away with one.
@MrSub4 To be fair though, the absence of the Eastern block didn't effect this or any of the men's middle distances. I'd go as far as saying the 800m especially, was probably the highest quality in depth of any Olympics and Coe's series of 7 races in 9 days the greatest display of sustained quality over such a short period, ever.
This was one of the fastest 1,500-metre races ever in the major international championships. Ten runners broke 3:40.
Too bad that Steve Scott wasn't in peak shape in this race, otherwise the struggle for the medals would have been even more exciting. Sebastian Coe ran fantastically, given that in 1983 he had been so sick with glandular fever and other health problems. Steve Cram overcame an early-season injury. Abascal placed reliably third.
That may be true over 1500m/Mile, but certainly not over "middle distance". The traditional middle distances are 800m, 1000m, 1500m and Mile. While EL G's achievements may put him at NO 1 all time at 1500, he did nothing at 800m, so cannot be the greatest "middle distance" runner of all time. Coe, Snell & Ovett would all be above him, as they actually did things at both distances.
@EltBerserker I would say that you compare two different periods. You can't compare EPO-loaded El Guerrouj et al. with guys from the eighties, whose only doping method was blood transfusion.
@YiftertheShifter1 Early in his career, he was also being coached by aiouta who is still an adviser to many top moroccans. A few athletes have come forward saying aiouta tried to convince them to dope. Just sayin. 75% el g was doped.
@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx He was a team manager, not a coach. Please specify which drugs El G took and give me a creative answer as to how one of the sport's greatest legends was never caught.
@YiftertheShifter1 Well ramzi was caught taking CERA so that's one possible option. Of course, if el g did dope I have no idea what drugs he used. There's also a string chance that he did not dope. But remember, marion jones passed a loooot of tests before she was caught. As did ramzi. Marita koch was never caught but we now know for a fact she was using. Same thing with a couple other east europeans in the 80's. Look at the guy who beat shorter in 76, he was never caught but he was doping.
@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx there's no proof el g was doping, but if I had to bet on a runner that wasn't caught that was doping I would probably cast my vote for el g. My opinion
@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx Well then complain to the IAAF. Or the IOC, since they made El G an honorary member. I personally hope I'm not wrong, but nothing suggests that. Other than El G's greatness as an athlete.
First, CERA wasn't developed until 2008, way after El G retired. Second, Marion Jones' performances greatly deteriorated after 2000, when EPO tests came out, while El G's were as good as before. There were EPO tests during the 2004 Olympics- El G won twice... and no positive test. Marita Koch retired way before the modern era of drug testing, so she doesn't count. Evidence exists that the East German athletes had a systematic PED system- no evidence for El G exists, other than his performances.
@YiftertheShifter1 - You're right about CERA. As for Marion Jones, it's unlikely EPO had any effect on her performances; they're really not geared for sprinters. She has also admitted to taking various other PEDs, including HGH. Your thoughts on Koch are a little misleading. They did have testing at major champs and for World record performances, and people were caught during this period. The thing is that each federation had their own testing system.
The IAAF only started random testing out of competition in 1989. Before that it was down to national federations, which varied greatly. Obviously the likes of the GDR would have tested their athletes constantly, in order to make sure there were no traces in their systems when they'd be tested at the major champs. Lol. However, in the UK they were randomly testing their elite athletes out of competition from 81 and out of season (i.e any time of the year) from 1985.
Even today, many poor countries do not test their athletes randomly out of competition or out of season. Thus they are under less scrutiny that UK athletes (and probably some others too) were in the early 80's. It is left to the IAAF to test the world's elite across the globe. How often that works out in practise I don't know.
Always feel a bit sorry for Crammie here. He was the best miler in the world from 82 to 87 but the 84 season was wrecked by injury. Shame he never managed to stay fit in the Olympic years.
He was one of the best during that period, but didn't really become undisputed best until the 85 season. Even then, Aouita was unlucky not to have beaten him in Nice. It's interesting to note that Cram did not end any season as the fastest 1500m runner in the world between 82 and 87 inclusive. Certainly he was past it in 87 when beaten by Gonzales and then Bile in the Worlds.
@deano27671 I messed up a bit with the splits. They are mostly correct except his 1st lap was 59.0 and his 2nd 400m was 57.9 NOT 58.9.
So he did speed up from 400m to the end. His 100m splits from 400m to the end were: 15.1, 14.1, 14.5, 14.2 (57.9), 14.0, 14.4, 14.0, 14.0, (56.4), 14.0, 13.5, 13.0, 12.7.
I think he actually was. I remember hearing that the British newspapers were saying how he was a has been, and couldn't win the 84 olympics. So I think it was just his way of showing how he felt haha
No British runner has won the 15 since for a couple of reasons. 1st in this race the UK had Coe, Ovett and Cram. Athletes rarely occur in domestic isolation. Think Walker, Dixon and Quax as example. 2nd North African and Kenyan runners now have access to the training, diet and science which European athletes do. Therefore the funding advantage has been largely lost. 3rd prospective top "speed endurance Athletes" in the UK are choosing football over middle distance running as their sports.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
i don't believe Coe. i think there is something that was not found out about him. How come Britain has never attempted to win this event sine the reign of Coe? They cheated!
Well Coe certainly got tripped at the bell, almost fell, lost 30m on the leader but caught them up and beat them. It was the 1500m AAA final in 1989, in which a "well past it" Ovett was also running. I don't think it's on Youtube, but it was a phenomenal last lap. He ran about 51 for it. This was the year after the BAAB, in their infinite wisdom, declared Coe was past it and didn't select him to run in Seoul.
Yes I remember it well awesome last lap he overtook the entire field after giving them a head start. It was this victory that got him selected for the comonwealth games and the world cup in 1989 if I'm not mistaken.
You are kidding!? He won by a mile. Coe's basic speed (400 & 800 ability) was superior to anyone else's in the race, so if it was slower he'd still have had the best kick. He won a similar timed race (3:32) about 10 days later in Zurich, where he was at the front with a lap to go, with Abascal and Scott right behind him. He led for the entire lap and won by over a second. You don't know what you're talking about.
You are spot on. I think there are more people talking bollocks on youtube than anywhere else. The sort of idiots who would get battered in the pub for talking crap.
or early summer of 1984. Coe had totally recovered from his health problems of
1983. Abascal turned in a solid performance, but that only sufficed for the bronze medal. He managed to keep Chesire behind him. This was a high-quality race: ten runners broke 3:40 and
His world records are all gone. The times are ridiculously fast now...some of them are probably "dirty records". But Coe's winning time from 1984 in the Olympic Final is still respectable as too many races now are tactical with a big kick (and a slow overall time). I wonder what he could have done against today's competition? Who knows?
No! At 800m he is still the 2nd fastest ever. His best time has improved by 0.6, but Kipketer's time was run on a faster "mondo" track, which is between 0.2 & 0.3 secs faster per lap. His is also 2nd fastest ever at 1000m (0.2 behind current WR). Only 1 person in each event has run faster in almost 30 years! He is no. 15 at 1500m & 9 at 1 Mile, though 2 of those above him at 1500 have been busted for PEDs since & you can bet many more at those distances were using EPO in the late 90s.
obviously your american, and just because you think your country is the best in the world you cant take that fact britain can produce better runners then any other, he did not take drugs, i have seen his training programme. These men are the pride of britain
u may be 44 but ur still acting like a spoilt little kid who cant get his way. for the last time, coe was NOT on drugs and anyway, this page is not a doping forum so take your shit elsewhere if theres even somewhere that will accept it.
I wonder if you had a time machine and put Coe (circa ' 84 ) in it and he took on El G in the early 2000s. Would he be able to stay with him? His last 100 was too good. I'm not a Coe fan, but his kick was awesome. You need speed - even 10,000m runners are good over 1500m nowadays.
Coe was capable of 3:28 no problem between '80-'84. Thats worth about 3:27 on the slightly faster mondo tracks of the late '90's. Of course he'd be able to stay with him , and he'd have outkicked ELG in the homestraight. Look what Straub (who was more than certainly on some thing!) tried to do in Moscow. Coe ran the last 700m at 1:46.5 pace, with each of the last four 100m getting faster. Yet he still had enough to run the last 100m in 12.1!
EL G's fastest last 100m in a Championship race was in the Athens Olympics (13.3). Coe's 12.1 is the fastest last 100m in any Championship 1500m final EVER! It shows he could have run the last lap a second faster and the last 700m two seconds faster if needed.
Not meaning to argue this again, but 1) if Coe was capable... why didn't he? There's a difference between theoretical capability and actually doing it. 2) El G ran the penultimate 100m in 12.7, with the last seven 100m splits getting faster, with him doing all the leading. Yes he slowed in the last 100 meters, but it's usually suicidal leading for over half the race. Just be fair comparing the two...
Yes, I am aware of EL G's splits and of course they are phenomenal. The fact that his last 100m was slower than the penultimate one was due to the fact that he had run his hardest, was flat out and couldn't run any faster in the last 100m. That was the way he (EL G) liked to race and that was his strength, a bit like how Cram used to run; although he left it til the last 300m/400m.
The fact that Coe was able to run a 12.9 curve in Moscow followed by an even faster 12.1 in the straight (off a 1:46 800m pace) shows he had "unused" energy & could have run the last lap or 800 faster if necessary to win. It WASNT necessary, he just needed to follow Straub, who was doing the work for him. Coe, unlike EL G, also knew he had the best basic (400m) speed of anyone in the field, so as long as he was in the right place with 100m to go, his kick would get him past anyone, even Ovett.
EL G had a good kick, but he could never guarantee it would out-kick everyone. Thats why he often used pacemakers to ensure the pace was so fast that evryone's kick would be rendered useless. As for your comment about "if he was capable, why didn't he?", I presume you're talking about running 3:28? Basically it comes down to opportunity & bad pacemaking. E.g in 81 Coe was taken through 400m in 51.5 (Coe 52.4) and 800m in 1:47.5! (1:49.1 Coe), then had to run the last 700m solo. He still ran 3:31
He ran very few 1500m/Miles when he was at his peak between 79-84, and when he did go for a record he was given some dire pacing. He was certainly capable of sub 3:30 when he broke the record in 79, after laps of 54 & 59, then running alone. He asked for 3/4 in 2:48 in '81 but there was no one good enough to take him to that time; he went through in 2:51.9. Mel Watman said he would have run 3:28 in Zurich 80, but the second lap was too slow.
In LA, he said he believed after 700m (1:43.6) he felt so easy he could have taken a long run for home and broken 3:30, but decided to sit & wait & use his kick. He still managed 3:32 and it was his 7th race in 9 days. Of course he missed out on the opportunity of more records when he was ill in 82/83. I'm not saying he would beat EL G every time, but he certainly would have been able to run much faster than he did given the efficient pacing EL G had.
Just look at Coe's 1000m record, which was practically a solo run; why did EL G never have a crack at this? Coe was eventually given some decent pacemaking in 86 when he was 30 & past his best. Yet he managed to run 3:29despite stumbling on the last lap, which caused him to miss Aouita's WR by 0.31. He could have run at least a second faster earlier in his career. I've been down this road countless times before so if you want a more detailed explanation let me know & I'll contact you directly.
Alright, I'm fine with that. Just don't speak so degradingly of other great athletes- that's all I want to say... by the way, what happened to Leothelion? Is his account closed, like Alan81?
I'm sorry if I offended you in some way. I wasn't trying to degrade EL G in my messages, rather I was responding to a question from another poster who asked whether Coe would have been able to live with EL G. I said that (in my opinion) of course he was. Having said that Coe wasn't able to run at his best as often as EL G ran at his.
Perhaps the comment that "he would have outkicked him" was a bit misleading. Certainly at 3:28 pace both athlete's kicks would be pretty redundant. If the pace drifted to over 3:35, as it often does in championship races, then I think Coe's kick would be decisive more often. Having said that, if he wasn't on EL G's shoulder with a lap to go, then forget it,...Coe would be dead! Hope that clears things up.
I have been following your comments. If all this is true - why did Coe, in a good year for him - 1985 - fare poorly when he faced cram over 1500 m when cram broke his WR. I think Coe ran 3.49 that day. Or was 85 really not such a good year for him? He also did badly in the stuttgart 1500m final despite having good legs that year - after all - he ran well in the 800 and ran 3.29 in Rieti - I assume that if cram had been on the track that day he would have run 3.29 dead.
Coe had ongoing injury problems in 85. He missed 3 weeks training in late June/early July due to calf problems & had only run 1 other serious 1500m before facing Cram in Oslo. 85 was meant to be a transition year to 5000m, but the calf injury, followed by a recurring back problem meant he was unable to put in "the solid spell of endurance work" necessary in early summer.
Coe had ongoing injury problems in '85. He missed 3 weeks training in late June/early July & due to calf problems & had only run 1 other serious 1500m before facing Cram in Oslo. 85 was meant to be a transition year to 5000m, but the calf injury, followed by a recurring back problem meant he was unable to put in "the solid spell of endurance work" necessary in early summer.
He had made clear his intent to have a "quiet" year early in 85, after all the stress involved in coming back from injury in early '84 and racing against time to be near peak form for the LA Olympics. He had nothing to prove over 1500m. When he was unable to run the 5000m he wanted to, he decided that he was better to stick with the 800/1500 at the following year's Euro Champs. Yes he was still good enough to run 3:32 and 1:43.07 in '85, but he was not in the form he had been in in '84 or 86
When he ran 3:49 (equivalent to a 3:32 1500)behind Cram he covered the last lap just under 56 sec. In 84 he ran the last lap in his 3:32 Zurich win in 53.0. The reason he didn't win the 1500 in Stuttgart was that he ran a v bad tactical race, not because he wasn't good enough. Cram's last lap was 50.9, running it all in lane 1. Coe's was 51.0, having run the penultimate bend in lane 2 (3.6m further)& wide round some of the last bend. If he'd run just 400m(like Cram) it would have been 50.3.
Coe tripped at the bell & run the last lap alone. If he hadn't he would probably have broken the WR. Coe didn't improve in '86, he was almost 30 & possibly past his best. The fact is he had been capable of running well below 3:30 since '79, but due to poor pacing, lack of races & injury/illness problems, he never got the chance to run to his potential. Anyone capable of kicking like he did at the end of his 3:47 WR, of running a solo 3:31 off 52.4 & 1:49.1 is capable of running at least 3:28.
Seem to recall that coe very rarely ran at 1500 m even in his best years - he seemed to favour the mile - and even then just 2 or 3 in a season such as the legendary 81. Yes hapless pacemaking - I groaned when in brussels and zurich they were taking the 1st lap in about 57 and halhway at 1.53, leaving coe too much to do. He wanted 56s all the way and then a 54 last lap i believe.
Not quite. In Brussels the first lap was a little too quick (55.3 @ 440yds for Coe, = 55.0 for 400m) then the next lap was 58.0! That's very uneconomical. 1:53 at 880yds isn't too bad, but would have felt easier running 2 laps of 56.5. 3rd lap went 58.6 (far too slow) and then he said he waited until the last 100m (13.1) on the last lap before kicking, treating it as first and foremost a race. His last lap was 55.3, though he said had he really gone for it at the bell he would have run 3:46.5.
That would have been a last 440 of 54.6 (54.3 for 400m). If you look at the stats of his 2 Mile records (9 days apart) he actually improved quite a bit. The first 3 laps in Zurich were a bit more even (56.2, 57.4, 58.1) & he was 0.2 faster at 3/4 than in Brussels. But his last lap in Brussels (holding something back) was 1.4 secs faster. Think that shows he just needed to run a few more fast races at the distance to run to his potential. He wanted to run 56, 1:52, & 2:48.
The problems was that there was no one capable at that time of helping him get to 1200m in 2:48, unlike say EL G. If he'd had that pace and Ovett on his shoulder entering the last lap, he would have run under 3:45 IMHO.
As for the 1500m, he made only 1 attempt on the record in 81 and missed it by 0.6. The reason? The pace maker went through 400 in 51.5 (52.4 for Coe) 800 in 1:47.5 (1:49.1 Coe) then dropped out. Coe, not having been given any lap times, ran the last 700m alone & still run 3:31!
The first lap was 3 secs faster than what he wanted to run (& was WR pace for 1000m!) and you can imagine the lactic acid build up after about 1000m. He practically run the entire race in a vacuum, and it had to be worth well under 3:30 (more like 3:28) if he'd had even pacing to 1200m.
I often got the impression with Coe that he was not prepared to push himself to the limit, unlike say, Bannister, who collapsed over the line in his world record. Leaving your final kick to the last 100m of a wr attempt proves that. If you have enough left for a final sprint you haven't really expended your energy evenly in a way that makes a wr attempt truly successful. Cram had the right idea - long sustained kick from 400 m.
I think you're right, especially over 1500/mile. I don't think he ran enough of them in a season to get to know the right pace necessary for a WR. In Zurich he didn't go past Byers until about 1000m, when he should have gone past him at 800m, as he was already slowing. That cost him about a secnd. I think he also lacked a bit of confidence at that stage over 1500 & always wanted to leave something for the last 100 if needed. That was where he was supreme. Cram had to go with 400 to ensure a win.
It's strange, because as shown in Moscow and with some of his WRs, I have no doubt that Coe was capable of doing a long sustained drive a la Cram from 400m out. Although he ran a v. fast last 100m, Cram was actually slowing down in the home straight, whereas Coe was getting faster and faster in the last 100m. As you say, that shows he hadn't expended all his energy.
Strange that Coe treated Brussels firstly as a race - he knew that no one could touch him so only value would be a wr attempt. I also remember Coe saying about brussels beforehand that he wanted to run 3.30 1500 en-route to a 3.45 mile. How old were you in 81? I was 16 and recall most of this with clarity. But your info on splits and analysis is second to none. Where do you get your splits info? How do you know coe's 400 m/440 yds splits in a mile race?
I was 10. I remember watching it and reading all about it in the papers in the weeks before, during and after. I remember that he said he wanted to break the 1500m record en route and put the Mile record "out of sight" for a while. With the right pace and maybe another 1 or 2 attempts, I think he could have done. However, up until a few days before the Brussels race, Ovett was due to run. He only pulled out the week before to run a 1:47 800m in Norway!
I think Coe had a lot of respect for his fellow Milers & knew from Zurich that there were a few capable of running under 3:50. If he'd been given the 2:48/9 at 3/4 as he'd wanted, you can bet Boit wouldn't have been on his shoulder and he'd probably have run all out on the last lap. As it was, the pace didn't go to plan and they went through 3/4 in 2:51.9.
He'd been training with Boit all week in Switzerland and at this point he treated it as a race, as did Cram in Oslo 85. He didn't go for a WR on the last lap, he did what he needed to do to beat Coe. I get my splits from books I have (e.g The Coe & Ovett File from AW, IAAF Progression of WRs book, various others, AW and other mags, and having most of these races on dvd) and after years of looking at them, most I can remember. Thanks for the compliment & I hope this helps. :0)
Yes well Coe and Ovett ducking each other was a major problem for the fans. They could have had some epic struggles - a bit like Ali/Frazier in boxing - plus tumbled many world records - particularly as coe may have thought it better to outrun rather than out-kick ovett. As it is all we have are a collection of disatisfactory races from 2 olympics.
I don't quite agree with you there. I don't think the Olympic races were disappointing, apart from Ovett wasn't able to perform to his best in LA. As for ducking each other, there were 2 occasions in 81 where they could have met; The Dream Mile, when Coe's request to run in that rather than the 1000 was turned down, & the Golden Mile, where Ovett pulled out the week before. They were also due to have that 3 race match in '82, which didn't materialise due to both having injury/health problems.
Then in '83 Coe was ill. So I think it was a mixture of circumstances that prevented it happening after 81, though it looks like Ovett ducked Coe in 81. I think it may have detracted from the mystique and aura they created had they run against each other often, but I agree, had they met in good paced races the World record in the 15 and mile would have come down a lot. I also don't think Coe would feel the need to outrun Ovett in the last lap.
Moscow proved that Coe was quicker over the last 200 in both races, and I would say 1980 was Ovett's best year. Coe improved more from 80 to 81. But I think if they both went with the pace, knowing Ovett was still with him, Coe would try harder and the record would be obliterated.
So you clearly think ovett even at his peak could not beat coe in a fast race. But he overexpended himself in the moscow heats to protect his unbeaten record. I think the moscow 15 would have been very close if he had run wisely in those heats.
No I don't. Ovett ran 3:36.8 & 3:43.1 to qualify compared to Coe's 3:40.1 & 3:39.3, none of which should overextend them! Athletes of that calibre shouldn't have a problem running those times. Coe ran 3:35.8 the day before his LA win & it didn't effect him adversely. They were together entering the straight & Coe went away from him, clocking 12.1 in the final 100m. Ovett never ran as fast as that in any race. Coe should have won both; his last 400 in the 8, run in lane 2, was worth about 49.6.
He beat them all in this race. Shame Ovett was not fully fit and Cram too though I dare say if Coe was not in the race Cram would have won and Ovett would have madeit to the podium. He beat them both 500m out. Scott's tactics were poor uncharacteristly so
rc2869 4 months ago
UN DÍA COMO HOY 29 DE SEPTIEMBRE NACIÓ
1956: Sebastian Coe, atleta británico.
(Lord Sebastian Newbold Coe, KBE, Baron Coe por Ranmore en el condado de Surrey, desde el año 2000 (Chiswick, Londres, Inglaterra; 29 de septiembre de 1956); atleta británico especialista en pruebas de medio fondo.
Fue campeón olímpico de los 1.500 metros en Moscú 1980 y Los Angeles 1984, batió numerosos récords del mundo y está considerado como uno de los mejores atletas de la historia.
BANDIIDO 4 months ago
Grande Abascal!!!!
MrChag313 4 months ago
There is no scandle here. Coe, the greatest 800m of all time, beats in my opinion the greatest miler of all time. Fabulous race.
Daz555Daz 6 months ago
Coe cheated. He was propelled round the track by extreme smugness which he hid inside his trainers.
HitMeQuick 6 months ago
@HitMeQuick he did cheat, blood doping! Peter Coe his trainer was an advocate for it. Lance Armstrong used EPO as well. Coe was juiced baby!
dan32113 6 months ago
@dan32113 Stop trolling. Show me one piece of written evidence where Peter Coe ever advocated blood doping or EPO. Synthetic EPO didn't exist in Coe's era. It wasn't used by athletes until 92 at the earliest. It was Coe's work through the Sports Council that got blood doping outlawed in 85/86 on his recommendations.
Philcher69 6 months ago
@dan32113 How could Peter Coe be an advocate of it when it didn't exist in its synthetic form when Coe was running!? EPO wasn't used by cyclists and distance runners until the early/mid 90's. Blood doping would have had little if any benefit for an 800m runner, and certainly wouldn't have helped him run 45.5 for a 400m relay. The UK were randomly testing their athletes from c. 1981, long before the IAAF did so from 1989.
deano27671 6 months ago
@deano27671 Peter Coe wouldn"t of vilified blood doping because it wasn"t illegal then. Cycling has been involved in blood doping in the 1980"s, EPO devolpment came from Italy. You know nothing about cycling, EPO started in early/mid 90"s? thats very funny! Lasse Viren WAS doing it before Coe in early 70"s.
dan32113 6 months ago
@dan32113 How many more times!? Blood doping that took place in the 70's (only a couple of Finns & Italian distance runners~5 &10k, NOT 800m~ have ever been found to have used it) IS NOT THE SAME as EPO, which is a supplement first discovered in 1985 & wasn't used in cycling until the early 90's, before it made its way to T&F. Blood doping was extremely dangerous &the benefits to 800m (mostly anaerobic) would be negligible. Thats why athletes started using EPO in 90's; safer and more benefit.
Philcher69 6 months ago
@Philcher69 the Italians were behind alot of the EPO advancement in early 1980"s. Google Francesco Conconi
dan32113 6 months ago
@dan32113 Read what it says about Erythropoietin on Wiki. The human hormone was only isolated in 1985 and a synthetic version was approved in the US in 1989. The use of it in athletics was not until the 90's, by which time Coe had retired.
deano27671 6 months ago
@deano27671 rubbish, there was blood doping during Coe"s peak years! The IOC banned blood doping in 1986 which is after his best years!
dan32113 6 months ago
@dan32113 You've just changed the whole argument of what you were earlier saying. There might have been blood doping in the late 70's/early 80's, but it's only been proven to be used by 5k + runners from Finland and Italy. What makes you say Coe did it? Complete speculation. Without specific evidence then you can equally say all runners were blood doping. Coe ran his fastest 1500 in 86 after blood doping was banned, and long before EPO was used in sport, contrary to what you've been saying.
deano27671 6 months ago
@dan32113 The IOC and IAAF banned blood doping (NOT EPO, as it wasn't used as a synthetic hormone at this point) at the insistence and recommendations of the Coe/Moynihan report of 1985. Coe was one of just 2 athletes (the other was Ed Moses) who was calling for life bans for drug users from 1981. This wasn't a passing comment to a newspaper, but an official speech to the IOC Congress at Baden Baden.
deano27671 6 months ago
This isn't the behaviour of someone using drugs, especially someone with political aspirations. Any immoral misdemeanors during his athletic career would have been discovered and divulged by the UK press.
deano27671 6 months ago
why are they moving so slow?
viperdude281 7 months ago
stick that meddle up your arse. Only the rich get London olympic tickets.
SHAME ON YOU TORY SCUM
batttyboi 7 months ago
crazy, coe was the best 1500m runner off a fast pace EVER!!!!!!
theno1singstar 8 months ago 4
the MAN
MultiPlonker 9 months ago
It is amazing how Coe got his tactics spot on in both 1500m finals and beat first Ovett and then Cram respectively as well as some other fine athletes. He messed up a few 800m finals although not in 1984 when Cruz was at his peak and Coe recovering to fitness.
rc2869 9 months ago
According to the timing by deano27671, Seb's first 400 m averaged at 14.725 s per 100 m, then he did 3 x 100 m averaging 14.9 s, then 14.2 s, then 3 x 100 m averaging 14.13333 s, then 14.0 s, then 13.5 s, then 13.0 s, and finally 12.7 s. An awesome machine... Average speeds (m/s): 6.79-6.79-6.79-6.79-6.71-6.71-6.71-7.04-7.07-7.07-7.07-7.14-7.40-7.69-7.87! And again, WHOEVER DISLIKED THIS VID IS A FAGGOT!
jakubkrcma 9 months ago
I fucking seriously CANNOT imagine running 200 meters in 25.7 s after 1,300 meters!!! OMG, those dudes are inhumanly good! Or, Seb is... The timing says he's gradually got faster and faster and faster and faster in the entire second more-than-a-half (800/1,500). Picture this: USAIN running 200 meters in 19.19 could do the next 200 meters in 23.98 s and STILL become a 400 m WR holder. But HE (THE runner of our time) CANNOT do 200 m in 24 s after "just" 200 m. Seb did 25.7 after 1,300 m ages ago!
jakubkrcma 9 months ago
seriously he knows hes beaten cram,hes waiting for ovett to come past him-coe knows who the number one was,and so does ovett...
joemcm1 9 months ago
brilliant,but i love the fact hes still looking for ovett off the final bend-proves to me that ovett was the best of all.....
joemcm1 9 months ago
Better to see the race at normal speed.
MrJuno6 11 months ago
how do you win 2 olympic gold medals in the same event?
musiclover5327 11 months ago
@musiclover5327
Double first? Or what do you mean?
josemourin 10 months ago
La primera medalla en atletismo para el olimpismo español: Jose Manuel Abascal.
conmuchointeres 1 year ago
@brainclough "Surprisingly he never won Olympic gold in his preferred event - the 800m".
I thought he won the 800m in 1984 and the 1500m in 1980 and 1984
coldcallinguk 1 year ago
@coldcallinguk No he got silver in 84
JoshMcRay 1 year ago
The british are coming, the british are coming. Seriously, why the hell do we run 1500 meters? I realize that most of the world is metric, but can't we just run the damn mile from now on. Almost everyone is familiar with mile times, but not too many people know what a good 1500 time is. And why just run 3.75 laps? Why not complete 4?
MikeDunn 1 year ago
i wish i could run like that
luketb100 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Coe is a good name
leafster99 1 year ago
Coe is a good name
leafster99 1 year ago
trouble with Coe was that EVERY time he lost (and there were plenty of times) he had an excuse
cayenneturbot 1 year ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 1 year ago
Seb was great in LA, I was there. But lets not forget that half the countries of the world did the boycot. I bet lynn williams still wakes up at night and knows she got away with one.
MrSub4 1 year ago
@MrSub4 To be fair though, the absence of the Eastern block didn't effect this or any of the men's middle distances. I'd go as far as saying the 800m especially, was probably the highest quality in depth of any Olympics and Coe's series of 7 races in 9 days the greatest display of sustained quality over such a short period, ever.
deano27671 1 year ago
@MrSub4
Just Lynn Williams?
amandaberesford 1 year ago
This was one of the fastest 1,500-metre races ever in the major international championships. Ten runners broke 3:40.
Too bad that Steve Scott wasn't in peak shape in this race, otherwise the struggle for the medals would have been even more exciting. Sebastian Coe ran fantastically, given that in 1983 he had been so sick with glandular fever and other health problems. Steve Cram overcame an early-season injury. Abascal placed reliably third.
Zndwls 1 year ago
Coe was my gratest idol when i was a young boy
poo72 1 year ago 3
Brave run by Ovett despite his illness. True Olympian spirit, it's not so much the winning but the participating that matters more.
Great performance by Coe to retain his title, the only ever time it had been done.
Surprisingly he never won Olympic gold in his preferred event - the 800m.
Thanks for the vid, the 1500m was for a long time, the blue riband event in Olympics Track & Field.
Sadly it's been upstaged by the 100m and 200m, but those were the halcyon days of middle distance running.
brianclough 1 year ago
@PONYBOY430, Try not to get overly excited you mindless old gasbag, this was almost 26 years ago. lol.
Bligh1780 2 years ago
2nd greatest middle distance runner ever (in proportion to his time, 1980's), 1st greatest is el guerrouj (in proportion to his time, present day)
EltBerserker 2 years ago
That may be true over 1500m/Mile, but certainly not over "middle distance". The traditional middle distances are 800m, 1000m, 1500m and Mile. While EL G's achievements may put him at NO 1 all time at 1500, he did nothing at 800m, so cannot be the greatest "middle distance" runner of all time. Coe, Snell & Ovett would all be above him, as they actually did things at both distances.
deano27671 2 years ago
@EltBerserker I would say that you compare two different periods. You can't compare EPO-loaded El Guerrouj et al. with guys from the eighties, whose only doping method was blood transfusion.
centrum99 1 year ago
I'm eager to know how you are so sure that El Guerrouj took EPO. Care to enlighten me?
YiftertheShifter1 1 year ago
@YiftertheShifter1 hes moroccan, his coach was aiouta. aiouta=strong believer in HGH (fact). Personally I dont think HGH even helps. lol...
xxxDAPROBLEMxxx 1 year ago
@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx No, his coach was AbdelKader Kada. At least get that right before making the rest up.
YiftertheShifter1 1 year ago
@YiftertheShifter1 Early in his career, he was also being coached by aiouta who is still an adviser to many top moroccans. A few athletes have come forward saying aiouta tried to convince them to dope. Just sayin. 75% el g was doped.
xxxDAPROBLEMxxx 1 year ago
@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx He was a team manager, not a coach. Please specify which drugs El G took and give me a creative answer as to how one of the sport's greatest legends was never caught.
YiftertheShifter1 1 year ago
@YiftertheShifter1 Well ramzi was caught taking CERA so that's one possible option. Of course, if el g did dope I have no idea what drugs he used. There's also a string chance that he did not dope. But remember, marion jones passed a loooot of tests before she was caught. As did ramzi. Marita koch was never caught but we now know for a fact she was using. Same thing with a couple other east europeans in the 80's. Look at the guy who beat shorter in 76, he was never caught but he was doping.
xxxDAPROBLEMxxx 1 year ago
@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx there's no proof el g was doping, but if I had to bet on a runner that wasn't caught that was doping I would probably cast my vote for el g. My opinion
xxxDAPROBLEMxxx 1 year ago
@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx Well then complain to the IAAF. Or the IOC, since they made El G an honorary member. I personally hope I'm not wrong, but nothing suggests that. Other than El G's greatness as an athlete.
YiftertheShifter1 1 year ago
First, CERA wasn't developed until 2008, way after El G retired. Second, Marion Jones' performances greatly deteriorated after 2000, when EPO tests came out, while El G's were as good as before. There were EPO tests during the 2004 Olympics- El G won twice... and no positive test. Marita Koch retired way before the modern era of drug testing, so she doesn't count. Evidence exists that the East German athletes had a systematic PED system- no evidence for El G exists, other than his performances.
YiftertheShifter1 1 year ago
@YiftertheShifter1 - You're right about CERA. As for Marion Jones, it's unlikely EPO had any effect on her performances; they're really not geared for sprinters. She has also admitted to taking various other PEDs, including HGH. Your thoughts on Koch are a little misleading. They did have testing at major champs and for World record performances, and people were caught during this period. The thing is that each federation had their own testing system.
deano27671 1 year ago
The IAAF only started random testing out of competition in 1989. Before that it was down to national federations, which varied greatly. Obviously the likes of the GDR would have tested their athletes constantly, in order to make sure there were no traces in their systems when they'd be tested at the major champs. Lol. However, in the UK they were randomly testing their elite athletes out of competition from 81 and out of season (i.e any time of the year) from 1985.
deano27671 1 year ago
Even today, many poor countries do not test their athletes randomly out of competition or out of season. Thus they are under less scrutiny that UK athletes (and probably some others too) were in the early 80's. It is left to the IAAF to test the world's elite across the globe. How often that works out in practise I don't know.
deano27671 1 year ago
Always feel a bit sorry for Crammie here. He was the best miler in the world from 82 to 87 but the 84 season was wrecked by injury. Shame he never managed to stay fit in the Olympic years.
Daz555Daz 2 years ago
He was one of the best during that period, but didn't really become undisputed best until the 85 season. Even then, Aouita was unlucky not to have beaten him in Nice. It's interesting to note that Cram did not end any season as the fastest 1500m runner in the world between 82 and 87 inclusive. Certainly he was past it in 87 when beaten by Gonzales and then Bile in the Worlds.
deano27671 2 years ago
steve ovett contributed to the pace. He gave up the medal to allow a country man get the crown.
readerweb 2 years ago
Steve Ovett was sick, he didn't give up a medal.
crwnikeboy 2 years ago 3
Why this slow motion shit?
blaharns 2 years ago 26
This has been flagged as spam show
CALCULATE THE RACE STATISTICS:- electronic athlete system, free javascript statistics calculator, link on my channel page
tietajajoshua 2 years ago
anyone know his splits?
s9061991 2 years ago
Yes. 58.9, 58.9 (1:56.9), 56.4 (2:53.3), 39.2.
His last 800m was 1:49.8, last 400m in 53.2, last 200m was 25.7 and last 100m was 12.7.
deano27671 2 years ago 28
Sorry, made a mistake. Second lap was 58.0 not 58.9.
deano27671 2 years ago
@deano27671 I messed up a bit with the splits. They are mostly correct except his 1st lap was 59.0 and his 2nd 400m was 57.9 NOT 58.9.
So he did speed up from 400m to the end. His 100m splits from 400m to the end were: 15.1, 14.1, 14.5, 14.2 (57.9), 14.0, 14.4, 14.0, 14.0, (56.4), 14.0, 13.5, 13.0, 12.7.
deano27671 9 months ago
There seems to be so many sad things about your subscriber name, "Your Team Sucks989!" Believe me, I give it 2 thumbs down! WAY down!!
pookerville 2 years ago
"Sebastian Coe becomes the first and only men to ever win a gold medal..."
Does anyone know/remember what the announcer was supposed to say next?
josielpontocom 2 years ago
something like:- ..." in consecutive Olympics over the metric Mile."
deano27671 2 years ago
Tks.
I've checked the Olympic Games of 84'
He was the only to win twice in a row the 1,500m race.
josielpontocom 2 years ago
3:28 Looks like he gives the crowed the finger :P Great video tjough ty very much for upploading :D
Hreinn91 2 years ago
I think he actually was. I remember hearing that the British newspapers were saying how he was a has been, and couldn't win the 84 olympics. So I think it was just his way of showing how he felt haha
RiceCrispieTreats 2 years ago
No British runner has won the 15 since for a couple of reasons. 1st in this race the UK had Coe, Ovett and Cram. Athletes rarely occur in domestic isolation. Think Walker, Dixon and Quax as example. 2nd North African and Kenyan runners now have access to the training, diet and science which European athletes do. Therefore the funding advantage has been largely lost. 3rd prospective top "speed endurance Athletes" in the UK are choosing football over middle distance running as their sports.
TheRobsDad 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
You need to get out more you sad cunt!!!You've spent over 2 years trolling on this video!!
Rettamann 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i don't believe Coe. i think there is something that was not found out about him. How come Britain has never attempted to win this event sine the reign of Coe? They cheated!
kingmoraro 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
who was it and in what race did one of these runners seb coe, steve cram or steve ovett get tripped and then get up and win the race?
i think was one of these! please help
chrisdaniels74 2 years ago
Well Coe certainly got tripped at the bell, almost fell, lost 30m on the leader but caught them up and beat them. It was the 1500m AAA final in 1989, in which a "well past it" Ovett was also running. I don't think it's on Youtube, but it was a phenomenal last lap. He ran about 51 for it. This was the year after the BAAB, in their infinite wisdom, declared Coe was past it and didn't select him to run in Seoul.
deano27671 2 years ago
Yes I remember it well awesome last lap he overtook the entire field after giving them a head start. It was this victory that got him selected for the comonwealth games and the world cup in 1989 if I'm not mistaken.
fitzieo1 2 years ago
Yep. Spot on. Shame Bile impeded him with 100m to go in the World Cup and he was ill (again) of course by the time of the Commonwealths.
deano27671 2 years ago
he would never have done it without Abascal attack!!!
munitis1976 2 years ago
You are kidding!? He won by a mile. Coe's basic speed (400 & 800 ability) was superior to anyone else's in the race, so if it was slower he'd still have had the best kick. He won a similar timed race (3:32) about 10 days later in Zurich, where he was at the front with a lap to go, with Abascal and Scott right behind him. He led for the entire lap and won by over a second. You don't know what you're talking about.
deano27671 2 years ago
You are spot on. I think there are more people talking bollocks on youtube than anywhere else. The sort of idiots who would get battered in the pub for talking crap.
gracko14 2 years ago 2
Cheers! Yes, I agree. Hate it when people make comments on things they no little about. A bit of knowledge is a bad thing.
deano27671 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Terrific Coe! You did us all proud!
Ad23051958 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
28 is barely above average for 200m. Saying youcan run it in that time isn't something worth bragging about dude
deco9987 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
what about 25 seconds for a middle distance/long distance runner? Is that worth bragging about
TheFabFoo 2 years ago 2
23.5 in training
deco9987 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
You still posting on here??? Troll boy!!!
Rettamann 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Ovett reportedly suffered from bronchitis,
which reduced his breathing capacity by
forty percent. No wonder he dropped out.
Cram had suffered an injury in the spring
or early summer of 1984. Coe had totally recovered from his health problems of
1983. Abascal turned in a solid performance, but that only sufficed for the bronze medal. He managed to keep Chesire behind him. This was a high-quality race: ten runners broke 3:40 and
six runners broke 3:37. Sorry for Ovett and
Scott.
Zndwls 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
what was he about to say ?" Sebastian coebecomes the first man ever to win the gold medal...." then it cuts off at the end!
redgrayz 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
is there much difference in coes finishing times , compared to todays athletes ??
was coe quicker or have we evolved ?
dominicthebaycolt 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
His world records are all gone. The times are ridiculously fast now...some of them are probably "dirty records". But Coe's winning time from 1984 in the Olympic Final is still respectable as too many races now are tactical with a big kick (and a slow overall time). I wonder what he could have done against today's competition? Who knows?
tommyboy349 2 years ago
No! At 800m he is still the 2nd fastest ever. His best time has improved by 0.6, but Kipketer's time was run on a faster "mondo" track, which is between 0.2 & 0.3 secs faster per lap. His is also 2nd fastest ever at 1000m (0.2 behind current WR). Only 1 person in each event has run faster in almost 30 years! He is no. 15 at 1500m & 9 at 1 Mile, though 2 of those above him at 1500 have been busted for PEDs since & you can bet many more at those distances were using EPO in the late 90s.
deano27671 2 years ago
He would still be a medalist today. His last 100m in Moscow (12.1) hasn't been bettered in any Championship race since.
deano27671 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
wow thats fast for someone ehos just run 1500m of the mile. or 1400 m of the 1500 (i dont know what race type lol)
redgrayz 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
Baldwin880 2 years ago
obviously your american, and just because you think your country is the best in the world you cant take that fact britain can produce better runners then any other, he did not take drugs, i have seen his training programme. These men are the pride of britain
Baldwin880 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrM0j0Risin666 2 years ago
you know when you quit an olympic race, you're pretty tired.
slash7934 2 years ago
u may be 44 but ur still acting like a spoilt little kid who cant get his way. for the last time, coe was NOT on drugs and anyway, this page is not a doping forum so take your shit elsewhere if theres even somewhere that will accept it.
odysseyintime 2 years ago 3
they put it in slow motion!!!
koolkurd82 2 years ago
how are they in the olympics if they're running so slow, its like they're in slow motion.
mattarama15 2 years ago
I wonder if you had a time machine and put Coe (circa ' 84 ) in it and he took on El G in the early 2000s. Would he be able to stay with him? His last 100 was too good. I'm not a Coe fan, but his kick was awesome. You need speed - even 10,000m runners are good over 1500m nowadays.
bootymanager 2 years ago
Coe was capable of 3:28 no problem between '80-'84. Thats worth about 3:27 on the slightly faster mondo tracks of the late '90's. Of course he'd be able to stay with him , and he'd have outkicked ELG in the homestraight. Look what Straub (who was more than certainly on some thing!) tried to do in Moscow. Coe ran the last 700m at 1:46.5 pace, with each of the last four 100m getting faster. Yet he still had enough to run the last 100m in 12.1!
deano27671 2 years ago
EL G's fastest last 100m in a Championship race was in the Athens Olympics (13.3). Coe's 12.1 is the fastest last 100m in any Championship 1500m final EVER! It shows he could have run the last lap a second faster and the last 700m two seconds faster if needed.
deano27671 2 years ago
Not meaning to argue this again, but 1) if Coe was capable... why didn't he? There's a difference between theoretical capability and actually doing it. 2) El G ran the penultimate 100m in 12.7, with the last seven 100m splits getting faster, with him doing all the leading. Yes he slowed in the last 100 meters, but it's usually suicidal leading for over half the race. Just be fair comparing the two...
YiftertheShifter1 2 years ago
Yes, I am aware of EL G's splits and of course they are phenomenal. The fact that his last 100m was slower than the penultimate one was due to the fact that he had run his hardest, was flat out and couldn't run any faster in the last 100m. That was the way he (EL G) liked to race and that was his strength, a bit like how Cram used to run; although he left it til the last 300m/400m.
deano27671 2 years ago
The fact that Coe was able to run a 12.9 curve in Moscow followed by an even faster 12.1 in the straight (off a 1:46 800m pace) shows he had "unused" energy & could have run the last lap or 800 faster if necessary to win. It WASNT necessary, he just needed to follow Straub, who was doing the work for him. Coe, unlike EL G, also knew he had the best basic (400m) speed of anyone in the field, so as long as he was in the right place with 100m to go, his kick would get him past anyone, even Ovett.
deano27671 2 years ago
EL G had a good kick, but he could never guarantee it would out-kick everyone. Thats why he often used pacemakers to ensure the pace was so fast that evryone's kick would be rendered useless. As for your comment about "if he was capable, why didn't he?", I presume you're talking about running 3:28? Basically it comes down to opportunity & bad pacemaking. E.g in 81 Coe was taken through 400m in 51.5 (Coe 52.4) and 800m in 1:47.5! (1:49.1 Coe), then had to run the last 700m solo. He still ran 3:31
deano27671 2 years ago
He ran very few 1500m/Miles when he was at his peak between 79-84, and when he did go for a record he was given some dire pacing. He was certainly capable of sub 3:30 when he broke the record in 79, after laps of 54 & 59, then running alone. He asked for 3/4 in 2:48 in '81 but there was no one good enough to take him to that time; he went through in 2:51.9. Mel Watman said he would have run 3:28 in Zurich 80, but the second lap was too slow.
deano27671 2 years ago
In LA, he said he believed after 700m (1:43.6) he felt so easy he could have taken a long run for home and broken 3:30, but decided to sit & wait & use his kick. He still managed 3:32 and it was his 7th race in 9 days. Of course he missed out on the opportunity of more records when he was ill in 82/83. I'm not saying he would beat EL G every time, but he certainly would have been able to run much faster than he did given the efficient pacing EL G had.
deano27671 2 years ago
Just look at Coe's 1000m record, which was practically a solo run; why did EL G never have a crack at this? Coe was eventually given some decent pacemaking in 86 when he was 30 & past his best. Yet he managed to run 3:29despite stumbling on the last lap, which caused him to miss Aouita's WR by 0.31. He could have run at least a second faster earlier in his career. I've been down this road countless times before so if you want a more detailed explanation let me know & I'll contact you directly.
deano27671 2 years ago
Alright, I'm fine with that. Just don't speak so degradingly of other great athletes- that's all I want to say... by the way, what happened to Leothelion? Is his account closed, like Alan81?
YiftertheShifter1 2 years ago
I don't know about Leothelion, sorry!
I'm sorry if I offended you in some way. I wasn't trying to degrade EL G in my messages, rather I was responding to a question from another poster who asked whether Coe would have been able to live with EL G. I said that (in my opinion) of course he was. Having said that Coe wasn't able to run at his best as often as EL G ran at his.
deano27671 2 years ago
Perhaps the comment that "he would have outkicked him" was a bit misleading. Certainly at 3:28 pace both athlete's kicks would be pretty redundant. If the pace drifted to over 3:35, as it often does in championship races, then I think Coe's kick would be decisive more often. Having said that, if he wasn't on EL G's shoulder with a lap to go, then forget it,...Coe would be dead! Hope that clears things up.
deano27671 2 years ago
I have been following your comments. If all this is true - why did Coe, in a good year for him - 1985 - fare poorly when he faced cram over 1500 m when cram broke his WR. I think Coe ran 3.49 that day. Or was 85 really not such a good year for him? He also did badly in the stuttgart 1500m final despite having good legs that year - after all - he ran well in the 800 and ran 3.29 in Rieti - I assume that if cram had been on the track that day he would have run 3.29 dead.
LPCLASSICAL 2 years ago
Coe had ongoing injury problems in 85. He missed 3 weeks training in late June/early July due to calf problems & had only run 1 other serious 1500m before facing Cram in Oslo. 85 was meant to be a transition year to 5000m, but the calf injury, followed by a recurring back problem meant he was unable to put in "the solid spell of endurance work" necessary in early summer.
deano27671 2 years ago
Coe had ongoing injury problems in '85. He missed 3 weeks training in late June/early July & due to calf problems & had only run 1 other serious 1500m before facing Cram in Oslo. 85 was meant to be a transition year to 5000m, but the calf injury, followed by a recurring back problem meant he was unable to put in "the solid spell of endurance work" necessary in early summer.
deano27671 2 years ago
He had made clear his intent to have a "quiet" year early in 85, after all the stress involved in coming back from injury in early '84 and racing against time to be near peak form for the LA Olympics. He had nothing to prove over 1500m. When he was unable to run the 5000m he wanted to, he decided that he was better to stick with the 800/1500 at the following year's Euro Champs. Yes he was still good enough to run 3:32 and 1:43.07 in '85, but he was not in the form he had been in in '84 or 86
deano27671 2 years ago
When he ran 3:49 (equivalent to a 3:32 1500)behind Cram he covered the last lap just under 56 sec. In 84 he ran the last lap in his 3:32 Zurich win in 53.0. The reason he didn't win the 1500 in Stuttgart was that he ran a v bad tactical race, not because he wasn't good enough. Cram's last lap was 50.9, running it all in lane 1. Coe's was 51.0, having run the penultimate bend in lane 2 (3.6m further)& wide round some of the last bend. If he'd run just 400m(like Cram) it would have been 50.3.
deano27671 2 years ago
Coe tripped at the bell & run the last lap alone. If he hadn't he would probably have broken the WR. Coe didn't improve in '86, he was almost 30 & possibly past his best. The fact is he had been capable of running well below 3:30 since '79, but due to poor pacing, lack of races & injury/illness problems, he never got the chance to run to his potential. Anyone capable of kicking like he did at the end of his 3:47 WR, of running a solo 3:31 off 52.4 & 1:49.1 is capable of running at least 3:28.
deano27671 2 years ago
Seem to recall that coe very rarely ran at 1500 m even in his best years - he seemed to favour the mile - and even then just 2 or 3 in a season such as the legendary 81. Yes hapless pacemaking - I groaned when in brussels and zurich they were taking the 1st lap in about 57 and halhway at 1.53, leaving coe too much to do. He wanted 56s all the way and then a 54 last lap i believe.
LPCLASSICAL 2 years ago
Not quite. In Brussels the first lap was a little too quick (55.3 @ 440yds for Coe, = 55.0 for 400m) then the next lap was 58.0! That's very uneconomical. 1:53 at 880yds isn't too bad, but would have felt easier running 2 laps of 56.5. 3rd lap went 58.6 (far too slow) and then he said he waited until the last 100m (13.1) on the last lap before kicking, treating it as first and foremost a race. His last lap was 55.3, though he said had he really gone for it at the bell he would have run 3:46.5.
deano27671 2 years ago
That would have been a last 440 of 54.6 (54.3 for 400m). If you look at the stats of his 2 Mile records (9 days apart) he actually improved quite a bit. The first 3 laps in Zurich were a bit more even (56.2, 57.4, 58.1) & he was 0.2 faster at 3/4 than in Brussels. But his last lap in Brussels (holding something back) was 1.4 secs faster. Think that shows he just needed to run a few more fast races at the distance to run to his potential. He wanted to run 56, 1:52, & 2:48.
deano27671 2 years ago
The problems was that there was no one capable at that time of helping him get to 1200m in 2:48, unlike say EL G. If he'd had that pace and Ovett on his shoulder entering the last lap, he would have run under 3:45 IMHO.
As for the 1500m, he made only 1 attempt on the record in 81 and missed it by 0.6. The reason? The pace maker went through 400 in 51.5 (52.4 for Coe) 800 in 1:47.5 (1:49.1 Coe) then dropped out. Coe, not having been given any lap times, ran the last 700m alone & still run 3:31!
deano27671 2 years ago
The first lap was 3 secs faster than what he wanted to run (& was WR pace for 1000m!) and you can imagine the lactic acid build up after about 1000m. He practically run the entire race in a vacuum, and it had to be worth well under 3:30 (more like 3:28) if he'd had even pacing to 1200m.
deano27671 2 years ago
I often got the impression with Coe that he was not prepared to push himself to the limit, unlike say, Bannister, who collapsed over the line in his world record. Leaving your final kick to the last 100m of a wr attempt proves that. If you have enough left for a final sprint you haven't really expended your energy evenly in a way that makes a wr attempt truly successful. Cram had the right idea - long sustained kick from 400 m.
LPCLASSICAL 2 years ago
I think you're right, especially over 1500/mile. I don't think he ran enough of them in a season to get to know the right pace necessary for a WR. In Zurich he didn't go past Byers until about 1000m, when he should have gone past him at 800m, as he was already slowing. That cost him about a secnd. I think he also lacked a bit of confidence at that stage over 1500 & always wanted to leave something for the last 100 if needed. That was where he was supreme. Cram had to go with 400 to ensure a win.
deano27671 2 years ago
It's strange, because as shown in Moscow and with some of his WRs, I have no doubt that Coe was capable of doing a long sustained drive a la Cram from 400m out. Although he ran a v. fast last 100m, Cram was actually slowing down in the home straight, whereas Coe was getting faster and faster in the last 100m. As you say, that shows he hadn't expended all his energy.
deano27671 2 years ago
Strange that Coe treated Brussels firstly as a race - he knew that no one could touch him so only value would be a wr attempt. I also remember Coe saying about brussels beforehand that he wanted to run 3.30 1500 en-route to a 3.45 mile. How old were you in 81? I was 16 and recall most of this with clarity. But your info on splits and analysis is second to none. Where do you get your splits info? How do you know coe's 400 m/440 yds splits in a mile race?
LPCLASSICAL 2 years ago
I was 10. I remember watching it and reading all about it in the papers in the weeks before, during and after. I remember that he said he wanted to break the 1500m record en route and put the Mile record "out of sight" for a while. With the right pace and maybe another 1 or 2 attempts, I think he could have done. However, up until a few days before the Brussels race, Ovett was due to run. He only pulled out the week before to run a 1:47 800m in Norway!
deano27671 2 years ago
I think Coe had a lot of respect for his fellow Milers & knew from Zurich that there were a few capable of running under 3:50. If he'd been given the 2:48/9 at 3/4 as he'd wanted, you can bet Boit wouldn't have been on his shoulder and he'd probably have run all out on the last lap. As it was, the pace didn't go to plan and they went through 3/4 in 2:51.9.
deano27671 2 years ago
He'd been training with Boit all week in Switzerland and at this point he treated it as a race, as did Cram in Oslo 85. He didn't go for a WR on the last lap, he did what he needed to do to beat Coe. I get my splits from books I have (e.g The Coe & Ovett File from AW, IAAF Progression of WRs book, various others, AW and other mags, and having most of these races on dvd) and after years of looking at them, most I can remember. Thanks for the compliment & I hope this helps. :0)
deano27671 2 years ago
Yes well Coe and Ovett ducking each other was a major problem for the fans. They could have had some epic struggles - a bit like Ali/Frazier in boxing - plus tumbled many world records - particularly as coe may have thought it better to outrun rather than out-kick ovett. As it is all we have are a collection of disatisfactory races from 2 olympics.
LPCLASSICAL 2 years ago
I don't quite agree with you there. I don't think the Olympic races were disappointing, apart from Ovett wasn't able to perform to his best in LA. As for ducking each other, there were 2 occasions in 81 where they could have met; The Dream Mile, when Coe's request to run in that rather than the 1000 was turned down, & the Golden Mile, where Ovett pulled out the week before. They were also due to have that 3 race match in '82, which didn't materialise due to both having injury/health problems.
deano27671 2 years ago
Then in '83 Coe was ill. So I think it was a mixture of circumstances that prevented it happening after 81, though it looks like Ovett ducked Coe in 81. I think it may have detracted from the mystique and aura they created had they run against each other often, but I agree, had they met in good paced races the World record in the 15 and mile would have come down a lot. I also don't think Coe would feel the need to outrun Ovett in the last lap.
deano27671 2 years ago
Moscow proved that Coe was quicker over the last 200 in both races, and I would say 1980 was Ovett's best year. Coe improved more from 80 to 81. But I think if they both went with the pace, knowing Ovett was still with him, Coe would try harder and the record would be obliterated.
deano27671 2 years ago
So you clearly think ovett even at his peak could not beat coe in a fast race. But he overexpended himself in the moscow heats to protect his unbeaten record. I think the moscow 15 would have been very close if he had run wisely in those heats.
LPCLASSICAL 2 years ago
No I don't. Ovett ran 3:36.8 & 3:43.1 to qualify compared to Coe's 3:40.1 & 3:39.3, none of which should overextend them! Athletes of that calibre shouldn't have a problem running those times. Coe ran 3:35.8 the day before his LA win & it didn't effect him adversely. They were together entering the straight & Coe went away from him, clocking 12.1 in the final 100m. Ovett never ran as fast as that in any race. Coe should have won both; his last 400 in the 8, run in lane 2, was worth about 49.6.